Re: [RCSE] Spread Spectrum Differences

[Kevin O'Dell]

I guess my first question is you are a EE student and not an amateur  
radio operator?


At any rate

802.11b, depending on the data rate, is probably direct sequence  
spread spectrum..a good explanation of the differences can be  
found in the ARRL Handbook for Radio Communicationsalmost any  
version in the past few years will have it.


Kevin O'Dell N0IRW

On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Peter Klemperer wrote:


Hi,

I'm an electrical engineering student and I'm wondering what the  
real technical difference is between the Futaba and Spektrum  
systems.  Anyone out there that knows the specifics or can point to  
a resource?


From what I gather from the threads, the Futaba system uses some  
sort of continuous frequency hopping but the JR only hops some of  
the time? What would trigger a hop (perhaps a detection of  
increased error rates)?


OFF TOPIC:  For a project during undergrad we were frustrated with  
looking for a ground frequency RC system to satisfy the rules of a  
design competition so instead we just dropped a small laptop with  
an ad-hoc 802.11b NIC into the vehicle and used that for our radio  
control.  Would this qualify as an continuously-hopping spread  
spectrum 2.4 GHz radio system (of course we only needed 20 meters  
of range)?


Cheers,
Peter
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send  
"subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe  
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.   
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are  
generally NOT in text format


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, ..... Thanks :-)

[Craig Allen]

Ha ha Ha :- Your right! As it was a brand new product when I bought it 
:-))) But then I would only have Woman as a hobby Hm :-)

David Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   If you bought a transmitter one 
year earlier you would  have gotten the Futaba 8ua you would not be flying 
because you would not be  able to program it.
- Original Message - 
   From:Craig Allen 
   To: soaring@airage.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:45PM
   Subject: [RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, .Thanks :-)
   

I just want to thank everyonefor the very thoughtful and informative post.

I was expecting a lot offlames :-) hehe

Just a little background... I left Soaring in 1979after moving to LA to 
work in the Film Industry. 

I took my trustyKraft 4ch transmitter and my Super Esprit, White Trash and 
Todi to Pearcecollage in the Valley and watched some guys ( Probably Joe, 
and a few other ofU hot shots" Launching their home made Carbon rockets to 
the moon... I asked "Hay were can you buy one of those gliders" They all 
laughed at me and said "You can't, you have to make them" .. Oh shit :-(

I went home thatday and put my planes in the closet never to fly again 
Oh ya... My carsengine froze up on the way home to Hollywood too.. So all 
in all it was a verybad day.

In 1999 I was back in Sac town searching the web and somehowfound DLG's.  
WOW I was hooked... More bang for your buck !!! U bet ya...Now I had to buy 
a new radio.. I went to the local hobby shop and bought aAirtronics Stylus 
Radio Could I program by myself ??  Hell No... Thenafter some time I 
traded that for a brand new JR 10x... Could I program it???Hell No I 
still have it if anyone want to make me an offer? Never usedonce in 4 
years..

Then I went and looked at a Futaba 9c... Within 5 minI could program it. It 
was so so simple, just like my Apple 2 and my veryfirst Mackintosh. I think 
you will notice a lot of newcomer to the hobby choseFutaba for this reason 
as well.

So I have been flying Futaba eversince Maybe I'm missing something that 
I don't know about.. But time aftertime I see people out at the local field 
with Radio issues, Programing issues,and it's never been a Futaba. So what 
ever I might be missing, I don't miss:-)))

As far as Spread Spectrum systems. From purely  anengineering point of 
view, the Futaba system is by far more reliable.. Surethe JR system might 
work just fine. Although we have already heard reports ofproblems with 
satellite receivers... But true Spread Spectrum is the only wayto go and I 
would not buy any 2.4 system that doesn't have it

Justmy two cents :-)

Craig

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, ..... Thanks :-)

[David Jensen]

If you bought a transmitter one year earlier you would have gotten the Futaba 
8ua you would not be flying because you would not be able to program it.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Craig Allen 
  To: soaring@airage.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:45 PM
  Subject: [RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, . Thanks :-)


  I just want to thank everyone for the very thoughtful and informative post.

  I was expecting a lot of flames :-) hehe

  Just a little background... I left Soaring in 1979 after moving to LA to work 
in the Film Industry. 

  I took my trusty Kraft 4ch transmitter and my Super Esprit, White Trash and 
Todi to Pearce collage in the Valley and watched some guys ( Probably Joe, and 
a few other of U hot shots" Launching their home made Carbon rockets to the 
moon... I asked " Hay were can you buy one of those gliders" They all laughed 
at me and said " You can't, you have to make them" .. Oh shit :-(

  I went home that day and put my planes in the closet never to fly again 
Oh ya... My cars engine froze up on the way home to Hollywood too.. So all in 
all it was a very bad day.

  In 1999 I was back in Sac town searching the web and somehow found DLG's.  
WOW I was hooked... More bang for your buck !!! U bet ya... Now I had to buy a 
new radio.. I went to the local hobby shop and bought a Airtronics Stylus 
Radio Could I program by myself ??  Hell No... Then after some time I 
traded that for a brand new JR 10x... Could I program it??? Hell No I still 
have it if anyone want to make me an offer? Never used once in 4 years..

  Then I went and looked at a Futaba 9c... Within 5 min I could program it. It 
was so so simple, just like my Apple 2 and my very first Mackintosh. I think 
you will notice a lot of newcomer to the hobby chose Futaba for this reason as 
well.

