Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Mark Siepak]

Marshall, a couple of days ago, part of one post you made stated:

4. 2 tsp. of MSM per day. Sulfur (MSM) binds with silver and can help to
pull it from the body.

So should I take my CS at a different time than my MSM? I take MSM 2000 3x a
day with meals usually, quite often swishing with CS while I get the
supplements together, run water, feed the cats, etc. Then follow the CS with
Supplements, including the MSM. I guess the MSM binds the CS immediately (?)
so I don't get the benefit from either?

Thanks for all your knowledge-sharing in the past!

Mark


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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Ode Coyote]

  Rain is natures distilled water.
If it's collected on a clean surface after it has rained for a while 
[cleaned up the air], it can be pretty darned pure.


I collect it off a tin roof for my ultrasonic humidifier. The last batch 
was 5 gallons of snow melt collected in a drum with a cup of wood ash 
accidently spilled into it...not letting the roof rinse off first. [How do 
you rinse with snow? ]

Even that was only 25 uS.

Ode


At 07:14 AM 2/5/2007 +0005, you wrote:


The rainwater is probably pretty "soft" (not a lot of minerals), but
I'd guess that you're risk is low because of the conservative amounts
you are taking. Your experience qualifies as an example of "silver as
trace nutrient" more often than "silver as medicinal."

How do you make it, Tony? What's your generator setup?

Be well,

Mike D.

> Hi All,
>
> I do not use distilled water for making EIS. I have making and using EIS
> for about 10 years. I don't use a lot of it, just take some in my
> drinking water and extra when I have a cold coming on or if I have eaten
> something which has upset me or have had a tick or insect bite. But I
> make it with rain water off the roof and from well water for the past 4
> years. And before that made it for about 6 years from Cape Town city
> chlorinated water.  No sign of blue skin or fingernails anywhere on me.
> I have about a cup per week most times and am in the sun quite a lot.
>
> All best,
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 4 Feb 2007 at 8:25, Gina Gomes wrote about :
> Subject : Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia
>
> >
> > Hello Everyone
> >
> > I am totally new to colloidal silver. Can someone explain to me what
> > causes Argyria? Is it really due to not using distilled water?
> >
> > Why would anyone want to take anything other than food and water and
> > oxygen indefintely?
> >
> > Are there things that can be done to reverse it if it does happen?
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> >
> >
> >
> > Deborah Gerard  wrote:
> > Hey that is a huge group over there (5) people...grandkids,
> > parents, cats, and myself have
> > not had any problemsdeb
> >
> > argyriavic...@aol.com wrote:
> > Oops, sorry for some reason this didn't go to the list and it
> > went to bronco himself.
> > This is to correct the problem. I am just another person this
> > list caused to get
> > Argyria due to their beliefs of CS. I can't give any details on
> > my problem because at
> > this time there is an attorney working on my case and many
> > others who have had
> > Argyria happen. But this is not Rosemary, this is a case that
> > has occurred in the last
> > several years and not years ago before they knew what they were
> > doing as many try
> > to say.
> >
> > ArgyriaVictim
> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Argyria/
> > From: argyriavic...@aol.com
> > Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 19:47:02 EST
> > Subject: Re: CS>Agryia
> > To: bro...@gtcinternet.com
> >
> > In a message dated 2/3/2007 5:31:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > bro...@gtcinternet.com writes: Rosemary, how interesting to hear
> > from you again. Still got the
> > anger
> > problem, eh? Hope you and yours are well, please do stop by
> > again
> > sometime.
> >
> > NOT.
> >
> >
> > Sorry to disappoint you but this is not Rosemary. Thank you!
> > Once again you
> > have been proven wrong. Rosemary would have signed Rosemary.
> >
> >
> >
> > ArgyriaVictim
> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Argyria/
> >
> >
> > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try
> > it now.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>
>
>
> --
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>
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>
>

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]




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RE: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[bob Larson]

...will not silver ions that make their way into the blood turn into silver
chloride quickly or immediately due to plentiful supply of Cl in the blood
at all times?

