Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
Hi Maurice, *(...) * *Building a new DCC app from the ground up in the traditional way is really not a realistic expectation. It nearly killed both Alias and Softimage. We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And they need their current products to move forward not to stop for the next 7 years while we try to do this.* *(...)* May I ask you kindly to take a step back for a second and re-read your above statement again from the perspective of a Softimage user? Thanks, Martin -- Martin Chatterjee [ Freelance Technical Director ] [ http://www.chatterjee.de ] [ https://vimeo.com/chatterjee ]
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
I think you are right. On 21 March 2014 03:36, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: FYI, Alembic is a Softimage 2015 feature, and neither Alembic nor OpenSubDiv have been ruled out for other products. I think it's time for this thread to end and people to take a break, there is nothing productive coming out of this thread. On Thursday, March 20, 2014, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Did you think Softimage users, would not of benefited from
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
That's a joke right? I mean for the Most Requested Feature?... was another plugin? !!! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Turns out the MOST REQUESTED FEATURE for Max 2015, was a 30$ plugin http://www.vg2max.spb.ru/edgechex.htm and looks like new Layer system and schematic nodel view was also third party tech https://vimeo.com/57075455 On 19 March 2014 07:26, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.comwrote: It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its just slow, the constraints are slow. On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Akbarov *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
That's why I call 3DMax as a Plugin Container, not a 3D package. ;) --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
That's why I call 3DMax a Plugin Container That not really the issue, maya is pretty much wall to wall third party as well by nature. This is AD not being arsed with developing content, so it looks around for pre existing solutions, snaps them up, adds them in, Then they market them as New features... It's not so much that they buy pre-made solutions, there are some really smart third party people out there, its the fact they through them in with minimal integration and little regard for workflow, that and having a 30 euros operator, being your highlight... In all fairness the max people walked right into that one, they presented AD with the easy option. , minimal effort required. I mean what the hell can the AD dev's do, do they just re-purpose and integrate all day ? On 20 March 2014 10:33, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.com wrote: That's why I call 3DMax as a Plugin Container, not a 3D package. ;) --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
RE: Why MAX is not option for me.
Hi Sebastien, Tenshi Just for the record. Those features are NOT third party tech that we integrated, They are features we built into the product because a lot of users have been asking for them. Just because plug-ins exist does not mean the tech is a plug-in Maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tenshi S. Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:41 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. That's a joke right? I mean for the Most Requested Feature?... was another plugin? !!! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Turns out the MOST REQUESTED FEATURE for Max 2015, was a 30$ plugin http://www.vg2max.spb.ru/edgechex.htm and looks like new Layer system and schematic nodel view was also third party tech https://vimeo.com/57075455 On 19 March 2014 07:26, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its just slow, the constraints are slow. On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.commailto:szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Akbarov Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake. attachment: winmail.dat
RE: Why MAX is not option for me.
The interesting thing is that the ME industry is full of custom and specialized tech created to solve specific production problems. That is not going to change any time soon because people are always trying to do push boundaries (whether in games or VFX) and so build interesting solutions to their problems. Taking proven technology and productizing it, whether as individual products, (like the Foundry) or as features (like Autodesk) is not really a bad thing a-priori - you could argue it is actually a very good thing as it benefits a lot more people if you do (assuming you do it well). Now you may question our execution, but it is incorrect to think that (1) this is not an effective thing to do to ensure the best production technology can be accessed by more people or (2) to think that only Autodesk is interested in acquiring and productizing proven production solutions and (3) to think that Autodesk is only interested in acquiring technology. We develop a lot of features in-house including major architectural work which is complex, difficult to do and doesn't always reward you with a new 'shiny feature' that is easy to demo. We also acquire tech, redesign and re-engineer it, even rewrite it entirely, to fit into our products and workflows and yes, if it is more efficient to do so, we just integrate it. But that is not all we do and there seem to be some popular misconceptions - such as the fact that the 'plug-ins' that referred to in the links are nothing to do with the features that were being described in 3ds Max 2015. Not that 3ds Max is Softimage - but it is not just a bunch of plug-ins either. maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:40 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. That's why I call 3DMax a Plugin Container That not really the issue, maya is pretty much wall to wall third party as well by nature. This is AD not being arsed with developing content, so it looks around for pre existing solutions, snaps them up, adds them in, Then they market them as New features... It's not so much that they buy pre-made solutions, there are some really smart third party people out there, its the fact they through them in with minimal integration and little regard for workflow, that and having a 30 euros operator, being your highlight... In all fairness the max people walked right into that one, they presented AD with the easy option. , minimal effort required. I mean what the hell can the AD dev's do, do they just re-purpose and integrate all day ? On 20 March 2014 10:33, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.commailto:danielki...