Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open Source Movement?

[Charles Haynes]

Thanks! About half of those are new to me and have just gone on the
"must see" list. :)

-- Charles

On Jan 23, 2008 12:19 PM, Abhishek Hazra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> there are enough interesting artists in bangalore too. don't know if
> you are already familiar with the following artist's
> (below is a random, on the spur of the moment listing) will try and
> give a more deatiled overview soon
>
> 01. Sheela Gowda (a big inspiration for many of us, must see, her
> installation, "And tell him of my pain")
> 02. Ayisha Abraham (conceptual artist working with film, sound, video
> - interesting audio piece, "Calling the nation")
> 03. Pushpamala (photography and performance - an entertaining and
> critical body of work, "Native indian woman")
> 04. Kiran Subbaiah ( i really like his work - an fascinating hybridity
> of objects, video, text-based stuff, net-art.
> www.geocities.com/antikiran)
> 05. Avinash Veeraraghavan (interesting photo collages of the self and
> the city - photo book, " I love my india")
> 06. Prabhavati M (subtle and minimal works on gessoed board)
> 07. Anup Mathew Thomas (doing a multi part photography based work on
> kerala. has done some interesting work based on the National Library
> in Lahore)
> 08. Surekha (video artists, feminist, explorations of gendered subject)
> more soon...
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2008 12:01 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Jan 23, 2008 6:02 AM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > galleries, afford internet connections, etc. there are a huge number of
> > > professional artists in india; they are less likely to live in cities or
> > > speak english or find space in galleries or have internet connections,
> >
> > Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point me at some of them, preferably
> > within a day's drive of Bangalore? I have so far been unable to locate
> > any, and would welcome any pointers.
> >
> > -- Charles
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> does the frog know it has a latin name?
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>

Re: [silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Srini Ramakrishnan]

On Jan 23, 2008 3:01 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> I guess what I am trying to say is, hello.

Hey Taj, hello back to you, and welcome, nice to see you here.

Cheeni

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Charles Haynes]

On Jan 23, 2008 7:14 AM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> most of europe is christian, a higher proportion than india is hindu,

Eurobarometer 2005 showed that only 52% of Europeans "believe there is
a god" and 18% say "I don' t believe there is any sort of spirit, God
or life force" while the 2001 Indian census shows over 80% of Indians
are Hindu.

> and has fewer linguistic divisions than india

Europe has 23 official languages: Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch,
English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish,
Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian,
Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish. India has 22: Assamese, Bengali,
Bodo, English, French, Garo, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada , Khasi,
Kokborok, Konkani, Malayalam, Marathi, Meitei, Mizo, Nepali, Oriya,
Punjabi, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu. I'd call that a tie, really.

Not drawing any conclusions, just trying to inject some facts.

Carry on,
-- Charles

Re: [silk] The gig is up?

[Gautam John]

On Jan 22, 2008 3:07 PM, Udhay Shankar N <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Last year was terrible for the recorded-music majors. The next few years
> are likely to be even worse

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/state-of-digital-music-2007.ars

A brave new world: the music biz at the dawn of 2008

By Nate Anderson | Published: January 22, 2008 - 11:58PM CT
Is the music industry dying?

An anecdote in a recent Economist perfectly summed up the problems
facing the major music labels. After EMI, the smallest of the Big
Four, invited a teen focus group to its London headquarters in 2006,
it wanted to give the teens something for their time. The response is
worth quoting in full.

At the end of the session the EMI bosses thanked them for their
comments and told them to help themselves to a big pile of CDs sitting
on a table. But none of the teens took any of the CDs, even though
they were free. "That was the moment we realised the game was
completely up," says a person who was there.

Given the years of declining revenues at the major labels and the
constant stream of stories in the mainstream press about music's
decline, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the music industry's
pallbearers are already lined up and waiting in the hallway. But music
isn't on its deathbed yet; in fact, people are listening to more
artists than ever before, on more white earbuds than ever before, in
more places than ever before. They're just not paying as much.

Don't put all the blame on file-swapping, either, or chalk the
problems up to an inability to "compete with free." Digital music
sales soared in 2007, and in fact, the total number of "units" moved
during the year increased over 2006. eMusic, the number two music
download service in the US behind iTunes, doubled its own projections
for the Christmas season, pushed out 10 million tracks in the month of
December, and added 50,000 new paying customers in the last six
months.

And all of this happened without the four major labels even offering
DRM-free tracks online. Now that Sony BMG has finally capitulated,
2008 is poised to be the year digital goes so mainstream that even
your parents use it.

All that good news means that music is alive and well—but it doesn't
mean that things are rosy at the major labels. Let's run the numbers
from 2007, then do a case study on eMusic's recent results to see just
what kind of success can be had in the digital download world by
competing with free.
Major label blues

Revenues at the four major labels (Warner, EMI, Sony BMG, and
Universal) have been on a slow decline throughout the decade. From
2002-2006, the majors' revenue declined by 11 percent even as movies
held steady at the box office and video games grew. Despite the
downturn, the chart below makes clear just how large the major label
music business truly is.

Data sources: RIAA, MPAA, The NPD Group

Things have gotten bad enough that the labels themselves are demanding
change even from their trade groups. EMI has recently been pushing
both the IFPI and RIAA to restructure their operations, for instance,
and all four labels have tried to adjust to a new world by dropping
DRM and launching innovative programs like "Comes With Music."

Is the downturn due to people not paying for music, though? Hardly;
it's due in large part to people not paying for CDs.

Again, looking at data from 2002-2006, we can see that CD sales have
seen sharp decreases in all but one year, with 2006 having the
sharpest drop of the bunch (2007 may have been worse).

Data source: RIAA

But unit sales have actually been rising over the last few years, with
2007 being another strong year. Reuters recently reported that overall
unit sales rose 14 percent in 2007, with digital sales jumping by 45
percent.

Data sources: RIAA, Nielsen Soundscan

What's happening is obvious; consumers are making far more purchases
than ever before, but are often choosing to grab only selected tracks
rather than complete albums. The album may not be dying in a general
way, but it has certainly lost its importance as the primary way that
buyers in the digital era get their music. Bands with a track record
of putting out uneven albums won't be able to milk that strategy for
massive profits anymore, nor will any labels that nurture such acts.

That has translated into a grim situation at the major labels. Time
Warner's stock price is down more than 70 percent from its IPO price
in 2005. EMI, recently acquired by private equity firm Terra Nova, was
appalled by some aspects of the business it had acquired. In a recent
interview with the Financial Times, new EMI boss Guy Hands asked
rhetorically, "Can you imagine what would happen if most consumer
industries over-shipped by 20 per cent? Can you imagine any consumer
industry having 10 per cent of employees as middle management? Can you
imagine only 6 per cent of staff in production?" Things are so bad
that EMI has been spending $50 million a year just to destroy CDs it
couldn't sell, a

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[Gautam John]

On Jan 23, 2008 12:15 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> the one you are proposing. Or do you think the Indian market is just
> suffering the same financial crisis  they've been in for decades?