> -Original Message-
> From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 1:30 PM
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia
>
>
> Gina Gomes wrote:
> > I'm waiting for someone to explain to me what causes Agryia and what
> > are the known ways to reverse it.
>
> As most people know, silver is used as the photo-sensitive ingredient in
> almost all photographic processes. Silver compounds, when exposed to
> light, will often result in the silver being reduced to atomic or
> metallic silver. Then in the presence of a developer, any silver
> compounds that contact the silver particles will also undergo a
> reduction reaction, enlarging the silver particle.
>
> While this process is essential to photography, it is undesirable in the
> skin of a person. It is thought by many that the reason that the royalty
> long ago were called blue bloods is because the silver from the goblets
> and wares would react with acids in their drinks and foods, then
> precipitate out in their skin giving them a bluish color. It is known
> that consumption of silver compounds, such as silver nitrate, followed
> by exposure to sunlight can result in a graying or bluing of the skin, a
> medical condition called argyria (2). As it turns out, a number of
> chemicals that can appear in the blood make quite effective developers.
> Caffeine and tannin are just two of them (3).
>
> Fortunately, colloidal silver, when made by the electrolytic process in
> pure distilled water without any salts being added, produces no silver
> salts. Thus, silver plating out of colloidal silver is not possible; the
> silver particles are already reduced to pure silver, and are mutually
> repulsed, because of their positive charges.
>
>
>  Silver salts do and can cause argyria, that is not in
> dispute.  The physics is well known and is experienced by everyone as
> the standard photographic process.  Silver
> salts when exposed to light gain an electron producing a silver atom.
> Then the silver atom (known as the latent
> image in film), will grow when exposed to additional silver salts and a
> developer in an alkaline solution (known as
> development in photography). When the silver particles grow
> sufficiently, they will begin absorbing light and causing
> a darkening of the area, whether in a photographic print, or the skin of
> an animal.  It is impossible to make a
> photograph using silver particles to start with, that is the end result
> (and if you leave a dark photo which is dark
> because it has particles in the emulsion in the light over time it will
> tend to fade, not darken).  Likewise it is
> impossible to cause argyria using colloidal silver which IS silver
> particles already.  Silver compounds and silver
> colloid have nothing in common as far as argyria is concerned, and
> despite what many claim colloidal silver does not
> only not cause argyria, it can be an effective prophylactic against
> argyria. That is if colloidal silver is taken with silver
> salts there will be a reduced likelihood of argyria from the salts. The
> following reference (5) uses IES to
> mean Electrolytically Isolated Silver, which is a combination of both
> colloidal silver and ionic silver that
>
> What happens when you take silver compounds.
> A silver compound will typically become silver chloride as soon as it hits
> the stomach.  The silver chloride
> is sparingly soluble, about .8 ppm.  The dissolved silver
> chloride will move
> into the blood stream and once there will be exposed
> to chemicals that will induce the silver to plate out on any other silver
> particles present.  However initially there will be no other
> silver particles present, so the silver chloride circulates in the blood
> until exposed to light in the skin, where they are photo
> reduced to silver atoms. This is the photographic process that occurs when
> you take a picture (with a film camera).  Once the silver atoms
> are produced
> in the skin, then the rest of the silver chloride will begin reducing onto
> those particles making them grow very fast, and resulting in many of them
> getting stuck in the skin.  Since the particles are so small, they will
> appear as black or blue, giving the skin a bluish cast.  This is called
> argyria, and can result from taking silver compounds without any colloidal
> component.
>
> >
> > If it were 't for my e-mail friend who told me to do research before
> > taking  colloidal silver, I would not have known there was such a thing.
> Every

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Jonathan B. Britten]

I will state strongly that the statements made against this group are 
false and libelous.   When the archives are eventually restored, it 
will be readily demonstrable that long-time members of this list have 
had ample opportunity to learn about argyria.   I have made posting on 
this topic myself, following correspondence with Rosemary Jacobs.   
There have been innumerable threads about this argyria.


Topics here shift constantly.   This site is an exchange for 
information between list members, and not a fixed source of 
information.To state that anyone on the list is "not honest and 
upfront" indicates a flawed understanding of the very nature of the 
sliver list.   This comment below is inflammatory and most unwelcome.





