Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
+1 Raff none of us can deny that the power is there just under the hood, however taping into that power requires sacrificing liberal amounts of goats. In the last particle presentation for modo 701, it also seemed to give you the ability to loop a node back on itself. On 16 July 2014 04:57, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: To be fair, I wish Soft had the same loops that don't make sense. Maya nodes are able to inspect and express the scene graph to a much higher extent than it's ever been possible in Soft. Things like the parent inverse transform being able to feed back into a node affecting the owner of that attribute are shortcuts, and convenient ones at that. Introspection and outwards inspection from nodes have always been considerably ahead of Soft's historically painfully limited operators. It's a massive mistake to confuse the NE with ICE. They serve completely different purposes past the superficial and cosmetic similarities, and are good at completely different things. Maya isn't really stupid, counter-intuitive or useless in those regards, neither it is destructive. What Maya's issue is, by and large, is how F'ing poor the toolkit out of the box is. You have a ton of tiny, overly complicated minutiae to deal with that requires you develop knowledge and memory of ridiculously convoluted processes that are at odds with how the software operates, and you have a solid (if aging) and extensive platform when it comes to scene handling. It completely misses everything inbetween, so if you can't fill that gap (and on average commercial plugins and free scripts do a piss poor job of it) yourself, you're up a creek without a paddle and a tidal wave coming your way. This is in the context of the scene graph. When it comes to proceduralism of a certain type, higher level management of the scene and so on, Maya is a barren wasteland where blood thirsty rapists and serial killers roam free. You need to build a lot of stuff, a lot of it to an extremely low level, to make it barely passable (passes anyone?) On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :) G
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I think we should draw a line to show the parenting in the Maya Node Editor, that would make transform vs object make more sense, something we're not doing. For loops... actually Maya and XSI have similar in architecture, and XSI's scene graph is full of loops as well. Every operator, like the moveop, is an operator that reads and writes back to the same object, so it's a loop. I recall the kinestate to be particularly hairy. We've kept all that kitchen stuff hidden under the hood in XSI. It's just not showable: a trivial operator like the moveop has half a dozen connections, a hidden cluster, and it just gets more complicated from there. The maya dg is a lot more simple, but it still isn't designed be directly used, and the hypergraph/node editor are more debugging tools than authoring tools. Bifrost will be designed for authoring. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :)
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
If you ever decide to start showing the DAG side of the graph in the NE, please make sure it's a toggle like in the HG (and possibly a better and more extensive one :) ) and not a mandatory addition to the graphing. Shapes being an exception as they are unique the only one-to-many DAG item due to instancing. I actually abuse the NE as an authoring platform for rigging a lot, and would rather see work done for it to become cleaner and more uniformly responsive in a number of situations for that, not see it more cluttered, or fall by the side in favor of bifrost getting all the love. Bifrost has a shot at being an ICE replacement, but ICE and authoring of that kind works well within boundaries, the NE does a better job of working across the whole scene and operating the two are completely different things with different problems to solve and factor making them intuitive. The HS, and the connection view in the HG, however, need to die already and see all the love transferred to the NE :p On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: I think we should draw a line to show the parenting in the Maya Node Editor, that would make transform vs object make more sense, something we're not doing. For loops... actually Maya and XSI have similar in architecture, and XSI's scene graph is full of loops as well. Every operator, like the moveop, is an operator that reads and writes back to the same object, so it's a loop. I recall the kinestate to be particularly hairy. We've kept all that kitchen stuff hidden under the hood in XSI. It's just not showable: a trivial operator like the moveop has half a dozen connections, a hidden cluster, and it just gets more complicated from there. The maya dg is a lot more simple, but it still isn't designed be directly used, and the hypergraph/node editor are more debugging tools than authoring tools. Bifrost will be designed for authoring. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :) -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
That was always my notion too. Just imagine an ICE graph without Get Data and Set Data nodes and replacing them with actual connections from/to the main ICE node. You'd get lots of loops, making the the graph more descriptive but also harder to read, besides exploding the number of input and output connections on the main ICE node. I think we should draw a line to show the parenting in the Maya Node Editor, that would make transform vs object make more sense, something we're not doing. For loops... actually Maya and XSI have similar in architecture, and XSI's scene graph is full of loops as well. Every operator, like the moveop, is an operator that reads and writes back to the same object, so it's a loop. I recall the kinestate to be particularly hairy. We've kept all that kitchen stuff hidden under the hood in XSI. It's just not showable: a trivial operator like the moveop has half a dozen connections, a hidden cluster, and it just gets more complicated from there. The maya dg is a lot more simple, but it still isn't designed be directly used, and the hypergraph/node editor are more debugging tools than authoring tools. Bifrost will be designed for authoring. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :) -- - Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at - Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3 A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231 www.keyvis.at This email and its attachments are confidential and for the recipient only
