CSE-mail change?
Hi, How do I change my email address for this group? Thank you. Hank -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSE-mail change
Well thanks, when I got this back it had the directions at the bottom, The letters I looked at didn't have them down there. I got it changed now. Hi, How do I change my email address for this group? Thank you. Hank -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com Yours Hank. http://hdka.myecom.net/ct/ct.htm http://hdka.myecom.net/ http://www.goingplatinum.com/member/hdka http://www.victorthorn.com/babel/issue71/wing2.html
Re: CSNewbie/Particle/dediff/$$
Hi Rod; To find more info on CS and healing try going to http://www.silverlon.com/ where you'll find a lot of peer reviewed studies - particularly (Oops!) - on cell dedifferentiation and healing of deep wounds and third degree burns. Rod Stevenson wrote: Johnny Silverseed wrote (snip) Ionic is new on the silver scene, relatively speaking. For years those lettered researchers in the know touted only yellow to gold in coloration knowing that clear silver was molecular i.e...bad. So if smaller(ionic) is better- why have so many testimonials been given unto me after the ingestion of yellow c/s? It seems they both work to stop disease organisms from ravaging the body. BUT- does ionic (clear) silver have the same effects of cellular dedifferentiation? Does it stop cancers, scar tissue and God knows what else. I have a few questions about the above statements. How did these 'lettered researchers' know that ionic/molecular was bad, as you put it? Especially if, 'relatively speaking it's new on the scene'. How new? I've only been reading around the subject for about a year or so-but I don't remember seeing anything about negative results on ionic silver tests/trials etc. Are there any? The only time I've seen anything about cell dediff' was in 'The Body Electric' Robert Becker. I think I'm right in saying that he used iontophoresis No, Becker used micro - actually nano - currents. And in one case, a silver electrode to drive silver ions into the area of a deep wound; actually a broken bone which had refused to heal for two years due to infection. The electrode was placed into one of the holes left by the unsuccessful attempt to stabilize the break with plate and screws. The electrode and current were applied just one time, for considerably less than an hour I believe, and by the next week all signs of infection from the four or five different bacteria which had resisted all antibiotics for two years previous - were gone. Bone infections are a real bear to cure! Subsequently, to Becker's surprise as much as anyone's, the bone began to heal over the next couple of weeks, and the patient walked out a little over a month later. Becker's primary focus was on using (sometimes slowly varying) DC micro-currents to effect regeneration of limbs, and possibly organs. This work sprang from his discovery that there was a consistent change in potential (voltage) from the central nervous system outward toward the extremities which was NOT associated with nerve 'firing' or conduction as we think of the normal transmission of electrochemical impulses through the fiber, but instead was an almost steady change in DC potential along the outer sheath - the Schwann cells - which 'insulate' the nerve fiber. causing connective tissue cells to lose their usual spikey shape, invitro. If you know any more about CS and cell dediff' would you let me know? I don't know about the spikey, but the dedifferentiation has commonly been observed in vivo both from CS and from microcurrents, and also from the re-grafting of nerve stumps into epidermal tissue where they stimulated not only dedifferentiation but limb regrowth in salamanders, frogs, and mice. . Ionic vs Colloidal, sometimes known as 'mine's better than yours' is vested interest. my personal in-built BS filter is usually on full power. Yeah!! It's really time to end this silliness. IMNSHO, since it seems virtually impossible to make colloidal silver without ionic contamination, and even more difficult to make ionic silver without colloidal contamination, no one - and Certainly no business making money off the stuff - is making CS without significant amounts of both of 'em in it. The difference between BS and CS is $$. Regards Rod Take care, Malcolm -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome
The psychedelic experience doesn't lend itself too communicable concepts very well. I mean, how does one convey the meaning of Heinliens Grok when Grok is so far beyond the limits of language and even brain that selects language...when Grok is beyond judgments that make concepts linear and place differential values upon them. When one can actually watch chaos come spinning into existance from nowhere and form itself into extremely detailed scenery and experience within that scenery with other people in that experience..all while being perfectly aware that one is sitting in a chair with eyes that are closed... Well. Perhaps what was experienced was a movie of the process by which reality itself is created in the sensory system. Me makes mention of bootstrap chicken/egg theory. Chickens and eggs are an experienced fact but both came first. In a observational state of mind, that makes perfect sense..describing why or how it makes sense, doesn't. It's like running a math equation in a word processing program. So yea, one sees many things, but in a context that's all inclusive beyond the limits of linear understanding and expression. There was , like, this singularity thing that , like , wow man, encompassed the entire universe, hey far out!, and made itself into a garbage bag with pinholes in it..and each of all the pinholes were thinking it alone was the source of the light being emmited from them and couldn't see the bag at all, I mean like man, the bag was space, See? And some of the pinholes were fighting about who was the shiniest and brightest light when really they were just a bigger orifice shitting less light...and that's where I am, except I can't be 'cause I'm here making up molecules by imposing and projecting geometric everythingness patterns onto nothing and I'm too busy believing I'm not to see that I am what I'm seeing I'm not. And no brain fart smells bad to the brain than com-poots it? Know what I mean Dude? No? Ok, I just gotta new old Suburu. Wanna ride? We can go watch the ocean think it's a bunch of droplets dancing. No? OK, girls in bikinis then. That's cool! Ken NOTE. Mandatory Colloidal-Silver-Related-Content follows: I wonder if you took a dose of a potent psychedelic with silver could you could watch the sliver kill the pathogens up-close and figure out the mechanism on a molecular level? James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:36 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome I really don't know. I've not been to a doctor in 35+ years. I suspect it was a swollen gland and a good dose of mentally directed niacin from the shroom did it in. The heat seemed to be both thermal and the prickly kind gotten from niacin. It is the brain that directs