On Monday, Feb 5, 2007, at 09:01 Asia/Tokyo, Gina Gomes wrote:

I agree that the word Argyria is new to me also.  I joined this group 
to educate myself before taking CS but I am finding out that people 
are not honest and upfront about any of the risks.




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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Jonathan B. Britten]

A few ideas that might be worth pondering:

1)	Dr. Y. Omura, MD., claims that Chinese Parsley (cilantro) 
effectively scavenges metals from the body.   Adding this to the 
regimen might accelerate the results.


2)	I just read today that chlorella is also very good at binding to 
metals and other toxins in vivo.   This food, like cilantro, could be 
combined with Jason's therapy at no risk, and might help.


3)	FIR saunas are amazing and might be easier for many users to access 
than steam saunas, given that home units are not very expensive.FIR 
saunas have a strong effect on the dermal tissues are produce COPIUS 
perspiration.


Food for thought . . .




On Monday, Feb 5, 2007, at 07:24 Asia/Tokyo, Jason wrote:

Depending upon your exposure level, it might take from six months to 
several years to reverse.  Taking selenium and Vitamin E is not 
enough... not without plenty of water, and the recommended sea 
supplements.  Steam sauna therapy greatly increases the ability of the 
body to eliminate silver, but ONLY once the silver begins to seperate 
from the dermal tissues.



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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

Could be, we have been warning others about that product for years.

Marshall


dbl...@cfl.rr.com wrote:

Jason,
There was an agryia victim on another CS list a few months ago who 
said she got her CS from Water Oz, she also knew of several other 
people who had the same problem from their CS.  technically water oz 
does not sell CS,  they call it minerized water or something like 
that.  I knew when I looked at their prices it was something to beware 
of, way, way too cheap to be of any value, and sure enough it turns 
out that it is too good to be true.  I wonder if our current victim is 
one of those who are in the group of Water Oz law suits?

Nancy...
 


-
Hi Argyria Victim:
 
Finally, your true agenda shows ( locating other sufferers for the
attorney's class action suit ). 
 
I do wish you the best of luck, I believe the company you are

trying to sue deserves it.
 
I know I stated I wouldn't speak for you, but I'm tired of the

double talk.
 
The company in question is either ENIVA Corporation or Invive. 
Sorry, I sometimes get the two companies confused.
 
I've seen Eniva distributors marketing silver at quoted 8,000

PPM Some have even claimed to sell a monoatomic silver.  The
Eniva bottle I've seen claims to be 275 PPM, but Stephen Quinto
measured it at 325 PPM, with a PH of just over 5.4.
 
Envive markets an MSP up to 5,000 PPM.
 
Of course, we've been warning people about products such as these
for YEARS. 
 
Eniva Corporation has apparently removed their silver product

their corporate website and member subdomains, so maybe they are
pulling it off of the market ( finally ).
 
Both Envive silver and ENIVA silver place users at a very great

risk for argyria.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Jason






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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[dblack]

Jason,
There was an agryia victim on another CS list a few months ago who said she got 
her CS from Water Oz, she also knew of several other people who had the same 
problem from their CS.  technically water oz does not sell CS,  they call it 
minerized water or something like that.  I knew when I looked at their prices 
it was something to beware of, way, way too cheap to be of any value, and sure 
enough it turns out that it is too good to be true.  I wonder if our current 
victim is one of those who are in the group of Water Oz law suits?
Nancy...

  - 
  Hi Argyria Victim:

  Finally, your true agenda shows ( locating other sufferers for the attorney's 
class action suit ).  

  I do wish you the best of luck, I believe the company you are trying to sue 
deserves it.

  I know I stated I wouldn't speak for you, but I'm tired of the double talk.

  The company in question is either ENIVA Corporation or Invive.  Sorry, I 
sometimes get the two companies confused.

  I've seen Eniva distributors marketing silver at quoted 8,000 PPM Some 
have even claimed to sell a monoatomic silver.  The Eniva bottle I've seen 
claims to be 275 PPM, but Stephen Quinto measured it at 325 PPM, with a PH of 
just over 5.4.

