Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Evan Platt]

At 10:55 AM 12/13/2002, you wrote:


Does anyone know if there is a way that I can have SA send a
message that is detected as spam back to the spammer stating
you are not welcome and this message is blocked...??

Or is that asking for trouble.


I think it's been brought up before - SA has no sending capabilities. A 
procmail script would do the trick, but probably is asking for trouble.

Evan



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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Matt Kettler]

Well, that's not really something SA itself can do at all.. SA is just a 
filter, it can't deliver, delete, or do anything else but change the 
content of an email. However the MUA/MTA that you are calling SA from could 
be capable of such things. A good procmail recipe should be able to do it..

Unfortunately 99.9% of those block messages are going to be undeliverable.. 
When's the last time you saw a MLM scam email that had a valid email 
address as the from?

At 01:55 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, James D. Stallings wrote:

Does anyone know if there is a way that I can have SA send a
message that is detected as spam back to the spammer stating
you are not welcome and this message is blocked...??

Or is that asking for trouble.

Thanks
Jim




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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Tony L. Svanstrom]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 the voices made James D. Stallings write:

> Does anyone know if there is a way that I can have SA send a
> message that is detected as spam back to the spammer stating
> you are not welcome and this message is blocked...??

 1. SA doesn't send nor delete e-mails, it just tags 'em.

 2. There will be false positives, resulting in maybe lost business because you
accused a valued client of being a spammer.

 3. Most spam doesn't contain a valid e-mailaddress that will reach the
spammer, almost all valid (and used) e-mailaddresses in spam is that of another
innocent victim.


/Tony
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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Michael Grau]

If you want to bounce mail that you are sure is spam,
you'll want to integrate SA with a milter like
mimedefang. Then you can just do:

if ($hits >= $req) {
return action_bounce("Message looks like SPAM, rejected");
}

You can also keep a copy of the message in quaranteen for a
few days in case it was bounced in error, and you can be notified
if a bounce occurs.

When you bounce a message it is bounced to the _envelope_
sender address, not the faked message sender address. The
envelope sender address exists or you wouldn't have got the
message in the first place. You're bouncing the message, not
sending it back "From:" address. The "hurting innocents" is
complete dribble.



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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[up]

This varies depending on the MDA.  With maildrop (used with Maildir), you
would have something like:

if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/))
{
echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."
EXITCODE=100
exit
}

to "./Maildir/."

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, James D. Stallings wrote:

>
> Does anyone know if there is a way that I can have SA send a
> message that is detected as spam back to the spammer stating
> you are not welcome and this message is blocked...??
>
> Or is that asking for trouble.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
> 
> Get your own "800" number
> Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
> http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag
>
>
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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Mike Leone]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at 18:20: 
> 
> This varies depending on the MDA.  With maildrop (used with Maildir), you
> would have something like:
> 
> if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/))
> {
> echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."
> EXITCODE=100
> exit
> }
> 
> to "./Maildir/."

Hi James! (I'm an old customer :-)

Anyway, how does that inform the spammer? The mail server must understand
that EXITCODE=100 means REJECT the mail. So it's also a MTA-specific thing,
I think. And the echo isn't handed back to the MTA, to be included in the
REJECT message.

BTW, I also use maildrop; I find it a lot easier than procmail.

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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[up]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Mike Leone wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at 18:20:
> >
> > This varies depending on the MDA.  With maildrop (used with Maildir), you
> > would have something like:
> >
> > if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/))
> > {
> > echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."
> > EXITCODE=100
> > exit
> > }
> >
> > to "./Maildir/."
>
> Hi James! (I'm an old customer :-)

I remember :)

> Anyway, how does that inform the spammer? The mail server must understand
> that EXITCODE=100 means REJECT the mail. So it's also a MTA-specific thing,
> I think. And the echo isn't handed back to the MTA, to be included in the
> REJECT message.

Maybe I need to rephrase that: It informs the *sender*.  What I like about
exit code 100 is that it doesn't queue the message and clog my queue.
Anyway, I've tested this.  It definitely passes the echo back.  Here is a
sample:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ***
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work
out.

<***@*.net>:
Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry.


James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor
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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Mike Leone]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/13/02 at 21:43: 

> Maybe I need to rephrase that: It informs the *sender*.  What I like about
> exit code 100 is that it doesn't queue the message and clog my queue.
> Anyway, I've tested this.  It definitely passes the echo back.  Here is a
> sample:
> 
> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ***
> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work
> out.
> 
> <***@*.net>:
> Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry.

Hmmm. I'll have to try this with my postfix installation here at home. I
don't recall seeing anything that indicated it would behave similarly, but
perhaps it does. I am running maildrop as MDA, too.