everything, after all. Direct the brain and there's no tellin what can happen. Shamans have been using the shroom for eons to enable alternative focus of attention. Psychedelics have been know to completely reprogram people overnight. Longtime addicts to alchohol, coke and heroin have been cured in days without withdrawals with the use of strong psychedelics such as abogain [sp?] treatments.The early experiments with LSD yeilded some similar amazing results too. But it's not legal here. People who have their programming erased get strange ideas about freedom that those who would define it for us don't like. [No more achoholism AND no more marriage? No sense of hurry or pressure..no need for a car?] They like the idea that one would be freed of a drug addiction, but don't like it when the person gets freed of the whole consumer addiction/wage serf value system enchilada. If someone rethinks the entire system from scratch..that could be dangerous. When role playing means nothing, what then, is the role of leader worth? Ken At 01:05 PM 8/30/02 -0500, you wrote: Ode Coyote wrote: Psylicybe [sp] Cubensis ..the cow plops golden dollar..brain fertilizer. It wasn't just a tight muscle, it was an actual lump about the size of a ping pong ball. Quite disturbingly large and getting bigger. Ken Could this have been a fatty tumor? I have several of those. Jeannie -- We lie the loudest when we lie to ourselves. Jeannie McReynolds Oregon Coast -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome
Ok, cool! Ken At 08:31 AM 8/31/02 -0700, you wrote: Sorry Ken. Stropharia Cubensis is exactly the same as Psilocybe Cubensis and they do not grow on wood. They are coprophilous (dung lovers). Trem - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: RE: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome Stropheria is a slightly different genus growing mostly in wood. There are panaeolus cyanescens also in the patties in the Gulf area. I was hunting psilocybe cubensis. Some days I found one. Other days 80 and 90 pounds of em. We used to boil em down and put the juice 50/50 with beer in a keg and have a party Sweet home Alabama style. I'm no expert either..ya made me go look it up :-) Gosh that was a long time ago. ken At 01:10 PM 8/30/02 -0600, you wrote: Oh, spooky. Maybe the shroom enlightened a neoplasm. I'm no expert, but I think it is Stropharia Cubensis that grows in the pies. James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:06 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome Psylicybe [sp] Cubensis ..the cow plops golden dollar..brain fertilizer. It wasn't just a tight muscle, it was an actual lump about the size of a ping pong ball. Quite disturbingly large and getting bigger. Ken At 12:26 PM 8/30/02 -0600, you wrote: If the cows eat them, do they get glad cow disease? I love it! Was that S.C. that you used on the tight muscle? I have never heard of that therapy. I used to grow them, but it quite a project. James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 6:07 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Glad gow syndrome Alas, I didn't know about CS back when hunting the noble cubensis in the distant 70s. But I have used the fungi to heal lumps in muscles over night. It seemed to have a magical property of concentrating a prodigious heat wherever the concentration was held on a certain spot with a healing intent. It feels much like a mentally directed niacin flush. Makes the spot reddish and radiant with heat. Months old Ping pong ball sized lump deep in the arm muscle vanishes by morning... I have no idea what it was, just that it went away and never came back. If the cows eat them, do they get glad cow disease? Ken At 11:31 AM 8/29/02 -0600, you wrote: Have you guys been blending the sol with cow-pie fungi? James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:45 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it... The DR Clark Kent super zapper! It could change anyone in a phone booth in a real hurry! ..and make one leap over tall buildings. No para sites on M! [I have real sites ] Ken At 05:37 AM 8/29/02 -0400, you wrote: - Original Message - From: cking...@nycap.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:39 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it... For the HV guys, replace the electrodes on a Stun gun with silver ones. Impress your friends. WOO,HOO!!! LOL! And if one has to use it as a self defense device... You could induce some shock burns, but sterilize the wounds with silver at the same time. How thoughtful and considerate. :) -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it...
Bin there, Dun thet! Ode Coyote wrote: We live in Sane. Everything works there too, at least in theory. Owch!! If it doesn't work as expected, we just didn't know what we're doing. [We have God to tell us what we were doing] You screwed up! That Worked perfectly! PS God [our handyman/ local know-it-all..aka Screech Owl] lives here too, but he's in Illinois right now. Ken aka Sarge..Nick name Nik named me that. That was his job..to call everyone something else. [ He's our local dead guy now..he died in Sane a couple of years ago.] Arg is my middle name. Confused [conned and fused all at once] We must stick apart! Robert Anton Wilson [RAW] Chuck I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSodium Hydroxide was buying cs instead of making it.
Humm , silver oxide battery run backwards..sorta? What would happen if you added salt to ionic silver water and put a voltmeter on the electrodes? K At 11:00 AM 8/31/02 -0400, you wrote: Perhaps the OH is already there. Maybe when one makes the CS, when an oxygen atom is pulled out at the electrode during electrolysis, the remaining OH sticks around to balance the silver ion. So when salt is added, there is a simple reshuffle, with the OH and the Cl swapping partners so to speak. That would give silver chloride and sodium hydroxide, or lye. Marshall Ivan Anderson wrote: Just to clear up a few things :) If one does not add extra OH- ions to the mix, then the talk of sodium hydroxide (Na+ OH-) is redundant. The sodium ions take no part in the reaction (Ag+ + Cl- = AgCl), and are called spectator ions. Sodium ions cannot ionise anything as they are already oxidised, sodium metal on the other hand reacts violently with water. Ivan. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it...
Outta site insite! Ode Coyote wrote: The DR Clark Kent super zapper! It could change anyone in a phone booth in a real hurry! ..and make one leap over tall buildings. No para sites on M! [I have real sites ] Ken At 05:37 AM 8/29/02 -0400, you wrote: - Original Message - From: cking...@nycap.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:39 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it... For the HV guys, replace the electrodes on a Stun gun with silver ones. Impress your friends. WOO,HOO!!! LOL! And if one has to use it as a self defense device... You could induce some shock burns, but sterilize the wounds with silver at the same time. How thoughtful and considerate. :) -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it...
