Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Jason S]

I think all parties points are valid and *really* non-contradictory
(nobody "right" or "wrong" mostly depending on each's situation)

For me (personally), if photoshop "officially" got retired (analogy not 
used lightly)

it would absolutely remain my tool of choice,
knowing there wouldn't be anything like it by a mile apart for a while, 
when cranking stuff out.

(making abstraction of my own personal preference when considering things)

While remaining confident that it would be a matter of time before 
something came-up.


Autodesk officially declaring it as "dead", to me does not make it more 
or less "dead" than it's been since October 23rd 2008.



On 03/06/14 7:12, Chris Marshall wrote:
Is there anything out there at all like ICE? I'm not a coder, but 
understand the concepts as I used to code a long time ago, which is 
what made ICE a great tool for someone like me.



On 6 March 2014 11:29, Eric Thivierge > wrote:


ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in
the other applications. Those who have built them should have the
chops to get it done since at its core, it is just math and logic.

I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where
you need to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get
current or up coming jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to
continue to build plugins for Softimage only. Even in its prime,
the 3rd party tools market for Softimage is minimal.

If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's
going to be helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric
is, in my opinion, the correct direction. Support your plugins for
Softimage but diversify to others are the same time.

For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't
believe Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are
developers and TD's. It's a valid point that for these people to
make a living, they need to transition faster than most. We
already saw another thread where someone lost a dev job because
they announced the end of Softimage. This is just the beginning.

Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to
continue with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with
Houdini and I believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid
approach allows you to keep your work relevant while having a
comfortable transition using Softimage during that time until
you're fully comfortable in say Maya.

I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure
that is to get more developers on board to push it there asap.

Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage
for years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is
in its prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April
2016.




--

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk 

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Nicolas Esposito]

I know that Fabric engine is growing up fast and honestly I'm really happy
to know that visual programming is on the way, so at least I will be able
to try out the basic and understand whats going on, then, over time maybe
the library of the KL "nodes" will expand, so it'll be accessible to a
wider audience that is in my same situation

Based on the videos lots of cool stuff have been added, and it looks like
they're not super-complicated to setup ( if you know what you're doing :-D
) so thats a plus, then there is the Realtime Renderer that looks very very
promising, looking forward to see what else could be done


2014-03-06 13:35 GMT+01:00 Paul Doyle :

> My comment regarding Python familiarity was trying to say that if you can
> write code in a dynamic language like python or javascript, then KL will be
> accessible to you. With FE2.0 we will have visual programming capabilities,
> but the library of KL nodes will have to build up in much the same way that
> ICE built up over time.
>
> It's important to note that we aren't making ICE2.0 - although our team
> had a lot to do with ICE, that doesn't mean we think it's the perfect
> solution. There are many differences between architectures that mean visual
> programming systems are rarely similar beyond 'boxes and lines'. It's
> important that expectations are around 'visual programming for Fabric'
> rather than "Fabric is making a new ICE'.
>
>
> On 6 March 2014 07:25, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
>
>> Houdini seems to be the closest thing:
>>
>> http://frenchdog.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/ice-vs-vop/
>>
>>
>> On 6 March 2014 12:12, Chris Marshall  wrote:
>>
>>> Is there anything out there at all like ICE? I'm not a coder, but
>>> understand the concepts as I used to code a long time ago, which is what
>>> made ICE a great tool for someone like me.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 March 2014 11:29, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>>>
 ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in the
 other applications. Those who have built them should have the chops to get
 it done since at its core, it is just math and logic.

 I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where you
 need to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get current or up
 coming jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to continue to build plugins
 for Softimage only. Even in its prime, the 3rd party tools market for
 Softimage is minimal.

 If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's going to
 be helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric is, in my opinion,
 the correct direction. Support your plugins for Softimage but diversify to
 others are the same time.

 For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't
 believe Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are developers and
 TD's. It's a valid point that for these people to make a living, they need
 to transition faster than most. We already saw another thread where someone
 lost a dev job because they announced the end of Softimage. This is just
 the beginning.

 Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to
 continue with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with Houdini
 and I believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid approach allows you
 to keep your work relevant while having a comfortable transition using
 Softimage during that time until you're fully comfortable in say Maya.

 I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure that
 is to get more developers on board to push it there asap.

 Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage for
 years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is in its
 prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April 2016.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Chris Marshall
>>> Mint Motion Limited
>>> 029 20 37 27 57
>>> 07730 533 115
>>> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Paul Doyle]

My comment regarding Python familiarity was trying to say that if you can
write code in a dynamic language like python or javascript, then KL will be
accessible to you. With FE2.0 we will have visual programming capabilities,
but the library of KL nodes will have to build up in much the same way that
ICE built up over time.

It's important to note that we aren't making ICE2.0 - although our team had
a lot to do with ICE, that doesn't mean we think it's the perfect solution.
There are many differences between architectures that mean visual
programming systems are rarely similar beyond 'boxes and lines'. It's
important that expectations are around 'visual programming for Fabric'
rather than "Fabric is making a new ICE'.


On 6 March 2014 07:25, Cristobal Infante  wrote:

> Houdini seems to be the closest thing:
>
> http://frenchdog.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/ice-vs-vop/
>
>
> On 6 March 2014 12:12, Chris Marshall  wrote:
>
>> Is there anything out there at all like ICE? I'm not a coder, but
>> understand the concepts as I used to code a long time ago, which is what
>> made ICE a great tool for someone like me.
>>
>>
>> On 6 March 2014 11:29, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>>
>>> ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in the
>>> other applications. Those who have built them should have the chops to get
>>> it done since at its core, it is just math and logic.
>>>
>>> I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where you
>>> need to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get current or up
>>> coming jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to continue to build plugins
>>> for Softimage only. Even in its prime, the 3rd party tools market for
>>> Softimage is minimal.
>>>
>>> If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's going to
>>> be helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric is, in my opinion,
>>> the correct direction. Support your plugins for Softimage but diversify to
>>> others are the same time.
>>>
>>> For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't believe
>>> Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are developers and TD's.
>>> It's a valid point that for these people to make a living, they need to
>>> transition faster than most. We already saw another thread where someone
>>> lost a dev job because they announced the end of Softimage. This is just
>>> the beginning.
>>>
>>> Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to continue
>>> with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with Houdini and I
>>> believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid approach allows you to keep
>>> your work relevant while having a comfortable transition using Softimage
>>> during that time until you're fully comfortable in say Maya.
>>>
>>> I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure that
>>> is to get more developers on board to push it there asap.
>>>
>>> Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage for
>>> years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is in its
>>> prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April 2016.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Marshall
>> Mint Motion Limited
>> 029 20 37 27 57
>> 07730 533 115
>> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>>
>>
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Cristobal Infante]

Houdini seems to be the closest thing:

http://frenchdog.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/ice-vs-vop/


On 6 March 2014 12:12, Chris Marshall  wrote:

> Is there anything out there at all like ICE? I'm not a coder, but
> understand the concepts as I used to code a long time ago, which is what
> made ICE a great tool for someone like me.
>
>
> On 6 March 2014 11:29, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>
>> ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in the
>> other applications. Those who have built them should have the chops to get
>> it done since at its core, it is just math and logic.
>>
>> I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where you
>> need to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get current or up
>> coming jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to continue to build plugins
>> for Softimage only. Even in its prime, the 3rd party tools market for
>> Softimage is minimal.
>>
>> If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's going to be
>> helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric is, in my opinion,
>> the correct direction. Support your plugins for Softimage but diversify to
>> others are the same time.
>>
>> For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't believe
>> Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are developers and TD's.
>> It's a valid point that for these people to make a living, they need to
>> transition faster than most. We already saw another thread where someone
>> lost a dev job because they announced the end of Softimage. This is just
>> the beginning.
>>
>> Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to continue
>> with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with Houdini and I
>> believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid approach allows you to keep
>> your work relevant while having a comfortable transition using Softimage
>> during that time until you're fully comfortable in say Maya.
>>
>> I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure that is
>> to get more developers on board to push it there asap.
>>
>> Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage for
>> years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is in its
>> prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April 2016.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Marshall
> Mint Motion Limited
> 029 20 37 27 57
> 07730 533 115
> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Chris Marshall]

Is there anything out there at all like ICE? I'm not a coder, but
understand the concepts as I used to code a long time ago, which is what
made ICE a great tool for someone like me.


On 6 March 2014 11:29, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

> ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in the
> other applications. Those who have built them should have the chops to get
> it done since at its core, it is just math and logic.
>
> I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where you need
> to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get current or up coming
> jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to continue to build plugins for
> Softimage only. Even in its prime, the 3rd party tools market for Softimage
> is minimal.
>
> If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's going to be
> helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric is, in my opinion,
> the correct direction. Support your plugins for Softimage but diversify to
> others are the same time.
>
> For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't believe
> Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are developers and TD's.
> It's a valid point that for these people to make a living, they need to
> transition faster than most. We already saw another thread where someone
> lost a dev job because they announced the end of Softimage. This is just
> the beginning.
>
> Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to continue
> with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with Houdini and I
> believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid approach allows you to keep
> your work relevant while having a comfortable transition using Softimage
> during that time until you're fully comfortable in say Maya.
>
> I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure that is
> to get more developers on board to push it there asap.
>
> Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage for
> years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is in its
> prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April 2016.
>



-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Eric Thivierge]

ICE compounds get ported by converting them to scripts / nodes in the other
applications. Those who have built them should have the chops to get it
done since at its core, it is just math and logic.

I'm 100% behind Raf here. Unless you're working at a studio where you need
to continue to dev Softimage plugins in order to get current or up coming
jobs out the door it doesn't make sense to continue to build plugins for
Softimage only. Even in its prime, the 3rd party tools market for Softimage
is minimal.

If you can dev for multiple platforms at the same time that's going to be
helpful as well. Mootz and his early test with Fabric is, in my opinion,
the correct direction. Support your plugins for Softimage but diversify to
others are the same time.

For those who are replying and don't know how to script, I don't believe
Raf's comments were for you. Its for those who are developers and TD's.
It's a valid point that for these people to make a living, they need to
transition faster than most. We already saw another thread where someone
lost a dev job because they announced the end of Softimage. This is just
the beginning.

Fabric is one of the only options I see as a viable platform to continue
with. Splice works in Softimage and Maya currently with Houdini and I
believe Max coming within the year. This hybrid approach allows you to keep
your work relevant while having a comfortable transition using Softimage
during that time until you're fully comfortable in say Maya.

I know it's not artistic friendly yet, but the only way to ensure that is
to get more developers on board to push it there asap.

Raf, myself, and many others have been hard core fans of Softimage for
years. It's not like we're are giving up on a solution that is in its
prime. It's on its last leg with a drop dead date of April 2016.

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Chris Marshall]

How do ICE trees get ported elsewhere?


On 6 March 2014 10:20, Christian Gotzinger  wrote:

> I'm with Raffaele, I think it doesn't make much sense to cling to SI when
> it comes to developing tools. I've built a ton of custom Soft and ICE tools
> that help us in our workflow, but ever since the news has been dropped I
> don't intend to spend much more time developing them further.
>
> This is a dead end, and I'd rather spend time porting these tools to
> another application, be that Maya or Houdini, than pour even more time into
> something that's not coming back to life.
>
> I'm not sure at what point in life I learned how to move on, but that
> learning process had nothing to do with software. And nowadays, even as one
> of the greatest SI fanboys out there, I have a very sober,
> matter-of-fact-ish point of view on events such as this.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>
>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
>> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>
>>
>


-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Christian Gotzinger]

I'm with Raffaele, I think it doesn't make much sense to cling to SI when
it comes to developing tools. I've built a ton of custom Soft and ICE tools
that help us in our workflow, but ever since the news has been dropped I
don't intend to spend much more time developing them further.

This is a dead end, and I'd rather spend time porting these tools to
another application, be that Maya or Houdini, than pour even more time into
something that's not coming back to life.

I'm not sure at what point in life I learned how to move on, but that
learning process had nothing to do with software. And nowadays, even as one
of the greatest SI fanboys out there, I have a very sober,
matter-of-fact-ish point of view on events such as this.



On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>
> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[olivier jeannel]

Same here.
Learning to code is out of my range.



Le 06/03/2014 11:05, Nicolas Esposito a écrit :
Right now for me there's not much difference between Python, 
Javascript or KL, simply because I'm not familiar with none of them :-D


I just sent an email to Paul, explaining what I would like to achieve 
with Fabric, specifically with the Realtime Renderer


Hopefully it wont be super-complicated, but yes, if in order to use 
Fabric engine to extend my pipeline I need to learn KL language ( 
without any visual node-based programming ) I'm in trouble :-D



2014-03-06 10:45 GMT+01:00 Martin Yara >:


I think you meant Python = coding, so I just wanted to note that
Python is not equal to Scripting and FE's KL seems closer to
Javascript than it is to Python.

I still see FE not very viable for freelancer artists and very
small companies, not yet at least.

I wish ADSK had retired SI when FE, Modo, etc, were more mature,
and even Maya a little less painful to use.

Martin

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Nicolas Esposito]

Right now for me there's not much difference between Python, Javascript or
KL, simply because I'm not familiar with none of them :-D

I just sent an email to Paul, explaining what I would like to achieve with
Fabric, specifically with the Realtime Renderer

Hopefully it wont be super-complicated, but yes, if in order to use Fabric
engine to extend my pipeline I need to learn KL language ( without any
visual node-based programming ) I'm in trouble :-D


2014-03-06 10:45 GMT+01:00 Martin Yara :

> I think you meant Python = coding, so I just wanted to note that Python is
> not equal to Scripting and FE's KL seems closer to Javascript than it is to
> Python.
>
> I still see FE not very viable for freelancer artists and very small
> companies, not yet at least.
>
> I wish ADSK had retired SI when FE, Modo, etc, were more mature, and even
> Maya a little less painful to use.
>
> Martin
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Martin Yara]

I think you meant Python = coding, so I just wanted to note that Python is
not equal to Scripting and FE's KL seems closer to Javascript than it is to
Python.