  So I have been flying Futaba ever since Maybe I'm missing something that 
I don't know about.. But time after time I see people out at the local field 
with Radio issues, Programing issues, and it's never been a Futaba. So what 
ever I might be missing, I don't miss :-)))

  As far as Spread Spectrum systems. From purely  an engineering point of view, 
the Futaba system is by far more reliable.. Sure the JR system might work just 
fine. Although we have already heard reports of problems with satellite 
receivers... But true Spread Spectrum is the only way to go and I would not buy 
any 2.4 system that doesn't have it

  Just my two cents :-)

  Craig

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, ..... Thanks :-)

[Kevin O'Dell]

On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:07 PM, Kevin O'Dell wrote:



As far as Spread Spectrum systems. From purely  an engineering  
point of view, the Futaba system is by far more reliable.. Sure  
the JR system might work just fine. Although we have already heard  
reports of problems with satellite receivers... But true Spread  
Spectrum is the only way to go and I would not buy any 2.4 system  
that doesn't have it


JR's Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum is true spread spectrum, as is  
frequency hopping that Futaba uses.the only reports I have seen  
are problems that can't be traced to the radio..in a very  
hostile RF environment (some major metro areas) Frequency Hopping  
Spread Spectrum (FHSS) can have latency issues..you won't loose  
any packets because the data is error correcting but, you might  
have a delay in the data packet getting there...this will slow  
the response time of the system, but not break itThe DSSS  
system can have an issue with signal fading depending on the number  
of and orientation of antennas in the aircraft.as well as the  
construction of the aircraft..all carbon birds might not  
present a great environment..but this also can happen in FHSS  
systems...under most circumstances, both systems provide a  
solid, interference free link.  At this point, most SS applications  
outside the RC world have dropped the FHSS and gone with the  
DSSS...in IEEE 802.11 both FHSS and DSSS were standardized for  
1 and 2 Mbit/s data rates.with 802.11b and beyond FHSS was left  
behind and DSSS was standardized for 5.5 Mbit/s and 11 Mbit/s data  
rates..so if the data rates increase, they may have to shift to  
DSSS.


Kevin O'Dell N0IRW

[RCSE] Re: Futaba 9C / JR9303

[David Register]

I have both (both are heli versions). Bought the JR on the way home from 
Polecat in June after getting a lot of good advice on 'up-grading'. Both 
are programmed for discus and 6 servo open class planes as well as a few 
electrics. Discus, in particular, requires some unique setups. The 9C 
Super has recently gone in for service and works great (again). It had 
lots of stick time (~ 2000 hrs) and needed a tune-up and a few parts 
swapped. The JR has about 300hrs on it and has been extensively 
programmed and tweaked. Both provide out-of-sight range when the 
receiver is properly installed.


Bottom line - I have only found a few things that one transmitter can do 
that the other can't. And there are work-arounds for them if you really 
want to do it. There may be an arcane mix out there that is unique but 
for discus and open class use (contest and sport flying), both systems 
are pretty analogous.


Of the two, I find the Futaba easier to program but that's from long 
familiarity (~30 years flying Futaba). JR programming is a bit more 
intuitive and more switches can be assigned. However, you better assign 
them before you begin the program set-up or the effort may be wasted. 
Some of the mixes are easier to set up in the JR. For instance, I wanted 
rudder coupling only in 'Thermal' mode and assigned that to the 3 
position flight mode switch. Also in 'Launch' mode, I wanted to 
de-activate flaps and also assigned that function to the 3 position 
switch. For the 9C I have those assigned to separate switches. I suspect 
the newer variants of the Super will allow assigning to the 3 position 
switch.


In both I have landing flaps on the left slider (not on the left stick). 
That was easier to set up on the Futaba. The timer on the Futaba is 
easier to set and use. The multi-point mixes are easier on the JR. The 
trim-in-mode option is better in the Futaba. The flaperon trim is better 
in the JR.


Etc., etc.

At this point I'm leaning towards the JR for discus and the Futaba for 
open class and electric. Will probably keep the JR on 72 (synth) and get 
the 2.4 module for the Futaba. Both systems (72 and SS) appear to be 
fully functional for all flight modes I use.


The only things I wish each would do that they don't - recognize both 
positive and negative shift. Also that damn reverse polarity charge jack 
on the JR - re-wire that puppy as soon as you can.


Overall the JR may be a bit more flexible for discus programming but I 
can't see a major difference for open and/or electric. There's a lot of 
stuff I don't do so I'm sure various proponents of either system will 
disagree with this post.


- Dave R
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder

[jcarlton3]

Thanks everyone for the info on plane locators. Great resource we have here, 
RCSE!

Jim
 Ed Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Here is an article on the Eastern Soaring League web site about Lost plane
> locators.  Some also serve as battery monitors.  I use several of them.
> http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=237
> 
> I prefer the Sky King and the Walston units that are discussed
> 
> Best regards,
> Ed Anderson
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] 2.4 G Futaba v JR, ..... Thanks :-)

[Craig Allen]

I just want to thank everyone for the very thoughtful and informative post.

I was expecting a lot of flames :-) hehe

Just a little background... I left Soaring in 1979 after moving to LA to work 
in the Film Industry. 

I took my trusty Kraft 4ch transmitter and my Super Esprit, White Trash and 
Todi to Pearce collage in the Valley and watched some guys ( Probably Joe, and 
a few other of U hot shots" Launching their home made Carbon rockets to the 
moon... I asked " Hay were can you buy one of those gliders" They all laughed 
at me and said " You can't, you have to make them" .. Oh shit :-(

I went home that day and put my planes in the closet never to fly again Oh 
ya... My cars engine froze up on the way home to Hollywood too.. So all in all 
it was a very bad day.

In 1999 I was back in Sac town searching the web and somehow found DLG's.  WOW 
I was hooked... More bang for your buck !!! U bet ya... Now I had to buy a new 
radio.. I went to the local hobby shop and bought a Airtronics Stylus Radio 
Could I program by myself ??  Hell No... Then after some time I traded that for 
a brand new JR 10x... Could I program it??? Hell No I still have it if 
anyone want to make me an offer? Never used once in 4 years..

Then I went and looked at a Futaba 9c... Within 5 min I could program it. It 
was so so simple, just like my Apple 2 and my very first Mackintosh. I think 
you will notice a lot of newcomer to the hobby chose Futaba for this reason as 
well.

