Re: [RCSE] Incidence meter
At 09:37 AM 8/6/2002 -0400, Andrew E. Mileski wrote: David Shanks wrote: I'm looking to buy an incidence meter and would like some input on what type/brand is the most effective and easy to use. Thanks, David Shanks Salt Lake City, Utah The Great Planes one is accurate to a 0.25 of a degree http://www.greatplanes.com/accys/gpmr4020.html I've got one. Well made, not terribly expensive, easy to use. I am satisfied with it and would recommend it. It sure helps to get that initial decalage set before the first flight/toss. Will not work with V-Tail planes. Cheers, Bill -- The one good thing about repeating your mistakes is that you know when to cringe. Bill Johns Pullman, WA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Just a Flying Contest
At 11:10 PM 8/11/2002, you wrote: I've thought about this altitude zooming issue before I posted. On one side of this you could debate that one had to gain the altitude prior to doing this maneuver, and maybe it's a strategy that would not play out too well. Unless you can DS the gradient. - David [EMAIL PROTECTED] USA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Airfoil plots
--- Dave Seay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know where a plot of an HN-354SM airfoil (from the Stork II) can be had? All the info re Norbert Habe's airfoils is at: http://www.habebert.de/ __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Wanted--RTF Windsong/Lovesong
Anybody out there have a RTF Windsong or Lovesong they would be willing to part with. Thanks EDG Pittsburgh
[RCSE] Imagine, if you will...
We interrupt your pleasure to bring you a special announcement... Imagine, if you will, going to that 'favorite' contest of yours, the one you want to win so badly that you've actually gone out and practiced to hone your skills, both in private sessions and openly in other competitions. That contest which, just once, you'd like to say you came out on top, so you've scheduled and worked toward this goal for weeks ... months ... maybe even years! The big day finally arrives, you're feeling like you fly better than you ever have, you're ready to meet the competition, and you know the competition will be people who have dusted you off before. Even better, it's going to be man-on-man competition, so the 'luck of the draw' factor will be eliminated, as it will be your skills pitted direct against those with whom you compete. There's even a bit of luxury, knowing that if enough rounds are completed, you will get a 'throw-out' round of your worst score, thus there is the comfort of room for 1 mistake. Sounding like an ideal situation, right? Now imagine on your very first flight of the competition that the one person you see as possibly your biggest competitor tanks that first round, while you win it. Got that feeling locked in? You're on top, you can win by careful flying, maybe *not* having to take any big risks, and even so you have the latitude of one smaller mistake. Your destiny is in your control! Everyone has to try to catch you! Feels good, right? Almost invincible! Now, imagine the same setup, but instead of your competition tanking that very first round, the person who tanked it was YOU! You *know* you just spent your throw-out round ... if there is one! You *know* there's no more room for mistakes of any sort, even if there is a throw out. You *know* you have to fly as close to perfect as you can, because your competition now has the upper hand we talked about earlier. You *know* you're probably going to have to take some big risks along the way. Got that (sinking) feeling locked in? Feeling a little bit of stress now? Ok, take it one step further! Instead of being just your 'favorite' competition with the best fliers in the area around, it's a world class event, with world class fliers, arguably the best fliers in the world at this moment. Now how's that stress level? Ok, I've suckered you in. This is actually just another congratulatory note to those who competed in the F3J World competition, and in particular the Canadian team, and in particular to Arend Borst. I haven't heard the details, but he was in that latter position, the blown first round, no room for mistakes, against the best fliers in the world. Maybe a little more pressure there, and yet he managed to come out on top. (yes, yes, I know ... given just a *slightly* different turn of circumstances, it could easily have been another victory for Joe (well, not necessarily easily, but you know what I mean. *All* of these guys have to work hard to be on top!)) But at this level of competition, you're much more likely to see someone fall from 2nd to 67th than rise from 67th to second, and then move on to finish #1. Great flying, great handling of stress! Good job Arend. A truly impressive performance, but then I didn't expect anything less. No, I'm not Canadian, I'm a good 'ol USA guy. But, I have the pleasure of flying with/against both Arend and Graeme Clark (did you notice Graeme's performance during the prelim's, and a good finish in the fly-off's?) Both of these gentlemen are not only fantastic fliers and great competitors, but they're also 2 of the nicest guys you'll meet in a long time, and they're both members of the NorthWest Soaring Society. We sorta like to say 'come to the Northwest and fly with the best', now we can actually smile when we say it! :-) At any rate, congrat's again to Arend, Graeme, and Eric (Heemskerk) for a job well done flying, and to Kelly Johnson and Keith Morrison who I'm sure worked their butts off pulling these guys into the air. In fact, congrats to the whole Canadian team. Want a chance to test YOUR skills and fly against this crew, then think about coming up and joining us for the NWSS 2002 Season Tournament in Mission, B.C. This is one of the most beautiful places you will find for contest flying. Lush green sod farms, mountain backdrops, stiff (world class) competition! You'll need to bring your wits though, as the air tends to be tough! This isn't the lifty southwest (but we can actually see our planes at a distance here!) All ribbing aside, need a place to go fly after Labor day, and looking for some good, stiff (world class) competition to tune up before Visalia? Consider the NWSS Season Tournament.(Check out details at http://www.aracnet.com/~eastwind/nwss/ ). We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.. -Les RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.
