Re: [SLUG] FC5 Kernel headers
Hi Peter, try downloading the vmware-server rpm file again. then run /usr/bin/vmware-config.pl To start the VMserver /usr/bin/vmware Sorry but I've lost the previous emails sent. if it's a test box then reload RH with everything and then do the VMware stuff as above. Ben -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Voice to text
* john hedge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Does anyone know of a Linux based project/product for converting voice to > text? > Festival: Besides research into speech synthesis, festival is useful as a stand-alone speech synthesis program. It is capable of producing clearly understandable speech from text. Command-line stuff. It might take you 10 minutes to get the hang of it. Then again there's konq-speak for use with konqueror. See how you go. N -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Voice to text
On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 08:29:01PM EST, Nick Croft wrote: > * john hedge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of a Linux based project/product for converting voice to > > text? > > > Festival: > > Besides research into speech synthesis, festival is useful as a > stand-alone speech synthesis program. It is capable of producing > clearly understandable speech from text. Festival is for text to speech. Text to speech synthesis is easily obtainable in various forms on Linux. Speech to text, otherwise known as voice recognition, is not. -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 18444344 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Voice to text
That's why I'm interested.I've come accross a number of real life (commercial) problems that would be enhanced (solved?) by a good voice to text, as you say, voice recognition ability. I'm sure there are a lot of other more social uses it could be used for as well. I've also been amazed at the latest ability of some telephone answering systems ability to accept more than the usual yes no or number response.I wondered, out loud to someone at the expo last week and they suggested I touch base with SLUG. Thanks for the response.JohnOn 4/4/06, Nick Croft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: * john hedge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:>> Does anyone know of a Linux based project/product for converting voice to> text?>Festival:Besides research into speech synthesis, festival is useful as a stand-alone speech synthesis program. It is capable of producingclearly understandable speech from text.Command-line stuff. It might take you 10 minutes to get the hang of it.Then again there's konq-speak for use with konqueror. See how you go.N -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: baby duck syndrome
Not to take this too-far off topic :) Though the post referred to does call it 'baby duck syndrome', if I recall correctly the notion of imprinting is considered to be the outcome of Konrad Lorenz's Nobel-Prize winning work with geese - though ducklings do imprint too: Matt wrote: > > > Popularly known as the Baby Duck Syndrome I believe. > Written up here: > >http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-cranky50.html > > Matt Regards, Patrick -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Voice to text
* john hedge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Does anyone know of a Linux based project/product for converting voice to > text? > Get festival. This command will read out a file: festival festival> (voice_rab_diphone) (tts "filename" nil) Switch off with Control-C. If you wish to, you can join the project. Use your own voice, etc, etc. Which is more than you can say for the Mac equivalent for example. But in as much as you don't pay for it in money, you WILL need to spend time. N -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Linuxworld Expo 2007 (was Linuxworld Success!)
Why not combine the Linuxworld 2007 Expo with the CeBIT IT Expo in 2007 just like how it used to be back in 2000/2001 with the joint Networld+Interop/IT Comdex/Linux Expos? Hooroo, Matthew - Original Message - From: "Pia Waugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "SLUG Mail List" Cc: "Linux Australia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Open Source Industry Australia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:59 AM Subject: [Linux-aus] Linuxworld Success! > Hi all, > > I wanted to give a little summary of what happened at Linuxworld and how it > relates to our community. The quick synopsis: > > It rocked and loads of people want to know about FOSS and community! > > So, now for the longer version. We had a Linux Australia stand in the trade > show, which was seemingly one of the most busy stands for the entire three > days. We had some wonderful volunteers help out [1] and they did a great job > in informing people, and at the next SLUG meeting (on friday) saw new > members who had seen us at Linuxworld, so it is a success already at such > short notice of the next meeting. > > The OSIA stand also did well, so congratulation to those people, in > particular David Elson and Donna Benjamin. Donna also put in loads of time > for the AV for the Linuxworld conference, so many thanks to her. > > The conference was pretty good, we had some great speakers but it was at > times a little commercial (pesky sponsors). On the other hand Government day > was great! Every single speaker was excellent and had something really > interesting to talk about and I am hoping that Government day spurs many > conversations about how FOSS is relevant above and beyond business case > reasons. > > So, now we can prepare for CeBIT next month (May), after we've all slept > this one off :) We also have Software Freedom Day coming up in September so > start thinking about cool activities for that. I'll be coordinating both the > Linux Australia stand for Cebit and the SLUG Software Freedom Day (and any > national stuff that needs to happen for SFD, such as insurance and such like > last years effort). Last year we have 15 Australian LUGs participating in > Software Freedom Day, lets try and double that this year :) > > [1] Many MANY thanks to the volunteers who helped out, and especially to > Lindsay Holmwood who was the team leader, and to Jeff Waugh who provided the > eye candy (Dapper Drake xgl, what else did you think I meant ;). Also many > thanks to Steve Walsh who ran around doing required foo (like picking up a > wig for Peter Quinn and getting the SLUG pamphlets printed). > > - Lindsay Holmwood > - Jeff Waugh > - Steve Walsh > - James Gray > - Mark T > - Stuart Rushton > - Craige McWhirter > - Stuart Rushton > - Sara and Mohammad Kaan > - James Purser > - Martin Visser and his son :) > - Jon Oxer > - Stephan Borg > - Donna Benjamin > - Peter Lieverdink > - Darryl Lynch > - Mark Phillips > - Terry Dawson > - Scott Gourlay > - Simon Wong > - Ben Martin > > Rock on Australia! > > Cheers, > Pia > > -- > Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ > > ___ > linux-aus mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus > -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: 1ADSL, 1firewall, 2webservers