James Osbourne, Holmes wrote: Have you guys been blending the sol with cow-pie fungi? Naaahh! it's just the psilli-season James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:45 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it... The DR Clark Kent super zapper! It could change anyone in a phone booth in a real hurry! ..and make one leap over tall buildings. No para sites on M! [I have real sites ] Ken At 05:37 AM 8/29/02 -0400, you wrote: - Original Message - From: cking...@nycap.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:39 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: buying cs instead of making it... For the HV guys, replace the electrodes on a Stun gun with silver ones. Impress your friends. WOO,HOO!!! LOL! And if one has to use it as a self defense device... You could induce some shock burns, but sterilize the wounds with silver at the same time. How thoughtful and considerate. :) -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it.
Arnold Do they use the AAA batteries rather than those ^%$$^ expensive button cells? Ken At 01:37 PM 8/31/02 -0400, you wrote: Marshall, Send me your address and I will happily send you one of my laser pointers as a small acknowledgement of your contribution to this forum in the years I have been lurking here. I have several thousand in stock. Best Regards, Arnold Beland - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it. Ah, elementary chemistry. I love it! OK, took about 3 oz of 5 ppm CS, 80% ionic, and added a pinch of salt. The solution became slightly milky. Added about an oz of household ammonia (ammonium hydroxide), and it cleared back up. Good idea. That seems to confirm the hypothesis that the ionic CS reacts with the NaCl and forms AgCl. Darn, misplaced my laser pointer. I wanted to confirm that the colloidal part was unchanged by this, but I guess that will have to wait till another day. Marshall harsha godavari wrote: Ken: I believe salt is donating some of the chloride to silver o form silver chloride ( which is a white precipitate if formed in large quanties...)If you add some ammonia, it should disappear as it will dissolve in Ammonium hydroxide. Regards Harsha Godavari Ode Coyote wrote: That would be my guess. That sodium has to go somewhere when [if?] the chlorine swaps sides. Is it possible that something else is happening to make the milkyness when salt is placed in conjunction with silver ions and we've accepted a simplistic assumption as final truth? Is it possible that silver ions do an amazing and complicated dance when injected? Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Strength
Waitaminnit!! What about the toxic effects of I as in AgI below, or NO3- for that matter? How come mom used to paint that stuff (iodine) onto our cuts and scrapes?? Could it be someone in Canada wasn't thinking too straight?? ja...@tir.com wrote: Johnny wrote: Catching up- Can anyone respond to the factual nature of the statement here- about silver ions killing organisms in the soil? Johnny Silverseed- author: C/s...@ntibiotic Suprehero Hi Johnny, The last sentance of this paragraph is what I was refering to. A link to this report by the Canadian Gov. (B.C.) follows. Keep in mind the toxic level noted is per kilogram of soil. http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/BCguidelines/silver/bcsilver-36.htm#TopOfPage Irrigation with 9.8 mg silver/L is toxic to maize and 4.9 mg/L is toxic to lupines (Cooper and Jolly 1970). There was no significant effect on wheat or maize at 460 mg/kg silver as AgI in sandy or loam soil but 640 mg/kg silver as AgI of soil inhibited germination of Engelmann spruce seeds (Klein 1978). Spraying a AgNO3 solution at 9.5 mg silver/L caused damage to Cattleya orchids (Beyer 1976) and a decrease was noted in the growth rate of bean plants grown in a nutrient solution containing 9 µg silver as AgNO3 /L. Silver levels in the sediments or soils which exceed 25 to 50 mg silver/kg may have significant effects on the heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora (Sokoland Klein1975). -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMystery sweetner
Anybody have any knowledge of an artificial sweetner named maltitol? We just bought some sugar free cookies, and find the sweetner is the above named substance. (Mandatory CS reference) However, we are both taking CS and have no side effects. - Original Message - From: Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 6:23 AM Subject: Re: CSCS Strength Waitaminnit!! What about the toxic effects of I as in AgI below, or NO3- for that matter? How come mom used to paint that stuff (iodine) onto our cuts and scrapes?? Could it be someone in Canada wasn't thinking too straight?? ja...@tir.com wrote: Johnny wrote: Catching up- Can anyone respond to the factual nature of the statement here- about silver ions killing organisms in the soil? Johnny Silverseed- author: C/s...@ntibiotic Suprehero Hi Johnny, The last sentance of this paragraph is what I was refering to. A link to this report by the Canadian Gov. (B.C.) follows. Keep in mind the toxic level noted is per kilogram of soil. http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/BCguidelines/silver/bcsilver-36.htm#TopOfPag e Irrigation with 9.8 mg silver/L is toxic to maize and 4.9 mg/L is toxic to lupines (Cooper and Jolly 1970). There was no significant effect on wheat or maize at 460 mg/kg silver as AgI in sandy or loam soil but 640 mg/kg silver as AgI of soil inhibited germination of Engelmann spruce seeds (Klein 1978). Spraying a AgNO3 solution at 9.5 mg silver/L caused damage to Cattleya orchids (Beyer 1976) and a decrease was noted in the growth rate of bean plants grown in a nutrient solution containing 9 µg silver as AgNO3 /L. Silver levels in the sediments or soils which exceed 25 to 50 mg silver/kg may have significant effects on the heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora (Sokoland Klein1975). -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it.
