Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-14 Thread François Bissey 


> On 15/03/2018, at 11:56, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 8:05:05 PM UTC, François Bissey wrote:
> I haven’t done on a build on that hardware (power7) in some time. One of my 
> limitation 
> is that I cannot install a more modern linux on those without breaking my 
> access to the GPFS file system. I have a beefy gentoo prefix on there though, 
> so I can technically test sage-on-gentoo on top. 
> 
> I wonder whether you're running your power7 in little-endian mode there.
> Naturally it would be more interesting to see whether a big-endian setup 
> works.
> 

big-endian, moving to little endian would mean getting some updates for
the thin layer hypervisor that sits on top of the hardware and that
would means paying some support money I don’t have.

While power always could technically be setup in any endianness, the 
support for little endian has only been forthcoming from IBM with
the arrival of power8. Way after we bought the hardware.

François

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-14 Thread Dima Pasechnik 


On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 8:05:05 PM UTC, François Bissey wrote:
>
> I haven’t done on a build on that hardware (power7) in some time. One of 
> my limitation 
> is that I cannot install a more modern linux on those without breaking my 
> access to the GPFS file system. I have a beefy gentoo prefix on there 
> though, 
> so I can technically test sage-on-gentoo on top. 
>

I wonder whether you're running your power7 in little-endian mode there.
Naturally it would be more interesting to see whether a big-endian setup 
works.

Dima 

>
> > On 15/03/2018, at 02:32, Jean-Pierre Flori  > wrote: 
> > 
> > I have (or used to have) access to a power 7 machine and so did Francois 
> Bissey IIRC. 
> > Things were in quite good shape there. 
>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-14 Thread François Bissey 
I haven’t done on a build on that hardware (power7) in some time. One of my 
limitation
is that I cannot install a more modern linux on those without breaking my
access to the GPFS file system. I have a beefy gentoo prefix on there though,
so I can technically test sage-on-gentoo on top.

> On 15/03/2018, at 02:32, Jean-Pierre Flori  wrote:
> 
> I have (or used to have) access to a power 7 machine and so did Francois 
> Bissey IIRC.
> Things were in quite good shape there.

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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-14 Thread Jean-Pierre Flori 
I have (or used to have) access to a power 7 machine and so did Francois 
Bissey IIRC.
Things were in quite good shape there.

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 1:52:07 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 6:42:33 AM UTC, vdelecroix wrote:
>>
>> As mentioned on the ticket, this big-endian incompatibility does not 
>> prevent the inclusion of primecount as an "experimental package" that I 
>> still aim to achieve (the type of the package "experimental", "optional" 
>> or "standard" is simply a flag). In practice "experimental" means "not 
>> officially supported" and "less tested". 
>>
>> And as Dima mentioned, it would be simpler for SageMath to have 
>> primecount supporting big-endian. We certainly do not want that a single 
>> library prevents using SageMath on big-endian architecture. 
>>
>> Now, three questions for Sage developers: 
>>
>> - Who is testing a big-endian architecture? 
>>
>> - Are all optional packages big-endian compatible? 
>>
>> - Is it reasonable to ask for big-endian compatibility for 
>>optional packages? 
>>
>
> The current status of big-endian Sage is that it sort of works on SPARC 
> Solaris 11 (thanks to Jeroen and your humble servant),
> but more work is needed. I  underestimated how much effort it would be, 
> when I started this back in January. :-)
> Interesting (and not so interesting) upstream bugs emerged in many 
> packages...
>
> see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24596
>
> The machine is a VM (Solaris "zone") hosted at Warwick University, and we 
> would be able to run a patchbot there,
> once the port iis in reasonable shape.
>
> I understand that there are other big-endian architectures out there 
> capable of running Sage.
> (they are often able to do both big- and little-endian, though)
>
> Dima
>
>
>
>> Vincent 
>>
>> PS: to discuss these kind of issues related to development, it is better 
>> to use the other google group sage-devel. 
>>
>> On 13/03/2018 23:11, Dima Pasechnik wrote: 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 9:41:50 PM UTC, Kim Walisch wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Hi, 
>> >> 
>> >> We all know that the big-endian CPU architecture is slowly dying, 
>> >> some people even state that "Big-Endian is effectively dead". 
>> >> 
>> >> So my question is: Does sagemath still support big-endian CPU 
>> >> architectures like e.g. 32-bit Sparc? 
>> >> 
>> > 
>> > We have recently more or less revived a SPARC Solaris 11 port of 
>> Sagemath. 
>> > So yes, please, make it both-endian... 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >   
>> > 
>> >> 
>> >> I am asking because there is a ticket 
>> >> (https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24966 
>> >> <
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.sagemath.org%2Fticket%2F24966&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHvco5SWFB7CiS50MxgtC2P8g3mxA>)
>>  
>>
>> >> to integrate my primecount 
>> >> library into sagemath and primecount currently only supports 
>> >> little-endian CPUs. I could support big-endian CPUs but I want to 
>> >> make sure this is required by sagemath. 
>> >> 
>> >> Thanks, 
>> >> Kim 
>> >> 
>> > 
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-14 Thread Dima Pasechnik 
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 6:42:33 AM UTC, vdelecroix wrote:
>
> As mentioned on the ticket, this big-endian incompatibility does not 
> prevent the inclusion of primecount as an "experimental package" that I 
> still aim to achieve (the type of the package "experimental", "optional" 
> or "standard" is simply a flag). In practice "experimental" means "not 
> officially supported" and "less tested". 
>
> And as Dima mentioned, it would be simpler for SageMath to have 
> primecount supporting big-endian. We certainly do not want that a single 
> library prevents using SageMath on big-endian architecture. 
>
> Now, three questions for Sage developers: 
>
> - Who is testing a big-endian architecture? 
>
> - Are all optional packages big-endian compatible? 
>
> - Is it reasonable to ask for big-endian compatibility for 
>optional packages? 
>

