subject:"RE\: \[Repeater\-Builder\] polyphaser Help"

Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-03 Thread Mark A. Holman







Forgiven !  and i am not a preist either 
:-) 

Paul Yonge wrote:

  Mark -
  
  
  My remark about Extra class was a poor attempt at humor.  One is
never too old for anything.  I was trying to say that others think I'm
classy enough.
  
  
  Paul Yonge, CBT
  (70-years-young in three weeks)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On Jan 1, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Mark A. Holman wrote:
  
   Where did you hear that stuff ?
I am a FCC Licensed Extra Class and 50 yrs old !
I am a Volunteer Examiner and I think our group is in the 50 Yr bracket
up to 60 ! we can qualify for the Old Boy Old Man Club, no young uns (
18-30 ) in our pool we have a Private Pilot, a few engineers, a IT
Student ( ME !! ) , and whatever else and 1 Female Extra .

Mark Holman AB8RU Extra Since 2003
Life Member ARRL, VE Assoc member SBE 
Student Member IEEE , Member AARP ( got yer discount card ? ) 
AAA Plus, formerally 3rd. Phone
CRO SBE Certified
webmaster http://www.ab8ru.org
webmaster http://www.harvestassemblyofgod.org
Life Commercial Radiotelephone Operator Permit 

And who says you can't do this ??


Paul Yonge wrote:

  On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:   You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).     

  
  

  Well, I just bought my GMRS license last month and I sit for my Tech  
license next week.  (That will have to do because people tell me I'm  
too old to have any Extra class help me out.)

You ham guys have a lot of fun, don't you?  I should have gotten my  
ticket years ago.

Paul
  

  
 
  



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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Paul Yonge



Mark -My remark about Extra class was a poor attempt at humor.  One is never too old for anything.  I was trying to say that others think I'm classy enough.Paul Yonge, CBT(70-years-young in three weeks)On Jan 1, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Mark A. Holman wrote: Where did you hear that stuff ? I am a FCC Licensed Extra Class and 50 yrs old ! I am a Volunteer Examiner and I think our group is in the 50 Yr bracket up to 60 ! we can qualify for the Old Boy Old Man Club, no young uns ( 18-30 ) in our pool we have a Private Pilot, a few engineers, a IT Student ( ME !! ) , and whatever else and 1 Female Extra .  Mark Holman AB8RU Extra Since 2003 Life Member ARRL, VE Assoc member SBE  Student Member IEEE , Member AARP ( got yer discount card ? )  AAA Plus, formerally 3rd. Phone CRO SBE Certified webmaster http://www.ab8ru.org webmaster http://www.harvestassemblyofgod.org Life Commercial Radiotelephone Operator Permit   And who says you can't do this ??   Paul Yonge wrote:   On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:   You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).     Well, I just bought my GMRS license last month and I sit for my Tech  
license next week.  (That will have to do because people tell me I'm  
too old to have any Extra class help me out.)

You ham guys have a lot of fun, don't you?  I should have gotten my  
ticket years ago.

Paul 













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Mark A. Holman







Where did you hear that stuff ?
I am a FCC Licensed Extra Class and 50 yrs old !
I am a Volunteer Examiner and I think our group is in the 50 Yr bracket
up to 60 ! we can qualify for the Old Boy Old Man Club, no young uns (
18-30 ) in our pool we have a Private Pilot, a few engineers, a IT
Student ( ME !! ) , and whatever else and 1 Female Extra .

Mark Holman AB8RU Extra Since 2003
Life Member ARRL, VE Assoc member SBE 
Student Member IEEE , Member AARP ( got yer discount card ? ) 
AAA Plus, formerally 3rd. Phone
CRO SBE Certified
webmaster http://www.ab8ru.org
webmaster http://www.harvestassemblyofgod.org
Life Commercial Radiotelephone Operator Permit 

And who says you can't do this ??


Paul Yonge wrote:

  On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

  
  
You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).

  
  


Well, I just bought my GMRS license last month and I sit for my Tech  
license next week.  (That will have to do because people tell me I'm  
too old to have any Extra class help me out.)

You ham guys have a lot of fun, don't you?  I should have gotten my  
ticket years ago.

Paul





 
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begin:vcard
fn:Mark A. Holman
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email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Webmaster, IT Student
note;quoted-printable:IT, Student Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO, ARRL=
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	Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A=
	
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Dick

Here's a wealth of links to lightning related stuff.

Dick

http://www.lightningtech.com/f_sets/links.html




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread kb9yku

i have not sayed any thing  yet
butt  i  think  seen  on polyphasers site saying that even with out a 
good  ground
  bound every thing  and  the votage  gos  up with out smoking any thing
that meens  ac  antenna lines phone lines the works  if no 
voltage  diff  no  smoked parts
and a  isolation and  nutal bonded wi  the  skack  ground  should 
keep the power supple from smoking
kb9yku


At 04:35 PM 1/1/2006, Ken Arck wrote:

>All this talk about polyphasers reminds me why I've never supplied my
>parrot with laser weaponry...
>
>Ken
>--
>President and CTO - Arcom Communications
>Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
>http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
>We offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
>We are now an authorized Telewave Dealer!
>AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
>http://www.irlp.net
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread mch

Probably just creates noise. I remember those were big about 30 years
ago.

