CSReality Lives: Tao Te Silver
Re: CSReality lives !!Thanks, James that was good reading, but: Bah! There is no such thing as an empty glass. That is the true nature of reality, as expressed in The formula of a Vaccum in an alternate translation of the Tao Te King. Of course, the same conception was taught by the Essenes, the esoteric jewish mystics, Christ, and as far as I know every authentic tradition that spans the globe. BUT that would be religious controversy Perhaps a wise man might say: Don't read between the lines, rather Drive through them with your soul. Let me just quote a stanza from the Tao Te King ( Ching ), and then we can begin our own Tao Te Silver! Heaven and Earth appear indifferent They view the ten plus thousand things as unreal. The wise appear indifferent They view society as unreal. The space between Heaven and Earth How like a bellows it is! Empty but never exhausted the shape changes but not the form. The more it moves the more it yields More words count less Too much senses lead to utter exhaustion. Maintain the perfect freedom of your nature - Hold fast to the center. --- Tao Te Silver ( Silver and the Way ) The ions that can be measured are not the real ions The zeta potential that can be gauged is not the real potential The current IS the father of particles and ions The water is the mother of atoms and particles; proteins and salts Ever managing the current one can see the mystery Ever managing the water one can purify the expression. The silver ions and particles spring from the same source but differ in designation To the uninformed, this appears as darkness Darkness within darkess! Heed well! The gateway to good colloidal silver. . Contaminate not the water lest it fill with compounds You can create silver ions but you cannot prevent reactions You can create silver particles But you cannot guarantee cellular union: When false claims fill your mind You become unguardable. Claim superiority and authority And you bequeath misfortune upon yourself Rather: Just make your CS And withdraw when the work is done For that is the Way of Silver. - Original Message - From: James Allison To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:45 PM Subject: Re: CSReality lives !! I think I may have finely found what is real! And somebody was correct earlier, when they said it could be found on the net! ---Begin Half Empty or Half Full? The study of Chaos often leads to what we call eureka moments. Eureka is an expression of triumph upon discovering a startling truth. Archimedes, one of the greatest intellects of antiquity, used this expression (literally I have found it!) when he figured out how to determine the purity of gold objects. We get closer to this eureka moment when the study of Chaos changes us and gives us a new way to examine the world. This transformed perspective lets us take something ordinary and familiar, and suddenly see in it all sorts of interesting new insights. For example, let's take a glass and fill it with water to the halfway point. We then ask the customary, time-honored question, Is the glass half empty or half full? Haven't we all seen this a zillion times? What new insights can we possibly squeeze out of this tired old platitude? As we all know, the glass serves as a metaphor for life, and water represents the good things in it. So, seeing the glass as half empty means you're a pessimist, because you dwell on the lack in your life. Seeing it as half full means you're optimistic, because you focus on the good things in life. Most people choose the latter and describe themselves as optimists. In all likelihood, this means you, too. Notice an interesting social phenomenon here. Most people want to be seen as optimists, even those who are usually morose and glum. Aren't we just a planet full of upbeat, sunny cheerleaders? How interesting! Why do we have such a social pressure to be relentlessly optimistic? Let's look at it from a completely different angle and turn this paradigm upside down. Is it always a negative thing to see the glass as half empty? Suppose such a perception motivates you to fill the glass - so to speak - whereas seeing it as half full leads to complacency. Focusing on the lack in one's life can then be a driving force for success. Not so negative now, is it? Look at the overachievers who accomplish great things in any field. They probably started out life with the idea that there wasn't enough water in their glass to suit them, so they worked to fill it up. On the other hand, at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the underachievers who dawdle away their lives in torpid passivity. Perhaps they do so because their focus is on what they already possess, rather than the areas of life that can use some improvement. Another similar idea is to recognize the inherent usefulness
CSA request for user data...
Greetings, all! An associate of mine asked me to forward a request to colloidal silver users: A simple email with one's name from those who have been using colloidal silver on a daily basis for in excess of four years ( 10-15 PPM ); I would add that the quantity of the amount ingested daily would be beneficial. Our list member is working in India to introduce colloidal silver in a local area, and according to the health authority establishment that our lister is working with, email can have the authority of a written statement, and they are requesting one hundred examples of users that have not experienced negative side effects from the long term use of colloidal silver. All should be aware that this involving a commercial endevour, albeit one where the heart is in the perfect place ( my judgement ). After considering the issue for about a week, I feel that this request could serve two purposes. For those who wish to validate colloidal silver use for the health authorities, but do not want this information used publically, please simply state that the statement is only for use with the health authorities. For those who wish to release their testimonial for our project's use, please simply include a statement that we can use the information for not-for-profit use on http://testimonials.silvermedicine.org ( up-and-coming ). Please send any email to the following email address: resea...@silvermedicine.org Warm Regards, Jason http://www.silvermedicine.org -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSovereign Silver Vs the Rest
Corbin: Natural Immunogenics is one of the few companies that we openly endorse, and there are many reasons for this. First, they avoid promotional language that can cause harm to others. They don't use fear tactics in advertising, and they have strong data to support their claims ( even if much of it is not publically revealed ). Second, I've tested their products and found them to be extraordinary. I especially recommend the use for nebulizing, as another lister is correct in that many people cannot afford the costs of using their CS as a daily supplement. Third, they are not parasitic. They understand business in the old school way. They don't take the money and run, they are deeply involved in extraordinary research. They understand that clinical results are superior to theories, and work ardently to understand colloidal silver and its applications in the body. Fourth, they don't justify away the risks involved in over-using silver, which puts them high on an ethical scale. I understand that people talk about air-bubbling and CS production, and claim that it makes a fine product, which it likely does, but the claim for a superior product violates common sense and good science: the idea in any production process is to limit variables, not create them. Natural Immunogenics understands the principles of the CS production, and are one of the few companies out there that, in my opinion, deserve to be making a profit off of pre-made colloidal silver. I'm glad Brooks shared about their own results in product testing. Mesosilver and Sovereign silver compete on the high-end of the pre-made CS market ( In the US ). They have distinctly different products. Both companies have alot to offer in terms of technical expertise and experience ( and zeal ). I have not evaluated Mesosilver, as determining what high quality silver is better for what and when and why is not an easy task to accomplish without a great deal of statistical data. I prefer the ionic silver as the benefits of silver ions have been firmly established, even if the mechanisms of biological delivery are still in doubt. How clinically better Natural Immunogenics silver is as compared with the SG6 or 7 is unknown. Trem ranks right up their with 'Ole Bob's best CS... I've seen data on both, and I'm aware of the results of anti-bacterial comparison studies conducted with each. How any of this translates inside the body is truly unknown. Keep in mind, all of this said, I'm still an advocate for CS made with four nines, although I see the nines as an emergency measure ( and an easy method ), and as a stepping stone to more refined methods of production. I personally maintain a great interest in further research on highly particulate colloidal silver... But mild silver protein has met its match many times over against isolated silver; greater effectiveness against pathogens with far lower concentrations of actual silver. I see the point about MSP used externally being beneficial, due not to the quality of the silver but to the high concentration and the nature of treating a condition in external environment. I'm not aware of any data that suggests that silver ions or particles, unassisted, can penetrate normal skin tissue; however, considering damaged tissue, burned tissue, or infected tissue, sizing may matter. Jason - Original Message - From: silversw...@yahoo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:25 PM Subject: CSSovereign Silver Vs the Rest Hi I recently talked with the president of Sovereign Silver, and we had a lenghtly conversation concerning his product versas all the rest out there. First I talked with him about Mild silver protein, and was informed, even though i have been having good results using it for a week, that long term use would more than likely lead to a build up in your tissues causing the coloring agyria. 2nd I also addressed the issue, an I am sure many on here will disagree, that their product is 10-40 times better than most home-made collodial silver products that manly use the constant current generators, due to the larger particle size and the fact that AIR is contaminating your process when you make it in a bottle. He informed me that they use water that is made in the lab, under a special high purity process, and then the water is covered with argon gas, to elimate any reactions such as silver oxides that might be produced from being exposed to Co2, O2, N2 etc. He told me they have compared there product to about 75 other types of colloidal silver and NONE of them stood up to theres, based on test results with variuos pathogens, at various levels of ppm. I did suggest however that it doesnt neccesarrily mean that constant current devices are harmful in any way, and that you do get a product produced even though it has silver oxides and and a larger particle size, and is a much less inferior product, one could still use ift
Re: CSTDS/PWT meters [survey?]