  Envive markets an MSP up to 5,000 PPM.

  Of course, we've been warning people about products such as these for YEARS.  

  Eniva Corporation has apparently removed their silver product their corporate 
website and member subdomains, so maybe they are pulling it off of the market ( 
finally ).

  Both Envive silver and ENIVA silver place users at a very great risk for 
argyria.

  Kind Regards,

  Jason

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[WSims21675]

I am new to this group. I know people that have had herpes and a lot of  
other diseases that CS has taken care of. This group is alright with us. They  
answered the questions that I asked and they were right on Q. I have been taken 
 
CS for years and I am feeling great. If I catch a cold it only lasts a day or  
so. It seems that we are untouchable to colds. I could go on and on. But as 
far  as this Agryia goes, I still have my same color but is feeling 
goodd.  This is my 2 cents.

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

Gina Gomes wrote:
I agree that the word Argyria is new to me also.  I joined this group 
to educate myself before taking CS but I am finding out that people 
are not honest and upfront about any of the risks.


Are you talking about the people on this list? You might find 
disagreement, but I have found the people on this list to be as honest 
as any group of people I have ever met.  Do you have any particular 
thing where you think someone here was not honest or upfront about?  It 
was likely a misunderstanding that can be easily corrected if we know 
what it was.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

argyriavic...@aol.com wrote:
Thank you Jason.  Would you believe all the years I have been lurking 
in these silver groups under different names this is the first time I 
have heard this company even mentioned in them.  I don't believe that 
any of the groups warn people of the risks.  Certainly not like they 
should anyway.  The groups all try to avoid the word Argyria.  There 
is still more companies and this one is not the only one that has 
caused it.  But thank you for your honesty.
 


That bit of statement really shows you have not hung around this group. 
Argyria has been discussed extensively in the past openly and honestly.  
We have warned anyone who has indicated they are taking this form of 
silver as well as others every single time we have found out someone was 
considering it, to not take it, it will cause argyria. If you have been 
hanging around this group and took it anyway, after all the warnings 
that have been given in this group over the years, you have no one but 
yourself to blame. We can warn people, but we cannot make them do 
whatever they do.  You might not have heard that specific company's 
name, but all the time we tell people that:


1. Any stable silver preparation that is over 30 ppm is not colloidal 
silver, and is going to be either a silver compound or MSP.
2. All silver compounds and MSP will cause argyris, some of the very 
quickly.
3. Never take any of 1 or 2 above, or you will get argyria if you take 
sufficient quantities of it for a long enough time.


You initially come in here claiming to have taken properly made 
colloidal silver and it caused argyria for you and others. We now find 
out that you took a product we warn others to not take because it will 
cause argyria, and then tried to blame it on properly made colloidal 
silver.  You are losing credibility fast here.


Marshall



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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

Gina Gomes wrote:
I'm waiting for someone to explain to me what causes Agryia and what 
are the known ways to reverse it.


As most people know, silver is used as the photo-sensitive ingredient in 
almost all photographic processes. Silver compounds, when exposed to 
light, will often result in the silver being reduced to atomic or 
metallic silver. Then in the presence of a developer, any silver 
compounds that contact the silver particles will also undergo a 
reduction reaction, enlarging the silver particle.


While this process is essential to photography, it is undesirable in the 
skin of a person. It is thought by many that the reason that the royalty 
long ago were called blue bloods is because the silver from the goblets 
and wares would react with acids in their drinks and foods, then 
precipitate out in their skin giving them a bluish color. It is known 
that consumption of silver compounds, such as silver nitrate, followed 
by exposure to sunlight can result in a graying or bluing of the skin, a 
medical condition called argyria (2). As it turns out, a number of 
chemicals that can appear in the blood make quite effective developers. 
Caffeine and tannin are just two of them (3).


Fortunately, colloidal silver, when made by the electrolytic process in 
pure distilled water without any salts being added, produces no silver 
salts. Thus, silver plating out of colloidal silver is not possible; the 
silver particles are already reduced to pure silver, and are mutually 
repulsed, because of their positive charges.