Joe M.

JOHN MACKEY wrote:
> 
> I've often wondered if those that drag a ground strap off the bottom of their
> vehicle are really doing any good.  Opinions?
> 
> -- Original Message --
> Received: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:29:30 PM CST
> From: "Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
> 
> > A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
> > Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
> > since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.  Tires
> > have about 50 K ohms to ground, so a good solid
> > ground rod connected to the frame would help protect you.
> > The antenna will still be a target and your radio will still
> > probably suffer damage in a direct hit.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -
> > From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: 30 December, 2005 17:22
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Dick wrote:
> >
> > > Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> > > mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.
> >
> > We do have some great ones.  It's possible I might seek out a hilltop
> > location to stay out of the way of the incident and to ensure the
> > best coverage to other handhelds in the area.
> > (I have a bed in the back of the van so I can just crawl in and pull
> > the covers over my head in case a storm's in the area.  Maybe I
> > should pack a camcorder along to record the fireworks.)
> >
> > > All antennas are DC grounded to the fuselage.
> >
> > I wondered if I would be doing more harm than good with a separate
> > ground to the frame of the van.  I guess the idea is to avoid any
> > differences in the voltage potential between any of the system
> > components.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Dick

Not a bit of good at all.  In fact, in some conditions, the strap
will build up  static charge.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "JOHN MACKEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 01 January, 2006 13:30
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help


I've often wondered if those that drag a ground strap off the bottom of 
their
vehicle are really doing any good.  Opinions?

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:29:30 PM CST
From: "Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

> A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
> Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
> since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.  Tires
> have about 50 K ohms to ground, so a good solid
> ground rod connected to the frame would help protect you.
> The antenna will still be a target and your radio will still
> probably suffer damage in a direct hit.
>
> Dick
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: 30 December, 2005 17:22
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Dick wrote:
>
> > Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> > mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.
>
> We do have some great ones.  It's possible I might seek out a hilltop
> location to stay out of the way of the incident and to ensure the
> best coverage to other handhelds in the area.
> (I have a bed in the back of the van so I can just crawl in and pull
> the covers over my head in case a storm's in the area.  Maybe I
> should pack a camcorder along to record the fireworks.)
>
> > All antennas are DC grounded to the fuselage.
>
> I wondered if I would be doing more harm than good with a separate
> ground to the frame of the van.  I guess the idea is to avoid any
> differences in the voltage potential between any of the system
> components.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








Yahoo! Groups Links











 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Ken Arck

All this talk about polyphasers reminds me why I've never supplied my
parrot with laser weaponry...

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
We offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
We are now an authorized Telewave Dealer!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread JOHN MACKEY

I've often wondered if those that drag a ground strap off the bottom of their
vehicle are really doing any good.  Opinions?

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:29:30 PM CST
From: "Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

> A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
> Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
> since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.  Tires
> have about 50 K ohms to ground, so a good solid
> ground rod connected to the frame would help protect you.
> The antenna will still be a target and your radio will still
> probably suffer damage in a direct hit.
> 
> Dick
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: 30 December, 2005 17:22
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Dick wrote:
> 
> > Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> > mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.
> 
> We do have some great ones.  It's possible I might seek out a hilltop  
> location to stay out of the way of the incident and to ensure the  
> best coverage to other handhelds in the area.
> (I have a bed in the back of the van so I can just crawl in and pull  
> the covers over my head in case a storm's in the area.  Maybe I  
> should pack a camcorder along to record the fireworks.)
> 
> > All antennas are DC grounded to the fuselage.
> 
> I wondered if I would be doing more harm than good with a separate  
> ground to the frame of the van.  I guess the idea is to avoid any  
> differences in the voltage potential between any of the system  
> components.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Mark A. Holman

sounds like the same flaky contractor who did that to a Broadcast 
Station on AM a pro broadcast engineer who handles digging & laying pro. 
grounds for b-cast.

mark h.

mch wrote:

>I actually saw an install where a MSS did just that - they
>had the ground connected to a plastic water pipe!
>
>Joe M.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
MZ�





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2006-01-01 Thread Mark A. Holman

Polyphaser has a booklet on site ( if they still publish it free )
talks about proper grounding, we had a old saying in Electrical school
if in doubt ground it ! my ad on is ground every place from
transciever to the antenna . transciever, amplifier, filter, tuner,
lightning protection, tower, etc.. it makes saftey sense.

mark h. ab8ru

Chuck Kelsey wrote:

Don't waste your money on a PolyPhaser unless you can implement a good
ground system. And I'm not talking about a simple ground to an
electrical outlet. And a PolyPhaser on the antenna with none on the
power line makes the entire process worthless. ALL lines attaching to
the outside world need protective devices.