Ken: I'd love to see Stephen @ Natural Immunogenics do an analysis and a antibacterial comparison on your best batch... I'd also like to see the characterization done by Frances Key et al w/ silvercolloids.com Both at least have extensive experience working with colloidal silver. Best Regards, Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSHydrogen Peroxide...FYI
Greetings, all: I'm trying to create a measureable standard to calculate how much H2O2 to use with colloidal silver to achieve suitable benefit. In so doing, my first step has been to find a method to quantify the levels of H2O2. My chosen method is utilizing peroxide strips, which measure H2O2 concentration ( in this case, theoretically accurate, since there are no chlorides in the CS ) in PPM. The scale of the strips I purchased is from 0 - 100 PPM. I know that all the testing papers are not completely accurate. However, I figured I could get close enough to draw some conclusions using this affordable method. I added one drop of 35% hydrogen peroxide to 32 ounces of 11 PPM colloidal silver. This is far below the concentration I use with mouth and throat infections, but I had to create a solution that fell within the low measuring parameters of the testing paper. My H2O2 is actually relatively old; newly purchased 35% H2O2 might show greater levels of concentration. The CS measured roughly 47 PPM H2O2. 8X4X3X47 = 4512 PPM H2O2 : 4512:11 = 410 to 1 ( PPM H2O2 to Colloidal Silver ) --- three drops of 35% added to 4 ounces of CS is the strongest concentration I've used. The colloidal silver used was a high quality CS - made with Trem's SG7 Pro. Therefore, there is never any visible reaction with the hydrogen peroxide, because any particulate silver is in the form of minute particles. This presented me with my first problem, as 24 hours later there was perhaps only a change of 1-2 PPM in the hydrogen peroxide reading. The hydrogen peroxide stabilized far faster than I thought it would. Of course, this has to be kept in perspective, as the concentration of silver is only 11PPM, and silver flakes or agglomerated particles will cause a greater reaction with the H2O2 ( considering lower quality colloidal silvers ). My next tests will center around a CS with a greater particle content. The container was also left open during this trial run. Kind Regards, Jason
CSBlue Senator Candidate...
Greetings, all... Although I swore I wouldn't bother Stan Jones, after reading an email response by silverfacts, I sent an email to Stan. Stan informed me that he wrote that the initial photographs may have been altered. After doing so, he contacted the photographer who took the particular shot in question. After speaking to the photographer, Stan states that he is convinced that the photos were not altered. The difference in different photos would thereby be attributed to either different lighting or digital rendering ( total light/color balance ). Kind Regards, Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSBlue Senator Candidate...
One thing I almost forgot to mention: Stan does have a copy of a video tape recording of the event, and he states that the blue is not pronounced in the video. I don't know if the difference has to do with the flash used on the camera, the digital rendering, the light settings, the color balancing, or all of the above... Jason - Original Message - From: SilverMedicine.org silvermedic...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: CSBlue Senator Candidate... Greetings, all... Although I swore I wouldn't bother Stan Jones, after reading an email response by silverfacts, I sent an email to Stan. Stan informed me that he wrote that the initial photographs may have been altered. After doing so, he contacted the photographer who took the particular shot in question. After speaking to the photographer, Stan states that he is convinced that the photos were not altered. The difference in different photos would thereby be attributed to either different lighting or digital rendering ( total light/color balance ). Kind Regards, Jason -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMS info and Silver...
Nancy: In your writing, you state that you began taking colloidal silver @ 2 ounces twice daily. I'm assuming you purchased this silver premade... Do you remember what brand? When you started using your colloidal silver ( week 14? ), can you describe the process or machine you used? I see that the second section in your writing is dated August 2002... When did the writing first begin? Or at least, about when did the silver start? About August 2000? Can you confirm, just for the record, that the product used via IV was Argentum 23 by Natural Immunogenics? Were they doing 5 ml infusions? I don't suppose you happen to have ( or could possibly get from the MD ) a copy of a before and after MRI? And, when were you initially diagnosed with MS? Sorry about all the questions! An amazing journey indeed. Warm Regards, Jason Eaton
Re: CSMS info and Silver...
Sorry, folks... that was supposed to be going directly to Nancy... Thanks, Jason - Original Message - From: Paul Ladendorf To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: Re: CSMS info and Silver... Nancy, I'm a little confused here. In one of your posts you wrote: I have had IV therapy recently. I HAD MS, it is gone. Originaly I just drank CS, It did wonders. It killed the MS mycoplaysma. I then began to drink the CS with H2o2 and the lesions began to go away, and the myelin began to repair. I finally tried IV infusions and after five weekly IV drips, I no longer have any symptoms from the MS. Nancy When I talked to you on the phone I thought you said that the MRI showed no new lesions. I don't remember you saying anything about the old lesions healing. This is a very critical issue so I would appreciate you clearing this up. Thanks, Paul SilverMedicine.org silvermedic...@silvermedicine.org wrote: Nancy: In your writing, you state that you began taking colloidal silver @ 2 ounces twice daily. I'm assuming you purchased this silver premade... Do you remember what brand? When you started using your colloidal silver ( week 14? ), can you describe the process or machine you used? I see that the second section in your writing is dated August 2002... When did the writing first begin? Or at least, about when did the silver start? About August 2000? Can you confirm, just for the record, that the product used via IV was Argentum 23 by Natural Immunogenics? Were they doing 5 ml infusions? I don't suppose you happen to have ( or could possibly get from the MD ) a copy of a before and after MRI? And, when were you initially diagnosed with MS? Sorry about all the questions! An amazing journey indeed. Warm Regards, Jason Eaton -- Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
Re: CSMild Silver Protein
Ken: I agree that'd be the better question! I certainly don't! Jason - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: Re: CSMild Silver Protein The better question would be, does ANYONE agree with it. At 02:45 AM 10/19/02 -0700, you wrote: Does everyone agree with the following about mild silver protein COLL/AG-40, mild silver protein is attenuated silver that has been broken down into it microscopic particles which are .001 microns in diameter, electrically charged, and are in a colloidal state, bound with a mild silver protein, EDTA which is a chelating agent. It has been re-engineered from the early 1900s with a state of the art space age technology. ##Re-engineered means they do the same thing a different way...but it's still the same thing. ..possibly, binding a particle to a protein stabilizer so it doesn't drop out? If it needs a stabilizer, doesn't that mean it's unstable without it? They are certainly not the only people to sell MSP. Read the fine print on the labels at the store. ..wonder why it's in fine print if it's so good? It is nitrate and nitrate free and has a balanced ph. COLL/AG-40, mild silver protein is non-toxic and now due to the 1994 HATCH ACT is a nutritional mineral supplement. ### Labeled as Supplement not because it IS one but because it can't be called anything else and still be labeled. Why our Brand of COLL/AG Mild Silver Protein? ## Because that's what you're selling? There is considerable information concerning colloidal silver if one wishes to read. There is also considerable misinformation concerning colloidal silver which tends to confuse someone who has not taken the time or does not want to make an in-depth study of colloidal silver. Therefore, let me try to summarize the information so one can tell a good product from a bad product. ##IOW, Now that we've established that you are ignorant, let us feed you OUR line. First colloidal silver should be a yellow color with a small particle size. If it is made properly, light will reflect a yellow color but if it is made as most competitors make it the particle size is not small enough to reflect a yellow light and it will be a clear color. ## Try, not big enough to reflect yellow light..or..so extremely big so as to reflect all light and not be colloidal at all. [Way past red or violet] Regardless of what those who make clear colloidal silver product say it should be yellow. If one does not know how to make it yellow, he does not know how to make it properly. ## Heck , anyone can make yellow CS. That's the easiest thing to do and can be done very fast [which is very convenient for a mass producer] Those who do know how to make it yellow are not going to tell someone how to improve their methods of manufacture to show and prove it to them. ## And those who can only make yellow [or don't take the much longer time required to do so] aren't going to admit they don't know how to make anything else. We have photographed about 23 competing companies with a 90,000 power electron microscope and all clear products that we photographed were large particle colloids. ## Is clear being used to mean colorless ? Did the 23 competing companies use salt? Who chose what products to compare? What about the other 156 or so? If someone is making it a yellow color, then the particle size should be acceptable but they need to also incorporate the next two items. ## Which are complete BS Second, colloidal silver should be chelated with a mild protein base or it can't be assimilated properly. ## Apparently, even inhaled silver dust can be assimiliated. It goes out the rear end. Plain colloidal silver is an inorganic product that is repulsed by the colon walls and cannot get into the blood stream unless it is chelated with a free amino acid in the digestive tract. ### It lasts long enough in the digestive tract to get to the colon? Isn't that somewhere near the area that things get 'eliminated' from the blood stream? I sure am glad my colon walls can repulse all those toxins and prevent their re-entry into my blood stream. At that point, 'repulsed' would mean retained 'in' the blood stream? All minerals are chelated in some form before one takes the mineral for better assimilation. When it is chelated it can be utilized or excreted depending on the needs of the body. Inorganic minerals are hard on the body causing hardening of the arteries, etc. and should never be taken in volume. Most (about 85%) of chelated colloidal silver is excreted within about three weeks, but acts to stimulate the immune system during this period of time. ## According to the EPA, inhaled silver dust is 94% eliminated within 48 hrs. Chelated colloidal silver sounds a bit more dangerous. Third, all colloidal silver must be