Silver salts do and can cause argyria, that is not in
dispute.  The physics is well known and is experienced by everyone as 
the standard photographic process.  Silver
salts when exposed to light gain an electron producing a silver atom. 
Then the silver atom (known as the latent
image in film), will grow when exposed to additional silver salts and a 
developer in an alkaline solution (known as
development in photography). When the silver particles grow 
sufficiently, they will begin absorbing light and causing
a darkening of the area, whether in a photographic print, or the skin of 
an animal.  It is impossible to make a
photograph using silver particles to start with, that is the end result 
(and if you leave a dark photo which is dark
because it has particles in the emulsion in the light over time it will 
tend to fade, not darken).  Likewise it is
impossible to cause argyria using colloidal silver which IS silver 
particles already.  Silver compounds and silver  
colloid have nothing in common as far as argyria is concerned, and 
despite what many claim colloidal silver does not
only not cause argyria, it can be an effective prophylactic against 
argyria. That is if colloidal silver is taken with silver
salts there will be a reduced likelihood of argyria from the salts. The 
following reference (5) uses IES to
mean Electrolytically Isolated Silver, which is a combination of both 
colloidal silver and ionic silver that


What happens when you take silver compounds.
A silver compound will typically become silver chloride as soon as it hits
the stomach.  The silver chloride
is sparingly soluble, about .8 ppm.  The dissolved silver chloride will move
into the blood stream and once there will be exposed
to chemicals that will induce the silver to plate out on any other silver
particles present.  However initially there will be no other
silver particles present, so the silver chloride circulates in the blood
until exposed to light in the skin, where they are photo
reduced to silver atoms. This is the photographic process that occurs when
you take a picture (with a film camera).  Once the silver atoms are produced
in the skin, then the rest of the silver chloride will begin reducing onto
those particles making them grow very fast, and resulting in many of them
getting stuck in the skin.  Since the particles are so small, they will
appear as black or blue, giving the skin a bluish cast.  This is called
argyria, and can result from taking silver compounds without any colloidal
component.

 
If it were 't for my e-mail friend who told me to do research before 
taking  colloidal silver, I would not have known there was such a thing.
Everyone here is aware that silver salts can cause argyria. We are 
normally only concerned with it when newcomers come in and are taking 
are making silver salts.
 
As long as someone does not explain this, then I am being kept in the 
dark and then when my skin turns grey who do I blame?
If one is concerned, they should watch themselves closely in the 
mirror.  Also they should take sufficient quantities of selenium and 
vitamin E both of which have evidence as a prophylactic.
 
So is agryia really superficial?

It is cosmetic.  Some might consider that superficial, and some might not.

Marshall



*/argyriavic...@aol.com/* wrote:

In a message dated 2/4/2007 12:11:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,
itisi...@cox.net writes:

Therefore your above stat

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

Well heck, if that is what they were using, argyria is expected (as has 
been warned here for years), and that it does not work well is expected 
as well.  He came in here saying it was colloidal silver, now we find 
out it was nothing more than what we have been saying can cause argyria 
and does not work all along.  Anything stable that is over 30 ppm cannot 
be colloidal silver, and is thus a scam.  Sounds like the same tactics 
that the FDA uses.


Marshall

Jason wrote:

Hi Argyria Victim:
 
Finally, your true agenda shows ( locating other sufferers for the 
attorney's class action suit ). 
 
I do wish you the best of luck, I believe the company you are trying 
to sue deserves it.
 
I know I stated I wouldn't speak for you, but I'm tired of the double 
talk.
 
The company in question is either ENIVA Corporation or Invive.  Sorry, 
I sometimes get the two companies confused.
 
I've seen Eniva distributors marketing silver at quoted 8,000 PPM 
Some have even claimed to sell a monoatomic silver.  The Eniva bottle 
I've seen claims to be 275 PPM, but Stephen Quinto measured it at 325 
PPM, with a PH of just over 5.4.
 
Envive markets an MSP up to 5,000 PPM.
 
