Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Renee]

Well shoot. :-(  I know the walgreen's water here use to be really good, as
I tested it with my meter.  Then they switched suppliers and it got really
bad.  So I was hoping the Walmart one would be good.  Now I don't have a way
of testing it.

Samala,
Renee

---Original Message---
 
 
   Other than brands having different standards to meet, all distilled
water is done locally and distributed to several
brands...therefore,  Walgreens here may well have NO relationship to
Walgreens there.  Same with any brand.
  

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[GARY ABEL]

Phew,  Ok Tony.  I think I read you ok now.

Thanks,  Gary





From: Tony Moody 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:24:49 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

Well ! ,

I was trying to do you the courtesy of a reply after having asked you for
info ; before the phones went down here due to an approaching
thunderstorm Along with my other regular stuff. I wasn't being terse to
get you revved up; I was being quick so that I could get things done.

OK,
Tony





On 9 Mar 2010 at 13:24, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> What's that supposed to mean?  An answer that short and terse leaves no
> room for reading your intent.  It appears to have sarcasm but I may be
> wrong, so I would need you to say exactly so I'm not assuming wrong.   I'm
> on this list to get a diversity of opinions and learn what I can.
>
> Thanks,  Gary 
>




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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tony Moody]

Well ! ,

I was trying to do you the courtesy of a reply after having asked you for
info ; before the phones went down here due to an approaching
thunderstorm Along with my other regular stuff. I wasn't being terse to
get you revved up; I was being quick so that I could get things done.

OK,
Tony





On 9 Mar 2010 at 13:24, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> What's that supposed to mean?  An answer that short and terse leaves no
> room for reading your intent.  It appears to have sarcasm but I may be
> wrong, so I would need you to say exactly so I'm not assuming wrong.   I'm
> on this list to get a diversity of opinions and learn what I can.
>
> Thanks,  Gary 
>




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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Kirsteen put me on to it but I believe there are others just as cheap and as 
good.  Are you in the US because if so, there are many other makes which are 
just as cheap and as good.  I have not heard of a green laser--only a red one 
and I got mine from Ode. dee

On 10 Mar 2010, at 16:29, Leslie wrote:

> How do I find out about the OdeV distiller? Sounds interesting. Also, would 
> like to know what benefit a red laser pointer would have or a green one? 
> Leslie
> 
> 
> 


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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[sol]

Ode Coyote wrote:
  Other than brands having different standards to meet, all distilled 
water is done locally and distributed to several brands...therefore,  
Walgreens here may well have NO relationship to Walgreens there.  Same 
with any brand.
 I use Food Loin house brand here in NC with good results, but have 
poor results with it bought in S Carolina.
It's simply not the same...and another band in SC could be the very 
same water..or not.
  I bought a distiller some years ago because the commercial distilled 
water of all brands here was so variable, about 2 jugs out of every 3 
would make yellow to very yellow EIS. Most months of a year I had to 
double distill to get DW pure enough to produce clear EIS.
  6 or 7 years later the distiller effectively died, and we are now 
purchasing distilled water again, in 2.5 gallon jugs. This water reads 
higher than I could use when I was distilling it myself, but the source 
of the commercial water is not local (perhaps it used to be). So far as 
the different brands have the info on the label, all brands available 
now come from the same distilling company. It makes reliably clear EIS 
consistently, so we have not replaced the still, and won't unless the 
commercial DW changes again.

sol



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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Leslie]

How do I find out about the OdeV distiller? Sounds interesting. Also, would 
like to know what benefit a red laser pointer would have or a green one? Leslie



- Original Message 
From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 8:44:43 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

I distill my own and get perfect results every time i.e 000 on my TDS meter.  I 
have the OdeV distiller which was cheap and is even cheaper in the US.  dee

On 9 Mar 2010, at 22:39, Renee wrote:

> Hey Tel.  Which brand of the water do you buy now at Walmart.  I had a meter 
> and you are right about the Walgreens.  It use to be really good, then got 
> really bad.  But my meter broke so now I can't tell what is going on with the 
> water I buy.  I can't really find any that say steam distilled anymore 
> either.  They all say distilled, or worse, purified.
>  
> But I will check to see if our walmart carries the brand you buy when you let 
> me know.
>  
> Samala,
> Renee
>  


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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Ode Coyote]

  Other than brands having different standards to meet, all distilled 
water is done locally and distributed to several 
brands...therefore,  Walgreens here may well have NO relationship to 
Walgreens there.  Same with any brand.
 I use Food Loin house brand here in NC with good results, but have poor 
results with it bought in S Carolina.
It's simply not the same...and another band in SC could be the very same 
water..or not.


Ode


At 06:00 PM 3/9/2010 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks Tel.  I'll go tomorrow and see if our store carries it.  Great 
Value is their own brand, I think?  It use to be Walgreens own brand was 
the best one, but then they switched companies--the clerk told me, and 
that's when the water went downhill.


Samala,
Renee

---Original Message---

The Walmart Distilled water is called (Great Value )  on the shelf where 
drinking water is..it comes from California,



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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Ode Coyote]

  TDS or PPM [calculated for sodium salt water]  is approximately twice 
the conductivity which is the only thing that any meter actually measures.
Using instruments that can ACTUALLY measure PPM of silver in water, the 
conductivity to PPM equivalency is approx 1 to 1 with some variation due to 
the most part to silver in the water in forms that aren't conductive in 
varying degrees...much of that contamination reaction related


AFTER that measurement stops dropping [Ions "stabilize"  over time]...and 
it can drop by as much as 40 to 50%...then... 1 uS = ~ 1 PPM silver


 What that probably means is that the meter isn't detecting conductivity 
from the silver ions, but from the OH [-] anions [ aka "Alkaline water" ] 
that are produced in a 1 to 1 ratio along-with the silver ions..and the 
silver ions "go into hiding" as they Hydrate with water molecules in order 
to also hide from the anions that eventually would turn all of them into 
Silver Hydroxide [which doesn't seem to happen even after several years of 
storage] rather than just some of them.
 Therefore, with nearly half of  what conducts in hiding, both ions and 
anions being contributors, the conductivity drops almost 50% and at THAT 
point in time 1 uS  >/< equals the number spit out by an AA 
Spectrophotometer that can actually measure actual PPM directly.


Using a PPM/TDS meter  approx silver content would be that reading doubled.
.02 PPM [ 2 actually..the decimal is but a numeral place holder and not an 
actual tenth] would  be 4 uS or 4 PPM Silver as a "Ball Park Estimate"

.14 [ 14]  would be ~ 28 PPM silver.

  Solubility limits of water give measurement limits to around 30 uS 
conductivity and anything run to over that is just about meaningless on a 
meter.

 That which isn't in solution, doesn't conduct..but it's still there.

 The Utopia "Silver Bullet" [Probably should be called a silver rocket ]


Part List
1. 120 Volt AC to 48 Volt DC Generator  [voltage is nearly irrelevant 
except where it relates to current and conductivity, current determines a 
LOT and to keep that constant as conductivity goes up with added ions, the 
voltage should be made to go lower]

2. 120 Volt AC Timer  [cannot be used to predict a darned thing]

[You will need a meter to have any clue at all.]

Instructions:

   * Use a green pin to set the second start time at ½ hour later to allow 
a cool down period. This will extend the life of your generator. (During 
this cool down time, wipe the silver oxide from the electrodes and switch 
the red and the black electrode clips. This will ensure that the two 
electrodes both wear down somewhat uniformly.)


   * [ If it needs a "cool down time" there is a serious lack of design in 
the engineering. Well engineered devices don't heat up...ever. ]


Note: Ionic content will register on the TDS1 meter, but particle content 
will not. Particle content will be evidenced by its color since particles 
reflect light and ions do not.


["Color" part not true, but particles do reflect light and ions 
don't.  Although particle size can have an effect on color and 
numbers/density on depth of color, it's more an indication of the chemical 
composition of the majority of particles. If the color is yellow to brown 
to black, it mostly means that you have silver oxides in the water and the 
best way I've found to do that is to use too much current over too small 
electrodes..you can actually see the oxides being formed in the water 
rather than nearly all of it being stuck on the electrode that gets black 
as a "golden mist"]




Ode




At 11:11 AM 3/9/2010 -0800, you wrote:

Hi, Tel

I am kind of new for making homemade CS.  brought silver bullet from 
utopia,  It included TDS meter.  I have tested my homemade distill water 
at 0.02 and CS at 0.12. I pulled CS to amber jar.  over time the ppm 
increased a little to 0.14.  For curiosity, I tested tap water(live in 
S.F.), it was 0. 96.  Brita was 0.51. Could you tell me what does it 
mean?  Contaminations in the water?  Quite a few of my friends just drink 
directly from tap water. So 0.96 is not bad to drink or cook with, right?


