Re: [RCSE] Anyone in ABQ?

[aero22]

I am here through about Aug. 17th-ish...
But, I will be at the Melrose test range for about 10 days.
I will be leaving next Monday and probably be back for the weekend, then
back to Melrose, then back to ABQ.
I am definitely here this weekend

MM
  - Original Message - 
  From: Carlos Reyes 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE] Anyone in ABQ?


  Hi. I live in Albuquerque. There is a very active model soaring club here:
  http://www.soarabq.org/


  Our monthly meeting will be next Tuesday night. What dates will you be here?


  Carlos Reyes
  RCadvisor.com
  Because Models Can Always Fly Better






  - Original Message 
  From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  To: Soaring 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:09:59 PM
  Subject: [RCSE] Anyone in ABQ?


  I'm in Albuqurque for awhile working out of Kirtland,
  Anyone up for some fun flying, or beeer and jazz?

  Mark Mech
  Aerofoam 
  360-927-2546

Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Mark Miller]

Mike,

The Sidewinder is close but I think $300 for the kit may still be a bit much 
for the young folks when you consider the all up cost will be about $425 if you 
build it yourself. 

Louisville's little Lee has progressed very nicely flying a bunch of woodies 
early on and getting the most out of them. If there was a similar kind of plane 
for handlaunch it may bring the really young crowd in earlier. I doubt Lee 
could have gone for a Sidewinder a year or so ago. The issue to me is that the 
first step in handlaunch has a tall cost of entry.

My son Brendan who is 21 now bought a used XP-4 from Jeff Carr last year. It 
just about tapped out his life savings even though it was a fair price for a 
used XP-4. He had a tip strike a few months ago and delaminated the skin. It is 
fixable but time is short right now.

The Gambler is more like what I was thinking. It has decent performance and is 
cheap to get flying. Now if only there were contests based on this kind of 
plane. Just think of the new talent it could attract and when they get to the 
point of going for a big bagged plane they will have all the skills they 
learned in the more beginner class.

Mark Miller


- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mark Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: soaring@airage.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:17:56 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.


Hey Mark,
 
Does the Sidewinder from Polecata fill the bill, or is that still a little 
beyond what you were thinking for target price?  Just curious.
 
Mike


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
From: Mark Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 11:51 am
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], TG Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: soaring@airage.com

I also agree with Ben in that Handlaunch is breathing new life into soaring. We 
have seen it here in St. Louis. While there may not be many new members 
produced from it yet it sure has rekindled excitement from many of the current 
members. I, like Chris, go back to the beginnings of HLG. I built a Sunbird 
when Dave's article came out and have been with it ever since. I designed some 
old style HLG javelin type models and loved them. I have not participated much 
since DLG came about mostly because I had other things I wanted to do but I'm 
restarting again. I like the amount you get to fly, the simplicity of it all 
and the contest format makes you think more than I have to in TD. "Do I launch 
again and risk that 2 minute flight or do I walk away and see where the chips 
fall?" for example.

What I would like to see, and I do not know how realistic it is, would be a 
beginners class of handlaunch. Something where you do not need a $600 DLG 
machine or a $400 used beater where you spend more time chasing wing de 
laminations than flying. Something where you can learn flying and thermaling 
skills and move your way into the big leagues. I do not know if it is wood 
built ups on a mini high start or not. While that format is fun it is really 
just all up, last down over and over. Maybe a 1 meter DLG class? I'm not bright 
enough to figure it all out but I feel there needs to be something. 

Mark Miller
Missing the NATS Greatly



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[RCSE] Anyone in ABQ?

[aero22]

I'm in Albuqurque for awhile working out of Kirtland,
Anyone up for some fun flying, or beeer and jazz?

Mark Mech
Aerofoam 
360-927-2546

Re: [RCSE] Handlaunch

[aero22]

Ok, Uncle! I give up, I want to play too.
What handlaunch should I go out and get now?

Mark Mech
www.aerofoam.com


- Original Message - 
From: Bill Swingle
To: Soaring
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:11 PM
Subject: [RCSE] Handlaunch


Yes, hand launch is fantastic.

When I was healthy I learned a tremendous amount from just a silly little 
plane called the Bob. A genius HL design that cost under a hundred bucks. 
Great plane. Great times. Even learned the Joe Wurts' third vector method 
when I was hand launching.

Bill Swingle
Janesville, CA 


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[RCSE] "Our Boy Lee....or Sometimes Known a Mini DP :-)"

[GordySoar]

Hey all you Lee supporters!
 
