CSFwd: Re: CS HVAC
Hi Bob, I would like a detailed description of your unit as I have never heard of it. The Motherlode is powered by a 15,000 V transformer encased in a white metal box. Two high voltage leads are inserted into two jacks in the cover of the one gallon brew container. these jacks are approx 5.5cm apart. There are two 3/8 vent holes located just in front of these jacks. Inside the cover one stainless steel wire drops down to a 16 ga silver plate that has a wetted area of 3x5.5cm, the other stainless steel wire goes to a silver wedge, with the pointed side down that is held approx .5cm above the distilled water. Brew time determines strength of approx 3ppm/hour. I normally run three hours. Perfectly clear with a very light to non existent tyndall effect. When swished around in the mouth for 2 or 3 minutes it will etch your teeth. It can be buffered with potassium citrate. Be careful if you use bicarbonate of soda as the CS will become sunlight sensitive and turn reddish in color. How did you measure the pH? I use a digital pH meter. I have been using an analog pH meter Made by Brookstone. I really appreciate your input, Bill Hibernating in the North Country of NY Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
Hi Bob, Would you mind telling me a few things? I am interested in : 1. The quantity of DW used for the run 2. The voltage 3. The size of the submersed electrode I make approx 12 PPM using 1 gal DW, 15,000v, submerged electrode size 1 1/2x 1 x18 ga, 3 hrs run time, arc electrode is a pointed wedge shape approx 3/16 above the water. The end PH is about 4, crystal clear with a very weak TE, Slight ozone smell during production, and a fairly strong metallic taste. Could the residual ozone could be turning the paper brown? Billvan At 17:47 6/4/00 -0500, you wrote: Good Evening Roger; Just queery about HVAC cs. I made some using the arc method and had a 17.6 ppm and a conductance of 1125 in 3 hours! The pH is about 4, and when I sniffed the containor is smelled like nitric acid. I covered the container with a white paper table napkin and in about 3 hours the portion over the CS had taken on a light brown color. The CS is crystal clear with a very weak T.E. What do I have??? Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
In a message dated 00-06-05 01:14:27 EDT, you write: Subj: Re: CS HVAC Date: 00-06-05 01:14:27 EDT From: i...@win.co.nz (Ivan Anderson) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com - Original Message - From: rogalt...@aol.com Ivan: You said, If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), ozone and nitric acid are formed. During sputtering I smell virtually no ozone. I am interested in your idea about nitric acid though. I may submit a sample for analysis. But before I do, I'd like you to tell me the difference in taste between my HVAC CS with a pH of 4 or so, and a sample of laboratory grade nitric acid made to pH ~4. If you agree to a taste test, I'll submit my HVAC CS for nitric acid analysis. The fact that you have generated an arc necessarily means that you have ionised the air. This can be achieved by as little as 50 V. By ionising air you are creating ozone. Whether you can smell it or not is not a reliable guage of its production or concentration. It is a fact that the biggest problem that faces ozone generators using undried atmospheric air is the production of nitric acid. I have no desire to experience the taste of dilute nitric acid :-b Whether you test for nitric acid is up to you. IVAN: WELL YOU PEAKED MY CURIOSITY TO ANALYZE MY HVAC CS FOR NITRIC ACID. Then you said, If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and silver oxide. I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here as well. It can be demonstrated quite easily that silver oxide is unstable at sputtering temperatures. As far a producing silver ions in the arc goes, I have not run across any evidence that an electropotential that is barely high enough to ionize air, is anywhere near the electropotential required to ionize silver. If you have some data that confirms the production of silver ions at ~10,000 volts please pass it along. The 1st ionization potential of silver (7.576 eV) is less than that of oxygen (13.618 eV). IVAN: DO YOU HAVE A REFERENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THE PRODUCTION OF METAL IONS FROM A 10,000 VOLT ARC? Yes, silver oxide is unstable at 150 degC, but the silver oxide which contacts the water is from then on stable. IVAN: THE RAPID QUENCHING THAT TAKES PLACE WILL VIRTUALLY ELIMINATE THE PRODUCTION OF SILVER OXIDE. Furthermore, The pH of silver colloids should fall between 6.5 and 8 because increasing amounts of silver oxide will appear as the pH of the solution falls below 6.5 and silver oxide is a less effective bactericide than pure silver. (The Silver Institute). And finally you said, The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water,... Oh boy, I know I'm on thin ice now, but I'm not likely to agree with you here as well. I sampled a very small amount of 3% H2O2 in my mouth a few weeks ago. A very ugly experience. Again, my HVAC CS tastes a lot like water. So how much H2O2 could I have made, particularly when I never smelled any ozone in the first place? I don't know Roger. I answered Bob's question about what might be causing such a high conductivity reading with a comparatively low silver content. Something is also causing the low pH (assuming he started with ~pH7 water), I suggest that H2O2 and nitric acid may be contributing factors. IVAN: ANALYZING FOR NITRIC ACID SHOULD BE A GOOD FIRST STEP IN SOLVING THE PUZZLE. THANKS. ROGER BTW, I regularly use 3% H2O2 to clean my teeth ;-) Roger Regards, Ivan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