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
The biggest problem that I have with the self-loops is that it is all too easy to accidentally disconnect one when re-arranging the nodes and not notice that you have done so. Additionally, the connection popup for additional channels is annoying tedious; I'd like most of the channels that are there cloistered away so that the NE does not become more chaotic to use, but always having to go there for something simple and straightforward as an input 2 all the time is, at worst, enough to practically make a body go postal, and, at best, enough to suck what little life is left out of the fun of working with Maya. The rigs that I've been making in Maya lately have heavy usage of the NE and the fact that every node appears in the channel box is both scary and irritating to animators. -=T=-
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
If there was better and more extensive handling of AE templates that transferred to the NE so much of that could be obviated, things like being able to set flags for filtering, locking connection/disconnection and having ordering respected, and being able to properly default them. That's kind of a theme with Maya, there is a lot you can do to ease the pain, but you all too frequently need to do it over and over again, or only goes the easy 80% and not the hard final 20%, so in the end you don't bother all that often... On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:06 AM, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest problem that I have with the self-loops is that it is all too easy to accidentally disconnect one when re-arranging the nodes and not notice that you have done so. Additionally, the connection popup for additional channels is annoying tedious; I'd like most of the channels that are there cloistered away so that the NE does not become more chaotic to use, but always having to go there for something simple and straightforward as an input 2 all the time is, at worst, enough to practically make a body go postal, and, at best, enough to suck what little life is left out of the fun of working with Maya. The rigs that I've been making in Maya lately have heavy usage of the NE and the fact that every node appears in the channel box is both scary and irritating to animators. -=T=- -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Maya 2015 Node Editor
Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Yep, it's called the Node Editor (to make the difference with the Hypergraph and Hypershade). As to improved... Well, I guess you already found out for yourself. It's basically a new look with the same old workflows from 20 years ago (ok, not really... Now you can drag connection wires instead of using the Connection Editor... Yay). Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:20 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
It is there to show you just how old and useless Maya is. So far I've only found one cool thing it can do. You can re-connect expressions with ituuhhm yes.. it realy blows the mind -_- The more I learn, the angrier I get. G On 2014/07/15 03:00 PM, Sergio Mucino wrote: Yep, it's called the Node Editor (to make the difference with the Hypergraph and Hypershade). As to improved... Well, I guess you already found out for yourself. It's basically a new look with the same old workflows from 20 years ago (ok, not really... Now you can drag connection wires instead of using the Connection Editor... Yay). Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:20 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Hope you like grey on fucking grey ! On 15 July 2014 15:17, Peter Agg peter@googlemail.com wrote: To be fair it's easier than using the Hypergraph + Connection Editor if you're used to modern software. But yeah, it doesn't offer anything new or anything. It's the same workflow with lipstick on. On 15 July 2014 14:59, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: It is there to show you just how old and useless Maya is. So far I've only found one cool thing it can do. You can re-connect expressions with ituuhhm yes.. it realy blows the mind -_- The more I learn, the angrier I get. G On 2014/07/15 03:00 PM, Sergio Mucino wrote: Yep, it's called the Node Editor (to make the difference with the Hypergraph and Hypershade). As to improved... Well, I guess you already found out for yourself. It's basically a new look with the same old workflows from 20 years ago (ok, not really... Now you can drag connection wires instead of using the Connection Editor... Yay). Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:20 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Peter Agg schreef op 15-7-2014 16:17: It's the same workflow with lipstick on. Hmm, lipstick should at least improve the situation cosmetically. The node editor doesn't even accomplish that... Greetz Leendert AKA Hirazi Blue -- Leendert A. Hartog AKA Hirazi Blue Administrator NOT the owner of si-community.com
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
To be fair it's easier than using the Hypergraph + Connection Editor if you're used to modern software. But yeah, it doesn't offer anything new or anything. It's the same workflow with lipstick on. On 15 July 2014 14:59, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: It is there to show you just how old and useless Maya is. So far I've only found one cool thing it can do. You can re-connect expressions with ituuhhm yes.. it realy blows the mind -_- The more I learn, the angrier I get. G On 2014/07/15 03:00 PM, Sergio Mucino wrote: Yep, it's called the Node Editor (to make the difference with the Hypergraph and Hypershade). As to improved... Well, I guess you already found out for yourself. It's basically a new look with the same old workflows from 20 years ago (ok, not really... Now you can drag connection wires instead of using the Connection Editor... Yay). Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 4:20 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric
RE: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Yeah, I don't think much was done to the Node Editor for 2015, other than some fixes and minor tweaks. It's by no means a complete replacement for some Maya features yet, because you can't properly graph things like the Hypershade, Hypergraph, and Bifrost.yet. :-) Eric, you need to get on the Beta. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Mootz Sent: 15 July 2014 09:20 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Maya 2015 Node Editor Hey guys, Just installed Maya 2015, because I need its SDK to compile some plugins. Out of curiosity I took a look at the new version, especially the node editor. A few weeks ago I heard or read that they had improved the node editor, but from what I saw it is the same unusable piece of crap as before... not even close to the ICE Tree editor in Softimage. Did I miss something?? Is there a new node editor in Maya 2015 or not? Thanks! Eric attachment: winmail.dat
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Possibly , make it Intuititive, Useful but mostly Meaninful from a workflow point of view Ie make it be where people want to go in order to get stuff done in a quick, visually helpful manner. On 2014/07/15, 5:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I don¹t think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn¹t mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo¹s nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Text and color coding the nodes is good, icons not so much, an icon needs to be learnt, text and color coding impart directly the meaning of the node. icons can be good too, but in maya you have icons that look like other icons, and it is confusing as all hell On 15 July 2014 16:29, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Really Angus ? do tell of these Modo nodes :) On 15 July 2014 16:47, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: I don靖 think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn靖 mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo零 nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
For those folks who haven’t seen them in action you can have a look at the videos at http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/latest-version/ Its like a great playpen. If you want to can drag what your interested into the workspace and just start exploring, To me it makes me want to use them , rather then trying to avoid it. From: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 at 5:52 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor Really Angus ? do tell of these Modo nodes :) On 15 July 2014 16:47, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.zamailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: I don靖 think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn靖 mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo零 nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.commailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.commailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Modo has the nicest schematic view I've had the pleasure of using, after ICE. It still needs some work (it lacks any form of layout and management tools), but I believe this will change soon. Modo's schematic is based on workspaces. These are basically viewports that provide a view into a part of the scene. You can drag anything you need into them, and see only relevant nodes for whatever you're working on. You can have as many workspaces as you need. You can graph node relationships, shaders, particle simulations, dynamic simulations, etc. Modo still lacks a bit in support for certain types of nodes (not much available in the matrix department), and there is no exposure yet for mesh data, but as soon as that is supported, you'll be able to do a lot of what's available in ICE. I can already do everything that I could do with ICE kinematics (considering the limitations... like no matrix math nodes), which is a lot. I've actually been replicating some of ICE's compounds as Assemblies in Modo (Modo's term for a compound), I have a bunch of videos I've been doing in the past few months, and in a lot of them, I use the schematic view. So, if you're curious, you can check some more here... https://vimeo.com/maxtd/videos Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: For those folks who haven’t seen them in action you can have a look at the videos at http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/latest-version/ Its like a great playpen. If you want to can drag what your interested into the workspace and just start exploring, To me it makes me want to use them , rather then trying to avoid it. From: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 at 5:52 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor Really Angus ? do tell of these Modo nodes :) On 15 July 2014 16:47, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: I don靖 think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn靖 mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo零 nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Regarding Modo, found this site: http://www.sabertoothproductions.com/late-night-animator-blog/2014/6/3/welcome-to-the-late-night-animator-blog The river-eco system is very nice :-) Rob \/-\/\/ On 15-7-2014 18:32, Serch Mucino wrote: Modo has the nicest schematic view I've had the pleasure of using, after ICE. It still needs some work (it lacks any form of layout and management tools), but I believe this will change soon. Modo's schematic is based on workspaces. These are basically viewports that provide a view into a part of the scene. You can drag anything you need into them, and see only relevant nodes for whatever you're working on. You can have as many workspaces as you need. You can graph node relationships, shaders, particle simulations, dynamic simulations, etc. Modo still lacks a bit in support for certain types of nodes (not much available in the matrix department), and there is no exposure yet for mesh data, but as soon as that is supported, you'll be able to do a lot of what's available in ICE. I can already do everything that I could do with ICE kinematics (considering the limitations... like no matrix math nodes), which is a lot. I've actually been replicating some of ICE's compounds as Assemblies in Modo (Modo's term