That's the damn problem with the stock market. I'm not sure I'll ever
understand the thinking that goes on. There seem to be far too many
internal feedback loops and damnably opaque. Of course, it's possible
that I just don't get, IMHO.

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open Source Movement?

[Abhishek Hazra]

there are enough interesting artists in bangalore too. don't know if
you are already familiar with the following artist's
(below is a random, on the spur of the moment listing) will try and
give a more deatiled overview soon

01. Sheela Gowda (a big inspiration for many of us, must see, her
installation, "And tell him of my pain")
02. Ayisha Abraham (conceptual artist working with film, sound, video
- interesting audio piece, "Calling the nation")
03. Pushpamala (photography and performance - an entertaining and
critical body of work, "Native indian woman")
04. Kiran Subbaiah ( i really like his work - an fascinating hybridity
of objects, video, text-based stuff, net-art.
www.geocities.com/antikiran)
05. Avinash Veeraraghavan (interesting photo collages of the self and
the city - photo book, " I love my india")
06. Prabhavati M (subtle and minimal works on gessoed board)
07. Anup Mathew Thomas (doing a multi part photography based work on
kerala. has done some interesting work based on the National Library
in Lahore)
08. Surekha (video artists, feminist, explorations of gendered subject)
more soon...

On Jan 23, 2008 12:01 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2008 6:02 AM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > galleries, afford internet connections, etc. there are a huge number of
> > professional artists in india; they are less likely to live in cities or
> > speak english or find space in galleries or have internet connections,
>
> Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point me at some of them, preferably
> within a day's drive of Bangalore? I have so far been unable to locate
> any, and would welcome any pointers.
>
> -- Charles
>
>



-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
does the frog know it has a latin name?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[Charles Haynes]

On Jan 23, 2008 7:48 AM, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 22 Jan 2008 8:19 pm, Gautam John wrote:

> > the world is facing
> > the worst financial crisis since World War II

> As usual, "World" means the US of A. Other countries don't count and might not
> suffer any worse a financial crisis than they have been in for decades.

I think George Soros knows what "world" means and uses the word precisely...

The indian markets seem to reflect that possibility too, rather than
the one you are proposing. Or do you think the Indian market is just
suffering the same financial crisis  they've been in for decades?

-- Charles

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the OpenSourceMovement?

[Gautam John]

On Jan 23, 2008 12:12 PM, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> How familiar are you with innovation

Speaking of innovation in India, I happened to be reading this:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/01/20/third_world_first/?page=full

(tech related)

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the OpenSourceMovement?

[Charles Haynes]

On Jan 23, 2008 6:29 AM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 13:25 +0530, Charles Haynes wrote:
> > How much innovation is happening in dance and music? Is it like
> > western classical music where there are rigorous requirements on how
> > to do it "right" with years of practice required to get to the point
> > where you are "expressing yourself" rather than "doing it wrong?" I've
>
> the notion that innovation in art (as opposed to technology) is
> necessarily a good thing and a reflection of creativity is a peculiarly
> western one,

How familiar are you with innovation in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean
art? I find your claim that valuing innovation is a western value
curious given what I know about other non-western art forms. Further,
I do see vibrant innovation in other areas of Indian art - bhangra for
example - just not in Indian visual arts, and I'm curious about any
theories why, or being educated as to how it's there but I'm not aware
of it.

-- Charles

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open Source Movement?

[Charles Haynes]

On Jan 23, 2008 6:02 AM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> galleries, afford internet connections, etc. there are a huge number of
> professional artists in india; they are less likely to live in cities or
> speak english or find space in galleries or have internet connections,

Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE point me at some of them, preferably
within a day's drive of Bangalore? I have so far been unable to locate
any, and would welcome any pointers.

-- Charles

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Lets put it this way. The average fat, overfed gujju sheth (and the average
deep south redneck with a rusting chevy in his backyard + a shotgun rack
made of deer horns) is deeply racist.  And hopelessly inadequate at a
variety of things.

Playing, and pandering, to their inadequacy, and creating a common enemy for
them to blame all the bad stuff that's happening to them on, is a time
honored old trick.

The jews through the last several centuries in Europe, for example, had the
misfortune to be cast as this kind of common enemy

Both those groups deserve exactly the kind of leader that they got now.

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[shiv sastry]

On Wednesday 23 Jan 2008 9:12 am, Dave Kumar wrote:
> On the subject of this thread, though, there's no question that a
> significant chunk of the country -- the people from places like Florence
> who aren't accustomed to diversity -- is paranoid, and their reactions end
> up influencing policies and happenings since the paranoid are always louder
> than the non-paranoid. And it also true that too many in this country are
> apathetic, and don't do enough to fight the paranoia because it doesn't
> affect people "like them."

In this connection, let me cross post an article from my alumni website 
(maintained by silk-lister Shyam). I have not taken the author's permission 
but I know him personally and will just let it be known that he writes well 
and goes by the name Bhatta.
---

An Inconvenient Chooth**


Perhaps I look at things in life quite differently from my peers and fellow 
men. Perhaps I just have a twisted perception of reality. But a small voice 
inside of me keeps telling me that I might actually be the one that gets it 
right, for it seems to me that the vast majority of people either see what is 
the most socially convenient version of events or worse still, let someone 
else (i.e. The Media) do the thinking for them.  Right now, events are 
unfolding, that to me, define a certain change in the psyches of various 
Nations around the world, yet some of them have occurred with hardly a ripple 
both in the mainstream media as well as in the internet blogsphere.

Yes folks, I am talking about the re-election of Narendra Modi as the chief 
minister of Gujarat. An unexpected event to a large measure, for he had been 
written off by the main stream media in India in contemptuous terms and 
pretty much ostracized by the world media as some kind of unrepentant bigot.   
After all wasn't he the notable Indian who was denied a visitors visa to the 
USA to address the Gujarat Sammelan  while his arch nemesis General Pervez 
Musharraf was welcomed as a noble guest of the Bush administration??  You 
would think that the re-election of such a polarizing figure would draw 
attention from the mainstream media if not the bleeding heart left wing 
liberals but surprisingly this event has got as little attention as (by way 
of contrast) the enormous barrage of attention that his government got during 
the Godhra incident and the Gujarat riots. Strange that a person could be the 
central figure of two separate but related incidents, yet one generate so 
much attention while the other so little. Why is this so?? I have my own 
theories that tie in with other observations of recent world events to the 
point that there appears to me some predictability in the pattern of these 
events. 

Allow me then to elaborate on this.