I'd suggest that you get a copy of PolyPhaser's grounding series that
explains all this in detail. I don't know where you might get a copy
other than a Google search.

Chuck
WB2EDV

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft) repeater setup. The prior
system had no lighting protection, just straight coax from antenna to
duplexer. I was looking into getting a polyphaser if needed but there
is no way to ground it that I can tell. Two options I have would be
to somehow tap into the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the
radio-end of the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground? A
grounding line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on another
businesses property. Any suggestions?

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-31 Thread mch

Well, that's one way to ensure a watertight seal. ;->

Joe M.

Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote:
> 
> > I actually saw an install where a MSS did just that - they
> > had the ground connected to a plastic water pipe!
> >
> > Joe M.
> 
> I've got a better one.  A number of years ago we changed out a 1500' run of
> 4" Heliax that had gone bad on an FM station.  Upon taking down the old line
> and looking at the damage, one of the problems we found was that the ground
> kits (approximately 8) were all installed without removing the outer jacket
> from the cable...
> 
> --- Jeff
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-31 Thread Jeff DePolo WN3A

> I actually saw an install where a MSS did just that - they
> had the ground connected to a plastic water pipe!
> 
> Joe M.

I've got a better one.  A number of years ago we changed out a 1500' run of
4" Heliax that had gone bad on an FM station.  Upon taking down the old line
and looking at the damage, one of the problems we found was that the ground
kits (approximately 8) were all installed without removing the outer jacket
from the cable...

--- Jeff





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-31 Thread Kevin Custer







Dick wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Kevin:
   
  The StaticBuster is similar to the little static discharge wicks
used on
  aircraft to dissipate the static charge built up during flight.
   
  They work.
   
  Dick


Hi Dick,

Yes they do.

The device is exactly the same as the wicks used on aircraft without
flight cert/auth. 

Kevin














  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-31 Thread Kevin Custer

Paul Yonge wrote:

>
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Kevin Custer wrote:
>
> 
>
> Solves more than lightning problems...
>
>
>
> Kevin -
>
> It sounds good.  I'll probably have two mirror-mounted antennas 
> because of the height of the Sprinter van - one on the GMRS simplex 
> repeater and one for a 2-meter transceiver (or, possibly, repeater).  
> For the price, it can't do any harm.
>
> Paul

Scott and I have used them on our mobile antennas with some success.  It 
reduces the corona and static when moving as the tires are conductive 
enough for it to work.

Kevin

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-31 Thread k1ike_mail

I hope they used conductive grease on the joint.;-)

 mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I actually saw an install where a MSS did just that - they
> had the ground connected to a plastic water pipe!
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Mike Morris

At 09:25 PM 12/30/05, you wrote:

(big chunk cut out)

>I've been to Florida and saw a relatives house under construction. Just 
>bond to the plastic cold water pipe! ;)
>
>Awaiting my lashings.
>
>Tom
>W9SRV

I would have taken several digital photos of the "ground" clamp, plus
shots of the signage for the tract, and one of the flag for the number
of the parcel ( in case the curbs aren't in yet, hence no street
addresses assigned).

Then I'd I printed the photos on a laserjet (cheap way to get 8x10
photos even if they are black and white), then go over to the local
city building permit office and talk to the inspection and code folks.
I'll bet that they'd be VERY interested in the photos

Just don't ask:
"How long as PVC been legal as potable water lines?"
and
"How many other homes built in this city since then are grounded
like this?"

Mike WA6ILQ

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread mch

I actually saw an install where a MSS did just that - they
had the ground connected to a plastic water pipe!

Joe M.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Tony VE6MVP

At 09:25 PM 2005-12-30 -0800, you wrote:

>I've been to Florida and saw a relatives house under construction. Just 
>bond to the plastic cold water pipe! ;)

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Even I, a newbie ham, know that's just plain wrong.  And whoever did that 
clearly should transfer to a job as a sanitation engineer, that is garbage 
picker upper.

