Re: [RCSE] RES Skegs
Hi Dave: I remember that incident. As I remember the injury was caused by the metal hardware on a name tag on the victim's (Dave London?) hat. The plane came in hot and slid through the landing zone, flared up and grazed the victims hat causing a pretty bloody cut. The plane didn't have a skeg or very aggressive teeth. Tim -Original Message- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike Stump [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] RES Skegs Mike, sems to me that a few years ago at the Fall Soaring Festival, a guy from Sacramento hed the side of his head opened up, either by a skeg or nose protruberances, not certain which. Another post from another flyer calls not using skegs "dumb". Well, I guess that the rest of the world is "dumb". And, if they are, why do the top US fliers buy and fly European planes? No more responses from me. This issue is just causing polarization. Dave Darling RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] To R.E.S. or not to R.E.S.S.
Here's one: Maybe there should be two classes: Rudder Elevator Spoiler Rudder Elevator Spoiler Skeg Jeff Winder :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RES and Skegs
The new RCSE winter calendar, by practical mandate: Downwindvendor- featuring discussion of the downwind turn and those beastly sailplane vendors (Charm School tuition rates at an all time low, due to low enrollments! What a perfect gift for your favorite vendor!) RESuary - Got an issue with RES? Let's talk about it! Skeguary - I know, you can hardly wait to talk about skegs, and you're fairly well bursting. But if you can just hold on 'til next month, the phase of the moon will be more appropriate for such discussions. M.A.R.C.H. - Maybe a Rules Change'll Help. Having survived the winter and a nasty bout with Grumpy Pilot Syndrome, we're all looking forward to the upcoming season. Surely we can expect to do better if we can change a few rules (all for safety's sake, no doubt!) Bill Wingstedt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RES and Skegs
"James V. Bacus" wrote: At 07:06 AM 1/27/00 -0800, Lynford Disbrow wrote: There are no rules in the park where I fly except the frequency pin and so every one is invited and no one is excluded. So you won't mind if I have a skeg on my model if I fly at your park? Jim Jim: It is your park too. Fly what you want and if you want to pactice landings with a skeg, I'll help. If I were practicing landings with a skeg, I would make the spot smaller with each successful hit. I would have the spot so small in a few weeks that a baseball hat would be hugh. See, flying in my kind of park is quite different than a contest. The contest is inside yourself not to beat someone else. Folks, it has been a pleasure to be among you for this little while. Thank you for allowing the bandwidth for a different way to look at things. I got Gordy's address and so I will leave you for a while. Best of luck to you all. Lynford RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] R.E.S.lurking points, again skegs
I have seen Troy Lawicki use one that retracted into the fuse. Good thing too since it was made from aluminum and the forward edge was sickle shaped. The bottom edge could have chiseled someone's head open! He used it in the correct manner thou, he allowed the plane to slide on the grass before exposing the hook. When he pulled the switch, the plane stopped within 6 inches!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone thought or made a retractable skeg? I realize this might place too much stress on the retract mechanism, but it could be triggered to lock in the down position with a simple spring and lock type setup. Just a thought, then you wouldnt have the extra drag during flight. Greg Michael Neverdosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ScrollSander wrote: (Are Rec vehicles plane magnets?) YES! So now you see my backgound thoughts, let me state a few advantages and disadvantages of skegs. Advantages: Stops you right away near the spot, preventing fly-thorughs for blown landings at contests. Perpetuates the spike landings and exact inch measurements for landings. Keeps the servos from stripping and the flaps from being damages. Give you better control on landings There are more, no doubt. Disadvantages: Stops you short of the spot, when you are truely short on your landing. Places sharp, small radius edges projecting from the fuse if the planes should have to come into contact with people. Gives you less control on landings in crosswind situations, perhaps causing the plane to flip over. There are more, no doubt. I wonder why someone would go to great trouble to build a very slick and clean fuse, designed to follow the airflow around the plane in flight and then just put gobs (technical term) of drag on it with a skeg? Remember that a skeg does not just help somewhat in getting the plane stopped on landing, it also adds drag, weight, reduces the directional stability of the plane and also is ugly. Now that the skeg makes the plane less stable on final, you might want to increase the size of the tail to compensate. Of course this adds to the weight and drag of the plane making the skeg less attractive. In all, my opinion would be to keep the skegs. You could define skeg size, but that may only increase fuse diameter to permit the flaps not to hit the ground. I personally prefer to have a plane designed so that the flaps do not hit the ground. A slightly taller fuse will be stronger and stiffer even at the same weight. The additional wetted surface drag is offset by having a lot less turbulance than a skeg. Using a skeg makes doing a touch and go very very difficult. Which is more useful? I think that should be up to the pilot. It does not matter, just as long as I know what I need to have to be competitive, and what I need to practice with. Good rules make for good contests. What the rules are is far less important than that the rules are clear and defined ahead of time. Of course, you could get rid of any landing points whatsoever, have a 100 foot qualifying circle, in or out. We all could get a plane into a circle without dorking or spiking it, couldn't we? Heaven forbid! How about a hand catch option? A hand catch by the pilot gets a 110 point landing, a dropped or damaged plane in a hand catch attempt gets zero landing points. Good Thermals and Troublemaking. :) :) :) Sounds good to me. :-)) :-)) michael N6CHV AMA 77292 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Pasadena 3 FUNction rules?
