Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Above Ground Level AGL. .bcAG4YQ Williamsburg, VA On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, jon stone wrote: > AGL ?? > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:42:32 -0700, Howard Mark > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Oh... from a winch? > > > > 7,717 feet. July 31 2004. > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and > unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in > text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Yeah, I know that to be true Johnny... Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - > From: "Johnny Berlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Bill Malvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject > > > > I have been accused of haveing to much fun withe the Pegsus, a time or > too > > (BSG) > > > > Johnny > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Did it, it is how I tested my Sky panel. You can se the plot on my website, go to tech tips then Sky melody review page.. I drove between two known elevations, one at Harris Hill glider port down to the Elmira regional airport. Accuracy was within three feet I added the 10 as a modest gesture. The car was cold to start then warmed as I drove, the unit still reported accurate readings. You can see the temperature plot as well. Keep in mind on my computer the graph can be zoomed in on to pinpoint data. John Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:46 PM > To: John Derstine > Cc: 'Johnny Berlin'; 'Mark Wales'; soaring@airage.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject > > > If you feel that your altimeter is grossly innaccurate, it's easy > enough to test by just driving around with it and a GPS in your car, > assuming that you've got some hills to drive on. > > The precision of the GPS, even with WAAS, is likely to be lower than > that of your altimeter, but it should give you a good idea. > > This doesn't take into account temperature variations at altitude, but > should give you a good general idea of how accurate the device is, > especially if you can do something like drive up a 2000' hill. > > If you can get on the roof of a tall building and compare the readings > to that on the ground, that'll work too. > > -- > Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," >PLEASE pretend you don't know me. > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and > AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 06:13:27AM -0500, John Derstine wrote: | With one of those Piccilario altimeters?? :-) We really need to test our | altitude measuring devices somehow. If you feel that your altimeter is grossly innaccurate, it's easy enough to test by just driving around with it and a GPS in your car, assuming that you've got some hills to drive on. The precision of the GPS, even with WAAS, is likely to be lower than that of your altimeter, but it should give you a good idea. This doesn't take into account temperature variations at altitude, but should give you a good general idea of how accurate the device is, especially if you can do something like drive up a 2000' hill. If you can get on the roof of a tall building and compare the readings to that on the ground, that'll work too. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," PLEASE pretend you don't know me. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Yes 7,717 feet AGL -- about 13,000 feet above sea level (Boulder, Co is about 5300') -Original Message- From: jon stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:31 AM To: Howard Mark Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject AGL ?? On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:42:32 -0700, Howard Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh... from a winch? > > 7,717 feet. July 31 2004. > This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify Space Imaging immediately. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
AGL ?? On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:42:32 -0700, Howard Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh... from a winch? > > 7,717 feet. July 31 2004. > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Standard GPS error (drift) can be as high as 16 meters due to the geometry of the constellation and path link errors in the atmosphere. The new WAAS enabled GPS receivers are supposed to be accurate within 3 meters 90% of the time. They use a ground based reference signal to give a more accurate positioning fix. Unlike the old DGPS, all you need is a WAAS enabled receiver to be able to get that accuracy. A neat test to do is take a non-WAAS enabled GPS and zoom in as far as you can on your position. You can actually watch the fix wander around your position as the fix drifts. There a several inexpensive GPS receivers out there that can be put in an RC aircraft to measure altitude and position. The Foretrex 201is very light, compact, and is WAAS enabled. There have been several posts on the list about using them and software that can be used to plot your flight when you land. Cool Stuff. Happy flying, Jim www.jtmodels.com What are the error/accuracy/precision rates of a GPS system and how do they compare to the pressure sensing systems? And of course, how does the cost of a GPS based altimeter system compare. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