   Overtime, my TDS does not measure accurately.  I think it needs to 
replace batteries.  My question is what different hanna tester from TDS 
meter.  Does it also need to change battries often?  I need to buy one if 
hanna is the one we need to measure CS. Thanks.   Helen


--- On Tue, 3/9/10, Tel Tofflemire  wrote:


From: Tel Tofflemire 
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 5:52 AM

It happens to all of us over the years, I have switched from one to 
another always trying to get the purest steam distilled water. I did use 
walgreens drug store,  for a long time and they changed there supplier , 
Bam ! There So called Distilled water was really bad, like o

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Ode Coyote]

  I've seen this one time with a person that had invested a lot of money 
in a water processing setup with a sealed bag packager.
He said his CS was growing mold in it and I didn't believe him, so he sent 
me a sample of both his water and some CS that he made.


I opened a bag and checked the water with a PWT and it was OK, except it 
had small grey fluffy things floating around in it as did the bag of CS.
 Many hours later, I checked it again and all the floaters had vanished, 
but the conductivity had skyrocketed into the hundreds of uS.


"Something" was in that water that was non conductive when under pressure, 
but with that pressure relieved, became very conductive and disappeared..


 The guy had spent several thousand bucks on that system..and of course it 
was the much less expensive "generator" that was the problem...and he never 
looked at the water before he made the CS because his very expensive water 
packaging equipment was beyond scrutiny...and why bag water? [THEN make CS 
with it? ]
Whatever it was probably came from the bags over a period of time while 
under pressure, or the generator wouldn't have made CS to start with...so, 
of course he didn't know that the *water* was also growing "mold" the same 
as the CS. [It wasn't mold, I have no idea what it was ]


The difference in pressure between open and unopened bag pretty much had to 
be very low, perhaps only as much as that between a rainy and sunny day or 
a different altitude.
 The bags had no head space at all, so maybe the plastic itself was under 
tension, applying pressure.



Ode


At 08:30 AM 3/9/2010 -0500, you wrote:

One experience of mine shows why you need a meter.

I have always used a meter to measure the strength of my CS right after 
making it.
It normally reads between 9 and 12, which is an approximation of the PPM 
of the solution.
Although the actual ppm may be a bit different, I assume it is not hugely 
different.  The important thing is the consistency of the meter from one 
batch to the next.  I know that each of my batches is similar to all the 
others that I have made.
One day I made a quart mason jar of CS from a new gallon of distilled 
water, and did my routine measurement after it was made.
I was not expecting anything different as the CS was clear and did not 
show any cloudiness or anything.

I woke up in a hurry when the meter jumped to 200 plus.
Whoa, what is this?  I measure it again.  Still in excess of 200.
I then poured water from the new gallon jug and measured that.  Also in 
excess of 200.

The water was bad.
Why did my SG6 not refuse to make CS from this as it is supposed to?
I don't know.  It looked like it went through its normal process, although 
I was not really paying attention at the time.
Anyway, the meter showed that this jug of the distilled water I always buy 
(Poland Springs) was bad.

That had never happened before and has not happened again since.
And that is why you need a meter and should always measure each batch that 
you make.


Del
- Original Message -
From: <mailto:one.red...@hotmail.com>Neville Munn
To: <mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com>silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter

[Any comments on this is appreciated]
-Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...

[...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that 
is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos 
to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes 
are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'.


I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in 
the ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory 
analysis that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, 
but the meters fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I 
have and that's all I need to know .


My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?

Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the 
ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once 
you get *in* {using all that information about meters, calculations etc 
etc available in the public domain}.


N.





--



Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
From: gajo...@yahoo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Silver Meter




Hello,

I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me 
you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for 
half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the 
Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me 
and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna 
PWT.  I would like

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I distill my own and get perfect results every time i.e 000 on my TDS meter.  I 
have the OdeV distiller which was cheap and is even cheaper in the US.  dee

On 9 Mar 2010, at 22:39, Renee wrote:

> Hey Tel.  Which brand of the water do you buy now at Walmart.  I had a meter 
> and you are right about the Walgreens.  It use to be really good, then got 
> really bad.  But my meter broke so now I can't tell what is going on with the 
> water I buy.  I can't really find any that say steam distilled anymore 
> either.  They all say distilled, or worse, purified.
>  
> But I will check to see if our walmart carries the brand you buy when you let 
> me know.
>  
> Samala,
> Renee
>  


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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Renee]

Thanks Tel.  I'll go tomorrow and see if our store carries it.  Great Value
is their own brand, I think?  It use to be Walgreens own brand was the best
one, but then they switched companies--the clerk told me, and that's when
the water went downhill.

Samala,
Renee

---Original Message---
 
The Walmart Distilled water is called (Great Value )  on the shelf where 
drinking water is..it comes from California, 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tel Tofflemire]

1-877-505-2267  Waltmart Phone # (I think in arkansas )  I tried the web site 
it did not work?
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.





From: Tel Tofflemire 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 4:00:06 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter


Hi Renee, 
The Walmart Distilled water is called (Great Value )  on the shelf where 
drinking water is..it comes from California, But there web site on the bottle 
is: www.walmartstoreswaterreport.com
They do say distilled in fine print on the bottle, I just tested this un-opened 
gallon jug, and it is 0.03  Very good .
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.





From: Renee 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 3:39:13 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

  
Hey Tel.  Which brand of the water do you buy now at Walmart.  I had a meter 
and you are right about the Walgreens.  It use to be really good, then got 
really bad.  But my meter broke so now I can't tell what is going on with the 
water I buy.  I can't really find any that say steam distilled anymore either.  
They all say distilled, or worse, purified.
 
But I will check to see if our walmart carries the brand you buy when you let 
me know.
 
Samala,
Renee
 
---Original Message---
 
 I am sure all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has steam 
distilled water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I feel bad 
for people who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that 10 ppm would 
shorten the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast.


  

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tel Tofflemire]

Hi Renee, 
The Walmart Distilled water is called (Great Value )  on the shelf where 
drinking water is..it comes from California, But there web site on the bottle 
is: www.walmartstoreswaterreport.com
They do say distilled in fine print on the bottle, I just tested this un-opened 
gallon jug, and it is 0.03  Very good .
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.





From: Renee 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 3:39:13 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

  
Hey Tel.  Which brand of the water do you buy now at Walmart.  I had a meter 
and you are right about the Walgreens.  It use to be really good, then got 
really bad.  But my meter broke so now I can't tell what is going on with the 
water I buy.  I can't really find any that say steam distilled anymore either.  
They all say distilled, or worse, purified.
 
But I will check to see if our walmart carries the brand you buy when you let 
me know.
 
Samala,
Renee
 
---Original Message---
 
 I am sure all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has steam 
distilled water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I feel bad 
for people who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that 10 ppm would 
shorten the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast.


  

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Renee]

Hey Tel.  Which brand of the water do you buy now at Walmart.  I had a meter
and you are right about the Walgreens.  It use to be really good, then got
really bad.  But my meter broke so now I can't tell what is going on with
the water I buy.  I can't really find any that say steam distilled anymore
either.  They all say distilled, or worse, purified.

But I will check to see if our walmart carries the brand you buy when you
let me know.

Samala,
Renee

---Original Message---
 
 I am sure all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has
steam distilled water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I
feel bad for people who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that
10 ppm would shorten the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast.
 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[poast]

Hello Gary,

Until someone comes up with the relationship between conductivity and PPM of 
silver, it is all a ballpark best guess.

However, the meter has a lot of other uses beside trying to guess at the 
concentration of EIS.

If you purchase distilled water, how do you know it is of high quality?

If you distill your own water, how do you know its quality?

When you rinse out your jar and are ready to brew a batch, how do you know 
there is no contamination in the jar?

If you bottle your EIS, how do you know the bottles you use don't add extra 
things to your EIS?

How stable are the ions in your EIS over time?

All of these questions can be addressed with a meter.  The most important one 
is the purity of the water followed by the purity of the jar you are making 
your EIS in.

Tom
  - Original Message - 
  From: GARY ABEL 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter


  Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled me on 
making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good for me.




--
  From: Neville Munn 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
  Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter

  [Any comments on this is appreciated]
  -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
   
  [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
  -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is 
specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my 
knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a 
measuring instrument'.
   
  I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the 
ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis 
that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters 
fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I 
need to know .
   
  My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?
   
  Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the 
ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you 
get *in* {using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc 
available in the public domain}.

  N.
   




--



  Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
  From: gajo...@yahoo.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: CS>Silver Meter





  Hello,

  I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.

  -ThanksGary
   
  Native American style flutes &
  Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
  www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 


--
  Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows. 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[GARY ABEL]

What's that supposed to mean?  An answer that short and terse leaves no room 
for reading your intent.  It appears to have sarcasm but I may be wrong, so I 
would need you to say exactly so I'm not assuming wrong.   I'm on this list to 
get a diversity of opinions and learn what I can.