Absolutely!!! Best Regards, Arnold Beland - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:10 AM Subject: Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it. Arnold Do they use the AAA batteries rather than those ^%$$^ expensive button cells? Ken At 01:37 PM 8/31/02 -0400, you wrote: Marshall, Send me your address and I will happily send you one of my laser pointers as a small acknowledgement of your contribution to this forum in the years I have been lurking here. I have several thousand in stock. Best Regards, Arnold Beland - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it. Ah, elementary chemistry. I love it! OK, took about 3 oz of 5 ppm CS, 80% ionic, and added a pinch of salt. The solution became slightly milky. Added about an oz of household ammonia (ammonium hydroxide), and it cleared back up. Good idea. That seems to confirm the hypothesis that the ionic CS reacts with the NaCl and forms AgCl. Darn, misplaced my laser pointer. I wanted to confirm that the colloidal part was unchanged by this, but I guess that will have to wait till another day. Marshall harsha godavari wrote: Ken: I believe salt is donating some of the chloride to silver o form silver chloride ( which is a white precipitate if formed in large quanties...)If you add some ammonia, it should disappear as it will dissolve in Ammonium hydroxide. Regards Harsha Godavari Ode Coyote wrote: That would be my guess. That sodium has to go somewhere when [if?] the chlorine swaps sides. Is it possible that something else is happening to make the milkyness when salt is placed in conjunction with silver ions and we've accepted a simplistic assumption as final truth? Is it possible that silver ions do an amazing and complicated dance when injected? Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it.
From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Arnold Do they use the AAA batteries rather than those ^%$$^ expensive button cells? Ken Ken, Do a search on eBay on my ID of abeland1 and you will see the details. I brought these into the country originally to try to provide a method of testing home made CS for strength of colloidal content (coupled with a light meter). I broached the idea here on the CS list and it went over like a lead balloon. A few old Radar guys popped up with the assertion that you would not be able see anything of a size less than the wavelength of the laser, 650nm. This was not true as scattering is not the same as reflection, but with the math involved, I was not about to fight that out here. Then eBay decided to ban anything even mentioning colloidal silver. By this time I thought I had really stepped in it and decided to just sell off the pointers on eBay. To my amazement, people really liked them and I started making a small but steady profit on them. Life really is like a box of chocolates, isn't it? Best Regards, Arnold Beland - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:10 AM Subject: Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it. Arnold Do they use the AAA batteries rather than those ^%$$^ expensive button cells? Ken At 01:37 PM 8/31/02 -0400, you wrote: Marshall, Send me your address and I will happily send you one of my laser pointers as a small acknowledgement of your contribution to this forum in the years I have been lurking here. I have several thousand in stock. Best Regards, Arnold Beland - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: CSbuying cs instead of making it. Ah, elementary chemistry. I love it! OK, took about 3 oz of 5 ppm CS, 80% ionic, and added a pinch of salt. The solution became slightly milky. Added about an oz of household ammonia (ammonium hydroxide), and it cleared back up. Good idea. That seems to confirm the hypothesis that the ionic CS reacts with the NaCl and forms AgCl. Darn, misplaced my laser pointer. I wanted to confirm that the colloidal part was unchanged by this, but I guess that will have to wait till another day. Marshall harsha godavari wrote: Ken: I believe salt is donating some of the chloride to silver o form silver chloride ( which is a white precipitate if formed in large quanties...)If you add some ammonia, it should disappear as it will dissolve in Ammonium hydroxide. Regards Harsha Godavari Ode Coyote wrote: That would be my guess. That sodium has to go somewhere when [if?] the chlorine swaps sides. Is it possible that something else is happening to make the milkyness when salt is placed in conjunction with silver ions and we've accepted a simplistic assumption as final truth? Is it possible that silver ions do an amazing and complicated dance when injected? Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSWas: CSbuying cs instead of making it.
An idea: I have been successful in selling a product I call eye and ear drops with the ingredient of ionic silver via ebay. It seems the red flags do not go up on ebay as long as you do not combine colloidal with silver. With busy schedule I haven't offered any since spring, but had no problems this winter selling it (listed as supplements for dogs/cats) Connie Then eBay decided to ban anything even mentioning colloidal silver. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome
Dear Barbara, You may want to look at the anecdotes at this site prior to making a decision about ibogaine. http://www.ibogaine.org/ Regards, Catherine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSparticle size distribution analyser
Dear Santa, The PL-PSDA particle size distribution analyser is an integrated, automated system for the rapid determination of particle size distribution of colloidal dispersions...in ten minutes http://www.polymerlabs.com/partsize/ jr -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSOT: echinacea
A couple of more years back, on one of my lists, (that being one of the problems), I read a paper with an alternative opinion on whether echinacea should be used on an on/off schedule (as is normally suggested). That piece was also saved on a system that is long gone. I have searched the couple lists I thougth it may be on but have not been able to locate it. Does anyone have reference to such an article? TIA Connie -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSodium Hydroxide was buying cs instead of making it.