To begin let me say that to get a real perspective of my point of view I need 
you, gentle reader, to do two things. And yes, both of these things are 
essential if you want to see what I see. In some ways the analogy is like 
squinting down the sights of an old three naught three rifle, without the 
benefit of a snipers scope or night vision sights. Unless you are really 
aligned to line up your target in your sights yourself, you will never be on 
mark. Hence, if you do not acquiesce to the two preconditions that I want, I 
feel that you will never see my point of view.

The first is to distance yourself from both your political and religious bias 
and leanings until you have heard my thesis and argument in its completion. 
The moment you leap in (in your own mind as you read down these lines) to 
interrupt your own edification, spurred on by an instinctive reaction from 
your bias, you will have missed the point that I am trying to make. When you 
react midway through my argument, it is not only interruption to the seamless 
intake of my point of view, but also the fact that you have already decided 
on a contrarian argument and you are in no state to really contemplate what I 
have to say. The second is that I want you to see this event in the context 
of an evolving timeline of events. Things are what they are and although they 
have their own independent value and worth, it is their worth and importance 
in how they fit into the larger scheme of things that matter most.  When you 
focus down just on the specifics of Godhra and Gujarat, murder and Modi you 
fail to see how these events are woven into the broader tapestry of the 
social fabric of the Nation that is still emerging from the ever humming 
looms of our political and religious ideology. And trust me dear reader, our 
Nation and our people are defined not just by the pattern of the tapestry but 
also by the quality of the looms that weave the designs.

Having swiftly moved through this preamble I will ask you to take yourself 
back in your mind to 1998. Although you and I probably never saw the import 
of this particular year in the world events that followed, I think that it 
was of monument

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Biju Chacko]

On Jan 23, 2008 9:28 AM, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 Jan 2008 7:36 am, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> > I have every hope that Valsa was being sarcastic.
>
> No personal offence intended, but it seemed to me that Valsa Williams was
> stating an opinion. Why would anyone want to hope that the opinion was
> sarcastic?

Calling Valsa sarcastic is probably less offensive than calling her
naive -- which was *my* reaction (no offense meant).

-- b

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[shiv sastry]

On Wednesday 23 Jan 2008 7:14 am, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote:
> most of europe is christian, a higher proportion than india is hindu,
> and has fewer linguistic divisions than india (including only 3 written
> scripts) - but there are 30+ countries (yes, despite the "ever closer"
> Union).


I see this (perfectly true) statement as a summary of some really deep and 
complex historic and social and cultural dynamics. 

Most of Europe being Christian is the result of both Christianity (and Islam) 
being practised as "Only me and nobody else" religions.

(On a another note - I am note I am not at all sure that the Christianity I 
learned in school in India is the same adversarial Roman Christianity that 
overran Europe.)

When Islam plundered through vast areas of Europe, Christianity bounced back 
and virtually eliminated Islam, just as Islam had eliminated all other faiths 
in most of the lands that it overran.

But Christianity in Europe split into various factions that fought and fought 
and fought and fought until Europe became tired and eventually came up with 
the treaty of Westphalia. That helped create "secularism" which means absence 
of religion, but in practice it means separation of Church from state, with 
the government (state) being secular.

But even a "common religion" (of many factions) did not stop internecine 
European conflict. Europe battered itself out of world domination and handed 
the baton to the US.

India, with less commonality of religion and more linguistic variety is seen 
as fissionable based on a Euro-centric view of what lack of common religion 
or common language should normally do to a land area based on the European 
experience.

Valid as this argument may sound, this makes no effort whatsoever to check if 
there could possibly be other shared traits that have not been picked up by 
an essentially Euro-centric view of society, religion and nations.

The fact is that such a commonality was repeatedly recognised and picked up 
and utilized by Shankaracharya, Viveknanda, Mahatma Gandhi and Aurobindo 
among others. But these names mean little or nothing from the viewpoint of 
the school education that Indian children get. Hence Indians go through life 
imagining that there is nothing unifying in India.

shiv

Re: [silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote:

| I'm Sirtaj Singh Kang, I live in New Delhi where I write software,

Wah Taj !!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHlr99XQZpNTcrCzMRAl3HAJkBYt8qmU7242D2F5yc+GyhI389xACfSQOK
fqH1orWDRGgobRznEfo2/yg=
=XTJx
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Re: [silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Biju Chacko]

On Jan 23, 2008 3:01 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I guess what I am trying to say is, hello.

Welcome.

-- b

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[shiv sastry]

On Wednesday 23 Jan 2008 7:36 am, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> I have every hope that Valsa was being sarcastic.

No personal offence intended, but it seemed to me that Valsa Williams was 
stating an opinion. Why would anyone want to hope that the opinion was 
sarcastic?

Is it part of the Indian psyche of being modest that demands self deprecation 
when confronted with praise?

As I frequently encounter in Bangalore:

"Congratulations!!"

"No No. Yella nimma daya. Nammadu enu illa" (No No. It is YOUR blessings that 
work, no effort from me"

Hindus follow a form of dharma that teaches them, from childhood, to avoid 
great celebration of that which is good, and equally avoid great sorrow and 
disappointment at that which is bad. That dharma also actively advises 
against "ahankar" i.e conceit or pride.

So Indian (Hindu) reaction to praise is often a counter quote of something 
negative so that karmic forces of good and bad are balanced.

shiv

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Dave Kumar]

On Jan 21, 2008 9:24 AM, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A chap with the name "Ramak Fazel" with an "untraceable accent" (i.eFurriner
> of unknown origin) is a "quintessential world citizen". What's that? Who's
> deluding whom?
>
> Tell me another one.
>
> [snip]
>
> It is easy to spot an alien from a mile. Hair color, facial structure and
> other things stand out from a zillion miles away.
>
> For those of us who have actually lived in the US, it is important to
remember that the USA is a pretty diverse place. There are many parts of the
US -- most big cities, and definitely the part of DC in which I live and
work, where someone like Ramak wouldn't feel very alien at all. My
neighborhood has whites, blacks, asians, desis, tons of Ethiopians, people
from Arab countries, etc. No one feels out of place -- except, perhaps, what
some people might view as stereotypical "Americans."

This week, however, I'm in Florence, South Carolina, volunteering for the
Obama campaign. Out here, there are white people (and they are Republicans)
and black people (and they are Democrats). There's barely a desi or Asian
person in sight, and someone like Ramak would feel quite out of place
indeed.

But both DC and Florence are part of the US, and it is hard to say that one
is more "typical" than the other.

On the subject of this thread, though, there's no question that a
significant chunk of the country -- the people from places like Florence who
aren't accustomed to diversity -- is paranoid, and their reactions end up
influencing policies and happenings since the paranoid are always louder
than the non-paranoid. And it also true that too many in this country are
apathetic, and don't do enough to fight the paranoia because it doesn't
affect people "like them."