Of course, we've been warning people about products such as these for 
YEARS. 
 
Eniva Corporation has apparently removed their silver product their 
corporate website and member subdomains, so maybe they are pulling it 
off of the market ( finally ).
 
Both Envive silver and ENIVA silver place users at a very great risk 
for argyria.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Jason


- Original Message -
*From:* argyriavic...@aol.com <mailto:argyriavic...@aol.com>
*To:* silver-list@eskimo.com <mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:43 AM
*Subject:* Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

In a message dated 2/4/2007 1:31:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
ral...@highpowermagneticpulser.com
<mailto:ral...@highpowermagneticpulser.com> writes:

The moment you decide to treat yourself, your taking your own
risks.  Who are you going to sue??.yourself?  Grow up and
take responsibility for your own actions.  Robb

The company I bought the stuff from that has gone on to cause many
many others to have it also. 
 
*ArgyriaVictim

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Argyria/*





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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

argyriavic...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 2/4/2007 1:31:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
ral...@highpowermagneticpulser.com writes:


The moment you decide to treat yourself, your taking your own
risks.  Who are you going to sue??.yourself?  Grow up and take
responsibility for your own actions.  Robb

The company I bought the stuff from that has gone on to cause many 
many others to have it also. 
 
*ArgyriaVictim

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Argyria/*
For heaven sakes, tell us who it is  Why are you protecting them?  
So you can get more victims for a lawsuit!  We need to protect others, 
please tell us who the manufacturer is so we can warn others.  We know a 
number of companies peddling junk and claiming it is pure CS already, 
such as wateroz, and would be very grateful if you let us know who it 
is. We would obtain some, and do a chemical analysis of their product.  
Such an analysis might help you as well.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia / A question

[Marshall Dudley]

vwol...@aol.com wrote:
Is there a possibility that certain peoples body chemistry cannot 
handle the CS?
No one is any one way across the board...maybe there are some who 
cannot assimilate (is that the word?) the CS properlyJust a 
thoughtV.
 
 


It is a fact that one's body chemistry and other attributes can make 
things more or less toxic, and more or less therapeutic.  Also research 
on argyria using silver salts has shown that some people are much more 
likely to get it than others.  There are some differences that seem to 
be significant, such as a deficiency in selenium and/or vitamin E.  
Whether there are other factors is not known as far as I can tell.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Marshall Dudley]

Gina Gomes wrote:

Hello Everyone
 
I am totally new to colloidal silver.  Can someone explain to me what 
causes Argyria?  Is it really due to not using distilled water?


*What is this about Argyria?*

As outlined above argyria is caused by the photographic process. Silver 
salts/compounds are exposed to light in the skin and reduced to silver 
atoms. If the level of salts is sufficiently low, the atoms are swept 
out of the skin by the blood flow and everything is fine. If however the 
level of salts in the blood is over some minimum level the atoms will 
increase in size as the silver salts plate out on them, growing so 
rapidly that they will become stuck in the tissues. This is the 
photographic development process. To prevent argyria it is essential to 
keep blood levels of silver compounds below a threshold value. This is 
done by taking a combination of both silver compounds and colloidal 
silver (the composition of EIS), so that when the silver salts plate 
out, there are huge numbers of silver particles in the colloid present 
so that growth of any particle (even those formed in the skin by the 
sun) is minimized, and no particle grows large enough to get stuck.


Some people who have taken large amounts of IES (several quarts or more 
a day) have reported blueing of the moons of their fingernails. This can 
occur when the level of EIS exceeds some amount, which seems to vary 
depending on the person, and whether they are deficient in vitamin E and 
selenium or not. Vitamin E and selenium have a prophylactic effect on 
argyria, and on the blueing of the fingernail roots. Apparently taking 
silver over time can also cause a loss of selenium and even a 
deficiency. If you take EIS over long periods of time it is suggested 
that you supplement your selenium intake ( Natural sources of selenuim 
are listed at Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Selenium 
, and Brazil nuts are 
very high in selenium). Anyway, the body disposes of silver by several 
routes ( see http://www.silvermedicine.org/AltmanStudy.pdf ), the 
kidneys, the liver, sweating, and by putting metals into hair and nails. 
The body collects excess amounts of metals in the nail bed to allow it 
to put those in the nails. If concentrations exceed some amount in the 
nail bed, then aggregation can occur, causing the nail bed to turn blue. 
Although this appears to be argyria of the fingernail moons, the 
mechanism is totally different. Also it is probably a pretty good 
warning that you might be taking more silver than you should, and unless 
you are taking it for a cronic condition, should cut back, and/or you 
should supplement with selenium.


