[RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
I think the landing is the hardest part! As in full scale soaring, the landing aproach is a precision manuver. It's very critical! There is a big penalty paid if you mess up!! In soaring contests there are several cases where everyone will stay up! The lift is everywhere... The precision landing aren't nessesarily DORK landings. They are what you make them.. If your speed and pattern are correct. It will be a nice low energy landing. I think the DORK landings are a result of inproper speed. Going to fast makes a pilot drive it in to hard. They have no choice, if they want landing points.. I try never to have to drive a model in hard. Besides, the rules for unlimited are very stricked. You can't loose a part on landing. You can't flip over! In F3J european event!!! They are allowed to drive them in and destroy them if they want.. As long as the nose cone stays on the tape, they are ok!! I think that makeing a low energy landing is a very hard thing to do everytime with conditions the we deal with.. The models will take a slightly hard DORK. But I have seen very hard DORKS.. There is no reason for that... Well? Except for Visalia. Where they set up for down wind landings.. Very different comared to what we are use to. But never the less a challenge. And everyone is on the same page. I think it is much better to master the landings than to change the rules... There are many people who would like to see skeggs go away to.. If they do?? Fine!! I will learn to land with out skeggs... Cheers Charlie RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
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Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
Charlie, I think you may have a virus. A second e-mail came from you with the attachment Happy99.exe. You might want to check that out. Dave on 12/18/00 8:21 AM, charlie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the landing is the hardest part! As in full scale soaring, the landing aproach is a precision manuver. It's very critical! There is a big penalty paid if you mess up!! In soaring contests there are several cases where everyone will stay up! The lift is everywhere... The precision landing aren't nessesarily DORK landings. They are what you make them.. If your speed and pattern are correct. It will be a nice low energy landing. I think the DORK landings are a result of inproper speed. Going to fast makes a pilot drive it in to hard. They have no choice, if they want landing points.. I try never to have to drive a model in hard. Besides, the rules for unlimited are very stricked. You can't loose a part on landing. You can't flip over! In F3J european event!!! They are allowed to drive them in and destroy them if they want.. As long as the nose cone stays on the tape, they are ok!! I think that makeing a low energy landing is a very hard thing to do everytime with conditions the we deal with.. The models will take a slightly hard DORK. But I have seen very hard DORKS.. There is no reason for that... Well? Except for Visalia. Where they set up for down wind landings.. Very different comared to what we are use to. But never the less a challenge. And everyone is on the same page. I think it is much better to master the landings than to change the rules... There are many people who would like to see skeggs go away to.. If they do?? Fine!! I will learn to land with out skeggs... Cheers Charlie RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
Gentlemen, The answer is already in the rule book, it's been there for a long time. AMA TD is not just supposed to be a duration task with a landing option. The tasks are Duration, Distance and Speed. No, I'm not confusing this with FAI F3b! Look in your rule book, someone, at some time included a set of tasks other than precision/international/triathalon/whatever duration. AMA fliers don't like them, CD's and clubs don't run them and they're not even included in activities at the National Championships[except for the running of the F3b event]. If you think that these tasks have nothing to do with thermalling, think again! Talk all you want about landings determining the winner without including these skill and equipment related tasks and you will be missing he boat[plane]. Don't come up with, " There aren't enough people to run these tasks!" either!! If contestants can act as timers, they can count laps or click off a timed run on four laps! To use even one task other than duration as a "tie breaking" task in a contest would eliminate the "landing issue". Dennis FROM THE A.M.A. RULEBOOK: Radio Control Sailplanes Thermal Duration 11. Scoring-General. The intent of having multiple tasks available is not to select one(1) task and have a contest, but rather to use as many tasks as possible during each contest. Especially for contests of two (2) or more days, it is presumed that three (3) or four (4) tasks will be flown. --- John Dertine wrote: There is a real easy way to improve the contests with out resorting to the non flying skill of the dork landing. Make the flying tasks more challenging. the problem is that the rules for most TD type events were developed years ago well before optimized modern ships were conceived. I would submit that it is a comment on the lack of incentive to change rules to suit modern ship design. --- FRED SAGE wrote: The reason for precision landings in AMA TD contests is to determine the winner, or more specifically to identify the more capable or proficient pilots. Given the current state of the art with design and construction, making whatever flight task is decreed is almost routine, at least here in SOCAL ...I also can't think of a better way of taking the luck out of contest scores. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time? VIRUS INFECTED:
VIRUS, DO NOT OPEN THE HAPPY99.EXE FILE... From: charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Landings: "a complete waste of time"? Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:21:50 -0700 I think the landing is the hardest part! As in full scale soaring, the landing aproach is a precision manuver. It's very critical! There is a big penalty paid if you mess up!! In soaring contests there are several cases where everyone will stay up! The lift is everywhere... The precision landing aren't nessesarily DORK landings. They are what you make them.. If your speed and pattern are correct. It will be a nice low energy landing. I think the DORK landings are a result of inproper speed. Going to fast makes a pilot drive it in to hard. They have no choice, if they want landing points.. I try never to have to drive a model in hard. Besides, the rules for unlimited are very stricked. You can't loose a part on landing. You can't flip over! In F3J european event!!! They are allowed to drive them in and destroy them if they want.. As long as the nose cone stays on the tape, they are ok!! I think that makeing a low energy landing is a very hard thing to do everytime with conditions the we deal with.. The models will take a slightly hard DORK. But I have seen very hard DORKS.. There is no reason for that... Well? Except for Visalia. Where they set up for down wind landings.. Very different comared to what we are use to. But never the less a challenge. And everyone is on the same page. I think it is much better to master the landings than to change the rules... There are many people who would like to see skeggs go away to.. If they do?? Fine!! I will learn to land with out skeggs... Cheers Charlie RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