Dave

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Thaths]

On Jan 22, 2008 2:51 PM, Valsa Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> India is one of the safest countries. I have traveled all over and even my
> friends from overseas seem to think the same. I am a South Indian Christian,
> living in the North for many years (minority). I have  friends from all
> communities.  In India, we   treat foreigners visiting our country with
> respect and this comes from humble, traditional customs.

Since Valsa does not explicitly mention that sarcasm is intended, I
will assume that it was not.

Unless you include groping in public transport, propositioning
intercourse with white "loose moral-ed" strangers, leering, waving the
male member in the direction of white women, fleecing a tourist,
calling black foreigners monkeys etc. as part of our ancient tradition
of "treating foreigners visiting our country with respect", I have to
disagree.

> Of course, there are and will be exceptions to the rule !

At least two of the indignities I mentioned above have happened to
every one of my non-India friends (black, white and "wheatish"
complexioned) traveling in India.

> The US on the other hand is a rich country where people have grown up with a
> blinded, selfish view. Most of the citizens are unaware of different
> countries, races, religions, customs etc. They are so clued into their own
> lives and fail to look outwards.  There had to be a war for them to know
> about a country called Afghanistan.  Most of the mistakes they make come
> from this ignorance.
> And of course, there are exceptions and some wonderful people there too  !

I am curious, if you are not being sarcastic, have you traveled in the
US? For how long and in which parts?

Thaths

>
> Valsa
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2008 4:53 PM, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 09:57:02AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
> >
> > > Stories such as this *certainly* affect my (already reluctant and as
> > > infrequent as possible) travels to the US. When you add officially
> >
> > I boykott visiting the US. Haven't done for 6-7 years.
> > If I had a business to take elsewhere, I would do it.
> >
> > That country needs a wake-up call.
> >
> > > sanctioned harrassment to jet lag, airline food and zombie-like
> > > wanderings through the innards of airports, it suddenly seems not
> > > worth it at all.
> >
> > --
> > Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org
> > __
> > ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
> > 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> >
> >
>



-- 
Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip.
Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son.
Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Thaths]

On Jan 22, 2008 2:09 PM, Srini Ramakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Chinese in America figured that one out long ago, hence the
> American-sounding "Christian" names.

I always thought this was because of the atrocious, a-tonal
pronunciation meted out to chinese names that made the Chinese
immigrants (both fresh off the boat and those Americans born to Asian
parents) chose western names. Besides, I doubt if Steve Tang or
Calione Wu can do such a good job passing for WASPs with their family
names.

Thaths
-- 
Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip.
Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son.
Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders

Re: [silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Deepa Mohan]

On Jan 23, 2008 3:01 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since it dawned on me that I probably know about half the peope on this
> list I've accepted a long-standing, throw-away invitation from Abhijit
> to sign up. I've been reading some of the stuff you folks have come up
> with over the last few days and I must say for such a high-traffic list
> you really keep the signal level high.
> I'm Sirtaj Singh Kang,
> I guess what I am trying to say is, hello.
>
> -Taj.

Wah, Taj! Welcome,Sir!


Deepa.


> I'm Sirtaj Singh Kang, I live in New Delhi where I write software,
> I spend far too much time at my computer (and I believe I'm in good
> company on this list) and there is a very real likelihood that I suffer
> from a serious information addiction. I have a poorly-maintained website
> at http://sirtaj.net/ - I no longer believe it accurately represents me
> in any useful way, but it's the only one I have.
>
> I guess what I am trying to say is, hello.
>
> -Taj.
>
>
>

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[shiv sastry]

On Tuesday 22 Jan 2008 8:19 pm, Gautam John wrote:
> the world is facing
> the worst financial crisis since World War II


As usual, "World" means the US of A. Other countries don't count and might not 
suffer any worse a financial crisis than they have been in for decades.

shiv

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Abhijit Menon-Sen]

At 2008-01-23 03:02:42 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > In India, we treat foreigners visiting our country with
> > respect and this comes from humble, traditional customs.
> 
> i've heard too many horror stories from white women travelling alone
> in india to believe that...

Oh, they're all exceptions.

-- ams

Re: [silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

welcome to silklist, taj... i had a cobwebsite for a long time at
dxm.org, then after 10+ years i finally decided that i don't need to put
content there when i can have the one of the world's richest companies
do it for me, and dxm now just redirects to a google search for my
name. 

you could definitely do the same :-)


On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 03:01 +0530, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote:
> from a serious information addiction. I have a poorly-maintained website
> at http://sirtaj.net/ - I no longer believe it accurately represents me
> in any useful way, but it's the only one I have.

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Rishab Aiyer Ghosh [23/01/08 03:02 +0100]:


On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 14:51 +0530, Valsa Williams wrote:

communities.  In India, we   treat foreigners visiting our country with
respect and this comes from humble, traditional customs.


i've heard too many horror stories from white women travelling alone in
india to believe that...



I have every hope that Valsa was being sarcastic. That sounds more like a
tourism poster from the "India Shining" campaign (or is it India shitting,
from what tourists would see every morning on the train tracks approaching
bombay) :)

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 14:51 +0530, Valsa Williams wrote:
> communities.  In India, we   treat foreigners visiting our country with
> respect and this comes from humble, traditional customs.

i've heard too many horror stories from white women travelling alone in
india to believe that...

-rishab

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

well, again, there's discrimination and discrimination. the harvard
study found that "white" names got 50% more responses than "black" ones.
the french study [1] found that "french" names got TEN TIMES as many
responses as north-african-sounding ones. more evidence of the
relatively high acceptance of diversity in the US.

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 13:45 +0530, Thaths wrote:
> PS: http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf
> (Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field
> Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination) is an excellent paper

-rishab

1. http://www.francetoday.com/articles/news/10.28.2004.html

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:43 +0530, Venkat Mangudi wrote:
> What has been your experience with Yank Sing ( the dim sum place near 
> Market St, next to the WF bldg)?

on stephenson... also a "YAY!!!"

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:40 +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> I would rate India as very similar to China and Japan on most gender issues.
> Gays / transsexuals etc? 

japan is pretty bad, the molestation-on-trains stories are shocking for
a "developed" country, but perhaps thanks to communism women have a much
better position in china i think than in india.

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

can't let a mention of shalimar (only jones and o'farrell) go by without
saying "YAY!!! AWESOME!"

