[sage-devel] Fnc returns 0 int

2013-05-20 Thread manday
A function

def foo( ):
return 0

evaluates type( foo( ) ) to

type 'sage.rings.integer.Integer'

But then I put this function into bar.py like so

bar.py:
from sage.all import *
def foo( ):
return 0

and

import bar
type( bar.foo( ) )

returns

type 'int'

Needless to say, this causes a bunch of new errors if my code assumes
that I get a sage type (I came across this because I did something like
real( ) on the result).

Is this expected behaviour?

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Fnc returns 0 int

2013-05-20 Thread manday
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 07:38:10PM +0800, P Purkayastha wrote:
 On 05/20/2013 07:08 PM, man...@gmx.net wrote:
  A function
 
  def foo( ):
  return 0
 
  evaluates type( foo( ) ) to
 
  type 'sage.rings.integer.Integer'
 
  But then I put this function into bar.py like so
 
  bar.py:
  from sage.all import *
  def foo( ):
  return 0
 
  and
 
  import bar
  type( bar.foo( ) )
 
  returns
 
  type 'int'
 
  Needless to say, this causes a bunch of new errors if my code assumes
  that I get a sage type (I came across this because I did something like
  real( ) on the result).
 
  Is this expected behaviour?
 
 
 How did you run bar.py? Rename it to bar.sage and then run it as
 
 $ sage bar.sage

I did not run bar.py at all. As I described above I execute

---
import bar
type( bar.foo( ) )
---

from within SAGE (specifically, from within the Notebook)

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Fnc returns 0 int

2013-05-20 Thread manday
Hi, I suspected it would have something to do with the interpreter.
Thanks for the explanation!

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:02:43PM +, Simon King wrote:
 Hi!
 
 On 2013-05-20, man...@gmx.net man...@gmx.net wrote:
  import bar
  type( bar.foo( ) )
 
  returns
 
 type 'int'
 
  Needless to say, this causes a bunch of new errors if my code assumes
  that I get a sage type (I came across this because I did something like
  real( ) on the result).
 
  Is this expected behaviour?
 
 Yes. If you import a Python module, then it is the expected behaviour
 that you get a Python int and not a Sage Integer.
 
 In interactive sessions (command line or notebook) and when you attach a
 .sage-file, then a preparser comes into play. For example:
   sage: preparse('1')
   'Integer(1)'
   sage: preparse('f(x) = x^2')
   '__tmp__=var(x); f = symbolic_expression(x**Integer(2)).function(x)'
   sage: preparse('R.x,y = QQ[]')
   R = QQ['x, y']; (x, y,) = R._first_ngens(2)
 
 So, typing 1 in an interactive session results in a Sage Integer
 *only* because the preparser makes it so. Similarly, the preparser makes
 it possible to define a symbolic function or a polynomial ring in a nice
 syntax.
 
 But when you write a Python module then there is no preparser. Hence,
 you need to adhere to Python syntax.
 
 Best regards,
 Simon

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: SQRT of negative number is negative? Or positive? Or what?

2013-05-15 Thread manday
I think you shouldn't blame it all on the user. I understand and
appreciate that Sage makes a clear distinction between different types
and handles them differently. But that doesn't explain the numerous
errors which are caused by SAGE's funtions which should work with a
specific type, but simply refuse to.

Here is another instance: http://alpha.sagenb.org/home/pub/701/

It does not work because abs( ) returns an Expression which
will cause find_local_minimum to cause errors.

This is one instance of dozens I've encountered. Other examples include
functions returning floats while yet others cause errors when called
with floats instead of Reals, etc...

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 05:22:07PM -0700, rjf wrote:
On Monday, May 13, 2013 2:11:59 PM UTC-7, ManDay wrote:
 
  Could anyone shed a bit of light on this?
 
  The more I try, the more SAGE's types get in my way.
 
It is pretty much understood by some people in the computer algebra
system-building community
that types or categories or similar concepts imposed on users who
understand some mathematics (but maybe not much modern algebra)
 and not much about programming language design and numerical computation,
will fall into holes.
 
See what happened to Scratchpad / Axiom. It tries and maybe does as
good a job as we know how to do, but users don't go for it.
 