@gmail.com wrote: That's why I call 3DMax as a Plugin Container, not a 3D package. ;) --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com --- attachment: winmail.dat
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
I would really like to have that bevel tool in SI. I don't care if it's a plugin. I'd never model in Max though. Martin Sent from my iPhone On 2014/03/21, at 2:30, Maurice Patel maurice.pa...@autodesk.com wrote: Hi Sebastien, Tenshi Just for the record. Those features are NOT third party tech that we integrated, They are features we built into the product because a lot of users have been asking for them. Just because plug-ins exist does not mean the tech is a plug-in Maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tenshi S. Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:41 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. That's a joke right? I mean for the Most Requested Feature?... was another plugin? !!! On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Turns out the MOST REQUESTED FEATURE for Max 2015, was a 30$ plugin http://www.vg2max.spb.ru/edgechex.htm and looks like new Layer system and schematic nodel view was also third party tech https://vimeo.com/57075455 On 19 March 2014 07:26, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.commailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its just slow, the constraints are slow. On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.commailto:szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Akbarov Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake. winmail.dat
RE: Why MAX is not option for me.
Sebastian, It may be easier to talk because I think a lot is getting lost in translation here... We acquired Softimage for many reasons including a talented engineering team and the fact that they had great expertise creating IP like ICE that we wanted to leverage for projects like skyline Open sourcing software would mean removing all parts of the IP that were licensed from third parties as well as Autodesk IP that we do not want to make public. This would require a lot of resources to do. And then we would have to fix it because with all that code missing it would not compile, and even if it did, it would not be the Softimage you know today. So open source is not really a serious proposal. It seems a great idea but it is completely impractical. Similarly selling it is not an option for similar reasons. It is factually inaccurate to state that we do no development and just buy things. We do a lot. We have large teams of engineers and we invest significant amounts of money paying their salaries - you just need to visit our facilities to see that. The bulk of our code is developed internally from scratch. OpenSubdiv, Alembic, Open EXR are not acquired code - they are open-sourced standards that the industry is adopting that we support. It seems clear that you feel that those standards are of little use but I know that most of the industry wants us to support them. Customers are specifically asking us to embrace those standards and to NOT cook up proprietary formats of our own. And it is not simple to adapt your products to support new standards. It requires investment and work. Bifrost is in-house tech. Yes the Naiad team contributed their expertise but it was built from the ground up by Autodesk. Building a new DCC app from the ground up in the traditional way is really not a realistic expectation. It nearly killed both Alias and Softimage. We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And they need their current products to move forward not to stop for the next 7 years while we try to do this. The bifrost approach is a far more effective one. Build new components that integrate into the core of our applications - as is vieeport 2.0 , the work we have done on the 3ds max viewport and other capabilities we are currently working on maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:23 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. It is incorrect to think that Autodesk is only interested in acquiring technology: Did you consider the viability of selling Softimage? There's too much tied into the software for us to do that safely. We've looked at open-sourcing, not just Softimage but other applications, but it's not trivial to do these things. There's code bases, third party IP, we have to go through all of it to understand where all the IP came from. We wouldn't sell the software. We paid to acquire the IP Taking proven technology and productizing it, whether as individual products, (like the Foundry) or as features (like Autodesk) is not really a bad thing a-priori... Yadadad... This is basically you going back on your previous statement, after realising the obvious fallacy, i get it. Hard In house developing VS levering capital to buy Third party/free party tech, and display them as new features is one thing But you will have a hard time selling the latter as innovation when your line up for 2015 is comprised of pre existing solutions dating back to 2008. Personally i think it is a good thing that ingenious third party plugs find their way into an app, but only when they are well integrated. and i don't particularly like seeing something as trivial as a chamfer modifier elevated and flaunted as a flagship