Re: [SLUG] Distro for Sparc 10
On 12-Dec-2000 Michael Lake wrote: Michael Still wrote: without starting a distro war, what are people running on Sparcs out there? I have hasd some troubles with red hat running properly (it wont even install), so I am after a suggestion of something else. RedHat 6.2 installs and runs fine on a SparcStation 4. Jill has one at hoem and I have 3 here at uni which are running RedHat 6.2. The SparcStation has 32M RAM. More data points. RH 6.2 running fine here on this 'ere Ultra 5 and an Ultra 1. -- Jim Hague - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Work), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Play) Never trust a computer you can't lift. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Satellite Services
DaZZa wrote:
...snip
Out in the sticks, see if you can get onto Chello Broadband - I went for a
job with them, and their concept is great - not satellite, but HF radio,
and bi-directional. If they're around, it could be worth looking at.
Nah - Chello don't want to talk to anyone. I've sent around a dozen
emails over months and never received a reply. Their WWW sites doesn't
even follow basic business principles; like where do I find. I don't
care really which way (sat/radio). The important point seems to be to
avoid UU.Net. That seems to be the choke/problem point in all my US
stiff.
Most are. The other stuff is big $$$ from what I know and I would
probably have to move (too many trees).
You could always cut them down. :)
F%^k that, I'd do with out a computer first. This place has turned into
the Sahara desert since all my brainless neighbours started cutting out
trees. The street is like an oven in summer. They have taken out six big
trees since we moved in here.
Besides, I'm the only place in the street with a real live swing from a
tree - look out for Swingcam in Jan 2001 {:-)
Ew. Dream on, mate. Not for no $60 a month, anyway. You're talking
bi-directional, high bandwidth, low latency satellite feed direct from the
USA?
Where do Ihug, etc have their uplink? I always thought that these were
in the USA.
Whilst I'd ideally like a faster uplink for www.woa.com.au, it doesn't
generate income, so it is not a likely consideration at this stage.
Wanna buy a bridge instead? :-)
I don't think it is gunna help.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
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[SLUG] Learning to program
I'm currently preparing a 1 semester programming course for beginners. (on Linux) And I'm in a quandary as to what to teach. The previous two semesters I've taught 9 weeks of C followed by a 9 week mish mash of Perl, PerlTk, Fortran, C++, Python, whatever. see: http://slug.org.au/tafe2000.shtml Next semester I'm thinking of teaching 9 weeks of C++ and 9 weeks of Python. For a change. I'll be learning as I teach. Which should I teach first, Python or C++ ? Neither? what then? If any one has suggestions as to where th e best place to start learning to program is I'd be interested in your comments. geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] postgresql book now available
Norman Widders wrote: my copy of the postgresql book just arrived, yay! was i the first in .au? bruce reckoned i was the first in the world, cool heheh isbn: 0-201-70331-9 Who is the publisher? Danny, off to scam a review copy :-) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make menuconfig, 2.2.18 and Debian woody.