If you aren't at the Nats now, then I'll give you and update on Lee's  
progress so far:
 
He has been high Junior in every event so far
Tomorrow is Unlimited and he'll be flying the LJ Supra on 2.4 DSM2  
JRsame as his other ships this week.
 
We'll see if he can follow up his MidSouth win with a Nats Win in  Juniors.

Today was 20+ mph winds and Lee flew Ed Wilson's old Aquila  
Grande...finishing about mid pack over all but top puppy in Junior comp.
 
What a kid!
 
Gordy
Hendersonville NC today



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[RCSE] Handlaunch

[Bill Swingle]

Yes, hand launch is fantastic.

When I was healthy I learned a tremendous amount from just a silly little plane 
called the Bob. A genius HL design that cost under a hundred bucks. Great 
plane. Great times. Even learned the Joe Wurts' third vector method when I was 
hand launching.

Bill Swingle
Janesville, CA

[RCSE] Looking for a Sharon 3.7 Pro X-tail... anyone want to sell their birds?

[Flying High]

Looking for another back up plane, does anyone have a Sharon 3.7 Pro X-tail for 
sale, looking for either NIB or RTF.  Please let me know what you have and 
pictures would make me pull the trigger faster on a deal with YOU!!!

Thanks
Edgar
"The Soaring Junkie"



  
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Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[tony estep]

- Original Message 

From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...let me pitch you my argument for...better attention paid to handlaunch by 
soaring in general.

Well, Ben, after hearing about how all you young bucks were having fun with 
these HL planes, I got me one of 'em and went to try 'er out. But I couldn't 
figger the dagnab thing out. First of all, there wasn't no towhook or nothin'. 
Then I noticed this little black popsicle stick jabbed through the end of one 
of the wings, and I thought maybe that was where I was spozed to hook on the 
winch line, but I couldn't get the ring to stay on. Daggondest thing I ever 
saw. And I got to thinking, even if I could, wouldn't the winch just yank 'er 
along sideways? So I give the whole thing up as a bad job and went to fly 'er 
on the slope, which she ain't too bad if the wind ain't a-blowin too strong. 
Maybe next time I see you, you can give me some pointers about what I'm doin' 
wrong.

[RCSE] "Actually Ben IS a Jerk!"

[GordySoar]

Ben used to be a good guy, but then he started hanging around with his  
wifethat lead to him doing stuff like running and swimming and biking...so  
he's seldom seen at the field anymore.
 
But to be fair his personality crash started way before that!
 
At first he was a regular guy...he'd show up with an unlimited ship or a  
self built Bubble Dancer and he'd spend the day soaring together.  
 
Then Bruce Davidson woo'd him to the DLG side  sure he excelled at  it, 
but he was really good at flying real sailplanes, you know unlimited and  
RESbut Bruce is like a Svengali!...all that twisting, spinning and  
throwing 
quickly had Ben hypnotized...and well you already know the  restbrainwashed 
into a full blown DLG guy.
 
I knew it was a matter of time before he'd leave Chris' name out of a  report 
on German DLG play.
 
A sad day realized :-).
Gordy
Hendersonville NC today..you?




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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[mike]

Hey Mark,
 
Does the Sidewinder from Polecata fill the bill, or is that still a little beyond what you were thinking for target price?  Just curious.
 
Mike
 Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.From: Mark Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 11:51 amTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], TG Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: soaring@airage.comI also agree with Ben in that Handlaunch is breathing new life into soaring. We have seen it here in St. Louis. While there may not be many new members produced from it yet it sure has rekindled excitement from many of the current members. I, like Chris, go back to the beginnings of HLG. I built a Sunbird when Dave's article came out and have been with it ever since. I designed some old style HLG javelin type models and loved them. I have not participated much since DLG came about mostly because I had other things I wanted to do but I'm restarting again. I like the amount you get to fly, the simplicity of it all and the contest format makes you think more than I have to in TD. "Do I launch again and risk that 2 minute flight or do I walk away and see where the chips fall?" for example.What I would like to see, and I do not know how realistic it is, would be a beginners class of handlaunch. Something where you do not need a $600 DLG machine or a $400 used beater where you spend more time chasing wing de laminations than flying. Something where you can learn flying and thermaling skills and move your way into the big leagues. I do not know if it is wood built ups on a mini high start or not. While that format is fun it is really just all up, last down over and over. Maybe a 1 meter DLG class? I'm not bright enough to figure it all out but I feel there needs to be something. Mark MillerMissing the NATS GreatlyRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
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[RCSE] What Time Is It in Muncie?