Ivan Anderson wrote: Hi James and Marshall. The reason why sodium hydroxide is corrosive is that it can hold large amounts of OH- ions in solution. It is corrosive at pH14, but totally harmless at pH8, in fact it is good for you at pH8-9 and is no more than alkalised water. When one adds NaOH to water it more or less completely ionises, that is, it disassociates into its component ions Na+ and OH-, which then become free and dissolved. A solution of NaOH pH 7.4 has the same number of free OH- ions as blood, and could be safely injected into the blood stream. By your reasoning our blood contains sodium hydroxide. I have noticed this before, you guys seem to be intimidated by the name Lye, but it is nothing more than discrete sodium and hydroxyl ions swimming in water. You can do what ever you like to the Cl-, Ag+ or Na+, but if the OH- concentration stays the same the corrosiveness and pH of the solution is not altered. I am not intimidated by the name Lye. I am aware of what you state above, and it is correct. I had at one time thought of suggesting that sodium hydroxide could be used as well as baking soda for neutralizing aloe vera when you add CS, but decided not to for two reasons. First, the possibility of getting lye directly on the skin while preparation would cause burns, and second, if too much was used, the final mix would be caustic. Baking soda is self limiting in this respect and thus much safer. Anyone that read ingredients like I do, would know that sodium hydroxide shows up many places, especially in many toiletries, such as shampoo. It is also a major component in many soaps. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSHVAC
Isn't the 555 limited to 15 volts or so? -James - Original Message - From: ascottsil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: CSHVAC Has anyone tried making a HVAC generator for CS with a 555 timer and an auto coil? If the waveform is symmetrical and there is no ground reference then pulsed DC should work just as well as AC. Just curious... Andy
Re: CSHVAC
An auto spark coil would be problematic. First it would be difficult to get the current you need, since they step the voltage up by over 1,000:1 I believe. It would require an amp to generate a milliamp of current on the secondary. Second, the coil is made to operate at high frequencies (that is a rapid rise and fall time). To allow the silver time to aggregate into particles, or move sufficiently away from the electrode before reversal (and it will reverse, even if the waveform is asymetrical unless you put a high voltage diode in the secondary) would require very high voltage. Lets take an example. To make a gallon an hour at 60 htz requires abou 10K volts and about 25 mA of current. With a spark coil, which typically has a 10 microsecond pulse before the leakage inductance shorts it out, it would require 50,000 pulses a second to maintain the same duty cycle. But this would quickly burn the coil out, since it is made for duty cycles of maybe 1/100 of that max. So if we run it at 500 pulses per second, we are running at about 1% duty cycle. The amount of current necessary would need to be about 100 times large for the same production rate. Thus we need about 1.4 Amps of secondary current. With the step up these have, that would require about 3,000 amps on the input. And since the frequency is about 8 times as high, the current needs to be about 8 times as high as well, or about 30,000 amps. Of course if you want to make it at a slower rate, then you could use a lower amperage, of maybe 1 amp, and make a gallon in about 30,000 hours. Now I could be off by a factor of 2, or even an order of magnitude on some of these estimates, but the result would still be the same. I believe it would be impratical. Use a 15 KV neon sign transformer like I do, and it will work fine. Marshall ascottsil...@aol.com wrote: Has anyone tried making a HVAC generator for CS with a 555 timer and an auto coil? If the waveform is symmetrical and there is no ground reference then pulsed DC should work just as well as AC. Just curious... Andy
Re: CSMystery sweetner
Thanks, Tel, that's just what I needed to know. - Original Message - From: Tel Tofflemire To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 12:11 PM Subject: Re: CSMystery sweetner You will find your answer here. Tel Tofflemire Dewey, AZ http://www.wholefoods.com/healthinfo/maltitol.html Bill Missett wrote: Anybody have any knowledge of an artificial sweetner named maltitol? We just bought some sugar free cookies, and find the sweetner is the above named substance. (Mandatory CS reference) However, we are both taking CS and have no side effects. - Original Message - From: Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 6:23 AM Subject: Re: CSCS Strength Waitaminnit!! What about the toxic effects of I as in AgI below, or NO3- for that matter? How come mom used to paint that stuff (iodine) onto our cuts and scrapes?? Could it be someone in Canada wasn't thinking too straight?? ja...@tir.com wrote: Johnny wrote: Catching up- Can anyone respond to the factual nature of the statement here- about silver ions killing organisms in the soil? Johnny Silverseed- author: C/s...@ntibiotic Suprehero Hi Johnny, The last sentance of this paragraph is what I was refering to. A link to this report by the Canadian Gov. (B.C.) follows. Keep in mind the toxic level noted is per kilogram of soil. http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/BCguidelines/silver/bcsilver-36.htm#TopOfPag e Irrigation with 9.8 mg silver/L is toxic to maize and 4.9 mg/L is toxic to lupines (Cooper and Jolly 1970). There was no significant effect on wheat or maize at 460 mg/kg silver as AgI in sandy or loam soil but 640 mg/kg silver as AgI of soil inhibited germination of Engelmann spruce seeds (Klein 1978). Spraying a AgNO3 solution at 9.5 mg silver/L caused damage to Cattleya orchids (Beyer 1976) and a decrease was noted in the growth rate of bean plants grown in a nutrient solution containing 9 µg silver as AgNO3 /L. Silver levels in the sediments or soils which exceed 25 to 50 mg silver/kg may have significant effects on the heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora (Sokoland Klein1975). -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSHVAC
Hi Andy, No chance it would work. The 555 is limited to a few milliamperes current flow. And if you used a step up transformer to get the high voltage required the current would then be so miniscule it wouldn't even give you a tickle if you connected your self to the transformer secondary. Output current is inversely proportional to the turns ratio and a step up transformer has a high primary to secondary turns ratio. What's needed is 30 - 60 milliamps at 10,000 to 15,000 volts to dissociate the gold atoms. It takes considerable wall current to provide that. There's no free lunch as far as trying to get high current and voltage with a little integrated circuit. Also, an auto coil cannot provide much secondary current. Look at the physical size and compare it to a neon transformer. It takes heavy wire and lots of steel core. Trem - Original Message - From: ascottsil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: CSHVAC Has anyone tried making a HVAC generator for CS with a 555 timer and an auto coil? If the waveform is symmetrical and there is no ground reference then pulsed DC should work just as well as AC. Just curious... Andy
Re: CSMystery sweetner
