Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I feel you, man...Sorry for the late comment, but I have the same feelings when I watch the docs on the marine's Pacific campaigns with no mention of the black marines who did there fair share of fighting in that war... --- On Sat, 6/27/09, votomguy votom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: votomguy votom...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 10:39 AM I have Brothers in Arms. :) I'm a little sick of the Tuskgee Airmen tho. Too many of our folk only know them. I'm surprised you forgot the 92nd infantry Division. I have their unit patch as well as the unit patch of the 555th. They were the first Smoke Jumpers. Also the 555th was folded into the Screaming Eagles during the Vietnam War. I've met several of those guys. You should see their faces light up when you ask them about being a paratrooper. I always get pissed when I see D-Day landings with all white troops. **shudder** And I know about the 9th and 10th. Especially the 10th as they fought alongside the infamous Roughriders, but pretty much had to take Roosevelt under their wing as they were the only unit in the Spanish American War that had combat experience. Sorry got a little carried away there, but when you look at the fact that blacks have been fighting for this country before it was a country (cough, cough 7 Years War cough). ok I'll try to behave now --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: You have hit my passion...Blacks in WWII. Since my dad was on a few ships during the War, including the USS Colorado, and the Ajax, and he was in the Philippine campaign, I developed a passion for books about how Blacks were treated. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 761st Tank Battalion and General Patton, or the 9th and 10th Cavalry, or the 555th (Triple Nickle) Paratrooper battalion... _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:52 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs) . I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2% 40yahoogroups. com ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votomguy@ wrote: From: votomguy votomguy@ Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2% 40yahoogroups. com ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
No problem. It's all good. --- On Sat, 6/27/09, wlro...@aol.com wlro...@aol.com wrote: From: wlro...@aol.com wlro...@aol.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 4:37 AM OK I know I am late, but please forgive, I did not know you were an author. --Lavender From: Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I got a bit of advice from a writer friend of mine.He told me my audience was anyone who reads. He told me don't tell them my book is either science fiction or fantasy, just tell them what it's about. Get them into the story, not the genre. It's worked pretty well so far. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com wrote: From: Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:36 PM It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course.. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans.. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
PS: My bus company driver number is 555... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Reece Jennings Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:01 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I LOVE your zeal, my friend, and I love that our family here has indulged my passion. I knew about the 92nd, but I left them out because I couldn't remember the exact unit, and I was trying to be a little brief. Also, the AlCan highway and the Black Engineers... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:39 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I have Brothers in Arms. :) I'm a little sick of the Tuskgee Airmen tho. Too many of our folk only know them. I'm surprised you forgot the 92nd infantry Division. I have their unit patch as well as the unit patch of the 555th. They were the first Smoke Jumpers. Also the 555th was folded into the Screaming Eagles during the Vietnam War. I've met several of those guys. You should see their faces light up when you ask them about being a paratrooper. I always get pissed when I see D-Day landings with all white troops. **shudder** And I know about the 9th and 10th. Especially the 10th as they fought alongside the infamous Roughriders, but pretty much had to take Roosevelt under their wing as they were the only unit in the Spanish American War that had combat experience. Sorry got a little carried away there, but when you look at the fact that blacks have been fighting for this country before it was a country (cough, cough 7 Years War cough). ok I'll try to behave now --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@... wrote: You have hit my passion...Blacks in WWII. Since my dad was on a few ships during the War, including the USS Colorado, and the Ajax, and he was in the Philippine campaign, I developed a passion for books about how Blacks were treated. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 761st Tank Battalion and General Patton, or the 9th and 10th Cavalry, or the 555th (Triple Nickle) Paratrooper battalion... _ From: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:52 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs). I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votomguy@ wrote: From: votomguy votomguy@ Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I have Brothers in Arms. :) I'm a little sick of the Tuskgee Airmen tho. Too many of our folk only know them. I'm surprised you forgot the 92nd infantry Division. I have their unit patch as well as the unit patch of the 555th. They were the first Smoke Jumpers. Also the 555th was folded into the Screaming Eagles during the Vietnam War. I've met several of those guys. You should see their faces light up when you ask them about being a paratrooper. I always get pissed when I see D-Day landings with all white troops. **shudder** And I know about the 9th and 10th. Especially the 10th as they fought alongside the infamous Roughriders, but pretty much had to take Roosevelt under their wing as they were the only unit in the Spanish American War that had combat experience. Sorry got a little carried away there, but when you look at the fact that blacks have been fighting for this country before it was a country (cough, cough 7 Years War cough). ok I'll try to behave now --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@... wrote: You have hit my passion...Blacks in WWII. Since my dad was on a few ships during the War, including the USS Colorado, and the Ajax, and he was in the Philippine campaign, I developed a passion for books about how Blacks were treated. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 761st Tank Battalion and General Patton, or the 9th and 10th Cavalry, or the 555th (Triple Nickle) Paratrooper battalion... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:52 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs). I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votomguy@ wrote: From: votomguy votomguy@ Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I LOVE your zeal, my friend, and I love that our family here has indulged my passion. I knew about the 92nd, but I left them out because I couldn't remember the exact unit, and I was trying to be a little brief. Also, the AlCan highway and the Black Engineers... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:39 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I have Brothers in Arms. :) I'm a little sick of the Tuskgee Airmen tho. Too many of our folk only know them. I'm surprised you forgot the 92nd infantry Division. I have their unit patch as well as the unit patch of the 555th. They were the first Smoke Jumpers. Also the 555th was folded into the Screaming Eagles during the Vietnam War. I've met several of those guys. You should see their faces light up when you ask them about being a paratrooper. I always get pissed when I see D-Day landings with all white troops. **shudder** And I know about the 9th and 10th. Especially the 10th as they fought alongside the infamous Roughriders, but pretty much had to take Roosevelt under their wing as they were the only unit in the Spanish American War that had combat experience. Sorry got a little carried away there, but when you look at the fact that blacks have been fighting for this country before it was a country (cough, cough 7 Years War cough). ok I'll try to behave now --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@... wrote: You have hit my passion...Blacks in WWII. Since my dad was on a few ships during the War, including the USS Colorado, and the Ajax, and he was in the Philippine campaign, I developed a passion for books about how Blacks were treated. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 761st Tank Battalion and General Patton, or the 9th and 10th Cavalry, or the 555th (Triple Nickle) Paratrooper battalion... _ From: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:52 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs). I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votomguy@ wrote: From: votomguy votomguy@ Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs). I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_...@... wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votom...@... wrote: From: votomguy votom...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing.. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
There's a brother at blacksciencefictionsociety.com named Ronald T. Jones that writes excellent military sci/fi. I have his book Chronicle Of The Vindicator. He's currently submitting manuscripts to publishers. You should Chronicles if you get a chance. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, votomguy votom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: votomguy votom...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 2:52 PM True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs) . I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ ... wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votom...@.. . wrote: From: votomguy votom...@.. . Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing.. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
Thanks. The story certainly looks interesting. It's just made my wishlist. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_...@... wrote: There's a brother at blacksciencefictionsociety.com named Ronald T. Jones that writes excellent military sci/fi. I have his book Chronicle Of The Vindicator. He's currently submitting manuscripts to publishers. You should Chronicles if you get a chance. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, votomguy votom...@... wrote: From: votomguy votom...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 2:52 PM True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs) . I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ ... wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votomguy@ . wrote: From: votomguy votomguy@ . Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing.. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
You have hit my passion...Blacks in WWII. Since my dad was on a few ships during the War, including the USS Colorado, and the Ajax, and he was in the Philippine campaign, I developed a passion for books about how Blacks were treated. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 761st Tank Battalion and General Patton, or the 9th and 10th Cavalry, or the 555th (Triple Nickle) Paratrooper battalion... _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of votomguy Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:52 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? True. I love the hard science/ military scifi books so those were always the books that I looked for. I got tired of not being able to find hard science/ military scifi books writen by blacks or that have blacks as the main character (real characters not cheeseballs). I took to studying the Black presence in WWII and I picked up a couple of books. Alot of males in general (hey let's face it white guys don't read as much as everybody thinks). I would love to see another book like Dark Matter come out. It went along way towards pointing me to Black scifi writers. I always took solace in my favorite comic writers (Dwayne McDuffie and Christopher Priest). Not only do they write comics, but they also write comics I can read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_...@... wrote: I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votom...@... wrote: From: votomguy votom...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing.. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