Thanks,  Gary  


 




From: Tony Moody 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:14:27 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

Hi Gary,

Yes, Jim should answer all your questions.

OK,
Tony

On 9 Mar 2010 at 5:23, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> Hi Tony,
>
> I make mine per Jim Meissner's instructions.  I use one 9V battery with a
> 10K ohm reisistor.   I use two .999 silver boullion coins (alligator
> clips) and distilled water only.  Coins only in the water.  I clean thinks
> up with white distilled vinegar.  I make about 22 oz at a time.  In 12
> hours the hanna primo meter usually reads about 7ppm.
>
> Thanks,  Gary
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Tony Moody 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:53:09 AM
> Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I'm interested in how you make your EIS? Just for interests sake and so
> that your questions can be answered here.
>
> Are you using one of the regular machines on the market or a 'home made
> one" ?
>
> Does the device have constant current control? and
>
> Are you using distilled water?
>
> OK,
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2010 at 16:42, GARY ABEL wrote about :
> Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter
>
> > Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled
> > me on making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good
> > for me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Neville Munn 
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
> >
> > [Any comments on this is appreciated]
> > -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
> >  
> > [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
> > -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that
> > is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!}
> > cos to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes
> > are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'.   I got three meters and
> > none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the ballpark, which is
> > only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis that I got
> > more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters fool
> > me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all
> > I need to know .   My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna
> > be, or *need* to be?   Without laboratory analysis meters are only going
> > to get you *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think
> > is the *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about
> > meters, calculations etc etc available in the public domain}.
> >
> > N.
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
> > From: gajo...@yahoo.com
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: CS>Silver Meter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told
> > me you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo
> > for half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked
> > the Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it
> > to me and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the
> > Hanna PWT.  I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm
> > making.   Any comments on this is appreciated.
> >
> > -Thanks    Gary
> >  Native American style flutes &
> > Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
> > www.etsy.com/shop/gajon
> > 
> > Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows.
>
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.  
> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
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>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Sandee George]

Hi There Helen - when you say S.F. are you referring to Santa Fe - if  
so the water in New Mexico is very heavy in minerals which is not good  
for making EIS - so get some distilled water from the supermarket
make sure you purchase only one bottle at a time, so you can test each  
as you take them home and see which works out to have the lowest  
reading on your meter - I cannot remember which Brand I found the best  
when I lived there, and even so they have probably all changed since I  
left.
Just keep on trying until you find the Brand water with the lowest  
reading - there is no filter that I know of which can take all the  
properties whether they be man made or God made out of water to make  
the best EIS.

Take good care and all the best
Sandee


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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[dingyung49]

Hi, Tel
 
I am kind of new for making homemade CS.  brought silver bullet from utopia,  
It included TDS meter.  I have tested my homemade distill water at 0.02 and CS 
at 0.12. I pulled CS to amber jar.  over time the ppm increased a little to 
0.14.  For curiosity, I tested tap water(live in S.F.), it was 0. 96.  Brita 
was 0.51. Could you tell me what does it mean?  Contaminations in the water?  
Quite a few of my friends just drink directly from tap water. So 0.96 is not 
bad to drink or cook with, right?  
 
   Overtime, my TDS does not measure accurately.  I think it needs to replace 
batteries.  My question is what different hanna tester from TDS meter.  Does it 
also need to change battries often?  I need to buy one if hanna is the one we 
need to measure CS. Thanks.   Helen

--- On Tue, 3/9/10, Tel Tofflemire  wrote:


From: Tel Tofflemire 
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 5:52 AM







It happens to all of us over the years, I have switched from one to another 
always trying to get the purest steam distilled water. I did use walgreens drug 
store,  for a long time and they changed there supplier , Bam ! There So called 
Distilled water was really bad, like over 10 ppm dissolved solids, or 
contamination. I took it all back with my
hanna testers and demanded my money back, and opened an unopened jug in front 
of them and tested it with my smallest tester , wow it was real bad, they gave 
me all my money back from 2 sales receipts, I buy about 8 or 10 gallons at a 
time, I try to limit trips. {Thus a good meter can pay for itself }  I am sure 
all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has steam distilled 
water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I feel bad for people 
who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that 10 ppm would shorten 
the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast.
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.






From: Del 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 6:30:01 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter


#yiv532394032 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;}
#yiv532394032 .hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}


One experience of mine shows why you need a meter.
 
I have always used a meter to measure the strength of my CS right after making 
it.
It normally reads between 9 and 12, which is an approximation of the PPM of the 
solution.
Although the actual ppm may be a bit different, I assume it is not hugely 
different.  The important thing is the consistency of the meter from one batch 
to the next.  I know that each of my batches is similar to all the others that 
I have made.
One day I made a quart mason jar of CS from a new gallon of distilled water, 
and did my routine measurement after it was made.
I was not expecting anything different as the CS was clear and did not show any 
cloudiness or anything.
I woke up in a hurry when the meter jumped to 200 plus.
Whoa, what is this?  I measure it again.  Still in excess of 200.
I then poured water from the new gallon jug and measured that.  Also in excess 
of 200.
The water was bad.
Why did my SG6 not refuse to make CS from this as it is supposed to?
I don't know.  It looked like it went through its normal process, although I 
was not really paying attention at the time.
Anyway, the meter showed that this jug of the distilled water I always buy 
(Poland Springs) was bad.
That had never happened before and has not happened again since.
And that is why you need a meter and should always measure each batch that you 
make.
 
Del

- Original Message - 
From: Neville Munn 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter

[Any comments on this is appreciated]
-Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
 
[...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is 
specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my 
knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a 
measuring instrument'.
 
I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the 
ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis 
that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters 
fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I 
need to know .
 
My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?
 
Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the ballpark, 
*you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you get *in* 
{using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc available in the 
public domain}.

N.
 








Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tony Moody]

Hi Gary,

Yes, Jim should answer all your questions.

OK,
Tony

On 9 Mar 2010 at 5:23, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> Hi Tony,
>
> I make mine per Jim Meissner's instructions.  I use one 9V battery with a
> 10K ohm reisistor.   I use two .999 silver boullion coins (alligator
> clips) and distilled water only.  Coins only in the water.  I clean thinks
> up with white distilled vinegar.  I make about 22 oz at a time.  In 12
> hours the hanna primo meter usually reads about 7ppm.
>
> Thanks,  Gary
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Tony Moody 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:53:09 AM
> Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I'm interested in how you make your EIS? Just for interests sake and so
> that your questions can be answered here.
>
> Are you using one of the regular machines on the market or a 'home made
> one" ?
>
> Does the device have constant current control? and
>
> Are you using distilled water?
>
> OK,
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2010 at 16:42, GARY ABEL wrote about :
> Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter
>
> > Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled
> > me on making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good
> > for me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Neville Munn 
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
> >
> > [Any comments on this is appreciated]
> > -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
> >  
> > [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
> > -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that
> > is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!}
> > cos to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes
> > are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'.   I got three meters and
> > none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the ballpark, which is
> > only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis that I got
> > more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters fool
> > me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all
> > I need to know .   My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna
> > be, or *need* to be?   Without laboratory analysis meters are only going
> > to get you *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think
> > is the *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about
> > meters, calculations etc etc available in the public domain}.
> >
> > N.
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
> > From: gajo...@yahoo.com
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: CS>Silver Meter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told
> > me you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo
> > for half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked
> > the Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it
> > to me and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the
> > Hanna PWT.  I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm
> > making.   Any comments on this is appreciated.
> >
> > -Thanks    Gary
> >  Native American style flutes &
> > Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
> > www.etsy.com/shop/gajon
> > 
> > Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows.
>
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.  
> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> Archives:
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>
> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>

Re: Re: CS>Silver Meter

[btc5]

 
 
 
  Tel, what kind of Hannah meter did you use to measure the distilled water and the PPM of the CS you make?
 
  Also, Del what model do you use with your CS?
 
 Thank you,
 
 Brian 
 
Mar 9, 2010 07:53:37 AM, silver-list@eskimo.com wrote:



It happens to all of us over the years, I have switched from one to another always trying to get the purest steam distilled water. I did use walgreens drug store,  for a long time and they changed there supplier , Bam ! There So called Distilled water was really bad, like over 10 ppm dissolved solids, or contamination. I took it all back with my
hanna testers and demanded my money back, and opened an unopened jug in front of them and tested it with my smallest tester , wow it was real bad, they gave me all my money back from 2 sales receipts, I buy about 8 or 10 gallons at a time, I try to limit trips. {Thus a good meter can pay for itself }  I am sure all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has steam distilled water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I feel bad for people who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that 10 ppm would shorten the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast. Tel TofflemireDewey, AZ.