Michael Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered the following thing: > On 4/3/06, Ben Donohue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Slugs, > > > > Port forward 80 to one of the boxes internally on say 3128, then > install squid on that machine listening to 3128. Now configure > httpd_accel mode. Configure the webserver names and confirm when this > name is resolved it goes to either box on port 80. Meh. Complex and tedious. Squid, apache proxying, etc aren't that easy to get going. I gave up (especially when i wanted to run both services on the same box). I went with pound: http://www.apsis.ch/pound/ "The Pound program is a reverse proxy, load balancer and HTTPS front-end for Web server(s)." The code is considered production quality. keep in mind it's non-caching. Means no slow disk accesses. My installation consists of ONE binary, and ONE very simple config file: ListenHTTP *,80 # Listen on port 80 # Everything for domainone.com goes to web server 10.0.0.99 UrlGroup ".*" HeadRequire Host ".*domainone.com.*" BackEnd 10.0.0.99,80,1 EndGroup # Everything else to a local server, port 90 UrlGroup ".*" BackEnd 127.0.0.1,90,1 EndGroup And best of all there's zero maintenance if you tune your regex correctly. Plus you can do things like have it do SSL acceleration, load balance to any number of boxes, or redirect different bits of URLS to different boxes (eg have "/images/" served elsewhere. Can run in a simple chroot jail. It's in debian so you can "apt-get install pound". Do it. Really. I've used it for 2+ years with ZERO problems. BB -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu vs Novell Desktop- a real life corporate experience
The attached articles gives an alternative, and quite interesting, view. http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3815/106/ Regards, Ashley On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 21:09 +1000, Linley Caetan wrote: > Whilst enjoying the expo I came across some corporate types at the > Novell stand. Very Friendly and handed me an evaluation version of their > Suse Desktop. > > I've recently taken on a sales role and our team use Exchange to > interact. Email, calendars, tasks. I've been itching to go to an open > source desktop for all the "group ware" stuff. > I was intially going to go with Ubuntu but being an open minded chap I > set aside my cynicism of the corporate world and decided to give the > Novell a go. > After all they are supporting Ximian and Linux (Suse) so I decided to > give It a go. > Unfortunately the experience was less than satisfactory. > In fact it has to be the clunkiest install short of any OS from Microsoft. > 3 Cds for a distribution meant for a corporate environment that will in > most cases have a fast reliable connection. > Round 1 to the well Dapper Drake in the one piece suit. > The duck flew rings around the lizard by ( I suspect) installing a bare > minimum and then latching on to my T1 connection and grabbing the rest. > Nicely done. half an hour from go to whoa, compared to 90 minutes for > for the lizard. > > Now, after weathering the long installation from Novell I move to > connect to Exchange server. > Remember that a huge part of Novell's client base will be wanting this > to just work out of the box. > No dice! > The connector Plugin is not installed by default. Look around for CD2 > after accidentally inserting CD 1 (repositories are not set up except > for the CD repos) and install the plugin. > 20 minutes later give up in disgust. This version is six months old so > the forums are no help and I cant be bothered hunting down yast or yum > or whatever bastard repos' are needed. > One mornings work up in smoke. Had enough so I wearily fire up windows > for the day. > Next morning I send in my fine feathered friend. > He has the lizard for breakfast and after 40 minutes I am reading an > email from a client whose business we have won. > Thanks Dapper. What a guy! > Lessons. > I am sure that the current release of Novell linux is probably much > better than the one I tried, but even if it is, a quick check of their > website still shows a bloated 3 CD set of ISOs. > But the packaging was beautiful. Being in the printing game I recognised > that a lot of time and effort and money had gone into the packaging of > the CDs. I recognised that the whole thing would have had to be locked > down months ago and to be economical they are making large batches for > use over six months worth of events. > So Novell, less money spent on packaging more on making a lightweight > distro that gets prospective clients moving quickly. > Declarations. > I have been a Ubuntu user since that hoary hedgehog so that may have > given me a jaundiced view of the install comparison. But I have never > used Evolution except for brief evaluations. > > > -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] VMWare on FC5 [was fC5 Kernel headers]
Ben Donohue wrote: Hi Peter, try downloading the vmware-server rpm file again. then run /usr/bin/vmware-config.pl Thanks Ben, I've upgraded my kernel to 2.6.16-1.2080_FC5smp along with the kernel-smp-devel and installed vmware-any-any-update98 and now I can compile the modules, the vmware-config.pl returns text like: make: Leaving directory `/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only' The module loads perfectly in the running kernel. However it then reports: Starting VMware services: Virtual machine monitor [FAILED] Virtual ethernet[FAILED] Bridged networking on /dev/vmnet0 [ OK ] according to lsmod. # lsmod Module Size Used by vmnet 37412 3 vmmon 173068 0 But I've yet to figure out what the issue is with the services, I probably need a newer version of VMware. P. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Voice to text
Get festival. Err, except the poster requires "voice to text", not "text to speech". However interesting to see that festival continues to improve. P. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] RE: [Linux-aus] Linuxworld Expo 2007 (was Linuxworld Success!)