for a compound), I have a bunch of videos I've been doing in the past few months, and in a lot of them, I use the schematic view. So, if you're curious, you can check some more here... https://vimeo.com/maxtd/videos Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: For those folks who haven’t seen them in action you can have a look at the videos at http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/latest-version/ Its like a great playpen. If you want to can drag what your interested into the workspace and just start exploring, To me it makes me want to use them , rather then trying to avoid it. From: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 at 5:52 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor Really Angus ? do tell of these Modo nodes :) On 15 July 2014 16:47, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: I don靖 think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn靖 mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo零 nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com mailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Actually Eric i asked a little while back on the modo forum, the best place for modo c++ related help and information, turns out there is a Skype channel modo Community SDK Developers Channel. it is possible to get an invite by posting on the modo foundry forum :) On 15 July 2014 17:59, Rob Wuijster r...@casema.nl wrote: Regarding Modo, found this site: http://www.sabertoothproductions.com/late-night-animator-blog/2014/6/3/welcome-to-the-late-night-animator-blog The river-eco system is very nice :-) Rob \/-\/\/ On 15-7-2014 18:32, Serch Mucino wrote: Modo has the nicest schematic view I've had the pleasure of using, after ICE. It still needs some work (it lacks any form of layout and management tools), but I believe this will change soon. Modo's schematic is based on workspaces. These are basically viewports that provide a view into a part of the scene. You can drag anything you need into them, and see only relevant nodes for whatever you're working on. You can have as many workspaces as you need. You can graph node relationships, shaders, particle simulations, dynamic simulations, etc. Modo still lacks a bit in support for certain types of nodes (not much available in the matrix department), and there is no exposure yet for mesh data, but as soon as that is supported, you'll be able to do a lot of what's available in ICE. I can already do everything that I could do with ICE kinematics (considering the limitations... like no matrix math nodes), which is a lot. I've actually been replicating some of ICE's compounds as Assemblies in Modo (Modo's term for a compound), I have a bunch of videos I've been doing in the past few months, and in a lot of them, I use the schematic view. So, if you're curious, you can check some more here... https://vimeo.com/maxtd/videos Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: For those folks who haven’t seen them in action you can have a look at the videos at http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/latest-version/ Its like a great playpen. If you want to can drag what your interested into the workspace and just start exploring, To me it makes me want to use them , rather then trying to avoid it. From: Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 at 5:52 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor Really Angus ? do tell of these Modo nodes :) On 15 July 2014 16:47, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: I don靖 think that is a solution at all. Ice has a workflow and the ice node editor compliments it very well. It doesn靖 mean its the right thing for the maya Node editor though. The main issue in Maya is actually defining what it is would be useful for people to be spending their time doing in a new Node editor 2.0 That been said , working in Modo零 nodes are a absolute joy ;) On 2014/07/15, 5:29 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: well, you could make it work like ice :P On 2014/07/15 05:07 PM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
well how many times guys frmo AD on forums, no need to mentioned names, were praising how maya is sooo great for development opened bla bla... and how many times people said to them WHO GIVES sh about that when we can;t use it normaly. intuitive, nice clean and easy to work with... having all shiny things and no way to control it nicely means nothing On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Defining better would be quite an exercise so if the question is serious I would invite Autodesk to form a product experts team, bring the best XSI artists to the table and formalise how Maya should evolve to make it usable. I would happily be part of it if you really are interested but I will charge the normal daily rate as it will take too much of my time. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:22, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
It's a public channel, not sure an invite is required. modo Community SDK Developers Channel On 7/15/2014 12:17 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Actually Eric i asked a little while back on the modo forum, the best place for modo c++ related help and information, turns out there is a Skype channel modo Community SDK Developers Channel. it is possible to get an invite by posting on the modo foundry forum :) On 15 July 2014 17:59, Rob Wuijster r...@casema.nl mailto:r...@casema.nl wrote: Regarding Modo, found this site: http://www.sabertoothproductions.com/late-night-animator-blog/2014/6/3/welcome-to-the-late-night-animator-blog The river-eco system is very nice :-) Rob \/-\/\/ On 15-7-2014 18:32, Serch Mucino wrote: Modo has the nicest schematic view I've had the pleasure of using, after ICE. It still needs some work (it lacks any form of layout and management tools), but I believe this will change soon. Modo's schematic is based on workspaces. These are basically viewports that provide a view into a part of the scene. You can drag anything you need into them, and see only relevant nodes for whatever you're working on. You can have as many workspaces as you need. You can graph node relationships, shaders, particle simulations, dynamic simulations, etc. Modo still lacks a bit in support for certain types of nodes (not much available in the matrix department), and there is no exposure yet for mesh data, but as soon as that is supported, you'll be able to do a lot of what's available in ICE. I can already do everything that I could do with ICE kinematics (considering the limitations... like no matrix math nodes), which is a lot. I've actually been replicating some of ICE's compounds as Assemblies in Modo (Modo's term for a compound), I have a bunch of videos I've been doing in the past few months, and in a lot of them, I use the schematic view. So, if you're curious, you can check some more here... https://vimeo.com/maxtd/videos Sergio Mucino