quote who="David Fisher" Behold, a great Truth has been spoken, and Mystery vanquished. I knew a Prophet of the Great Crimson Swirl would come and save me. Pah. False prphet maybe. Real prophet this way == http://linux.conf.au/papers/#P17 - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet, Spaceballs -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
quote who="Geoffrey Robertson" Which should I teach first, Python or C++ ? You're teaching people *how* to program? Python... *maybe* then C++. ;) How about a completely left field suggestion? Try "Blue", which you'll find on Freshmeat. It was the first semester objec-oriented language taught at Sydney Uni for quite some time. It's kinda Pascally-Haskelly-Javarey-C. There is also a Java version of the Blue environment, called BlueJ. It got a very vindictive trashing from advanced students, puzzled looks from complete newbies, but a few years out from dealing with it, most actually credit it as a good educational environment. [ I keep saying environment because it's essentially an IDE. It has an editor, interface views, and also a farily tactile method of interacting with your live object instances. Pretty cool. ] If C++ is the "marketing drawcard", you need something you can actually teach in a more holistic fashion - something even a dolt like myself can grasp. ;) Python is great for that, and you can actually go further with it, unlike many other so-called teaching languages. - Jeff (wearing his "I am not a customer" tshirt, which really got up his Maths teachers nose all those years ago) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "GIMP is the primary tool in my graphics work. It is my gcc and Emacs." - Tuomas Kuosmanen (tigert) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
Terry Collins wrote: For discussion - why teach Python? C or C++ I can understand. If I had to nominate A scripting language, I would suggest Perl soley on the basis of that is what is in demand from job adds (system admin). I'd then see PHP (web developers) more often than Python. It depends how vocational the course is - is the goal solely to train people for jobs, or to teach them something about language design as well? I'm guess at least a bit of the latter (given the mismash of languages in the previous course), and I think Python is a better choice than either PHP or Perl for that. I guess it all depends on your market and what they want. Yep. Danny. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Satellite Services
Where do Ihug, etc have their uplink? I always thought that these were in the USA. You're correct. It's in calafornia. Also check out the ihug re-sellers page http://www.ihug.com.au/ultrawholesale/ Basically because of so many people around australia who have not got access to a broad band solution, Ihug are now offering ultra through other ISP's. So basically your ISP has to assign you a static IP (owned by ihug) and then any outbound traffic still goes to you're dail up through u're previous ISP and downloads go through the satelite. Get in contact with u're ISP about this. It's not hard to setup on their end. Basically all they have to do is assign you an IP address and also make sure they don't block packets in their network for that IP address. If anyone would like any more info about this please email me and I can arrange if for you. Regards Edward Murphy Ihug Internet Helpdesk -- Microsoft "Where would you like to go today?" Mac OS "Where are we going tomorow" Linux " Are you coming or what?" -- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
quote who="Terry Collins" For discussion - why teach Python? http://python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ http://python.org/cp4e/ http://www.oreilly.com/frank/rossum_1099.html http://www2.linuxjournal.com/cgi-bin/frames.pl/articles/conversations/005.html http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html Python was built to teach. It's clean and purdy. If you're endeavouring to teach the concepts behind programming, there's no sense hiding them behind the line noise and blurry lines of Perl, or the system level machine language abstraction that is C. [ Not that line noise, blurry lines and machine language abstraction don't have their place. They most certainly do. ] C or C++ I can understand. But will students? At least they'll keep coming back every year because they have no idea how to apply concepts by themselves. I guess it all depends on your market and what they want. s/market/students/ - markets are what you sell bubbly health drinks, flourescent blow up furniture and mobile phone ring melodies to. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- "They cosset us with trappings to shut us up. That way when we say 'sharecropper!' you can point to my free suit and say 'Shut up pop star.'" - Courtney Love -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
What is the purpose of this course ? What is the target audience ? Are there any prior learnings ? What are the desired learning outcomes ? Are you doing this to just give students a feel for code cutting ? Do you want to teach a language that is in demand ? ( maybe this is not a consideration re: FORTRAN) If you are trying to prepare people for a life as code cutters in the real world and a requirement is that thay be oo code cutters then C++ is the go. My experience with programmers is that if they can get their head around the oo concepts(polymorphism indeed) and they write some reasonable stuff in C++ then they can make the jump to perl PHP et al without much trouble. People I talk to in the industry go "Py what" every time I mention Python. just my $00.02 worth. Peter Geoffrey Robertson wrote: I'm currently preparing a 1 semester programming course for beginners. (on Linux) And I'm in a quandary as to what to teach. The previous two semesters I've taught 9 weeks of C followed by a 9 week mish mash of Perl, PerlTk, Fortran, C++, Python, whatever. see: http://slug.org.au/tafe2000.shtml Next semester I'm thinking of teaching 9 weeks of C++ and 9 weeks of Python. For a change. I'll be learning as I teach. Which should I teach first, Python or C++ ? Neither? what then? If any one has suggestions as to where th e best place to start learning to program is I'd be interested in your comments. geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] named slave
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, David wrote: /var/log/messages (slave DNS host) says: Dec 13 18:53:42 fast named[21052]: rcvd NOTIFY(duelplay.com.au, IN, SOA) from [203.23.36.1].1034 Dec 13 18:53:42 fast named-xfer[21179]: can't make tmpfile (named.duelplay.Lm0CQb): Permission denied The master server behaves properly, serial numbers are correct. Both boxes The problem is not on the master. The master DNS runs as root, but on the slave host, named runs as uid Yukk. that's an old version - it should be 8.2.2pl7! named and all files are owned by named. I don't know why they are different, and I don't remember ever doing anything to make them different. What should they be? The directory where the slave files are written to must be owned by named. Temporary files are written to that directory and then renamed... This is what fails in your case. tom. Consultant AUSSECPhone: 61 4 1768 2202 339 Blaxland Rd., Ryde NSW 2112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
Jeff Waugh wrote:
..snip.