OK I know I am late, but please forgive, I did not know you were an author. --Lavender From: Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I got a bit of advice from a writer friend of mine.He told me my audience was anyone who reads. He told me don't tell them my book is either science fiction or fantasy, just tell them what it's about. Get them into the story, not the genre. It's worked pretty well so far. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Reece Jennings mcjennings...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:36 PM It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course.. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: From: B. Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhoward@ ... To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I totally agree with your assessment. I consider Octavia Butler one of the foremost practictioner of a new genre I call Social Economic fiction, or SE. SE is also the field I dabble in. ~rave! http://twitter.com/ravenadal http://theworldebon.blogspot.com --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_...@... wrote: I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith daikaij...@... wrote: From: B. Smith daikaij...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhoward@ ... To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
She wasn't what got me into scifi, but she did inspire me to start writing scifi. I remember my mom bringing home Adulthood Rites for me and being so excited that there were actually black people that wrote scifi. Adulthood Rites was the only book that she wrote. (what can I say I cut my scifi teeth on Battletech Novels) She did inspire me to believe that black people could not only write scifi, but get it published as well. While her style of scifi may not be my cup of tea, that doesn't stop me from including her in the greats. I can't stand Assimov (I think he's a little overrated) but he's up there. At least, Octavia Butler never got too full of herself. (cough cough Heinlein cough) --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_...@... wrote: I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith daikaij...@... wrote: From: B. Smith daikaij...@... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhoward@ ... To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
When I first came into fandom back in '74, my public library had barely 300 SF/fantasy books on the shelves, the vast majority were British SF writers (because the associate librarian who gave herself the job of stocking the section came from Oxfordshire). I learned the trade from Moorcock, Aldiss, Brunner and Stapledon, though I count Zelazny as my primary influence. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:09 - From : votomguy votom...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com She wasn't what got me into scifi, but she did inspire me to start writing scifi. I remember my mom bringing home Adulthood Rites for me and being so excited that there were actually black people that wrote scifi. Adulthood Rites was the only book that she wrote. (what can I say I cut my scifi teeth on Battletech Novels) She did inspire me to believe that black people could not only write scifi, but get it published as well. While her style of scifi may not be my cup of tea, that doesn't stop me from including her in the greats. I can't stand Assimov (I think he's a little overrated) but he's up there. At least, Octavia Butler never got too full of herself. (cough cough Heinlein cough) --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Milton Davis wrote: I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com wrote: From: B. Smith daikaij...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro http://us.mc459.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhoward@ ... To : scifino...@yahoogro http://us.mc459.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds v=JQdwk8Yntds
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings...@yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
Assimov's short stories were much better than his novels. As far as science fiction novels, I never doubted that black people could write them; I always asked myself why weren't we writing them. Then I was introduced to the business of publishing and discovered why. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: votomguy votom...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:22 PM She wasn't what got me into scifi, but she did inspire me to start writing scifi. I remember my mom bringing home Adulthood Rites for me and being so excited that there were actually black people that wrote scifi. Adulthood Rites was the only book that she wrote. (what can I say I cut my scifi teeth on Battletech Novels) She did inspire me to believe that black people could not only write scifi, but get it published as well. While her style of scifi may not be my cup of tea, that doesn't stop me from including her in the greats. I can't stand Assimov (I think he's a little overrated) but he's up there. At least, Octavia Butler never got too full of herself. (cough cough Heinlein cough) --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Milton Davis mv_media_atl@ ... wrote: I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith daikaiju66@ ... wrote: From: B. Smith daikaiju66@ ... Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhoward@ ... To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
Frank Hebert's Dune was the first science fiction novel that made me saw 'wow!' I was a big Philip Jose Farmer fan, and I like the Conan series, not necessarily Robert E. Howard. I liked the Elric novels, too. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:16 PM When I first came into fandom back in '74, my public library had barely 300 SF/fantasy books on the shelves, the vast majority were British SF writers (because the associate librarian who gave herself the job of stocking the section came from Oxfordshire) . I learned the trade from Moorcock, Aldiss, Brunner and Stapledon, though I count Zelazny as my primary influence. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:09 - From : votomguy votom...