[Tom Nagel]

Gents:

   I gotta drive over to Muncie on Saturday morning.

What time zone is Muncie using this year?  Eastern Standard Daylight 
Savings, or Central Daylight Savings or Local Option Crapshoot Indiana Time 
Zone Roulette Time?


   I gotta adjust my sundial before leaving home!

Tom H. Nagel
Judicium Procurator Recuperatio 


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Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Mark Miller]

I also agree with Ben in that Handlaunch is breathing new life into soaring. We 
have seen it here in St. Louis. While there may not be many new members 
produced from it yet it sure has rekindled excitement from many of the current 
members. I, like Chris, go back to the beginnings of HLG. I built a Sunbird 
when Dave's article came out and have been with it ever since. I designed some 
old style HLG javelin type models and loved them. I have not participated much 
since DLG came about mostly because I had other things I wanted to do but I'm 
restarting again. I like the amount you get to fly, the simplicity of it all 
and the contest format makes you think more than I have to in TD. "Do I launch 
again and risk that 2 minute flight or do I walk away and see where the chips 
fall?" for example.

What I would like to see, and I do not know how realistic it is, would be a 
beginners class of handlaunch. Something where you do not need a $600 DLG 
machine or a $400 used beater where you spend more time chasing wing de 
laminations than flying. Something where you can learn flying and thermaling 
skills and move your way into the big leagues. I do not know if it is wood 
built ups on a mini high start or not. While that format is fun it is really 
just all up, last down over and over. Maybe a 1 meter DLG class? I'm not bright 
enough to figure it all out but I feel there needs to be something. 

Mark Miller
Missing the NATS Greatly


  
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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[David Register]

Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about. I just got an email from 
AARPHOLY C**P...isnt that the sign of the
coming apocalypse?
Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from here 
on out.
Uhhh, you're not prostrate for a prostate exam. That's the other Doc 
working with the long TV tube.

Been there, done that. Leave a book on the clothes hamper in the outhouse.
You get decent discounts with your AARP card if you remember where you 
put it.


2 day DLG at the Nats! Great idea!
I appreciate all the dialog on this topic. Already put 11,000 miles on 
the truck this year driving around the US for discus events. If there's 
a 2-day at the Nats, it definitely goes on my ToDo list. Let's see, 
north to St. Louis and turn right. Drive on 'til the first star on the 
left. Ooops. Nope, that's Polecat.
Of course the real humiliation about being a bottom-feeder like myself 
is showing up at Poway and having Gordy beat you at your own game.
Thanks Ben for the write-ups. Thanks Chris and the Carrs and all the 
guys who represented the US at the German F3K. Some of the them have 
been going on their own nickel for several years. Please keep up the 
great effort.
Now the challenge is making the NATS the 3rd major US national contest 
for discus. How do we collectively help make it happen?


- Dave R


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Re: [RCSE] Apology to Ben

[JMiller]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ben,

I have to apologize for my rapid and quite offensive response to your
post.

I believe, as you do, that F3K/DLG is one of the most rapidly expanding
forms of RC soaring, much like what park flyers and EPP did for the RC
arena.  The recognition of F3K and DLG is increasing as larger TD sites
become unavailable in some localities.

Chris,
  Quite big of you for the apology to Ben, thanks.  But I have another 
bone for you, your statement about the back of the pack group is wrong. 
 I personally believe that if you are not of the top 10 in ANY contest, 
your score/place is not note worthy to anyone other than a close friend 
and yourself, it is just "background noise", to the masses of soaring. 
If you are an LSF member (other than yourself, as you are noted for that 
already-#8) you do collect points for contests as I think in the 
Canadian system, you do also.
  We all have our feelings, I guess yours was just hurt, and spoke out 
without thinking.  And you may do that on RCSE, many do.  Right or wrong.

  Good luck in all your tries in the future.

  Jerry Miller
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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[chris]

Oh Yes, please send me an applications.