So I have been flying Futaba ever since Maybe I'm missing something that I 
don't know about.. But time after time I see people out at the local field with 
Radio issues, Programing issues, and it's never been a Futaba. So what ever I 
might be missing, I don't miss :-)))

As far as Spread Spectrum systems. From purely  an engineering point of view, 
the Futaba system is by far more reliable.. Sure the JR system might work just 
fine. Although we have already heard reports of problems with satellite 
receivers... But true Spread Spectrum is the only way to go and I would not buy 
any 2.4 system that doesn't have it

Just my two cents :-)

Craig

[RCSE] FOR SALE Multiplex Cockpit Radio

[Joe Rodriguez]

BLOWING OUT THE 72Mhz Stuff  This is a cute little radio

Selling for $85 includes shipping CONUS and a great deal

 if you snooze on this one!!!  you will loose 

Radio in excellent condition comes with manual and special charge plug to fit 
Sirius charger

JR/Airtronics shift

smokinjoe


Usage: Air 
Channels: 7 
Modulation: FM 
Frequency: 72MHz 
Computerized: Yes 
General Specs: 
- Trainer Mode: Both 
- Mode Select: Yes
- 9 Models
- Model Copy
   
Controls and Trim: 
- DigitalTrim
- Trim Reset
- Trim Memory
- 7 Channel Servo Reverse
- 1 Slide Controls
   
Special Functions: 
- 15 Mixes
- Limited Dual Rates
- Limited Exponential
   
Display Warning: 
- LCD Display
- Timer
   
Applications: 
- Electric Helicopters
- Sport
- Standard Airplane
   
  Acrobatic Functions 
- Aileron Differential
- Aileron to Rudder Mixing
- Air Brake Control
- Elevon Function
- Flap to Elevator
- Flapperon Function
- V-Tail Function
   
Helicopter Functions 
- Hover Throttle
- Idle Up
- Offsets
- Pitch Trim
- Swash Select
- Swash Throttle Mix
   
 


Joe Rodriguez
Surf City Automotive Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
714-322-4926

[RCSE] For Sale

[Dudley Dufort]

RnR 914, with new Scott Meader - Eagle fuse.  Gear included.  Ready for 
fly. $750


Respond for pictures and more info.

Dudley
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

[RCSE] Re: Winch Battery???

[DACeller]

All such batteries need to 'vent' when being charged. Keep that in mind.
I've been using a Resolute brand deep cycle, a regular lead/acid 12V
battery.  It's now Four years old.  I bought two of them at the time,
using one on my boat for electrics and the other for winch purposes and
alternate between them sometimes so they both get used.  I haven't had
ANY trouble and paid $60ea. I live in a cool climate 44 degree N
latitude and use it on a McCan winch.

specs:
Group size 31DP
CA @32 degrees: 800
CCA @ 0 degrees: 650


-- 
DACeller

DACeller's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=66404
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781025

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] Re: DLGs = Bang for the Buck, NO WAY; Benchmarks- Get Real.

[schrederman]

OK...

First Houston Hawk cost $130.00... retired at 250 flight hours in 1221
flights. Second Hawk was $112.00... 10 hours and sold for a larger sum
than I'll disclose. Third Hawk was $120.00... add $55.00 for a newly
aquired fuselage, $26.00 for Monokote, and $8.00 for a new 7075T6
joiner... being rebuilt after 267.5 flight hours and 1331 flights...
All at a profit of over, well... if I told you that, you'd know how
much I made selling the second one...

Bang for the buck? Got 'er beat!

Jack Womack


-- 
schrederman

schrederman's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=13218
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780798

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] Re: FOR SALE Airtronics RD8000 Radio

[blpalmer76]

What all is included? I am very interested in it.

Joe Rodriguez Wrote: 
> Guy's I'm blowing out the Airtronics 72Mhz gear as I am on 2.4... Ok I
> know this is not a LANDMARK radio (-: but wow did I start something or
> what.. but I am in a giving mood
> 
> this is a great radio for electrics 3D and power I am updating the
> price for the holidays RD8000 $70 :eek:  plus $10. shipping to CONUS
> PayPal please Excellent condition channel 36
> 
> Smokinjoe


-- 
blpalmer76

blpalmer76's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=179882
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=779220

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] Re: FOR SALE Airtronics RD8000 Radio

[blpalmer76]

If you still have it I will take it. Do you also have the crystal? Can I
see some pictures of it?


-- 
blpalmer76

blpalmer76's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=179882
View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=779220

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] 2.4 GHz

[bgtwining]

I tried to respond to Jack Iafret's posting but got bounced by the system so
I am posting this separately. I agree with Jack that the Profi has very
powerful programming. However, I traded mine for 2 - 12 Ch Evos because, for
me, the programming is even easier, although with a few less options (most
of which I would never use), and because the Evo has a much better
geometry/weight for hand launch. I have been flying the Evo for several
years in TD, F5J, F5B, hand launch and a couple of electric sport planes and
helicopters. XPS offers a great, easy to install 2.4 GHz module for the Evo
(and Profi for that matter). I have been using the XPS 2.4 Ghz system in a
F5J Graphite with a good bit of carbon in the fuselage. It seems to work
great so far. XPS now has 8 and 10 Ch full range receivers. They are coming
out with end pin versions of these as well as top and end pin 12 Ch
receivers. For all the gliders the end pin receiver will be a very positive
addition. I won't comment on the schedule for these new receivers because
that is one of the more frustrating things about dealing with XPS. The 2.4
GHz components from XPS that I do have though work great and I get to keep
the Evo programming. I will wait a little longer for end pin receivers
before I switch to a 9303.

 

Bruce T.


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Darwin N. Barrie]

The 14 is in a completely different league than the 4000. Off hand several 
features, sythesized, shift selectable. memory card, computer upgradeable, 
channel expanders, etc Sailplane capability are probably similar except the 
14 is 2048 capable and will soon have the 2.4 module and receivers out.

The biggest difference is the ease of programming. I had a 4000 and finally 
gave up. Plus I didn't like the tray deal. You can pretty much program a 
competition sailplane without the manual. There are only a couple of small 
items that fall into the "head scratching" category and they aren't bad. 

For those that finally make the step into the 12 or 14 and realize the power 
and ease of this system there is no looking back. 

Hell, even Bubba got one a dem.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Iafret 
  To: Bill's Email 
  Cc: Soaring@airage.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???


  The Profi 4000 has all of the 14MZ functions that count (sorry- no audio) 
"plus' several more that most sailplane guys will never use but are there for 
the really technical applications.

  Not very popular because of the style but it is fantastic if you use a tray 
or strap. Programming is really logical and quite easy once you understand it 
and is is a lot less expensive than the 14. 