It is not too surprising to find people falling into holes in the Sage
type system.
 
Sorry, no easy solution to everything along these lines has emerged.  So
far
as I can tell, Python offers no step forward, and maybe a step backward.
 
RJF
 
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 References
 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: SQRT of negative number is negative? Or positive? Or what?

2013-05-14 Thread manday
Thank you John and the others, too. That clarifies it. I never used
complex numbers in C (personally, I consider them, just like wchars, out
of place but that's another subject...), if I had, I'd likely have
known.

It's not apparently clear how to solve this problem consistently (I'm
just performing a handbook Gauss-Jacobi Quadrature for a complex
Schwarz-Christoffel Integral in my code and wouldn't really know where
to deviate from the straight-forward implementation by which pow(
-m,alpha ) arises) but I'll hopefully figure out


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 02:56:28PM -0700, John H Palmieri wrote:
On Monday, May 13, 2013 2:11:59 PM UTC-7, ManDay wrote:
 
  Could anyone shed a bit of light on this?
 
  The more I try, the more SAGE's types get in my way. It turns out to be
  an unpredictable element. Unless I make sure *every* involved function
  really returns one specific type, calculations are becoming practically
  impossible, because the results are completely random (malfunctions).
 
  Here is just the last and most annoying of my encounters I can't make
  heads or tails of, enjoy:
 
  [1]http://alpha.sagenb.org/home/pub/701/
 
The issue is, if you define a number a by
 
   sage: a = -CDF(2.4995)
 
then the imaginary part of a is -0.0, and it is treated as negative.
When a**(1/2) is computed, it is computed (according to the documentation)
as exp(log(a)*(1/2)), and since the imaginary part of a is negative, its
log has imaginary part approximately equal to -pi. This choice of branch
cut is documented: type log? On the other hand:
 
   sage: b = CDF(-2.4995)
 
Then b has imaginary part which is 0.0, treated as positive, so log(b) has
imaginary part approximately equal to +pi.
 
Maybe sqrt(a) would give you more consistent results.
 
   sage: sqrt(a)
   1.58098070829*I
   sage: sqrt(b)
   1.58098070829*I
 
--
John
 
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Re: [sage-devel] Backspace Key in Notebook

2013-05-14 Thread manday
Could anyone have a look at this? Needless to say, this is *extremely*
annoying. Every few minutes the notebook gets completely messed up with
this bug.

I can forgo the Backspace Key, but I need to press Enter, and that just
breaks in the middle of a block then and I'm left with a complete d
up worksheet. Perhaps the feature by which Ctrl-Enter causes a cell to
break could be removed, for the time being?

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 04:03:54PM +0200, man...@gmx.net wrote:
 On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 05:56:03AM -0700, William Stein wrote:
  On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:04 AM,  man...@gmx.net wrote:
   It might be related. I'm confident this happend while the cursor was at
   the end of a line, though.
  
   Also, I don't think this could explain the Enter-breaks-cell part, could
   it?
  
   If what you say is true and a non-empty (!) cell is joined with the
   preceeding one when Backspace is pressed on the first line, I think this
   should be changed. It's too easy to cause this behaviour by accident.
  
   Anyway, I'm not aware of any such behaviour. I know that only from empty
   cells, which is not related to the subject, however.
  
  That behavior is supposed to be what happens when you press
  control-enter and control-backspace.  Any chance there's something
  going on involving the control key?
 
 Yes, I know. No. I'm absolutely certain there is no control key
 involved. If it helps, I have got the impression that it happens when I
 place the cursor at the end of a line and do NOT type or move the cursor
 before I press backspace. It's, however, only my impression and I can
 not claim with certainty that it wouldn't happen under different
 circumstances, either.
 
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[sage-devel] SQRT of negative number is negative? Or positive? Or what?

2013-05-13 Thread manday
Could anyone shed a bit of light on this?

The more I try, the more SAGE's types get in my way. It turns out to be
an unpredictable element. Unless I make sure *every* involved function
really returns one specific type, calculations are becoming practically
impossible, because the results are completely random (malfunctions).