Good Evening Roger; Just queery about HVAC cs. I made some using the arc method and had a 17.6 ppm and a conductance of 1125 in 3 hours! The pH is about 4, and when I sniffed the containor is smelled like nitric acid. I covered the container with a white paper table napkin and in about 3 hours the portion over the CS had taken on a light brown color. The CS is crystal clear with a very weak T.E. What do I have??? Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
Hi there Bob, If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), ozone and nitric acid are formed. If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and silver oxide. The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water, nitric acid will dissolve into the water and these plus the silver and silver oxide will all add to the conductivity reading, I should think. Ivan. - Original Message - From: bober...@swbell.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, 5 June 2000 10:47 Subject: Re: CS HVAC Good Evening Roger; Just queery about HVAC cs. I made some using the arc method and had a 17.6 ppm and a conductance of 1125 in 3 hours! The pH is about 4, and when I sniffed the containor is smelled like nitric acid. I covered the container with a white paper table napkin and in about 3 hours the portion over the CS had taken on a light brown color. The CS is crystal clear with a very weak T.E. What do I have??? Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
In a message dated 00-06-04 21:28:28 EDT, you write: Hi there Bob, Ivan: You said, If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), ozone and nitric acid are formed. During sputtering I smell virtually no ozone. I am interested in your idea about nitric acid though. I may submit a sample for analysis. But before I do, I'd like you to tell me the difference in taste between my HVAC CS with a pH of 4 or so, and a sample of laboratory grade nitric acid made to pH ~4. If you agree to a taste test, I'll submit my HVAC CS for nitric acid analysis. Then you said, If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and silver oxide. I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here as well. It can be demonstrated quite easily that silver oxide is unstable at sputtering temperatures. As far a producing silver ions in the arc goes, I have not run across any evidence that an electropotential that is barely high enough to ionize air, is anywhere near the electropotential required to ionize silver. If you have some data that confirms the production of silver ions at ~10,000 volts please pass it along. And finally you said, The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water,... Oh boy, I know I'm on thin ice now, but I'm not likely to agree with you here as well. I sampled a very small amount of 3% H2O2 in my mouth a few weeks ago. A very ugly experience. Again, my HVAC CS tastes a lot like water. So how much H2O2 could I have made, particularly when I never smelled any ozone in the first place? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS HVAC
- Original Message - From: rogalt...@aol.com Ivan: You said, If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), ozone and nitric acid are formed. During sputtering I smell virtually no ozone. I am interested in your idea about nitric acid though. I may submit a sample for analysis. But before I do, I'd like you to tell me the difference in taste between my HVAC CS with a pH of 4 or so, and a sample of laboratory grade nitric acid made to pH ~4. If you agree to a taste test, I'll submit my HVAC CS for nitric acid analysis. The fact that you have generated an arc necessarily means that you have ionised the air. This can be achieved by as little as 50 V. By ionising air you are creating ozone. Whether you can smell it or not is not a reliable guage of its production or concentration. It is a fact that the biggest problem that faces ozone generators using undried atmospheric air is the production of nitric acid. I have no desire to experience the taste of dilute nitric acid :-b Whether you test for nitric acid is up to you. Then you said, If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and silver oxide. I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here as well. It can be demonstrated quite easily that silver oxide is unstable at sputtering temperatures. As far a producing silver ions in the arc goes, I have not run across any evidence that an electropotential that is barely high enough to ionize air, is anywhere near the electropotential required to ionize silver. If you have some data that confirms the production of silver ions at ~10,000 volts please pass it along. The 1st ionization potential of silver (7.576 eV) is less than that of oxygen (13.618 eV). Yes, silver oxide is unstable at 150 degC, but the silver oxide which contacts the water is from then on stable. Furthermore, The pH of silver colloids should fall between 6.5 and 8 because increasing amounts of silver oxide will appear as the pH of the solution falls below 6.5 and silver oxide is a less effective bactericide than pure silver. (The Silver Institute). And finally you said, The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water,... Oh boy, I know I'm on thin ice now, but I'm not likely to agree with you here as well. I sampled a very small amount of 3% H2O2 in my mouth a few weeks ago. A very ugly experience. Again, my HVAC CS tastes a lot like water. So how much H2O2 could I have made, particularly when I never smelled any ozone in the first place? I don't know Roger. I answered Bob's question about what might be causing such a high conductivity reading with a comparatively low silver content. Something is also causing the low pH (assuming he started with ~pH7 water), I suggest that H2O2 and nitric acid may be contributing factors. BTW, I regularly use 3% H2O2 to clean my teeth ;-) Roger Regards, Ivan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