  Too bad Hitec will not support them much longer but we all hope they will 
come out with a radio as complete to replace it someday.

  My two have been bullet proof for about six years.

  Jack


  On Dec 4, 2007 5:53 PM, Bill's Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ed Anderson wrote:
> Craig,
>
> There are several factors why the JR 9303 2.4 is getting more press than 
the
> Futaba.
>
> 1) This is a soaring list serve and the 9303 has received much greater 
> acceptance as a 6+ servo sailplane radio than any of the Futaba 
transmitters.

True enough. Unfortunately not enough of the 14MZ radios are being used
in soaring (big in aerobatics and helis) to realize what an incredible 
radio it is for soaring. Assign any function to any stick, switch,
slider, etc. Including mixes, trims, whatever. Whatever you can think of
you can do. Same holds true for the less expensive 12Z and 12FG.

Up to 9 flight conditions per model. Each condition allows you to change
EVERYTHING except where the functions are assigned and the channel.
Anything else can be changed. Throws, mixes, etc.

The Futaba 12 to 14 series radios are truly powerful and flexible 
radios. Honestly I cannot imagine having to mess with anything less now.
Kind of like once I got a microwave I could not imagine how I got along
without one.!!


> 2) Futaba entered the 2.4 GHz market with a very limited function 
transmitter 
> which was not of much interest to the 6+ servo sailplane market. They 
have also
> come to market much later and much more slowly than Spektrum/JR, so 
Futaba has a
> tiny installed base compared to the others.  Many Futaba users, like 
myself, 
> have purchased Spektrum modules for our Futaba Radios.  That is the same
> technology that JR uses.

True for airplanes. Futaba has been in the car/boat world for sometime
and has pretty god market penetration there. 


> 3) Spektrum/JR, XPS and Futaba all use Spread Spectrum of one form or 
another,
> but only Futaba uses continuous frequency hopping.  I will let the 
wizards argue
> which is better, but they all seem to work, so to most users, the 
difference 
> does not matter much.  This is like PPM vs. PCM, both are 72 MHz FM.  
Which is
> better vs. which is most popular. They both work.

In a sense I agree. It can become a very academic argument. Personally, 
I like the continuous hopping scheme over the other types of implementation.



> 4) There is a lot more hands on experience in the user community with
> Spektrum/JR than with XPS or Futaba.

SS I agree. But radios in general not so much. At many large contest
Airtronics still rules the roost with Futaba and JR splitting the
remainder. Plus it can be very regional as well.



> 5) Spektrum/JR offers the widest range of receiver choices.  For many 
people, 
> this is very important.

In SS this is true. However, given how tiny these things are I can't see
that as an issue. At least for me. Even the 14 channel RX is smaller
than most 4 channel 72 RXs!!




RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format 




  -- 
  Jack Iafret
  Home and Hobbies 

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Darwin N. Barrie]

The 14 is in a completely different league than the 4000. Off hand several 
features, sythesized, shift selectable. memory card, computer upgradeable, 
channel expanders, etc Sailplane capability are probably similar except the 
14 is 2048 capable and will soon have the 2.4 module and receivers out.

The biggest difference is the ease of programming. I had a 4000 and finally 
gave up. Plus I didn't like the tray deal. You can pretty much program a 
competition sailplane without the manual. There are only a couple of small 
items that fall into the "head scratching" category and they aren't bad. 

For those that finally make the step into the 12 or 14 and realize the power 
and ease of this system there is no looking back. 

Hell, even Bubba got one a dem.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Iafret 
  To: Bill's Email 
  Cc: Soaring@airage.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???


  The Profi 4000 has all of the 14MZ functions that count (sorry- no audio) 
"plus' several more that most sailplane guys will never use but are there for 
the really technical applications.

  Not very popular because of the style but it is fantastic if you use a tray 
or strap. Programming is really logical and quite easy once you understand it 
and is is a lot less expensive than the 14. 

  Too bad Hitec will not support them much longer but we all hope they will 
come out with a radio as complete to replace it someday.

  My two have been bullet proof for about six years.

  Jack


  On Dec 4, 2007 5:53 PM, Bill's Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ed Anderson wrote:
> Craig,
>
> There are several factors why the JR 9303 2.4 is getting more press than 
the
> Futaba.
>
> 1) This is a soaring list serve and the 9303 has received much greater 
> acceptance as a 6+ servo sailplane radio than any of the Futaba 
transmitters.

True enough. Unfortunately not enough of the 14MZ radios are being used
in soaring (big in aerobatics and helis) to realize what an incredible 
radio it is for soaring. Assign any function to any stick, switch,
slider, etc. Including mixes, trims, whatever. Whatever you can think of
you can do. Same holds true for the less expensive 12Z and 12FG.

Up to 9 flight conditions per model. Each condition allows you to change
EVERYTHING except where the functions are assigned and the channel.
Anything else can be changed. Throws, mixes, etc.

The Futaba 12 to 14 series radios are truly powerful and flexible 
radios. Honestly I cannot imagine having to mess with anything less now.
Kind of like once I got a microwave I could not imagine how I got along
without one.!!


> 2) Futaba entered the 2.4 GHz market with a very limited function 
transmitter 
> which was not of much interest to the 6+ servo sailplane market. They 
have also
> come to market much later and much more slowly than Spektrum/JR, so 
Futaba has a
> tiny installed base compared to the others.  Many Futaba users, like 
myself, 
> have purchased Spektrum modules for our Futaba Radios.  That is the same
> technology that JR uses.

True for airplanes. Futaba has been in the car/boat world for sometime
and has pretty god market penetration there. 


> 3) Spektrum/JR, XPS and Futaba all use Spread Spectrum of one form or 
another,
> but only Futaba uses continuous frequency hopping.  I will let the 
wizards argue
> which is better, but they all seem to work, so to most users, the 
difference 
> does not matter much.  This is like PPM vs. PCM, both are 72 MHz FM.  
Which is
> better vs. which is most popular. They both work.

In a sense I agree. It can become a very academic argument. Personally, 
I like the continuous hopping scheme over the other types of implementation.



> 4) There is a lot more hands on experience in the user community with
> Spektrum/JR than with XPS or Futaba.