Tony

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread TGundo 2003

I don't know when to give up. Your lightning deversion system can run straight back to your own grown rods, but your ground rods need to have a bonding conductor to the electrical system ground rod. The lower impeadence path is still to your rod, but the entire site ground potential is equal. I know around here you can be fined heavily if you don't do that. Stupid question: what about the ground on your power supply? Do you cut that pin off to seporate your gear from the electrical system ground? I didn't. If you have a seporate ground system and you still have a tie to the electrical ground you have two different potentials meeting at your gear. Besides the ovious dangers, you could have several volts difference being created on your ground potentially causing other fun problems. At my site, a water tower, I have the mast bonded to the steel structure of the tower (db-420 antenna),
a polyphaser that's grounded via its own ground wire back to the ground rod or the electrical sysstem, which is also bonded to the steel structure of the tower. I have Furman A/C surge protection on the equipment. Someone on the list that deals with big commerical sites (sears tower, etc) should let us know what is done there. I would like to hear about that having no experience with those. The 800 pound gorilla is the truth, and it will do what it wants when it wants to! I've been to Florida and saw a relatives house under construction. Just bond to the plastic cold water pipe! ;) Awaiting my lashings. Tom W9SRV Dick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Roger that, Mark.A
lightning diversion system needs its own low impedance path to groundbecause the huge currents involved can do strange and unpredictablethings if they get into the building's AC power.A full threat lightning attachment has millions of volts before the air pathionizes. Once the air path ionizes, its impedance is essentially zeroand the current during the flash can reach 250 K amps. On average, theAC component of the lightning flash is around 125 KHz. You really don'twant that kind of energy running around the buildings AC power wiringbecause there will be arcing nasties along with induced currents that can,and probably will, fry stuff like computers, TV's, etc.After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection formilitary aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the stuff.You can sit there and calculate impedances, etc., until the cows come home,but when lightning hits, it's still not all that
predictable.Use a DC grounded antenna and a dedicated path to a dedicated ground rodto divert as much lightning energy as possible away from the building'sAC power system. Also, use the available braided lightning diversion cablefrom the lightning rod (in this case, your DC grounded antenna). ThePolyphaser (R) will help, but a direct lightning attachment to your antennawill most likely destroy it. But, IMHO, it's better to sacrifice the antennathan the repeater and associated electronics.Lightning is like the 800-pound gorilla. It goes wherever it doggone well pleases.Dick- Original Message - From: "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 30 December, 2005 15:53Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser HelpI think what Dick was getting at is that the Polyphaser grounding lug needsto have its *own* ground - separate from any other ground. If you tie
thePolyphaser to the electrical ground of the building, you're defeating theentire purpose of having it. But then again, I've been wrong before.Mark - N9WYSFrom: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:35 PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser HelpSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, but putting in your own ground rods and NOTtying them to the existing electrical ground system is a Bigger no-no. Thatwould be creating a second ground system for the building and creating apotenital difference in grounds. That would be a bigger problem, and thelocal codes here require a bonding conductor of some sort. You can put inyour own rods, which I agree with, but you must tie the two systems togetherand make it all one ground potential. It's
all about equal potential, isn'tit? If you don't get hit at all you don't have to worry about the voltages!How about the install on a all-steel mushroom type water tower? At thebottom the 1" threaded rods go in the ground and they are every foot aroundthe perimeter. Makes a great ground plane for a DB-420!Someone please tell the cable guys to stop putting in the 4ft rods andcreating ground loops! ;)TomW9SRVDick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Whatever you do, DON'T connect the polyphaser grounding lug to an AC outletground lug!!! That would bring HUGE voltages and currents into the buildingelectric power system and expose everything on it to disaster!!! In whichcase you'd do well to carry enoug

RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help OT aircraft protection

2005-12-30 Thread kf0m

minor point of clarification.  The DO160 document referred to is published
by RTCA and not the FAA.  The latest version is DO160E released about a year
ago.  It is an environmental test procedures document that covers much more
than just lightning.  Section 20 covers indirect effects of lightning
(effects of lightning currents induced into aircraft wiring)  section 22
covers direct effects of lightning (damage to aircraft structure or anything
like antennas or probes that protrude from the skin.


The FAA does publish an advisory circular AC 20-136 "Protection of Aircraft
Electrical/Electronic Systems against the Indirect Effects of Lightning"  It
was published in 1990 and is somewhat out of date.

An interesting twist, one of the simulated lightning tests is called a
multi-burst test.  The test equipment generators commonly used for this test
look  very similar to early spark gap transmitters.

John Lock KF0M
Wichita KS
 kf0m at arrl dot net

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:43 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
>
>
> Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.
>
> As for protecting aircraft, first you spec out all avionics to survive a
> brief
> 500 V blast on any wiring that goes outside the fuselage
> (typically antenna
> cables).  Then you make sure that all metal joints and faying
> surfaces have
> a DC resistance not more than .0025 ohms.  Via Ohm's Law, you'll see
> that 250 K amps and .0025 ohms comes out to 500 V.  Also, all avionics
> boxes will have dedicated bonding straps to the airframe.  Other
> considerations
> get right down into the design of the avionics boxes.  All antennas are DC
> grounded to the fuselage.
>
> Last, but certainly not least, you talk with the folks who write the
> aircraft
> operating manuals and put in an instruction that tells the crew
> not to fly
> into
> thunderstorms and to avoid flight in areas likely to produce lightning.
> Then
> you hope and pray that, during their flight training, they were
> taught how
> to
> spot weather conditions likely to spawn lightning.  I was.  My instructors
> drilled that weather info into my feeble brain until I could recite in my
> sleep
> and spot a potential lightning strike area and avoid it.
>
> You can get a pretty good idea of this stuff in an FAA publication.
> It has the exciting title DO-160-?  The ? is for whatever the
> latest version
> is.
>
> Happy New Year,
>
> Dick
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: 30 December, 2005 16:23
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:
>
> > After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
> > military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the
> > stuff.
>
> Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?
>
> I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile
> repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?
>
>
> Paul Yonge
> WQDY219
> MIDLAKES REPEATER
> Syracuse, New York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Ted Leonard