Note that although the medical community considers argyria permanent, 
there have been some successes reported by taking selenium, Vitamin E 
and Vitamin C. Because of the nature of argyria, EIS will not cause 
argyria, but can make it worse if you already have it. The reason is 
that EIS contains particles that quickly reduce any silver salt levels 
in the blood so that any silver seed particles formed in the skin are 
unable to grow enough to get stuck. However if you already have 
particles in the skin that are stuck, then ANY silver compounds in the 
blood at all will over time plate out on those particles making them 
grow even larger. That is why some people who have gotten argyria (from 
other sources than EIS, such as silver citrate, attempting to make EIS 
with tap water, silver nitrate nose drops, silver acetate smoking 
gum/lozenge or MSP) and have managed to get rid of the argyria's color 
using selenium, vitamin A and C, find that it tends to return even when 
taking high quality EIS. That is because the protocol is reducing the 
particle sizes to where they no longer absorb light, but not to the 
point of getting them unstuck in the skin. If the protocol is continued 
without any silver intake over a long enough period it might be possible 
to eliminte these seed particles completely, but at this point there is 
no data on this.


There have been reports that the following protocol is capable of 
eliminating argyria:


This protocol is found at http://www.silverprotects.com/argyria.html

1. 200mcg of selenium per day is a safe supplement to take on an ongoing 
basis.
2. He also advises a high-quality,* mixed vitamin E, at 1000 IU per day 
for people over 50 years of age who may be at risk of stroke, and 2,000 
IU per day for people under 50 who are not at risk of stroke. I told Dr. 
Gruenn that I was taking 4,000 IU a day. He replied that this was still 
safe for a strong healthy person. The danger of high doses of vitamin E 
is that it thins the blood. This could be dangerous in many situations 
where bleeding is hard to stop.
3. Personally, I would also drink lots of water, simply because that's 
how the body clears out debris. No one knows if this therapy will prove 
efficacious, or if it does in how many cases. If my liver spots are any 

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Ode Coyote]

 You get Agyria from "retaining" more than [3 grams? ] of silver in an 
average human body mass.
If the elimination system is normal, the elimination rate is around 94-99% 
in 48 hours. [Phalen and Morrow, Newton and Holmes, EPA ]
 Back when the links to studies on Rosemary Jacobs website actually 
worked, I went and read them.  [They don't appear to even exist now]
 Rather than back up her story, they more tended to disprove it, or at 
least, make her case an extreme oddity. [and she never used "EIS"  She 
"may" have used MSP or as she describes it *these days*, "CSP" or Colloidal 
Silver Protein which is in itself a distortion of the true description of 
that substance *Mild Silver Protein* which is by no means what "we" make 
and use.  MSP is often sold at a thousand PPM and more.  But the fact is, 
Rosemary doesn't know what she used...daily, sometimes hourly for many many 
many years. ]
First, there were ZERO studies that dealt with "CS".  Even though the cover 
page pasted over all those studies was entitled "CS", NONE even mentioned it.
 Second, All the studies were attempts to induce Agyria using preparations 
designed to do so, and failure to do so was the norm, not even close to 
being a rule.
One scientist, expressing extreme frustration, went to the silver 
processing and mining industry in search of victims to study.
He found the rate to be historically 1 in 2,000 and no current cases to 
study. [Absenteeism from illness was below industrial norms though]


 ANY form of silver has a retention rate, some more than others...some 
means of ingestion takes longer to eliminate. [Inhaled dose of silver dust, 
90% in 30 days ]
BTW, no one seems to mention anything about the continued elimination rates 
beyond 24 hours or 30 days, or what part of the studied time span has the 
highest rates if it's not a constant rate.