From: Del To: silver-list@eskimo.comSent: Tue, March 9, 2010 6:30:01 AMSubject: Re: CS>Silver Meter
One experience of mine shows why you need a meter.
 
I have always used a meter to measure the strength of my CS right after making it.
It normally reads between 9 and 12, which is an approximation of the PPM of the solution.
Although the actual ppm may be a bit different, I assume it is not hugely different.  The important thing is the consistency of the meter from one batch to the next.  I know that each of my batches is similar to all the others that I have made.
One day I made a quart mason jar of CS from a new gallon of distilled water, and did my routine measurement after it was made.
I was not expecting anything different as the CS was clear and did not show any cloudiness or anything.
I woke up in a hurry when the meter jumped to 200 plus.
Whoa, what is this?  I measure it again.  Still in excess of 200.
I then poured water from the new gallon jug and measured that.  Also in excess of 200.
The water was bad.
Why did my SG6 not refuse to make CS from this as it is supposed to?
I don't know.  It looked like it went through its normal process, although I was not really paying attention at the time.
Anyway, the meter showed that this jug of the distilled water I always buy (Poland Springs) was bad.
That had never happened before and has not happened again since.
And that is why you need a meter and should always measure each batch that you make.
 
Del

- Original Message - 
From: Neville Munn 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
[Any comments on this is appreciated]-Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject... [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'. I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I need to know . My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be? Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc available in the public domain}.N. 

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800From: gajo...@yahoo.comTo: silver-list@eskimo.comSubject: CS>Silver Meter


Hello,
 
I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is appreciated.
 
-Thanks    Gary Native American style flutes &Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 


Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows. 



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  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
  
Archives:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html

Off-Topic discussions: 
List Owner: Mike Devour 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tel Tofflemire]

It happens to all of us over the years, I have switched from one to another 
always trying to get the purest steam distilled water. I did use walgreens drug 
store,  for a long time and they changed there supplier , Bam ! There So called 
Distilled water was really bad, like over 10 ppm dissolved solids, or 
contamination. I took it all back with my
hanna testers and demanded my money back, and opened an unopened jug in front 
of them and tested it with my smallest tester , wow it was real bad, they gave 
me all my money back from 2 sales receipts, I buy about 8 or 10 gallons at a 
time, I try to limit trips. {Thus a good meter can pay for itself }  I am sure 
all stores are different but here in Prescott, AZ Walmart has steam distilled 
water that measures only 0.00 to 0.04  now that is pure.  I feel bad for people 
who use DW for car & golf cart , & boat batteries, that 10 ppm would shorten 
the life of the batterie, or plug up an iron fast.
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.





From: Del 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 6:30:01 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

 
One experience of mine shows why you need a 
meter.
 
I have always used a meter to measure the strength of my 
CS right after making it.
It normally reads between 9 and 12, which is an 
approximation of the PPM of the solution.
Although the actual ppm may be a bit different, I assume 
it is not hugely different.  The important thing is the consistency of the 
meter from one batch to the next.  I know that each of my batches is 
similar to all the others that I have made.
One day I made a quart mason jar of CS from a new gallon 
of distilled water, and did my routine measurement after it was 
made.
I was not expecting anything different as the CS was clear 
and did not show any cloudiness or anything.
I woke up in a hurry when the meter jumped to 200 
plus.
Whoa, what is this?  I measure it again.  Still 
in excess of 200.
I then poured water from the new gallon jug and measured 
that.  Also in excess of 200.
The water was bad.
Why did my SG6 not refuse to make CS from this as it 
is supposed to?
I don't know.  It looked like it went through its 
normal process, although I was not really paying attention at the 
time.
Anyway, the meter showed that this jug of the distilled 
water I always buy (Poland Springs) was bad.
That had never happened before and has not happened again 
since.
And that is why you need a meter and should always measure 
each batch that you make.
 
Del
- Original Message - 
>From: Neville 
>  Munn 
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 
>PM
>Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
>
>[Any comments on this is appreciated]
>-Sure, here's my 
>  thoughts on the subject...
> 
>[...basiclly has the same component 
>  inside as the Hanna PWT.]
>-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't 
>  a meter 'off the shelf' that is specifically designed to 
>  measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my knowledge...there 
>  isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a measuring 
>  instrument'.
> 
>I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', 
>  but they get me in the ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I 
>  know from laboratory analysis that I got more *total* silver content than 
> all 
>  my meters show, but the meters fool me into determining *roughly* what 
> silver 
>  content I have and that's all I need to know .
> 
>My 
>  question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to 
>  be?
> 
>Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you 
>  *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the 
>  *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about meters, 
>  calculations etc etc available in the public 
>  domain}.
>
>N.
> 
>
>
>
>
 
>
>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
>From: 
>  gajo...@yahoo.com
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>Subject: CS>Silver 
>  Meter
>
>
>
>
> > 
>Hello,
> 
>I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  
>  Someone told me you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a 
>  Hanna Primo for half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he 
>  checked the Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company 
>  that sold it to me and they said it basiclly has the same component inside 
> as 
>  the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be able to be fairly certain what 
>  ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is appreciated.
> 
>-ThanksGary
> Native American style 
>  flutes &
>Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
>www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 
>
 >  Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows. 


  

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Ode Coyote]

  The HM Digital EC3 does what a PWT  and an HM Digital COM-100 does, only 
without the decimal place.
 Checking for PPM with a meter is an erroneous process to start with, so 
I'm not sure why the accuracy of a decimal place while using a yard stick 
to weigh something is all that important.


Sorta like trying to get a kitten into focus...hey...it's fuzzy, ok?  But 
you know were it is and about how big it looks  [till it gets wet]


EC3  $30  [free shipping]
COM-100  $55 [free shipping]
PWT ~ $57 [plus shipping]

Might find a better deal on ebay.

Ode

At 04:40 AM 3/8/2010 -0800, you wrote:

Hello,

I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me 
you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for 
half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the 
Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me 
and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna 
PWT.  I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm 
making.   Any comments on this is appreciated.


-ThanksGary

Native American style flutes &
Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
www.etsy.com/shop/gajon



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 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
 
Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html


Off-Topic discussions: 
List Owner: Mike Devour 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Del]

One experience of mine shows why you need a meter.

I have always used a meter to measure the strength of my CS right after making 
it.
It normally reads between 9 and 12, which is an approximation of the PPM of the 
solution.
Although the actual ppm may be a bit different, I assume it is not hugely 
different.  The important thing is the consistency of the meter from one batch 
to the next.  I know that each of my batches is similar to all the others that 
I have made.
One day I made a quart mason jar of CS from a new gallon of distilled water, 
and did my routine measurement after it was made.
I was not expecting anything different as the CS was clear and did not show any 
cloudiness or anything.
I woke up in a hurry when the meter jumped to 200 plus.
Whoa, what is this?  I measure it again.  Still in excess of 200.
I then poured water from the new gallon jug and measured that.  Also in excess 
of 200.
The water was bad.
Why did my SG6 not refuse to make CS from this as it is supposed to?
I don't know.  It looked like it went through its normal process, although I 
was not really paying attention at the time.
Anyway, the meter showed that this jug of the distilled water I always buy 
(Poland Springs) was bad.
That had never happened before and has not happened again since.
And that is why you need a meter and should always measure each batch that you 
make.

Del
  - Original Message - 
  From: Neville Munn 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM
  Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter


  [Any comments on this is appreciated]
  -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
   
  [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
  -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is 
specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my 
knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a 
measuring instrument'.
   
  I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the 
ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis 
that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters 
fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I 
need to know .
   
  My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?
   
  Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the 
ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you 
get *in* {using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc 
available in the public domain}.

  N.
   




--



  Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
  From: gajo...@yahoo.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: CS>Silver Meter





  Hello,

  I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.

  -ThanksGary
   
  Native American style flutes &
  Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
  www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 


--
  Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows. 

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[GARY ABEL]

Hi Tony,

I make mine per Jim Meissner's instructions.  I use one 9V battery with a 10K 
ohm reisistor.   I use two .999 silver boullion coins (alligator clips) and 
distilled water only.  Coins only in the water.  I clean thinks up with white 
distilled vinegar.  I make about 22 oz at a time.  In 12 hours the hanna primo 
meter usually reads about 7ppm.

Thanks,  Gary





From: Tony Moody 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:53:09 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Meter

Hi Gary,

I'm interested in how you make your EIS? Just for interests sake and so
that your questions can be answered here.

Are you using one of the regular machines on the market or a 'home made
one" ?

Does the device have constant current control? and

Are you using distilled water?

