[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
(1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. I am not ANAL, but it can be considered not as a law question, but as a simple mathematical problem. Every licence has 3 sets of statements: permissions, restrictions, and warranties. A license A is compatible for license B (i.e. code developed under license A can be included in the distribution licensed under licence B), if the set of restrictions of A is a subset of the set of restrictions of B, the set of permissions of B is a subset of the set of permissions of A, and the set of warranties of B is a subset of the set of warranties of A. While the Microsoft Permissive License permissions and warranties include all the GPL permissions and warranties, it has restrictions that are not present in GPL that makes it not GPL-compatible. Alec --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Criticism On 2/18/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourcelicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. (2) General thoughts? -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
Answers.com INAL, but... http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-software-licenses On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, William Stein wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourcelicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. (2) General thoughts? -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
On Sunday 18 February 2007 17:30, William Stein wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourc elicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. The FSF Europe praises this license as GPL compatible here. This is obviously not a legal document, but still. http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/10/19/1635226.shtml (2) General thoughts? In the back of my non-lawyer head I believe that either the Open Source Initiative or the FSE have some infrastructure in place to help projects like SAGE with these questions. What about the Microsoft lawyers? As they are already involved don't they have a position on if the license is GPL compatible? Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
In the back of my non-lawyer head I believe that either the Open Source Initiative or the FSE have some infrastructure in place to help projects like SAGE with these questions. What about the Microsoft lawyers? As they are already involved don't they have a position on if the license is GPL compatible? FSF says: Incompatible, This license does not permit commercial distribution, and only allows commercial use under certain circumstances. Microsoft has other licenses which it describes as Shared Source, some of which have different restrictions. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#SoftwareLicenses OSI doesn't have an entry for it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
Boothby what you looked up does not seem to be the same as Microsoft Permissive License --- (Ms-PL) - The Ms-PL is the least restrictive of the Microsoft source code licenses. It allows licensees to view, modify, and redistribute the source code for either commercial or non-commercial purposes. Under the Ms-PL, licensees may change the source code and share it with others. Licensees may also charge a licensing fee for their modified work if they so wish. Microsoft uses this license most commonly for its developer tools, applications, and components. --- MICROSOFT SHARED SOURCE CLI, C#, AND JSCRIPT LICENSE This License governs use of the accompanying Software, and your use of the Software constitutes acceptance of this license. You may use this Software for any non-commercial purpose, subject to the restrictions in this license. Some purposes which can be non-commercial are teaching, academic research, and personal experimentation. You may also distribute this Software with books or other teaching materials, or publish the Software on websites, that are intended to teach the use of the Software. On 2/18/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the back of my non-lawyer head I believe that either the Open Source Initiative or the FSE have some infrastructure in place to help projects like SAGE with these questions. What about the Microsoft lawyers? As they are already involved don't they have a position on if the license is GPL compatible? FSF says: Incompatible, This license does not permit commercial distribution, and only allows commercial use under certain circumstances. Microsoft has other licenses which it describes as Shared Source, some of which have different restrictions. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#SoftwareLicenses OSI doesn't have an entry for it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
On Sunday 18 February 2007 17:53, Jason Martin wrote: I just learned what IANAL means, and indeed I am not a Lawyer, but point 3c of the Microsoft Permissive License appears to directly conflict with the GPL. This is potentially endless, but: 3c: If you distribute any portion of the software, you must retain all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices that are present in the software. * copyright -- same as in BSD style license, so this shouldn't be a problem * patent -- not covered by GPL v2 (?) * trademark -- not covered by GPL v2 (?) * attribution notice -- what does that mean exactly? Thoughts? Martin PS: Get a lawyer ... quick ... sage-devel is about to be flooded by masses of law related e-mails by people without a slightest clue (e.g. me) -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