Here is just the last and most annoying of my encounters I can't make
heads or tails of, enjoy:

http://alpha.sagenb.org/home/pub/701/

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[sage-devel] All variables vanish

2013-05-12 Thread manday
Please have a look at this, is there any reasonable explanation for the
output of the few last cells?

http://alpha.sagenb.org/home/pub/700/

This happens reproducibly. plot( ) evaluates to nothing (no output, etc)
and afterwards, the workspace seems to be emptied of everything that was
defined.

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[sage-devel] Functions returning float

2013-05-12 Thread manday
I think there is a conceptual problem with function returning floats.

Consider the following:

def find_roots( func,l,r ):
tol = 1e-10
try:
result = find_root( func,l,r ) )
except RuntimeError:
return []
return find_roots( func,l,result-tol )+[ result ]+find_roots( 
func,result+tol,r )

Ignoring, for the moment, that find_root returns a float, too (and
therefore is a problem by itsself).

If func is a function which does not automatically evaluate to a
number (where only evalf_func evaluates), we need to write

[...] find_root( lambda x: func.n( x ),l,r )

instead, because otherwise find_root crashes. But then, this doesn't
work if func returns a float, because float has no .n( ).

So what's the solution to this dilemma? I think this is only permanently
solved by making sure functions generally return a Sage-type

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[sage-devel] Negative Number cannot be raised to fractional power

2013-05-11 Thread manday
I repeatedly run into problems where Sage claims it's not able to
evaluate a function. Often, this happens due to a

ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

which bubbles up from somewhere deep in the call stack. Here is one of
those cases

summand = summand*( m*( y_i-( nonpole[ _sage_const_0  ]-y_0 )/m ) )**nonpole[ 
_sage_const_1  ]

ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

Here is the complete code, which is a bit lengthy, though:

http://alpha.sagenb.org/home/pub/698/

Could anyone clarify what exactly causes Sage to throw that error? I
guess it has to do with the fields of the involved operands, however, I
cannot reproduce the problem if I do something as simple as

( (-3)**(1/4) ).n( )

Thanks in advance

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[sage-devel] Backspace Key in Notebook

2013-05-10 Thread manday
Backspace in the Notebook in webkit(gtk) often (not always, haven't
found a pattern) joins the cell with the previous cell. As you might
imagine, that's fairly annoying. Could anyone have a look? Thanks.

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Re: [sage-devel] Backspace Key in Notebook

2013-05-10 Thread manday
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 11:10:58AM +0200, man...@gmx.net wrote:
 Backspace in the Notebook in webkit(gtk) often (not always, haven't
 found a pattern) joins the cell with the previous cell. As you might
 imagine, that's fairly annoying. Could anyone have a look? Thanks.

Similarly, CR often causes the cell to evaluate and break.

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Re: [sage-devel] Backspace Key in Notebook

2013-05-10 Thread manday
It might be related. I'm confident this happend while the cursor was at
the end of a line, though.

Also, I don't think this could explain the Enter-breaks-cell part, could
it?

If what you say is true and a non-empty (!) cell is joined with the
preceeding one when Backspace is pressed on the first line, I think this
should be changed. It's too easy to cause this behaviour by accident.

Anyway, I'm not aware of any such behaviour. I know that only from empty
cells, which is not related to the subject, however.

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 03:25:07AM -0600, David Roe wrote:
Do you mean typing backspace when the cursor is at the beginning of the
cell?  That's the expected behavior
David
 
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:10 AM, [1]man...@gmx.net wrote:
 
  Backspace in the Notebook in webkit(gtk) often (not always, haven't
  found a pattern) joins the cell with the previous cell. As you might
  imagine, that's fairly annoying. Could anyone have a look? Thanks.

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Re: [sage-devel] Backspace Key in Notebook

2013-05-10 Thread manday
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 05:56:03AM -0700, William Stein wrote:
 On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:04 AM,  man...@gmx.net wrote:
  It might be related. I'm confident this happend while the cursor was at
  the end of a line, though.
 
  Also, I don't think this could explain the Enter-breaks-cell part, could
  it?
 
  If what you say is true and a non-empty (!) cell is joined with the
  preceeding one when Backspace is pressed on the first line, I think this
  should be changed. It's too easy to cause this behaviour by accident.
 