In a message dated 12/18/00 6:36:15 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why not have contests that developed skills akin to those required to fly full scale aircraft? John, We are already having those type of contests in the US, gee I think Elmira might come to mind. Scale planes are great when flown in scale like manners, US TD planes are great when flown in TD like manners. To each their own. This is an age old arguement that never changes. The bottom line is to go out and have fun which ever venue you chose to have fun in and if you choose not to fly TD then don't, but please do not complain about those of us who choose to. As for flying and thermalling ablities, I will put our US TD pilots skills up against any group out there. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] He Man
Ok guys, Yes, I agree that the same guys usually win most of the time. However, while looking over the scores from varies contests it becomes apparent that even the best of flyers can be forced to fly in bad air. Sometimes, the good flyers even make a mistake in reading air or in their tactics. This is rare but it does happen and that's the kind of stuff that keeps you and me coming back to compete. Having become bored to tears with the average TD type contest with one point over and under with a 25 ft tape, we up here in the high desert have thrown a little spice into the game. Everyone knows that the most important phase of the round is the last minute of flight. The down wind, base, and final are critical to hitting the Holly Grail, the 100 point spot. Here then is my answer to the So Cal boredum.(sp) I called He Man (With all due respect to our lady pilots out there). Landing zone is your standard Hula Hoop's. CD's assign what ever value to the landing they wish but I encourage them to use low numbers to make the landing less important. Here is the kicker. The flight time becomes the most important portion of the flight. As the seconds increase for over and under target times, the points lost also increases. In other words, it you are off by one second you lose one point. No big deal right? Two seconds over/under you lose 4 points. 2x2 Three seconds over/under you lose 9 points.3x3 Four seconds over/under you lose 16 points.4x4 Five seconds over/under you lose 25 points.5x5 And so on. Clearly the focus on the last minute of flight becomes white hot. More intense that you ever thought possible. Some will say that all that would do would be to sepetate most flyers by four points rather than one. Yes, for the top 50 flyers in the country that's probably true, but if you fly this regiment you will be amazed at how much more consistet your down wind, base and finals become and therefore, your landings. This also helps with the level of anxiety felt when competing in big contests. All for now. Regards,Perry RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] JR 347 module for JR 8103
Is the module used in a JR347 transferable to a JR 8103 or does the 8103 require a different module? Ed, I have both a 347 and an 8103 and have transferred modules from one to the other with no problems. Regards, Bob Johnson Fond du Lac, WI RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Landings: a complete... (VIRUS CURE)
Charlie, In case you didn't know already, you are infected with a worm. Here is the description. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/happy99.worm.html Here is the cure. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/fix.happy99.worm.html Anyone who ran the executable follow link above to clean from your system. At 08:27 AM 12/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Meyer http://SOARchicago.com/stmeyer/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] S.O.A.R. Web Page http://SOARchicago.com/ Now with Message Boards http://SOARchicago.com/discus/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete... (VIRUS CURE)
In a message dated 12/18/00 9:52:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone who ran the executable follow link above to clean from your system. Hi All, I saw the Happy 99 message and did now download the attachment. Is my system OK? If not what is my remedy? Thanks, Rich RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] JR 347 answered
Thanks to everyone that answered my question about using a 347 module in an 8103. Ed RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
I can't help but notice how the view in the winter is "with today's super ships, everybody gets their time" and "the lift is all over the place!" and in the summer it's "DAMN! I launched into a sink cycle and got three minutes and then I blew my landing!" %^) Bill Wingstedt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] VIRUS, info, howto
FREE Antivirus software. http://antivirus.cai.com/ I have been getting hit by the W95.Hybris.gen. Also known as, W32.Hybris.gen, W32.Hybris.22528.dr, W32/Hybris.gen@M, I-Worm.Hybris http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html I like Symantec's site for Virus information. It appears it may be propagating from several people on this exchange! No wonder since it masks itself as "porno" material. :-) People it is very wise NOT to execute any attachment to email. This will include but not limited to files with extensions, EXE, VBS, SCR, COM. Even if you know the person, a lot of virus code will send out mail without the original senders knowledge. If you don't run a virus scanner get one. But remember this is not a guarantee. Hopefully it will just prevent you from spreading it. CA is giving theirs away. Go here. http://antivirus.cai.com/ Steve Meyer http://SOARchicago.com/stmeyer/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] S.O.A.R. Web Page http://SOARchicago.com/ Now with Message Boards http://SOARchicago.com/discus/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Virus????