I still see FE not very viable for freelancer artists and very small
companies, not yet at least.

I wish ADSK had retired SI when FE, Modo, etc, were more mature, and even
Maya a little less painful to use.

Martin

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Rob Wuijster]

Wasn't visual programming to be part of FE 2.0?
It's somewhere in the long list of replies on FE ;-)


Rob

\/-\/\/

On 6-3-2014 9:25, Nicolas Esposito wrote:
I'll throw it there, but its more towards the Fabric Engine guys ( and 
for you too of course )


Since some of the Softimage users do not use python ( blasphemy, I 
know ), yesterday I was looking at Fabric engine and it has huge 
potentials


They said clearly that if you're not familiar with python you'll 
struggle to achieve something, since it does almost "nothing" out of 
the box, and its up to you what you would like to create/code.


Sowhat about a node-based logic system ala ICE? What I mean is 
visual programming that would simplify life for someone who's not 
familiar with python or programming in general



2014-03-06 7:26 GMT+01:00 Emilio Hernandez >:


Well speaking of soultions, what I use in my arsenal being
Softimage the core of my small but efficient pipeline is:

3D related
PFtrack
Vue
Realflow
Zbrush
Mari

Comp related and VFX
AE
Nuke
Mocha

Editing
Media Composer

Finishing
DS  This one is now also discontinued by Avid, but I fell in love
when Softimage launched it.

Encoding
Media Encoder

I have Maya also to keep up with it and when I have to deliver
assets in this platform, and 3DMax as they come together in the
suite.  But mostly when I buy some models that are only available
in 3dMAX to click the "send to Softimage" button.

I've spend a lot and I am still doing it just to keep current with
all of these babies.

Now getting Softimage out of the equation and buy a Modo license
and add an aditional $7,000 for Houdini.  Well, no thanks at this
moment.

And now that I don't have to keep current with Softimage, I can
invest my money in new or udpated addons for SI.

Yes I am a passionate of Softimage.  But I have also a business to
run and a family to support.

So it is not a denial phase or fanatic stage.  It is the way I
bring food to the table.






---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 23:29 GMT-06:00 Jason S mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com>>:

Perhaps 3 years might be pushing-it.
Most people having moved from 1 different solution in the past
can become productive after a month or two in a new
environment, remapping pretty much the same concepts in a
different interface (and hotkeys)
(intimidation being the main obstacle)

But looking (or especially experiencing) various steps
involved for achieving various things in various apps.. is
where it becomes clear what solution has been (and hasn't
stopped being) on the bleeding edge.
 (that being a more or less crude generalization of course)

But enough for it to remain a reference of "what to top" in
terms of how streamlined many common tasks are,
but also in regards to .. lets call it "tool interop stability"
(or having/making elaborate setups work or not explode) for
instance among other core aspects,
(such as changing things after everyhtings done)
for any new app coming along.




On 03/05/14 23:31, Stephen Davidson wrote:

I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of
experience with the present interface, and I remember
postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000,
for almost 3 years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D,
and I'm finally starting to play around with ICE
compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over
again.

One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because
I have tried to learn other 3D Apps and
the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done
quickly, as I am a freelancer and not on
corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself
while on the corporate dime)

It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE
compounds) a bit at a time, as needed for
projects.

I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass
growing and blowing in the wind for a commercial.
I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish
the basics of the scene. I did a little
research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0
 . Now, through the kindness of
Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
compounds that helped me design something more custom to the
job. Plug and play around a little, as
opposed to reinventing the wheel.

I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am
  

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Nicolas Esposito]

I'll throw it there, but its more towards the Fabric Engine guys ( and for
you too of course )

Since some of the Softimage users do not use python ( blasphemy, I know ),
yesterday I was looking at Fabric engine and it has huge potentials

They said clearly that if you're not familiar with python you'll struggle
to achieve something, since it does almost "nothing" out of the box, and
its up to you what you would like to create/code.

Sowhat about a node-based logic system ala ICE? What I mean is visual
programming that would simplify life for someone who's not familiar with
python or programming in general


2014-03-06 7:26 GMT+01:00 Emilio Hernandez :

> Well speaking of soultions, what I use in my arsenal being Softimage the
> core of my small but efficient pipeline is:
>
> 3D related
> PFtrack
> Vue
> Realflow
> Zbrush
> Mari
>
> Comp related and VFX
> AE
> Nuke
> Mocha
>
> Editing
> Media Composer
>
> Finishing
> DS  This one is now also discontinued by Avid, but I fell in love when
> Softimage launched it.
>
> Encoding
> Media Encoder
>
> I have Maya also to keep up with it and when I have to deliver assets in
> this platform, and 3DMax as they come together in the suite.  But mostly
> when I buy some models that are only available in 3dMAX to click the "send
> to Softimage" button.
>
> I've spend a lot and I am still doing it just to keep current with all of
> these babies.
>
> Now getting Softimage out of the equation and buy a Modo license and add
> an aditional $7,000 for Houdini.  Well, no thanks at this moment.
>
> And now that I don't have to keep current with Softimage, I can invest my
> money in new or udpated addons for SI.
>
> Yes I am a passionate of Softimage.  But I have also a business to run and
> a family to support.
>
> So it is not a denial phase or fanatic stage.  It is the way I bring food
> to the table.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 23:29 GMT-06:00 Jason S :
>
>  Perhaps 3 years might be pushing-it.
>> Most people having moved from 1 different solution in the past can become
>> productive after a month or two in a new environment, remapping pretty much
>> the same concepts in a different interface (and hotkeys)
>> (intimidation being the main obstacle)
>>
>> But looking (or especially experiencing) various steps involved for
>> achieving various things in various apps.. is where it becomes clear what
>> solution has been (and hasn't stopped being) on the bleeding edge.
>>  (that being a more or less crude generalization of course)
>>
>> But enough for it to remain a reference of "what to top" in terms of how
>> streamlined many common tasks are,
>> but also in regards to .. lets call it "tool interop stability"
>> (or having/making elaborate setups work or not explode) for instance
>> among other core aspects,
>> (such as changing things after everyhtings done)
>> for any new app coming along.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/05/14 23:31, Stephen Davidson wrote:
>>
>> I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with the
>> present interface, and I remember
>> postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for almost 3
>> years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
>> painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm
>> finally starting to play around with ICE
>> compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.
>>
>>  One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have
>> tried to learn other 3D Apps and
>> the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as I
>> am a freelancer and not on
>> corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on
>> the corporate dime)
>>
>>  It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a bit
>> at a time, as needed for
>> projects.
>>
>>  I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and
>> blowing in the wind for a commercial.
>> I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the basics
>> of the scene. I did a little
>> research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . Now,
>> through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
>> compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug
>> and play around a little, as
>> opposed to reinventing the wheel.
>>
>>  I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable"
>> in the cockpit of Softimage.
>> Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, but
>> it is invested time, that I
>> am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be,
>> anyway? I must
>> admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.
>>
>>  Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not
>> starting all over again.
>> Just my 2 (not TD) cents.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>>
>>> Not really Raffaele.