feature, i completely understand the reactions of the Max community. Yes, I guess I can start look for an alternative (even though that won't be easy) and that's not because with Max 2013 I'm not productive (even if I've to do several back and forth with C4D), but because at this point I don't believe AD will ever add any substantial new features to Max. Considering recent Softimage users experience, I just wanna stay away from a company like this. This is you, this is how you are seen, by a comunity of people who's DCC you are still supporting. if this account is anything less then soul crushing to you as a provider, then you have a serious problem. indeed you may well have lost 2 applications this day I'm pretty sure that somewhere down the road in a few years time, somebody is going to posit: Of course ! let's retire max, we can't support another DCC and numbers are flagging... We also acquire tech, redesign and re-engineer it, even rewrite it entirely, to fit into our products
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
On 3/20/2014 4:54 PM, Maurice Patel wrote: We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And*they need their current products to move forward not to stop* for the next 7 years while we try to do this. Yeah, well. (my highlighting)
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
+1 I really can only wonder. So this becomes more and more a real satire. On 3/20/2014 4:54 PM, Maurice Patel wrote: We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And*they need their current products to move forward not to stop* for the next 7 years while we try to do this. Yeah, well. (my highlighting)
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
Autodesk is interested in acquiring and productizing proven production solutions and (3) to think that Autodesk is only interested in acquiring technology. We develop a lot of features in-house including major architectural work which is complex, difficult to do and doesn't always reward you with a new 'shiny feature' that is easy to demo. We also acquire tech, redesign and re-engineer it, even rewrite it entirely, to fit into our products and workflows and yes, if it is more efficient to do so, we just integrate it. But that is not all we do and there seem to be some popular misconceptions - such as the fact that the 'plug-ins' that referred to in the links are nothing to do with the features that were being described in 3ds Max 2015. Not that 3ds Max is Softimage - but it is not just a bunch of plug-ins either. maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:40 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. That's why I call 3DMax a Plugin Container That not really the issue, maya is pretty much wall to wall third party as well by nature. This is AD not being arsed with developing content, so it looks around for pre existing solutions, snaps them up, adds them in, Then they market them as New features... It's not so much that they buy pre-made solutions, there are some really smart third party people out there, its the fact they through them in with minimal integration and little regard for workflow, that and having a 30 euros operator, being your highlight... In all fairness the max people walked right into that one, they presented AD with the easy option. , minimal effort required. I mean what the hell can the AD dev's do, do they just re-purpose and integrate all day ? On 20 March 2014 10:33, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.commailto: danielki...@gmail.com wrote: That's why I call 3DMax as a Plugin Container, not a 3D package. ;) --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
exactly, Softimage users were never then true Autodesk customers , they were raw materials for your *real* customers. you never bothered to move Softimage forward yet neither told us this fact whilst taking our money and pretending we were 'customers' but not actually. since 2008.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
Building a new DCC app from the ground up in the traditional way is really not a realistic expectation. It nearly killed both Alias and Softimage. We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And they need their current products to move forward not to stop for the next 7 years while we try to do this. The bifrost approach is a far more effective one So why kill softimage then, you could have just integrated bifrost into ICE! On 20 March 2014 22:54, Rob Chapman tekano@gmail.com wrote: exactly, Softimage users were never then true Autodesk customers , they were raw materials for your *real* customers. you never bothered to move Softimage forward yet neither told us this fact whilst taking our money and pretending we were 'customers' but not actually. since 2008.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
specific production problems. That is not going to change any time soon because people are always trying to do push boundaries (whether in games or VFX) and so build interesting solutions to their problems. Taking proven technology and productizing it, whether as individual products, (like the Foundry) or as features (like Autodesk) is not really a bad thing a-priori - you could argue it is actually a very good thing as it benefits a lot more people if you do (assuming you do it well). Now you may question our execution, but it is incorrect to think that (1) this is not an effective thing to do to ensure the best production technology can be accessed by more people or (2) to think that only Autodesk is interested in acquiring and productizing proven production solutions and (3) to think that Autodesk is only interested in acquiring technology. We develop a lot of features in-house including major architectural work which is complex, difficult to do and doesn't always reward you with a new 'shiny feature' that is easy to demo. We also acquire tech, redesign and re-engineer it, even rewrite it entirely, to fit into our products and workflows and yes, if it is more efficient to do so, we just integrate it. But that is not all