Chuck Kelsey wrote:

>You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>Dick wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Is it legal to keep Faradays in a cage?  lol
>>
>>Dick
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>> 
>>
>>
>>----------------
>>
>>Subject:
>>Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
>>From:
>>"Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To:
>>
>>
>>To:
>>
>>
>>
>>On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Dick wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
>>>Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
>>>since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>What a great line!   "Hey -- want to go for a ride in my Faraday cage?"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>
And when you do let it out it will probably bite you.






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge


On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:50 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).



Well, I just bought my GMRS license last month and I sit for my Tech  
license next week.  (That will have to do because people tell me I'm  
too old to have any Extra class help me out.)

You ham guys have a lot of fun, don't you?  I should have gotten my  
ticket years ago.

Paul





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Chuck Kelsey

You need a license from the Faraday Cage Commission (FCC).

Chuck



Dick wrote:

>Is it legal to keep Faradays in a cage?  lol
>
>Dick
>
>- Original Message - 
>  
>
>
> --------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
> From:
> "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> 
>
> To:
> 
>
>
>On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Dick wrote:
>
>  
>
>>A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
>>Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
>>since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.
>>
>>
>
>
>What a great line!   "Hey -- want to go for a ride in my Faraday cage?"
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge

On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:39 PM, Dick wrote:

> Is it legal to keep Faradays in a cage?  lol
>
> Dick

Only during a blockbuster Upstate New York lightning storm.  The rest  
of the time, I let it ride up front.

Paul

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick

Is it legal to keep Faradays in a cage?  lol

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 30 December, 2005 17:37
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help



On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Dick wrote:

> A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
> Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
> since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.


What a great line!   "Hey -- want to go for a ride in my Faraday cage?"




 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge

On Dec 30, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Dick wrote:

> A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
> Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
> since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.

What a great line!   "Hey -- want to go for a ride in my Faraday cage?"

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge



On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Kevin Custer wrote:Solves more than lightning problems...Kevin -It sounds good.  I'll probably have two mirror-mounted antennas because of the height of the Sprinter van - one on the GMRS simplex repeater and one for a 2-meter transceiver (or, possibly, repeater).  For the price, it can't do any harm.Paul 













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick

A good ground rod to the frame would help a lot.
Generally, you're safe in your car during a lightning hit,
since you're surrounded by a Faraday cage.  Tires
have about 50 K ohms to ground, so a good solid
ground rod connected to the frame would help protect you.
The antenna will still be a target and your radio will still
probably suffer damage in a direct hit.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 30 December, 2005 17:22
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Dick wrote:

> Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.

We do have some great ones.  It's possible I might seek out a hilltop  
location to stay out of the way of the incident and to ensure the  
best coverage to other handhelds in the area.
(I have a bed in the back of the van so I can just crawl in and pull  
the covers over my head in case a storm's in the area.  Maybe I  
should pack a camcorder along to record the fireworks.)

> All antennas are DC grounded to the fuselage.

I wondered if I would be doing more harm than good with a separate  
ground to the frame of the van.  I guess the idea is to avoid any  
differences in the voltage potential between any of the system  
components.

Paul

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge

On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Dick wrote:

> Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
> mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.

We do have some great ones.  It's possible I might seek out a hilltop  
location to stay out of the way of the incident and to ensure the  
best coverage to other handhelds in the area.
(I have a bed in the back of the van so I can just crawl in and pull  
the covers over my head in case a storm's in the area.  Maybe I  
should pack a camcorder along to record the fireworks.)

> All antennas are DC grounded to the fuselage.

I wondered if I would be doing more harm than good with a separate  
ground to the frame of the van.  I guess the idea is to avoid any  
differences in the voltage potential between any of the system  
components.

Paul

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick

Right, Joe:

Typically, an airplane in flight gets hit when it flies thru an area where a
lightning static charge is building up.  The airplane can provide just
enough conductivity to allow the path to ionize.  That's when the
lightning happens and it goes thru the airplane skin

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 30 December, 2005 16:42
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

Since there is no real path to ground, lightning is not attracted to
aircraft, and what little attraction there is would be carried on the
skin of the craft. There is little risk to the interior.

Joe M.