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

Well speaking of soultions, what I use in my arsenal being Softimage the
core of my small but efficient pipeline is:

3D related
PFtrack
Vue
Realflow
Zbrush
Mari

Comp related and VFX
AE
Nuke
Mocha

Editing
Media Composer

Finishing
DS  This one is now also discontinued by Avid, but I fell in love when
Softimage launched it.

Encoding
Media Encoder

I have Maya also to keep up with it and when I have to deliver assets in
this platform, and 3DMax as they come together in the suite.  But mostly
when I buy some models that are only available in 3dMAX to click the "send
to Softimage" button.

I've spend a lot and I am still doing it just to keep current with all of
these babies.

Now getting Softimage out of the equation and buy a Modo license and add an
aditional $7,000 for Houdini.  Well, no thanks at this moment.

And now that I don't have to keep current with Softimage, I can invest my
money in new or udpated addons for SI.

Yes I am a passionate of Softimage.  But I have also a business to run and
a family to support.

So it is not a denial phase or fanatic stage.  It is the way I bring food
to the table.






---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 23:29 GMT-06:00 Jason S :

>  Perhaps 3 years might be pushing-it.
> Most people having moved from 1 different solution in the past can become
> productive after a month or two in a new environment, remapping pretty much
> the same concepts in a different interface (and hotkeys)
> (intimidation being the main obstacle)
>
> But looking (or especially experiencing) various steps involved for
> achieving various things in various apps.. is where it becomes clear what
> solution has been (and hasn't stopped being) on the bleeding edge.
>  (that being a more or less crude generalization of course)
>
> But enough for it to remain a reference of "what to top" in terms of how
> streamlined many common tasks are,
> but also in regards to .. lets call it "tool interop stability"
> (or having/making elaborate setups work or not explode) for instance among
> other core aspects,
> (such as changing things after everyhtings done)
> for any new app coming along.
>
>
>
>
> On 03/05/14 23:31, Stephen Davidson wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with the
> present interface, and I remember
> postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for almost 3
> years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
> painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm finally
> starting to play around with ICE
> compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.
>
>  One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have
> tried to learn other 3D Apps and
> the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as I
> am a freelancer and not on
> corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on the
> corporate dime)
>
>  It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a bit
> at a time, as needed for
> projects.
>
>  I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and
> blowing in the wind for a commercial.
> I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the basics
> of the scene. I did a little
> research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . Now,
> through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
> compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug and
> play around a little, as
> opposed to reinventing the wheel.
>
>  I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable" in
> the cockpit of Softimage.
> Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, but it
> is invested time, that I
> am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be,
> anyway? I must
> admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.
>
>  Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not
> starting all over again.
> Just my 2 (not TD) cents.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>
>> Not really Raffaele.
>>
>>  There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of
>> time and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And
>> that in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is
>> an OS that runs it.
>>
>>  How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
>> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>>
>>  How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
>> Softimage does.
>>
>>  A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So
>> there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>>
>> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
>> It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
>> actually will make me work faster.
>>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Jason S]

Perhaps 3 years might be pushing-it.
Most people having moved from 1 different solution in the past can 
become productive after a month or two in a new environment, remapping 
pretty much the same concepts in a different interface (and hotkeys)

(intimidation being the main obstacle)

But looking (or especially experiencing) various steps involved for 
achieving various things in various apps.. is where it becomes clear 
what solution has been (and hasn't stopped being) on the bleeding edge.

 (that being a more or less crude generalization of course)

But enough for it to remain a reference of "what to top" in terms of how 
streamlined many common tasks are,

but also in regards to .. lets call it "tool interop stability"
(or having/making elaborate setups work or not explode) for instance 
among other core aspects,

(such as changing things after everyhtings done)
for any new app coming along.



On 03/05/14 23:31, Stephen Davidson wrote:
I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with 
the present interface, and I remember
postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for 
almost 3 years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm 
finally starting to play around with ICE

compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.

One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have 
tried to learn other 3D Apps and
the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as 
I am a freelancer and not on
corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on 
the corporate dime)


It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a 
bit at a time, as needed for

projects.

I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and 
blowing in the wind for a commercial.
I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the 
basics of the scene. I did a little
research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . 
Now, through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug 
and play around a little, as

opposed to reinventing the wheel.

I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable" 
in the cockpit of Softimage.
Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, 
but it is invested time, that I
am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be, 
anyway? I must

admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.

Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not 
starting all over again.

Just my 2 (not TD) cents.


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez > wrote:


Not really Raffaele.

There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss
of time and be less competitive by using other software. 
Specially Maya.  And that in my particular case I can hold up at

Softimage as long as there is an OS that runs it.

How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools
compared to Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there,
even if it is dead?

How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
Softimage does.

A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient. 
So there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.


The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped
running, It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of
plugins that will actually will make me work faster.

That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out
of date or useless now.

Just a thought.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane
mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>>:

Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively
instead, for both themselves and the community, and start
looking at other vendors?

We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it
might be, Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life.
You can tazer the corpse until it spasms, but it won't be life.

What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people
that made Soft what you loved as a software and as a
community, is make good use of your time to diversify your
skills and give support to platforms such as Fabric.

Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but
honestly, there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people
doing further damage to themselves by clinging to a corpse
after the damage done to the app and its history.
Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd
rather the people I've come

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

I also believe that Fabric Engine is going to rock.  I have been following
it very closely.  For me I just need one more high level step and give it a
try to integrate it into my personal workflow.

The only thing I thank Maya is that I got into scripting again, and it got
me to start scripting in Softimage to make some simple but usefull tools.

The last programming I did before, was in Turbo Pascal a long, long time
ago.



---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 22:55 GMT-06:00 Emilio Hernandez :

> Haha Stephen.  Reading your post it just happened the same to me with the
> Softiamge 3D transition to XSI.
>
> Until one day I uninstalled Softimge 3D for sure.  I started at XSI 3.0
>
> Glad to see I was not the only one.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 22:31 GMT-06:00 Stephen Davidson :
>
> I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with the
>> present interface, and I remember
>> postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for almost 3
>> years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
>> painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm
>> finally starting to play around with ICE
>> compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.
>>
>>  One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have
>> tried to learn other 3D Apps and
>> the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as I
>> am a freelancer and not on
>> corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on
>> the corporate dime)
>>
>> It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a bit
>> at a time, as needed for
>> projects.
>>
>> I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and
>> blowing in the wind for a commercial.
>> I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the basics
>> of the scene. I did a little
>> research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . Now,
>> through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
>> compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug
>> and play around a little, as
>> opposed to reinventing the wheel.
>>
>> I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable" in
>> the cockpit of Softimage.
>> Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, but
>> it is invested time, that I
>> am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be,
>> anyway? I must
>> admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.
>>
>> Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not
>> starting all over again.
>> Just my 2 (not TD) cents.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>>
>>> Not really Raffaele.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of
>>> time and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And
>>> that in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is
>>> an OS that runs it.
>>>
>>> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
>>> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>>>
>>> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
>>> Softimage does.
>>>
>>> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So
>>> there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>>>
>>> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped
>>> running, It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that
>>> will actually will make me work faster.
>>>
>>> That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of
>>> date or useless now.
>>>
>>> Just a thought.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane <
>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>:
>>>
>>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
 both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?