SS I agree. But radios in general not so much. At many large contest
Airtronics still rules the roost with Futaba and JR splitting the
remainder. Plus it can be very regional as well.



> 5) Spektrum/JR offers the widest range of receiver choices.  For many 
people, 
> this is very important.

In SS this is true. However, given how tiny these things are I can't see
that as an issue. At least for me. Even the 14 channel RX is smaller
than most 4 channel 72 RXs!!




RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format 




  -- 
  Jack Iafret
  Home and Hobbies 

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[B. Chan]

- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



I've never had any Futaba transmitter above the 9Csuper so maybe 
other can tell me what those high end Futaba transmitters can do 
that a 9Csuper can't.


Phil



May be a little more progemas but you get more little  holes  in the 
receiver that you can plug more servos into!


I got the 12FG for a scale gliders that has more function(channels) 
than the 9C can give me.


Brian
--
Brian Chan,
An Electric Airplane Junkie @ San Mateo.Ca.USA
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Jon Stone]

Phil Barnes wrote:
 
I've never had any Futaba transmitter above the 9Csuper so maybe other
can tell me what those high end Futaba transmitters can do that a
9Csuper can't. 


These rcgroups threads might be useful.  I have not read them.

Differences
in 9C and 9303?
JR
9303 vs Futaba 9c 


Jon




RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

[RCSE] re: Laser 2M rudder-fin size

[Frank Jarratt]

The full size drawing of the built-up (movable) portion of the Rudder 
for the NSP 2M Laser measures 9 11/16" tall at the hinge line, 2 3/16" 
wide at top, and 3" wide at the bottom.


Frank Jarratt
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Jack Iafret]

The Profi 4000 has all of the 14MZ functions that count (sorry- no audio)
"plus' several more that most sailplane guys will never use but are there
for the really technical applications.

Not very popular because of the style but it is fantastic if you use a tray
or strap. Programming is really logical and quite easy once you understand
it and is is a lot less expensive than the 14.

Too bad Hitec will not support them much longer but we all hope they will
come out with a radio as complete to replace it someday.

My two have been bullet proof for about six years.

Jack

On Dec 4, 2007 5:53 PM, Bill's Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ed Anderson wrote:
> > Craig,
> >
> > There are several factors why the JR 9303 2.4 is getting more press than
> the
> > Futaba.
> >
> > 1) This is a soaring list serve and the 9303 has received much greater
> > acceptance as a 6+ servo sailplane radio than any of the Futaba
> transmitters.
>
> True enough. Unfortunately not enough of the 14MZ radios are being used
> in soaring (big in aerobatics and helis) to realize what an incredible
> radio it is for soaring. Assign any function to any stick, switch,
> slider, etc. Including mixes, trims, whatever. Whatever you can think of
> you can do. Same holds true for the less expensive 12Z and 12FG.
>
> Up to 9 flight conditions per model. Each condition allows you to change
> EVERYTHING except where the functions are assigned and the channel.
> Anything else can be changed. Throws, mixes, etc.
>
> The Futaba 12 to 14 series radios are truly powerful and flexible
> radios. Honestly I cannot imagine having to mess with anything less now.
> Kind of like once I got a microwave I could not imagine how I got along
> without one.!!
>
>
> > 2) Futaba entered the 2.4 GHz market with a very limited function
> transmitter
> > which was not of much interest to the 6+ servo sailplane market. They
> have also
> > come to market much later and much more slowly than Spektrum/JR, so
> Futaba has a
> > tiny installed base compared to the others.  Many Futaba users, like
> myself,
> > have purchased Spektrum modules for our Futaba Radios.  That is the same
> > technology that JR uses.
>
> True for airplanes. Futaba has been in the car/boat world for sometime
> and has pretty god market penetration there.
>
>
> > 3) Spektrum/JR, XPS and Futaba all use Spread Spectrum of one form or
> another,
> > but only Futaba uses continuous frequency hopping.  I will let the
> wizards argue
> > which is better, but they all seem to work, so to most users, the
> difference
> > does not matter much.  This is like PPM vs. PCM, both are 72 MHz FM.
>  Which is
> > better vs. which is most popular. They both work.
>
> In a sense I agree. It can become a very academic argument. Personally,
> I like the continuous hopping scheme over the other types of
> implementation.
>
>
>
> > 4) There is a lot more hands on experience in the user community with
> > Spektrum/JR than with XPS or Futaba.
>
> SS I agree. But radios in general not so much. At many large contest
> Airtronics still rules the roost with Futaba and JR splitting the
> remainder. Plus it can be very regional as well.
>
>
>
> > 5) Spektrum/JR offers the widest range of receiver choices.  For many
> people,
> > this is very important.
>
> In SS this is true. However, given how tiny these things are I can't see
> that as an issue. At least for me. Even the 14 channel RX is smaller
> than most 4 channel 72 RXs!!
>
>
>
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe"
> and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note
> that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format
> with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and
> AOL are generally NOT in text format
>



-- 
Jack Iafret
Home and Hobbies

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Phil Barnes]

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Now if Futaba would just provide the superior sailplane programming the
JR 9303 has I would consider switching.


As a long time Futaba user but also a guy who keeps looking at the JR9303 
and wondering; Should  I switch? I'd be interested in hearing what you can 
do with the 9303 that you can't do with a Futaba 9Csuper transmitter. This 
is a serious question, not an attempt to start an argument.


I think Futaba has gotten a reputation for limited programming ability due 
to the earlier versions of their transmitters which weren't as capable as 
the 9Csuper and also because hardly anybody knew how to use the capability 
that did exist.


A list of 9303 capabilities that you think can't be done on a Futaba 9Csuper 
would be interesting. You may convince me that I need a 9303 and I may 
convince you that a Futaba 9Csuper is more capable than you think.


I've never had any Futaba transmitter above the 9Csuper so maybe other can 
tell me what those high end Futaba transmitters can do that a 9Csuper can't.


Phil 



RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Bill's Email]

Ed Anderson wrote:

Craig,

There are several factors why the JR 9303 2.4 is getting more press than the
Futaba.