You will find your answer here. Tel Tofflemire Dewey, AZ http://www.wholefoods.com/healthinfo/maltitol.html Bill Missett wrote: Anybody have any knowledge of an artificial sweetner named maltitol? We just bought some sugar free cookies, and find the sweetner is the above named substance. (Mandatory CS reference) However, we are both taking CS and have no side effects. - Original Message - From: Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 6:23 AM Subject: Re: CSCS Strength Waitaminnit!! What about the toxic effects of I as in AgI below, or NO3- for that matter? How come mom used to paint that stuff (iodine) onto our cuts and scrapes?? Could it be someone in Canada wasn't thinking too straight?? ja...@tir.com wrote: Johnny wrote: Catching up- Can anyone respond to the factual nature of the statement here- about silver ions killing organisms in the soil? Johnny Silverseed- author: C/s...@ntibiotic Suprehero Hi Johnny, The last sentance of this paragraph is what I was refering to. A link to this report by the Canadian Gov. (B.C.) follows. Keep in mind the toxic level noted is per kilogram of soil. http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/BCguidelines/silver/bcsilver-36.htm#TopOfPag e Irrigation with 9.8 mg silver/L is toxic to maize and 4.9 mg/L is toxic to lupines (Cooper and Jolly 1970). There was no significant effect on wheat or maize at 460 mg/kg silver as AgI in sandy or loam soil but 640 mg/kg silver as AgI of soil inhibited germination of Engelmann spruce seeds (Klein 1978). Spraying a AgNO3 solution at 9.5 mg silver/L caused damage to Cattleya orchids (Beyer 1976) and a decrease was noted in the growth rate of bean plants grown in a nutrient solution containing 9 µg silver as AgNO3 /L. Silver levels in the sediments or soils which exceed 25 to 50 mg silver/kg may have significant effects on the heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora (Sokoland Klein1975). -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSre CS CO-OP Con
I have been on this Health food kick now for nearly thirty years and have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years on supplements,books,news-letters,etc.I joined the CO-OP at the very start and am more than pleased and satisfied with them. As for bargains,there is an old saying I have tried to follow over the years,A poor man can't afford to buy anything cheap!Think about it. Harold. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 5/7/02
CSRe: sodium hydroxide
It is impossible to make a bar of soap without sodium hydroxide. You can certainly make a detergent bar without, but not a bar of soap. Also, in a properly made bar of soap, there isn't any lye left because it has saponified. Jean I Anyone that read ingredients like I do, would know that sodium hydroxide shows up many places, especially in many toiletries, such as shampoo. It is also a major component in many soaps. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSneutralizing aloe
Okay, now I'm lost. What does this mean? Why would you want to neutralize aloe vera when it's with CS? What happens? Thanks, Jean I had at one time thought of suggesting that sodium hydroxide could be used as well as baking soda for neutralizing aloe vera when you add CS... -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSneutralizing aloe
This has been discussed here many times before. Aloe Vera tends to be acid. The low ph tends to make CS quickly aggregate and fall out. To prevent this, you must always neutralize the aloe vera before adding the CS. I have always suggested doing it with bicarbonate of soda, but sodium hydorxide would work as well. Once neutralized then the mixture is stable when kept in the refrigerator for several days, instead of minutes or hours. Marshall BJ wrote: Okay, now I'm lost. What does this mean? Why would you want to neutralize aloe vera when it's with CS? What happens? Thanks, Jean I had at one time thought of suggesting that sodium hydroxide could be used as well as baking soda for neutralizing aloe vera when you add CS... -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSOT: echinacea
Connie wrote: A couple of more years back, on one of my lists, (that being one of the problems), I read a paper with an alternative opinion on whether echinacea should be used on an on/off schedule (as is normally suggested). That piece was also saved on a system that is long gone. I have searched the couple lists I thougth it may be on but have not been able to locate it. Does anyone have reference to such an article? TIA Connie I read a letter from a scientist who claimed that it was his research that has been quoted to mean that echinacea is only effective for a few days at a time, and should not be taken long-term. He said that his research had been misunderstood. He said that all he had said was that they had only tested it for a few days. I don't know where to find the information now. I think it was put out by the people who make One Life, which is a supplement supposed to prevent sickness. It contains echinacea as well as several other things, and is intended to be taken continuously. I could probably find their address if it were needed. Jeannie -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- We lie the loudest when we lie to ourselves. Jeannie McReynolds Oregon Coast
Re: CSOT: echinacea
Try http://www.powerattunements.com/herp.html . Search for echinacea on that page. Also, http://www.curezone.com/schulze/handbook/echinacea.asp Roman Connie wrote: A couple of more years back, on one of my lists, (that being one of the problems), I read a paper with an alternative opinion on whether echinacea should be used on an on/off schedule (as is normally suggested). That piece was also saved on a system that is long gone. I have searched the couple lists I thougth it may be on but have not been able to locate it. Does anyone have reference to such an article? TIA Connie -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSneutralizing aloe newie inquiry
Marshall Dudley wrote: This has been discussed here many times before. Aloe Vera tends to be acid. The low ph tends to make CS quickly aggregate and fall out. To prevent this, you must always neutralize the aloe vera before adding the CS. I have always suggested doing it with bicarbonate of soda, but sodium hydorxide would work as well. Once neutralized then the mixture is stable when kept in the refrigerator for several days, instead of minutes or hours. Marshall BJ wrote: Okay, now I'm lost. What does this mean? Why would you want to neutralize aloe vera when it's with CS? What happens? Thanks, Jean I had at one time thought of suggesting that sodium hydroxide could be used as well as baking soda for neutralizing aloe vera when you add CS... I buy commercial aloe and add a tespoon of advanced cs that i also buy. should i add baking soda or soidium hydroxide to neutralize it? --The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour thank you - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
Re: CSneutralizing aloe how about beer and alcohol