The Picolario calibrates itself to ground level, and all altitudes reported are relative to where it was switched on. Anker At 08:47 AM 1/18/2005, Ben Diss wrote: Anyone know the ground elevation in this area? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario) report back ! It was a good weekend for the New Nats Schedule. IMOHO -- Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- > On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin wrote: > > > 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale.. Pegasus tow plane > > I wish I had your eyes. Assuming no slant range on the plane, that is like > looking at a 1/4-inch line from 10 feet away. And that would be the > wingspan!! > ~~~ > Bill Malvey > > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Anker Berg-Sonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 1-18-05 7:20 AM wrote: > The first source of error, the accuracy of the altimeter's pressure sensing, > is what can be calibrated. [...] > > The second source of error, the atmospheric model, [...] > > The third source of error is probably the greatest one, and that is a > deviation in temperature from the ideal atmospheric model. [...] > > [...] > The majority of the error we see comes from non-ideal atmospheric conditions, > not the altimeters themselves. > > Randy Brust > Soaring Circuits Randy and others, What are the error/accuracy/precision rates of a GPS system and how do they compare to the pressure sensing systems? And of course, how does the cost of a GPS based altimeter system compare. -- Jim Holliman -- Tulsa, Oklahoma AMA & TULSOAR RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Anyone know the ground elevation in this area? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario) report back ! It was a good weekend for the New Nats Schedule. IMOHO -- Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- > On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin wrote: > > > 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale.. Pegasus tow plane > > I wish I had your eyes. Assuming no slant range on the plane, that is like > looking at a 1/4-inch line from 10 feet away. And that would be the > wingspan!! > ~~~ > Bill Malvey > > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
In a message dated 1/18/2005 6:14:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am not doubting the good eyes, I have see Johnny B. tow too very highaltitudes, but a Pegasus at 4000' agl is invisible. I will gladly standcorrected if someone can prove or verify these kinds of altitude claims.Maybe we should put a pic, a Sky melody, an Eagle Tree system, and aCasio watch in one plane and see what we get for grins.I will loan the Sky melody/sky panel. I calibrated mine last year. It isaccurate to 3-10 feet in 1000' altitude gain. A barometric altimeter will not be accurate to within 3-10 feet in 1000. This is a 0.3% to 1.0% error. The error in an electronic barometric altimeter comes from 3 sources; the ability of the altimeter to correctly sense the atmospheric pressure, the accuracy of the atmospheric model that is used to convert pressure to altitude, and the deviation of the atmosphere from the standards set in the model, primarily temperature. The first source of error, the accuracy of the altimeter's pressure sensing, is what can be calibrated. Even so, it is difficult to get the unit to hold an accuracy of less than 0.5% over a period of time. The second source of error, the atmospheric model, is based on an ideal version of the atmosphere where the temperature at sea level is 15C, the pressure is 29.92, and the temperature decreases with altitude at a rate of about 1.98C per 1000 feet. Any deviation from these ideal conditions will introduce an error into the altitude reading. Even under these ideal conditions, the model is still a model, it is not exact. The third source of error is probably the greatest one, and that is a deviation in temperature from the ideal atmospheric model. Full scale pilots know that when it's cold outside, a barometric altimeter will read high. Conversely, if it's hot out, an altimeter will read low. Fortunately, over the temperature range that we typically fly our models at, the effect is not that great, but you can see errors of over 5% if flying near freezing or 100F and not compensating for temperature. We've done a lot of testing and have found that typically, after temperature compensation, our altimeters will read within about 2% of actual altitude. The majority of the error we see comes from non-ideal atmospheric conditions, not the altimeters themselves. Thanks, Randy Brust Soaring Circuits
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
I was there, its true, as I heard the Altimeter (Picolario) report back ! It was a good weekend for the New Nats Schedule. IMOHO --Jack Strother Granger, IN LSF 2948 LSF Level V #117 LSF Official 1996 - 2004 CSS Gold -- Original message -- > On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin wrote: > > > 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale.. Pegasus tow plane > > I wish I had your eyes. Assuming no slant range on the plane, that is like > looking at a 1/4-inch line from 10 feet away. And that would be the > wingspan!! > ~~~ > Bill Malvey > > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME > turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