 We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
 Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
 until it spasms, but it won't be life.

 What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
 Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
 your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
 Fabric.

 Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
 there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
 themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
 history.
 Look at LW to see the 

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

Haha Stephen.  Reading your post it just happened the same to me with the
Softiamge 3D transition to XSI.

Until one day I uninstalled Softimge 3D for sure.  I started at XSI 3.0

Glad to see I was not the only one.

Cheers!



---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 22:31 GMT-06:00 Stephen Davidson :

> I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with the
> present interface, and I remember
> postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for almost 3
> years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
> painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm finally
> starting to play around with ICE
> compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.
>
> One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have tried
> to learn other 3D Apps and
> the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as I
> am a freelancer and not on
> corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on the
> corporate dime)
>
> It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a bit at
> a time, as needed for
> projects.
>
> I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and
> blowing in the wind for a commercial.
> I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the basics
> of the scene. I did a little
> research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . Now,
> through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
> compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug and
> play around a little, as
> opposed to reinventing the wheel.
>
> I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable" in
> the cockpit of Softimage.
> Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, but it
> is invested time, that I
> am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be,
> anyway? I must
> admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.
>
> Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not
> starting all over again.
> Just my 2 (not TD) cents.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>
>> Not really Raffaele.
>>
>> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of time
>> and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And that
>> in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is an OS
>> that runs it.
>>
>> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
>> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>>
>> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
>> Softimage does.
>>
>> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So
>> there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>>
>> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
>> It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
>> actually will make me work faster.
>>
>> That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of date
>> or useless now.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> ---
>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>>
>>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
>>> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>>
>>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>>> Fabric.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>>> history.
>>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>>> left of its userbase.
>>>
>>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>>> for you to properly learn on.
>>>
>>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Guys,

 Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
 are lots of awesome out 

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Stephen Davidson]

I have to agree with Emilio. I have over 10 years of experience with the
present interface, and I remember
postponing the transition from Softimage 3D to XS,I in 2000, for almost 3
years. I'm glad I did it now, but it was
painful. Now that I have a snappy render from Redshift 3D, and I'm finally
starting to play around with ICE
compounds, I really don't want to start that process all over again.

One of the reason that I have stuck with Softimage is because I have tried
to learn other 3D Apps and
the path is so painfully slow, and I need to get work done quickly, as I am
a freelancer and not on
corporate welfare (my term for being able to educate yourself while on the
corporate dime)

It is so much easier to add new tools (plugins and ICE compounds) a bit at
a time, as needed for
projects.

I will give a simple example. I needed to animate grass growing and blowing
in the wind for a commercial.
I already knew that strands might be a good way to accomplish the basics of
the scene. I did a little
research and found Zybrand Grass 3.0  . Now,
through the kindness of Zybrand Jacobs, I has a nice set of
compounds that helped me design something more custom to the job. Plug and
play around a little, as
opposed to reinventing the wheel.

I also know where all the "knobs and switches" are I am "comfortable" in
the cockpit of Softimage.
Maybe it is just a case of an old dog refusing to learn new tricks, but it
is invested time, that I
am not producing animation and making money. How bad can the SDK be,
anyway? I must
admit, I am clueless to that aspect, as I am not even a good TD.

Alok, I like you attitude. working with what we already have and not
starting all over again.
Just my 2 (not TD) cents.


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Not really Raffaele.
>
> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of time
> and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And that
> in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is an OS
> that runs it.
>
> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>
> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way Softimage
> does.
>
> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So there
> is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>
> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
> It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
> actually will make me work faster.
>
> That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of date
> or useless now.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane  >:
>
> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>
>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
>> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>
>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>> Fabric.
>>
>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>> history.
>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>> left of its userbase.
>>
>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>> for you to properly learn on.
>>
>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Guys,
>>>
>>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
>>> are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>>> community.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>>> same of other developers.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>>> please post it here.
>>>
>>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>>
>>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>>
>>>  Cheers !
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Andy Jones]

Not going to take a side here, but will merely point out that Fabric Engine
lets you have it both ways -- you can make new tools for XSI that will
still work in other packages with Splice.

You can also make useful core python libraries or shaders, which should
(mostly) be cross-package compatible.

I would also suggest that maybe in addition to a request for people to make
lots of new tools, maybe it's worth asking that people try to release some
tools that they already have kicking around.  I'm sure it would help out
some of those guys who are deciding to "stick it out."

I'm definitely under no delusions about sticking it out in Softimage
indefinitely, but if the two years or so we have will let me be more
strategic about which parts of the workflow get migrated to something else
at which times, I think that makes a lot of sense.  For example, if I
really want a better scene assembly tool, and I feel that building scripts
for it in Maya is a waste of time, I can potentially improve my future
prospects by moving off of Softimage at my own strategic pace, rather than
all at once on Autodesk's schedule.


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> I am not a blind Softimage fanatic.   I have been using Maya for three
> years from now for other reasons.  When I tried to switch entirley to Maya
> about 1 year ago, looking at this moment coming when last years rumors were
> just about the same,   I just couldn't.The time I need to spend in Maya
> to get the job done was in a 2:1 ratio.  And if I need to dig into the
> nodes sometimes a 4:1 ratio.
>
> I work in the advertising industry where deadlines are critical compared
> to a film.  I need to respond quick and be able to change stuff in no
> time.   That is what Softimage allows me.
>
> So if sticking to a deadware still makes me give the kind of service my
> clients are expecting, I will not because I will give my right arm for
> Softimage, it is becuase it allows me to pay bills and education for my son
> and live a descent life.
>
> I would have switched to other DCC tool without hesitate if I already
> found one that will make me work as I do, or better.
>
> And I will when it comes out.  Not before nor later.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:54 GMT-06:00 Martin Yara :
>
> I agree with Raffaele. I think it may be fine to complete your current
>> tool projects for SI, but starting new ones just doesn't make too much
>> sense. I'm not a TD (just a guy who script a little) but I'm planing to
>> finish and polish a few tools I have so I can use them meanwhile I have
>> some Softimage projects but that's it.
>>
>> I suggest to put your efforts in making Maya or whatever you chose, a
>> little Softimage like. That would be awesome.
>>
>> Personally I plan to increase my Maya scripting skills in the next
>> months, and hopefully try to make it less painful.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut
>>> down and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you
>>> with open arms :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
 People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
 pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
 for many years.