1) This is a soaring list serve and the 9303 has received much greater
acceptance as a 6+ servo sailplane radio than any of the Futaba transmitters.


True enough. Unfortunately not enough of the 14MZ radios are being used 
in soaring (big in aerobatics and helis) to realize what an incredible 
radio it is for soaring. Assign any function to any stick, switch, 
slider, etc. Including mixes, trims, whatever. Whatever you can think of 
you can do. Same holds true for the less expensive 12Z and 12FG.


Up to 9 flight conditions per model. Each condition allows you to change 
EVERYTHING except where the functions are assigned and the channel. 
Anything else can be changed. Throws, mixes, etc.


The Futaba 12 to 14 series radios are truly powerful and flexible 
radios. Honestly I cannot imagine having to mess with anything less now. 
Kind of like once I got a microwave I could not imagine how I got along 
without one.!!




2) Futaba entered the 2.4 GHz market with a very limited function transmitter
which was not of much interest to the 6+ servo sailplane market. They have also
come to market much later and much more slowly than Spektrum/JR, so Futaba has a
tiny installed base compared to the others.  Many Futaba users, like myself,
have purchased Spektrum modules for our Futaba Radios.  That is the same
technology that JR uses.


True for airplanes. Futaba has been in the car/boat world for sometime 
and has pretty god market penetration there.




3) Spektrum/JR, XPS and Futaba all use Spread Spectrum of one form or another,
but only Futaba uses continuous frequency hopping.  I will let the wizards argue
which is better, but they all seem to work, so to most users, the difference
does not matter much.  This is like PPM vs. PCM, both are 72 MHz FM.  Which is
better vs. which is most popular. They both work.


In a sense I agree. It can become a very academic argument. Personally, 
I like the continuous hopping scheme over the other types of implementation.





4) There is a lot more hands on experience in the user community with
Spektrum/JR than with XPS or Futaba.


SS I agree. But radios in general not so much. At many large contest 
Airtronics still rules the roost with Futaba and JR splitting the 
remainder. Plus it can be very regional as well.





5) Spektrum/JR offers the widest range of receiver choices.  For many people,
this is very important.


In SS this is true. However, given how tiny these things are I can't see 
that as an issue. At least for me. Even the 14 channel RX is smaller 
than most 4 channel 72 RXs!!





RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

[RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Ed Anderson]

Craig,

There are several factors why the JR 9303 2.4 is getting more press than the
Futaba.

1) This is a soaring list serve and the 9303 has received much greater
acceptance as a 6+ servo sailplane radio than any of the Futaba transmitters.


2) Futaba entered the 2.4 GHz market with a very limited function transmitter
which was not of much interest to the 6+ servo sailplane market. They have also
come to market much later and much more slowly than Spektrum/JR, so Futaba has a
tiny installed base compared to the others.  Many Futaba users, like myself,
have purchased Spektrum modules for our Futaba Radios.  That is the same
technology that JR uses.


3) Spektrum/JR, XPS and Futaba all use Spread Spectrum of one form or another,
but only Futaba uses continuous frequency hopping.  I will let the wizards argue
which is better, but they all seem to work, so to most users, the difference
does not matter much.  This is like PPM vs. PCM, both are 72 MHz FM.  Which is
better vs. which is most popular. They both work.

4) There is a lot more hands on experience in the user community with
Spektrum/JR than with XPS or Futaba.

5) Spektrum/JR offers the widest range of receiver choices.  For many people,
this is very important.

Here are a few other links that may be of interest:

2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - in the Radios forum of RC Groups.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715589&goto=newpost
2.4 Satisfaction Poll
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6240077


Ed Anderson

Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 12:46:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I'm just curious as to why all the talk is about the JR 2.4 system?

>From everything I have read, the Futaba 2.4 is the only one to use true spread
spectrum and is a much better system that the JR...

Like I said "I'm just curios."   So flame away :-)

Craig



RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[david . jensen]

Now if Futaba would just provide the superior sailplane programming the JR 9303 
has I would consider switching.  JR was the first to bring SS to the market and 
Futaba has some catch up to do.


 -- Original message --
From: Craig Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'm just curious as to why all the talk is about the JR 2.4 system?  
> 
> From everything I have read, the Futaba 2.4 is the only one to use true 
> spread 
> spectrum and is a much better system that the JR...
> 
> Like I said "I'm just curios."   So flame away :-)
> 
> Craig
> 
> 


--- Begin Message ---
I'm just curious as to why all the talk is about the JR 2.4 system?  From everything I have read, the Futaba 2.4 is the only one to use true spread spectrum and is a much better system that the JR...Like I said "I'm just curios."   So flame away :-)Craig--- End Message ---

[RCSE] 2.4 Gig JR v Futaba ???

[Craig Allen]

I'm just curious as to why all the talk is about the JR 2.4 system?  

>From everything I have read, the Futaba 2.4 is the only one to use true spread 
>spectrum and is a much better system that the JR...

Like I said "I'm just curios."   So flame away :-)

Craig

Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder - short range

[TJB]

I made some of these and they are okay.  I could hear it down in the woods 
(still hard to track) up to about 1/10 th of a mile.   
http://www.rc-cam.com/lma.htm

The Communications Specialits inc ones work well.
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
soaring@airage.com 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder - short range


  In a message dated 12/4/2007 5:18:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:
If you are serious about the plane finder:
These are the least expensive type 
http://toys.search.ebay.com/lost_Radio-Control_W0QQsacatZ2562


  I have a couple of these and they are quite hard to hear more than a few 
steps away when placed in a typical TD fuse.  I think the electronic DF 
equipment would be better. 

  Don Richmond
  San Diego, CA (Virginia Beach, VA until January)
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.hilaunch.com





--
  Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money 
wasters of 2007.