we do and there seem to be some popular misconceptions - such as the fact that the 'plug-ins' that referred to in the links are nothing to do with the features that were being described in 3ds Max 2015. Not that 3ds Max is Softimage - but it is not just a bunch of plug-ins either. maurice Maurice Patel Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:40 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. That's why I call 3DMax a Plugin Container That not really the issue, maya is pretty much wall to wall third party as well by nature. This is AD not being arsed with developing content, so it looks around for pre existing solutions, snaps them up, adds them in, Then they market them as New features... It's not so much that they buy pre-made solutions, there are some really smart third party people out there, its the fact they through them in with minimal integration and little regard for workflow, that and having a 30 euros operator, being your highlight... In all fairness the max people walked right into that one, they presented AD with the easy option. , minimal effort required. I mean what the hell can the AD dev's do, do they just re-purpose and integrate all day ? On 20 March 2014 10:33, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.commailto: danielki...@gmail.com wrote: That's why I call 3DMax as a Plugin Container, not a 3D package. ;) --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
Well that's what make all this story dramatic. Softimage took a high risk and they SURVIVED. Not only they survived but they also inspired the 3d industry. This acquisition should have never happened. On 2014-03-20 22:54, Maurice Patel wrote: Building a new DCC app from the ground up in the traditional way is really not a realistic expectation. It nearly killed both Alias and Softimage.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
*OpenSubdiv, Alembic, Open EXR are not acquired code - they are open-sourced standards that the industry is adopting that we support. It seems clear that you feel that those standards are of little use.* Ow Maurice ! how wrong of you. I'm extremely aware of the value of Opensubdiv, Alembic and all this exiting stuff coming into standard practice across the industry. The entire point i was trying to make was; What have you done AUTODESK that is comparable to these feats of ingenuity ? Skyline? Worse! You could have done something beautiful and integrated Opensubdiv and Alembic across the board in all you product creating both unity and harmony. But yours was the selfish rout wasn't it? To share it in only one of your applications and let your other customers languish in discontent wondering: Do we matter so little ? Do you think Open Subdive would be amiss in a package like 3D studio MAX ? Did Maya users need to wait 16 years for its integration ? Did you think Softimage users, would not of benefited from Alembic ? What about Python ? did you ever take the time to check out the most Requested feature on the Softimage user list ? https://softimage.uservoice.com/forums/225405-unofficial-idea-for-autodesk-softimage Up until recently, that was PyQt integration... not much to ask, considering i see you integrated it into Max this release... Open subdiv is available in Modo... Alembic is also part of Nuke... You say that clients dissuade you from developing proprietary Formats, but do you even understand what makes alembic or open EXR so revered ? They fill intimate needs within the industry and even better the people who developed them opened them up to the world, for free, it must have cost thousands of dollars and hours to develop these solutions, and yet they where put out there. because the people wanted these solutions to be adopted to better the industry. Progress... *We do a lot. We have large teams of engineers and we invest significant amounts of money paying their salaries - you just need to visit our facilities to see that. The bulk of our code is developed internally from scratch.* *I'*m sure you do, maintaining decade old cores alongside re-purposing acquired Technology. and I'm sure that the people you have doing this are all qualified and talented individuals. never think i blame your staff for any this, they are not at fault here. *We could take that risk if we were a start-up with no customers but we have hundreds of thousands. And they need their current products to move forward not to stop for the next 7 years while we try to do this* Considering you bought up the main three DCC work horses, then spent the next 12 years maintaining them in a state of artificial stagnation so as to avoid one of them outstripping the other... Hell you kept them so stagnant. you created a demand for better software. Side FX and Luxology owe you for the void you created and allowed them to fill. And that's what this is about. one day you realize the world is moving on, and all of a sudden you want out of your own little festering monopoly. So you decide to frantically rip some shit up and destroy some livelihoods, cause it's not like they weren't thousands of users. it's not like they had families and children, mortgages, collage educations. You fucked up their working lives, and considering you seem hell bent on perpetrating this folie in 2 years time, do you really need to fuck up the message as well ? *That's what i find amazing.* I don't think people want to hear we are really sorry BUT... BUT we need to move on.. BUT, we will develop transition methods... BUT you can upgrade to a new Maya or max... It's about giving these people a last measure of human dignity, you have hurt them so bad. It's having the respect not to try and put a gleeful spin on this. It's about having the decency and common sense not to indulge in mocking punchlines. ...IN WITH THE NEW ! You see that ? you just insulted thousands of good competent artists, From the top of your 2015 campaign banner you declared them old, and irrelevant. What a type you must consort with, to not fear beating for such an insult. What unnatural men. Is this your idea of good PR?