OK,
Tony



On 8 Mar 2010 at 16:42, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled me
> on making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good for
> me.
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Neville Munn 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
> Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
>
> [Any comments on this is appreciated]
> -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
>  
> [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
> -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that
> is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos
> to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes
> are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'.   I got three meters and
> none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the ballpark, which is
> only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis that I got more
> *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters fool me
> into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I
> need to know .   My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be,
> or *need* to be?   Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to
> get you *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the
> *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about meters,
> calculations etc etc available in the public domain}.
>
> N.
>  
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
> From: gajo...@yahoo.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Silver Meter
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me
> you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for
> half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the
> Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me
> and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT. 
> I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any
> comments on this is appreciated.
>
> -Thanks    Gary
>  Native American style flutes &
> Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
> www.etsy.com/shop/gajon
> 
> Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows.



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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tony Moody]

Hi Gary,

I'm interested in how you make your EIS? Just for interests sake and so
that your questions can be answered here.

Are you using one of the regular machines on the market or a 'home made
one" ?

Does the device have constant current control? and

Are you using distilled water?

OK,
Tony



On 8 Mar 2010 at 16:42, GARY ABEL wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Silver Meter

> Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled me
> on making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good for
> me.
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Neville Munn 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
> Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter
>
> [Any comments on this is appreciated]
> -Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
>  
> [...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
> -That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that
> is specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos
> to my knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes
> are...'guesswork using a measuring instrument'.   I got three meters and
> none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the ballpark, which is
> only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis that I got more
> *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters fool me
> into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I
> need to know .   My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be,
> or *need* to be?   Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to
> get you *in* the ballpark, *you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the
> *best* seat once you get *in* {using all that information about meters,
> calculations etc etc available in the public domain}.
>
> N.
>  
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
> From: gajo...@yahoo.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Silver Meter
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me
> you needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for
> half that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the
> Primo and it wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me
> and they said it basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT. 
> I would like to be able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any
> comments on this is appreciated.
>
> -Thanks    Gary
>  Native American style flutes &
> Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
> www.etsy.com/shop/gajon
> 
> Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows.



--
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Re: CS>Silver Meter

[GARY ABEL]

Thank you.  I will use the information I got from the man who schooled me on 
making EIS and just go with the amount of time.  Ballpark is good for me.





From: Neville Munn 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 7:38:27 PM
Subject: RE: CS>Silver Meter

[Any comments on this is appreciated]
-Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
 
[...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is 
specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my 
knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a 
measuring instrument'.
 
I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the 
ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis 
that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters 
fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I 
need to know .
 
My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?
 
Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the ballpark, 
*you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you get *in* 
{using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc available in the 
public domain}.

N.
 







Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
From: gajo...@yahoo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Silver Meter





Hello,

I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.

-Thanks    Gary
 Native American style flutes &
Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 

Download a free gift for your PC. Get personal with Windows. 

RE: CS>Silver Meter

[Neville Munn]

[Any comments on this is appreciated]

-Sure, here's my thoughts on the subject...
 
[...basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.]
-That'd be their way of saying "there isn't a meter 'off the shelf' that is 
specifically designed to measure EIS" {without actually saying it!} cos to my 
knowledge...there isn't.  Meters used for EIS purposes are...'guesswork using a 
measuring instrument'.
 
I got three meters and none of them are 'accurate?', but they get me in the 
ballpark, which is only where I need to be.  I know from laboratory analysis 
that I got more *total* silver content than all my meters show, but the meters 
fool me into determining *roughly* what silver content I have and that's all I 
need to know .
 
My question would be...How 'accurate' do you wanna be, or *need* to be?

 

Without laboratory analysis meters are only going to get you *in* the ballpark, 
*you'll* have to pick the seat you think is the *best* seat once you get *in* 
{using all that information about meters, calculations etc etc available in the 
public domain}.


N.
 










Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 04:40:56 -0800
From: gajo...@yahoo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Silver Meter









Hello,
 
I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.
 
-ThanksGary
 Native American style flutes &
Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 
  
_
Get personal with Windows. Download a free gift for your PC.
http://experience.windows.com

Re: CS>Silver Meter

[Tel Tofflemire]

I have both hanna meters,$35.00 + S & H  the small one is 2 ppm higher reading 
than the large expensive one $140.00, + S & H but as long as you test it and 
allow for that small error who cares?
My Model 77 Colloid Master will test the silver ppm and the water I use in it.  
But I use the hanna testers for my own satisfaction, and show.
 Tel Tofflemire
Dewey, AZ.





From: GARY ABEL 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 5:40:56 AM
Subject: CS>Silver Meter


Hello,
 
I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.
 
-ThanksGary
 Native American style flutes &
Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 


  

CS>Silver Meter

[GARY ABEL]

Hello,

I'm looking for any thoughts on meters to check the ppm.  Someone told me you 
needed the Hanna PWT that costs about $60.  I found a Hanna Primo for half 
that.  The fellow that told me about the PWT says he checked the Primo and it 
wasn't accurate.   I contacted the company that sold it to me and they said it 
basiclly has the same component inside as the Hanna PWT.  I would like to be 
able to be fairly certain what ppm I'm making.   Any comments on this is 
appreciated.

-Thanks    Gary
 Native American style flutes &
Matted photos by ~ Gajon ~
www.etsy.com/shop/gajon 

Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Marshall Dudley]

Alvin Rose wrote:

> Marshall
> do you have any information on the submerged electrode spacing
> for the hvac colloidal silver..I have an high voltage transformer 10kv
> with the primary winding connected to a variac...would the full 10 kv
> be applied to the electrodes submerged in dw..I can apply any voltage
> from 0 to 10kv for experimental tests..also what is the time factor for
> 20 ppm generation of c/s in the dw.

We are running about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch spacing.  We use a 15 KV neon sign
transformer (actually 4 in parallel), which when properly loaded to 25-30 mA 
each
produces right at 10 Kv.  The water is introduced at 32 F, and the flow rate is
adjusted for the ppm we want.  The electrode exposure is adjusted for 10KV.  
Both
current and voltage are metered.

Marshall



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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Alvin Rose]

Marshall
do you have any information on the submerged electrode spacing
for the hvac colloidal silver..I have an high voltage transformer 10kv
with the primary winding connected to a variac...would the full 10 kv
be applied to the electrodes submerged in dw..I can apply any voltage
from 0 to 10kv for experimental tests..also what is the time factor for
20 ppm generation of c/s in the dw.
Alvin

Marshall Dudley wrote:

> Fred wrote:
>
> > At 06:36 PM 6/24/2000, Roger wrote:
> > >Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
> > >which all other CS products are compared.
> >
> > Prey tell, whose HVAC product is the standard - seems the jury
> > has been and still is out! The three samples I got all seem to vary
> > quite a bit! Are there not (4) HV "processes"? Open arc, shielded arc,
> > submerged and "semi submerged" (water attracted up to the
> > electrode)? Now then, many, including yourself say it is hard to
> > maintain the "operating condition" - I believe you said that just a few
> > days ago and you said  "but I think" 90% of the silver comes from the
> > short period when you are getting a stable arc! Just how old is your
> > oldest standard batch?
>
> In addition the submerged electrode system we use is also a flow through
> system instead of a batch process.
>
> Marshall
>
> --
> The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
>
> To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
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> Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
> List maintainer: Mike Devour 

Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Marshall Dudley]

Fred wrote:

> At 06:36 PM 6/24/2000, Roger wrote:
> >Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
> >which all other CS products are compared.
>
> Prey tell, whose HVAC product is the standard - seems the jury
> has been and still is out! The three samples I got all seem to vary
> quite a bit! Are there not (4) HV "processes"? Open arc, shielded arc,
> submerged and "semi submerged" (water attracted up to the
> electrode)? Now then, many, including yourself say it is hard to
> maintain the "operating condition" - I believe you said that just a few
> days ago and you said  "but I think" 90% of the silver comes from the
> short period when you are getting a stable arc! Just how old is your
> oldest standard batch?

In addition the submerged electrode system we use is also a flow through
system instead of a batch process.

Marshall


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Marshall Dudley]

w8w8 wrote:

> Seems like there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that work and
> there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that did not work.  It has
> been said that James Holmes and Robert L. Berger each have
> spectrophotometers, and that is one of only two methods of correctly
> measuring ppm (ug/ml).  (The other is with an I.S.E.(ion specific
> electrode) which Ivan has).  Why would James and Roberts
> spectrophotometers, work and the Hanna HI 93737 Silver Meter not work?
>
> Erwin (In quest of a meter to measaure my silver)

That is a good question.  I have both a $5,000 hack unit, and the Hanna
unit, and the Hanna does not work for me either.  If it did I certainly
would not have blown $5,000 for the Hack unit.  They use different
chemicals.

Marshall


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[ROGALTMAN]

In a message dated 6/25/00 3:32:04 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes:

<< Subj: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter
 Date:  6/25/00 3:32:04 PM EST
 From:  f...@health2us.com (Fred)
 Reply-to:  silver-list@eskimo.com
 To:silver-list@eskimo.com
 
 At 06:36 PM 6/24/2000, Roger wrote:
 >Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
 >which all other CS products are compared.
 