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
As they said so many times so far they don;t have intention to make Maya more into Softimage On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Defining better would be quite an exercise so if the question is serious I would invite Autodesk to form a product experts team, bring the best XSI artists to the table and formalise how Maya should evolve to make it usable. I would happily be part of it if you really are interested but I will charge the normal daily rate as it will take too much of my time. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:22, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I didn't say the purpose was to make Maya like Softimage. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:53, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: As they said so many times so far they don;t have intention to make Maya more into Softimage On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Defining better would be quite an exercise so if the question is serious I would invite Autodesk to form a product experts team, bring the best XSI artists to the table and formalise how Maya should evolve to make it usable. I would happily be part of it if you really are interested but I will charge the normal daily rate as it will take too much of my time. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:22, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
The biggest misconception that I've been met with while interacting with long time Maya users about changing things is that they think I'm trying to turn Maya into Softimage, when in reality, I know that the workflow in Maya is slow and archaic and can be more efficient / improved. I really don't think they realize how inefficient they actually are and are comfortable in their learned way to work. Eric T. On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:11:32 PM, Jordi Bares wrote: I didn't say the purpose was to make Maya like Softimage. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
We Softies are all one-eyed men... On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: The biggest misconception that I've been met with while interacting with long time Maya users about changing things is that they think I'm trying to turn Maya into Softimage, when in reality, I know that the workflow in Maya is slow and archaic and can be more efficient / improved. I really don't think they realize how inefficient they actually are and are comfortable in their learned way to work. Eric T. On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:11:32 PM, Jordi Bares wrote: I didn't say the purpose was to make Maya like Softimage. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
That’s an image that is gonna linger ;) From: Ed Manning etmth...@gmail.commailto:etmth...@gmail.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 at 8:23 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor We Softies are all one-eyed men... On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.commailto:ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: The biggest misconception that I've been met with while interacting with long time Maya users about changing things is that they think I'm trying to turn Maya into Softimage, when in reality, I know that the workflow in Maya is slow and archaic and can be more efficient / improved. I really don't think they realize how inefficient they actually are and are comfortable in their learned way to work. Eric T. On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:11:32 PM, Jordi Bares wrote: I didn't say the purpose was to make Maya like Softimage. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I'd prefer switching to Povray rather having to go any AD product. And that's better if they don't integrate any SI intelligence in Maya. There are nicer companies out there that are willing to do proper work. Le 15/07/2014 19:53, Mirko Jankovic a écrit : As they said so many times so far they don;t have intention to make Maya more into Softimage On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Defining better would be quite an exercise so if the question is serious I would invite Autodesk to form a product experts team, bring the best XSI artists to the table and formalise how Maya should evolve to make it usable. I would happily be part of it if you really are interested but I will charge the normal daily rate as it will take too much of my time. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:22, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com mailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com mailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? On 15 July 2014 19:16, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: I'd prefer switching to Povray rather having to go any AD product. And that's better if they don't integrate any SI intelligence in Maya. There are nicer companies out there that are willing to do proper work. Le 15/07/2014 19:53, Mirko Jankovic a écrit : As they said so many times so far they don;t have intention to make Maya more into Softimage On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Defining better would be quite an exercise so if the question is serious I would invite Autodesk to form a product experts team, bring the best XSI artists to the table and formalise how Maya should evolve to make it usable. I would happily be part of it if you really are interested but I will charge the normal daily rate as it will take too much of my time. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 15 Jul 2014, at 18:22, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't /have /to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ?