Title: RE: [Linux-aus] Linuxworld Expo 2007 (was Linuxworld Success!) Two reasons, firstly the linuxworld audience are a niche targeted group interested specifically in open source solutions in business and government, secondly AES (organiser of LWE) were the sole organisers of Networld+Interop, PC Show and ITComdex so it was possible to add the linux component - Cebit is run by a completely different organiser. Cheers Minnie LWE Organiser -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Matthew Williams Sent: Tue 4/4/2006 9:58 PM To: SLUG Mail List; Linux Australia; Open Source Industry Australia Subject: [Linux-aus] Linuxworld Expo 2007 (was Linuxworld Success!) Why not combine the Linuxworld 2007 Expo with the CeBIT IT Expo in 2007 just like how it used to be back in 2000/2001 with the joint Networld+Interop/IT Comdex/Linux Expos? Hooroo, Matthew - Original Message - From: "Pia Waugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "SLUG Mail List" Cc: "Linux Australia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Open Source Industry Australia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:59 AM Subject: [Linux-aus] Linuxworld Success! > Hi all, > > I wanted to give a little summary of what happened at Linuxworld and how it > relates to our community. The quick synopsis: > > It rocked and loads of people want to know about FOSS and community! > > So, now for the longer version. We had a Linux Australia stand in the trade > show, which was seemingly one of the most busy stands for the entire three > days. We had some wonderful volunteers help out [1] and they did a great job > in informing people, and at the next SLUG meeting (on friday) saw new > members who had seen us at Linuxworld, so it is a success already at such > short notice of the next meeting. > > The OSIA stand also did well, so congratulation to those people, in > particular David Elson and Donna Benjamin. Donna also put in loads of time > for the AV for the Linuxworld conference, so many thanks to her. > > The conference was pretty good, we had some great speakers but it was at > times a little commercial (pesky sponsors). On the other hand Government day > was great! Every single speaker was excellent and had something really > interesting to talk about and I am hoping that Government day spurs many > conversations about how FOSS is relevant above and beyond business case > reasons. > > So, now we can prepare for CeBIT next month (May), after we've all slept > this one off :) We also have Software Freedom Day coming up in September so > start thinking about cool activities for that. I'll be coordinating both the > Linux Australia stand for Cebit and the SLUG Software Freedom Day (and any > national stuff that needs to happen for SFD, such as insurance and such like > last years effort). Last year we have 15 Australian LUGs participating in > Software Freedom Day, lets try and double that this year :) > > [1] Many MANY thanks to the volunteers who helped out, and especially to > Lindsay Holmwood who was the team leader, and to Jeff Waugh who provided the > eye candy (Dapper Drake xgl, what else did you think I meant ;). Also many > thanks to Steve Walsh who ran around doing required foo (like picking up a > wig for Peter Quinn and getting the SLUG pamphlets printed). > > - Lindsay Holmwood > - Jeff Waugh > - Steve Walsh > - James Gray > - Mark T > - Stuart Rushton > - Craige McWhirter > - Stuart Rushton > - Sara and Mohammad Kaan > - James Purser > - Martin Visser and his son :) > - Jon Oxer > - Stephan Borg > - Donna Benjamin > - Peter Lieverdink > - Darryl Lynch > - Mark Phillips > - Terry Dawson > - Scott Gourlay > - Simon Wong > - Ben Martin > > Rock on Australia! > > Cheers, > Pia > > -- > Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ > > ___ > linux-aus mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus > ___ linux-aus mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/linux-aus -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] 2006-2006 President's Report
2005-2006 President's report Thankfully SLUG still exists and as far as I know hasn't got any significant debts so whatever's happened in the past year can't have been all that bad. In fact the worst that's happened is the SLUG server being offline for a few extended outages due to hardware issues which thankfully have now been sorted recently by removing hardware from the equation - ie it's now on a virtual server. Having said that the membership itself has been on the decline in recent years and prior to tonight we had about 50 financial members. This has had some impact on the events SLUG has been able to hold because we don't have that financial buffer to fork out in advance for cost of putting on events. To spite this there have been many exceptions where individuals have decided to get up and run an event themselves and the committee whole heartedly encourages this. Some significant events --- DebSig - I only just started going to some of these in the past year. I had felt that since I didn't use Debian it would be of little interest, however, as Craige pointed out it's not really about Debian (or Ubuntu) specifically anymore and is a great laid-back alternative to the main monthly meeting. It's in a pub, less organised, more chatty and that's all good. When it comes to the main monthly meetings I have attended most of them since I've been going to SLUG and some rock and some suck - that's the way it goes due to a variety of factors. Some months I wish I could be in 2 places at once during the second half of the meeting. Peter Miller deserves special mention for organising 2 CodeCon events that I wished I could attend and I've heard nothing but good things about them. Ashley Maher organised a CodeFest and had an installfest. Unfortunately the Installfest didn't get the