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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Maxime Ritter]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:00:07PM -0500, Mike Leone wrote: 
> > > > if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/)) 
> > > > { 
> > > > echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."  
> > > >   EXITCODE=100 
> > > >   exit 
> > > > } 
> > Maybe I need to rephrase that: It informs the *sender*.  What I like about
> > exit code 100 is that it doesn't queue the message and clog my queue.
> > Anyway, I've tested this.  It definitely passes the echo back.  Here is a
> > sample:
> > 
> > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ***
> > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> > addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work
> > out.
> > 
> > <***@*.net>:
> > Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry.
> 
> Hmmm. I'll have to try this with my postfix installation here at home. I
> don't recall seeing anything that indicated it would behave similarly, but
> perhaps it does. I am running maildrop as MDA, too.

I'm interested: did it finally work with postfix ?

Thanks.


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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[up]

Actually, this *appeared* to work in testing, but once in production, it
became pretty clear that the exitcode wasn't doing what I had
thought/hoped; keeping bounce messages out of the queue.

The only other way I know of dealing with this at the MDA level is to
route rejected email to /dev/null, which would mean that legit email
caught by SA (there has been some) would be lost without any notification
of the sender, which isn't acceptable.

I know of no way to use SA at the MTA level with qmail, and don't use
Postfix. :-/

On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Maxime Ritter wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:00:07PM -0500, Mike Leone wrote:
> > > > > if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/))
> > > > > {
> > > > >   echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."
> > > > >   EXITCODE=100
> > > > >   exit
> > > > > }
> > > Maybe I need to rephrase that: It informs the *sender*.  What I like about
> > > exit code 100 is that it doesn't queue the message and clog my queue.
> > > Anyway, I've tested this.  It definitely passes the echo back.  Here is a
> > > sample:
> > >
> > > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ***
> > > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> > > addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work
> > > out.
> > >
> > > <***@*.net>:
> > > Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry.
> >
> > Hmmm. I'll have to try this with my postfix installation here at home. I
> > don't recall seeing anything that indicated it would behave similarly, but
> > perhaps it does. I am running maildrop as MDA, too.
>
> I'm interested: did it finally work with postfix ?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
>Maxime Ritter|French Computer Geek
> Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Jabber : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Robert James Kaes]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Actually, this *appeared* to work in testing, but once in production, it
> became pretty clear that the exitcode wasn't doing what I had
> thought/hoped; keeping bounce messages out of the queue.
> 
> The only other way I know of dealing with this at the MDA level is to
> route rejected email to /dev/null, which would mean that legit email
> caught by SA (there has been some) would be lost without any notification
> of the sender, which isn't acceptable.
> 
> I know of no way to use SA at the MTA level with qmail, and don't use
> Postfix. :-/

What I've done to use SA with qmail is to put in the .qmail file
something like:

|/usr/local/bin/spamassassin.sh

Where spamassassin.sh is shell script which calls spamc and then checks to
see if the message was tagged as spam.  If so is calls something like
this to bounce the message:

  if [[ $message_score -ge $spam_limit ]]; then
exec bouncesaying "Your Email was Rejected by out SPAM filters."
  fi

Otherwise it delivers the message using the "maildir" command and exits
with a return value of 0.  If you'd like I can post my script.  It also
does a bunch of other things like pull the spam_limit from a SQL database,
and also handle the forwarding of email to a remote address.
-- Robert

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Re: [SAtalk] Spam Rejection Message

[Mike Leone]

Maxime Ritter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) had this to say on 12/29/02 at 13:27: 
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:00:07PM -0500, Mike Leone wrote: 
> > > > > if ((/^X-Spam-Status:.*Yes/)) 
> > > > > { 
> > > > >   echo "Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry."  
> > > > >   EXITCODE=100 
> > > > >   exit 
> > > > > } 
> > > Maybe I need to rephrase that: It informs the *sender*.  What I like about
> > > exit code 100 is that it doesn't queue the message and clog my queue.
> > > Anyway, I've tested this.  It definitely passes the echo back.  Here is a
> > > sample:
> > > 
> > > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ***
> > > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> > > addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work
> > > out.
> > > 
> > > <***@*.net>:
> > > Your Email was Rejected by our SPAM filters. Sorry.
> > 
> > Hmmm. I'll have to try this with my postfix installation here at home. I
> > don't recall seeing anything that indicated it would behave similarly, but
> > perhaps it does. I am running maildrop as MDA, too.
> 
> I'm interested: did it finally work with postfix ?

Haven't tried it yet, sorry. One day, perhaps.

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