s/market/students/ - markets are what you sell bubbly health drinks,
flourescent blow up furniture and mobile phone ring melodies to.
Unfortunately TAFE has been into markets for a long, long time, despite
the best efforts of many people who want to teach/educate/inform
"students".
I have no doubt that Geoff thinks of them as students, but he does have
to consider "the market", or at least enough of a market to give him an
ongoing course and I'm sure this is an opportunity for likely students
to indicate "the market".
It is just which side of the coin you look at it from.
Slug is a market to some people!
However, thankfully missing the "bubbly" excesses.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 10:18:01PM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who="Geoffrey Robertson" Which should I teach first, Python or C++ ? You're teaching people *how* to program? Python... *maybe* then C++. ;) thats what I was thinking. Only drawback is I know a little more C than I do Python. However, I'v got 6 weeks head start. How about a completely left field suggestion? Try "Blue", which you'll find on Freshmeat. It was the first semester objec-oriented language taught at Sydney Uni for quite some time. It's kinda Pascally-Haskelly-Javarey-C. I'll definately have a look at it. Waht do universities start with now? Java I'd be guessing. There is also a Java version of the Blue environment, called BlueJ. It got a very vindictive trashing from advanced students, puzzled looks from complete newbies, but a few years out from dealing with it, most actually credit it as a good educational environment. [ I keep saying environment because it's essentially an IDE. It has an editor, interface views, and also a farily tactile method of interacting with your live object instances. Pretty cool. ] If C++ is the "marketing drawcard", you need something you can actually teach in a more holistic fashion - something even a dolt like myself can grasp. ;) Python is great for that, and you can actually go further with it, unlike many other so-called teaching languages. The only thing I have against Python (after my first tentative steps) is that it's a little dull. But I've only just started. geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make menuconfig, 2.2.18 and Debian woody.
This one time, at band camp, David Fisher said: In file included from lxdialog.c:22: dialog.h:29: curses.h: No such file or directory apt-get install libncurses-dev -- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using (o_ ' Windows NT for mission-critical applications." //\ -- What Yoda *meant* to say, Devin L. Ganger, scary.devil.monastery v_/_ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Learning to program
I'm currently a student at Sydney Uni (having a second go at a BSc after 20 years). As far as I understand, they ditched Blue as of this year for Java as a first language. I believe they are still using the Blue environment (a variant called BlueJ, which I think someone else mentioned). In terms of teaching people their first programming language, I think Java is a good idea, simply because most people who've decided to learn programming have probably heard of it, and it provides pretty much the same facilities as, say, C++, while holding your hand tightly and is something that they can potentially actually use when they get out into the workforce (unlike Blue). Of course, market value shouldn't necessarily be the main criterion, but everything else being equal, it's worth considering. I can't imagine what it must be like to write C++ code in a first programming course and spend hours trying to track down some silly typo that's causing a memory scribble which is trashing your program. I don't think that is a very encouraging introduction for most people :-). If you did want to go with C++, the one point I would make is that it should be taught using the STL from day one. This allows people to write reasonably non-trivial programs without having to know every feature of C++. There's an excellent book available now, by Andrew Koenig and Barbra Moo, called Accelerated C++ that takes this approach and does an excellent job of it. While it's very likely that not one person in your course will have heard of Python, they are likely to get into it very quickly, because it is designed to be straightforward to write ... AND read (unlike perl ... yes, you can write readable perl, but most people just don't seem to bother). It provides the same kinds of data structures as perl, so people can write serious programs almost from the start. I think it's already been mentioned that Tk access is available from Python, so you can give people a nice experience by letting them do some basic GUI programming, a la the suggestion from the chap who said his first language was VB, without using (or paying for) proprietary licences. Of course, if you wanted to go way out to left field, you could try teaching Ruby :-). Or, as my C++ lecturer suggested, Befunge ... of course, that's not a serious suggestion! Also, I note from the course page that you get into regular expressions , shell scripting and revision control. That's a good idea for people who are going to work in a UNIX environment. The earlier people pick up those skills, the easier life is for them later on, since it makes their everyday experience more manageable. Of course, you should be summarily executed for mentioning emacs to them :-). --- Harry Ohlsen -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] OT - New Bad Old Days