numbers for success at UOW but the point is he tried! The CodeFest hosted at ACS Sydney on the other hand went well, but then all you need is power and desks, food and coders ;-) Mid May 2005 Sarah Kahn managed to get us a booth at the Education Expo at Rose Hill and we had quite an enthusiastic turn-out of helpers from SLUG to occupy the booth, demo linux, chat to the general public and actively go round to other organisations present and promote Linux. Everyone involved deserves a big round of applause. Later in May we asked SLUGgers to submit a message saying why they should be sponsored to go to an OSS workshop with Sebastian Rahts. Jamie Honan was the lucky individual we sent along to find out what it was all about. We later gave Jamie the chance to give a report at a SLUG meeting. Many SLUGgers were keen to help out with Software Freedom Day in Sydney and we took the Open Source message to the streets handing out CD's and brochures about what we'd miss without Software Freedom. This was followed up by a mini-installfest at UTS afterwards. Just for interest's sake I've manage to dig up and summerise the main monthly meetings we've held the past year. Monthly Meeting Topics -- Apr 05 - I attended LCA2005 wrap-up OpenSkills network May 05 - I attended Ubuntu Down Under report The R environment for statistical computing Jun 05 - I attended Linux Distro package manager comparisons Setting up an OpenLDAP environment using Linux Jul 05 - I attended Linux at the Lorien Novalis School Apache 2.0 / mod_perl wrap-up + redundant webservers Aug 05 - Don't think I made it XFce lightweight desktop OpenLDAP security with OpenSSL and Cyrus-SASL Sep 05 - I attended Desktop Introduction for newbies Virtual Machines for fun & profit (aka Your own personal mainframe) Oct 05 - I attended SELinux (Security Enhanced Linux) Working remotely - tricks tips and hazzards Nov 05 - I attended Linux Australia live webcast Careers for Geeks Dec 05 - I organised and attended Zig Zag railway trip (Dec 4th) Scared Scriptless (Dec 9th) Jan 06 - I was at LCA Grid Computing - processing physics data worldwide ROOT Toolkit - graphical analysis toolkit for physics data Feb 06 - I attended Training Greenpeace in (how to use) OpenOffice Merlin - Open source POS software used by Kennard Hire -- -- Electronic Hobbyist, Former Arcadia BBS nut, Occasional nudist, Linux Guru, SLUG President, AUUG and Linux Australia member, Sydney Flashmobber, Tenpin Bowler, BMX rider, Walker, Raver & rave music lover, Big kid that refuses to grow up. I'd make a good family pet, take me home today! Some people actually read these things it seems. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu vs Novell Desktop- a real life corporate experience
> The attached articles gives an alternative, and quite interesting, view. > > http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3815/106/ Though whenever anyone says... "What’s more you even get a choice between the Gnome or KDE interface during installation." ... you know they're writing from their geek brain, not their business brain (and it's supposed to be an article about office users switching). - Jeff -- FISL 7.0: Porto Alegre, Brazilhttp://fisl.softwarelivre.org/7.0/www/ What do you call remote Linux firewall administration? Rusty Roulette. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu vs Novell Desktop- a real life corporate experience
On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 11:52 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > > > The attached articles gives an alternative, and quite interesting, view. > > > > http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3815/106/ > > Though whenever anyone says... > > "What’s more you even get a choice between the Gnome or KDE interface > during installation." > > ... you know they're writing from their geek brain, not their business brain > (and it's supposed to be an article about office users switching). > "What’s more you even get a choice between the Gnome or KDE interface during installation." - Geek Brain "For some reason, they have included a second desktop environment. This is only likely to cause confusion and works against this particular distro" - Business Brain. -- James Purser Producer/Presenter - Linux Australia Update http://k-sit.com - My Blog http://localfoss.org - LA Update Podcast, LUG Roundup and more Skype: purserj1977 SIP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu vs Novell Desktop- a real life corporate experience
This one time, at band camp, ashley maher wrote: >The attached articles gives an alternative, and quite interesting, view. > >http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3815/106/ "Ubuntu is too basic, has an interface that resembles a washed out Leonardo Da Vinci painting" They lose credibility as soon as they start attacking Ubuntu based on their opinion of the look of the interface rather than comparing it on ability as they do with Fedora. "Fedora wouldn't even recognise my wireless card." That's at least an objective statement. "[...] and requires too many additional tools and downloads." Could they possibly handwave any more? Which tools? What downloads? Without concrete examples, this journalist paints himself as a liar. No Ubuntu install I've done has required additional tools or downloads. The rest of the article reads like a brown-nose fanboy on the payroll of Novell. Worst, most biased article I read all week. D minus. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] RE: 2006 President's Report