Hey Guys I didin't mean to send that out,,, According to my server.. The virus was sent by the original person that sent the landings, a waste of time I got that this morning... I am useing my office computer today no Virus here.. I forget the name of the guy who sent the original Landings,, a waste of time. Again sorry I think I will just throw my home computer away,,, Its very old anyway... Charlie RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] VIRUS, info, howto
Good advice to never, ever open an executable sent via email. he other day I got as report that one of my messages here generated a "virus alert", but a v-scan was negative. This List software should be configured not pass along ANY attachments. IMO, FWIW. Good holidays to all! --Bill On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:26:11 -0600 Steven Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FREE Antivirus software. http://antivirus.cai.com/ I have been getting hit by the W95.Hybris.gen. Also known as, W32.Hybris.gen, W32.Hybris.22528.dr, W32/Hybris.gen@M, I-Worm.Hybris http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html I like Symantec's site for Virus information. It appears it may be propagating from several people on this exchange! No wonder since it masks itself as "porno" material. :-) People it is very wise NOT to execute any attachment to email. This will include but not limited to files with extensions, EXE, VBS, SCR, COM. Even if you know the person, a lot of virus code will send out mail without the original senders knowledge. If you don't run a virus scanner get one. But remember this is not a guarantee. Hopefully it will just prevent you from spreading it. CA is giving theirs away. Go here. http://antivirus.cai.com/ Steve Meyer http://SOARchicago.com/stmeyer/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] S.O.A.R. Web Page http://SOARchicago.com/ Now with Message Boards http://SOARchicago.com/discus/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Virus????
Sorry Charlie, the email headers point to you. The happy99 virus is not smart enough to fake the email headers. Are you sure you did a complete scan with updated virus signature files? At 08:47 AM 12/18/2000 -0800, Charles Miller wrote: Hey Guys I didin't mean to send that out,,, According to my server.. The virus was sent by the original person that sent the landings, a waste of time I got that this morning... I am useing my office computer today no Virus here.. I forget the name of the guy who sent the original Landings,, a waste of time. Steve Meyer http://SOARchicago.com/stmeyer/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] S.O.A.R. Web Page http://SOARchicago.com/ Now with Message Boards http://SOARchicago.com/discus/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Why can't we all just land along... :o)
Cliff I have several bean recipes depending on the flatulence factor desired-let me know what level you, and more importantly, what level of lift Dieter will be wanting at SWC, and I will accommodate you- You cook em up, I will meet you at Sunset to pick up the finished product and personally deliver them to Dieter(soon to be human thermal generating machine) at the SWC.-Original Message- From: Cliff Lindgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dieter @ ShredAir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Why can't we all just land along... :o) Dieter, By Golly, jumping yimminey, you will win beans!!! I promise to make a pot of beans the next time we are together in honor of your first (and maybe last?) TD contest. I am now accepting recipies for the upcoming pot of beans. Anybody have one? I want to make some that will speck out a HLG though. None of that stink,.. I mean sink. Lets see..we'll name them in Dieter's honor.what will it be? Joiman highfart, I meant highstart, or "backside air" or what? Any ideas? Come on guys, its winter and a lot of you have nothing better to do. Give me some ideas. Cliff Lindgren "Dieter @ ShredAir" wrote: Last time I checked, I can't fly anything without having to land somehow somewhere. Some people like landing, while others dislike it, possibly for fear of damaging their planes. The popularity of EPP planes on the slopes is partially due to the fact that they almost never get damaged during their "arrivals." I love landing and landing precisely and in a dignified manner, and I'm looking forward to my first-ever TD contest, the Southwest Soaring Challenge in Phoenix. I'll fly an F3B Scar without skegs and dorks, because I want to sell the plane at the contest. Of course I'm not gonna win beans that way, but I am going to have fun. Dieter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] all a waste of time
How about we all get together at a contest this summer and waste some time then. I'm all for wasting time, if that's what this is all about. JIM AND CHERYL THOMPSON wrote: If landing is a waste time, launching is a waste of time and everything in between is also a waste of time. Jim Thompson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Lift Ticket, I've seen it!