Sluggers; Being an ex-Yank and knowing and following what happens there, I'm pretty sure that the incoming Bush administration will stop the prosecution of MS one way or another. It was a political decision of the Reagan/Bush administrations in the 80s and early 90s not to prosecute MS despite the DOJ having the goods on them. Even though MS has been convicted of anti-trust law violations and the case is still before the courts, the administration can direct the DOJ to drop the case by cutting off the funding to continue it. Look for MS to return to it's predacious practices ... threatening smaller software and hardware companies if they deal with anyone else, attempting to take over the Net with propriety software etc. MS donated A LOT of money to the Republicans. Hope the open source movement is strong enough to withstand the onslaught. Richard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 02:42:30AM +1100, avant wrote: Coming from a students point of view I have this to say: Id suggest teaching the students something simple to start off with, that gives them enough room to go off and 'play' with in their own time. Myself personally, I learnt basic programming (ie, a program made screens appear) wit Visual Basic. I think this is a great tool to understand the very basics of code flow, with ifthens, etc.. for a course called "Programming in a Linux Environment" the VB idea is a little wacky but what the hell. After all teh Microsoft Corperation out of the goodness of their hearts do provide TAFE with unlimited _free_ site licences for anything called .*2000$ . I have the 8 CD's on the table beside me and I've been wondering what to do with them. But the question is 'Does Visual Studio 2000 run under wine and are there GPL issues with the a.out's thereby produced?' Seriously though, a RAD environment might be a good thing for beginner programmers. Start with a muck around with Kylix or Glade or some such. Might be a good thing, I dont't know. At the university *hides* i attend, we are taught c++ in beginner programming classes. I think this is a great idea rather than giving us a sandbox of 'blue' we are giving a playground of C++ in which we can take the very basic stuff we know and make very powerful applications on almost any operating system. But it also allows us to understand programming principles and object orientation (and spelling hehe.) Subtitles: visual basic (very briefly), followed by c++. what id like to see is a question from someone on how to teach people how to become hax0rs. :) i I cover that topic in lesson 1: 1. Come to geoffrey's course 2. Do CS degree 3. read ESR 4. Buy O'Reily books 5. Give up day job 6. Code lots geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 04:19:58AM +1100, Harry Ohlsen wrote: Of course, you should be summarily executed for mentioning emacs to them :-). I know, I know! There are always some students who seem to be unable to grasp how to press two keys at the same time. So I do show them how to use one of the less complex editors like pico or vi and they do their best with one of those. :) geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Re: New Bad Old Days
incoming Bush administration will stop the prosecution of MS one way or anothe Hope the open source movement is strong enough to withstand the onslaught. Don't you worry about that! Our failure is only possible through wide spread apathy and a mass attack of individualistic greed. Fortunately, truth is a great beacon, and good ideas are held in high esteem. Good sense, fair play, decency, honesty : you just can't keep these things down. The light won't go out, too many people are holding candles now. (anyone want to add to the SLUG platitudes list :) Jamie -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] OT - New Bad Old Days
Richard Blackburn wrote:
Hope the open source movement is strong enough to withstand the
onslaught.
Probably an "old chestnut" (and thus I'm flaunting newbie ignorance
here), but read the following yesterday:
http://www.cnbc.com/home/001208plotkin.html
An exerpt:
Microsoft doesn't talk about its Linux strategy very much. But it
is an open secret in Silicon Valley that the company could rather
easily steal the thunder from faddishly popular Linux firms, such
as Caldera Systems Inc. {CALD} and Red Hat Inc. {RHAT}, at just
about anytime it chooses.