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't *have *to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ?
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Yes Data type socket color scheme would bring us one step closer to home :) On 15 July 2014 20:03, Serch Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't *have *to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ?
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Ah that's true! I forgot about that! Good reminder... On 7/15/2014 2:03 PM, Serch Mucino wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com mailto:tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't /have /to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? -- Signature
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?, On 15 July 2014 20:25, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: Ah that's true! I forgot about that! Good reminder... On 7/15/2014 2:03 PM, Serch Mucino wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't *have *to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? --
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?, On 15 July 2014 20:25, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: Ah that's true! I forgot about that! Good reminder... On 7/15/2014 2:03 PM, Serch Mucino wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't have to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? --
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
This! there is a term for it, but i can't remember. :P gathering nodes and organizing them. http://wpfiles.darkvertex.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ICEtree_DeformWithSourceMesh.png On 15 July 2014 20:53, Sergio Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?, On 15 July 2014 20:25, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: Ah that's true! I forgot about that! Good reminder... On 7/15/2014 2:03 PM, Serch Mucino wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't *have *to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? --
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
just put a request in for color coded node sockets in the designated request area of the modo forum:) On 15 July 2014 21:01, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: This! there is a term for it, but i can't remember. :P gathering nodes and organizing them. http://wpfiles.darkvertex.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ICEtree_DeformWithSourceMesh.png On 15 July 2014 20:53, Sergio Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?, On 15 July 2014 20:25, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: Ah that's true! I forgot about that! Good reminder... On 7/15/2014 2:03 PM, Serch Mucino wrote: You can also assign colors to nodes directly in the schematic view (even non-item related nodes, such as math nodes). I would like Modo to color-code sockets by data type. That would be quite useful. Sergio Mucino On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: The color coding of nodes in Modo's is very different from ICE's: instead of coding by node type, they inherit the color assigned to the item they represent. So for example, in the Item List, if you select something, right-click, and set the 'Editor Color', the corresponding node(s) will be outlined in that color in the Schematic. It's not like ICE, but it's something at least, so you don't *have *to stare at a sea of light gray outlines. At the rate they've been improving Modo's schematic over the last couple of versions, I expect cool stuff in the future. -Tim On 7/15/2014 1:45 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Modo's nodes are quite pretty, all they need is a bit of color to identify different components of a tree :), why is no one else doing this ? is it because an ICE trees layout is linear ? so its easier to identify where the beginning and end of things is happening and subsequent color coding ? --
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
No, Modo doesn't not /yet /have a Group Comment node. -Tim On 7/15/2014 3:01 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: This! there is a term for it, but i can't remember. :P gathering nodes and organizing them. http://wpfiles.darkvertex.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ICEtree_DeformWithSourceMesh.png On 15 July 2014 20:53, Sergio Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com mailto:sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?,
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
If they do get one, please someone make sure that they make it work with auto arrange! My CTRL+R addiction in ICE renders Soft's one useless. :( On 15 July 2014 21:08, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: No, Modo doesn't not *yet *have a Group Comment node. -Tim On 7/15/2014 3:01 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: This! there is a term for it, but i can't remember. :P gathering nodes and organizing them. http://wpfiles.darkvertex.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ICEtree_DeformWithSourceMesh.png On 15 July 2014 20:53, Sergio Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?,