I just received my copy of the new video Lift Ticket. Produced by Dave Reese. It's a great tape! It has the best footage of DS that I've seen. Lots of it! Along with a great sound track. A whole bunch of different slopes are shown including many of the more famous slopes on the west coast. Very scenic sites. Scott Hewet's flight at the south end of the Golden Gate bridge was impressive. Looks like you could have used some more ballast, Scott! I really enjoyed the tape, though the dog shredding an old foamie was tough to watch. :-) Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Beans and Why can't we all just land along... :o)
Now the RCSE soap opera is turning into a Cooking Show. If it is too cold and miserable for you poor guys in the deep north to fly then how about sending your models on a holiday over here for a few months. I promise to treat 'em real nice and send back every piece/part, Its just that the shipping costs might be a bit cheaper on the way back ;) BTW here it is sunny 32degC 90degF fine with clouds popping everywhere. Time to work on my tan and fly. See ya -- Brian Ford Brisbane"The Moreton Region Sports Soaring Association Web Site"! Queensland http://www.bit.net.au/~mrssa Australia and "The Large PSS Site"! AUS 55723 http://www.users.bigpond.com/bananaman RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Soaring 2028 hinge tape remover
In the TV biz, one thing you use to get adhesive muck from tape off cables is... WD-40! I'd be careful using this around foam, though. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Saphire for sale
Saphire ready to fly. Obechee/foam wings - natural top/dark blue bottom Fuse with both canopies - white top/dark blue bottom Volz servos - ailerons/ wing max, flaps/mini max. re/mini star Airtronics receiver, 8 ch/pcm and 700mah sanyo airborne battery Excellent condition and ready to fly $625.00 + shipping from Scottsdale AZ. $575.00 w/o receiver Dave Corven. day ph 623-544-2169 eve ph 480-595-9819 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
Apparently you've misinterpreted the meaning of my post, or more specifically, used the opportunity as a platform to promote your brand of soaring. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that as we can all appreciate the beauty and skill of a well flown scale glider. The purpose of my post was to say that landings should remain a significant portion of the scoring system for TD contests. I believe this to be so because landings are the most challenging portion of any flight. I don't espouse hard dork landings in order to win TD contests. If you were to stand behind one of the master TD pilots as they make their approach, you'd see a precisely and consistently executed landing including the use of rudder for fine heading control and flap modulation for energy control. All deviations from optimum glider slope, heading and energy level (speed) are anticipated and corrected before they're even recognizable. A typical hard dork landing is only required by novice or intermediate TD pilots in an attempt to salvage poor approaches. The truth be know, Master or even Expert TD pilots try and avoid hard dork landings as their results will be less than consistent. The bounce back from stored energy as well as the difficulty in hitting the exact spot at the higher speeds that require a dork aren't easy to control and can't be accomplished with any regularity. The pilots winning contests aren't using hard dork landings, only the wannabees. As pilots continue their quest toward soaring prowess, recognizing lift and making required flight times becomes routine. The ability to land well and consistently is the ultimate challenge and the final threshold to soaring proficiency. Fred RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Landings: a complete waste of time?
Key words are: land well, amen brother. Why not outlaw skegs then, thus all competitors would be forced to "land well" to be competitive? Are skegs a crutch? How many TD pilots would gladly give up the skeg in favor of learning how to land well? I think we agree. JD -Original Message- From: FRED SAGE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:53 AM To: John Derstine Cc: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] Landings: "a complete waste of time"? ng hard dork landings, only the wannabees. As pilots continue their quest toward soaring prowess, recognizing lift and making required flight times becomes routine. The ability to land well and consistently is the ultimate challenge and the final threshold to soaring proficiency. Fred RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