LOL
Chris

>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> From: TG Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, July 30, 2008 8:05 am
> To: Mark Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
> Bravo Mark,
>  
> Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about.
> I just got an email from AARPHOLY CRAP...isnt that the sign of the coming 
> apocalypse?
> Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from 
> here on out.
>  
> So whose going to Visalia this year?
>  
> Tom 
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:31:53 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: 
> > Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.> To: soaring@airage.com> > > > 
> > "Ben,> > I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. 
> > Perhaps> Jeff and Bret are just as insulted."> > I went to the NATS last 
> > year. Came in 33rd. in Unlimited. No one mentioned my name as attending. 
> > Should I be insulted? I'm not, as I do not need the pat on the back from my 
> > fellow man to be happy. I am plenty happy in my own mind with 33rd. Usually 
> > I am down about 100 more places.> > Bravo to everyone who took the time, 
> > effort and expense to attend in the German F3K event.> > Mark> > > > 
> > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and 
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> > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT 
> > in text format
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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Sheldon Smith]

Yeah.BUT.You also get to eat off the Senior side of the menu!!!

 

-Sheldon-

 

From: TG Bean [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:06 AM
To: Mark Miller; soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

 

Bravo Mark,
 
Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about.
I just got an email from AARPHOLY CRAP...isnt that the sign of the
coming apocalypse?
Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from
here on out.
 
So whose going to Visalia this year?
 
Tom 

> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:31:53 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> To: soaring@airage.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Ben,
> 
> I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps
> Jeff and Bret are just as insulted."
> 
> I went to the NATS last year. Came in 33rd. in Unlimited. No one mentioned
my name as attending. Should I be insulted? I'm not, as I do not need the
pat on the back from my fellow man to be happy. I am plenty happy in my own
mind with 33rd. Usually I am down about 100 more places.
> 
> Bravo to everyone who took the time, effort and expense to attend in the
German F3K event.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
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[RCSE] Apology to Ben

[chris]

Ben,

I have to apologize for my rapid and quite offensive response to your
post.

I believe, as you do, that F3K/DLG is one of the most rapidly expanding
forms of RC soaring, much like what park flyers and EPP did for the RC
arena.  The recognition of F3K and DLG is increasing as larger TD sites
become unavailable in some localities.

I was taken back about comments about the German Open because there were
other US pilots there, not just the quoted names of the top US pilots.
It seems that the others get relegated to background noise.  Reporting
for the German Open is extensively done on the Handlaunch glider forum
of RCgroups, and I as well as others have  posted pictures and comments.

Peoples say "Go US Team" not know that there were three (3) US teams
since the team signups were open to anybody.  USA Team 2 had Bruce
Davidson, Mike Seid, and Adam Weston grouped together, while USA Team 3
contained the remainder of us, Jeff Carr, Bret Carr, and myself. 
Obviously our groupings were decided by us to put forth the best team
USA team 1 3rd), but indeed Team 2 (8th) faired very well, and Team 3
was not last (LOL 25th).

My goals are much like yours, to disseminate plane design information,
and I am trying to do this on RCgroups with my posts and views.

I hope we can propagate the sport of F3K /DLG because I know it will
become big, very fast.

Once again, I apologize for my response and taking the issue the wrong
way.

Thermals,

Chris Adams


>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 9:00 pm
> To: "Ben Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: soaring@airage.com, "LASS Soaring List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Ben,
> I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here.  Perhaps
> Jeff and Bret are just as insulted.
> I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for
> me to be your father and grandfather!
> Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open,
> yet you never acknowledge US!!
> I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests.  I
> flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66" HLG for it
> which parallels what we fly today.
> I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not
> having to wait for winch lines or frequency control.
> Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew.  We may not
> be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may  be, but we
> participate for each of our own reasons.  You make it sound like we are
> invisible to the rest of the group.  I think you are somewhat lost.
> I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer
> me.  Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo
> designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!!
> DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly
> independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other
> complaints from others.  I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or
> PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal.  Contests are not the
> only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying.  Some of
> us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!.
> In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of
> soaring.  TD contests will be going by the wayside.  Bruce Davidson put
> it quite plainly at the German Open to me, "why should he travel 10
> hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest", when
> he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of
> not having to just do spot landings.
> I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am
> perhaps giving up TD contest entirely.  I can do the social event at
> HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of
> DLG flying. After all What is  DLG but a subclass of TD.  Perhaps we
> should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used
> to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships!
> Personally I see DLG support  by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps
> F3J, as a world class group.
> So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us
> as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce,
> Paul, Phil and the rest.
> Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that
> realm!
> Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also.
> Thermals,
> Chris Adams
> LSF 348 Lvl V (#8)
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> > From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm
> > To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of
> > handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for
> > bet

RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[mike]

Oh, and Chris... I am so sorry I didn't mention you in my response to Bens post.  You are so great.  You deserve mention in every post about handlaunch and soaring.  I mean without you where would we be right?
 