RE: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app.That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Couldn't agree more with you Eric. I was introduced to the node editor some months ago,and for a second though maya actually got an actual nice node editor as the render tree in xsi.that didnt last long... sure is better then the crappy hypergraph connection editor... butstill looks awful to me and makes shading (something I actually really enjoy doing in the render tree) something very unpleasant...the devil is in the details and they surely have not understand this, xsi did so though.. such a shame (oh wait the foundry also got it! :) -Manuel IMDB | Portfolio | Vimeo | Linkedin From: peter@googlemail.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:11:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com If they do get one, please someone make sure that they make it work with auto arrange! My CTRL+R addiction in ICE renders Soft's one useless. :( On 15 July 2014 21:08, Tim Crowson tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com wrote: No, Modo doesn't not yet have a Group Comment node. -Tim On 7/15/2014 3:01 PM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: This! there is a term for it, but i can't remember. :P gathering nodes and organizing them. http://wpfiles.darkvertex.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ICEtree_DeformWithSourceMesh.png On 15 July 2014 20:53, Sergio Mucino sergio.muc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by with a statement. Can you elaborate? Sergio Muciño. Sent from my iPad. On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Ooo ! does it have a system for gathering a group of nodes with a statement and moving them around ?,
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I agree Eric, 100% As of now we're probably shifting lighting, shading and scene setup in Houdini instead of Maya now that HtoA is in play. It's much closer to Soft in terms of usability and UI maturity. We primarily use Arnold but Mantra is a fantastic sidekick and when you combine them you end up with an amazingly powerful triumvirate. Frankly I was shocked and disappointed at how bad Maya's shading workflow was after taking some quick looks, everything takes an extra 2 or three or more steps for every single one of Softs or Houdini's. The simple task of connecting nodes isn't even straightforward!! Compile a days worth of extra steps and I've lost a solid hour to clicking. Anyone who has even looked any other package should know this, it's immediately apparent that there will be a measurable reduction in productivity. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Same here. On Jul 15, 2014, at 22:28, Simon van de Lagemaat si...@theembassyvfx.com wrote: As of now we're probably shifting lighting, shading and scene setup in Houdini instead of Maya now that HtoA is in play. It's much closer to Soft in terms of usability and UI maturity. We primarily use Arnold but Mantra is a fantastic sidekick and when you combine them you end up with an amazingly powerful triumvirate.
RE: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Exactly the same here Simon, I think Mantra has come a long way in the last couple of years. In fact it would be my next choice behind Arnold right now. The beauty is you can have both!, the Alembic workflow in Houdini is also brilliant. It really is a no brainer for us at this stage... From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Simon van de Lagemaat [si...@theembassyvfx.com] Sent: 16 July 2014 06:28 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor I agree Eric, 100% As of now we're probably shifting lighting, shading and scene setup in Houdini instead of Maya now that HtoA is in play. It's much closer to Soft in terms of usability and UI maturity. We primarily use Arnold but Mantra is a fantastic sidekick and when you combine them you end up with an amazingly powerful triumvirate. Frankly I was shocked and disappointed at how bad Maya's shading workflow was after taking some quick looks, everything takes an extra 2 or three or more steps for every single one of Softs or Houdini's. The simple task of connecting nodes isn't even straightforward!! Compile a days worth of extra steps and I've lost a solid hour to clicking. Anyone who has even looked any other package should know this, it's immediately apparent that there will be a measurable reduction in productivity. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.commailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.commailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
Is it possible to get around it without code ? or is scripting very much a part of the process ? On 16 July 2014 01:49, Nick Angus n...@altvfx.com wrote: Exactly the same here Simon, I think Mantra has come a long way in the last couple of years. In fact it would be my next choice behind Arnold right now. The beauty is you can have both!, the Alembic workflow in Houdini is also brilliant. It really is a no brainer for us at this stage... -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Simon van de Lagemaat [si...@theembassyvfx.com] *Sent:* 16 July 2014 06:28 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor I agree Eric, 100% As of now we're probably shifting lighting, shading and scene setup in Houdini instead of Maya now that HtoA is in play. It's much closer to Soft in terms of usability and UI maturity. We primarily use Arnold but Mantra is a fantastic sidekick and when you combine them you end up with an amazingly powerful triumvirate. Frankly I was shocked and disappointed at how bad Maya's shading workflow was after taking some quick looks, everything takes an extra 2 or three or more steps for every single one of Softs or Houdini's. The simple task of connecting nodes isn't even straightforward!! Compile a days worth of extra steps and I've lost a solid hour to clicking. Anyone who has even looked any other package should know this, it's immediately apparent that there will be a measurable reduction in productivity. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :) G On 2014/07/16 04:04 AM, Sebastien Sterling wrote: Is it possible to get around it without code ? or is scripting very much a part of the process ? On 16 July 2014 01:49, Nick Angus n...