What will the rules be for the Pasadena 3 FUNction contest on April 29 30? Winchdoc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Whoa, Nellie!!!
Hey, I didn't mean to start up the semi-annual skeg comment. I fly from a sod farm and most of my planes don't even have a skid, let alone a skeg. I did notice, when I was in Arizona, that the stones and dirt there required a skid of some sort. Take a look at page 100 in the current (March, 2000) issue of "Model Aviation". At the top of the page is a picture of a skid. My only point (obscured, evidently, by the use of the dread sk.. word), is that the proposed rules (see page 167 same issue of "Model Aviation") call for a "skid with a smooth surface". I'd just like a little rougher surface allowed on the skid ala' the timing belts and R/C car tire tread of yesteryear. Sorry if I pushed the wrong button. Now back to finishing a Zagi THL... Jim Deck [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Just Ducky Antennas
I'm posting this to the list also as I've had many questions concerning 50 MHz. First of all, I know virtually NOTHING about electronics. If it goes much beyond soldering the 2 black wires together and the 2 red wires together, I need EE assistance. I checked with the manufacturer and explained our needs. He stated that most 50 MHz transmitter have had some change to the RF deck, allowing the use of the same antenna that 72 MHz transmitters use. If this is your case, YES, I can get you an antenna. IF you have a different antenna, tell me the particulars and I'll pass them on the the MFG and get you one made. More than likely though, the standard model will work. If ou get one and it doesn't work correctly, I'll work with anyone to make sure you get the proper unit. Payment by personal check is recommended. George Voss 1403 Lincolnshire Rd OKC OK 73159 glide wrote: Aloha George. Are this rubber ducky antennas for the Stylus good on 50 MHz? If so, I would want to purchase one for channel 03. Mahalo, Al Battad (WH6VE) AMA #506981 -Original Message- From: George Voss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 3:00 PM To: RCSE Subject: [RCSE] Just Ducky Ok, all this talk of sick birds (ill eagle) causes me to offer the following to you, the public. As most of you know, I don't carry a huge stock on hand of any of our products. So, I'm ordering hand tuned rubber ducky antennas from the manufacturer this coming week. I'll get as many as I have orders for + 1 or 2 for stock. Prices are: Stylus type ball mount, $18.95 Screw in type with adapter package for say a Vision, $22.95 Shipping will be $3.50 Orders will be taken until monday. If you have any questions, email me. gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] RES Skegs
Dave, I have been flying the Fall Soaring Fest for the last ten years, and I do not recall an incident like the one you described. I do recall many ankles, and legs, hit by non skaged gliders sliding threw the landing area and have yet to see a severe injury due directly to a skag. I do recall Don Vickers and Marshal Searcy being struck and knocked down by a glider flying threw the landing zone, Don was a young 69 and Marshal just had bypass surgery. What I report here is fact and first hand information and anything else that I do not know is speculation and not reported on RCSE. Contest people need to make decisions for contest people there seems to be many non and anti contest people giving there opinions in an area where they do not participate. This is a problem when real and workable rules need to be ironed out. I guess I have spoken my peace this forum is a place to discuss such issues but if your a non contest person remember your opinion can be fuel to the fire of trying have a organized set of rules for RES a performance challenged class that I stay away from. joe rodriguez -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike Stump Subject: Re: [RCSE] RES Skegs Mike, sems to me that a few years ago at the Fall Soaring Festival, a guy from Sacramento hed the side of his head opened up, either by a skeg or nose protruberances, not certain which. Another post from another flyer calls not using skegs "dumb". Well, I guess that the rest of the world is "dumb". And, if they are, why do the top US fliers buy and fly European planes? No more responses from me. This issue is just causing polarization. Dave Darling RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RES Skegs
Greetings, Are you, deep down inside, hoping that the ones with the itsy bitsy landing zones and skegs whould change to what the rest of the world has? I don't think it would hurt. Might mmake for a few interesting fly offs! --- Mike Stump [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2 issues, landing tasks... the rest of the world uses the FAI tape, 1 meter radius for 100 points... maybe someday they'll come up to speed with a better landing test.. Mike Stump = Dennis Phelan __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Hand catching in Major TD contests