Re: CSRe: Tom Kotynski - Thanks Bill - confused
Laura: Sorry! My post was a general useless ramble... I answer quite a few emails on a daily basis; when I write my emails, I sit down start typing and press the send key. If I didn't, I wouldn't have nearly enough time to respond on a daily basis. All of this wasn't directed at you personally. Different images are going to look very different with Argyria, especially if a digital camera was used. In order to determine if an image is doctored, you would need the original media to do a comparison with any variations that exist. A talented eye would need to look at the modified media with a fine magnifying glass. Media-doctored images are best done with airbrushes. A pixle by pixle comparison on digital images would shed some light on any modifications that were rendered digitally. If one is really as interested as claimed, then the simple solution is to go see him. I'm personally impressed with his attitude, I bet he's a great guy. The conflict was created; it did not exist before it was created. The plain issue is that it's natural for people to throw out opinions based on little more than passion. You've now read personal accounts of witnesses that notice the difference; you've now read the statement that the candidate says he has a skin pigmentation problem. On whose authority will you rest your belief on? Personal investigation is the best authority. I don't have that great of interest, because it doesn't surprise me that the gentleman contracted Argyria. You ought to try brewing what he brewed. In fact, maybe I will do that this weekend, and take a picture so that folks can see what the man was drinking. I'd even do it with distilled water and a touch of salt rather than tap water, as the mineral content of this tap water would be quite different than his. He would likely have been ok for another few years if he hadn't run the batch for an hour. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: samma...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 8:14 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: Tom Kotynski - Thanks Bill - confused Jason: There are the plain issues in conflict here. Stan does look like that or he doesn't; the photo was doctored or it wasn't. There are very many threads out there in cyber world stating as fact that the candidate is blue. I would like to give an accurate rebuttal to those threads if possible. Package it or label it any way you wish, but that's all I hope to do. Laura In a message dated 10/18/02 12:07:51 AM Central Daylight Time, silvermedic...@silvermedicine.org writes: Laura: The problem here is the same problem that often occurs... Those who feel threatened begin by striking back; they enter attack mode. This in turn sets a tide in motion that results in end confusion. Stan Jones has Argyria. If there are differences in the photographic display of the images, there could be several reasons, most of them likely non-intentional, including what color profile was used to digitally render the images. It's just like the incorrect story that STILL floats around about Rosemary... Stating that some diabolical scheme was put into place, including the rendering of images... When the truth is: The Argyria condition was severely aggrevated when some uneducated doctor decided that perhaps dermabrasion would cure the condition... Dermabrasion being similiar to taking sand paper and removing layers of the skin. The diabolical story is repeated here, as it is on the news: people like sensationalism, people like power, and people like attention. Nothing gets one's attention like a good conspiracy theory... However, the truth is, again, that the real conspiracies are seamless, well-thought out, and unbreachable. The amauteurish stuff? Fear not the truth... The truth catches up with those who enjoy the games for the sake of ego. Let these types of people be handled by those who are trained to do so. Those who are trained to do so know how to go about doing it without destroying everything along the way. Fighting ignorance with ignorance is ill-advised. Just like one doesn't have to be afraid of the truth, one doesn't have to be afraid of the lies... When one studies truth for long enough, not only does one discover how much one doesn't -- and cannot! -- know, but one discovers how impotent the lies truly are. The power of lies is executed through those who believe them, not the lies themselves. People are conditioned to accept lies. Don't fight the lies, fight the conditioning. There is either a desire to know the truth, a desire to believe the lies, or a lack of caring... Beating confusion means accepting when one walks in the unknown. This means relinquishing a bit of control. Those who need to be in control also have a need to be controlled. The fear becomes too great, the power
Re: CSRe: Tom Kotynski - Thanks Bill - confused
Laura: The problem here is the same problem that often occurs... Those who feel threatened begin by striking back; they enter attack mode. This in turn sets a tide in motion that results in end confusion. Stan Jones has Argyria. If there are differences in the photographic display of the images, there could be several reasons, most of them likely non-intentional, including what color profile was used to digitally render the images. It's just like the incorrect story that STILL floats around about Rosemary... Stating that some diabolical scheme was put into place, including the rendering of images... When the truth is: The Argyria condition was severely aggrevated when some uneducated doctor decided that perhaps dermabrasion would cure the condition... Dermabrasion being similiar to taking sand paper and removing layers of the skin. The diabolical story is repeated here, as it is on the news: people like sensationalism, people like power, and people like attention. Nothing gets one's attention like a good conspiracy theory... However, the truth is, again, that the real conspiracies are seamless, well-thought out, and unbreachable. The amauteurish stuff? Fear not the truth... The truth catches up with those who enjoy the games for the sake of ego. Let these types of people be handled by those who are trained to do so. Those who are trained to do so know how to go about doing it without destroying everything along the way. Fighting ignorance with ignorance is ill-advised. Just like one doesn't have to be afraid of the truth, one doesn't have to be afraid of the lies... When one studies truth for long enough, not only does one discover how much one doesn't -- and cannot! -- know, but one discovers how impotent the lies truly are. The power of lies is executed through those who believe them, not the lies themselves. People are conditioned to accept lies. Don't fight the lies, fight the conditioning. There is either a desire to know the truth, a desire to believe the lies, or a lack of caring... Beating confusion means accepting when one walks in the unknown. This means relinquishing a bit of control. Those who need to be in control also have a need to be controlled. The fear becomes too great, the power too demanding. The unknown elements become paralysing. Thus is the unwise ruler ruled. Confusion is paralysing. This is the one principle one really needs to grasp to understand how large populations are nuetralized. Whether or not there are those shouting the truth from roof-tops is irrelevant. If there is enough confusion generated, the confusion will prevent action. To overcome confusion where the truth is displayed in blinding clarity? Screaming louder doesn't work. Another scientific study... doesn't work. Attraction works. Where you really want to focus your attention is reaching those who have the desire for the truth... You can't be doing two things at one time. Someone who is seeking the truth will not be attracted to the ensuing fight of the idea sellers -- those trying to convince those who could care less,or those who want to believe the lies because they are too afraid to accept some personal responsiblity. The truth is often lost in the conflict. There are those who would like to state that we know the absolute truth about Argyria. We have mounting evidence, but we do not have the absolute truth. What we do have is threshold levels that have been scientifically established with relative certainty. Whether or not isolated electro-colloidal silver exceeds this maximum intake, like many of us suspect, and how much it can exceed the threshold levels, has not been established. To claim that is has been established is an insult to the very thing that some are trying to stand for: The truth. This claim sets to stone confusion. The interested party becomes confused, because they are trying to believe propaganda. It is very hard to make a distinction between two equally shared lies. It's the same thing with hydrogen peroxide. Those seeking the truth will find it. The journey in finding the truth will teach them how to safely use it. In the end, there will be no fear, nor confusion. The iteration is the same: The desire drives the interest -- the caring -- the caring becomes more important than having to be in control -- in having to know the absolute truth right now yea but. The one secret is in the power of attraction backed by an authentic ( and rare ) honesty. My thanks to Bill for opening up a senseable conversation with the journalist. Jason ( Las Vegas, Nevada, USA ) - Original Message - From: samma...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: Tom Kotynski - Thanks Bill - confused In a message dated 10/16/02 6:22:33 PM Central Daylight Time, pott...@wlink.com.np writes: It's been a little confusing that subsequent to the story Stan Jones did tell others on the list that
Re: CS(no subject) and TOTALLY off topic
That's funny James... But I'm a bit confused as you didn't mention which Universe. I bet that's why they would keep pestering... Jason - Original Message - From: James Allison To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:46 PM Subject: Re: CS(no subject) and TOTALLY off topic True story... When I was filling out an application for an FBI background check so I could do childcare many many years ago, there was a spot to put down where I was from. To make a long story short, suffice it to say that the FBI will call for further details when you answer Planet Earth. And on a side note, when they ask you to be more specific, Northern Hemisphere doesn't seem to please them either. Many people talk the talk when it comes to giving laughter as the best medicine, I have always chosen to walk the walk ;) Yours in health, James Allison - Original Message - From: stepbystep...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: CS(no subject) Vitale Fayngersh- Brooklyn, NY Originally from Ukraine (former USSR)
CSot edible zapper...