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:28 +0530, Charles Haynes wrote:
> visit after dark. [Though the best Pakistani-style food (Shalimar) is
> in a slightly
> sketchy neigborhood (Jones and O'Farrell) and I visit there regularly
> 

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:26 +0530, shiv sastry wrote:
> That apart,  there is a lot binding the country together. There is a "British 
> take" that has a tendency to discount the role of the majority Hindu 
> community in India in actually giving a sense of oneness despite the often 
> quoted divisive issues (that are a leaf taken out from what the British 
> described)

most of europe is christian, a higher proportion than india is hindu,
and has fewer linguistic divisions than india (including only 3 written
scripts) - but there are 30+ countries (yes, despite the "ever closer"
Union).

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open SourceMovement?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Rishab Aiyer Ghosh [23/01/08 01:41 +0100]:


On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 10:30 +0530, shiv sastry wrote:
There is no money in creativity in India. If creativity brings in the moolah, 
the artists will come in. 


[maslow's hierarchy of needs based explanation]

People with MBAs from far better schools than mine, who actually do
practice management (I forgot most of mine already) assure me that Maslow's
hierarchy is a throwback to the 50s, debunked / replaced by better theories
many times over etc.

It is still simple and elegant enough for me to like it a lot.

Glad to see I'm not alone

srs

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of theOpenSourceMovement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 19:16 +0530, shiv sastry wrote:
> There is every reason for me to believe that art coming out of India is 
> likely 
> to dominate large parts of the world in the same manner that say Hollywood or 
> Western pop music have had their day in the sun. it is only a question of 
> time and numbers. I believe I am living at a time when the explosion has just 
> begun.

i was amazed 2 weeks ago in berlin to see the grungy arty locality of
kreuzberg plastered with posters for the "meena club" [1] which doesn't
just have a bollywood night - as many places in europe do nowadays every
so often - but is a full-time bollywood dance club. and it's the germans
dancing there.

1. http://www.meena-club.de/

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the OpenSourceMovement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 13:25 +0530, Charles Haynes wrote:
> How much innovation is happening in dance and music? Is it like
> western classical music where there are rigorous requirements on how
> to do it "right" with years of practice required to get to the point
> where you are "expressing yourself" rather than "doing it wrong?" I've

the notion that innovation in art (as opposed to technology) is
necessarily a good thing and a reflection of creativity is a peculiarly
western one, resulting perhaps from a boredom with or a rejection of
classical traditions. many other cultures have different values that are
certainly no less supportive of art. there are probably far more
starving artists in india than in the US and europe, which would show
that the need for creative expression is hardly lower in india; simply
that people in the west have more money to spend on everything from
icecream [1] to art.

you don't have to look far back in US or european history to find
parental and social attitudes to professions exactly the same as those
of today's bangalore professionals. the change in the west is directly a
result of greater material wealth.

-rishab
1. europe spent $11 billion in 2004 on ice cream; rich mostly western
passengers spent $14 billion on ocean cruises; but clean drinking water
for everyone on the planet would cost $10 billion -
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1784#a2

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open SourceMovement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 11:11 +0530, Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote:
> Isn't it equally de rigueur for them to stop dancing once they're older
> and/or on the verge of getting married, because it's not respectable for
> marriageable and married young women to be dancing?

... unless they're really good and famous and can earn significant
amounts of money...

all of which makes perfect economic sense. indian society certainly
values art, but there isn't enough material wealth going around to allow
all the people who value art to actually earn a decent living out of it,
so once they need to earn a living all but the best have to stop their
art.

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open SourceMovement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 10:40 +0530, Charles Haynes wrote:
> I'm not so sure - see "patronage" above. I think it requires a culture
> that appreciate and values art.

and affords.

there's lots of patronage of indian art, of course. at the rich, urban
level, concerts and art galleries and so forth are all sponsored by big
companies, foundations and other private and public wealth. at the
poorer, rural level, village musicians are paid to perform at festive
occasions.

but there are lots of people in india, and patronage only works for a
small minority, as a form of spending of surplus wealth.

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open SourceMovement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 10:30 +0530, shiv sastry wrote:
> There is no money in creativity in India. If creativity brings in the moolah, 
> the artists will come in. 

i don't see this as being different from europe and the US. i don't see
many US or european artists (or open source programmers) suffering from
a lack of safety or physiological needs (to use maslow's language [1]),
which is a pretty real risk for an ordinary indian urban professional's
kid (let alone someone not as well off in india) who decides not to get
a "real job".

> India's open source boom will come when the early whiz kids of the
Infotech 
> generation retire after fulfilling their Hindu duties and reach the sannyasa 
> stage. They will then become productive in contributing to open source.

even when open source in europe and the US was less "professionalised"
than it is now, the FLOSS survey [2] found that people who were married
and/or had children and were _still_ floss developers had a healthy
income and earned their living from their floss work. to use the hindu
terminology, US and european open source developers are either:

- brahmacharis (students), where they participate in open source
development as part of their brahmachari training (learning and
developing new skills is the #1 cited motivation for participation [3]); -

- grihastas ("home-makers"), where they have partners / are married /
have children and participate in open source development but earn a
living from it

- sannyasis ("saints") like richard stallman, who've gone beyond meeting
their lower level maslow needs and are only interested in
self-actualisation.


-rishab

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
2. http://flossproject.org/report/Final4.htm
3. http://flosspols.org/deliverables/D10HTML/FLOSSPOLS-D10-skills%
20survey_interim_report-revision-FINAL.html

Re: [silk] Will India Become the New Vanguard of the Open Source Movement?

[Rishab Aiyer Ghosh]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 09:39 +0530, Charles Haynes wrote:
> in the US. In the US many of my friends were artists, either full or
> part time. Here, I don't see that so much - and I've actively sought
> out artists here. I can easily see my children going into the arts,
> but I don't see the same sort of attitude or possibility here for kids
> of most techies or other professionals. 

i think this is probably due to wage differentials being smaller in the
US (and certainly in europe - e.g. the netherlands pays many artists
just for existing, which some dutch artists have blamed for the
supposedly low quality of dutch art). your full time artist friends were
probably managing to pay the rent, find occasional display space in art
galleries, afford internet connections, etc. there are a huge number of
professional artists in india; they are less likely to live in cities or
speak english or find space in galleries or have internet connections,
since all this costs more money than they would normally earn. no wonder
techies and other professionals would prefer that their kids avoid this.

economically rich societies are more easily able to afford luxuries such
as "altruistic" art - which is altruistic in the economic sense only if
they truly are "starving artists". it's patronage, whether in the form
of state support in most european countries, or private patronage in the
US (explicit, or implicit through more people spending more money on
art).

> Could the earning pressures also be different? Is there less tendency
> to measure success solely by how much money you make?

a society where people make enough money has the luxury of deprecating
its importance. this is similar to how increasing levels of comfort
provide people with the time, space and (despite being otherwise
intelligent) naivete to worry much more about the environment and global
warming rather than, say, access to clean water and the prevention of
diarrhoea and malaria. it's all about maslow's hierarchy of needs!