 Prey tell, whose HVAC product is the standard - seems the jury
 has been and still is out! The three samples I got all seem to vary
 quite a bit!

Fred: Vary in WHAT way. Do you see any signs of silver dropping out?

 Are there not (4) HV "processes"? Open arc, shielded arc, submerged and 
"semi submerged" (water attracted up to the electrode)? Now then, many, 
including yourself say it is hard to maintain the "operating condition" -

Fred: I think you did a very good job in underscoring my point. Based on my 
experience, ALL these variations on the HVAC process make a stable CS.

I believe you said that just a few days ago and you said  "but I think" 90% 
of the silver comes from the short period when you are getting a stable arc! 
Just how old is your oldest standard batch?

Fred: 18 months and clear as a bell. BTW, with regard to sputtering, I didn't 
say "...stable arc...". A stable arc is a necessary, but insufficient 
condition to induce sputtering.

Roger
 
 


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CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Fred]

At 06:36 PM 6/24/2000, Roger wrote:

Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
which all other CS products are compared.


Prey tell, whose HVAC product is the standard - seems the jury
has been and still is out! The three samples I got all seem to vary
quite a bit! Are there not (4) HV "processes"? Open arc, shielded arc,
submerged and "semi submerged" (water attracted up to the
electrode)? Now then, many, including yourself say it is hard to
maintain the "operating condition" - I believe you said that just a few
days ago and you said  "but I think" 90% of the silver comes from the
short period when you are getting a stable arc! Just how old is your
oldest standard batch?

f...@health2us.com


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James H-McMillan]

I never have more than a pint at a time. Make it as I need it, I don't bother 
with
what the ppm is (+-5-10ppm), just make it to my recipe because so far it has
worked for my needs. I have sold units to others as well on the same principal 
and
it has worked for them as well.
James Houston-McMillan

Trem wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> >In a message dated 6/24/00 3:52:06 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:
> >
> ><< Roger,
> >
> >  I understand your position  Mine is that most people aren't up for making
> >  large amounts, then taking a portion and sending it off for analysis.  I
> >  suspect most folks make a pint or so at a time and when they need more,
> >  they make it.  Most people probably don't have storage space for large
> >  quantities.
>
> >Trem: Six gallons?
>
> Yes Roger.  Six gallons is a heck of a lot.  Most people have kitchen
> cabinets,  perhaps a pantry, a hall closet and probably a closet in their
> bedroom.  And the fact remains that most people wouldn't use gallons of it
> at a time.  I think most take a prophylactic amount each day or else take
> it only when they feel under the weather.   I'll bet a poll taken would
> show that most folks have less than a quart stashed away.
>
> >  I suppose you make large quantities because you sell it.  Correct
>
> >Trem: Yes I do, but I don't think you have to sell CS to consider mixing
> >several batches together, getting a single sample, and sending it in for
> >silver analysis.
>
> Once again, I don't think most people are up for waiting on lab reports and
> diddling with samples when they can check it in a minute with a pocket
> meter such as the PWT.  And yes, we do sell term but that's not what this
> discussion is about.  It's about a way the average person can figure out
> what they've got in a reasonable period of time with little
> inconvenience.  And at little cost.  The PWT will pay for itself in only a
> couple of tests compared to continually paying for lab tests if they go
> your way.
>
> >  What the PWT does is relieve them of that task and allows them to test EACH
> >  and EVERY batch at their leisure.  The PWT is really the best choice for
> >  the average CS user/maker.  It's quick and works.  Like having a small,
> >  relatively accurate lab in their pocket or a drawer.
>
> >Trem: Sounds fine to me.
>
> >  And mixing unknown batches together doesn't tell a person what they
> >  made.  It's now homogenized; an average of all batches.  Not good in my
> >  mind for most people since they probably don't have too much uniformity of
> >  procedure.  You have to understand that all people aren't scientific.  And
> >  that's not a slam, just an observation.
>
> >Trem: On the contrary, I'm very glad you brought up this point because it's
> >the very point I've been trying to make myself recently. LVDC CS may be easy
> >for SOME to make, but for many it may be difficult to make consistent
> >batches. Realizing that the HVAC process is not for everybody, if it has one
> >thing going for it, it's consistency.
>
> It's not only consistent but also relatively dangerous because of the high
> voltage and also expensive to buy a generating unit Roger.  LVDC can be
> made quite consistently.  For instance, our generator has automatic shutoff
> and a stirring motor.  It makes very repeatable clear CS at up to
> 20PPM.  What it takes is consistency which can be done if one works at it
> or they can buy a machine to do it for them.  At least LVDC is safe and I
> think the product is completely satisfactory.
>
> >  And of course many people make CS that does not have much shelf life but
> >  they still want to know the PPM at the time.
>
> >Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
> >which all other CS products are compared.
>
> I can't argue that point.  All I can say is we have clear CS stored in
> plastic soft drink containers which has been around for a long time with no
> fallout or color change.  Guess we're lucky or else have a good machine.
>
> I think this will be the end of  the debate for me on whether sending CS
> off to a lab is better than testing it ones self.  We're both sort of
> opinionated so there doesn't seem to be any reason to continue.
>
> Have a good weekend.
>
> Trem
> www.silvergen.com
>
> >--
> >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
> >
> >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
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> >

Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[ROGALTMAN]

In a message dated 6/24/00 6:26:09 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:

<< We're both sort of 
 opinionated 

Trem: I really have to take exception to that last statement. Just what are 
you insinuating by the term, "sort of"?

Roger

 

 


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Trem]

Hi Roger,


In a message dated 6/24/00 3:52:06 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:

<< Roger,

 I understand your position  Mine is that most people aren't up for making
 large amounts, then taking a portion and sending it off for analysis.  I
 suspect most folks make a pint or so at a time and when they need more,
 they make it.  Most people probably don't have storage space for large
 quantities.



Trem: Six gallons?


Yes Roger.  Six gallons is a heck of a lot.  Most people have kitchen 
cabinets,  perhaps a pantry, a hall closet and probably a closet in their 
bedroom.  And the fact remains that most people wouldn't use gallons of it 
at a time.  I think most take a prophylactic amount each day or else take 
it only when they feel under the weather.   I'll bet a poll taken would 
show that most folks have less than a quart stashed away.



 I suppose you make large quantities because you sell it.  Correct




Trem: Yes I do, but I don't think you have to sell CS to consider mixing
several batches together, getting a single sample, and sending it in for
silver analysis.


Once again, I don't think most people are up for waiting on lab reports and 
diddling with samples when they can check it in a minute with a pocket 
meter such as the PWT.  And yes, we do sell term but that's not what this 
discussion is about.  It's about a way the average person can figure out 
what they've got in a reasonable period of time with little 
inconvenience.  And at little cost.  The PWT will pay for itself in only a 
couple of tests compared to continually paying for lab tests if they go 
your way.



 What the PWT does is relieve them of that task and allows them to test EACH
 and EVERY batch at their leisure.  The PWT is really the best choice for
 the average CS user/maker.  It's quick and works.  Like having a small,
 relatively accurate lab in their pocket or a drawer.




Trem: Sounds fine to me.




 And mixing unknown batches together doesn't tell a person what they
 made.  It's now homogenized; an average of all batches.  Not good in my
 mind for most people since they probably don't have too much uniformity of
 procedure.  You have to understand that all people aren't scientific.  And
 that's not a slam, just an observation.



Trem: On the contrary, I'm very glad you brought up this point because it's
the very point I've been trying to make myself recently. LVDC CS may be easy
for SOME to make, but for many it may be difficult to make consistent
batches. Realizing that the HVAC process is not for everybody, if it has one
thing going for it, it's consistency.


It's not only consistent but also relatively dangerous because of the high 
voltage and also expensive to buy a generating unit Roger.  LVDC can be 
made quite consistently.  For instance, our generator has automatic shutoff 
and a stirring motor.  It makes very repeatable clear CS at up to 
20PPM.  What it takes is consistency which can be done if one works at it 
or they can buy a machine to do it for them.  At least LVDC is safe and I 
think the product is completely satisfactory.



 And of course many people make CS that does not have much shelf life but
 they still want to know the PPM at the time.



Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by
which all other CS products are compared.


I can't argue that point.  All I can say is we have clear CS stored in 
plastic soft drink containers which has been around for a long time with no 
fallout or color change.  Guess we're lucky or else have a good machine.


I think this will be the end of  the debate for me on whether sending CS 
off to a lab is better than testing it ones self.  We're both sort of 
opinionated so there doesn't seem to be any reason to continue.


Have a good weekend.