Greetings, all: As many of you know, I follow James Carr's work ( Alpha Omega Labs ) fairly closely, and utilize a number of his products. I've also been a fan of the Russian Scientific Community for quite some time, as well. http://www.altcancer.com/ecomed1.htm I thought those of you who are familiar with DC Zapper technology would get a kick ( literally? ) out of a family of products developed in the ( former ) Soviet Union... Edible zappers, at about 40.00 US a pill. Now, who's going to be the first to develop the first in-blood-stream zapper? Happy reading and kind regards, Jason
Re: CSStan Jones e-mail address
Mike: Sorry, I would never send a barrage of questions such as listed to a politician who would be unwise to answer them anyway... At least one of the questions are self-damning no matter how it is answered. I have the information I need, I don't personally see further need to waste the candidates time. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:52 AM Subject: Re: CSStan Jones e-mail address Ken writes: No need the deluge the man with inquiries. One e-mail will do for us all. ...Mike?... Errr, could you do it Ken? Or Jason? You already seem to have gotten more info than the rest of us... I'm kinda swamped over here. Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: CS a Scam
Reid: I have a small piece on the BYU test: http://www.silvermedicine.org/byu.html On the page there is the link to ASAP's website, and the original study figures: http://www.amsilver.com/bacteria.htm To date, I have elected to respect the microbiologists' request that only ASAP be allowed to display the material. Jason - Original Message - From: Reid Harvey pott...@wlink.com.np To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:20 PM Subject: CSRe: CS a Scam Ian, Thanks for your message rebutting a skeptic, but regarding the following, which you wrote in part, ..You went on the internet in search of medical evidence for CS. I'm afraid you will not find it. It's not there Actually there *are* quite a number of proofs, many available on the web. I think one of the most convincing proofs is the series of tests done by the Microbiology Dept. of Brigham Young Univ., comparing CS with popular antibiotics. Not long ago I found the study at the silvercures web site, but now I'm only getting a link to an article: http://www.amsilver.com/silo.htm It appears there's tons of hard evidence on the effectiveness of CS, that the powers that be work overtime to discredit. Does anybody else have the link to the BYU test? Reid -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Tap Water
Jim: Who knows what compounds are made in such a process. However, the increased conductivity of tap water causes the reaction to start out of control immediately. This greatly increases the actual amount of silver deposited into the water. As with using saline solution as a primer, a great deal of silver will remain in the solution. The end result is a poorer quality product with too much actual silver content. It wouldn't surprise me if one discovered that metallic silver was actually plating out in the process, in small quantities of course. Jason - Original Message - From: Jim Meissner To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: CSCS Tap Water Dear Jason: I do know how to make CS with distilled water. I use low voltage and current limiting. It is about 15 uS as measured on a PWT and has low Tindell as shown with the laser. But, I have experimented making CS with tap water which in my case is well water. I have been reluctant to drink it though. Do you think that the process causes silver to be electroplated onto the mineral content of the well water? I seem to get a brown residue in the bottom of the jar and a thin black coating or plating on the sides of the jar. Does this mean that I am precipitating the minerals in the water? I am undecided whether this is good or bad. What do you think? Juergen P. (Jim) Meissner Check out my Website at www.MeissnerResearch.com Read about the benefits of the Brain State Synchronizer sounds for improving your life and health. - Original Message - From: SilverMedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 10:15 AM Subject: CSCS Tap Water Diane/all: There's nothing wrong with taking isolated silver and adding it tap water; the issue in question would be whether tap water was used during production. There are plenty of salts in the body to convert silver ions into silver chloride. Not adding CS to tapwater is not going to make one bit of difference. In fact, silver ions are not going to get out of the body as ions, period. At some point, most if not all ions will be converted to salts or proteins, and perhaps reconverted to ions, then back to any number of possible compounds. To think anything else is nothing more or less than unclear thinking. What happens between point A ( drinking CS ) and point Z ( the silver either exits the body in particulate/compound form or is deposited in the body in particulate/compound form ) is the miracle of CS. The point I've been trying to make for several years now is that not everyone is at equal risk for Argyria. Joe can take CS for thirty years and have no problem. Joe builds a website that says it is completely non-toxic, add a pinch of salt in the production process because we are impatient... Then, six people get Argyria between 5 and 15 years down the road. I'm betting the candidate used salt in the production process, as he was not even aware of the term Argyria... Judging from the date, he probably used Metcalf's instructions on CS generation ( or some derived from Metcalf's work ). Like I said on a post earlier this year, lawyers are already listing colloidal silver as a topic for lawsuits. Those manufacturers who do not educate their customers on the risk because they don't feel the risk is there may be getting some surprises down the road. It's hard to know because it is impossible to truly know how people are using products. I've been working on some theoretical programs for quite awhile to reduce the risk of Argyria This for those with terminal illness who for whatever reason need to be on colloidal silver long term, taking amounts exceeding eight ounces daily of 10PPM CS. While on topic, I also have a problem with the SilverFacts page on this issue, as the site simply plays the propaganda game on the other side of the coin. As far as whether or not cosmetic argyria is a real issue, I deal with people on both sides of the coin... Those who could really care less, and those who have a lot to lose as they make a living on their appearance. I still do not believe that taking sane mounts of quality, isolated colloidal silver places one at risk. I keep my own silver intake well below the EPA established guidelines for lifetime consumption of silver. However, I would like to comment on one more issue: By the time silver starts to deposit in the skin, it will likely have already started depositing in organs. When the skin, fingernails, and hair start to show signs of a condition, it is a warning that the elimination system is not functioning properly. Dehydration is probably the first place to look. The body's ph levels are likely a good second place
Re: CSCS Tap Water
Jim: That's really interesting. In fact, fascinating. It's hard to argue with measured observations, so instead I'd like to ask a few questions! What kind of water is it that you are using? From the conversation, my initial understanding is that it is tap water. However, most tap water I've had experience with would test off the chart on a PWT meter. You give ending measurements at about 15 - 20 uS. Am I to assume that the process you are using does in fact precipitate out all dissolved solids? Have you playing with magnets again? *j/k* The fact that the ionic portion of the CS levels off is not so surprising to me. Slowing the reaction down ( this is in regards to distilled water ) can increase the ionic content by reducing agglomeration, allowing one to achieve a higher concentration of silver ions through proper hydration of the ions ( for lack of a more suitable term ). However, the result of the measurement of silver ions stabilizing usually means that agglomeration is occuring, easily gauged by the laser. So pray tell Jim - how are you stablizing the reaction? As far as pool water goes, I can only guess at effective concentrations. Someone else may have more definitive data. I would start with a beginning concentration of .5 - 1 PPM and begin monitoring growth in the water. One shouldn't need anywhere near the end concentration needed to fight an infection in the human body, or as high as would be needed in a bacterial friendly environment ( such as waste ). If chlorine is being used in the water, the idea would be to taper it off. Of course, the greatest challenge is measuring everything, including the total silver concentration in the water and organism growth. I know that quite a few people simply gauge by lack of algae growth, but I'd be more comfortable with actual testing of the water at different stages. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Jim Meissner To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: Re: CSCS Tap Water Dear Jason: Thank you for your reply. Just like you I try to be very careful and attempt to research things before blindly following standard methods. I purchased several brands of generators and also built kits from the available information. I was not satisfied with the somewhat uncontrolled results. It seems that with the 27 volt method, 90% of the product is produced in the last 10% of time and if you are not watching carefully you will have either mostly pure water or mud and silver flakes floating on top of the water. Since I like to measure things, I bought the Hanna PWT and Laser from Trem and did some research. I have come up with a method that self limits the concentration of silver ions to about 15 uS as measured with the Hanna PWT. Even after 5 days of brewing, the concentration stays below 20 uS and there is very little Tindel as shown by the Laser. What does happen is that as the concentration increases, the silver ions plate back out onto the negative silver electrode. However, the increased conductivity of tap water causes the reaction to start out of control immediately. This greatly increases the actual amount of silver deposited into the water. So, let us say that your above statement does not apply. ( Please feel free to argue this if you like. ) Then what would you say? Would this be a good method of purifying water by precipitation of solids and disinfecting the swimmers? I would prefer using silver instead of chlorine unless there are some negative factors. What would be a proper dilution, 10 to 1? Juergen P. (Jim) Meissner Check out my Website at www.MeissnerResearch.com Read about the benefits of the Brain State Synchronizer sounds for improving your life and health. - Original Message - From: SilverMedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:35 AM Subject: Re: CSCS Tap Water Jim: Who knows what compounds are made in such a process. However, the increased conductivity of tap water causes the reaction to start out of control immediately. This greatly increases the actual amount of silver deposited into the water. As with using saline solution as a primer, a great deal of silver will remain in the solution. The end result is a poorer quality product with too much actual silver content. It wouldn't surprise me if one discovered that metallic silver was actually plating out in the process, in small quantities of course. Jason - Original Message - From: Jim Meissner To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: CSCS Tap Water Dear Jason: I do know how to make CS with distilled water. I use low voltage and current limiting. It is about 15 uS as measured on a PWT and has low Tindell as shown
CSCandidates uses tap water...
Greeting all: An individual on another list spoke with the candidate in question. The colloidal silver he made was disasterous, as thought: He used tap water to create the colloidal silver, and ran the brew for an hour. This readily explains why he contracted Argyria so quickly. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Re: CSFw: CSBlue is the Color of My Candidates Skin Actually I believe the first place silver goes in to the fingernails and hair. Thus I would expect his hair to be almost black, which it is not. Marshall Lynda Khula wrote: just saw the pictures on fox news why would his hair be orange looking would the silver change the color of his hair as well, the picture they are comparing it to has his hair grayLynda- Original Message - From: sol To: silver-l...@eskimo.comsent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:20 PMSubject: Re: CSBlue is the Color of My Candidates Skin The only photos in which he looks blue (to me) are the ones which look doctored, but also consider that he might be using makeup to conceal the blue(grey)? Or the photos in which he does not look blue could be re-colored or touched up. The possibilities are endless.paula compare this photo in marshall's post to the photo in reid harvey's post. looks like someone is using blue filters or something to misinform.jim He doesn't look blue to me in that photo. Marshall --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002
CSCS Tap Water
Diane/all: There's nothing wrong with taking isolated silver and adding it tap water; the issue in question would be whether tap water was used during production. There are plenty of salts in the body to convert silver ions into silver chloride. Not adding CS to tapwater is not going to make one bit of difference. In fact, silver ions are not going to get out of the body as ions, period. At some point, most if not all ions will be converted to salts or proteins, and perhaps reconverted to ions, then back to any number of possible compounds. To think anything else is nothing more or less than unclear thinking. What happens between point A ( drinking CS ) and point Z ( the silver either exits the body in particulate/compound form or is deposited in the body in particulate/compound form ) is the miracle of CS. The point I've been trying to make for several years now is that not everyone is at equal risk for Argyria. Joe can take CS for thirty years and have no problem. Joe builds a website that says it is completely non-toxic, add a pinch of salt in the production process because we are impatient... Then, six people get Argyria between 5 and 15 years down the road. I'm betting the candidate used salt in the production process, as he was not even aware of the term Argyria... Judging from the date, he probably used Metcalf's instructions on CS generation ( or some derived from Metcalf's work ). Like I said on a post earlier this year, lawyers are already listing colloidal silver as a topic for lawsuits. Those manufacturers who do not educate their customers on the risk because they don't feel the risk is there may be getting some surprises down the road. It's hard to know because it is impossible to truly know how people are using products. I've been working on some theoretical programs for quite awhile to reduce the risk of Argyria This for those with terminal illness who for whatever reason need to be on colloidal silver long term, taking amounts exceeding eight ounces daily of 10PPM CS. While on topic, I also have a problem with the SilverFacts page on this issue, as the site simply plays the propaganda game on the other side of the coin. As far as whether or not cosmetic argyria is a real issue, I deal with people on both sides of the coin... Those who could really care less, and those who have a lot to lose as they make a living on their appearance. I still do not believe that taking sane mounts of quality, isolated colloidal silver places one at risk. I keep my own silver intake well below the EPA established guidelines for lifetime consumption of silver. However, I would like to comment on one more issue: By the time silver starts to deposit in the skin, it will likely have already started depositing in organs. When the skin, fingernails, and hair start to show signs of a condition, it is a warning that the elimination system is not functioning properly. Dehydration is probably the first place to look. The body's ph levels are likely a good second place to look. Best Regards, Jason
Re: CSCandidates uses tap water...
Paul: There was no mention of it, but I shall enquire. Also, I forgot to mention that the setup was a straight 3 volt batteries attached to silver wires; apparently no current limiting. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Paul Ladendorf To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:28 AM Subject: Re: CSCandidates uses tap water... SilverMedicine.org wrote: An individual on another list spoke with the candidate in question. The colloidal silver he made was disasterous, as thought. Jason, Did this person find out how much he was using? Thanks, Paul -- Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, more faith.yahoo.com
Re: CSCandidate uses tap water...