Greetings, I think this is a BAD idea. I'm not a safety nut but...just think of few not so perfect catch attempts! The skegs end of this discussion began with the thought of planes sliding or flying low through the landing site. Not good enough, lets do it at 3-4 feet anywhere on the field. OK, limit it to a "spot" on the field, there are still planes flying through and no skegs to stop a bad landing approach here. I don't use skegs. Dennis Phelan = Dennis Phelan __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Tom Clarkson's email address needed
Tom, if you're out there please contact me, I lost yer email address. If anyone knows it please forward it. Thanks for the bandwidth. -Spud Boy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] ASK-18 Canopy
Can someone in the UK please let me know if Cliff Charlesworth still offers the canopy for his ASK-18 and if so how to reach him? Thanks for the help. David RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Pasadena 3 FUNction rules?
Hi Winchdoc, I don't know what the rules will be at the Pasadena contest but if you take part in T.O.S.S.'s in Thousand Oaks in August, the rules will allow skegs. That is skegs within reason. No 4,5,6 inch sharks teeth. I use 3/4 inch skeg at the nose and 11/2 inch skeg by the tow hook. All my gliders are equipped the same way and I find that this is enough skeg to stop the glider on target. Thermals, Art [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What will the rules be for the Pasadena 3 FUNction contest on April 29 30? Winchdoc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE]
As promised the International Slope Race (ISR) will return to Davenport, North CA this year. The ISR and Davenport represent unlimited slope racing at its best. Davenport is probably one of the worlds best slope racing sites. The wind cranks, the lift is great, and your are treated to a spectacular view of the wild North Californian Pacific Ocean. The ISR used to be listed as the longest running annual R/C glider event. However, due to a CSR management burn-out we skipped a few years. But is back, and promises to be bigger and better than ever. This 2 day race featuring 3 person 'man on man' format will be held on May 13th , and 14th, 2000. I checked last years wind archives for the time spanning about 15 days either side of this date, and the wind blew like crazy almost every day. This time of year is as close to a sure thing as you can get for wind at Davenport. We pride ourselves on running a top notch event, fully staffed with course workers to make the contest run smoothly and efficiently. Over the next month or so I will make periodic posts to the exchange providing more information about slope racing, the site, and dispelling some horrible myths. I have actively competed in almost all forms of R/C soaring from HLG, F3B, F3J, Cross Country and more, but nothing beats slope racing for shear fun, exhilaration, and all around blast. Slope racing is about fun, please don't feel that this is a big event strictly for the experts. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to come and play. In later posts I will talk about what skills and equipment are needed to compete. Relax you wont need to spend a ton of money on the latest molded XXX. If we get 50 or more entries there will be 2 divisions. Division 1, will be better pilots with faster racers flying for cash prizes. Division 2 will be for beginners or pilots with slower gliders flying for trophies. You MUST pre-register to fly in this event, so that we can have a flight matrix prepared prior to the event. Hopefully the F3F exchange will let me post a registration form on their site, else email me directly. Please register early, so this race can start building some moment RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] International Slope Race
Sorry I sent the last message without a subject listing As promised the International Slope Race (ISR) will return to Davenport, North CA this year. The ISR and Davenport represent unlimited slope racing at its best. Davenport is probably one of the worlds best slope racing sites. The wind cranks, the lift is great, and your are treated to a spectacular view of the wild North Californian Pacific Ocean. The ISR used to be listed as the longest running annual R/C glider event. However, due to a CSR management burn-out we skipped a few years. But is back, and promises to be bigger and better than ever. This 2 day race featuring 3 person 'man on man' format will be held on May 13th , and 14th, 2000. I checked last years wind archives for the time spanning about 15 days either side of this date, and the wind blew like crazy almost every day. This time of year is as close to a sure thing as you can get for wind at Davenport. We pride ourselves on running a top notch event, fully staffed with course workers to make the contest run smoothly and efficiently. Over the next month or so I will make periodic posts to the exchange providing more information about slope racing, the site, and dispelling some horrible myths. I have actively competed in almost all forms of R/C soaring from HLG, F3B, F3J, Cross Country and more, but nothing beats slope racing for shear fun, exhilaration, and all around blast. Slope racing is about fun, please don't feel that this is a big event strictly for the experts. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to come and play. In later posts I will talk about what skills and equipment are needed to compete. Relax you wont need to spend a ton of money on the latest molded XXX. If we get 50 or more entries there will be 2 divisions. Division 1, will be better pilots with faster racers flying for cash prizes. Division 2 will be for beginners or pilots with slower gliders flying for trophies. You MUST pre-register to fly in this event, so that we can have a flight matrix prepared prior to the event. Hopefully the F3F exchange will let me post a registration form on their site, else email me directly. Please register early, so this race can start building some moment RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] list manager or Why can't I unsubscribe?
There is a command you can send to the list server to get a full list of people subscribed. You may be able to use it to locate your entry, and unsubscribe using the e-mail address *exactly* as it exists in that list. If anything has changed because of a new ISP you're using or some change on the server you or they are using, or possibly even in your mail client software configuration, then the list manager may not be able to match up the name it sees in your 'unsubscribe request' e-mail with the name it has in its list of out going mail targets. I have had this happen before. One thing you might consider doing is sending yourself an e-mail, and check the mail header carefully to see how you look out on the internet. Not all clients let you see the details of this header, but there are ways. The e-mail the list received for your e-mail looks like this: (Ughh!!) however, it was forwarded by the list manager at airage.com. From - Thu Jan 27 20:12:02 2000 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM by ha2mpk.Eng.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id TAA05755; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.EBay.Sun.COM [129.150.69.5]) by engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1/ENSMAIL,v1.6) with ESMTP id TA A05806 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from list.airage.com (host105.airage.com [12.14.72.105]) by venus.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11484 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from flyby.airage.com ([12.14.72.104]) by list.airage.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 35-56975U100L100S0V35) with ESMTP id com for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:57:54 -0500 Received: from m4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.198]) by flyby.airage.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 35-56975U100L100S0V35) with ESMTP id com for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:01:25 -0500 Received: "O9e+U3G6y7hVIwHPkPns+I1cd81yvQFzw8BFYLr4vZsQnHd0nP/4Yw==" Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EXDZXCNM; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:50:02 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] list manager Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Doug Blackburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:50:02 EST Content-Length: 1505 X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-Mozilla-Status2: What you may want to do is send *yourself* and e-mail. If you use Netscape to ready your e-mail, you can save the message to a file, and the print the file, and you should get the *full* header, as listed above. Other mail clients should work similarly. The reply address you list with your mail client isn't necessarily the same as the address that gets tagged to your e-mail after your outgoing message has visited your SMTP server. By studying your e-mail header and the list manager's list of e-mail addresses you may be able to resolve your problem, or at least figure out what is wrong. -Paul Doug Blackburn wrote: Klaus, I usually unsubscribe when I get to building in the winter time. I have tried three times and never even received an answer from the list server. I wish I was in your shoes at the current moment. I've tried to the letter as I have done in the past to unsubscribe, but with no luck these last few tries. I wish I could drop the list for awhile but can't. Oh well Doug Blackburn, Running Springs Ca. aka. CrashMastr (909) 867-3080 Inland Slope Rebels http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ISR On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:25:12 +1100 "Klaus K Weiss" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I haven't been getting any messages for a couple of days. A check of which lists I was subscribed to with airage, showed none. I keep getting unsubscribed after a few weeks. No reason for this. No backlog of mail on my server. I download each morning. What gives? Does the list manager automatically unsubscribe at a whim? Mike.?? Klaus K Weiss Sydney, Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Wing Loading vs. Wing Speed Relationship?