Hi Grant P, >Thankfully SLUG still exists and as far as I know hasn't got any >significant debts so whatever's happened in the past year can't >have been all that bad. In fact the worst that's happened is the >SLUG server being offline for a few extended outages due to >hardware issues which thankfully have now been sorted recently >by removing hardware from the equation - ie it's now on a >virtual server. I check SLUG web site daily. Now appears reliable. Keep it that way. >Having said that the membership itself has been on the decline >in recent years and prior to tonight we had about 50 financial >members. This has had some impact on the events SLUG has >been able to hold because we don't have that financial buffer to >fork out in advance for cost of putting on events. To spite this >there have been many exceptions where individuals have decided >to get up and run an event themselves and the committee whole >heartedly encourages this. What I heard from the rumour vines is that SLUG has become too Debianized and/or Ubuntoized instead of being Linux Distribution neutral. It is perceived SLUG is driven by self-interest. There are many Suse, Gentoo, RH, FC, etc, users than Debian/Ubuntu. I am Debian user myself in my hobby and I don't like other Linux Users devaluing other Linux distros. The archive lists seem to support this. As well there's these perceptions of too much influence by few individuals that alienates many would be members, newbies and professionals alike. These are perceptions I know but perceptions are becoming reality. My 2c's. PG -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: slug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15
On Wednesday 05 April 2006 09:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >The attached articles gives an alternative, and quite interesting, view. > > > >http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3815/106/ > > "Ubuntu is too basic, has an interface that resembles a washed out > Leonardo Da Vinci painting" > > They lose credibility as soon as they start attacking Ubuntu based on their > opinion of the look of the interface rather than comparing it on ability as > they do with Fedora. > > "Fedora wouldn't even recognise my wireless card." > > That's at least an objective statement. > > "[...] and requires too many additional tools and downloads." > > Could they possibly handwave any more? Which tools? What downloads? > Without concrete examples, this journalist paints himself as a liar. No > Ubuntu install I've done has required additional tools or downloads. > > The rest of the article reads like a brown-nose fanboy on the payroll of > Novell. > > Worst, most biased article I read all week. D minus. But your article is also too biased! IMHO SuSE10 is the worst distro they've ever done 4 installs on 4 different HW from 2 downloads and sox can't play wav files No other SuSE has ever crashed on me, 10 has 3 times on two machines (AMD64, P4) BUT I installed Ubuntu. The installation was very basic (curses) I had to learn lots about apt-get to achieve a working system I was stumped trying to get some things to work until somebody here (Jeff?) pointed me at EasyUbuntu repositries then (without any doubt my own finger trouble) chaos from aptget '.. package won't be installed' '.. conflicts with ..' until stalemate. SuSE's everything-on-the-DVD, then online update suits me best. Frankly gentoo (and that was a real pain) was as easy, maybe easier, than ubuntu. (naw, that's a bit harsh james, ubuntu is easier) but with 30 years unix and 12 years slackware, redhat my move to SuSE was much easier that my try of ubuntu and gentoo is just like the old days with internet not tape! My $0.02 James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu vs Novell Desktop- a real life corporate experience
I'm trying a new mailer and that's about the 10th time I've posted a subject Re: slug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15 Sorry! James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] RE: 2006 President's Report
On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 12:55 +1000, Philip Greggs wrote: > What I heard from the rumour vines is that SLUG has become too > Debianized and/or Ubuntoized instead of being Linux Distribution > neutral. It is perceived SLUG is driven by self-interest. There are > many Suse, Gentoo, RH, FC, etc, users than Debian/Ubuntu. > I am Debian user myself in my hobby and I don't like other Linux > Users devaluing other Linux distros. The archive lists seem to > support this. Speaking as a bit of an outsider (I'm not an actual member of SLUG, but I write like one). While there is a large population of Debian/Ubuntu users it hasn't to my mind precluded fans of other distros availing themselves of either the mailing lists or irc channels when seeking help/assistance. In fact one of the most recent(and active) threads is seeking help in installing VMWare on Fedora Core 5. On the irc channel there are gentoo users, debian users, fedora users and more. > As well there's these perceptions of too much influence by few individuals > that alienates many would be members, newbies and professionals alike. Which individuals? There is - as with any group - a core group of the most active community members, as can be seen on the mailing list/irc channel. However the environment I have seen and participated in has been one of come in and join the fun, just leave your flames at the door. There are a couple of people who seem more inclined to argue than others, however you get that with any group and it is a good indication of a communities viability in how they deal with such people. If people are worried about a particular aspect of SLUG or any organisation then they need to bring it up in a forum such as this (which you are doing) in a manner which is not going to immediately spark an argument (again your post is polite, thoughtful and well written). -- James Purser Producer/Presenter - Linux Australia Update http://k-sit.com - My Blog http://localfoss.org - LA Update Podcast, LUG Roundup and more Skype: purserj1977 SIP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: slug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15