 I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used.
 I now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
 years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
 be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.

 Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
 continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
 well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.





 On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
 raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead,
> for both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>
> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the 
> corpse
> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>
> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
> Fabric.
>
> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
> there'd be no worse thin

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Martin Yara]

The point isn't if you continue to use SI or not. SI is still a valid
option for a few years. I will use it for modeling until Maya gets better
or Modo offers something really big.

But developing tools is different. It requires API knowledge that can't be
translated to another software, so increasing your Softimage programming
skills isn't a good idea.

In Advertising you don't need to deliver your data so it doesn't matter if
you use Softimage 3D as long as it looks good so you may not get the point.
Imagine that you have to deliver your data, and obviously Softimage
projects are going to disappear eventually. Would you continue to improve
your Softimage skills?

Martin



On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> I am not a blind Softimage fanatic.   I have been using Maya for three
> years from now for other reasons.  When I tried to switch entirley to Maya
> about 1 year ago, looking at this moment coming when last years rumors were
> just about the same,   I just couldn't.The time I need to spend in Maya
> to get the job done was in a 2:1 ratio.  And if I need to dig into the
> nodes sometimes a 4:1 ratio.
>
> I work in the advertising industry where deadlines are critical compared
> to a film.  I need to respond quick and be able to change stuff in no
> time.   That is what Softimage allows me.
>
> So if sticking to a deadware still makes me give the kind of service my
> clients are expecting, I will not because I will give my right arm for
> Softimage, it is becuase it allows me to pay bills and education for my son
> and live a descent life.
>
> I would have switched to other DCC tool without hesitate if I already
> found one that will make me work as I do, or better.
>
> And I will when it comes out.  Not before nor later.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:54 GMT-06:00 Martin Yara :
>
> I agree with Raffaele. I think it may be fine to complete your current
>> tool projects for SI, but starting new ones just doesn't make too much
>> sense. I'm not a TD (just a guy who script a little) but I'm planing to
>> finish and polish a few tools I have so I can use them meanwhile I have
>> some Softimage projects but that's it.
>>
>> I suggest to put your efforts in making Maya or whatever you chose, a
>> little Softimage like. That would be awesome.
>>
>> Personally I plan to increase my Maya scripting skills in the next
>> months, and hopefully try to make it less painful.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut
>>> down and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you
>>> with open arms :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
 People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
 pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
 for many years.

 I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used.
 I now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
 years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
 be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.

 Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
 continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
 well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.





 On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
 raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead,
> for both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>
> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the 
> corpse
> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>
> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
> Fabric.
>
> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage 
> to
> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and 
> its
> history.
> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into 
> what's
> left of its userbase.
>
> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

I am not a blind Softimage fanatic.   I have been using Maya for three
years from now for other reasons.  When I tried to switch entirley to Maya
about 1 year ago, looking at this moment coming when last years rumors were
just about the same,   I just couldn't.The time I need to spend in Maya
to get the job done was in a 2:1 ratio.  And if I need to dig into the
nodes sometimes a 4:1 ratio.

I work in the advertising industry where deadlines are critical compared to
a film.  I need to respond quick and be able to change stuff in no time.
That is what Softimage allows me.

So if sticking to a deadware still makes me give the kind of service my
clients are expecting, I will not because I will give my right arm for
Softimage, it is becuase it allows me to pay bills and education for my son
and live a descent life.

I would have switched to other DCC tool without hesitate if I already found
one that will make me work as I do, or better.

And I will when it comes out.  Not before nor later.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 21:54 GMT-06:00 Martin Yara :

> I agree with Raffaele. I think it may be fine to complete your current
> tool projects for SI, but starting new ones just doesn't make too much
> sense. I'm not a TD (just a guy who script a little) but I'm planing to
> finish and polish a few tools I have so I can use them meanwhile I have
> some Softimage projects but that's it.
>
> I suggest to put your efforts in making Maya or whatever you chose, a
> little Softimage like. That would be awesome.
>
> Personally I plan to increase my Maya scripting skills in the next months,
> and hopefully try to make it less painful.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut down
>> and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you with
>> open arms :)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>>
>>> Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
>>> People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
>>> pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
>>> for many years.
>>>
>>> I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used.
>>> I now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
>>> years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
>>> be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.
>>>
>>> Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
>>> continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
>>> well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead,
 for both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?

 We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
 Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
 until it spasms, but it won't be life.

 What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
 Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
 your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
 Fabric.

 Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
 there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
 themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
 history.
 Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
 people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
 left of its userbase.

 You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry
 and vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live,
 and you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind
 on for you to properly learn on.

 Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.


 On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi 
 wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
> are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
> community.
>
>
> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
> same of other developers.
>
> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
> please post it here.
>
> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>
> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly set

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Sorry, that's confirmation bias.
Can I ask if you're a developer and/or ever tried profiting from small time
dev work for Softimage? And that was BEFORE it was killed.
Of if you've seen what similar circumstances wrought upon LW developers who
didn't jump ship in time?

I'm a developer, intimately familiar with Softimage, its market and other
dev past efforts, and was familiar with LW and its community when shit went
down.

Your scenario is beyond unlikely. There already hardly is any market to
support 3rd party efforts outside of rendering engine and the rare
exceptional work of love such as Mootz'.

I understand, from an emotional point of view, where you come from, and
don't wish to insult you, but with nothing except the best interests of my
fellow TDs at heart I strongly recommend they instantly start diversifying,
lest they find themselves working for free or for peanuts for two years,
only to dead-end with a useless baggage of matured API knowledge at the end
of the term, when they could instead con-temporarily mature modern
skillsets and make themselves commercially viable at the same time.

You have the end user at heart with your please, and I can respect that. I
have my fellow engineers and TDs at heart, and am offering my advice to
them.

And with this I'm bowing out of this discussion.
Safe travels whichever way the reader decides to go.