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 12/3/2007 
10:56 PM

[RCSE] Fw: 2.4/ Horizon/good guy alert

[Brian Smith]

Sorry for re-posting.. This really makes me wonder.. It did not come up 
because I'm a friend of Gordy's?? Brian
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RCSE" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: 2.4/ Horizon/good guy alert


>I have bought 4 DX7s and one X9303 all on 2.4.. It is hard to beat just 
>dealing with Horizon folks to begin with.. I have had nothing but wonderful 
>experiences dealing with them on every thing from Zenoah motors, to 
>covering, to 2.4 radios..  My good guy alert of the month.. (grin)  Brian 
>Smith
> PS Gordy is a friend of mine..
> 


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] SOLD ** Holiday pricing!! Airtronics STYLUS Modules**

[Joe Rodriguez]

SOLD SOLD SOLD... sombody got a great deal...Merry Christmas  HO HO ho  
(-:

sj
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Rodriguez 
  To: RCSE (E-mail) 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:58 AM
  Subject: [RCSE] ** Holiday pricing!! Airtronics STYLUS Modules**



  Here is a deal of the year in RCSE Land..It cant get better than this.

  BLOWING OUT THE LAST OF MY AIRTRONICS GEAR!!!


  For all you Guy's on the Stylus here is a way to change frequency on a 
crowded day at your flying site. 

  Ok !! Santa's coming and I have some new toy's in the bag so let's cut to the 
bone $25 shipped that's a deal (-:  they are discontinued at hobby people and 
unobtainable new, THAT'S $25 YOUR COST for almost new 

  For sale is two Airtronics STYLUS transmitter Modules 93072  the modules are 
almost new condition in original box.

  this is the only way to change frequency 72 mhz on a Stylus... 

  1 on freq 36
  1 on freq 57

  $25. each shipped to CONUS  paypal preferred 



  Smokinjoe

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Doug McLaren]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 09:29:02AM -0800, Joe Rodriguez wrote:

|Toddsmodels web site says $630 for the x9303 2.4

Indeed it does.  To be more precise, it says `Minimum Advertised
Price* $629.99' for this particular model (without servos.)

However, when you add it to your cart, it says

   X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2   $529.99   $529.99

and it's quite obvious that this is one of those cases where there is
a MAP, and the site appears to be `jumping through hoops' to be able
to sell the item at a discount without technically violating the MAP.

It also appears to be in stock, if somebody wants to buy it.

(No, I don't have anything to do with Todd's Models.  I'm not even a
customer, though I would buy a x9303 from them if my bank account
looked better.)

|  The best price I'm aware of is at
|  [4]http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM
|  9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the Horzion price for
|  that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

-- 
Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Vote anarchist!
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[johnfruge]

It still seems to be a form of price fixing. I see many CO's doing it in the RC 
world. Castle, TP, I am sure there are others!

Just my thoughts. 

John Fruge

-- Original message -- 
From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> MAP pricing is "Minimum Advertised Pricing". It's usually just an 
> agreement between the distributor/mfg'er and the seller to not 
> *advertise* anything below that price. They can still sell it to you at 
> whatever they'd like. 
> 
> Jim Monaco wrote: 
> > Hmm - what is MAP priced? Isn't that price fixing? I thought that was 
> > illegal? 
> > Jim 
> > 
> > Jim Monaco 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: Tom Copp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:17 AM 
> > To: 'Doug McLaren'; 'Steve Gibson' 
> > Cc: 'RCSoaring Exchange' 
> > Subject: RE: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ? 
> > 
> > Hello, 
> > JR products are MAP priced so no one can advertise below a set cost. 
> > 
> > Big Lift! 
> > 
> > Tom Copp 
> > Composite Specialties JR Dealer! 
> > www.f3x.com 
> > 949-645-7032 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:02 AM 
> > To: Steve Gibson 
> > Cc: RCSoaring Exchange 
> > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ? 
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote: 
> > 
> > | Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct 
> > | order pricing ? 
> > 
> > The best price I'm aware of is at http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a 
> > X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530. I believe the 
> > Horzion price for that is $630. Looks like shipping is $11. 
> > 
> > The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups 
> > has been very positive. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and 
> "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that 
> subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME 
> turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are 
> generally NOT in text format 

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Ben Wilson]

MAP pricing is "Minimum Advertised Pricing".  It's usually just an 
agreement between the distributor/mfg'er and the seller to not 
*advertise* anything below that price.  They can still sell it to you at 
whatever they'd like. 


Jim Monaco wrote:

Hmm - what is MAP priced?  Isn't that price fixing?  I thought that was
illegal?
Jim

Jim Monaco


-Original Message-
From: Tom Copp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:17 AM

To: 'Doug McLaren'; 'Steve Gibson'
Cc: 'RCSoaring Exchange'
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

Hello,
JR products are MAP priced so no one can advertise below a set cost.

Big Lift!

Tom Copp
Composite Specialties JR Dealer!
www.f3x.com
949-645-7032


-Original Message-
From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:02 AM

To: Steve Gibson
Cc: RCSoaring Exchange
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote:

|Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct
|order pricing ?

The best price I'm aware of is at http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a
X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the
Horzion price for that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups
has been very positive.

  


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format

[RCSE] ** Holiday pricing!! Airtronics STYLUS Modules**

[Joe Rodriguez]

Here is a deal of the year in RCSE Land..It cant get better than this.

BLOWING OUT THE LAST OF MY AIRTRONICS GEAR!!!


For all you Guy's on the Stylus here is a way to change frequency on a crowded 
day at your flying site. 

Ok !! Santa's coming and I have some new toy's in the bag so let's cut to the 
bone $25 shipped that's a deal (-:  they are discontinued at hobby people and 
unobtainable new, THAT'S $25 YOUR COST for almost new 

For sale is two Airtronics STYLUS transmitter Modules 93072  the modules are 
almost new condition in original box.

this is the only way to change frequency 72 mhz on a Stylus... 

1 on freq 36
1 on freq 57

$25. each shipped to CONUS  paypal preferred 



Smokinjoe

RE: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Jim Monaco]

Hmm - what is MAP priced?  Isn't that price fixing?  I thought that was
illegal?
Jim

Jim Monaco


-Original Message-
From: Tom Copp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:17 AM
To: 'Doug McLaren'; 'Steve Gibson'
Cc: 'RCSoaring Exchange'
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

Hello,
JR products are MAP priced so no one can advertise below a set cost.

Big Lift!

Tom Copp
Composite Specialties JR Dealer!
www.f3x.com
949-645-7032


-Original Message-
From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:02 AM
To: Steve Gibson
Cc: RCSoaring Exchange
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote:

|Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct
|order pricing ?