Don't know about including the slope angle, but for a given angle of attack, the flight speed goes up as the square root of the wing loading. Slope angle remains about the same (unless you reach some extreme weight limitation). Forwards speed increases by the square root of the increase in weight. Since slope angle stays about the same, this also means downwards speed increases by the square root of the increase in weight. Stall speed will also increase by square root of the increase in weight (this mostly affect landing speed...) Basically a heavier glider will move faster forwards but also sink faster. Glide distance remains the same, but glide time is reduced. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Skeg Rules for RES Sailplanes
Title: Skeg Rules for RES Sailplanes A point that has been overlooked in the skeg rule discussion for rudder/elevator/spoiler airplanes is that if skegs are outlawed, designers will find a way around the rule. The optimum duration sailplane fuselage might feature a drooped forward fuselage that aligns with the upwash flow into the wing. The aft fuselage might also droop to align with the downwash. These angles are on the order of several degrees at thermalling speeds. There is a serious landing problem with the drooped nose. If the model lands straight and just a little hot it tends to bounce back up. If it lands a little hot in a crosswind, the yaw moment imparted by the ground on the nose both bounces the airplane and yaws it at the same time. If the model has ample dihedral, this action can result in a rapid and uncontrollable roll followed by an immediate inverted collision with the ground. Hobie Hawks are well known for this behavior. The drooped nose is a problem even for the most perfect landing. When the model is sliding on the ground the wing is at an angle that produces substantial lift. This reduces the friction with the ground and the model slides a long way. This is like putting on a fast green accuracy is reduced. One solution is to mount a skeg behind the center of gravity. Touching down on the skeg pitches the airplane down, reducing lift, increasing friction and shortening the skid. It also tends to straighten the model out in a crosswind landing, a possible advantage. In any case, the Hobie Hawk flip is eliminated. A skeg would be an excellent improvement to the Hobie Hawk. Another solution is to reshape the fuselage so that it has a deep belly that bottoms out aft of the CG. If this belly starts from a high nose, the model is able to touch down aft of the CG and pitch down. This can have essentially the same function as the skeg. Mark Smith did this with his popular and successful Windfree design from the mid-1970¹s. Shaping this belly so that it is aerodynamically clean is a challenge for the designer. Shaping it so that it is aesthetically pleasing is a greater challenge! Outlawing this shaping may be challenging for the rules-makers, but as long as great emphasis is placed on landing scores, the designers will find a way. Lastly, a simple solution is to mount the wing at a lower incidence angle on the fuselage. This causes the fuselage to touch down on the aft fuselage or tail, and reduces the lift during the skid. Of course, the model will thermal with the fuselage pointing nose-up. This is not too pretty, in my estimation. For my money, the skeg is the most effective, aesthetic and aerodynamic solution to the problem. It also protects the bottom of the fuselage on hard or abrasive fields. I suggest permitting the best solution to the problem as opposed to forcing a second-best solution on the competitors. Blaine Beron-Rawdon 1/27/00
Re: [RCSE] R.E.S.lurking points of interest!