On 2/18/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourcelicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. Simplest solution: MS employees should ask lawyers at their company whether MS-PL is GPL2-compatible or not. didier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
Oops, strike this comment. Clearly I am neither a lawyer nor a careful reader (commas are so tricky). As I re-read the license several times, I now cannot see any conflict with GPL. However, several webpages (including wikipedia's software license list) say that it does conflict. I cannot see how the Microsoft Permissive License would cause any problem in a portion of software included with Sage. --jason On 2/18/07, Jason Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just learned what IANAL means, and indeed I am not a Lawyer, but point 3c of the Microsoft Permissive License appears to directly conflict with the GPL. --jason On 2/18/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourcelicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. (2) General thoughts? -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington -- Jason Worth Martin Asst. Prof. of Mathematics James Madison University http://www.math.jmu.edu/~martin phone: (+1) 540-568-5101 fax: (+1) 540-568-6857 Ever my heart rises as we draw near the mountains. There is good rock here. -- Gimli, son of Gloin -- Jason Worth Martin Asst. Prof. of Mathematics James Madison University http://www.math.jmu.edu/~martin phone: (+1) 540-568-5101 fax: (+1) 540-568-6857 Ever my heart rises as we draw near the mountains. There is good rock here. -- Gimli, son of Gloin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
On 2/18/07, Jason Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just learned what IANAL means, and indeed I am not a Lawyer, but point 3c of the Microsoft Permissive License appears to directly conflict with the GPL. Why??? Sorry, but that's not at all clear to me. Point 3c says: (C) If you distribute any portion of the software, you must retain all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices that are present in the software. Doesn't this basically mean that you can't just make a derived work that is the original work but with the copyright and other statements from the original work deleted? I'm not convinced that is GPL incompatible. I.e., I agree with Martin that this isn't clearly incompatible. There might be patent restrictions in the Microsoft license that could render it GPL incompatible. But those restrictions seem to me, as stated in their license, might not be a problem. Here's the statement: (B) If you bring a patent claim against any contributor over patents that you claim are infringed by the software, your patent license from such contributor to the software ends automatically. Simplest solution: MS employees should ask lawyers at their company whether MS-PL is GPL2-compatible or not. Said MS employees are naive about such stuff. Moreover, it doesn't matter what the MS lawyers say about GPL compatibility of their license, since it doesn't make it so. Anyway, the real question isn't is the license GPL compatible, but is code under this license suitable for inclusion in SAGE? This is not a well defined question, since it depends on the community, which is why I greatly value your feedback. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
On 2/18/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Certain kind researchers at Microsoft Rsearch have code they would like to contribute to SAGE. They are only allowed release it under the Microsoft Permissive License, which is described here (and linked to): http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/licensingbasics/sharedsourcelicenses.mspx (1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find I agree that it seems GPL compatible. anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. (2) General thoughts? -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
(2) General thoughts? Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes Tiziano --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: ianal but...
(1) Is this license GPL compatible? It seems like it might be. It is very free (much more so than the GPL). What do you think? I couldn't find anything definitive online... One thing -- this license is very clear about patent issues, which is comforting. Hello, According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_licenses#GPL_2_incompatible the MS-PL is not GPL compatible. There is no reason given and I would be cautious whether this is true or not - this is Wikipedia after all. The license isn't listed among the GPL compatible and incompatible licenses at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses , but ifross considers it a license with restricted choices - see http://www.ifross.de/ifross_html/lizenzcenter-en.html - back in 2005 the FSF Europe promised to look into the GPL compability but as fas as I can tell nothing ever got published. At http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/archives/2005/10/microsoft_annou.html you get the following opinion: One very interesting feature of the licences, which differentiates e.g. the Ms-PL from the BSD licence, is that they have each got a termination-for-patent-litigation clause. Among other things, this makes the Ms-PL incompatible with the GPL (or, at least, GPL version 2). At least in the past Microsoft Employees have contributed to GPL licensed software and the Interix product (aka SFU or Services For Unix - bought by Microsoft some time back) ships with software licensed under the GPL, i.e. gcc and lots of other tools. Microsoft's policy regarding the GPL might have changed and IANAL, too. I personally would not accept anything not GPL licensed, but in case of SAGE this is certainly not my call. Cheers, Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