[RCSE] NWSS Tournament dates...
Hey Russ, You'll be a pretty lonely flier if you show up Sept 31/Oct 1 for the NWSS Tournament. The actual Tournament date is Sept 78, with practice on the 6th. Of course, you will be assured of a win that way... :-) -Les RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] NWSS Tournament dates...
Hi Les, Oops...I was looking at the line above on the schedulethe North Idaho Championships. Thanks for the correction...and...thanks for your great (as usual) word picture regarding the F3J Worlds. Russ - Original Message - From: Les Grammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Russ Young [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: [RCSE] NWSS Tournament dates... Hey Russ, You'll be a pretty lonely flier if you show up Sept 31/Oct 1 for the NWSS Tournament. The actual Tournament date is Sept 78, with practice on the 6th. Of course, you will be assured of a win that way... :-) -Les RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] X-models 2Meter Blade For Sale
I'm listing this for a buddy. It's only been flown a few times and is in excellent shape. All radio gear was bought new for the install and comes with- Hitec Super slim rx, JR 600mah 6.0v pack, 6-hs85mg, wiring harness, and is ready to fly. $430+shipping or can pick up in Northern California. Email me for photos. Jared RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Artemis LT FS $850 w/servos
I have a RTF Artemis LT for sale with 4 JR 341 servos and 2 351 servos, and 1000 mah battery pack (new). This is a nice plane. I've just lost interest in F3J size models. I'm going to concentrate on electric, slope, and RES thermal in that order. I'm going to Soar Utah and would prefer to just deliver it to the buyer there, or at a meeting place on the way from Seattle. Otherwise I guess it'd have to be shipped UPS ( argh! ) and insure it, buyer pays actual shipping. I still have original shipping box. I'll e-mail custom, detailed pictures of any area on the plane to anyone seriously interested, along with detailed commments. I had minor cracking mid-body at the wing saddle after I slope soared it one day, never crashed. I reinforced it internally and repainted it. I'm not selling a piece of junk here. This is a nice plane. $850, all you have to do is drop a receiver in it, program it, and go flying. It is yellow w/ red tips, bottom of wing, and nose. I'm looking for a quick sale. Fred Guilfoyle Everett, WA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Just a Flying Contest
GPS could be used to do total energy, as it has both ground speed and altitude. (I know wind contribution to airspeed is lost) The real danger to this format is that any quest for maximum altitude will result in pilots flying to altitudes that are unsafe. Unsafe, because they are too far away. Unsafe because you are high enough to interfere with regular full size air traffic. Unsafe because one would want to maximize the dive back down speed, high speed missiles loosing their wings and impacting randomly around the pits would be very bad. With GPS one could add some additional tasks to make the event more challenging. Limit the boundary that you can fly in. Make it altitude gain from the 1st minute of flight, this would eliminate the whole zoom launch, gorilla tow motor problem. Add some precision. Pilots put in bids, I can gain 5Kft in 10 minutes, Hitting within 5% of your bid is worth something, this would add the skill of predicting the performance given the conditions before flying. Lots of possibilities... Paul At 01:01 PM 8/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: Interesting discussion. Although some type of electronic measurement of in flight performance might become a contest of the future I'm not so sure that problems with existing formats can or should be solved that way. If the tight scoring in F3J is a problems perhaps FAI should simply impose a wing span limit on the planes. I submit that this would be relatively simple to implement and leaves all the other elements of F3J intact. If the wing span were limited to, say, 2 meters the flying skill required to max the rounds would certainly be increased and spread the scores accordingly. A 2.5 meter limit would probably do as well. Just another thought. Rick At 09:40 AM 8/12/02 -0700, tony estep wrote: --- James V. Bacus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a flying contest... I think about this quite a bit. When electronic loggers and telemetry become readily affordable, (which we are on the threshold of now), maybe there could be a format that emphasized flying alone with each contestant having a logging device onboard. I'll bet that some form