BUT
 At 20 PPM and under, no normally functioning person lives long enough to 
retain even close to 3 grams nor is it possible without dying on the first 
day of trying to overwhelm a normal system due to the toxicity of water.


 Those who turn blue either have a rare elimination problem and/or [mostly 
and] are making/taking CS that's way too strong, too much,  too often, for 
too long.
Making "EIS" with distilled water that looks like something you'd give a 
dog is very difficult to do at over 30 PPM...somewhat difficult at 20 
PPM.  Decent looking "EIS" is usually 10-12 PPM and under. [EIS defined as 
electrically isolated silver in pure water ]
 Some people have made and over used what we call "mud" which could be 
hundreds or thousands of PPM.


 Others think they are using something they aren't, like silver citrate or 
mild silver protein, again, way too strong, too much for too long...and 
[generally]...have a metals elimination problem...generally... related to a 
Selenium deficiency.


Even at that, Agyria is pretty rare.

 If you don't use distilled water, you don't know what forms of silver you 
are making or how strong it is.
Mis-information about how strong a given process makes it over a given 
period of time has been far more common than anything else for 
decades...mostly consisting of 1 PPM per minute when really it's more like 
1 PPM per minute, per minute, per OZ of water and using impure water or 
adding even a few salt crystals can put you anywhere on the acceleration 
curve including 1 PPM per second per OZ going exponentially higher every 
second. [At that rate, you'll likely get a thick brown/black emulation in 
under 2 minutes and I have a $150 generator made in the 80s that does just 
that.makes dangerous black crap, fast! ]
 Even the small differences in purity of distilled water can throw 
predictions way way off.


Some report improvement by supplementing Selenium and vitamin E

People who are desperate and dying, or disease paranoid are the ones who 
use CS excessively.

 If it doesn't work, they may well not live long enough to turn blue.
 If it does, "Better blue than dead"and probably won't turn blue 
anyway as the odds are against it even when over using very strong 
preparations.


 For a safety comparison,  Aspirin kills +/- 500 people a year.
 I can't even find an occurrence figure for Agyria.

Basically, while someone who says they turned blue is not to be ignored, 
specifics are an absolute necessity in order to take it seriously in proper 
application of information.
 " I am blue but can't tell you how I got that way for legal reasons" 
...just doesn't cut it. [ I guess we'll have to wait ]


[Not that any of this is intended to represent a conclusion, it is some 
sort of indication]

 General Google search:

Results 1 - 10 of about 27,400 for agyria

Classical lissencephaly, also known as lissencephaly type I, is a brain 
malformation that may occur as an isolated abnormality (isolated 
lissencephaly sequence [ILS]) or in association with certain underlying 
syndromes (e.g., Miller-Dieker syndrome, Norman-Roberts syndrome). The 
cond

Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia

[Dee]

I don't really think after all that's been said by Terry, Mike and all the
others, that you will ever be convinced.  This list is non profit making  
and full of people who have the actual experience of taking EIS.  I take it
to help with sore throats and 'flu, sickness, eye problems, wounds etc.,  I
also use it for my dogs.  I don't consume it daily but have done with chest
infections.  I have many friends who use it also, and not one of us has ever
had a problem and we have been using it for two or three years now.  AV has
I think, an agenda, but if you want to believe her then that is your
prerogative, but if you decide *not* to use it then you will be losing a
marvellous 'assistant' to your well being.  Regards, Dee 
 
---Original Message---
 
From: Gina Gomes
Date: 04/02/2007 21:45:55
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Fwd: CS>Agryia
 
I sure wish there were scientific studies I could trust.
 
Even the FDA is not trustworthy.
 
If I decide to take colloidal silver, I will take it for a week or two.  I
am not one to take anything everyday.  Only recently have I started taking
calcium and fish oil on a daily basis.  
 
We liive in a world where most people do whatever it takes to make money
including deceiving people.  Most people don't care who gets hurt.  If they
get hurt, they want other people to get hurt also.