  Anyway, I'm not aware of any such behaviour. I know that only from empty
  cells, which is not related to the subject, however.
 
 That behavior is supposed to be what happens when you press
 control-enter and control-backspace.  Any chance there's something
 going on involving the control key?

Yes, I know. No. I'm absolutely certain there is no control key
involved. If it helps, I have got the impression that it happens when I
place the cursor at the end of a line and do NOT type or move the cursor
before I press backspace. It's, however, only my impression and I can
not claim with certainty that it wouldn't happen under different
circumstances, either.

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[sage-devel] Re: Functional derivative consistent with current .diff( )

2013-04-21 Thread ManDay
Typo: All the gs are supposed to be J's, sorry.

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[sage-devel] Re: Functional derivative consistent with current .diff( )

2013-04-21 Thread ManDay
The resulting symbolic expression must contain a different sort of 
information. For example

∂²f/[∂J(x1)∂J(x2)]

does not have a analogon, if you try to dervive it in terms of ordinary 
differentiation with subsequent substitution. Structurally, for the 
functional derivative, you must basically be able to differentiate a 
function of infinitely many arguments (thus on an infinitely dimensional 
space) with regard to one of those arguments. The ordinary partial 
derivative obviously does not capture this kind of operation.

I was contemplating that, perhaps, such an operation could be implemented 
on top of a function

*f: ℂ∞ ⊕ … ⊕ ℂ∞ → ℂ*
*
*
for f[J(x)] that would just be f: ℂ∞ → *ℂ. *But even if I'm able to express 
that function in SAGE, we'd still need some notion of a derivative on that. 
Perhaps there are other cathegorically similar structures which can be used 
to implement it, I don't know,


On Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:03:31 PM UTC+2, adsmith wrote:

 On Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:03:07 PM UTC-4, ManDay wrote:

 I'd like to be able to derive in the following manner:

 x = var( x );
 J = function( g,x );
 f = function( f,g );

 # like so

 x1 = var( x1 );

 f.diff( J( x1 ) );

 which is the functional f derivate with respect to the value of J at x1. 
 Is this possible in a fashion at least similar to what I demonstrate above? 
 I'm not understanding enough of the internal workings of symbolic 
 expressions to modify diff so that it would do what I suggest, perhaps 
 someone has a clever idea.

 Thanks.


 How do you see this as being different than a substitution?
  


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[sage-devel] Functional derivative consistent with current .diff( )

2013-04-20 Thread ManDay
I'd like to be able to derive in the following manner:

x = var( x );
J = function( g,x );
f = function( f,g );

# like so

x1 = var( x1 );

f.diff( J( x1 ) );

which is the functional f derivate with respect to the value of J at x1. Is 
this possible in a fashion at least similar to what I demonstrate above? I'm 
not understanding enough of the internal workings of symbolic expressions to 
modify diff so that it would do what I suggest, perhaps someone has a clever 
idea.

Thanks.

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[sage-devel] Re: Ubuntu 10.04, JMOL, Java

2010-06-13 Thread ManDay
I too haven't got JMol to work in the NB, although it works fine as
the standalone application when run from the commandline. I don't see
how the site you mentioned would help. Installing JAVA was no problem
and it works just fine, including JMol applets on the jmol.sourceforge
site. This is most likely a problem of SAGE.

I've no ideas how to tackle it. Everything appears to be returned
correctly, from what I can tell, meaning that SAGE provides a JMol
file which says

set defaultdirectory sage0-size500-306189399.jmol.zip
script SCRIPT

and the according zip-file has the required contents. However, the
console gives out an error saying

FileManager opening 
http://localhost:8000/home/admin/0/cells/1/sage0-size500.jmol?1276349004
script compiler ERROR: command expected
line 1 command 1 of /home/admin/0/cells/1/sage0-size500.jmol?
1276349004:
   !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN 
script ERROR: script compiler ERROR: command expected
line 1 command 1 of /home/admin/0/cells/1/sage0-size500.jmol?
1276349004:
   !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN 
eval ERROR:
line 1 command 1:
 script  /home/admin/0/cells/1/sage0-size500.jmol?
1276349004 

Any further ideas?