On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 11:09:23AM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > But your article is also too biased! > IMHO SuSE10 is the worst distro they've ever done >4 installs on 4 different HW from 2 downloads and sox can't play wav files >No other SuSE has ever crashed on me, 10 has 3 times on two machines >(AMD64, P4) > > BUT > > I installed Ubuntu. > The installation was very basic (curses) > I had to learn lots about apt-get to achieve a working system > I was stumped trying to get some things to work until somebody here (Jeff?) > pointed me at EasyUbuntu repositries > > then (without any doubt my own finger trouble) chaos from aptget > '.. package won't be installed' '.. conflicts with ..' until stalemate. > > SuSE's everything-on-the-DVD, then online update suits me best. > Frankly gentoo (and that was a real pain) was as easy, maybe easier, than > ubuntu. (naw, that's a bit harsh james, ubuntu is easier) but with 30 years > unix and 12 years slackware, redhat my move to SuSE was much easier that my > try of ubuntu and gentoo is just like the old days with internet not tape! what was that someone was saying about baby ducks? My first attempt at apt-get had me going in circles, but now I'm sold on the idea I can't even begin to imagine going back to RPM hell. So far my amateurish efforts have failed to break apt-get packaging. I've heard that rpm has improved, but from my most recent contact (rh 7.3) there was a great need for improvement! Most things I installed back then broke the package management, or else I would get into circular dependency problems, something that I've yet to see on Deb systems. I'm really amazed by how many folks get their nickers in a twist about the "basic" installation on Deb systems. Do peoples really care that much about cute pitchers, condescending messages (Windows!) and animated wizgigs? Installation is something you just want to get done as quick as possible, surely? IMNSHO, fancy installations are just annoying. > > My $0.02 > James $0.01 from me :) David. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: slug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15
> SuSE's everything-on-the-DVD, then online update suits me best. You can also grab Ubuntu DVDs. :-) But, there are some things we just can't distribute, and that pretty much covers all of the post-install stuff most users have to do (Flash, MP3, DVD, Skype, etc). > (naw, that's a bit harsh james, ubuntu is easier) but with 30 years unix > and 12 years slackware, redhat my move to SuSE was much easier that my try > of ubuntu and gentoo is just like the old days with internet not tape! I think it *is* challenging to learn a new set of best practices when moving from Red Hat (and related distros) to Debian (and related distros). But from my experience in systems administration for business and telecommunications, well worth it. - Jeff -- FISL 7.0: Porto Alegre, Brazilhttp://fisl.softwarelivre.org/7.0/www/ "If you want to start a debate on a subject, however, all that seems to be necessary is to involve perennial target Richard Gooch." - LWN -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: slug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 15
My experience with all o/s' is that you don't get the best out of the install process until you've done it a number of times, MS, RH, Debian, Ubuntu et al. :-)For those interested, there's an interesting comparison been done this month in TUX www.tuxmagazine.comthey compare the following distros:Debian/GNU LinuxLinspireSuSE Linux 10.0Fedora Core 5Ubuntu/KubuntuMEPISMandrivaJohnOn 4/5/06, Jeff Waugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]">> SuSE's everything-on-the-DVD, then online update suits me best. You can also grab Ubuntu DVDs. :-) But, there are some things we just can't distribute, and that pretty much covers all of the post-install stuff mostusers have to do (Flash, MP3, DVD, Skype, etc).> (naw, that's a bit harsh james, ubuntu is easier) but with 30 years unix> and 12 years slackware, redhat my move to SuSE was much easier that my try > of ubuntu and gentoo is just like the old days with internet not tape!I think it *is* challenging to learn a new set of best practices when movingfrom Red Hat (and related distros) to Debian (and related distros). But from my experience in systems administration for business and telecommunications,well worth it.- Jeff--FISL 7.0: Porto Alegre, Brazil http://fisl.softwarelivre.org/7.0/www/ "If you want to start a debate on a subject, however, all that seems to be necessary is to involve perennial target Richard Gooch." - LWN--SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] debian vs FC threads (was: presidents report)
James Purser wrote: While there is a large population of Debian/Ubuntu users it hasn't to my mind precluded fans of other distros availing themselves of either the mailing lists or irc channels when seeking help/assistance. In fact one of the most recent(and active) threads is seeking help in installing VMWare on Fedora Core 5. On the irc channel there are gentoo users, debian users, fedora users and more. Yes, but on the majority of the threads that commence with "I would like help doing X on Y (non-debian) distribution", the comments that follow mostly include things like "you should switch to Debian". That's not a particularly helpful comment when you have already decided to / must use distribution Y. Personally, I refrain from telling Debian users that they should switch to Red Hat (except where absolutely required, e.g. to get multi-path fibre SCSI working through a SAN backend, but that's not a common situation outside of the largest data centers), so I don't see why the