Marshall Dudley wrote: This has been discussed here many times before. Aloe Vera tends to be acid. The low ph tends to make CS quickly aggregate and fall out. To prevent this, you must always neutralize the aloe vera before adding the CS. I have always suggested doing it with bicarbonate of soda, but sodium hydorxide would work as well. Once neutralized then the mixture is stable when kept in the refrigerator for several days, instead of minutes or hours. Marshall BJ wrote: Okay, now I'm lost. What does this mean? Why would you want to neutralize aloe vera when it's with CS? What happens? Thanks, Jean I had at one time thought of suggesting that sodium hydroxide could be used as well as baking soda for neutralizing aloe vera when you add CS... -- does this also mean that if you're taking cs and have a beer or a drink that the acid in these substances would deplete the cs in your system as they are both very acidy? can they be neutralized? The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour thank you - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
Re: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome
Well, OTOH there is Stropharia Rogosoannulata (I kid you not!) commonly called the King or Garden Stropharia, wine mushroom, Omigodlookathesizathathing!! (colloq.) It is an undeniable saprophyte. So-called 'Stropharia Cubensis' are usually S. semiglobata, a dung fungus resembling P. cubensis but not blue staining. There are other imitators of the true blue P. spp. that stain blackish and will make you sicker 'n a dog or worse, so readers be warned that sampling some mushrooms can reduce your mileage right down to zero. I think you'd enjoy *Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms* by Stamets, Ten Speed Press. From the Frontispiece . . . . . . . . . Mycotopia: An environment wherein ecological equilibrium is enhanced through the judicious use of fungi for the betterment of all lifeforms. In a transparently devious attempt to keep this on topic; the False idea that you can distinguish a poisonous mushroom from non-poisonous ones because it will discolor a piece of silver, or make it non-poisonous by cooking it with silver is yet more of the stuff S. globata grows on. Take care, Malcolm Ode Coyote wrote: Ok, cool! Ken At 08:31 AM 8/31/02 -0700, you wrote: Sorry Ken. Stropharia Cubensis is exactly the same as Psilocybe Cubensis and they do not grow on wood. They are coprophilous (dung lovers). Trem - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: RE: CSRE: Glad cow syndrome Stropheria is a slightly different genus growing mostly in wood. There are panaeolus cyanescens also in the patties in the Gulf area. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSLow-Budget Flurosecence Microscopy
The-Scientist.com is a wonderful, free online science publication. I love it. Here is a good link for those of you who are doing real home-science with CS, especially those vending products and wanting to do further analysis of the molecular characteristics. If this is useful to anyone I would curious to know just how it might be used to look at CS. Presumably it would be useful only for particulate as oppoosed to ionic CS? JBB -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSHVAC
A further problem here is the kickback voltage resulting from the collapse of the secondary field. Generally speaking this induces about a 300 volt spike on the primary winding, which energy must either be wasted as heat or re-used in a resonant configuration. A six cylinder gasoline auto engine at 6000 rpm needs 3 X 6000 sparks per minute max., or 300 per second, and most coils are wound to be at max efficiency at more reasonable rpm, say 3000 - 3600. Also, the resonance effect is often used in high performance ignition system coils to produce a multiple spark train which gives superior ignition or burn characteristics to the fuel-air mix; often a lean one. S, making some WAGs and estimating the resonant coil-system freq to be no more than 10 to 1 over the basic engine demand, the system resonance point would be about 1500 to 2000 Hertz. The ratio of the primary to secondary windings is about 100 to 1, and the high secondary voltage of 20,000 to 30,000 volts is produced by the extremely rapid field collapse of the secondary when the 'points' or equivalent circuit is opened or re-triggered by the hi-perf kits. By considering the dwell angle its possible to estimate the duty cycle of the coil worst case; for a six cylinder engine dwell angle - the time allowed for the coil primary to fully establish its field is, or was before magnetic or optical 'points' - up to 45 degrees, or a total of three-fourths of the entire rotation for all six firings. During the other one fourth the points were open, so for less than one twenty-fourth of each cylinder's two revolution cycle its ignition circuit discharged, for one eighth it charged. Electrical energy from the battery entered the system for up to three fourths of the time, and left it via the high tension sparks for somewhat less than one fourth. Overall, the ignition system draws perhaps 6 to 10 amps at 12 to 14 volts or between 70 and 140 watts at a max. At 100 watts continuous, a 30,000 volt DC discharge consumes 3.33 mA, to do thisover one sixth the time and collect its wits for the other 75 - 80 % it will achieve a 20 mA current pulsation, (square wave, call it 7 kV @10 mA rms). A sinusoidal 60 Hz waveform into a neon sign transformer producing 15,000 volts AC at 30 mA (rms) will consume 250 watts according to its label and will be constrained to discharge over perhaps two thirds of it's cycle for a 45 mA pulsing current consumption. A comparison shows that the wattage consumed by ignition and neon systems are in a one to two-and-a-half ratio, the voltages will probably end up at about 20kV for the ignition system vs 15 for the neon, since both discharge path and stray capacitance will suck down the ign voltage peak, and perhaps a one to four or five ratio for the current density. My very ball-park speculation, then, would be that the ignition system with well-chosen components would be about one third to one fourth as productive as the neon transformer system. All the standard disclaimers that I really don't know what I'm talking about apply here, and my fudge factors could be off at least as far as anyone elses, but its a shot at the problem from a different perspective. Malcolm Marshall Dudley wrote: An auto spark coil would be problematic. First it would be difficult to get the current you need, since they step the voltage up by over 1,000:1 I believe. It would require an amp to generate a milliamp of current on the secondary. Second, the coil is made to operate at high frequencies (that is a rapid rise and fall time). To allow the silver time to aggregate into particles, or move sufficiently away from the electrode before reversal (and it will reverse, even if the waveform is asymetrical unless you put a high voltage diode in the secondary) would require very high voltage. Lets take an example. To make a gallon an hour at 60 htz requires abou 10K volts and about 25 mA of current. With a spark coil, which typically has a 10 microsecond pulse before the leakage inductance shorts it out, it would require 50,000 pulses a second to maintain the same duty cycle. But this would quickly burn the coil out, since it is made for duty cycles of maybe 1/100 of that max. So if we run it at 500 pulses per second, we are running at about 1% duty cycle. The amount of current necessary would need to be about 100 times large for the same production rate. Thus we need about 1.4 Amps of secondary current. With the step up these have, that would require about 3,000 amps on the input. And since the frequency is about 8 times as high, the current needs to be about 8 times as high as well, or about 30,000 amps. Of course if you want to make it at a slower rate, then you could use a lower amperage, of maybe 1 amp, and make a gallon in about 30,000 hours. Now I could be off by a factor of 2, or even an order of magnitude on some of these estimates, but the result would still be the same. I believe it would be