Trem
www.silvergen.com




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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[ROGALTMAN]

In a message dated 6/24/00 3:52:06 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:

<< Roger,
 
 I understand your position  Mine is that most people aren't up for making 
 large amounts, then taking a portion and sending it off for analysis.  I 
 suspect most folks make a pint or so at a time and when they need more, 
 they make it.  Most people probably don't have storage space for large 
 quantities. 

Trem: Six gallons?

 I suppose you make large quantities because you sell it.  Correct?

Trem: Yes I do, but I don't think you have to sell CS to consider mixing 
several batches together, getting a single sample, and sending it in for 
silver analysis. 

 What the PWT does is relieve them of that task and allows them to test EACH 
 and EVERY batch at their leisure.  The PWT is really the best choice for 
 the average CS user/maker.  It's quick and works.  Like having a small, 
 relatively accurate lab in their pocket or a drawer.

Trem: Sounds fine to me.
 
 And mixing unknown batches together doesn't tell a person what they 
 made.  It's now homogenized; an average of all batches.  Not good in my 
 mind for most people since they probably don't have too much uniformity of 
 procedure.  You have to understand that all people aren't scientific.  And 
 that's not a slam, just an observation.

Trem: On the contrary, I'm very glad you brought up this point because it's 
the very point I've been trying to make myself recently. LVDC CS may be easy 
for SOME to make, but for many it may be difficult to make consistent 
batches. Realizing that the HVAC process is not for everybody, if it has one 
thing going for it, it's consistency.
 
 And of course many people make CS that does not have much shelf life but 
 they still want to know the PPM at the time.

Trem: Well, when it comes to shelf life, IMHO, HVAC CS is the standard by 
which all other CS products are compared.


 
 Trem
 www.silvergen.com
  >>


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Trem]

Roger,

I understand your position  Mine is that most people aren't up for making 
large amounts, then taking a portion and sending it off for analysis.  I 
suspect most folks make a pint or so at a time and when they need more, 
they make it.  Most people probably don't have storage space for large 
quantities.  I suppose you make large quantities because you sell it.  Correct?


What the PWT does is relieve them of that task and allows them to test EACH 
and EVERY batch at their leisure.  The PWT is really the best choice for 
the average CS user/maker.  It's quick and works.  Like having a small, 
relatively accurate lab in their pocket or a drawer.


And mixing unknown batches together doesn't tell a person what they 
made.  It's now homogenized; an average of all batches.  Not good in my 
mind for most people since they probably don't have too much uniformity of 
procedure.  You have to understand that all people aren't scientific.  And 
that's not a slam, just an observation.


And of course many people make CS that does not have much shelf life but 
they still want to know the PPM at the time.


Trem
www.silvergen.com



At 03:41 PM 6/24/00 -0400, you wrote:

In a message dated 6/24/00 2:05:51 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:

<< Hi Erwin,

 For practical purposes the Hanna PWT works just fine.  See our site for
 info on test results using one in relation to atomic absorption test
 results.  Of course you can spend a ton of money to find out exactly how
 strong your CS is but that seems a bit much for most folks.  For under $50
 you can make thousands of tests with this little toy.   And it's repeatable.

 Good luck.

 Trem
 www.silvergen.com
  >>

Trem: I'm not sure folks realize that they can save money in analyses by
making several batches of CS, mix them together, and then submit a single
sample for analysis. Recently, I make a 6 gallon batch that later analyzed
10.7 PPM CS. Since 1 PPM of my brew seems to work just fine, that's a lot of
CS for just 14 bucks or so for analysis plus shipping. Of course, it helps a
great deal if your CS has a long shelf life.

Roger


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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James Osbourne, Holmes]

Hi Trem,

I'm  not sure, but I have heard that ISEs measure dissolved silver only.  I 
look forward to obtaining one, after I get a conductivity meter that will 
reliably measure hundredths of a mS.

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   w8w8 [SMTP:w...@earthlink.net]
Sent:   Saturday, June 24, 2000 12:19 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject:Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

Seems like there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that work and
there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that did not work.  It has
been said that James Holmes and Robert L. Berger each have
spectrophotometers, and that is one of only two methods of correctly
measuring ppm (ug/ml).  (The other is with an I.S.E.(ion specific
electrode) which Ivan has).  Why would James and Roberts
spectrophotometers, work and the Hanna HI 93737 Silver Meter not work?

Erwin (In quest of a meter to measaure my silver)

Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>



Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> We tried one and it did not work with colloidal silver. Was told it
> was for use with dissolved silver such as in waste treatment plants
> etc. The sample measured the same as the blank or as much as 25% of
> the readings done on our CS by Kimball Labs as I recall. Would have
> been a good way to test if it had worked.  All readings were not
> repeatable and were way off the mark.
>
> We even tried digesting the silver in nitric acid to see if that would
> help.  It didn't.




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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James Osbourne, Holmes]

HI w8,

The Hach chemicals are set up for light of 560 nm.  The Hanna uses an LED 
at 550.  It is a dedicated single test colorimeter or spectrophotometer.

The Hanna chemicals do not work for CS, or have not been reported to do so. 
 With the color being the same, that makes me suspect that the color 
generated by the reagents is probably the same and therefore, the chemistry 
is the same.  Does anyone have some of the Hanna reagents who will report 
their composition and the times for each step?

The Hach chemicals do work for CS.

I have proposed that the Hach reagent set may work with the Hanna 
instrument.

To find out if this is true, It will cost someone with the Hanna instrument 
about 60 FRNs for the Hach reagent set; some time obtaining the Hach lab 
handbook and some more time  adapting the Hach procedure to the Hanna 
instrument.  Most of the time will be spent generating a graph plotting 
 known concentrations of silver---I use precision dilutions of ASC  grade 
silver nitrate---against the amount of light absorbed by the sample.

If someone will send me a meter for the trial, I will do it, and return the 
meter.  Alternatively, I will sell at cost + shipping enough Hach sets to 
anyone who will do the basic setup.  The tests cost about 0.60 FRNs each, 
and I suspect it will take about 10 or 15 of them to make the tests.

The main advantage I see for the Hach instrument is that it is probably 
impossible to get out of calibration.  A standard spec. has delicate 
optical and mechanical components which are easily bumped out of alignment. 
 The overall cost to set up an Ag lab will only be 250 less than buying a 
used spec. with the needed specifications because of the cost of the 
precision glassware required for the procedure.

There are several other methods of measuring Ag concentration; AA specs and 
visible light specs are just the most convenient, practical and low-cost 
ways to do it.

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   w8w8 [SMTP:w...@earthlink.net]
Sent:   Saturday, June 24, 2000 12:19 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject:Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

Seems like there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that work and
there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that did not work.  It has
been said that James Holmes and Robert L. Berger each have
spectrophotometers, and that is one of only two methods of correctly
measuring ppm (ug/ml).  (The other is with an I.S.E.(ion specific
electrode) which Ivan has).  Why would James and Roberts
spectrophotometers, work and the Hanna HI 93737 Silver Meter not work?

Erwin (In quest of a meter to measaure my silver)

Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>



Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> We tried one and it did not work with colloidal silver. Was told it
> was for use with dissolved silver such as in waste treatment plants
> etc. The sample measured the same as the blank or as much as 25% of
> the readings done on our CS by Kimball Labs as I recall. Would have
> been a good way to test if it had worked.  All readings were not
> repeatable and were way off the mark.
>
> We even tried digesting the silver in nitric acid to see if that would
> help.  It didn't.




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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[ROGALTMAN]

In a message dated 6/24/00 2:05:51 PM EST, t...@silvergen.com writes:

<< Hi Erwin,
 
 For practical purposes the Hanna PWT works just fine.  See our site for 
 info on test results using one in relation to atomic absorption test 
 results.  Of course you can spend a ton of money to find out exactly how 
 strong your CS is but that seems a bit much for most folks.  For under $50 
 you can make thousands of tests with this little toy.   And it's repeatable.
 
 Good luck.
 
 Trem
 www.silvergen.com
  >>

Trem: I'm not sure folks realize that they can save money in analyses by 
making several batches of CS, mix them together, and then submit a single 
sample for analysis. Recently, I make a 6 gallon batch that later analyzed 
10.7 PPM CS. Since 1 PPM of my brew seems to work just fine, that's a lot of 
CS for just 14 bucks or so for analysis plus shipping. Of course, it helps a 
great deal if your CS has a long shelf life.

Roger


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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Trem]

Hi Erwin,

For practical purposes the Hanna PWT works just fine.  See our site for 
info on test results using one in relation to atomic absorption test 
results.  Of course you can spend a ton of money to find out exactly how 
strong your CS is but that seems a bit much for most folks.  For under $50 
you can make thousands of tests with this little toy.   And it's repeatable.


Good luck.