-rishab

[silk] New Lurker Introduction

[Sirtaj Singh Kang]

Since it dawned on me that I probably know about half the peope on this
list I've accepted a long-standing, throw-away invitation from Abhijit
to sign up. I've been reading some of the stuff you folks have come up
with over the last few days and I must say for such a high-traffic list
you really keep the signal level high.

I'm Sirtaj Singh Kang, I live in New Delhi where I write software,
I spend far too much time at my computer (and I believe I'm in good
company on this list) and there is a very real likelihood that I suffer
from a serious information addiction. I have a poorly-maintained website
at http://sirtaj.net/ - I no longer believe it accurately represents me
in any useful way, but it's the only one I have.

I guess what I am trying to say is, hello.

-Taj.

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[Srini Ramakrishnan]

On Jan 22, 2008 8:19 PM, Gautam John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> And Soros gets in on the act too...
>
> "With famed speculator George Soros saying that the world is facing
> the worst financial crisis since World War II, it's no wonder that
> ordinary investors are worried."

Them be fighting words...that sort of rhetoric will shake the markets
a lot. BTW, as is always the case I also know of a few people who made
money today. Sadly (happily?), I speculate a lot from the sidelines,
but I don't really put my money where my mouth is.

Cheeni

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 08:19:23PM +0530, Gautam John wrote:
> So the "Fed cuts rates 75 basis points in emergency move."
> 
> What exactly does this mean for the melting markets, is it, in any
> way, a tacit acknowledgment that markets are up shit creek and that
> the rhetoric over the last few weeks was just that?

Yes.

Notice that the Fed can't do anything but to delay things.
They are not the good guys in the game.
 
> And Soros gets in on the act too...

If anyone is surprised, they should not be surprised.
Also, nothing really happened, yet.
 
> "With famed speculator George Soros saying that the world is facing
> the worst financial crisis since World War II, it's no wonder that
> ordinary investors are worried."
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2008/01/22/asia-stock-wrap-markets-equity-cx_vk_0122markets1.html
-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

Re: [silk] hmm, XVI

[Gautam John]

So the "Fed cuts rates 75 basis points in emergency move."

What exactly does this mean for the melting markets, is it, in any
way, a tacit acknowledgment that markets are up shit creek and that
the rhetoric over the last few weeks was just that?

And Soros gets in on the act too...

"With famed speculator George Soros saying that the world is facing
the worst financial crisis since World War II, it's no wonder that
ordinary investors are worried."

http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2008/01/22/asia-stock-wrap-markets-equity-cx_vk_0122markets1.html

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[shiv sastry]

On Tuesday 22 Jan 2008 8:14 am, Anish Mohammed wrote:
> Having anti-shia clashes in Muharram, should not be suprising. Muharram is
> seen by one of the parties where thier rightful leader was killed by the
> deviants.

In this connection:

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/\papers26\paper2561.html

shiv

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[shiv sastry]

On Tuesday 22 Jan 2008 1:45 pm, Thaths wrote:
> Pray tell us what comes to your mind when you hear the name Kareem Abdul
> Jabbar.

Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor?

shiv
 

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[ashok _]

On Jan 22, 2008 11:29 AM, Charles Haynes wrote:
>
> > Richard Burton (who translated the Kamasutra among other things)
>
> I have a complete set of the Burton "Thousand Nights and a Night." I
> like to tell people that the thin volume of "Arabian Nights" one sees
> as a kid are only the "clean" stories, and that Scheherezade did not
> entertain a horny king for three years with kiddie stories - the

I would also recommend his other books about travels in east africa ...
('first footsteps in east africa' is one... and a couple of other books about
the eastern congo and lower nile regionssome out of print...)
He is indeed a bizarre character amid all the gratuitous shooting, maiming and
plunder he also scientifically measures the dimensions of the private parts of
varioustribal groups he meets ... and then while visiting lamu conducts a test
of a local theory that a circumcised woman is better in bed and so on

theres also the book about Goa and the malabar coast which is quite interesting.

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Dave Long]

There had to be a war for them to know...


Q. Why would an omnipotent god allow suffering and evil in general,  
and war in particular?

A. Wars are His way of teaching Geography to Americans.

-Dave

(ex-pat for 1 kday and counting)

Re: [silk] paging Bangalore Linux users

[Venkat Mangudi]

I will write to him and get in touch with him directly.

Venkat

Eugen Leitl wrote:
A well-known critical care practicioner 
Prasanna Simha M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> from Bangalore

is really trying to get on the Linux train, but sometimes
runs into issues. It would be really nice if any of you
who're in Bangalore and in touch with the local Linux
(Ubuntu?) scene could hook him up with some local help.

Re: [silk] Do you think Ubuntu is dead?

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 02:58:24PM +0530, Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote:

> I just installed Ubuntu 7.10 on my mother's Thinkpad X60S. Apart from a
> bit of juggling required to install from a USB stick (no external CDROM)
> everything worked fine by default, and she (having been after me to help
> her install it for some time) is now very happy.

Do you have the graphics acceleration on? X is crashing on me
several times a week. Temporary freezes (up to several minutes)
are also common. If the LTS due in April still has this issues,
I definitely need to think about going Debian on the desktop.

With KDE 4.0 I finally don't have to barf at the graphical design. 
Maybe ditching Gnome is next.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

[silk] The gig is up?

[Udhay Shankar N]

The first paragraph is the best bit, for me.

Udhay

http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10498664

The music industry
From major to minor

Jan 10th 2008
From The Economist print edition
Last year was terrible for the recorded-music majors. The next few years 
are likely to be even worse


IN 2006 EMI, the world's fourth-biggest recorded-music company, invited 
some teenagers into its headquarters in London to talk to its top 
managers about their listening habits. At the end of the session the EMI 
bosses thanked them for their comments and told them to help themselves 
to a big pile of CDs sitting on a table. But none of the teens took any 
of the CDs, even though they were free. “That was the moment we realised 
the game was completely up,” says a person who was there.


In public, of course, music executives continued to talk a good game: 
recovery was just around the corner, they argued, and digital downloads 
would rescue the music business. But the results from 2007 confirm what 
EMI's focus group showed: that the record industry's main product, the 
CD, which in 2006 accounted for over 80% of total global sales, is 
rapidly fading away. In America, according to Nielsen SoundScan, the 
volume of physical albums sold dropped by 19% in 2007 from the year 
before—faster than anyone had expected. For the first half of 2007, 
sales of music on CD and other physical formats fell by 6% in Britain, 
by 9% in Japan, France and Spain, by 12% in Italy, 14% in Australia and 
21% in Canada. (Sales were flat in Germany.) Paid digital downloads grew 
rapidly, but did not begin to make up for the loss of revenue from CDs. 
More worryingly for the industry, the growth of digital downloads 
appears to be slowing.