Debian users continually feel the need to tell users of other distros that they have to switch to Debian, without analysing the problem as presented. My experience pretty much parallels that of Philip: If you're not a Debian user then there are certain elements in SLUG that aren't really interested in talking to you, except to convert you to Debian. If that attitude were to change then I'd probably participate somewhat more in SLUG, but I haven't seen it change for a number of years now despite the best efforts of many of the people on the SLUG committee. It's not a problem with SLUG specifically -- I've noted that attitude from many Debian users outside of the SLUG community. In fact I think that it's time that a general vote was taken that Debian evangelists should just keep their evangelising outside of Fedora / Red Hat specific threads, and we'd all get along much better. As well there's these perceptions of too much influence by few individuals that alienates many would be members, newbies and professionals alike. Which individuals? There is - as with any group - a core group of the most active community members, as can be seen on the mailing list/irc channel. However the environment I have seen and participated in has been one of come in and join the fun, just leave your flames at the door. There are a couple of people who seem more inclined to argue than others, however you get that with any group and it is a good indication of a communities viability in how they deal with such people. OK, since you want names, and dates: * Martin Visser (responding to a how-to-get-VMware-working on FC5 thread by suggesting a switch to Ubuntu). 3/4/2006. That's probably stretching things a little, Martin's email was polite and informative, but the original questioner stated that they needed to do it on FC5, so the post was at least off-topic -- at least change the subject line please guys. * Craig Sanders (responding to a post about time zone files on FC4 with the comment "reformat and install debian."). 26/3/2006. Come on guys, is that the best you can do? You suggest a solution to a 1 hour timezone file problem that involves reformatting and reinstalling? * Craige McWhirter (responding to a post about RHCE exams by saying "or even better, do the LPI[1] exams". So what if the original poster's employer is a Red Hat shop and requires him/her to have an RHCE certification as part of his job skills / training? You're suggesting that he throw his job in to do a different, non-Red Hat certification? Now this is unusual for Craige, he's normally a very helpful, informative, and polite poster, but think before you press that send button please. (Yes, there are several large employers in Sydney that have a lot of RH boxes, and require their employees to have or obtain RHCEs. Some of them are quite good places to work, so I hear.) * Dean Hamstead (responding to a post about Red Hat consultants: "a really savy consultant would recommend a move to debian"). 25/1/2006 Sorry, this is just flame bait and I don't see any reason not to target it as deliberate flame bait. Why? What if the system required drivers or features that are only available in Red Hat? Well, that's 4 in the last 2 months. Do I need to go back through the archives any further? Let's not bring up the consistent RH/Debian flame wars of the past please. Remember that it only takes a few rude / inconsiderate / ill-informed posters on any particular subject to spoil the reputation of an otherwise helpful and informative group. I'm not suggesting any form of list censorship here -- merely backing up what the original posters have said. The people mentioned above, not to mention those few others that have posted on the same lines may like to consider that it's actually the reputation of the Debian community that they are harming here, as well as the reputation of SLUG. Now I don't think that anyone's suggestin
Re: [SLUG] debian vs FC threads
Im only replying to this email as i was mentioned in it. May i start of by saying that i do agree with dels comments that some people really aren't interested in assisting with non-debian concerns. This is fairly reasonable as i venture to conclude that many of the more advanced users have moved to debian. Perhaps to get away from a lot of the 'padding' in fc and others, but even if its just because there is a feeling of elitism towards debian users so people want to move to it. So we start with our experienced users being predominantly debian users. New users will most likley go for fc and rh derivatives. I think this is simply a saturation and pc mag dvd sort of reason. Its not really relevant. Some sort of survey may confirm which distribution does get the best stats for first install. But lets assume that fc is by far the most first installed distribution (which is my observation) Given that, it would seem obvious why experts recommend changing to debian when problems could be avoided by using it. no its not helpfull, but it is an answer. Why fumble around with silly rpms when you can just apt-get something? (i know about yam or yum or whatever) My experience pretty much parallels that of Philip: If you're not a Debian user then there are certain elements in SLUG that aren't really interested in talking to you, except to convert you to Debian. If that attitude were to change then I'd probably participate somewhat more in SLUG, but I haven't seen it change for a number of years now despite the best efforts of many of the people on the SLUG committee. It's not a problem with SLUG specifically -- I've noted that attitude from many Debian users outside of the SLUG community. we debian users can be quite elitist. In fact I think that it's time that a general vote was taken that Debian evangelists should just keep their evangelising outside of Fedora / Red Hat specific threads, and we'd all get along much better. * Dean Hamstead (responding to a post about Red Hat consultants: "a really savy consultant would recommend a move to debian"). 