The current status of big-endian Sage is that it sort of works on SPARC 
Solaris 11 (thanks to Jeroen and your humble servant),
but more work is needed. I  underestimated how much effort it would be, 
when I started this back in January. :-)
Interesting (and not so interesting) upstream bugs emerged in many 
packages...

see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24596

The machine is a VM (Solaris "zone") hosted at Warwick University, and we 
would be able to run a patchbot there,
once the port iis in reasonable shape.

I understand that there are other big-endian architectures out there 
capable of running Sage.
(they are often able to do both big- and little-endian, though)

Dima



> Vincent 
>
> PS: to discuss these kind of issues related to development, it is better 
> to use the other google group sage-devel. 
>
> On 13/03/2018 23:11, Dima Pasechnik wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 9:41:50 PM UTC, Kim Walisch wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Hi, 
> >> 
> >> We all know that the big-endian CPU architecture is slowly dying, 
> >> some people even state that "Big-Endian is effectively dead". 
> >> 
> >> So my question is: Does sagemath still support big-endian CPU 
> >> architectures like e.g. 32-bit Sparc? 
> >> 
> > 
> > We have recently more or less revived a SPARC Solaris 11 port of 
> Sagemath. 
> > So yes, please, make it both-endian... 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> >> 
> >> I am asking because there is a ticket 
> >> (https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24966 
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.sagemath.org%2Fticket%2F24966&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHvco5SWFB7CiS50MxgtC2P8g3mxA>)
>  
>
> >> to integrate my primecount 
> >> library into sagemath and primecount currently only supports 
> >> little-endian CPUs. I could support big-endian CPUs but I want to 
> >> make sure this is required by sagemath. 
> >> 
> >> Thanks, 
> >> Kim 
> >> 
> > 
>

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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-support] Re: Has Big-Endian support been deprecated yet?

2018-03-13 Thread Vincent Delecroix 

Dear Kim,

As mentioned on the ticket, this big-endian incompatibility does not
prevent the inclusion of primecount as an "experimental package" that I
still aim to achieve (the type of the package "experimental", "optional"
or "standard" is simply a flag). In practice "experimental" means "not
officially supported" and "less tested".

And as Dima mentioned, it would be simpler for SageMath to have
primecount supporting big-endian. We certainly do not want that a single
library prevents using SageMath on big-endian architecture.

Now, three questions for Sage developers:

- Who is testing a big-endian architecture?

- Are all optional packages big-endian compatible?

- Is it reasonable to ask for big-endian compatibility for
  optional packages?

Vincent

PS: to discuss these kind of issues related to development, it is better
to use the other google group sage-devel.

On 13/03/2018 23:11, Dima Pasechnik wrote:



On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 9:41:50 PM UTC, Kim Walisch wrote:


Hi,

We all know that the big-endian CPU architecture is slowly dying,
some people even state that "Big-Endian is effectively dead".

So my question is: Does sagemath still support big-endian CPU
architectures like e.g. 32-bit Sparc?



We have recently more or less revived a SPARC Solaris 11 port of Sagemath.
So yes, please, make it both-endian...


  



I am asking because there is a ticket
(https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24966
)
to integrate my primecount
library into sagemath and primecount currently only supports
little-endian CPUs. I could support big-endian CPUs but I want to
make sure this is required by sagemath.

Thanks,
Kim





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