[RCSE] Silkspan?
What is silkspan and how is it applied? I have heard of it being applied over foam "wet" and then sealed with poly sanding sealer and then painted. Can someone give me some insight into this stuff? Thanks, Greg RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RE:Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting
Hello Gordy Burying your servo deeper (higher) into the wing raises the front end of the pushrod, causing the pushrod angle to change. To get exactly the same servo/control surface action as if the servo were flush to the bottom of the wing you should rotate the control horn mounting through the same angle, rotating about the centre of the hinge, so that the angle between the pushrod and the line of holes in the horn (which should point at the hinge pin) remains the same. But that's if you had optimised the pushrod/horn angle in the first place. (aileron horns and output arms pointing forwards, backwards for the flap horns and arms, and fine tuned) The worst case would be with a deep section wing and short pushrods. With a shallow molded wing the pushrod angle would probably change very little, causing no measurable change, the way most modellers fit their gear. You may be a perfectionist though. I'm sitting late at work designing a self-dumping wheeled loader bucket system, rotating hydraulic cylinders and their lines of action all over the place on CAD, so I guess this discussion is kinda pertinent to me at the moment. :-) Regards Richard Knott Bell Equipment Co. South Africa Wheeled Loader Marketing Specials +27 (35) 907 9325 (ph) +27 (35) 907 9611 (fax) +27 (0) 82 775 8061 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/6/00 1:19:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Raschow writes: How does it affect the throw and power of the servos, both having the same two hole arm and the wing is about 1" deep. the flap horn about 1/2" high? Not at all - length of servo arm and length of flap horn to the hinge are what are important - these don't change with which skin is used for anchoring the servo. Thanks for you comments, Since I have done so many foam cores and the servos end up flush with the bottom, I assumed that it was the 'correct' way to mount them. But lots of guys with moldies seem to be just gluing the servo to the top skin, deep inside the wing. They still just use the 2 hole horn. Math isn't my thing, so I figured I would ask some of the engineer types out there. Anyway, I have been shimming my servos in the moldies to bring them flush with the bottom skin like my bagged ships figuring that was the 'correct' thing to do. To me it seems like the servo mounted in deep would be pulling against the hinge line, trying to pull the flap service forward into the wing, instead of up in a rotation. What do you think? Gordy ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.bell.co.za ** RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Eliminating horns of a geometrical dilemma.
With the advent of the Rotary Driver System http://www.proptwisters.org/rds2/, the servo in a molded wing can be vertically mounted anywhere. It is simply then tilted so the drive shaft enters the pocket in the moving surface, which can also be about anywhere in thin surfaces. This simplifies the mounting and also gets rid of those pesky horns, clevises, threaded rods, etc. There is no longer any reason to have hardware, horns or otherwise, hanging out of those beautiful wings. Adapters are now being produced by Kimbrough Products that fit the fine Volz and Multiplex servos favored by those flying the more extreme ships. If manufacturers would provide circular openings in wings or offer rectangular openings oriented at 45 degrees to the hinglines, or respond to request to provide wings with no openings so modelers could make them as needed, it would make use of the RDS possible in molded ships much easier. Circular openings are less subject to stress fracture than rectangular openings that have sharp corners. Volz has a round servo that takes advantage of that. The practice of making openings oriented at 90 degrees and further outboard than needed for the RDS, effectively denies the modeler the benefits available, namely eliminating or reducing slop, drag, noise, clutter and getting better roll response by moving mass more inboard. A great deal of information is provided in the website mentioned above. This advanced technology is a reality ready to be used. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] RE:Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:46 AM In a message dated 6/6/00 1:19:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Raschow writes: How does it affect the throw and power of the servos, both having the same two hole arm and the wing is about 1" deep. the flap horn about 1/2" high? Not at all - length of servo arm and length of flap horn to the hinge are what are important - these don't change with which skin is used for anchoring the servo. Thanks for you comments, Since I have done so many foam cores and the servos end up flush with the bottom, I assumed that it was the 'correct' way to mount them. But lots of guys with moldies seem to be just gluing the servo to the top skin, deep inside the wing. They still just use the 2 hole horn. Math isn't my thing, so I figured I would ask some of the engineer types out there. Anyway, I have been shimming my servos in the moldies to bring them flush with the bottom skin like my bagged ships figuring that was the 'correct' thing to do. To me it seems like the servo mounted in deep would be pulling against the hinge line, trying to pull the flap service forward into the wing, instead of up in a rotation. What do you think? Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re. decalage and washout?