@yahoo. com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com She wasn't what got me into scifi, but she did inspire me to start writing scifi. I remember my mom bringing home Adulthood Rites for me and being so excited that there were actually black people that wrote scifi. Adulthood Rites was the only book that she wrote. (what can I say I cut my scifi teeth on Battletech Novels) She did inspire me to believe that black people could not only write scifi, but get it published as well. While her style of scifi may not be my cup of tea, that doesn't stop me from including her in the greats. I can't stand Assimov (I think he's a little overrated) but he's up there. At least, Octavia Butler never got too full of herself. (cough cough Heinlein cough) --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Milton Davis wrote: I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@lycos.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I do book signings at least once a month. The majority of the books I have sold have been to black women. I did a book club meeting last year, all women. I have a book club meeting sheduled in August, all women. I'm confident I'll find more black men willing to read my books and I am seeing more interest among the brothers, especially the young ones. I'm convinced that when made aware of what's available the brothers will come. I hope I'm right. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, votomguy votom...@yahoo.com wrote: From: votomguy votom...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:07 PM Before the hiphop/street novel craze, my mom told me about an article (this was in the 90s) that said that Publishers refuse to publish books because black men don't read enough. To which I replied, If they never publish the books then how will we ever find anything to read. My mom simply said that maybe publishers don't want black men to read. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ ... wrote: It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ ... Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifinoir2@ yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing.. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even
RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
I got a bit of advice from a writer friend of mine.He told me my audience was anyone who reads. He told me don't tell them my book is either science fiction or fantasy, just tell them what it's about. Get them into the story, not the genre. It's worked pretty well so far. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Reece Jennings mcjennings...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Reece Jennings mcjennings...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:36 PM It might be a combination of all of that, Milton. Yes, Black Women will set up book clubs, and discuss books, etc. But when I mention Sci-Fi to most Black Women, and even try to get the to read some of Ms. Butler's books, they tend to pre-judge and reject without looking. So I keep it to myself...except here, of course. I think a lot of women are cutting off a vast expanse of great reading by pre-judging SF. From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:38 PM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know a lot a black male fans of Butler. I just seems in my experience most of her fans I've met were black females. But then again that might be because black females read a lot more than we brothers. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com wrote: From: Martin Baxter truthseeker013@ lycos.com Subject: RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:37 PM That comprises a graduating class of considerable note. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : RE: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:52 -0400 From : Reece Jennings mcjennings124@ yahoo.com To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I love her. She's my favorite because of the social aspect of her writing. I've been a Black Male all say (peeking to make sure!) Of course, we are both 1947 Cancerians, so that might have something to do with it! :o) _ From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifinoir2@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Milton Davis Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? I know plenty young black science fiction fans that credit Octavia Butler as the beacon that led them to science fiction. I'm an old school science fiction fan, raised on Assimov, Delany, Herbert and Ellision. I like Butler's work, but I consider it more social science fiction. She deals more with relationships and issues rather than the technical aspect of science fiction, which we all know gets more attention. I think that's the reason her prose seems to have special appeal to black female science fiction fans.. I enjoyed everything I've read by her but I can't say I'm a fan. She was a greater writer than I'll probably ever be and got her respect among the sci/fi elite if not the mainstream. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, B. Smith wrote: From: B. Smith Subject: Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:19 AM She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry To : scifino...@yahoogro ups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=JQdwk8Yntds
Re: [RE][scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press?
She's highly regarded but not given the same respect as the legendary hard sci-fi types. Her work falls into the more literary side of the genre and in some ways she was more highly regarded outside the genre. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter truthseeker...@... wrote: George, it's possible, but I see her lack of props as being more a matter of the mainstream SF press not knowing what the frell it's doing. IMO, they've become like the music industry, more interested in the flavor of the week than actual decent work. When I go to the bookstore and browse the SF/fantasy shelves, the stuff I see is so derivative as to be embarrassing. Nine times out of ten, I can figure out what the story inside the covers is solely by what pose the characters on the cover are striking. Shouldn't be that easy, even for a guy with my brain. -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [scifinoir2] Is Octavia Butler underrated in mainstream sci-fi press? Date : Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From : George Arterberry brotherfromhow...@... To : scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com I've rarely seen her represented in so-called mainstream press. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQdwk8Yntds