Paul: He drank eight ounces daily for about three years. Jason - Original Message - From: Paul Ladendorf To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:28 AM Subject: Re: CSCandidates uses tap water... SilverMedicine.org wrote: An individual on another list spoke with the candidate in question. The colloidal silver he made was disasterous, as thought. Jason, Did this person find out how much he was using? Thanks, Paul -- Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, more faith.yahoo.com
Re: CSSilver Facts: hints at CS in drinking water Argria and Stan Jones
Nancy/all: Much more silver chloride will form in the stomach upon consuming CS than would form by adding CS into water. The problem with generating CS using salt, saline solution, or tap water is not primarily in the formation of silver chloride. The quality of the end product is disasterous. The problem is that the reaction immediately goes out of control-- not only are vast amounts of silver chloride produced, but also very large silver particles. I wouldn't really want to venture a guess at the total amount of silver contained in eight ounces of such a brew... But I'd imagine such a batch run for five minutes would have at least 10X the silver content of a quality product. I don't believe the candidate is lying, or is part of a conspiracy... I would like to know how he made his silver though. It would be extremely difficult to reach the commonly accepted level of silver accumulation via isolated colloidal silver in such a short time. Jason - Original Message - From: Nancy-Silverworks To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: CSSilver Facts: hints at CS in drinking water Argria and Stan Jones Did anyone else see this reference? Looks like he did either make or mix his CS in drinking water if this is accurate. This definitely could cause formation of silver salts. (The site is pro-CS). Maybe the site owner of SilverFacts is a member here. Sorry for my ignorance if that's the case. See excerpt below. http://www.silverfacts.org/pages/jones.html By Tom Kotynski Great Falls Tribune September 30, 2002 He started taking the supplement in 1999 in anticipation of Y2K, in the event that such remedies might be in short supply in the wake of an anticipated worldwide computer disruption. He made his own dietary supplement by electrically charging a couple of silver wires in a glass of water. The charge created particles that he mixed with his drinking water. Some people asked for my web addresses regarding Lyme CS. Here's a couple: http://oikourgos.com/silverworks/cs_info1.html and http://oikourgos.com/trisha/lyme_stories.htm (follow links for My Lyme Story, etc.) Nancy
Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS
Reid: I've done a bit of further research concerning ceramic filters, and I do understand that using a low PPM silver product would not be adequate for such a purpose. I've seen a study where a 50 PPM high quality CS was used for such a purpose, and the results were not satisfactory. As far as the MD's go, my personal opinion is that anyone could use any substance safely ( provided it could be used safely! ) with proper product knowledge... But it is apparently contrary to successful business practices for some of these companies to fully disclose information to their customers. Thus, the ethical solution is to have MD's purchase the substance and supervise use. I would love to see the MD's role switched more to the role of an educator and advisor as far as general health goes. Of course, critical care is an entirely different ball game. Warm Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Reid Harvey pott...@wlink.com.np To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 6:55 PM Subject: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS Dear Jason, Thanks for your very thoughtful message. I can see your point that it would be best for concentrated CS to be administered by a doctor. But how ironic that the vast majority of otherwise-reliable, western educated doctors would appear to tend not to accept the validity of CS, also the victims of the dis-information. You asked about the possibility of my having a comparison done on the high ppm CS I make, to see how effective it really is, and I will hope to do that at some point in the future. But at present I use this CS primarily to saturate ceramic candle filters, all of which have tested 100% removal of fecal coliforms. I use the high ppm secondarily for various treatments on my family while traveling, 'where there is no doctor.' For example, my wife Catherine had a very nasty bout of strep throat while we were in a Nepali game park, far from any clinic. She had had this kind of severe strep several times before, only going to the doctor after it hit her like a ton of bricks, and each time she'd go on antibiotics and be laid up in bed for nearly a week. While in the game park, when seh finally admitted that it was severe strep (her throat red) we put her on a careful regime of the labelled-3200ppm Microdyn, diluted to ~20ppm, a 200ml. glass every four hours. By the second glass she was already feeling better and no further bed rest was indicated, so she didn't miss out on any of the fun activities of the family. (We subsequently rode an elephant out to a place where we could watch rhinos.) It would be interesting to know how Mexicans fare at the business of self treatment with Microdyn. I suppose I have not tuned in sooner to your concern about improper dosage simply because, CS in any shape or form is considered improper by most doctors, misquided as their viewpoint may be. So it may appear that the laymen need to hazard their own dosing, dependent on their own good instincts in seeking proper advice. Of course your concern about a doctor's supervision would extend to many kinds of remedies and not only those of CS. But what with lack of medical facilites, educated people in third world countries have to make do. For example, peace corps doctors around the world tend to warn their volunteers about the hazards of self prescription/ self dosage. Then they give the volunteers prescription drugs, like antibiotics, prior to their going to their various postings, usually remote. So I may see your point about unethical sales of high ppm in the U.S., for example. But given the climate in third world countries, where self dosing is de rigeur, I think the ethical aspects get thrown out the window. In a fair and just world your wisdom would perhaps prevail. Reid Jason said, Reid: My greatest concern with the high PPM solutions is misuse. You'll note that in a previous message, the original company that manufactured what was likely MSP only sold the product to doctors... That this doctor then decided to retail it to others is besides the point! There are reasons for this. I consider companies that only sell these high PPM products to doctors ethical companies. I consider companies that do not, unethical, in that all the companies ( all that I have been able to find with similiar products ) do not claim that there is no risk to use. The fact of the matter is, there is no risk to use, provided that the instructions on the label are followed. Judging from the emails I've received over the last two years, there are many people out there using high PPM MSP as if it were electro-colloidal silver; undiluted, and taking amounts that certainly do produce a considerable risk, even if only a cosmetic one. I'm very certain that silver citrate is a bit different than many of the products out there, including the one in a recent post... But the statement
Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS
Bill: I've corresponded with three individuals over the last year who have developed Argyria, and I'm aware of two other cases. The two other cases were caused by Mild Silver Protein. One was caused by the mass consumption of poorly made silver chloride for five years daily. One actually posted to the list earlier this year, and the mild Argyria was caused by Water Oz. The third was also caused by consuming Mild Silver Protein. Not everyone, apparently, is at the same level of risk for Argyria. I don't consider ten drops of CS excessive use, even undiluted. The individual whom developed severe Argyria consumed either eight or sixteen ounces of CS daily, religously, for five years. Those who consume bentonite regularly will likely have a metabolism that is more capable of processing any number of toxic substances used in the body; the body's elimination system is well cared for with such a habit, and liver functions are greatly supported. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Bill Missett miss...@prodigy.net.mx To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 6:02 AM Subject: Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS There seems to be a major shift in philosophy developing here. Until this discussion began, the dominant Silver List thought was that CS could NOT cause arygria. Now we are hearing that high strength CS CAN cause argyria. Is there any evidence to support this contention? I have been consuming Microdyn CS, whatever its strength is, for six years, at times heavily, straight out of the bottle into my mouth. During a bout of Australian flu three years ago, I drank 10 drops of Microdyn every hour, right out of the bottle, for three straight days. (There were elderly people dying in NYC from that flu, and I didn't want to be one of them.) Additionally, my drinking water is a prepared mix of sea salt, bentonite clay and Microdyn, which I consume daily. I have never had any adverse reactions to this practice, and consider Microdyn safe for consumption undiluted. If I turn blue, I'll let you know. So far the only part of me that's blue is my eyes. - Original Message - From: Reid Harvey pott...@wlink.com.np To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS Dear Jason, Thanks for your very thoughtful message. I can see your point that it would be best for concentrated CS to be administered by a doctor. But how ironic that the vast majority of otherwise-reliable, western educated doctors would appear to tend not to accept the validity of CS, also the victims of the dis-information. You asked about the possibility of my having a comparison done on the high ppm CS I make, to see how effective it really is, and I will hope to do that at some point in the future. But at present I use this CS primarily to saturate ceramic candle filters, all of which have tested 100% removal of fecal coliforms. I use the high ppm secondarily for various treatments on my family while traveling, 'where there is no doctor.' For example, my wife Catherine had a very nasty bout of strep throat while we were in a Nepali game park, far from any clinic. She had had this kind of severe strep several times before, only going to the doctor after it hit her like a ton of bricks, and each time she'd go on antibiotics and be laid up in bed for nearly a week. While in the game park, when seh finally admitted that it was severe strep (her throat red) we put her on a careful regime of the labelled-3200ppm Microdyn, diluted to ~20ppm, a 200ml. glass every four hours. By the second glass she was already feeling better and no further bed rest was indicated, so she didn't miss out on any of the fun activities of the family. (We subsequently rode an elephant out to a place where we could watch rhinos.) It would be interesting to know how Mexicans fare at the business of self treatment with Microdyn. I suppose I have not tuned in sooner to your concern about improper dosage simply because, CS in any shape or form is considered improper by most doctors, misquided as their viewpoint may be. So it may appear that the laymen need to hazard their own dosing, dependent on their own good instincts in seeking proper advice. Of course your concern about a doctor's supervision would extend to many kinds of remedies and not only those of CS. But what with lack of medical facilites, educated people in third world countries have to make do. For example, peace corps doctors around the world tend to warn their volunteers about the hazards of self prescription/ self dosage. Then they give the volunteers prescription drugs, like antibiotics, prior to their going to their various postings, usually remote. So I may see your point about unethical sales of high ppm in the U.S., for example. But given the
Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS
Bill: In my opinion, correct! However, that said, I'm not exactly certain what Microdyn is, as I've never researched it. High PPM colloidal silvers are rarely isolated silver... Usually they are compounds, either silver salts or silver proteins. The higher the PPM, the harder it is to stabilize CS without some sort of stabilizer. Jason - Original Message - From: Bill Missett miss...@prodigy.net.mx To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:48 AM Subject: Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS But silver chloride and mild silver protein are not true collodial silver, correct? - Original Message - From: SilverMedicine.org silvermedic...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS Bill: I've corresponded with three individuals over the last year who have developed Argyria, and I'm aware of two other cases. The two other cases were caused by Mild Silver Protein. One was caused by the mass consumption of poorly made silver chloride for five years daily. One actually posted to the list earlier this year, and the mild Argyria was caused by Water Oz. The third was also caused by consuming Mild Silver Protein. Not everyone, apparently, is at the same level of risk for Argyria. I don't consider ten drops of CS excessive use, even undiluted. The individual whom developed severe Argyria consumed either eight or sixteen ounces of CS daily, religously, for five years. Those who consume bentonite regularly will likely have a metabolism that is more capable of processing any number of toxic substances used in the body; the body's elimination system is well cared for with such a habit, and liver functions are greatly supported. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Bill Missett miss...@prodigy.net.mx To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 6:02 AM Subject: Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS There seems to be a major shift in philosophy developing here. Until this discussion began, the dominant Silver List thought was that CS could NOT cause arygria. Now we are hearing that high strength CS CAN cause argyria. Is there any evidence to support this contention? I have been consuming Microdyn CS, whatever its strength is, for six years, at times heavily, straight out of the bottle into my mouth. During a bout of Australian flu three years ago, I drank 10 drops of Microdyn every hour, right out of the bottle, for three straight days. (There were elderly people dying in NYC from that flu, and I didn't want to be one of them.) Additionally, my drinking water is a prepared mix of sea salt, bentonite clay and Microdyn, which I consume daily. I have never had any adverse reactions to this practice, and consider Microdyn safe for consumption undiluted. If I turn blue, I'll let you know. So far the only part of me that's blue is my eyes. - Original Message - From: Reid Harvey pott...@wlink.com.np To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS Dear Jason, Thanks for your very thoughtful message. I can see your point that it would be best for concentrated CS to be administered by a doctor. But how ironic that the vast majority of otherwise-reliable, western educated doctors would appear to tend not to accept the validity of CS, also the victims of the dis-information. You asked about the possibility of my having a comparison done on the high ppm CS I make, to see how effective it really is, and I will hope to do that at some point in the future. But at present I use this CS primarily to saturate ceramic candle filters, all of which have tested 100% removal of fecal coliforms. I use the high ppm secondarily for various treatments on my family while traveling, 'where there is no doctor.' For example, my wife Catherine had a very nasty bout of strep throat while we were in a Nepali game park, far from any clinic. She had had this kind of severe strep several times before, only going to the doctor after it hit her like a ton of bricks, and each time she'd go on antibiotics and be laid up in bed for nearly a week. While in the game park, when seh finally admitted that it was severe strep (her throat red) we put her on a careful regime of the labelled-3200ppm Microdyn, diluted to ~20ppm, a 200ml. glass every four hours. By the second glass she was already feeling better and no further bed rest was indicated, so she didn't miss out on any of the fun activities of the family. (We subsequently rode an elephant out to a place where we could watch rhinos
Re: CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS
Reid: My greatest concern with the high PPM solutions is misuse. You'll note that in a previous message, the original company that manufactured what was likely MSP only sold the product to doctors... That this doctor then decided to retail it to others is besides the point! There are reasons for this. I consider companies that only sell these high PPM products to doctors ethical companies. I consider companies that do not, unethical, in that all the companies ( all that I have been able to find with similiar products ) do not claim that there is no risk to use. The fact of the matter is, there is no risk to use, provided that the instructions on the label are followed. Judging from the emails I've received over the last two years, there are many people out there using high PPM MSP as if it were electro-colloidal silver; undiluted, and taking amounts that certainly do produce a considerable risk, even if only a cosmetic one. I'm very certain that silver citrate is a bit different than many of the products out there, including the one in a recent post... But the statement that the colloidal silver was effective at 250 PPM + is frightening. I'm almost willing to bet that either someone didn't do the testing correctly, or that someone crossed their information somewhere. I certainly understand your point. If I were in a third world country without access to distilled water, I wouldn't hesitate to use what was at my disposal, including tap water if necessary. Have you considered having a comparison done on your product, to see how effective it really is ( once diluted to useable )? That might be revealing, and might either put your mind at ease, or give you something more to shoot for... Kind Regards, Jason PS: Yes, I certainly agree and know that high concentrations of CS can be made, but it is good to keep in mind that the nature of the products with high PPM are different! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe:CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS
Scott: 500 PPM is not unheard of, actually... But, when the PPM is that high, it is almost always silver compounds one is dealing with-- either ionic salts or silver proteins. Jason - Original Message - From: ascottsil...@aol.com To: r...@kc.rr.com Cc: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: CSRe:CSreply from a company selling 500ppm CS I sent her the below email. Let's see if she answers... Best wishes, Andy (^_^) Dear Dr. Schwartzman, Your name and web site recently came up on a discussion group for colloidal silver. These people are not dummies. You state that your colloidal silver is 500 ppm which is unheard of. This brings up two questions: What laboratory tested your colloidal silver and what is your doctorate in? The right answers would be very helpful to us, the wrong answers or no answer would be of interest to the FDA and the FTC. Thank you for your time. Andrew Scott ascottsil...@aol.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSregulations
Malcom: Yes, the issue at hand is not the validity of the studies done by the fine microbiologists at Brigham Young University, but rather the administration's attempt to seperate the University from the study done. The testing was not sponsored by the university. Since the testing was done on university property, with university equipment, and done on university paid time, I believe that the university owns the work done, although they do not display any copyrights with the work ( which is part of the problem here ). BYU lawyers have been using strong-arm tactics to try to remove the University's name from the study... and more. They also want to reserve their copyright. However, they refuse to, from what I have seen, acknowledge the copyright in print, in a manner that fits the legal definition of copyright display and notification of infringement. This is certainly not an issue with the staff at BYU... I was told that the head microbiologist only wanted the study available through ASAP, as it was their product that was tested. He did not want other, perhaps inferior products, profiting from the work done -- especially since doing so is truly misrepresenting the work. This is certainly understandable, although while I would term ASAP silver an effective silver, it is hardly one of the best out there. The BYU study information will be forever available through our website. Currently, I simply give a brief synopsis, and link over to ASAP. If ASAP is ever forced to take the study down, I will relocate the data. The problem I have is not with the University's position. The problem I have is with trying to remove information from the public domain, and doing so with unethical methods. I'm a very strong freedom of speech advocate. I have quite a bit of information that I cannot release to the public domain... Respecting those who have done work, that, if it gained too much attention, might jeopardize the work being done. I see this as different from microbiologists granting newspaper interviews, and then a University trying to come up behind and clean it all up for political reasons. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:39 AM Subject: Re: CSregulations They didn't deny it, just insisted it was not for public consumption and any use of it would be met with legal(istic) sanction. I believe Jason (silvermedicine ?? site) has the whole bit including his response to the threat. Ian Roe wrote: Hi: Hasn't the Brigham Young research report already been debunked? I thought the university had denied it entirely. Ian - Original Message - From: James Osbourne, Holmes a...@cybermesa.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:26 PM Subject: RE: CSregulations Go to argentumresearch.com Find some juicy quotes by Dr. Flick, and quote him. Also, find the Brigham Young research report, and quote it. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSregulations
Bill: No I do not... Those copyright grants are a part of any good contract. I've always had to sign one, specifically granting rights to the companies I've worked for, if the work was done with company resources ( including time ). The contract specifying rights of work to the corporate entity is the standard these days, not the exception. Jason - Original Message - From: Bill Missett miss...@prodigy.net.mx To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:52 AM Subject: Re: CSregulations I believe the BYU staff microbiologists, as authors, own the copyright rights under the revised 1987 copyright law, unless their BYU contract specifically states all published papers are the sole property of the university. Do you know if the copyright has been registered with the Library of Congress? The situation certainly presents some pretty sticky legal issues, to be sure. But sorting out the copyright ownership process should be a simple matter, bullyboy BYU attorneys or not: The authors own the copyright, unless their contracts give BYU the rights to all published work. What is the ASAP website URL? Thanks for your information and insight. - Original Message - From: SilverMedicine.org silvermedic...@silvermedicine.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: CSregulations Malcom: Yes, the issue at hand is not the validity of the studies done by the fine microbiologists at Brigham Young University, but rather the administration's attempt to seperate the University from the study done. The testing was not sponsored by the university. Since the testing was done on university property, with university equipment, and done on university paid time, I believe that the university owns the work done, although they do not display any copyrights with the work ( which is part of the problem here ). BYU lawyers have been using strong-arm tactics to try to remove the University's name from the study... and more. They also want to reserve their copyright. However, they refuse to, from what I have seen, acknowledge the copyright in print, in a manner that fits the legal definition of copyright display and notification of infringement. This is certainly not an issue with the staff at BYU... I was told that the head microbiologist only wanted the study available through ASAP, as it was their product that was tested. He did not want other, perhaps inferior products, profiting from the work done -- especially since doing so is truly misrepresenting the work. This is certainly understandable, although while I would term ASAP silver an effective silver, it is hardly one of the best out there. The BYU study information will be forever available through our website. Currently, I simply give a brief synopsis, and link over to ASAP. If ASAP is ever forced to take the study down, I will relocate the data. The problem I have is not with the University's position. The problem I have is with trying to remove information from the public domain, and doing so with unethical methods. I'm a very strong freedom of speech advocate. I have quite a bit of information that I cannot release to the public domain... Respecting those who have done work, that, if it gained too much attention, might jeopardize the work being done. I see this as different from microbiologists granting newspaper interviews, and then a University trying to come up behind and clean it all up for political reasons. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:39 AM Subject: Re: CSregulations They didn't deny it, just insisted it was not for public consumption and any use of it would be met with legal(istic) sanction. I believe Jason (silvermedicine ?? site) has the whole bit including his response to the threat. Ian Roe wrote: Hi: Hasn't the Brigham Young research report already been debunked? I thought the university had denied it entirely. Ian - Original Message - From: James Osbourne, Holmes a...@cybermesa.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:26 PM Subject: RE: CSregulations Go to argentumresearch.com Find some juicy quotes by Dr. Flick, and quote him. Also, find the Brigham Young research report, and quote it. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSBuyer Beware
Paul: You need to hit the books a bit before levelling accusations. There are two factors involved in considering particle sizing with colloidal silver. The one that most people are concerned with is large particles through agglomeration. This happens via inferior production methods, mainly losing control of the reaction. The second is large particles, sparklies and flakes and even dentrites deposited as metallic silver into CS. In this variety, the end quality, whether high or low, is not directly effected. It is extraordinarily hard to eliminate absolutely all flaking in CS production. Some people choose to use a variety of different filtering methods. Some people don't worry about it. Considering TEM's there are two types of opinions: 1. Those who have seen their own TEM, understand the significance of what they are seeing, understand the limitations, and have learned a great deal thereby. 2. Those who have seen their own TEM, didn't like the looks of it, and have therefore declared it irrelevant. Now, Francis Key is right when saying that AAS is entirely superior for particle sizing. I don't believe he is correct when stating it is useless, as the data I've viewed shows a direct correlation between bacterial efficacy ( in-vitro ) and data derived from TEM analysis. In fact, I clearly remember two scientists from Malvern in disagreement as to how valueable TEM would be for this type of analysis. The value in ANY scientific measurement is in the information gained from analysis, not the information NOT gained. When using the same instrumentation, even if it is only a laser light, and applying the measurements accurately across the board, recording the data, analysing the data, and drawing conclusions based on accurate analysis and comparison, a whole world of relevant data can be explored. In the case of TEM's and silver, I find them extremely revealing, and significant as applied to clinical considerations... I don't think a TEM of a particulate silver should be considered in the same light as a predominant CS. I understand Francis' reservations about TEM, especially concerning his own product. I classify Frank's product differently than electro-colloidal silver. Same as I do products made with baking soda They are different, and cannot be equally classified with the same analytical tools. If there were 40 types of particulate silver out there, then I imagine that TEM would be just as revealing to compare differences. I think that Frank would likely have to grudgingly admit this! Awhile ago, I had a TEM done with a combination of silver and natural bentonite. I also had bacterial comparison work done. The result showed that the colloidal silver was about 15% less effective with the natural clay, as studied with a gram negative pathogen. Rather than not understand what I was seeing and getting all upset, screaming to the world how invalid such work was, I studied the information carefully. My study of the work performed answered some key questions. I published the data as is, with a commentary explaining the action of bentonite. It's like that individual who looked at colloidal silver with blood using darkfield microscopy Never understanding the difference between viewing the action of a substance with blood in the body and on a plate... So much ignorance, and no time to address it all. James is right -- simple silver works. He's not correct in assuming that there is no difference. He has no basis to make this claim, and such a claim can bring harm to others. I haven't been studying Trem's silver for that long, and so I certainly don't have any stastically signficant numbers, nor real scientific data beyond my own experience with simple generators and more advanced generators... But my initial work shows that ear infections are reduced more rapidly, and sore throats as well, with alot less silver than I used to use with battery generated CS... Now, one must keep in mind that in my testing, it's either myself I'm testing on or working with those who have already tried allopathic medicine and experienced no results; or have chronic conditions that are never satisfactorily resolved through standard protocols. This is changing with our public outreach program, but in the past, one of my requirements to work with others is that they have already tried the doctor routine. This usually means that there are contributing factors involved... It's not just your average Joe who has a cold... With the ear infection in question, the individual was a small child, and was on a double dose of antibiotics... The pharmacist almost wouldn't fill the Rx script. When I say ear infection, I mean an ear infection that had the child vomiting and thus dehydrated. The infection was brought under control within 24 hours via two 20 minute per ear treatments twice ( a day, in that it was repeated for 3 days ), and the child
Re: CSTo Jason Re: Buyer Beware
Paul: Tem's are normally characterized exactly as specified... Trem was not stretching the truth as you so claim. He was reporting the data as it was reported to him. Those larger particles are irrelevant ( in Trem's case ) when considering colloidal silver effectiveness. If Trem had made microgram calculations of silver content based on the particle range specified, then there would certainly be a considerable issue. In fact, it is likely that there are even smaller particles than the TEM represents... When you do a TEM, you don't search for the smallest particle, list that, then search for the largest particle, and list that. That's not the design or purpose. Doing so would not be characterizing the colloidal silver in a meaningful way. For that depth of analysis, AAS should be used. That's why there's the little measurement gauge on each and every TEM. So the viewer, whom one must assume either understands how to read a TEM, or asks how to read one, can see the standard range. If you were to look at a TEM with significant agglomeration, you'd instantly see the difference. And yes, how the ionic silver evaporates out is truly significant, and differs depending on many factors. But here I'm jumping beyond my level of solid education. I shouldn't have been sarcastic, for that I apologize. If you want to be accurately critical of CS sales, I can point you to several hundred products that deserve that sort of scrutiny... Trem truly is not one of them. Jason - Original Message - From: Paul Ladendorf To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: Re: CSTo Jason Re: Buyer Beware Jason, You need to hit the books a bit before levelling accusations. Please don't put words in my mouth. I made no accusations. What I did was state a fact: Trem claimed that his generator produced .0006 - .005 particle size as confirmed by lab analysis. According to the lab, the report was not consistent with what Trem advertised. Plain and simple. He even admitted that he strettched the truth a bit. Paul -- Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo!