25/1/2006 Sorry, this is just flame bait and I don't see any reason not to target it as deliberate flame bait. Why? What if the system required drivers or features that are only available in Red Hat? Well, that's 4 in the last 2 months. Do I need to go back through the archives any further? Let's not bring up the consistent RH/Debian flame wars of the past please. huray i got a mention. anything can be perceived as flame bait. But i stand by my comments. infact, my real attitude is much more towards those of theo deraadt. that is, boycott anything that doesnt play that game nicely. this is flame bait : i cant think of anything that is specific to redhat and its friends. perhaps there are some strange SAN drivers which only work on redhat. if that is the case, you need to ask yourself what sort of life is this hardware likely to have? if i update the kernel will it make the hardware useless? binary drivers and software suffer from bit-rot horribly in linux. these are the sort of issues a good linux (indeed, unix) consultant takes into consideration. obviously if the hardware is in place and using linux is a must, then redhat may be your only option. but in that case, you arent really being 'consulted'. Remember that it only takes a few rude / inconsiderate / ill-informed posters on any particular subject to spoil the reputation of an otherwise helpful and informative group. I'm not suggesting any form of list censorship here -- merely backing up what the original posters have said. The people mentioned above, not to mention those few others that have posted on the same lines may like to consider that it's actually the reputation of the Debian community that they are harming here, as well as the reputation of SLUG. I think ive been categorised as 'ill informed' which i find a little... undermining. rude and inconsiderate suit me fine, they are the sort of uncompromising qualities i feel win out in the long run. anyway that is flame bait also. Now I don't think that anyone's suggesting that the normal run of the mill distro-comparison discussions are anything other than helpful. However if someone's asking a question about getting something done on Red Hat or Fedora then perhaps either start another subject on how to do it on Debian, or refrain from replying altogether. Otherwise you're (a) driving people away from the community and (b) driving them away from SLUG. perhaps we should look at the situation from another perspective. that is, that the slug list has become measurably less intellectual. perhaps it is that i joined as a very eager 15 year old with redhat 4, some old linux howto books and way too much free time. now a days most of the q&a's seem to be very low level. thus, it may be that many of the more advanced users see recommending debian as a way of skipping over re-inventing the wheel. further, one asks another fla
Re: [SLUG] debian vs FC threads
Only because I was asked. :) Dean Hamstead wrote: this is flame bait : i cant think of anything that is specific to redhat and its friends. perhaps there are some strange SAN drivers which only work on redhat. if that is the case, you need to ask yourself what sort of life is this hardware likely to have? if i update the kernel will it make the hardware useless? binary drivers and software suffer from bit-rot horribly in linux. No, it's not flame bait, it's just ill-informed (so I stand by my comments earlier on that line). Nearly all SAN systems have fibre-SCSI attachment -- this goes for all of the major SAN vendors -- EMC, Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc. To make the SAN switch work in failover mode, you need specific hardware -- usually EMC/Lightpulse style or QLogic chipset (there are third party OEM boards using these chipsets) dual-fibre SCSI cards. The business of automatic-failover and detection of reconnects on these systems is still pretty much a black art, and all of the drivers to do it are closed source. The majority of them are only available for Red Hat in the Linux universe, while the rest are available for either Red Hat or SuSE. No other distro choices, sorry. There are the beginnings of an open-source driver in the kernel (provided by Red Hat in fact) but it just doesn't have the features of the closed-source drivers. e.g. multipath works but failover does not. So the closed source drivers are available (at a cost) for every version of RHEL and most recent versions of SuSE, and they are tied to a specific kernel version and they don't suffer from bit-rot because there are large companies being paid significant amounts of money to keep them updated. I doubt that every major SAN hardware vendor is going to go out of business because their drivers aren't available on Debian, or aren't available to people who roll their own kernels. No, you get RHEL, you install that, the drivers are available for that version of RHEL (RHEL never updates its kernel, only backports patches, so the drivers remain good over time), and you use that. No Debian, no gentoo, no Ubuntu, and no Fedora Core. And you aren't going to get major data centers pulling out their SAN storage units and stringing together heaps of USB drives or something just so they can run without the binary drivers. There are hundreds of millions of dollars invested in this stuff, it's good, it's stable, and it works. You want to connect 1000 servers up to 500TB of disk storage, have it work reliably, and have cluster file systems so you can have large oracle / OCFS / GFS clusters, with SCSI path redundancy and load balancing? This is the way it's done, end of story. -- Del -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