Paul Yonge wrote:
>
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:
>
> > After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
> > military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the
> > stuff.
>
> Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?
>
> I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile
> repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?
>
> Paul Yonge
> WQDY219
> MIDLAKES REPEATER
> Syracuse, New York
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread mch

Since there is no real path to ground, lightning is not attracted to
aircraft, and what little attraction there is would be carried on the
skin of the craft. There is little risk to the interior.

Joe M.

Paul Yonge wrote:
> 
> On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:
> 
> > After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
> > military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the
> > stuff.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?
> 
> I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile
> repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?
> 
> Paul Yonge
> WQDY219
> MIDLAKES REPEATER
> Syracuse, New York
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick






Kevin:
 
The StaticBuster is similar to the little static discharge wicks used 
on
aircraft to dissipate the static charge built up during flight.
 
They work.
 
Dick
 
- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Custer 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: 30 December, 2005 16:29
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
Paul Yonge wrote: 
On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:
  
  Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?

I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile  
repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?Solves 
more than lightning problems...Kevin













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick

Paul, I wouldn't worry unless you plan to operate your van on a
mountain top in one of those impressive upstate NY lightning storms.

As for protecting aircraft, first you spec out all avionics to survive a 
brief
500 V blast on any wiring that goes outside the fuselage (typically antenna
cables).  Then you make sure that all metal joints and faying surfaces have
a DC resistance not more than .0025 ohms.  Via Ohm's Law, you'll see
that 250 K amps and .0025 ohms comes out to 500 V.  Also, all avionics
boxes will have dedicated bonding straps to the airframe.  Other 
considerations
get right down into the design of the avionics boxes.  All antennas are DC
grounded to the fuselage.

Last, but certainly not least, you talk with the folks who write the 
aircraft
operating manuals and put in an instruction that tells the crew not to fly 
into
thunderstorms and to avoid flight in areas likely to produce lightning. 
Then
you hope and pray that, during their flight training, they were taught how 
to
spot weather conditions likely to spawn lightning.  I was.  My instructors
drilled that weather info into my feeble brain until I could recite in my 
sleep
and spot a potential lightning strike area and avoid it.

You can get a pretty good idea of this stuff in an FAA publication.
It has the exciting title DO-160-?  The ? is for whatever the latest version 
is.

Happy New Year,

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Yonge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 30 December, 2005 16:23
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:

> After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
> military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the
> stuff.

Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?

I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile
repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?

Paul Yonge
WQDY219
MIDLAKES REPEATER
Syracuse, New York 

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Kevin Custer







Paul Yonge wrote:

  On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:
  
  
Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?

I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile  
repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?
  




Solves more than lightning problems...

Kevin














  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Paul Yonge

On Dec 30, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dick wrote:

> After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
> military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the  
> stuff.

Out of curiosity, how does one design lightning protection for aircraft?

I've avoided worrying about lightning protection for the mobile  
repeater van I'm putting together.  Should I be worrying?

Paul Yonge
WQDY219
MIDLAKES REPEATER
Syracuse, New York

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick

Roger that, Mark.

A lightning diversion system needs its own low impedance path to ground
because the huge currents involved can do strange and unpredictable
things if they get into the building's  AC power.

A full threat lightning attachment has millions of volts before the air path
ionizes.  Once the air path ionizes, its impedance is essentially zero
and the current during the flash can reach 250 K amps.  On average, the
AC component of the lightning flash is around 125 KHz.  You really don't
want that kind of energy running around the buildings AC power wiring
because there will be arcing nasties along with induced currents that can,
and probably will, fry stuff like computers, TV's, etc.

After a lot of years at Lockheed designing lightning protection for
military aircraft, I've developed a very healthy respect for the stuff.
You can sit there and calculate impedances, etc., until the cows come home,
but when lightning hits, it's still not all that predictable.

Use a DC grounded antenna and a dedicated path to a dedicated ground rod
to divert as much lightning energy as possible away from the building's
AC power system.  Also, use the available braided lightning diversion cable
from the lightning rod (in this case, your DC grounded antenna).  The
Polyphaser (R) will help, but a direct lightning attachment to your antenna
will most likely destroy it.  But, IMHO, it's better to sacrifice the 
antenna
than the repeater and associated electronics.

Lightning is like the 800-pound gorilla.  It goes wherever it doggone well 
pleases.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 30 December, 2005 15:53
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help


I think what Dick was getting at is that the Polyphaser grounding lug needs
to have its *own* ground - separate from any other ground.  If you tie the
Polyphaser to the electrical ground of the building, you're defeating the
entire purpose of having it.  But then again, I've been wrong before.


Mark - N9WYS


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:35 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but putting in your own ground rods and NOT
tying them to the existing electrical ground system is a Bigger no-no. That
would be creating a second ground system for the building and creating a
potenital difference in grounds. That would be a bigger problem, and the
local codes here require a bonding conductor of some sort. You can put in
your own rods, which I agree with, but you must tie the two systems together
and make it all one ground potential. It's all about equal potential, isn't
it? If you don't get hit at all you don't have to worry about the voltages!