With one of those Piccilario altimeters?? :-) We really need to test our altitude measuring devices somehow. I am not doubting the good eyes, I have see Johnny B. tow too very high altitudes, but a Pegasus at 4000' agl is invisible. I will gladly stand corrected if someone can prove or verify these kinds of altitude claims. Maybe we should put a pic, a Sky melody, an Eagle Tree system, and a Casio watch in one plane and see what we get for grins. I will loan the Sky melody/sky panel. I calibrated mine last year. It is accurate to 3-10 feet in 1000' altitude gain. Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- Dennis Hoyle WMSS Sec / Treasurer / Web Geek Last August Troy Lawicki flew his 2M Duck to 4077' feet at the 2M MOM contest. That guy has got eagle eyes. Whipped my measly 3604' with my Sapphire > -Original Message- > From: Johnny Berlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:52 PM > To: Mark Wales; soaring@airage.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject > > 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane > > > Johnny > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Title: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject Oh... from a winch? 7,717 feet. July 31 2004. Mark From: Lighthorse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Mon 1/17/2005 6:58 PMTo: Mark WalesCc: soaring@airage.comSubject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject I should have said, Launched from a winch.--KenYork County Soaring"Lighthorse" Team YCSSilence is GoldenRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format *** This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify Space Imaging immediately. ***
RE: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Last August Troy Lawicki flew his 2M Duck to 4077' feet at the 2M MOM contest. That guy has got eagle eyes. Whipped my measly 3604' with my Sapphire http://www.rcsoaring.org/newsmgr/templates/wmss.asp?articleid=62&zoneid=5 Dennis Hoyle WMSS Sec / Treasurer / Web Geek _|_ | /_\ / \ \_\ /_/ '-\_/-' " -Original Message- From: Johnny Berlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:52 PM To: Mark Wales; soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane Johnny - Original Message - From: "Mark Wales" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:50 PM Subject: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject > > Those of you out there flying with altimitters. > How high have you flown and with what sailplane? > > Myself: > In Aug 1995 my Windsong hit 3740 ft AGL. Never want to try that > again. > > Mark > > Soaring Is Life!! > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send > "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and > AOL are generally NOT in text format > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
I should have said, Launched from a winch. -- Ken York County Soaring "Lighthorse" Team YCS Silence is Golden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
On 1/17/05 17:51 Johnny Berlin wrote: > 3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane I wish I had your eyes. Assuming no slant range on the plane, that is like looking at a 1/4-inch line from 10 feet away. And that would be the wingspan!! ~~~ Bill Malvey RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
3999 ft. 2004 Nats cross contry scale..Pegasus tow plane Johnny - Original Message - From: "Mark Wales" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:50 PM Subject: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject Those of you out there flying with altimitters. How high have you flown and with what sailplane? Myself: In Aug 1995 my Windsong hit 3740 ft AGL. Never want to try that again. Mark Soaring Is Life!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Using the Skymelody, Flying the SB-XC, by RnR, I reached 1500m, Way to high, When I brought the plane down The last reading from that fine German girl was 650m, almost immediately after the plane blew up. according to RnR and xcsoaring I was in excess of 150 mph and flutter took over. Hence I am learning safer ways to bring my plane down from high altitudes so that I do not do the same with the sister ship. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:50:05 +, Mark Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Those of you out there flying with altimitters. > How high have you flown and with what sailplane? > > Myself: > In Aug 1995 my Windsong hit 3740 ft AGL. Never want to try that again. > > Mark > > Soaring Is Life!! > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and > unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in > text format > -- Ken York County Soaring "Lighthorse" Team YCS Silence is Golden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject
Title: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider/off subject Mark Wales on 1-17-05 3:50 PM wrote: Myself: In Aug 1995 my Windsong hit 3740 ft AGL. Never want to try that again. Mark How big is that Windsong to be able to see it that high? -- Jim Holliman -- Tulsa, Oklahoma AMA & TULSOAR