Get over yourself.  Bens post was so right on point, and was not exclusionary.  Unless of course you only read posts to see if they are talking about you, or for some other self centered reasons.
 
Seriously, posts like yours are best left to your therapist, and not good for soaring or this exchange.
 
Of course my rant here is my own personal opinion, and perhaps I should talk to my therapist about it.
 
Mike
 Original Message Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 9:00 pmTo: "Ben Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: soaring@airage.com, "LASS Soaring List"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Ben,I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. PerhapsJeff and Bret are just as insulted.I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough forme to be your father and grandfather!Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open,yet you never acknowledge US!!I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests. Iflew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66" HLG for itwhich parallels what we fly today.I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of nothaving to wait for winch lines or frequency control.Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew. We may notbe the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may be, but weparticipate for each of our own reasons. You make it sound like we areinvisible to the rest of the group. I think you are somewhat lost.I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offerme. Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboodesigns, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!!DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to flyindependently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any othercomplaints from others. I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, orPM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal. Contests are not theonly thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying. Some ofus design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!.In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world ofsoaring. TD contests will be going by the wayside. Bruce Davidson putit quite plainly at the German Open to me, "why should he travel 10hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest", whenhe can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment ofnot having to just do spot landings.I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I amperhaps giving up TD contest entirely. I can do the social event atHLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction ofDLG flying. After all What is DLG but a subclass of TD. Perhaps weshould be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we usedto thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships!Personally I see DLG support by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhapsF3J, as a world class group.So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing usas participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce,Paul, Phil and the rest.Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in thatrealm!Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also.Thermals,Chris AdamsLSF 348 Lvl V (#8)>  Original Message > Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.> From: Ben Wilson > Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm> To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List> > So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of> handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for> better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the> product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people> involved with soaring at different levels over the past couple of years,> so here goes:> AN INTRODUCTION> I've been in soaring since 2003, and have been to the NATS the last 4> years in some capacity or another. My first love is handlaunch, but I'm> also a big fan of RES and Unlimited stuff. I also got the> international-style bug last year towing for an F3J team at the NATS.> Second, let me state that I have helped Denny Maize over the last 3> years organize his Polecat Challenge. In those years, it's gone from a> pretty well attended contest (40 pilots) to last year, which had 93> registered and paid pilots. Around 80 or so flew. (Yes, we managed to> top the IHLGF this year, but that might just be a statistical "wobble",> or it could be the Red Bull girls, pig roast or huge soaring raffle).> As I was intimately involved with the registration of the pilots and the> gathering and reporti

RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[TG Bean]

Bravo Mark,
 
Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about.
I just got an email from AARPHOLY CRAP...isnt that the sign of the coming 
apocalypse?
Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from here 
on out.
 
So whose going to Visalia this year?
 
Tom 
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:31:53 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: 
> [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.> To: soaring@airage.com> > > > "Ben,> > I 
> have never been so insulted as what you have posted here. Perhaps> Jeff and 
> Bret are just as insulted."> > I went to the NATS last year. Came in 33rd. in 
> Unlimited. No one mentioned my name as attending. Should I be insulted? I'm 
> not, as I do not need the pat on the back from my fellow man to be happy. I 
> am plenty happy in my own mind with 33rd. Usually I am down about 100 more 
> places.> > Bravo to everyone who took the time, effort and expense to attend 
> in the German F3K event.> > Mark> > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by 
> Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent 
> in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email 
> such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
_
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[mike]

Hey Ben, thanks for the passionate write up.  I, for one, whole heartedly agree with you.  Particularly about the part about HL being the best and most productive gateway, or portal to RC soaring.
 
As you know there is so much talk about how to get new people, and young people into Rc Soaring, and darn it if the answer isn't HL.  I would certainly hope that we can bring about enough influence to get 2 days of HL at the next NATS.
 
Even without beer on tap at the field, we will have a good turnout.
 
Thanks for your post, and your passion for soaring in general.
 