How about the install on a all-steel mushroom type water tower? At the
bottom the 1" threaded rods go in the ground and they are every foot around
the perimeter. Makes a great ground plane for a DB-420!

Someone please tell the cable guys to stop putting in the 4ft rods and
creating ground loops! ;)

Tom
W9SRV

Dick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Whatever you do, DON'T connect the polyphaser grounding lug to an AC outlet
ground lug!!! That would bring HUGE voltages and currents into the building
electric power system and expose everything on it to disaster!!! In which
case you'd do well to carry enough insurance to replace all of the electric
and electronic gear in the building.

If you plan to connect it to the metal roof, make sure the metal roofing is
securely grounded via an 8-foot ground rod in the earth near the building.
In fact, there should be several such ground rods for a metal roof.

The average frequency of a lightning discharge is around 125 KHz, so you can
use that to calculate lightning rod cable lengths, etc.

You might do well to contact the other tenants in the building and see how
they feel about installing a proper lightning diversion system, including a
proper lightning rod and cable.

Happy New Year,
Dick







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RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread N9WYS

I think what Dick was getting at is that the Polyphaser grounding lug needs
to have its *own* ground  separate from any other ground.  If you tie the
Polyphaser to the electrical ground of the building, youre defeating the
entire purpose of having it  But then again, Ive been wrong before.


Mark  N9WYS


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:35 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but putting in your own ground rods and NOT
tying them to the existing electrical ground system is a Bigger no-no. That
would be creating a second ground system for the building and creating a
potenital difference in grounds. That would be a bigger problem, and the
local codes here require a bonding conductor of some sort. You can put in
your own rods, which I agree with, but you must tie the two systems together
and make it all one ground potential. It's all about equal potential, isn't
it? If you don't get hit at all you don't have to worry about the voltages!
 
How about the install on a all-steel mushroom type water tower? At the
bottom the 1" threaded rods go in the ground and they are every foot around
the perimeter. Makes a great ground plane for a DB-420!
 
Someone please tell the cable guys to stop putting in the 4ft rods and
creating ground loops! ;)
 
Tom
W9SRV

Dick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Whatever you do, DON'T connect the polyphaser grounding lug to an AC outlet
ground lug!!!  That would bring HUGE voltages and currents into the building
electric power system and expose everything on it to disaster!!!  In which
case you'd do well to carry enough insurance to replace all of the electric
and electronic gear in the building.
 
If you plan to connect it to the metal roof, make sure the metal roofing is
securely grounded via an 8-foot ground rod in the earth near the building. 
In fact, there should be several such ground rods for a metal roof.
 
The average frequency of a lightning discharge is around 125 KHz, so you can
use that to calculate lightning rod cable lengths, etc.
 
You might do well to contact the other tenants in the building and see how
they feel about installing a proper lightning diversion system, including a
proper lightning rod and cable.
 
Happy New Year,
Dick






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread TGundo 2003

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but putting in your own ground rods and NOT tying them to the existing electrical ground system is a Bigger no-no. That would be creating a second ground system for the building and creating a potenital difference in grounds. That would be a bigger problem, and the local codes here require a bonding conductor of some sort. You can put in your own rods, which I agree with, but you must tie the two systems together and make it all one ground potential. It's all about equal potential, isn't it? If you don't get hit at all you don't have to worry about the voltages! How about the install on a all-steel mushroom type water tower? At the bottom the 1" threaded rods go in the ground and they are every foot around the perimeter. Makes a great ground plane for a DB-420! Someone please tell the cable guys to stop putting in the 4ft rods and creating ground loops! ;)
Tom W9SRVDick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Whatever you do, DON'T connect the polyphaser grounding lug to an AC outlet ground lug!!! That would bring HUGE voltages and currents into the building electric power system and expose everything on it to disaster!!! In which case you'd do well to carry enough insurance to replace all of the electric and electronic gear in the building. If you plan to connect it to the metal roof, make sure the metal roofing is securely grounded via an 8-foot ground rod in the earth near the building. In fact, there should be several such ground rods for a metal roof. The average frequency of a lightning discharge is around 125 KHz, so you can use that to calculate lightning rod cable lengths, etc. You might do well to contact the other tenants in the building and see how they feel about installing a proper lightning diversion system, including a proper lightning rod
and cable. Happy New Year, Dick - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 30 December, 2005 11:22 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft) repeater setup. The prior system had no lighting protection, just straight coax from antenna to duplexer. I was looking into getting a polyphaser if needed but there is no way to ground it that I can tell. Two options I have would be to somehow tap into the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the radio-end of the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground? A grounding line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on another businesses property. Any suggestions?
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Dick






Whatever you do, DON'T connect the 
polyphaser grounding lug to an AC outlet
ground lug!!!  That would bring 
HUGE voltages and currents into the building
electric power system and expose 
everything on it to disaster!!!  In which case
you'd do well to carry enough insurance 
to replace all of the electric and electronic
gear in the building.
 