The best price I'm aware of is at http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a
X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the
Horzion price for that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups
has been very positive.

-- 
Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]





RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL
are generally NOT in text format


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Joe Rodriguez]

Toddsmodels web site says $630 for the x9303 2.4
  - Original Message - 
  From: Doug McLaren 
  To: Steve Gibson 
  Cc: RCSoaring Exchange 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?


  On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote:

  |Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct
  |order pricing ?

  The best price I'm aware of is at 
http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a
  X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the
  Horzion price for that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

  The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups
  has been very positive.

  -- 
  Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED].  Please 
note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format 
with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL 
are generally NOT in text format

RE: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Tom Copp]

Hello,
JR products are MAP priced so no one can advertise below a set cost.

Big Lift!

Tom Copp
Composite Specialties JR Dealer!
www.f3x.com
949-645-7032


-Original Message-
From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:02 AM
To: Steve Gibson
Cc: RCSoaring Exchange
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote:

|Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct
|order pricing ?

The best price I'm aware of is at http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a
X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the
Horzion price for that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups
has been very positive.

-- 
Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]





RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Joe Rodriguez]

This Radio is backordered due to limited supply and high demand I do not think 
anybody is doing heavy discounting.

One just sold on RC groups and sold in 30 sec.

sj
  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Gibson 
  To: RCSoaring Exchange 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:22 AM
  Subject: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?


  Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct order 
pricing ?
  Thanks,
  S Gibson

Re: [RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Doug McLaren]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:22:28AM -0600, Steve Gibson wrote:

|Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct
|order pricing ?

The best price I'm aware of is at http://www.toddsmodels.com/, where a
X9303 2.4 A/S Tx w/DSM 9 Ch Rx No SXS Mode 2 is $530.  I believe the
Horzion price for that is $630.  Looks like shipping is $11.

The general sentiment that I've seen about Todd's Models on rcgroups
has been very positive.

-- 
Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

RE: [RCSE] "What if they had an LSF election and no one reported the results?"

[TG Bean]

What kind of beer Gordy? Thats all I need to make the picture complete. Ya dog. 
:)


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:48:01 -0500Subject: [RCSE] "What if 
they had an LSF election and no one reported the results?"To: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

While I am sitting on the 6 floor of a resort in Mexico Beach Florida, my room 
door open to the sea breeze, a cool beer and some ribs laid out on the balcony 
table, I'm thinking, "Something is missing!"
Then it came to me, what the heck is the results of the LSF elections?
 
Gordy


Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money 
wasters of 2007.
_
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007

[RCSE] Discounts on JR 2.4 systems ?

[Steve Gibson]

Does anybody discount the 2.4 JR 9303 systems below Horizons direct order 
pricing ?
Thanks,
S Gibson

[RCSE] Slimer power pods

[Brian Smith]

Trying to sell a couple items for my grandson. I have a factory built power 
pod with a nice COX TD 051 on it.. It took my grandsons GL OOS with no 
problems.  I'm told these COX engines are no longer produced and are in 
demand.. I just don't know about that issue.. I'm ask $50 for that one 
shipped.
 I also have a very nice wood, built from Sig plans, power pod with a COX 
049 Black Widow on it.. Both the pod and motor are excellent.  Asking $40 
shipped for that one.  I would take $75 for both shipped in the CONUS if 
anyone is interested..
 Hope I'm not thrown off the list for mentioning slimers on a sailplane.. 
(grin) Please contact me off the list if your interested.. Brian Smith 
Tullahoma TN.. 931 393 4876 


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] Soprano????

[Canardin]

I have a few new Sopranos available.

Mark miller

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Anyone cleaning out their closet and want to sell their  
> Soprano? .. Reece
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!



  

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. 
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 

Re: [RCSE] Fw: 3m gnome kit - Kit (ID: 346351)

[ZULIM SUZAN]

There's a heavy price to pay if you ever say anything nice about or to Gordy.   

Cliff Lindgren.still lurking in the shadows.

- Original Message 
From: Brian Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: RCSE 
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 5:58:34 AM
Subject: [RCSE] Fw: 3m gnome kit - Kit (ID: 346351)

Sorry if this comes up twice.  Seems my posts have been slowed or blocked 
ever since I said nice things about Gordy.. ;o)Brian
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RCSE" 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: 3m gnome kit - Kit (ID: 346351)


>
> http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=346351
> 


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

[RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder

[Ed Anderson]

Here is an article on the Eastern Soaring League web site about Lost plane
locators.  Some also serve as battery monitors.  I use several of them.
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=237

I prefer the Sky King and the Walston units that are discussed

Best regards,
Ed Anderson
Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder

> BTW, who can recommend a good lost plane finder? I know there are a few on
> the market..any testimonials?
>
> Jim


RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and 
unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  
Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in 
text format

Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S Plane finder

[TJB]

If you are serious about the plane finder:
These are the least expensive type 
http://toys.search.ebay.com/lost_Radio-Control_W0QQsacatZ2562


This is the system I use: 
http://www.com-spec.com/Amateur_Radio/index.html


Then there's the very expensive Walston 
http://www.texastimers.com/helpful_hints/walston/walston_retrieval.htm
You can use a simple HT radio with a yagi if you don't want to pay the high 
price for the receiver.


Tom

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dana Flemming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "soaring" 


Cc: 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Your Genie LT/S



 Dana Flemming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

My question is, how well does it float?
  ;-)
  Dana

Floats well in light air, strong winds and even... water! Needs a little 
more rudder authority in the water though...:)  I guess it wanted to see 
what all the fuss was about a DUCK...
BTW, who can recommend a good lost plane finder? I know there are a few on 
the market..any testimonials?


Jim

Since I let the Genie out of the bottle, I wonder what three wishes I'll 
be granted? My wishes?...

For all a Happy Holiday season...
That new world beater, sailplane toy under the tree for all of my soaring 
pals
and good health, wealth and happiness for the new year...(all I need 
is a vacation!)
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" 
and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note 
that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format 
with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and 
AOL are generally NOT in text format



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 
12/3/2007 10:56 PM





RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News.  Send "subscribe" and 
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format