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
FYI, Alembic is a Softimage 2015 feature, and neither Alembic nor OpenSubDiv have been ruled out for other products. I think it's time for this thread to end and people to take a break, there is nothing productive coming out of this thread. On Thursday, March 20, 2014, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Did you think Softimage users, would not of benefited from
RE: Why MAX is not option for me.
Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Akbarov Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its just slow, the constraints are slow. On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Akbarov *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com : Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
Turns out the MOST REQUESTED FEATURE for Max 2015, was a 30$ plugin http://www.vg2max.spb.ru/edgechex.htm and looks like new Layer system and schematic nodel view was also third party tech https://vimeo.com/57075455 On 19 March 2014 07:26, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.comwrote: It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its just slow, the constraints are slow. On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other software, but Max. Only with Max. *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Akbarov *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Why MAX is not option for me. If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Why MAX is not option for me...
..because this is the only 3d app that can crash without using it. Seriously. On the weekend I had a short freelance job with Max. That piece of shit crashed about 5 times in an hour, ate up 3 gigabytes of memory with a realtime motorbike model and it's realtime shader. The final stab was when I was viewing the references in XnView, and suddenly Max crashed in the background. Shame on Autodesk, they are shipping faulty products, charging you for getting bugfixes, misleading you, and cheat on you. F.ck them. Thanks God modo and zbrush are very far from that huge, disgusting entity ___ This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Crytek GmbH - http://www.crytek.com - Grüneburgweg 16-18, 60322 Frankfurt - HRB77322 Amtsgericht Frankfurt a. Main- UST IdentNr.: DE20432461 - Geschaeftsfuehrer: Avni Yerli, Cevat Yerli, Faruk Yerli
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
Haha, I had this too, it does indeed crash randomly even with not interacted with. It's crashing even more often running on bootcamp on curent-gen IMacs, but I guess that's mostly due to gfx-card drivers. I'm currently teaching a class of 5 once in a week on the basics of CG on 3dsmax (because the school decided to use that, not because I wanted to) and it's crashing on them at least twice in 4 hours (and we do really basic stuff on super-lightweight scenes). Safe always, safe often... ..because this is the only 3d app that can crash without using it. Seriously. On the weekend I had a short freelance job with Max. That piece of shit crashed about 5 times in an hour, ate up 3 gigabytes of memory with a realtime motorbike model and it's realtime shader. The final stab was when I was viewing the references in XnView, and suddenly Max crashed in the background. Shame on Autodesk, they are shipping faulty products, charging you for getting bugfixes, misleading you, and cheat on you. F.ck them. Thanks God modo and zbrush are very far from that huge, disgusting entity ___ This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Crytek GmbH - http://www.crytek.com - Grüneburgweg 16-18, 60322 Frankfurt - HRB77322 Amtsgericht Frankfurt a. Main- UST IdentNr.: DE20432461 - Geschaeftsfuehrer: Avni Yerli, Cevat Yerli, Faruk Yerli -- - Stefan Kubicek ste...@keyvis.at - keyvis digital imagery Alfred Feierfeilstraße 3 A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien Phone: +43 (0) 699 12614231 www.keyvis.at -- This email and its attachments are-- -- confidential and for the recipient only --
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
If Max crashes about 5 times in an hour there is definitely something wrong with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself... 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com: Max is a well known Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long because it has a ridiculous installed user base. I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it. Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move away from it despite a massive market pull. It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its history to it's identity. Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash in with a ducking rake.