If you plan to connect it to the metal 
roof, make sure the metal roofing is securely
grounded via an 8-foot ground rod in 
the earth near the building.  In fact, there
should be several such ground rods for 
a metal roof.
 
The average frequency of a lightning 
discharge is around 125 KHz, so you can use
that to calculate lightning rod cable 
lengths, etc.
 
You might do well to contact the other 
tenants in the building and see how they feel about
installing a proper lightning diversion 
system, including a proper lightning rod and
cable.
 
Happy New Year,
Dick
 
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: 30 December, 2005 11:22
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft)  repeater setup.  The 
prior system had no lighting protection, just straight coax from antenna to 
duplexer.  I was looking into getting a polyphaser if needed but there is 
no way to ground it that I can tell.  Two options I have would be to 
somehow tap into the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the radio-end of 
the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground?  A grounding 
line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on another businesses 
property.  Any suggestions?













  




  
  
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   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Jeff DePolo


If the building has a steel infrastructure, your lowest-R and lowest-L path
will likely be to tie to the building steel.  However, there are code
implications for doing so (as well as any other tower grounding) so be sure
to check local codes and/or NEC.  If building steel isn't an option you may
have to run the ground wire all the way down the side of the building to a
ground rod (electrode).  Again, see NEC.

The AC ground on the recepticle is not a good idea in any case. 

--- Jeff


> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:23 PM
> To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help
> 
> Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft)  repeater setup.  The 
> prior system had no lighting protection, just straight coax 
> from antenna to duplexer.  I was looking into getting a 
> polyphaser if needed but there is no way to ground it that I 
> can tell.  Two options I have would be to somehow tap into 
> the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the radio-end of 
> the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground?  A 
> grounding line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on 
> another businesses property.  Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
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>   
> *  Visit your group "Repeater-Builder 
>  " on the web.
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> *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Eric Lemmon






If your antenna is metal 
and of DC-grounded design, as most commercial antennas are, then the base of the 
antenna should definitely be connected to the nearest structural metal- be it 
the roof, the coping, an I-beam, or whatever.  This conductor should be 
very heavy-gauge copper wire, #2 or larger, and it should be dressed in as 
straight a line as possible, with very gradual bends.  The terminals should 
be copper or bronze, with stainless steel or bronze hardware.
 
The radio equipment 
should be enclosed in a metal cabinet, and the antenna feedline should enter 
this cabinet through a high-quality gas-tube surge arrestor such as those made 
by Huber+Suhner.  They are expensive, but far better than those made by 
PolyPhaser, IMO.  The cabinet should be solidly grounded to the nearest 
structural steel.  The AC power feed should also enter the cabinet through 
a commercial surge arrestor.  Don't expect the ground wire in a nearby AC 
receptacle to handle your lightning protection grounding.  Any phone or 
control wires entering the cabinet should be protected by gas-tube 
arrestors.  The key point is to ensure that any conductors entering the 
cabinet must have a gas-tube arrestor that is selected based upon the frequency, 
voltage, and power levels expected.  I use Huber+Suhner devices because the 
gas elements are made in many different ratings, are easily replaced in the 
field, and the housings are of stainless-steel construction.
 
73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY 


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:23 
AMTo: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: 
[Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft)  repeater setup.  The 
prior system had no lighting protection, just straight coax from antenna to 
duplexer.  I was looking into getting a polyphaser if needed but there is 
no way to ground it that I can tell.  Two options I have would be to 
somehow tap into the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the radio-end of 
the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground?  A grounding 
line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on another businesses 
property.  Any suggestions?













  




  
  
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   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] polyphaser Help

2005-12-30 Thread Chuck Kelsey

Don't waste your money on a PolyPhaser unless you can implement a good 
ground system. And I'm not talking about a simple ground to an 
electrical outlet. And a PolyPhaser on the antenna with none on the 
power line makes the entire process worthless. ALL lines attaching to 
the outside world need protective devices.

I'd suggest that you get a copy of PolyPhaser's grounding series that 
explains all this in detail. I don't know where you might get a copy 
other than a Google search.

Chuck
WB2EDV

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Replacing a small, rooftop (about 90ft)  repeater setup.  The prior 
> system had no lighting protection, just straight coax from antenna to 
> duplexer.  I was looking into getting a polyphaser if needed but there 
> is no way to ground it that I can tell.  Two options I have would be 
> to somehow tap into the metal roof and connect it to that? or at the 
> radio-end of the coax attach it to a nearby AC outlet's ground?  A 
> grounding line/rods aren't a real good option since it is on another 
> businesses property.  Any suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> *  Visit your group "Repeater-Builder
>   " on the web.
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>   Service .
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>

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