Trem
www.silvergen.com


At 01:18 PM 6/24/00 -0500, you wrote:

Seems like there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that work and
there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that did not work.  It has
been said that James Holmes and Robert L. Berger each have
spectrophotometers, and that is one of only two methods of correctly
measuring ppm (ug/ml).  (The other is with an I.S.E.(ion specific
electrode) which Ivan has).  Why would James and Roberts
spectrophotometers, work and the Hanna HI 93737 Silver Meter not work?

Erwin (In quest of a meter to measaure my silver)

Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>



Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> We tried one and it did not work with colloidal silver. Was told it
> was for use with dissolved silver such as in waste treatment plants
> etc. The sample measured the same as the blank or as much as 25% of
> the readings done on our CS by Kimball Labs as I recall. Would have
> been a good way to test if it had worked.  All readings were not
> repeatable and were way off the mark.
>
> We even tried digesting the silver in nitric acid to see if that would
> help.  It didn't.




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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[w8w8]

Seems like there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that work and
there are spectrophotometer that use reagents that did not work.  It has
been said that James Holmes and Robert L. Berger each have
spectrophotometers, and that is one of only two methods of correctly
measuring ppm (ug/ml).  (The other is with an I.S.E.(ion specific
electrode) which Ivan has).  Why would James and Roberts
spectrophotometers, work and the Hanna HI 93737 Silver Meter not work?

Erwin (In quest of a meter to measaure my silver)

Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>



Trem wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> We tried one and it did not work with colloidal silver. Was told it
> was for use with dissolved silver such as in waste treatment plants
> etc. The sample measured the same as the blank or as much as 25% of
> the readings done on our CS by Kimball Labs as I recall. Would have
> been a good way to test if it had worked.  All readings were not
> repeatable and were way off the mark.
>
> We even tried digesting the silver in nitric acid to see if that would
> help.  It didn't.




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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James Osbourne, Holmes]

That is the general plan; it is better to do the dilutions in larger 
volumes than minims, because the measurement error will be less.

The silver reagents are designed to measure very small amounts of silver 
contamination in surface waters; the CS is stronger by several orders of 
magnitude.

PPM = mg/L

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   w8w8 [SMTP:w...@earthlink.net]
Sent:   Friday, June 23, 2000 10:05 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject:Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

Interesting that you should point out the Hanna model HI93737 since it
measures silver and not conductivity.  I have been looking at the specs for
this instrument for about a month now and figured that it might not be
applicable for measuring CS manufacturing for a couple of reasons.  First, 
I

could find no reference to it in the CS archives and I thought you guys 
knew

everything about everything.   >don't we wish<

Someplace I think that I read the relationship between ppm and mg/L.   I
thought it was a 1:1 relationship but so far I have been too lazy to look 
it
up.
Old age will do it every time.

I wasn't sure, but if the above is the case, it seems like a full scale
reading of
1.000 mg/L was too sensitive and I would have to do dilutions. Depending
on the volume of the cuvet, something like 10 drops of CS in the cuvet and
fill with distilled water maybe.

Do you or any of your fellow brains know why it wouldn't work?

Erwin

Ivan Anderson wrote:

> http://www.hannainst.com/products/ion/93737.htm
>
> Ivan
>


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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Trem]

Hi,

We tried one and it did not work with colloidal silver. Was told it was for 
use with dissolved silver such as in waste treatment plants etc. The sample 
measured the same as the blank or as much as 25% of the readings done on 
our CS by Kimball Labs as I recall. Would have been a good way to test if 
it had worked.  All readings were not repeatable and were way off the mark.


We even tried digesting the silver in nitric acid to see if that would 
help.  It didn't.


Trem
www.silvergen.com



At 08:47 AM 6/23/00 -0600, you wrote:

How many tests in each Hanna lot?

The thing is a dedicated single-element spectrophotometer.  They save big
bucks by having a single color LED as the light source instead of the
precise opto-mechanics needed to precisely align a diffraction plate to
produce a wide range of frequencies.

This would make it feasible for more home CS makers to measure the strength
of their sol.

The glassware is still going to cost a few hundred more though...

Dilution will be based on the concentration of the silver you are making; I
try to dilute to the middle of the range of the reagents.

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   Ivan Anderson [SMTP:i...@win.co.nz]
Sent:   Friday, June 23, 2000 5:49 AM
To: Silver-List
Subject:Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

Well that's not bad is it. Damn site cheaper than Hanna.

Do you need to dilute CS 10 -100 :1?

Ivan.


- Original Message -
From: "James Osbourne, Holmes" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, 23 June 2000 02:22
Subject: RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter


> Way cool.
>
> Do you know how many tests come in the reagent set?
>
> The Hach reagents are calibrated at 560 nm, and this unit is at 555.
One might be able to use Hach reagents.
>
> You get 50 for about 55 bux with Hach.
>
> James Osbourne Holmes
> a...@trail.com
> FTNWO



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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[w8w8]

Interesting that you should point out the Hanna model HI93737 since it
measures silver and not conductivity.  I have been looking at the specs for
this instrument for about a month now and figured that it might not be
applicable for measuring CS manufacturing for a couple of reasons.  First, I

could find no reference to it in the CS archives and I thought you guys knew

everything about everything.   >don’t we wish<

Someplace I think that I read the relationship between ppm and mg/L.   I
thought it was a 1:1 relationship but so far I have been too lazy to look it
up.
Old age will do it every time.

I wasn’t sure, but if the above is the case, it seems like a full scale
reading of
1.000 mg/L was too sensitive and I would have to do dilutions. Depending
on the volume of the cuvet, something like 10 drops of CS in the cuvet and
fill with distilled water maybe.

Do you or any of your fellow brains know why it wouldn’t work?

Erwin

Ivan Anderson wrote:

> http://www.hannainst.com/products/ion/93737.htm
>
> Ivan
>


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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James Osbourne, Holmes]

How many tests in each Hanna lot?

The thing is a dedicated single-element spectrophotometer.  They save big 
bucks by having a single color LED as the light source instead of the 
precise opto-mechanics needed to precisely align a diffraction plate to 
produce a wide range of frequencies.

This would make it feasible for more home CS makers to measure the strength 
of their sol.

The glassware is still going to cost a few hundred more though...

Dilution will be based on the concentration of the silver you are making; I 
try to dilute to the middle of the range of the reagents.

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   Ivan Anderson [SMTP:i...@win.co.nz]
Sent:   Friday, June 23, 2000 5:49 AM
To: Silver-List
Subject:Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

Well that's not bad is it. Damn site cheaper than Hanna.

Do you need to dilute CS 10 -100 :1?

Ivan.


- Original Message -
From: "James Osbourne, Holmes" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, 23 June 2000 02:22
Subject: RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter


> Way cool.
>
> Do you know how many tests come in the reagent set?
>
> The Hach reagents are calibrated at 560 nm, and this unit is at 555.
One might be able to use Hach reagents.
>
> You get 50 for about 55 bux with Hach.
>
> James Osbourne Holmes
> a...@trail.com
> FTNWO



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Re: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Ivan Anderson]

Well that's not bad is it. Damn site cheaper than Hanna.

Do you need to dilute CS 10 -100 :1?

Ivan.


- Original Message -
From: "James Osbourne, Holmes" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, 23 June 2000 02:22
Subject: RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter


> Way cool.
>
> Do you know how many tests come in the reagent set?
>
> The Hach reagents are calibrated at 560 nm, and this unit is at 555.
One might be able to use Hach reagents.
>
> You get 50 for about 55 bux with Hach.
>
> James Osbourne Holmes
> a...@trail.com
> FTNWO



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RE: CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[James Osbourne, Holmes]

Way cool.  

Do you know how many tests come in the reagent set?

The Hach reagents are calibrated at 560 nm, and this unit is at 555.  One might 
be able to use Hach reagents. 
 
You get 50 for about 55 bux with Hach.

James Osbourne Holmes
a...@trail.com
FTNWO


-Original Message-
From:   Ivan Anderson [SMTP:i...@win.co.nz]
Sent:   Thursday, June 22, 2000 6:37 AM
To: Silver-List
Subject:CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

 << File: ATT0.txt; charset = Windows-1252 >> 


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CS>HI 93737 Silver Meter

[Ivan Anderson]

http://www.hannainst.com/products/ion/93737.htm

Ivan


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Silver Meter

[clogic]

Will this device be of use to CS makers:

http://www.hannainst.com/products/ion/93737.htm

HI 93737 Silver Meter

High Sensitivity: The Hanna HI 93737 measures silver from 0 to 0.6 mg/L in 
steps of 1/1000th of mg/L. This high resolution ensures better accuracy when 
keeping a tab on silver discharges. 

Easy-to-use: HI 93737 measures only silver and weighs about half a pound so 
that quick tests can be easily performed even by non-technical staff on-site. 

Supplied with Starter Kit This instrument comes complete with 2 cuvets, caps, 
9V battery and instruction manual. 

Thanks,
Sean



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