The zero lift angle should still be negative, and decalage is measured by the profiles respective zero lift angle, not their bottoms! For most stabilisator airfoils they are the same, as flat plate is very common, but flat plate wings are rare! And even the angle from LE to TE isn't the zero lift angle, unless the airfoil is symmetrical. I doubt you have the tips at a negative decalage, but you might. Under high loads many wings twist and asume a more or less zero-lift angle on the outer panels, thus reducing maximum lift, thus prevents wing breakage under load! Test by fly fast on a slope so you can stand behind the aircraft and at the same level. IF the wingtips do bend downward you do have a problem, if not, let it be for the time being! Could always be adjusted by reheating the covering! Tord, Sweden -- If reply difficulties - use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tord S. Eriksson, Ovralidsg.25:5, S-422 47 Hisings Backa, Sweden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RE:Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting
Hi Richard. . .your lengthy and educated analysis below Illustrates how complex getting the best geometry for the conventional servo/output arm/clevis/threaded rod/keeper/setnuts can really be and what all the considerations must be to best achieve the intended results. Truly, the RDS simplifies surface movement. It works beautifully. As an engineer it should immediately capture your fancy. See http://www.proptwisters.org/rds2/ and especially look over the revealing analysis by space engineer Steve Fujikawa. A whole new world in RC control awaits those who will take some time to learn about this system. -- From: Richard Knott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] RE:Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:20 AM Hello Gordy Burying your servo deeper (higher) into the wing raises the front end of the pushrod, causing the pushrod angle to change. To get exactly the same servo/control surface action as if the servo were flush to the bottom of the wing you should rotate the control horn mounting through the same angle, rotating about the centre of the hinge, so that the angle between the pushrod and the line of holes in the horn (which should point at the hinge pin) remains the same. But that's if you had optimised the pushrod/horn angle in the first place. (aileron horns and output arms pointing forwards, backwards for the flap horns and arms, and fine tuned) The worst case would be with a deep section wing and short pushrods. With a shallow molded wing the pushrod angle would probably change very little, causing no measurable change, the way most modellers fit their gear. You may be a perfectionist though. I'm sitting late at work designing a self-dumping wheeled loader bucket system, rotating hydraulic cylinders and their lines of action all over the place on CAD, so I guess this discussion is kinda pertinent to me at the moment. :-) Regards Richard Knott Bell Equipment Co. South Africa Wheeled Loader Marketing Specials +27 (35) 907 9325 (ph) +27 (35) 907 9611 (fax) +27 (0) 82 775 8061 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/6/00 1:19:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Raschow writes: How does it affect the throw and power of the servos, both having the same two hole arm and the wing is about 1" deep. the flap horn about 1/2" high? Not at all - length of servo arm and length of flap horn to the hinge are what are important - these don't change with which skin is used for anchoring the servo. Thanks for you comments, Since I have done so many foam cores and the servos end up flush with the bottom, I assumed that it was the 'correct' way to mount them. But lots of guys with moldies seem to be just gluing the servo to the top skin, deep inside the wing. They still just use the 2 hole horn. Math isn't my thing, so I figured I would ask some of the engineer types out there. Anyway, I have been shimming my servos in the moldies to bring them flush with the bottom skin like my bagged ships figuring that was the 'correct' thing to do. To me it seems like the servo mounted in deep would be pulling against the hinge line, trying to pull the flap service forward into the wing, instead of up in a rotation. What do you think? Gordy ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.bell.co.za ** RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting
Gordy, If you read RCSD once in a while, you would know this already. Just wondering since we are seeing more and more hollow molded wings out there and foam cores historically had their servos flush with the bottom skin. Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re. Rules and common sense
There are several things that could make model flying safer to the unwary public, while freak accidents, whether provoked by intentional interfering, or not. For instance flying models in a public spot while intoxicated should, in my mind, be as severely punished as drunk driving. But people do fly while drunk and kill bystanders - or just people staying in the area. That modellers fall out of trees or get maimed by pylon models during a race is just part of the game, but what about gliders that suddenly go out of control and crash far away from the pilot, carried aloft and away by thermals or wind. What then? Or when an model air show goes wrong and models end up in the public, with props achewing and wings abeating? Who's in charge then - who takes the costs and blame? Another scenario is when two models involved in a midair hurt people on the ground - what then? Does the club's insurance kick in, or what? A guy here got into trouble and called on his fellow pilots attention, so limping back to