Re: CSHVAC
But you are missing one important element. You are talking about 2000 htz, instead of 60 htz. So if you need 10 KV at 60 htz, you will need about 300KV at 2000 htz. From what little experienting I have done, when you double the frequency, you have to double the voltage for a similar result. For instance, for 27 or so volts, 1/6 htz works, and at 60 htz, you need 10 KV. Both are in the area of 160 volts per hertz. Marshall Malcolm Stebbins wrote: A further problem here is the kickback voltage resulting from the collapse of the secondary field. Generally speaking this induces about a 300 volt spike on the primary winding, which energy must either be wasted as heat or re-used in a resonant configuration. A six cylinder gasoline auto engine at 6000 rpm needs 3 X 6000 sparks per minute max., or 300 per second, and most coils are wound to be at max efficiency at more reasonable rpm, say 3000 - 3600. Also, the resonance effect is often used in high performance ignition system coils to produce a multiple spark train which gives superior ignition or burn characteristics to the fuel-air mix; often a lean one. S, making some WAGs and estimating the resonant coil-system freq to be no more than 10 to 1 over the basic engine demand, the system resonance point would be about 1500 to 2000 Hertz. The ratio of the primary to secondary windings is about 100 to 1, and the high secondary voltage of 20,000 to 30,000 volts is produced by the extremely rapid field collapse of the secondary when the 'points' or equivalent circuit is opened or re-triggered by the hi-perf kits. By considering the dwell angle its possible to estimate the duty cycle of the coil worst case; for a six cylinder engine dwell angle - the time allowed for the coil primary to fully establish its field is, or was before magnetic or optical 'points' - up to 45 degrees, or a total of three-fourths of the entire rotation for all six firings. During the other one fourth the points were open, so for less than one twenty-fourth of each cylinder's two revolution cycle its ignition circuit discharged, for one eighth it charged. Electrical energy from the battery entered the system for up to three fourths of the time, and left it via the high tension sparks for somewhat less than one fourth. Overall, the ignition system draws perhaps 6 to 10 amps at 12 to 14 volts or between 70 and 140 watts at a max. At 100 watts continuous, a 30,000 volt DC discharge consumes 3.33 mA, to do thisover one sixth the time and collect its wits for the other 75 - 80 % it will achieve a 20 mA current pulsation, (square wave, call it 7 kV @10 mA rms). A sinusoidal 60 Hz waveform into a neon sign transformer producing 15,000 volts AC at 30 mA (rms) will consume 250 watts according to its label and will be constrained to discharge over perhaps two thirds of it's cycle for a 45 mA pulsing current consumption. A comparison shows that the wattage consumed by ignition and neon systems are in a one to two-and-a-half ratio, the voltages will probably end up at about 20kV for the ignition system vs 15 for the neon, since both discharge path and stray capacitance will suck down the ign voltage peak, and perhaps a one to four or five ratio for the current density. My very ball-park speculation, then, would be that the ignition system with well-chosen components would be about one third to one fourth as productive as the neon transformer system. All the standard disclaimers that I really don't know what I'm talking about apply here, and my fudge factors could be off at least as far as anyone elses, but its a shot at the problem from a different perspective. Malcolm Marshall Dudley wrote: An auto spark coil would be problematic. First it would be difficult to get the current you need, since they step the voltage up by over 1,000:1 I believe. It would require an amp to generate a milliamp of current on the secondary. Second, the coil is made to operate at high frequencies (that is a rapid rise and fall time). To allow the silver time to aggregate into particles, or move sufficiently away from the electrode before reversal (and it will reverse, even if the waveform is asymetrical unless you put a high voltage diode in the secondary) would require very high voltage. Lets take an example. To make a gallon an hour at 60 htz requires abou 10K volts and about 25 mA of current. With a spark coil, which typically has a 10 microsecond pulse before the leakage inductance shorts it out, it would require 50,000 pulses a second to maintain the same duty cycle. But this would quickly burn the coil out, since it is made for duty cycles of maybe 1/100 of that max. So if we run it at 500 pulses per second, we are running at about 1% duty cycle. The amount of current necessary would need to be about 100 times large for the same production rate. Thus we need about 1.4 Amps of secondary
CSHVAC again...
Thanks for the response Marshall. I've seen a few circuits that use a 555 timer with a power transistor or an SCR on the output to drive an autotransformer that puts out about 20 KV. I was hoping that I could use stuff I had lying around the house for the HV source. I guess I need to break down and buy a neon sign transformer. Do you submerge both of your electrodes or leave a small air gap between one of them and the DW? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. Andy Scott Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:51:23 -0400 From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSHVAC An auto spark coil would be problematic. First it would be difficult to get the current you need, since they step the voltage up by over 1,000:1 I believe. It would require an amp to generate a milliamp of current on the secondary. Second, the coil is made to operate at high frequencies (that is a rapid rise and fall time). To allow the silver time to aggregate into particles, or move sufficiently away from the electrode before reversal (and it will reverse, even if the waveform is asymetrical unless you put a high voltage diode in the secondary) would require very high voltage. Lets take an example. To make a gallon an hour at 60 htz requires abou 10K volts and about 25 mA of current. With a spark coil, which typically has a 10 microsecond pulse before the leakage inductance shorts it out, it would require 50,000 pulses a second to maintain the same duty cycle. But this would quickly burn the coil out, since it is made for duty cycles of maybe 1/100 of that max. So if we run it at 500 pulses per second, we are running at about 1% duty cycle. The amount of current necessary would need to be about 100 times large for the same production rate. Thus we need about 1.4 Amps of secondary current. With the step up these have, that would require about 3,000 amps on the input. And since the frequency is about 8 times as high, the current needs to be about 8 times as high as well, or about 30,000 amps. Of course if you want to make it at a slower rate, then you could use a lower amperage, of maybe 1 amp, and make a gallon in about 30,000 hours. Now I could be off by a factor of 2, or even an order of magnitude on some of these estimates, but the result would still be the same. I believe it would be impratical. Use a 15 KV neon sign transformer like I do, and it will work fine. Marshall