On May 23, 11:39 pm, Bruce Cohen math.co...@gmail.com wrote:
 I found this 
 page:http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/java#TOC-Install-JR...
 to be quite useful.  jmolnow works on all my machines (running Ubuntu
 10.04)

 -Bruce

 On May 12, 9:07 pm, Bruce Cohen math.co...@gmail.com wrote:



  I have just triedjmolon two machines running 32 bitUbuntu10.04.
  At the command line

  var('x y')
  plot3d(x^2+y^2, (x,-2,2), (y,-2,2))

  works on both machines.

  The same commands in the notebook work fine on the machine with the
  fresh 10.04 install, but do not work on the one which
  was upgraded from 9.10.

  On the fresh install, I show this with a url of about:plugins

 Java(TM) Plug-in 1.6.0_20

     File: libnpjp2.so
     Version:
     The next generationJavaplug-in for Mozilla browsers.

  -Bruce

  On May 12, 5:05 am, Pablo Angulo pablo.ang...@uam.es wrote:

   My experience before 10.04 was that openjdk worked from the command
   line, but not in the notebook. This appeared to be the case.
   After reading this thread, I tried to drop my .mozilla folder,  which I
   have carried for years and now applets do work. More concretely, I
   renamed .mozilla into .mozilla-no, and got a freash browser.
   I've tried to find the particular file within .mozilla that causes the
   trouble, as I want to keep the bookmarks and history, unsuccessfully.

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[sage-devel] Re: Ubuntu 10.04, JMOL, Java

2010-06-13 Thread ManDay
Hello Paulo, firstly, I've tried both, Sun from the Partner
repositories and OpenJDK with IcedTea and none of them works.
Currently I'm using Sun's JAVA, that is where I get these exact errors
in the console. I've tried both with Firefox - I've even never heard
of Chromium (only Google Chrome)

Adam Webb, I hope you don't mind that I reply to you in this thread
for not to have two threads concerning the same issue (sorry for
creating it in the first place). You reply is actually very helpful to
me, because that way I have great hopes that I *can* get it to work.
Although I don't see why additional Java stuff would help it (Java
appears to be fully functional and, as mentioned, other applets work
flawlessly), it's a good idea to get me some additional stuff - you
never know. I'll look at the Open-Office suite and what Java it
recomments. Maybe one fixes it.

In the meantime I was hoping that someone could extract some
information from the error. I, for example, am surprised that it
mentions lines

line 1 command 1 of /home/admin/0/cells/1/sage0-size500.jmol?
1276349004:
   !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN


Which are nowhere in either of the files. Besides, the files appear to
be okay. The only difference to the ones on the JMOL wwebpage whose
applets do work is that latter tramsit the data directly in a bz file
whereas SAGE transmits a file to JMOL, telling it where the actual
data can be found, which then is a ZIP file.

On Jun 13, 6:10 pm, Paulo César Pereira de Andrade
paulo.cesar.pereira.de.andr...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/6/13 ManDay man...@gmx.net:

  I too haven't got JMol to work in the NB, although it works fine as
  the standalone application when run from the commandline. I don't see
  how the site you mentioned would help. Installing JAVA was no problem
  and it works just fine, including JMol applets on the jmol.sourceforge
  site. This is most likely a problem of SAGE.

  I've no ideas how to tackle it. Everything appears to be returned
  correctly, from what I can tell, meaning that SAGE provides a JMol
  file which says

  set defaultdirectory sage0-size500-306189399.jmol.zip
  script SCRIPT

  and the according zip-file has the required contents. However, the
  console gives out an error saying

   Out of curiosity, are you using openjdk with firefox or chromium browser?

   I opened a bug report 
 athttp://icedtea.classpath.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=493where I
 describe the procedure I used to make openjdk work with chromium, but
 in sage, jmol for some reason only works with chromium in the
 tutorial. If I create a new worksheet, I get the errors that appear to
 be the same you describe (html contents where a jmol input was
 expected). Also in my case, it appears to be some problem that firefox
 works around, but I still did not stop to debug the data being
 sent/received...

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