the airfield he almost did it - but not quite. Over the parking lot he crashed and his model made a sorry mess of an Audi - The cost, when done by the cheapest means possible, was about $3,000. Both were insured and the pilot's home insureance would have kicked in had he been deemed to be reckless and/or without any control, but he was almost in control, so no money, and the same ruling gave the national organisation's insurers (that normally cover those costs not covered by by your home insurance)! So the two ex-friends had to work it out on their own, and their respective spouses had a thing or two to say about model airplanes - bye, bye, new fur coats! Tord, Sweden -- If reply difficulties - use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tord S. Eriksson, Ovralidsg.25:5, S-422 47 Hisings Backa, Sweden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Power to weight for a motor glider
How many watts per lbs (or kilo) should a scale motor glider have to look realistic in the air? 25W per lbs? It is a DAW Ka6E I plan to power :-)! Approx. 3 meter span. Just read a review of the Graupner Katana motor glider and the reviewer wrote that the roll before lift off was some 70 yards!! To me that sounds massive, but is it? I've seen jey models take off in far less! Tord, Sweden -- If reply difficulties - use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tord S. Eriksson, Ovralidsg.25:5, S-422 47 Hisings Backa, Sweden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] RE:Hey you Geometry Brains, question about servo mounting
Gordy, Didn't somebody do an article recently in RCSD on how to mount servos in a molded wing? The method mentioned there worked real well on my Hera. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Safety benefits of the Boomerang
A recent combat craze was the Boomerang. Great plane, it's still considered the best for combat. Now the latest craze is to fly an exceptionally light Boomerang. Yes, of course there are several flight related benefits to the low weight and I suggest it highly. However, one additional benefit is safety. If you're gonna get centerpunched, lighter is better. Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pleasanton, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] finaly out of the tree
on 6/6/2000 2:03 PM, Bill Rose Haymaker wrote: The tree lost. It cost me $50.00. Who got the $$? The tree? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] HLG Golf rules.
Eight of our club members played HLG Golf on a local course here in Salt Lake City, Utah last year and had a blast! We used the foam swimming pool noodles that kids play with as flags. The noodles are about 3" in diameter and 8 feet long. I bought a 4 pack at Costco for around $10-12. You can get them at K-mart, Wal-Mart, etc. I cut 2 of the orange noodles into 10" pieces on the band saw. The first group was responsible for replacing the flag with the noodle and the last group reversed the process. The noodles were easy to see and didn't damage the planes. And if you hit one too hard they pulled out of the hole. To hole-out, the nose of the plane needed to be within a wingspan 1.5m (59.05") of the edge of the cup. Pace of play was a little slower than I would have liked, but I think we will be better and faster this year. Winning score for 9 holes was 25, turned in by Blake Nielsen. Longest drive/flight was 410 yards, by Mikeee Kresser and Mikeee also had a hole-in-one on a 182 yard par 3. We should have called that one in to the local paper... 182 yard, Par 3 with a Climaxx! This was also a great family event as most pilots had their spouse or one of their kids drive the cart - The drivers had as much fun as the pilots! Afterwards the winners treated all of us to breakfast. If you want a copy of the rules, please email me and I will send the MS Word file to you. I can also send you picts of the event and the coveted trophies. I encourage you to add HLG golf to your calendars. It is a great event! Thanks - Scott Soar Utah 2000 September 2-4, 2000 http://www.silentflyer.org/soarut2000.html -Original Message- From: Quentin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] HLG Golf rules. What is the rules for HLG golf. I know the obvious rules of golf and that a HLG throw counts as a stroke ,etc. What do you use for a hole and flag? Are you allowed to stand at the hole and catch the HLG? How far can you run when you launch or do you have to walk back the distance you want to run from the tee/last stroke. What penalties you use for HLG. etc. Quentin RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] COCCI HLG
HAS ANYOUNE TRY THE COCCI HLG FROM HOBBY LOBBY?? THANKS LUIS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Decalage and Washout?
Bill: I have used washout on several wings but only if the plane had a tendancy to tip stall. I put a bit of washout in with the heat gun and go fly. If it still tip stalls, I put in a bit more until I have a plane that is enjoyable to fly. The idea is to use only an amount of washout to cure the problem. There is such a thing as aerodynamical washout where a different airfoil is used near the tips (typically a similar airfoil to the root but with somewhat less camber). The ideal is where the stall pattern on the wing starts at the root and progresses rapidly to the tip. Any additional washout is causing excess drag. I use Compufoil to create a rib set. I set the root airfoil to "Ideal angle of attack" defined in Compufoil which is typically 0 to +1.5 degrees. Then I work with the washout as above. All in all it is not very difficult and the planes usually fly with the help of God's thermals. :-) Lynford Reno Flightline RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