Microsoft could, in fact, co-opt the open-source movement the way it
co-opted the Web-browser business -- after it found that its
proprietary online technologies couldn't compete with the Internet
formats that Netscape was popularizing.
(...and why can't I get away from any reference to that bloody
"Survivor" show?)
Cheers
Marc
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Re: [SLUG] Lilo W2K
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 07:25:51PM +1100, Richard Blackburn wrote: I seem to recall that if you set up NT or W2K using NTFS instead of FAT, that dual booting becomes a problem and that you have to use a boot Wrong. This may have been true with older versions of LILO, but v0.20 (and that's two years old) doesn't have this problem. I have two dual-boot Linux + NT systems and both NT installations use NTFS. LILO happily boots either Linux or NT on both. Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Distro for Sparc 10
Jim Hague [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 12-Dec-2000 Michael Lake wrote: Michael Still wrote: without starting a distro war, what are people running on Sparcs out there? I have hasd some troubles with red hat running properly (it wont even install), so I am after a suggestion of something else. RedHat 6.2 installs and runs fine on a SparcStation 4. Jill has one at hoem and I have 3 here at uni which are running RedHat 6.2. The SparcStation has 32M RAM. More data points. RH 6.2 running fine here on this 'ere Ultra 5 and an Ultra 1. I've tried all versions of solaris from 2.4 onwards on sparc5's and 10's. All work fine. I've never tried linux on a Sun though. Dave (kinda tongue-in-cheek). -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] PDF to printer with psutils.
I have a 200 page PDF file I want to print. So I don't kill too many trees I want to put two pages side by side and then double side it, only need 50 pages then. If I view the PDF file with gv it says there are 200 pages but every page contains errors so is therefore blank. I loaded it into Acrobat 4 on doze and printed to file with a postscript driver. gv reads the ps file and displays the pages, however it sort of things there is only one page, does not list them all. The next page button will advance the page though. If I use psnup or other psutils programs on the ps file they all say there is only one page and screw up, usually putting each of the pages on top of each other. I am currently downloading Acroread 4 for Linux so see if that makes any difference. Does anyone understand what I am talking about or have any ideas of how to get the pdf file into a better formed ps file I can then manipulate? Thanks RodosZZ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better Camion Technology | idiot. [unknown] +61 2 9873 5105 | -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Newbie Ques:CVS
HI, Can soemone tell me what a 'CVS tree' is and how or why I should use them when installing software? Cheers, -- Simon Bryan[EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Technology Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] OLMC Parramatta -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] PDF to printer with psutils.
Rodos wrote: I have a 200 page PDF file I want to print. So I don't kill too many trees I want to put two pages side by side and then double side it, only need 50 pages then. If I view the PDF file with gv it says there are 200 pages but every page contains errors so is therefore blank. I loaded it into Acrobat 4 on doze and printed to file with a postscript driver. gv reads the ps file and displays the pages, however it sort of things there is only one page, does not list them all. The next page button will advance the page though. I have seen exactly this problem with PDF in gv. Alas we cannot see the PDF source as its binary :-( If I use psnup or other psutils programs on the ps file they all say there is only one page and screw up, usually putting each of the pages on top of each other. Does anyone understand what I am talking about or have any ideas of how to get the pdf file into a better formed ps file I can then manipulate? 'apropos pdf' shows a 'pdfinfo' command to extract information about your pdf file and a 'pdf2ps' command which will turn PDF into level 2 conforming PostScript (depending on the standards conformance of the original PDF). Perhaps using this later command you will be able to get it into better PostScript and then psutils can have better luck massaging it to 2up format. Good luck. Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 URL: http://www.science.uts.edu.au/~michael-lake/ Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Newbie Ques:CVS
Thanks for all that, yes it was the software development part of your explanation that was relevant to my situation. Given my level of expertise and knowledge I will take your advise and leave them alone. Have a good Christmas and New Year CVS is the Concurrent Versioning System. Its used for managing project sourcecode when you have multiple users accessing the code base `simultaneously'. You might want to search for information on Version Control Systems, since CVS is mearly one way to do something which LOTS of programs all implement in different ways. [Other systems include M$ Visual SourceSafe, RCS, Perforce PVCS... there are more] A CVS tree is a code-tree managed by CVS [or CVS server]. Public CVS servers make it possible to 'check-out' the tree to your local machine. CVS has nothing to do with installing software at all. What you *might* be talking about are the `CVS' versions of software - which are the `raw' `unfinished' programs as they stand in the CVS tree. I do NOT recommend that you ever run CVS code unless you yourself are a developer, and have the skill and/or knowledge on how to fix things when they explode - if you're checking-out live from the CVS tree, you get lucky sometimes, and get a copy that'll build out of the box. Othertimes, you'll get code that nearly compiles. And then you'll occasionally get code that compiles, but crashes-and-burns immediately... Oh well! Ce la vie! You should wait for either snapshots [some projects do nightly snapshots with no guaranty on compilability/status, like Enlightenment - but I've had good fun with these snapshots :)], or release versions. --==-- Crossfire | This email was brought to you [EMAIL PROTECTED] | on 100% Recycled Electrons --==-- - Original Message - From: "Simon Bryan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:10 AM Subject: [SLUG] Newbie Ques:CVS HI, Can soemone tell me what a 'CVS tree' is and how or why I should use them when installing software? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- Simon Bryan[EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Technology Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] OLMC Parramatta -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Tradeserver
Has anyone used Bynari's Tradeserver? I'm wanting to download a demo version but their ftp site has been changed. I'm interested in anyone's comments about the software. It looks like it might be a good option to remove NT and Exchange Server from our company :) and go to Linux-based servers -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Geoffrey Robertson wrote: How about a completely left field suggestion? Try "Blue", which you'll find on Freshmeat. It was the first semester objec-oriented language taught at Sydney Uni for quite some time. It's kinda Pascally-Haskelly-Javarey-C. I'll definately have a look at it. Waht do universities start with now? Java I'd be guessing. I've just finished CS at UNSW, and they teach Java, period. There's a tiny smattering of other stuff in a few courses, notably a course that gives a very basic grounding in c, perl and bourne shell, and operating systems courses that demand students teach themselves c. But essentially the only language that's really taught in any depth is Java, which most courses require. Haskell is used as an introduction to programming, I think based on the idea that the most dependable proficiency of students is maths and that a functional language is more easily parsed by someone who knows some maths. I have brothers doing CS at USyd and Wollongong, and I would encourage you to take a pass on teaching Blue. I haven't heard any advantages to teaching it that are even close to the disadvantages of teaching a dead language. I think you learn programming by doing it and getting advice and feedback from others who also do it. If you can't talk to a lot of people (and not just a lecturer and other students) who program in a language I think you are at a very serious learning disadvantage. If you can look at a real app you use all the time and read its code, that's fantastic. I think the "market" is a secondary consideration, the primary one being that there's lots of code out there in the language you can look at, that you can see how the language has been applied to real problems, and can talk with other people with a common frame of reference. Wollongong teaches c++ and my main impression is that c++ is too difficult for a beginners course, because in 9 weeks your time is taken up with learning the syntax, rather than learning how to use the language. Personally I don't see any reason why you would move away from c. If you really want to teach OO, then perhaps you are trying to cram too much into the course. Maybe then you should drop out the scripting, and teach procedural programming in c++ for the first 9 weeks and then extend it to the OO side in the second half. Personally I still think that's quite a lot unless you have bright, dedicated students. The other possibility is to teach Java. I think it was a disaster as a foundation for a whole CS course at UNSW, but it was a good subject for learning the fundamentals of programming. I worked for the last two years of my course as a Java tutor for the Uni, and the Java was great for the students who really wanted to learn. cheers, Martin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Telstra EDI Software
Hi all, Anybody had much experience with telstra's EDI network ? It is used by lots of automotive companies, my fathers company has had to set it up, and where stuck using the godawful, completely ancient dos app to do the work. Anybody know of any linux stuff that can talk to the EDI network ? Jason Looked into this for a client of mine, however it seems that the network and EDI itself is really just so proprietry and ugly that it looks a massive task to get it talking the same language. There was an ask slashdot about it as well. The guy was going to start writing his own generic interface. But he prob had as much hope writing a universal translator :( dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Learning to program
On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 11:10:05PM +, Steven downing wrote: Hi Geoffrey, I'd be interested in knowing some more about this course, especially expected days/times/cost etc. And seeing as I'm looking at learning both Python and C/C++ right now your course might be a good idea. As a student/consumer I'd say Python and C are good choices. Python for its easy-in to programming, whilst still extolling OO etc, and C because it's still the main development language for Linux it seems. Mind you this is my opinion based on some web trawling etc listening to SLUG. 18 weeks by 4 hours monday nights (probably) starting feb 12 cost approx $100 warning: this is not a well organized programming course, it can turn into a Linux programming mystery tour at any time. But at this time I plan to concentrate on Python C++. You can apply by email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] giving a _very_ brief account of where you are at with Linux and programming, and where you want to go. geoffrey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] PCI internal Modem?