At 10:40 PM 1/26/00 +, you wrote: Maybe I am missing something. Maybe there is not a problem at all but I have seen several posts of people going on about how much downwind landing was going on. Ok Michael, now I'm backing up to give you an explanation... You have missed something... you've not been there, not competed or administrated events like we're talking about (NATS or major TD events).. Rich B. in particular spoke of landings at the NATS (many of them downwind) which prompted your suggestion.. Question, was it necessary to land downwind? Or were those people blowing smoke? let me explain what you don't know... the NATS at Muncie, In. per se.. largest un-obstructed field you'll likely fly at... event is flown man-on-man using a flightline of 12 winches set toward general prevailing (or forcast) winds.. landing zones also number the same as the winches.. we use mostly runway landings (modified L-6) with the individual zones staked equidistant apart.. there is a safety line approx. 15 ft. from the LZ where all flyers/helpers must stand... penalties for overflying this zone are severe (0 for the round).. It is a time-consuming major break in the event to move this set-up.. at recent Muncie NATS (almost all that have been there since '95) winds have been light enough that any localized thermal activity determines wind direction.. it changes constantly... you get the conditions you get when your group launches, and the same goes for landing... every competitor must deal with the conditions dealt to the flight group (what man-on-man is about) Most of the thermal flying fields I have been to are shaped such that you can aproach the LZ from at least 180 degrees to 270 degrees of bearing without overflying the winches. If I have 180 degrees to work with I can at least get a 90 degree crosswind. If the aproach is blocked such that there is less than 180 degrees available then there is serious potential for trouble. with 8-10 fliers in a group, approaches from the same direction (from the "hopefully" downwind end of the field are mandatory for all... thermals or shifting winds don't always guarantee such... wanna solve this for the NATS competitors now? again, before making off-beat suggestions about what might work, an understanding of what is required might be better.. I'm sure the NATS comittee is looking for able knowledgable volunteers.. Mike Stump [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Toy Aeroplanes and Being Serious - Long
Folks, this was posted on the F3F exchange after a gentle complaint was made by an individual who is WAY up north in Europe, obviously suffering from GPS. Because so many of you are also suffering from GPS in varying degrees, I thought it would be a good service to repost it here on RCSE Nathan Woods Temple Hill, CA -- From: John Mccurdy [fx:Temporary.Serious.Mode.Set:ON] Toy Aeroplanes and Being Serious - (not sure they fit too well together) I have just scanned back through hundreds of messages in this list. The vast majority are to do directly with flying F3F, combat and the associated attitude to life which comes as part of this activity. There are then a few absolute gems of humo(u)r and some weaker attempts at the same (guilty - hey, we're not all professional comedians!), but all aimed at generally improving the everyday social interaction which this internet thing has brought to our lives. I count my participation in this as a privilege. Previously I spent some years in a UK based list server which discussed general model gliding issues. There was NO humour, and the wrong people seemed to rule. You got a work-over for stepping out of line, and the general discussions ended up being about local council rules, scaremongering about safety and how flying would soon be banned altogether - incessantly! It was depressing, the knowledgeable ones kept quiet, the 'interesting people' left, and the list started to die. It was no use to me. Let the fun continue, but perhaps we should all remember that there are cultural gaps. By just reading our posts twice before pressing the 'send' button. I sometimes write messages, then chuck them in the bin, realising that they didn't really add much to the object of the thread of conversation. But now and again they escape! I too want the serious input, but without the fun the list will go nowhere. This is after all meant to be a hobby! (or is that where I'm going wrong?) [fx:Temporary.Serious.Mode.Set:OFF] [fx:Temporary.Serious.Mode.Set:Uninstalled] Regards, John McCurdy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] 4 Seiko Countdown watches left. (advertisement hit delete)
I have 4 Seiko Countdown stopwatches left for sale. Get them before the CASL 2 day. I will deliver to Phoenix if you put one on hold. See them under "accessories" on www.f3x.com Tom Copp COMPOSITE SPECIALTIES RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RES Skegs
From: "Rick Eckel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Of course my opinion is that not using a skeg for a task with a precision landing is "dumb". It may be dumb if everyone else is using one and you aren't, but if no one uses one..? The top pilots will get the top scores no matter what the rules. Good losers will find ways to become better pilots. Others will look for ways to change the contest to their perceived advantage and will be frustrated when they still lose to the top pilots. This started as a discussion of skegs on RES planes and degenerated into a general skeg argument. Open class planes are allowed a lot of things that RES prohibits. Let the "open" class stay open with skegs if desired, and let the RES class stay simple without skegs. Rick, RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