Cheers,
 
Mike Smith
 Original Message Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pmTo: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people involved with soaring at different levels over the past couple of years, so here goes:AN INTRODUCTIONI've been in soaring since 2003, and have been to the NATS the last 4 years in some capacity or another. My first love is handlaunch, but I'm also a big fan of RES and Unlimited stuff. I also got the international-style bug last year towing for an F3J team at the NATS.Second, let me state that I have helped Denny Maize over the last 3 years organize his Polecat Challenge. In those years, it's gone from a pretty well attended contest (40 pilots) to last year, which had 93 registered and paid pilots. Around 80 or so flew. (Yes, we managed to top the IHLGF this year, but that might just be a statistical "wobble", or it could be the Red Bull girls, pig roast or huge soaring raffle).As I was intimately involved with the registration of the pilots and the gathering and reporting of information about that contest as well as the NATS last year, I've got a somewhat unique perspective into handlaunch and soaring. I stress "handlaunch and soaring" there, because the crossover between HL and TD is pretty well delineated. There are a lot of people doing HL and more doing TD, but there is only modest intersection between the two.SOME NUMBERSAt the Polecat Challenge, out of the 80-some pilots:13 of them were "Novices", meaning that they hadn't flown a contest before.29 of them were Sportsmen.The rest were experts.The average age for handlaunch competitors skews much younger than soaring in general (this is empirical)Last year at the NATS when I did the coverage for the NATSNews, I had to hunt and peck for guys who were new to soaring or the NATS - and that was out of 100+ pilots. I think I counted maybe 5 or 6 that were new to soaring or to the NATS. Many of them were in handlaunch (I brought at least two of them with me). I'm not covering the NATS this year, but attendance is the same as last year, but with RES attendance way up, so I'm assuming things stayed the same. Someone contradict me on that if I'm wrong.I spoke with a number of the new guys at the Polecat and a large number of them had never flown sailplanes before getting into handlaunch - but they had flown some sort of R/C. Helis, electrics, some gas, etc. Handlaunch is drawing people from other R/C niches to soaring. That's a good direction for us.WHY TWO DAYS AT THE NATSWell, frankly, because when I tell handlaunch people to "come to the NATS," they all say "I would, but only if it's a two-day contest". And I swear to you I didn't put that quote in their teeth! I will lay a $5 bet that the first two-day handlaunch contest at the NATS draws at least as many pilots as 2-meter, and maybe even as many as RES. I've spoken to at least that many people - and the handlaunch community is pretty damn tight - we'll support it. Period.Now, about the recent German contest - the German Open this year (just last weekend, same as NATS HL) drew away at least a half dozen of our top handlaunch pilots FROM THEIR OWN NATIONAL COMPETITION. Oleg Golovidov, Phil Barnes, Paul Anderson and Bruce Davidson, all past IHLGF or Polecat winners, didn't go to their own NATS because there is a better contest -- in Germany. 112 pilots from all around Europe, Sweden, Norway, Ukraine, etc etc. Huge. Beer on tap *at the field*!We've now got two serious and large contests - the IHLGF and the Polecat - but we don't have a "NATS" that is worth going to, and therefore isn't considered a "National" contest by anyone in the HL community. I don't want to get into that whole "Is the NATS a fun-fly?" argument again, but I would like to make Handlaunch at the NATS worth going to...SUMMARY* Handlaunch is attracting more new pilots* Handlaunch is attracting a younger audience* Handlaunch is acting as the "gateway" into soaring in generalIf you hold it, they will come.If you bring more handlaunchers to the NATS, you are bringing more (and more young) p

Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Mark Miller]

"Ben,

I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here.  Perhaps
Jeff and Bret are just as insulted."

I went to the NATS last year. Came in 33rd. in Unlimited. No one mentioned my 
name as attending. Should I be insulted? I'm not, as I do not need the pat on 
the back from my fellow man to be happy. I am plenty happy in my own mind with 
33rd. Usually I am down about 100 more places.

Bravo to everyone who took the time, effort and expense to attend in the German 
F3K event.

Mark


  
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RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Pat McCleave]

Chris,

Dude lighten up.  The article was about DLG and what it is doing for Soairng in 
General not about specific pilots.  Sure he mentioned the top dogs in his last 
email to help make his point, but he also mentioned all you and how well each 
of you did in his earlier article on the German Open.  

See Ya,

Pat McCleave
Wichita, KS


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> Ben,
> 
> I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here.  Perhaps
> Jeff and Bret are just as insulted.
> 
> I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for
> me to be your father and grandfather!
> 
> Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open,
> yet you never acknowledge US!!
> 
> I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests.  I
> flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66" HLG for it
> which parallels what we fly today.
> 
> I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not
> having to wait for winch lines or frequency control.
> 
> Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew.  We may not
> be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may  be, but we
> participate for each of our own reasons.  You make it sound like we are
> invisible to the rest of the group.  I think you are somewhat lost.
> 
> I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer
> me.  Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo
> designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!!
> 
> DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly
> independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other
> complaints from others.  I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or
> PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal.  Contests are not the
> only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying.  Some of
> us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!.
> 
> In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of
> soaring.  TD contests will be going by the wayside.  Bruce Davidson put
> it quite plainly at the German Open to me, "why should he travel 10
> hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest", when
> he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of
> not having to just do spot landings.
> 
> I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am
> perhaps giving up TD contest entirely.  I can do the social event at
> HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of
> DLG flying. After all What is  DLG but a subclass of TD.  Perhaps we
> should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used
> to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships!
> 
> Personally I see DLG support  by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps
> F3J, as a world class group.
> 
> So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us
> as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce,
> Paul, Phil and the rest.
> 
> Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that
> realm!
> 
> Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also.
> 
> Thermals,
> 
> Chris Adams
> LSF 348 Lvl V (#8)
> 
> 
> 
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> > From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm
> > To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of
> > handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for
> > better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the
> > product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people
> > involved with soaring at different levels over the past couple of years,
> > so here goes:
> > AN INTRODUCTION
> > I've been in soaring since 2003, and have been to the NATS the last 4
> > years in some capacity or another. My first love is handlaunch, but I'm
> > also a big fan of RES and Unlimited stuff. I also got the
> > international-style bug last year towing for an F3J team at the NATS.
> > Second, let me state that I have helped Denny Maize over the last 3
> > years organize his Polecat Challenge. In those years, it's gone from a
> > pretty well attended contest (40 pilots) to last year, which had 93
> > registered and paid pilots.  Around 80 or so flew. (Yes, we managed to
> > top the IHLGF this year, but that might just be a statistical "wobble",
> > or it could be the Red Bull girls, pig roast or huge soaring raffle).
> > As I was intimately involved with the registration of the pilots and the
> > gathering and reporting of information about that contest as well as the
> > NATS last year, I've got a somewhat unique perspective into handlaunch
> > and soaring.  I stress "handlaunch and soaring" there, because the
> > crossove

[RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[Ed Anderson]

Might as well put in my two cents, which is worth the same two cents as
everyone else's two cents.  Compared to many of you, with decades of
experience, I am a relative newbie to RC flying ( 5 years ) and soaring ( 4
1/2 years ) I probably flew my first club contest 4 years ago and my first
Eastern Soaring League contest 3 years ago.

I think that Ben makes some good arguments for an expanded HLG/DLG presence
at the NATs.  As a member of a soaring club I observe that DLG soaring has
been growing fast among club members.  When I started, 5 years ago, there
were a couple of guys throwing the older design HLGs, but they were rare to
be seen on the field.   Their HLGs were more for their "off field" flying.

Today it is hard to make a visit to the field on the weekend when there are
not DLGs soaring toward the heavens.  And they are usually the same guys who
are launching winched planes.  DLG has just become an extension of their
flying enjoyment.

Our club has even changed our field layout and operational rules to make
room for the DLG crowd, a crowd that I joined last year.  I am still a "big
plane" guy, but the attraction of the convenience and the intimacy of DLGs
grows stronger.  And the lack of extra equipment is a big plus.

The Eastern Soaring League now has a separate series of DLG contests with an
ever growing number of participants.   We will have an ESL HLG contest at
our field this weekend.  We are no Polecat, with all the pageantry, but we
have 25 pilots registered.

I don't have national statistics or a world view of the DLG community, but
from within my own limited view, it would seem that the DLG community has
reached the point were a two day contest would be merited at the NATs.  I do
believe that there would be greater participation if the event were two
days.  As Ben suggests, I think it would rival some of the other categories
for participation.

Of course there is always the challenge of fitting in new events into the
schedule.  Do you extend the NATs or do you shrink some other event?  RES
participation really grew this year.  Some say it is the emergence of the
"modern" RES designs.  Others say it was due to a change in contest schedule
and sequence.  But that is for others to figure out.

BTW, I have never been to the NATs or any contest in Europe.  The Eastern
Soaring League contest series has been the limit of my "big contest"
experience.   But I am thinking I am ready for the NATs, perhaps next year,
time and finances permitting.

I think Ben made some good points.

Ed Anderson
A contest soaring newbie
>
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> > From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm
> > To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of
> > handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for
> > better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the
> > product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people
> > involved with soaring at different levels over the past couple of years,
> > so here goes:

+++ I deleted the rest for brevity  Ed )


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Re: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

[1st2fly]

What are you ranting about?  He didn't insult you!  I read his post (thank 
you for quoting it in yours) several times over, and in no way does he 
slight you or anyone else that attended the German event.  In fact, he says 
the words "AT LEAST a half dozen of our top...pilots".  By simple definition 
of the English language, that means as a minimum, and likely more, which of 
course would include YOU and the others you named.  He probably only listed 
the names he did because he knows them or knows more about them or was 
directly aware that they went to that competition because of his involvement 
in the NATS.  He wrote a very well written, well thought out post in SUPPORT 
of HLG/DLG flying.  YOU, on the other hand chose to reply in a very negative 
way and to make it worse, verbally beat your chest and exclaimed to the 
world how wonderful and cool you are, which in my 50 years of life I have 
found usually means that just the opposite is true.  The truly best very 
rarely ever talk about themselves, or even talk at all.  They just simply go 
out there and do their thing, no matter what it is, and take what enjoyment 
from the activity that they can, and if it's competition, then you can bet 
that they just as quietly probably beat the pants off the likes of you. 
Think before you spout off like you just did.

-Keith
 just another silent flyer who flies for fun now

--
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 9:00 PM
To: "Ben Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ; "LASS Soaring List" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.

Ben,

I have never been so insulted as what you have posted here.  Perhaps
Jeff and Bret are just as insulted.

I have been flying HLG longer than you are probably old, old enough for
me to be your father and grandfather!

Just so you know, there were three other US pilots at the German Open,
yet you never acknowledge US!!

I have flown HLG long before anybody ever thought about HLG contests.  I
flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest, and even designed a 66" HLG for it
which parallels what we fly today.

I fly HLG/DLG because it gives me the enjoyment and independence of not
having to wait for winch lines or frequency control.

Jeff Carr, Bret Carr and I supported our US group and flew.  We may not
be the creme of the crop that Oleg, Bruce, Paul or Phil may  be, but we
participate for each of our own reasons.  You make it sound like we are
invisible to the rest of the group.  I think you are somewhat lost.

I design and build DLGs because I enjoy the opportunity that they offer
me.  Of the US group, besides Oleg who flew his 5 year old Taboo
designs, I was the only US guy there flying My Own design!!!

DLG pilots fly DLG for one basic reason, it allows each of us to fly
independently and to not depend on waiting for winches or any other
complaints from others.  I can go out and fly in the AM, Noon hour, or
PM, and enjoy my time hunting the elusive thermal.  Contests are not the
only thing that matters in this world when it comes to flying.  Some of
us design, others fly, but in the end we fly fly fly!.

In my opinion, the AMA does not know what DLG is doing for the world of
soaring.  TD contests will be going by the wayside.  Bruce Davidson put
it quite plainly at the German Open to me, "why should he travel 10
hours, fly three or 4 flights then drive back from a TD contest", when
he can fly DLG, many rounds and many flights and have the enjoyment of
not having to just do spot landings.

I will go to more DLG contests than TD contests this year and I am
perhaps giving up TD contest entirely.  I can do the social event at
HLG/DLG contests and still get the technical and design satisfaction of
DLG flying. After all What is  DLG but a subclass of TD.  Perhaps we
should be saying that TD is really a subclass of HLG/DLG because we used
to thermal out TD ships from Hand launches when we test glided TD ships!

Personally I see DLG support  by the AMA replacing F3B and even perhaps
F3J, as a world class group.

So I think you owe Jeff, Bret and Me an apology for not recognizing us
as participants at the German Open at the same level as Oleg, Bruce,
Paul, Phil and the rest.

Don't forget, Bret did make the Junior flyoffs and did place in that
realm!

Please come back when you realize there are others who fly also.

Thermals,

Chris Adams
LSF 348 Lvl V (#8)



>  Original Message 
> Subject: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
> From: Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 7:15 pm
> To: soaring@airage.com, LASS Soaring List
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> So y'all have probably heard my whining about the lack of 2 days of
> handlaunch at the NATS, so let me pitch you my argument for it and for
> better attention paid to handlaunch by soaring in general. This is the
> product of a number of discussions I've had with a number of people
> involved with soaring at different levels