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Sorry Raffael but this time I don't share your opinion and Sanskrit
> analogy.
>
> Softimage is still a perfect viable solution and devs can still make
> profit of us that will stay still a long time with Softimage until
> something better in all of its aspects comes out.
>
> I cannot give my self the luxury of buying a license of MODO to model, a
> license of Houding for particles or Animation, a license of Realflow
> (although I have one),  to do fluids that I can easily solve inside
> Softimage with Lagoa.  I cannot afford a dev that will give me a propietary
> toolset for the things that are missing at Maya out of the box, and that I
> have already spent a lot of time scripting in Maya to get the work done or
> searching for free scripts in the web.
>
> That will make me be more expensive and sacrifice overhead to maintain my
> market rates.
>
> I rather prefer to pay for this new tools that will enhance my workflow
> inside Softimage.
>
> So if there are devs that are trully commited to others like me.  Why are
> you discouraging them to still make a profit on what we need.
>
> Not all of the DCC market is big studios with robust pipelines.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:37 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane  >:
>
> If you're a Softimage user, and plan to stick to it, which in many cases
>> is a perfectly viable strategy, go for it. Tag along.
>> However, if you're a TD and your livelyhood depends on hired work, I very
>> strongly recommend you amend mistakes you might have made in not
>> diversifying before, and start working on something that has a chance to
>> net you work past the next few months.
>>
>> It's easy for people who benefit from TDs' work to push for a "keep Soft
>> alive" movement, but to those whose livelihood depends on providing others
>> with tools and support, I suggest they don't make the mistake of letting
>> their emotions have the best of them leading them to beating a dead horse
>> until inevitable unemployment. If you want to flip the finger at Autodesk
>> in the process take your skills to Fabric, or Houdini, and requalify
>> yourself. It doesn't take that long for a proper TD to learn a new
>> platform, days to weeks at most with proper drive and dedication.
>> If you want to reduce risk and face a ripe, if a bit overcrowded, market
>> right away, take your efforts to Maya.
>>
>> But for the sake of people's livelihood, don't waste your time developing
>> free tools for deadware when you could be making an indirect, or even
>> direct, profit out of that time. If you want to spend time catering to
>> something dead learn Sanskrit.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>>
>>> Not really Raffaele.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of
>>> time and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And
>>> that in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is
>>> an OS that runs it.
>>>
>>> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
>>> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>>>
>>> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
>>> Softimage does.
>>>
>>> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So
>>> there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>>>
>>> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped
>>> running, It still runs very good

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Martin Yara]

I agree with Raffaele. I think it may be fine to complete your current tool
projects for SI, but starting new ones just doesn't make too much sense.
I'm not a TD (just a guy who script a little) but I'm planing to finish and
polish a few tools I have so I can use them meanwhile I have some Softimage
projects but that's it.

I suggest to put your efforts in making Maya or whatever you chose, a
little Softimage like. That would be awesome.

Personally I plan to increase my Maya scripting skills in the next months,
and hopefully try to make it less painful.

Martin



On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut down
> and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you with
> open arms :)
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>
>> Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
>> People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
>> pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
>> for many years.
>>
>> I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used. I
>> now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
>> years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
>> be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.
>>
>> Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
>> continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
>> well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>>
>>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
>>> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>>
>>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>>> Fabric.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>>> history.
>>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>>> left of its userbase.
>>>
>>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>>> for you to properly learn on.
>>>
>>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Guys,

 Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
 are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
 community.


 I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
 same of other developers.

 If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
 please post it here.

 Developers please feel free to take on this projects.

 If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like
 redmine ticket system), it will be great.

  Cheers !

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
>>> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Alok Gandhi]

Raff, from livelihood point of view , I strongly agree with you. Nobody
should live in the dreamworld and cling to the idea that they can find
employment as Soft TD in the coming years. Wheels have already started to
turn I think in big studio since yesterday. I am sure during the past 24
hours, a lot of Tech Meetings must have been held at the studios using soft
in their pipeline.

I stand with you in advocating "learn-new-earn-bread".

Also one should try to be as diverse in their technical skills as possible
in current state of our industry. Thing are changing quickly and there is a
strong demand for people who can have multiple skills.




On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut down
> and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you with
> open arms :)
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>
>> Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
>> People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
>> pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
>> for many years.
>>
>> I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used. I
>> now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
>> years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
>> be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.
>>
>> Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
>> continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
>> well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>>
>>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
>>> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>>
>>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>>> Fabric.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>>> history.
>>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>>> left of its userbase.
>>>
>>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>>> for you to properly learn on.
>>>
>>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Guys,

 Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
 are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
 community.


 I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
 same of other developers.

 If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
 please post it here.

 Developers please feel free to take on this projects.

 If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like
 redmine ticket system), it will be great.

  Cheers !

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
>>> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>



--

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

Sorry Raffael but this time I don't share your opinion and Sanskrit analogy.

Softimage is still a perfect viable solution and devs can still make profit
of us that will stay still a long time with Softimage until something
better in all of its aspects comes out.

I cannot give my self the luxury of buying a license of MODO to model, a
license of Houding for particles or Animation, a license of Realflow
(although I have one),  to do fluids that I can easily solve inside
Softimage with Lagoa.  I cannot afford a dev that will give me a propietary
toolset for the things that are missing at Maya out of the box, and that I
have already spent a lot of time scripting in Maya to get the work done or
searching for free scripts in the web.

That will make me be more expensive and sacrifice overhead to maintain my
market rates.

I rather prefer to pay for this new tools that will enhance my workflow
inside Softimage.

So if there are devs that are trully commited to others like me.  Why are
you discouraging them to still make a profit on what we need.

Not all of the DCC market is big studios with robust pipelines.

My 2 cents.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 21:37 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane :

> If you're a Softimage user, and plan to stick to it, which in many cases
> is a perfectly viable strategy, go for it. Tag along.
> However, if you're a TD and your livelyhood depends on hired work, I very
> strongly recommend you amend mistakes you might have made in not
> diversifying before, and start working on something that has a chance to
> net you work past the next few months.
>
> It's easy for people who benefit from TDs' work to push for a "keep Soft
> alive" movement, but to those whose livelihood depends on providing others
> with tools and support, I suggest they don't make the mistake of letting
> their emotions have the best of them leading them to beating a dead horse
> until inevitable unemployment. If you want to flip the finger at Autodesk
> in the process take your skills to Fabric, or Houdini, and requalify
> yourself. It doesn't take that long for a proper TD to learn a new
> platform, days to weeks at most with proper drive and dedication.
> If you want to reduce risk and face a ripe, if a bit overcrowded, market
> right away, take your efforts to Maya.
>
> But for the sake of people's livelihood, don't waste your time developing
> free tools for deadware when you could be making an indirect, or even
> direct, profit out of that time. If you want to spend time catering to
> something dead learn Sanskrit.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
>
>> Not really Raffaele.
>>
>> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of time
>> and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And that
>> in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is an OS
>> that runs it.
>>
>> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
>> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>>
>> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way
>> Softimage does.
>>
>> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So
>> there is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>>
>> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
>> It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
>> actually will make me work faster.
>>
>> That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of date
>> or useless now.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> ---
>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>>
>>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be,
>>> Soft is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>>
>>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>>> Fabric.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>>> history.
>>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>>> left of its userbase.
>>>
>>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>>> vendor

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Then go for it. The guys who left the industry when Soft|3D was shut down
and both Lightwave users still writing in LScript will welcome you with
open arms :)


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:

> Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
> People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
> pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
> for many years.
>
> I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used. I
> now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
> years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
> be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.
>
> Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
> continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
> well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>
>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
>> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>
>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>> Fabric.
>>
>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>> history.
>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>> left of its userbase.
>>
>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>> for you to properly learn on.
>>
>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Guys,
>>>
>>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
>>> are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>>> community.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>>> same of other developers.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>>> please post it here.
>>>
>>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>>
>>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>>
>>>  Cheers !
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
>> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>>
>
>
>
> --
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Raffaele Fragapane]

If you're a Softimage user, and plan to stick to it, which in many cases is
a perfectly viable strategy, go for it. Tag along.
However, if you're a TD and your livelyhood depends on hired work, I very
strongly recommend you amend mistakes you might have made in not
diversifying before, and start working on something that has a chance to
net you work past the next few months.