One trick for indentifying hardware of no known provenence is to look up the FCC ID: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid Often that will tell you the original maker. Also there is a driverguide i think. or windriver? yeah http://www.windriver.com its for windows but it has a useful what the hell card is this section that has shots of card and tells you what the chips are/mean. dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] PDF to printer with psutils.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Rodos wrote: I loaded it into Acrobat 4 on doze and printed to file with a postscript driver. gv reads the ps file and displays the pages, however it sort of things there is only one page, does not list them all. The next page button will advance the page though. If I use psnup or other psutils programs on the ps file they all say there is only one page and screw up, usually putting each of the pages on top of each other. Well here is how I got it to work. First problem of bad paging was to use the latest version of acroread, this produced good postscript which all the psutils were able to manipulate. Then I ran into another problem, my printer would not print any of the output files. It would always accept the postscript, but it would not output the pages, but the "I have input to print light" would come on. Its a HPLaserJet 5MP with 4Mb of RAM and I have never had trouble printing to it before. gv was seeing it all perfectly. After a lot of wasted time trying lots of different things I decided to get gs to convert to hpcl, and that worked. So here is my recepie. Take one large electronic document in the hundred of page range and get it into postscript named book.ps. psbook book.ps sig.ps psnup -2 -pa4 sig.ps sig2.ps psselect -osig2.ps odd.ps psselect -e -r sig2.ps even.ps You can now print odd.ps take the output and turn it over and print even.ps. If like me you need to skip postscript gs -q -sDEVICE=ljet4 -r600x600 -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -sOutputFile=odd.out odd.ps gs -q -sDEVICE=ljet4 -r600x600 -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -sOutputFile=even.out even.ps What you now have is a wad of paper which, if you could fold it in half is an A5 book of your document. Now go down to Office Works and get them to giloten the thing in half and ring bind it. Easy. My 200 document can now come on holidays with me as a nice 50 page bound A5 version. RodosZZ P.S. Whilst printing pray you don't get a paper jam! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Good judgement comes from experience, and experience Camion Technology | comes from bad judgement. [Fred Brooks] +61 2 9873 5105 | -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Dynamic DNS with bind and nsupdate
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 05:45:51PM +1100, Gareth Walters wrote: G'day all, This has been driving me nuts, I have searched archives, docs and man pages all to no avail. I am trying to use nsupdate to dynamically update my local DNS. I can successfully add a hostname to the zone but I cannot get the reverse lookups to work or even be added correctly (syntax for nsupdate??). nsupdate server mydnserver zone mytest.my.domain.au update add mytest.my.domain.au 1 A 10.40.1.1 going on the above syntax you'd want something like nsupdate server mydnserver zone 1.40.10.in-addr.arpa update add 1 PTR mytest.my.domain.au. works well but how do I add the ip to name entry? TIA for any assistance ---Gareth Walters -- John Ferlito Senior Engineer - Bulletproof Networks ph: +61 (0) 410 519 382 http://www.bulletproof.net.au/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