of Jim's idea becomes the contest of the future. For the price of a winch/retriever, a club can buy a few ALTis or LoLos. Maybe soon there'll be a micro-GPS unit (I have a Garmin Vista, which is cool, but it's not practical for this use). That would open up even more possibilities. Anyway, it's obvious that the present F3J format, for example, will have to be changed. Planes are on the towline for 5 seconds, they max whatever time is required, and then get 95 or 100 landing points. The field is bunched so that the 5th place flyer has 99.7% of the winner's score. The WC may well be decided by a slow or quick punch of a timer's button. Fiddling with target times, relative importance of landings, and launch mechanisms won't change the fundamental issue. Adding speed, as Daryl slyly suggests, would turn F3J into F3B. Jim's suggestion is, in my mind, the one that could promise to spread out the field, clearly identifying superior flying. So what's the task? A pure calculation of cumulative altitude gained creates a need for energy compensation, which complicates matters quite a bit. How about this: a 10-minute task, with points for duration and additional points for the maximum altitude gained during any 180 seconds during the flight. Altitude gained over any 3-minute window would be less subject to fiddling. If you found strong lift, you could dive, zoom back up, then circle and climb. Sure, an uncompensated vario would credit you with the zoom. But only the first one would count, since your gain would be from the bottom of that dive to the window's end 3 minutes later. And there would be lots of tactical decision-making involved in such a task. Think about the many dilemmas that would face the pilot -- it's quite interesting! Anyway, we need good new ideas for a contest format. Cool techno gimmicks are present everywhere in this sport -- why have our championships determined by a thumb-operated stop watch, and a ruler? __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Just a Flying Contest
At 12:44 PM 8/12/2002, Paul Breed wrote: The real danger to this format is that any quest for maximum altitude will result in pilots flying to altitudes that are unsafe. Unsafe, because they are too far away. Unsafe because you are high enough to interfere with regular full size air traffic. Unsafe because one would want to maximize the dive back down speed, high speed missiles loosing their wings and impacting randomly around the pits would be very bad. Really, we are not breaking any new ground here. These things are common occurrences in sailplane contests. Not that we are being unsafe, but we already fly to the limits of our vision, and people burn off big altitude with dives all the time. We just need to have the same common sense we always practice at contests. With GPS one could add some additional tasks to make the event more challenging. Limit the boundary that you can fly in. This would require electronic telemetry feedback to the pilot and I don't want to go there in a contest environment. Make it altitude gain from the 1st minute of flight, this would eliminate the whole zoom launch, gorilla tow motor problem. I would like to include launch height as it's a part of every sailplane contest. There is more skill to launching high than standing on the pedal. Just like a normal TD contest in dead or light air, it might be the only difference between winning the round. Add some precision. Pilots put in bids, I can gain 5Kft in 10 minutes, Hitting within 5% of your bid is worth something, this would add the skill of predicting the performance given the conditions before flying. Interesting, but it would slow down the contest as pilots would have to report it somehow before the round just starts. Lots of possibilities... Agreed! 8-) Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Incidence meter
Thanks to all who gave input. I ended up ordering the Great Planes laser model. Happy flying! Best, David Shanks Salt Lake City, Utah - Original Message - From: Bill Johns [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Incidence meter At 09:37 AM 8/6/2002 -0400, Andrew E. Mileski wrote: David Shanks wrote: I'm looking to buy an incidence meter and would like some input on what type/brand is the most effective and easy to use. Thanks, David Shanks Salt Lake City, Utah The Great Planes one is accurate to a 0.25 of a degree http://www.greatplanes.com/accys/gpmr4020.html I've got one. Well made, not terribly expensive, easy to use. I am satisfied with it and would recommend it. It sure helps to get that initial decalage set before the first flight/toss. Will not work with V-Tail planes. Cheers, Bill -- The one good thing about repeating your mistakes is that you know when to cringe. Bill Johns Pullman, WA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Just a Flying Contest