@altvfx.com mailto:n...@altvfx.com wrote: Exactly the same here Simon, I think Mantra has come a long way in the last couple of years. In fact it would be my next choice behind Arnold right now. The beauty is you can have both!, the Alembic workflow in Houdini is also brilliant. It really is a no brainer for us at this stage... *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Simon van de Lagemaat [si...@theembassyvfx.com mailto:si...@theembassyvfx.com] *Sent:* 16 July 2014 06:28 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor I agree Eric, 100% As of now we're probably shifting lighting, shading and scene setup in Houdini instead of Maya now that HtoA is in play. It's much closer to Soft in terms of usability and UI maturity. We primarily use Arnold but Mantra is a fantastic sidekick and when you combine them you end up with an amazingly powerful triumvirate. Frankly I was shocked and disappointed at how bad Maya's shading workflow was after taking some quick looks, everything takes an extra 2 or three or more steps for every single one of Softs or Houdini's. The simple task of connecting nodes isn't even straightforward!! Compile a days worth of extra steps and I've lost a solid hour to clicking. Anyone who has even looked any other package should know this, it's immediately apparent that there will be a measurable reduction in productivity. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com mailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: He, he, the owner of a restaurant that serves healthy food containing everything the body needs (calories, vitamines etc.) but that looks, tastes and smeels bad, must not be surprised if people complain :) Seriously, the problem is not the functionality, it is the usability, the look and feel. I am aware that making a pretty UI is - at least from a programmer's stand point, not a cool challenge, but having nice and meaningful colors, good drag and drop functionality, text instead of ugly icons and all the other nice little things as one finds in the ICE Tree or Modo's schematic view make a huge difference for the paying (!) customer, i.e. the gals and guys that spend hours and hours using the app. That's what makes Softimage so special: it just feels right and it actually is a real pleasure to do things, even complicated things. One truly has the feeling that somebody sat down and thought about how to implement something and - most importantly - how to make the user interaction as pleasant and intuitive as possible. Not saying that XSI is perfect, but it definitely is a software made by people who actually cared about it and wanted to make something good. Isn't the Softimage crew working on Maya now??? C'mon, guys, you did such an outstanding job on Softimage, do the same for Maya: make it a software one loves and likes! Am 15.07.2014 17:07, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau: Define make it better? On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Eric Mootze...@mootzoid.com mailto:e...@mootzoid.com wrote: Thanks, guys. I had already used the node editor in Maya 2014 and yes, it is far better than the hypergraph, but still... it's not good at all. Had hoped that they would make that better, but no.
Re: Maya 2015 Node Editor
To be fair, I wish Soft had the same loops that don't make sense. Maya nodes are able to inspect and express the scene graph to a much higher extent than it's ever been possible in Soft. Things like the parent inverse transform being able to feed back into a node affecting the owner of that attribute are shortcuts, and convenient ones at that. Introspection and outwards inspection from nodes have always been considerably ahead of Soft's historically painfully limited operators. It's a massive mistake to confuse the NE with ICE. They serve completely different purposes past the superficial and cosmetic similarities, and are good at completely different things. Maya isn't really stupid, counter-intuitive or useless in those regards, neither it is destructive. What Maya's issue is, by and large, is how F'ing poor the toolkit out of the box is. You have a ton of tiny, overly complicated minutiae to deal with that requires you develop knowledge and memory of ridiculously convoluted processes that are at odds with how the software operates, and you have a solid (if aging) and extensive platform when it comes to scene handling. It completely misses everything inbetween, so if you can't fill that gap (and on average commercial plugins and free scripts do a piss poor job of it) yourself, you're up a creek without a paddle and a tidal wave coming your way. This is in the context of the scene graph. When it comes to proceduralism of a certain type, higher level management of the scene and so on, Maya is a barren wasteland where blood thirsty rapists and serial killers roam free. You need to build a lot of stuff, a lot of it to an extremely low level, to make it barely passable (passes anyone?) On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: I think my main problem with the node editor is that some things that are influencing each other, aren't connected in the node editor. Other things are connected in a loop. This makes no sense to us humans. I was hoping the node editor would fill the gap left by the lack of a proper operator stack, but it still blows my mind how destructive Maya's work flow is. For now the node editor is where I do my shading, and check to see if my deformers are still linked when things don't seem to work right. OH here is a fun thing to try: put some animation on a sphere. Then graph that in the editor, and add animation layers. My nose almost started bleeding :) G
