RE: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
We've been battling performance with the realtime shaders for years. What we discovered is that the draw call runs as expected, but Softimage spends an awful amount of time figuring out if something needs to be drawn/updated. I think we measured it around 20% of the frame time - which is obscene when you compare it to a computer game which spends less than 2%. Then again, a game engine isn't an editing environment. If these numbers are accurate, it might pay to just do a forced draw rather than spend time to figure it out. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ahmidou Lyazidi [ahmidou@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 10:02 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only) I'll try drawing nothing tonight, but I doubt it's going to change anything. The bottleneck seem to be the draw callback itself --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/25 Steven Caron car...@gmail.commailto:car...@gmail.com i am still an opengl noob but maybe don't use fixed function calls? the data set is very small so you might find the results negligible but might be interesting to know for certain? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.commailto:ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations...
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations... --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/24 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com Curves are generally slower to use as controls during drawing, but it's not just because of the drawing expenses (almost not at all because of that in fact, there is hardly any difference between a 20 points icon and a 6 points multi emulating a null). A striaght OGL drawing of those lines in a null would be considerably faster. On playback, in a half decent rig, you wouldn't be displaying curves though, and at that point who cares? :) On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.comwrote: Merci Ahmidou. I'm fluent! :p btw, is that comparison is 16 points lin curve againts a null with circle shape (which has 16 points) ? -edy On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Thanks Edy :) From my test, a 16 point linear curve is 30% slower than a null... I didn't expect that. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/24 Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.com slightly off topic.. I'm now wondering how much is the time difference of a null object drawing compared to a linear curve... Congrats for the release btw :) (shake hands) -edy On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
i am still an opengl noob but maybe don't use fixed function calls? the data set is very small so you might find the results negligible but might be interesting to know for certain? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations...
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
I'll try drawing nothing tonight, but I doubt it's going to change anything. The bottleneck seem to be the draw callback itself --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/25 Steven Caron car...@gmail.com i am still an opengl noob but maybe don't use fixed function calls? the data set is very small so you might find the results negligible but might be interesting to know for certain? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations...
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
draw nothing? i was thinking replacing it with vbos or vertex arrays... On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: I'll try drawing nothing tonight, but I doubt it's going to change anything. The bottleneck seem to be the draw callback itself --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/25 Steven Caron car...@gmail.com i am still an opengl noob but maybe don't use fixed function calls? the data set is very small so you might find the results negligible but might be interesting to know for certain? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations...
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Yes drawing nothing, if the perf is the same, a VBO wouldn't be faster eitherI guess --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/25 Steven Caron car...@gmail.com draw nothing? i was thinking replacing it with vbos or vertex arrays... On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: I'll try drawing nothing tonight, but I doubt it's going to change anything. The bottleneck seem to be the draw callback itself --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/25 Steven Caron car...@gmail.com i am still an opengl noob but maybe don't use fixed function calls? the data set is very small so you might find the results negligible but might be interesting to know for certain? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: That's why I thought custom primitives would be faster, but apparently the SDK overhead defeat my expectations...
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
slightly off topic.. I'm now wondering how much is the time difference of a null object drawing compared to a linear curve... Congrats for the release btw :) (shake hands) -edy On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Thanks Edy :) From my test, a 16 point linear curve is 30% slower than a null... I didn't expect that. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/24 Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.com slightly off topic.. I'm now wondering how much is the time difference of a null object drawing compared to a linear curve... Congrats for the release btw :) (shake hands) -edy On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Merci Ahmidou. I'm fluent! :p btw, is that comparison is 16 points lin curve againts a null with circle shape (which has 16 points) ? -edy On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Thanks Edy :) From my test, a 16 point linear curve is 30% slower than a null... I didn't expect that. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/24 Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.com slightly off topic.. I'm now wondering how much is the time difference of a null object drawing compared to a linear curve... Congrats for the release btw :) (shake hands) -edy On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Curves are generally slower to use as controls during drawing, but it's not just because of the drawing expenses (almost not at all because of that in fact, there is hardly any difference between a 20 points icon and a 6 points multi emulating a null). A striaght OGL drawing of those lines in a null would be considerably faster. On playback, in a half decent rig, you wouldn't be displaying curves though, and at that point who cares? :) On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.comwrote: Merci Ahmidou. I'm fluent! :p btw, is that comparison is 16 points lin curve againts a null with circle shape (which has 16 points) ? -edy On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Thanks Edy :) From my test, a 16 point linear curve is 30% slower than a null... I didn't expect that. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/24 Edy Susanto Lim edysusant...@gmail.com slightly off topic.. I'm now wondering how much is the time difference of a null object drawing compared to a linear curve... Congrats for the release btw :) (shake hands) -edy On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.com wrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com -- Edy Susanto Lim TD http://sawamura.neorack.com -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details. aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com
Re: A custom openGL Icons for TD/riggers (SI-2014+ only)
Unfortunatly we don't have 2014 at work, and I'm on win7 at home, but you can get the sources here: https://bitbucket.org/ahmidou_lyazidi/al_icons/src About the benefits, well not that much :) I was frustrated by the null's icons and the fact that you can't rotate them, so when the custom primitive came out, that was an occasion to play with them. Actually I was excpecting a better performance... but that still OK The two things I see is it's typed as an Icon, so it's easier and more robust to filter and you can't accidentaly edit them. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/6/21 Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com Any chance for Linux support? Also, what do you see as the benefits to OpenGL icons over say, curve-based ones? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ahmidou Lyazidi ahmidou@gmail.comwrote: Hi gang, I was missing this feature since a long time so I gave it a go This plugin use a json file as definition so you can add as many shapes as you want. things to know: -It have SRT offset and size parameters, and currently support only one closed curve per icon. -The icon.json file must be in the same directory than the dll (in the plugin folder), and the definition is a flat array of formatted like this [x0,x1,x2...,y0,y1,y2...,z0,z1,z2...]. -Performance wise, a quick benchmark showed that it's ~7% slower than a curve equivalent, but the good thing is that it has it's own type (Icon) and can be filtered . -The primitive is located in the createprimitive menu -You need to install this: http://www.microsoft .com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679 -It's not tested that much, use it at you own risk!!! Download: AL_Iconshttp://www.si-community.com/community/download/file.php?id=2981 Cheers A. --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com