“In 2007 it became clear that the recorded-music industry is contracting 
and that it will be a very different beast from what it was in the 20th 
century,” says Mark Mulligan, an analyst at JupiterResearch. Last year 
several big-name artists bypassed the record labels altogether. Madonna 
left Warner Music to strike a deal with Live Nation, a concert promoter, 
and the Eagles distributed a bestselling album in America without any 
help from a record label. Radiohead, a British band, deserted EMI to 
release an album over the internet. These were isolated, unusual deals, 
by artists whose careers had already brought years of profits to the big 
music companies. But they made the labels look irrelevant and will no 
doubt prompt other artists to think about leaving them too.


The smallest major labels, EMI and Warner Music, are struggling most 
visibly. Warner Music's share price has fallen to $4.75, 72% lower than 
its IPO price in 2005, and it is weighed down by debt. EMI's new 
private-equity owner, Terra Firma, paid a high price for the business in 
August 2007. Now, having got rid of most of EMI's senior managers and 
revealed embarrassing details of their spending habits (£200,000 a year 
went on sundries euphemistically referred to in the music business as 
“fruit and flowers”), Terra Firma is due to produce a new strategy later 
this month. But many observers reckon the private-equity men are out of 
their depth.


The two biggest majors—Universal, which is owned by Vivendi, a French 
conglomerate, and Sony BMG, a joint venture between Sony and 
Bertelsmann, a German media firm—derive some protection from their 
parent companies. Universal is the strongest and is gaining market 
share. But people speculate that Bertelsmann may want to sell out to 
Sony next year.


Three vicious circles have now set in for the recorded-music firms. 
First, because sales of CDs are tumbling, big retailers such as Wal-Mart 
are cutting the amount of shelf-space they give to music, which in turn 
accelerates the decline. Richard Greenfield of Pali Research, an 
independent research firm, reckons that retail floor-space devoted to 
CDs in America will be cut by 30% or more in 2008. The pattern is likely 
to repeat itself elsewhere as sales fall.


Circular arguments

Second, because the majors are cutting costs severely, particularly at 
EMI and Warner Music, artists are receiving far less marketing and 
promotional support than before, which could prompt them to seek 
alternatives. “They've cut out the guts of middle managers and there are 
fewer people on the ground to promote records,” says Peter Mensch, 
manager of the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Shania Twain.


Third, record companies face such hostile conditions that their backers, 
whether private equity or corporations, are loth to spend the sums 
required to move into the bits of the music industry that are thriving, 
such as touring and merchandising. The majors are trying to strike 
“360-degree” deals with artists that grant them a share of these 
earnings. But even if artists agree to such deals, they will not hand 
over new rights unless they get better terms on recorded music, so the 
majors may not see much benefit overall. Tim Renn

Re: [silk] Do you think Ubuntu is dead?

[Abhijit Menon-Sen]

At 2008-01-08 19:03:42 +0530, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> But other than that, I'm perfectly happy, and I've found a replacement
> for OpenSUSE (which I used for many years, and which I recently ditched
> after the newest releases started to suck horribly).

I just installed Ubuntu 7.10 on my mother's Thinkpad X60S. Apart from a
bit of juggling required to install from a USB stick (no external CDROM)
everything worked fine by default, and she (having been after me to help
her install it for some time) is now very happy.

-- ams

Re: [silk] paging Bangalore Linux users

[Ashok Krish]

On Jan 22, 2008 1:36 PM, Udhay Shankar N <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> > A well-known critical care practicioner
> > Prasanna Simha M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> from Bangalore
> > is really trying to get on the Linux train, but sometimes
> > runs into issues.
>

Linux Mint  (Ubuntu based distro) is a complete
breeze to install, easier than Vista, and all the multimedia works fine out
of the box. The easiest, most intuitive install I've seen so far. Mostly
requires no additional help. I could guide him through skype, gtalk or phone
if necessary

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Valsa Williams]

India is one of the safest countries. I have traveled all over and even my
friends from overseas seem to think the same. I am a South Indian Christian,
living in the North for many years (minority). I have  friends from all
communities.  In India, we   treat foreigners visiting our country with
respect and this comes from humble, traditional customs.
Of course, there are and will be exceptions to the rule !
The US on the other hand is a rich country where people have grown up with a
blinded, selfish view. Most of the citizens are unaware of different
countries, races, religions, customs etc. They are so clued into their own
lives and fail to look outwards.  There had to be a war for them to know
about a country called Afghanistan.  Most of the mistakes they make come
from this ignorance.
And of course, there are exceptions and some wonderful people there too  !

Valsa

On Jan 21, 2008 4:53 PM, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 09:57:02AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
>
> > Stories such as this *certainly* affect my (already reluctant and as
> > infrequent as possible) travels to the US. When you add officially
>
> I boykott visiting the US. Haven't done for 6-7 years.
> If I had a business to take elsewhere, I would do it.
>
> That country needs a wake-up call.
>
> > sanctioned harrassment to jet lag, airline food and zombie-like
> > wanderings through the innards of airports, it suddenly seems not
> > worth it at all.
>
> --
> Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org
> __
> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
>
>

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Eugen Leitl]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 12:16:07AM -0800, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:

> >Precisely. What was your top post in response to?
>  
> umm.. probably in response to your top post?

Maybe TeeBeeDi is hazy on that 'illustration' concept.
You certainly aren't, are you?

It is interesting that it's precisely the top-posters
that invariably seize upon the opportunity of snark.

Perhaps the time of subtleness is past, and it's best
to take off, and nuke the site from orbit.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org
__
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Srini Ramakrishnan]

On Jan 22, 2008 1:45 PM, Thaths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> PS: http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf
> (Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field
> Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination) is an excellent paper

The Chinese in America figured that one out long ago, hence the
American-sounding "Christian" names. A friend in the US who is an
Indian Christian once dropped his Indian name from his resume when job
hunting and got more calls. Of course it didn't result in many
converts, you can't hide your skin color in a face-face interview.

Cheeni

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Charles Haynes wrote:

> I have a complete set of the Burton "Thousand Nights and a Night." I
> like to tell people that the thin volume of "Arabian Nights" one sees

So did I, so did I .. lost it somewhere or the other when moving house. 

Luckily Project Gutenberg has the full set too. If my eyes can stand reading
that much text off a monitor

> racy. I did get tired of navels "that could hold a dram of rare
> perfume" though - and I like curves! I consider Burton a role model,

Burton kind of edited those tales to make the sexy women in there HIS idea
of sexy.. and that kind of imagery is standard + an ancient ideal anyway, in
India as in Persia.