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
I've been using a little of MAX the last month, most basically to convert SI data, apply materials using some plugins and rendering (plugins only available in MAX, the only reason why we are using MAX) and I haven't had stability problems. It feels heavy and slow, it takes a lot of time to just start up (on an SSD) and it's a really pita to work with, but haven't had that many crashes. Sometimes It may become unresponsive when having it on background, but you need to be patient and wait for Max to wake up. Martin Sent from my iPhone On 2014/03/17, at 17:36, Szabolcs Matefy szabol...@crytek.com wrote: ..because this is the only 3d app that can crash without using it. Seriously. On the weekend I had a short freelance job with Max. That piece of shit crashed about 5 times in an hour, ate up 3 gigabytes of memory with a realtime motorbike model and it’s realtime shader. The final stab was when I was viewing the references in XnView, and suddenly Max crashed in the background. Shame on Autodesk, they are shipping faulty products, charging you for getting bugfixes, misleading you, and cheat on you. F.ck them. Thanks God modo and zbrush are very far from that huge, disgusting entity…. ___ This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Crytek GmbH - http://www.crytek.com - Grüneburgweg 16-18, 60322 Frankfurt - HRB77322 Amtsgericht Frankfurt a. Main- UST IdentNr.: DE20432461 - Geschaeftsfuehrer: Avni Yerli, Cevat Yerli, Faruk Yerli
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
The only difference between Max and Maya is that Max is a plugin container, and Maya is script container with plugins AD bought and sell them as integrated and innovation. --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation. 2014-03-17 14:20 GMT-06:00 Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.com: Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
You know how it is.. I was in position to observe that strange species called Max users. They are used to it, it is normal like day and night. So they don;t even notice, how long it takes for Max to even start and to do anything. Another thing that I've noticed with most of Max users is that they have no idea what naming objects is! Open max scene and you see bunch of cylinder xxx, square xxx etc... I guess it is due to lack of normal scene explorer so they don;t even see the mess they make :) ofc there are different kind of them but most of them I ever met fits that description.. strange specie... really. And all how you do that in max questions starts with there is plugin On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.com wrote: Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
2014-03-17 17:23 GMT-03:00 Emilio Hernandez emi...@e-roja.com: The only difference between Max and Maya is that Max is a plugin container, and Maya is script container with plugins AD bought and sell them as integrated and innovation. The best definition of Maya and Max I ever saw. --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation. 2014-03-17 14:20 GMT-06:00 Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.com: Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com --- -- www.pauloduarte.ws
RE: Why MAX is not option for me...
NCSoft, really? Which studio(s)? Matt Senior Technical Artist Carbine Studios (NCSOFT) From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Kim Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 1:20 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me... Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
What's the big deal about plugins/scripts? I mean, I've been reading such comments A LOT lately and I honestly don't see the problem. What about softimage? fluid simulation, rendering, even rigging is often tackled through plugins (and scripts/compounds). I think it's not good for anyone go blindly saying that Softimage is so superior compared to all the crap out there. Softimage is great, I love it, but it has some flaws too. Aand send, click (running for my life!)
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
Huh? Blizzard uses Max only for legacy WoW content, they moved to Maya dog ages ago. NCSoft is a publisher and distributor, they mostly use MS Office. What studios under NCS are you thinking of? I know only three (and they have a stash of large and small ones, some local to SEA only), but all of them are Maya except for Carbine which is Soft. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.com wrote: Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com --- -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: Why MAX is not option for me...
NCSoft uses Hangul, not MS Office. '-) Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 3:47 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Why MAX is not option for me... Huh? Blizzard uses Max only for legacy WoW content, they moved to Maya dog ages ago. NCSoft is a publisher and distributor, they mostly use MS Office. What studios under NCS are you thinking of? I know only three (and they have a stash of large and small ones, some local to SEA only), but all of them are Maya except for Carbine which is Soft. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Kim danielki...@gmail.commailto:danielki...@gmail.com wrote: Max is a container of plugins. Too much crashes, uncountable. I'm just curious though. So many game studio use Max, like Blizzard, NCSoft, etc. Don't they notice that Max crashes a lot? or they just got used to it? Either way is stupid for me though... Max will never be an option for SI users, especially. --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com --- -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Why MAX is not option for me...
I didn't know Blizz moved to Maya, but NCsoft's main office in South Korea, they use Max : / --- Daniel Kim Animation Director Professional 3D Generalist http://www.danielkim3d.com ---