It's easy for people who benefit from TDs' work to push for a "keep Soft
alive" movement, but to those whose livelihood depends on providing others
with tools and support, I suggest they don't make the mistake of letting
their emotions have the best of them leading them to beating a dead horse
until inevitable unemployment. If you want to flip the finger at Autodesk
in the process take your skills to Fabric, or Houdini, and requalify
yourself. It doesn't take that long for a proper TD to learn a new
platform, days to weeks at most with proper drive and dedication.
If you want to reduce risk and face a ripe, if a bit overcrowded, market
right away, take your efforts to Maya.

But for the sake of people's livelihood, don't waste your time developing
free tools for deadware when you could be making an indirect, or even
direct, profit out of that time. If you want to spend time catering to
something dead learn Sanskrit.


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Not really Raffaele.
>
> There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of time
> and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And that
> in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is an OS
> that runs it.
>
> How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
> Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?
>
> How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way Softimage
> does.
>
> A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So there
> is a market IMHO that will get this tools.
>
> The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
> It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
> actually will make me work faster.
>
> That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of date
> or useless now.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane  >:
>
> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
>> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>>
>> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
>> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
>> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>>
>> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made
>> Soft what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of
>> your time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as
>> Fabric.
>>
>> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
>> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
>> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
>> history.
>> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
>> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
>> left of its userbase.
>>
>> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
>> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
>> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
>> for you to properly learn on.
>>
>> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Guys,
>>>
>>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there
>>> are lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>>> community.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>>> same of other developers.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>>> please post it here.
>>>
>>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>>
>>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>>
>>>  Cheers !
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
>> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>>
>
>


-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Alok Gandhi]

Raff, Well I would like to humbly disagree with your 'corspe' analogy.
People will still continue to use Soft. Maybe not big shops and huge
pipelines but those small shops and lone artists that have been using it
for many years.

I think AD stopping development does not mean that it will not be used. I
now for myself that I will use it to get some odd jobs done. For a few
years, I was palnning to a do a personal animated short, I think now I will
be starting on that project in a few months. It will be all soft.

Of course, I have developed for Maya, Houdini and Nuke as well and will
continue to do so. Fabric is awesome and I want to contribute there as
well. But that does not mean  I will abandon doing things in soft.





On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>
> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>
> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made Soft
> what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of your
> time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as Fabric.
>
> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
> history.
> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
> left of its userbase.
>
> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
> for you to properly learn on.
>
> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
>> lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>> community.
>>
>>
>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>> same of other developers.
>>
>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>> please post it here.
>>
>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>
>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>
>>  Cheers !
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>



--

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

Not really Raffaele.

There are a lot of us that switching to other tool will mean loss of time
and be less competitive by using other software.  Specially Maya.  And that
in my particular case I can hold up at Softimage as long as there is an OS
that runs it.

How far can you improve your workflow with other DCC tools compared to
Softimage, if Softimage is still the best tool there, even if it is dead?

How much development are you expecting of Maya to behave the way Softimage
does.

A fresh toolset will make a "dead" software even more efficient.  So there
is a market IMHO that will get this tools.

The problem with Combustion is not that it was dumped or stopped running,
It still runs very good.  The problem was the lack of plugins that will
actually will make me work faster.

That is why I turned into other comp apps.  Not because it is out of date
or useless now.

Just a thought.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 21:18 GMT-06:00 Raffaele Fragapane :

> Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
> both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?
>
> We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
> is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
> until it spasms, but it won't be life.
>
> What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made Soft
> what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of your
> time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as Fabric.
>
> Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
> there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
> themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
> history.
> Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
> people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
> left of its userbase.
>
> You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
> vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
> you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
> for you to properly learn on.
>
> Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:
>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
>> lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>> community.
>>
>>
>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>> same of other developers.
>>
>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>> please post it here.
>>
>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>
>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>
>>  Cheers !
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Alok Gandhi]

Great Emilio

Do let me know what you have in mind. Of Course one can go only as deep as
the SDK can let. But still, I have seen and done things which were
apparently impossible but with little zest ans passion and some clever
workarounds a lot can be acheived.


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> AWSOME Alok!  This is attitude!
>
> I have a few ideas that will really can improve the workflow.   I don't
> know how far can you get under the hood to start switching cables.  Count
> me in for any alpha/beta testing.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-05 21:05 GMT-06:00 Alok Gandhi :
>
> Hey Guys,
>>
>> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
>> lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
>> community.
>>
>>
>> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the
>> same of other developers.
>>
>> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need,
>> please post it here.
>>
>> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>>
>> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
>> ticket system), it will be great.
>>
>>  Cheers !
>>
>
>


--

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Can I humbly suggest TDs spend their time more productively instead, for
both themselves and the community, and start looking at other vendors?

We can wish upon a star all we want, but, as hurtful as it might be, Soft
is dead and will not be brought back to life. You can tazer the corpse
until it spasms, but it won't be life.

What you COULD do, however, for the sake of the same people that made Soft
what you loved as a software and as a community, is make good use of your
time to diversify your skills and give support to platforms such as Fabric.

Hopefully I won't get flamed or misunderstood for this, but honestly,
there'd be no worse thing to see than seeing people doing further damage to
themselves by clinging to a corpse after the damage done to the app and its
history.
Look at LW to see the depth of sadness this can get to. I'd rather the
people I've come to know and respect on this list don't devolve into what's
left of its userbase.

You also get to make more of a difference for the future of industry and
vendors if you spend your time on a project that has a chance to live, and
you get to learn a lot of things that Soft is entirely too far behind on
for you to properly learn on.

Sorry, might sound cold, but it's a helluva lot more practical.


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Alok Gandhi wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
> lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
> community.
>
>
> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the same
> of other developers.
>
> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need, please
> post it here.
>
> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>
> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
> ticket system), it will be great.
>
> Cheers !
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Emilio Hernandez]

AWSOME Alok!  This is attitude!

I have a few ideas that will really can improve the workflow.   I don't
know how far can you get under the hood to start switching cables.  Count
me in for any alpha/beta testing.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-05 21:05 GMT-06:00 Alok Gandhi :

> Hey Guys,
>
> Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
> lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
> community.
>
>
> I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the same
> of other developers.
>
> If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need, please
> post it here.
>
> Developers please feel free to take on this projects.
>
> If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
> ticket system), it will be great.
>
> Cheers !
>

Let's Rock Soft with more love

[Alok Gandhi]

Hey Guys,

Calling out all the Soft Tool developers/ TDs out there. I know there are
lots of awesome out there for Soft but let's create more tools for the
community.


I am willing to devote my time to develop more tools and will ask the same
of other developers.

If anyone has a request / idea for a Tool from Soft that they need, please
post it here.

Developers please feel free to take on this projects.

If anyone likes this idea and can quickly setup a web page (like redmine
ticket system), it will be great.

Cheers !