You want racy, see if you can't translate some of the long prayers in
Sanskrit that lots of people listen to and recite.  When praising a goddess
it is kind of de rigueur to mention that her breasts are massive, her waist
is thin etc etc. As poetic a way to say 36 24 36 as there can be.  And then
the other slokas that describe a goddess as "madhu preetha, maamsa ishta"
etc (that she likes wine and meat).  Kind of amusing when the person
reciting it would shrink from onions and garlic, and consider mushrooms "non
vegetarian"

srs

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Charles Haynes]

On Jan 22, 2008 1:45 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >something happens to rub my nose in it. Like a friend of a friend
> >mentioning that a good friend of his came out to his parents and was
> >killed by his father for it. I don't think I could ever be completely
>
> Go a bit more west .. the middle east. Even worse there.
> http://www.boycottdubai.org says it all - 16 year old french boy raped by
> Emirati men, one of whom was HIV positive.  And the authorities' first
> reaction seems to have been to try prosecute the kid for homosexuality. The
> police doctor who examined him was like "I know you are gay, you have a
> very large anus".

I'm familiar with the story, and frankly the whole "blame the victim"
attitude doesn't seem so different from what appears to happen to
women here when they complain about rape. For example the recent story
of the young woman who was supposedly kidnapped and held in a guest
house while being repeatedly raped. When she first complained to the
police she was ignored. When the press got it the police claimed there
was no report, then filed a report. Then they accused her of being a
sex worker. Finally she withdrew the case, under speculation that one
of the rapists was connected and had "fixed" things. I've seen other
similar reports of police being unsympathetic to rapes, blaming the
victim. In this case even if the "sex worker" smear wasn't made up as
an excuse for police inaction it should be irrelevant. It doesn't
matter if a person sometimes accepts money for sex, that doesn't mean
that kidnapping them and forcing them to have sex isn't rape. It is!
Yes, things are even worse in the gulf, but that doesn't make things
good here.

> Richard Burton (who translated the Kamasutra among other things)

I have a complete set of the Burton "Thousand Nights and a Night." I
like to tell people that the thin volume of "Arabian Nights" one sees
as a kid are only the "clean" stories, and that Scheherezade did not
entertain a horny king for three years with kiddie stories - the
complete set is about four shelf feel long, and most of them are quite
racy. I did get tired of navels "that could hold a dram of rare
perfume" though - and I like curves! I consider Burton a role model,
and curse the fact that so many of his papers were destroyed when he
died.

-- Charles

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Eugen Leitl [22/01/08 08:54 +0100]:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 07:30:11AM +0530, Tee BeeDi wrote:

Was this top post in response to something Ashok wrote?


Precisely. What was your top post in response to?
 
umm.. probably in response to your top post?

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Thaths]

On Jan 21, 2008 7:54 PM, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> By the time I was in medical college I used to look at and read about 500
> names of medical paper authors in 100+ references at the end of each chapter
> just to see if I could find any Indian name. I had learned to differentiate
> between English/American names, French, Italian  and Japanese names.

Doctor-ji,

Pray tell us what comes to your mind when you hear the name Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Thaths
PS: http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf
(Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field
Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination) is an excellent paper
-- 
Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip.
Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son.
Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders

Re: [silk] The US of A is officially paranoid.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Charles Haynes [22/01/08 13:22 +0530]:

ran into two cops walking the other way down Infantry Road and didn't
really know what to expect. I was more wary of them than I was of the
dogs, but they looked kind of alert when they first saw me then waved
me past, maybe when they saw I was a foreigner.


Well, anybody walking down an empty street at night gets sized up by cops -
anywhere in the world.


ability of women to work outside the home, but really it's not any
different from India. Similarly women face a definite "glass ceiling."


It is conspicuous - and fairly similar in most of asia


Gays / transsexuals etc? Well, yes there's a more than horrible track
record, especially if you are poor.  If you're rich and gay, well..
http://www.rediff.com/style/may/07sylvie.htm


But even that article illustrates the issues:


Precisely why I cited it. If the guy was poor and gay, well .. before he
died of AIDS from unprotected and unsafe sex, street thugs gang raping him
for the fun of it (still considering themselves macho + heterosexual) .. he
wouldnt have that pleasant a time. Kind of like that old joke about the
difference between "crazy" and "eccentric" being a big wad of money.


something happens to rub my nose in it. Like a friend of a friend
mentioning that a good friend of his came out to his parents and was
killed by his father for it. I don't think I could ever be completely


Go a bit more west .. the middle east. Even worse there.
http://www.boycottdubai.org says it all - 16 year old french boy raped by
Emirati men, one of whom was HIV positive.  And the authorities' first
reaction seems to have been to try prosecute the kid for homosexuality. The
police doctor who examined him was like "I know you are gay, you have a
very large anus".

Out there, they seem to regard "being on top" type men as macho, whether
the bottom is a man or a woman. And even among heterosexuals, anal sex is
quite common there, possibly thanks to the high value placed on virginity,
the chance of a blood feud with the girl's family always present etc.

Richard Burton (who translated the Kamasutra among other things) had this
theory about a so-called "sotadic zone" - a broad band of countries where
homosexuality was either popularly practiced or even in some cases socially
accepted (japanese nanshoku, greeks with their erastes / onamos concept
that combined homosexual love with a mentor + student relationship, for
example).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotadic_zone


What has been your experience with Yank Sing ( the dim sum place near
Market St, next to the WF bldg)?

sum. We also go to Hong Kong Flower Lounge down in Millbrae for really
authentic dim sum (but go early or be prepared to wait for hours) and


I will vouch for HK FLower myself, in fact prefer it over Yank Sing. The
service is top notch, besides the food being amazing.

suresh

Re: [silk] paging Bangalore Linux users

[Udhay Shankar N]

Eugen Leitl wrote:

A well-known critical care practicioner 
Prasanna Simha M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> from Bangalore

is really trying to get on the Linux train, but sometimes
runs into issues. It would be really nice if any of you
who're in Bangalore and in touch with the local Linux
(Ubuntu?) scene could hook him up with some local help.


He should probably hook up with the Bangalore LUG - which, though highly 
political, does have various helpful folks. 


Udhay

Re: [silk] FBI buries docs showing US officials stole nuke secrets?

[Thaths]

On Jan 21, 2008 6:46 AM, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Winning the cold war was paramount, and getting China on the side of the US
> using Pakistan as pimp was more important than nuclear safety concerns.

Ummm. The detente in US-China relationship goes back to Nixon's time
(late 70's). While it is true that Pakistani bureaucrats played
chaperon in thawing the relationship, there is no evidence I am
familiar about the price for this role was nuclear technology
transfer. There is also ample evidence that since Mao and Nixon jumped
so gladly into bed, there has been little need for a chaperon.

My Occam's Radar picks up a blip in the direction of China undermining
India's influence in the region by supporting Pakistan.

Thaths
-- 
Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip.
Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son.
Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders