Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation
Hey, I'm a firm believer in joining the AMA. I pay my AMA dues 2 years at a time. When I made the reference to clubs, I did not mean formally sanctioned clubs. I was trying to give the poster some contest options. Of course, AMA clubs would need to ensure that everyone flying at their field is an AMA member, to the best of their ability. And yes, I am quite concerned that an accident could occur at a flying field. My hope for the folks that I have met that are yet to join the academy is that their renters or homeowners insurance would cover them. I always do my best to present the academy in a positive light and encourage them to join. I'd also feel the same concern about insurance if rather than flying gliders around the sky we were playing a game of softball. But since I fly at public parks, I'm in no position to force anyone to join anything. Ryan --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Larry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have one mistake. If you are flying at a AMA club site/field. You are required to have AMA. That is part of the charter for that site. You don't have to get a sanction to have a contest. That just protects the contest from another club having the exact same contest on the same day in the same area. You can fly on someone else property if you have permission to do so. They assume you have some kind of insurance to pay for damages that can happen. Like hitting someone, putting their eye out, smashing out a window of a house or car. Running into the power lines and taking out the power. Crashing and having the batteries pop out and short and cause a fire in the field,crops,forest,roof. I can go on about it. You know. Its a nice feeling to know that the guys your flying with, care's enough about your well being by doing something simple as getting a AMA card. Larry TaylorKF6JBG E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web http://home.earthlink.net/~cvrcsoaring/cvrc.htm CD for Visalia Fall Soaring Festival 5th and 6th Oct. 2002 New Club Web Site: www.cvrcsoaring.com - Original Message - From: rdwoebke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation When a contest director sanctions an AMA meet, he is required to assure that all participants are AMA members. Keep in mind that there is nothing stopping you from having informal or unsanctioned contests. Clubs have them all the time. There is a club in my state that has a contest each month. No entry fee, but there is also no prizes. Critical mass is starting to build in my area, and I'm hoping to have a few of these informal contests next year. Most of the new pilots that I am meeting are of a similar mind set as you when it comes to the AMA membership. I'd still like to encourage some friendly contests, however. You should contact the LSF president about finding if LSF really requires AMA membership. I would think that the LSF is an international organization, and I'd expect the international participants may not be AMA members. If AMA membership is required, I'd bet it stems from the fact that the LSF receives a lot of support from the AMA. The two organizations combine forces to hold the soaring nationals, for example. I know Jack reads this list, so I'm sure he will jump in here with a clarification. Many clubs really have to work hard to acquire a field. In many cases, this involves petitioning local government organizations or corporations. Quite similar to proposing a business case. If the question of liability arises, and it often does, the AMA insurance is a quick solution. That's why many clubs insist upon AMA membership and sanctioning contests. They are just trying to ensure their own continued existence. I admit, when I first started flying RC as a college freshman, I did not have AMA membership. I now realize it is a nominal fee towards assuring that the hobby of model airplanes will survive for years to come. The insurance thing is a nice peace of mind, but the AMA has done many things that you benefit from that you are probably not aware of, such as working with the FCC many years ago to assure that we have frequencies. Without some amount of lobbying our frequencies could easily be overtaken by cellular phones and pagers. Similarly, the AMA has other cool programs to support special interest groups and junior members. The cost of the AMA membership/nationals entry for juniors is literally only a handful of dollars. I'm happy to see my membership fee go towards these programs, even if I do not benefit directly. Aeromodeling can be an expensive hobby. For most, rather than jump in all at once they tend to purchase things a bit at a time. A better charger here, dedicated receivers for each plane, a workbench tool there, and I'd expect that somewhere along
Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation
Hmm, Here we have a case of the organizers of the status quo, the same status quo that seems to be lacking in attendance, telling me that the problem is mine, not theirs, that I must have a problem So far the responses that I have gotten, aside from the guy who thinks I am unpatriotic, indicate that I am not alone. Yes, you are right. Asher is great guy. So is Rusty. Pete too. There should be an Asher or a Pete or a Paul in every community. I'll bet if you look, wherever there is an active soaring community you will find guys like that, they are the reason for the community. But they are in the minority. There is only so much they can do. We need more like them. The question seems to be, how do we increase attendance at contests? My answer is that we need to make the contests more enjoyable such that guys will be willing to go. If something isn't working, simply repeating it over and over generally won't produce different results. The mere fact that I am speaking honestly about what I see and offering suggestions for change, and I am being told that I must be the one with the problem and that my agenda is simply to complain should be further proof of my point. Yeah that's it, kill the messenger. So, I offer and introduce into evidence, EXHIBIT B! Lee Estingoy Overland Park, KS - Original Message - From: John Derstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lee Estingoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daryl Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 7:22 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Participation Well apparently you don't seem to fit in anywhere Lee. I am sorry for that. I have not found any of what you have stated at any aerotow events.(I have been to more than a few) If your agenda is to complain then so be it. I can't help that. You tend to take away what you bring to an event. If you are not willing to bring safe equipment, and follow basic flite line safety, and courtesy procedures, then I gues you might be better off staying home. Public gatherings are not for everyone. No argument that all of model aviation is an increasingly older group, we are basically the baby boomers, with few demographics to support new people entering the hobby in significant numbers to counteract that age curve. I have never been involved with a group (as in sale soaring), where there is a more helpful attitude towards newcomers wanting to learn. I have seen veteran pilots turn over their transmitters to new guy with a $4000.00 sailplane at the other end. There are not two friendlier and nicer guys than Asher Carmicael and Rusty Rood, who run the Pensacola event. Pete George at St. Louis, is one of the most forthright and pro active supporters of aerotowing sailplanes, always willing to support new pilots at events. Your comments tell me the problem is yours. John Derstine -Original Message- From: Lee Estingoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:13 PM To: John Derstine; Daryl Perkins; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation John, Good ideas, but I don't see that bearing out here. The aerotow events bring out even older and crankier guys. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation
In a message dated 11/27/02 9:19:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [RCSE] Contest Participation Daryl is right. Toady's sailplane contests are too focused on long (sometimes lucky) duration or die and tiny spot dorks. The Triathlon contest format requires more strategy and tolerates less sailplane soaring efficiency and spot landing training. This format was further improved with the Max-Man contest format presented earlier in RCSD. We have taken this format to a new level with higher max times up to 15 minutes were landings are scored progressively less toward the 1000 point round maximum. With a 15 minute flight there are no landing points and the flight is scored only on the precision time. We recently flew this event at a TULSOAR Club monthly contest and a Sportsman Contestant was second by only six points. We can send you a spread sheet if you want to consider trying this event. One disadvantage of this format is the time it takes to complete a round, which is not a problem for small contests. Dale Nutter
[RCSE] Contest Participation
Allow me to offer an overlooked reason why I enjoy the TD contests. In the process, I will give the LSF a big thank you. I'm a new flier in North Alabama, and the comments about cost and rules, and skill that I've been reading are true. Yet we have had several spur of the moment contests for the level 2 fliers (me). It turns out that the excitement of a contest is sort of sneaking up on me and it wouldn't happen except for the LSF level 2 requirements. I'm sure that after I satify level 2, I'll be looking for the larger level 3 contest. So give the LSF it rightful due. Have a happy Thanksgiving. David From: Daryl Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Contest Participation Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:14:01 -0800 (PST) I have an interesting thought. Does the fact that contest participation seems to be waning signify less interest and participation in our hobby? Or less interest in the contest format? I think there is probably more people in the hobby than ever before. You do the math... ;-) D __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation
Without opening myself up TOO much, I think there is a bit of truth in the complaints raised here As a third year flier, I am still familiar with being the 'new guy' at the field. If it were only for contests, I would have stopped flying before I ever got started. The DARTS went out of their way to make me feel welcome. They showed me their ships, showed me how to use a winch, explained the different contest formats, opened me up to what kind of planes were out there, who sold them, basically opened up this world to me. Without their come on out Saturday, we'll get you up support that finally got my Sagitta in the air, I'd be down at the local gas field flying an Ugly Stik and dreaming of my first Sukhoi It wasn't contests, it wasn't my first landing for points, it was the first time someone handed me the sticks of ship that I'd built that really hooked me. If I wasn't comfortable in that environment, I never would have come on a Sunday and flown a contest. I guess my point is that it's up to us to keep this sport alive - bring a friend out, help somebody learn, explain different kinds of flying, and talk to spectators. Contests are great, but the first step has to be a knowledgeable flier willing to take the time to share their excitement for this hobby. Participation should come from that love of flying. Happy Thanksgiving all, and thanks to all you who have helped me and others. Brent RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
RE: [RCSE] Contest Participation
This response deserves a big AMEN! Great comments Brent. I think you and I share the same frequency. Pastor Bill :) -Original Message- From: brent douglas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 10:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Participation Without opening myself up TOO much, I think there is a bit of truth in the complaints raised here As a third year flier, I am still familiar with being the 'new guy' at the field. If it were only for contests, I would have stopped flying before I ever got started. The DARTS went out of their way to make me feel welcome. They showed me their ships, showed me how to use a winch, explained the different contest formats, opened me up to what kind of planes were out there, who sold them, basically opened up this world to me. Without their come on out Saturday, we'll get you up support that finally got my Sagitta in the air, I'd be down at the local gas field flying an Ugly Stik and dreaming of my first Sukhoi It wasn't contests, it wasn't my first landing for points, it was the first time someone handed me the sticks of ship that I'd built that really hooked me. If I wasn't comfortable in that environment, I never would have come on a Sunday and flown a contest. I guess my point is that it's up to us to keep this sport alive - bring a friend out, help somebody learn, explain different kinds of flying, and talk to spectators. Contests are great, but the first step has to be a knowledgeable flier willing to take the time to share their excitement for this hobby. Participation should come from that love of flying. Happy Thanksgiving all, and thanks to all you who have helped me and others. Brent RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
[RCSE] Contest Participation
All, I'm enjoying the discussion about contest participation, it must be that time of year again. I took a year off of glider competition to get into pattern flying (yeah I know). I'm also a member of a pattern discussion list like this soaring list. This very same discussion occured on the pattern list not two weeks ago. There are a great deal of simularities between glider and pattern competition, and I have found that there are many cross over pilots like myself (I see alot of familiar names on the pattern list...guys, your secret is safe with me). I like competition, each contest I go to in whatever discipline I learn alot more about flying and aircraft set-up in a day than a month of weekends fun flying. If you want to learn something new, all you have to do is ask and you will usually get more than you ask for. The bottom line is competition is something you have to really, really want to do. Some people are into it, and some are not. If you do not like flying in a specific format, with rules, having people who are better pilots beat you, and a contest director telling you when to fly, please do not go. You will not have fun. Go to a fun fly, and enjoy yourself. I agree that some of the glider formats are boring, but I'm beginning to see MOM format which is cool and I would love to try a multitask contest. BTW if you do not like people sitting right behind you, and judging your flying do not take up pattern! Greg Morris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