In a message dated Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:40:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- James V. Bacus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a flying contest... I think about this quite a bit. When electronic loggers and telemetry become readily affordable, (which we are on the threshold of now), maybe there could be a format that emphasized flying alone with each contestant having a logging device onboard. I'll bet that some form of Jim's idea becomes the contest of the future. For the price of a winch/retriever, a club can buy a few ALTis or LoLos. Maybe soon there'll be a micro-GPS unit (I have a Garmin Vista, which is cool, but it's not practical for this use). That would open up even more possibilities. Anyway, it's obvious that the present F3J format, for example, will have to be changed. Planes are on the towline for 5 seconds, they max whatever time is required, and then get 95 or 100 landing points. The field is bunched so that the 5th place flyer has 99.7% of the winner's score. The WC may well be decided by a slow or quick punch of a timer's button. Fiddling with target times, relative importance of landings, and launch mechanisms won't change the fundamental issue. Adding speed, as Daryl slyly suggests, would turn F3J into F3B. Jim's suggestion is, in my mind, the one that could promise to spread out the field, clearly identifying superior flying. Let's probe the muddy bottom of this crystal clear vision. Who is the superior pilot? The guy laying down tickling the bottoms of the clouds for 10 minutes, or the guy dancing on the treetops for 10 minutes? So what's the task? A pure calculation of cumulative altitude gained creates a need for energy compensation, which complicates matters quite a bit. How about this: a 10-minute task, with points for duration and additional points for the maximum altitude gained during any 180 seconds during the flight. How about this, additional points for the least altitude gained for a max flight? Altitude gained over any 3-minute window would be less subject to fiddling. If you found strong lift, you could dive, zoom back up, then circle and climb. Sure, an uncompensated vario would credit you with the zoom. But only the first one would count, since your gain would be from the bottom of that dive to the window's end 3 minutes later. And there would be lots of tactical decision-making involved in such a task. Think about the many dilemmas that would face the pilot -- it's quite interesting! Anyway, we need good new ideas for a contest format. Cool techno gimmicks are present everywhere in this sport -- why have our championships determined by a thumb-operated stop watch, and a ruler? Don't mind me, I'm a little giddy from qualifying for F3B (actually, not a bad contest format, though a little labor intensive, and a fair measure of piloting skills to boot, with plenty of opportunities to spread your score) with my first 4 flights on Saturday. I had to relaunch in distance... Bill Wingstedt RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Another WC picture
I saw an Icon at a recent club contest get its nose stuck in hard and fast (and I mean 'cringe-like-you've-been-kicked-in-the-pins' hard) from about 2 feet up repeatedly with no apparent damage. Tom - Original Message - From: James V. Bacus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Another WC picture At 10:12 PM 8/11/2002, you wrote: Actually, that's doubtful. One should try to land by closing flaps as we push over for the hunski. This photo emulates this. From the looks of the photo - don't want to speculate too much here, I wasn't there, I was just guessing that he didn't even go dirty and poked it over just before the horn. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Just a Flying Contest
At 07:59 PM 8/12/2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's probe the muddy bottom of this crystal clear vision. Who is the superior pilot? The guy laying down tickling the bottoms of the clouds for 10 minutes, or the guy dancing on the treetops for 10 minutes? I guess in a duration contest the score is the same, although one pilot had to work a heck of a lot less. I guess that is a reason we need a landing task to settle that question? 8-)) In a accumulated altitude contest the guy tickling the clouds obviously found the big air and worked it for altitude, which will then allow him to range and reacquire, so he is going to be rewarded more. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
