Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Olaf Schmidt]

"D. Richard Hipp"  schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:64f6bda6-2a04-4d46-aa08-901a6138c...@hwaci.com...

> See http://www.fossil-scm.org/ for more information on
> fossil.  Fossil is self-hosting, btw.

It's a real nice (and small!) SCM and I consider to use it for
the planned LGPL-opening of my COM-based sqlite-wrapper-
and -RPC-library.

That planned opening will be hosted on a dedicated servermachine,
which will support both - a (readonly) WebBrowser-Client
over Port 80 (more or less directly served by the Fossil-engine) -
but also a dedicated RichClient-Application (a "project-client"),
which works against the same online-host over the usual RPC-
Port my library is using.

My question is related to the GPL-license the Fossil-engine
is based on - regarding compatibility with my own stuff, which
will (needs to) be LGPL-based.

At the serverside I see no larger problems - two services,
running side-by-side - the RPC-service with no "direct linking"
to the Fossil-service.

But at the clientside I'd like to interact more closely with the
Fossil-engine (the ideal way would be a library-based Fossil-
engine which runs InProcess within the RichClient-App).

That RichClient-App licensed under LGPL - making use
of the new LGPL-licensed sqlitewrapper- and communication-
library - so, do you see any chance, how I can achieve
such a tighter integration without the need to "lower" my
planned LGPL-license to GPL?

What I would like to achieve is, that my solution is
usable within commercial contexts - and the LGPL-
license is not that restrictive in that regard, also in
terms of (re)distribution.

I'm not (yet) that "fluent" with regards to LGPL/GPL
compatibility - so, "how to interface" in the best way
with fossil with regards to easy (re)distribution and
usage of a "developer-package" (which later on
wants become a full-blown IDE with integrated SCM-
support - used also in commercial contexts)?

I'd be willing to also contribute to the fossil-project
(e.g. a COM-based fossil-interface-wrapper, released
 under GPL - if that is of any help - but as I see it - that
 would shift the GPL/LGPL "interfacing-issues" only one
 layer "away").


Olaf Schmidt



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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Noah Hart]

>How do you plan to statically link your new library into multiple
projects? 
>Are you planning to make a copy of the code files for each C# project
that uses Sqlite? 

I use the "Add as Link". 

Again my goal was not to create a reusable library, but rather as a
programming challenge to learn C#


>I don't think you'll be able to do this for assemblies written in any
other language, 
>e.g. VB.NET. In fact, people using these languages are basically locked
out of your library, 
>at least without a wrapper to make it a DLL (I think).

Correct, those who want to use it in other languages, can use existing
dlls, which work just fine.  
For example, the  SQLite ADO.NET Provider from sqlite.phxsoftware.com is
an excellent solution

>Also, this approach (making copies of the code) introduces parallel
maintenance issues, esp. 
True

>There is also the "Add as Link" feature, which is similar to #include
in C++. 
I had to recreate TCL for C# as well in order to run the test harness;
So I use the Add as Link for both the test harness as well as the shell
application


>I don't mean to defy your disclaimer; these are topics of some
practical importance to me. 
>I deal with C++ / Sqlite apps daily that may eventually need to be
(rapidly) transitioned to C#. 
>My growing sentiment is that .NET does not really lend itself to
this... I guess I want "#include" from C++.

You can call SQLite from C# by using existing wrappers.  Again, my goal
was to learn OOP using something I could use.

>Another area I miss "#include" is in declaring simple constants; 

YUP -- this was a real challenge in the porting.

Regards,

Noah



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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[D. Richard Hipp]

On Jul 9, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Noah Hart wrote:

>
> BACKGROUND:
> In order to learn C#, I have spent the last year converting the  
> source code
> of SQLite3 from C to C#. As of version 3.6.16, it is now ready to  
> release in
> the wild. I don't want to self-host CVS or some other repository, so  
> I am
> trying to decide where to post the code.
>
> My goals for this are simple. I just want to allow people to  
> download the
> source code, submit feedback, bug reports, etc.
>
> I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few  
> others.
> However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the  
> real
> world.
>
> Any suggestions from your personal experience would be appreciated.

If you can convince a few prominent contributors to this mailing list  
(Igor Tandetnik, Roger Binns, members of the SQLite.org staff, etc.)  
to say this is a good project, then I will create a subdomain under  
sqlite.org (ex: csharp.sqlite.org) and set you up with a website with  
a fossil configuration management system on which to host your  
project.  See http://www.fossil-scm.org/ for more information on  
fossil.  Fossil is self-hosting, btw.

The above offer applies to any open-source project related to SQLite.


>
> DISCLAIMER:
> This port was done simply to learn C#, and then embed SQLite3 into a  
> C#
> application without the need for a dll.  Please no criticism for  
> doing this,
> or a discussion of if it was advisable to port SQLite3 to C# in the  
> first
> place.
>
> Also, I know this is off-topic, but I am really interested in your
> suggestions.  If you want to flame me, please reply directly, and  
> not to the
> list.
>
> Regards,
>
> Noah Hart
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Pros-and-cons-of-various-online-code-sharing-sites-tp24413069p24413069.html
> Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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D. Richard Hipp
d...@hwaci.com



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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Beau Wilkinson]

I wholeheartedly agree about the importance of source control, even though my 
specific advice didn't really involve that.

To the OP in particular:
How do you plan to statically link your new library into multiple projects? Are 
you planning to make a copy of the code files for each C# project that uses 
Sqlite? I don't think you'll be able to do this for assemblies written in any 
other language, e.g. VB.NET. In fact, people using these languages are 
basically locked out of your library, at least without a wrapper to make it a 
DLL (I think).

Also, this approach (making copies of the code) introduces parallel maintenance 
issues, esp. if you end up with multiple copies of the library on your own 
computer. I guess the existence of parallel copies is acceptable - even 
desirable - under some circumstances, I just wonder if you've considered these 
issues. There is also the "Add as Link" feature, which is similar to #include 
in C++. I have never worked through all of the issues re. source control and 
"Add as Link," although I suspect this can be made to work.

I don't mean to defy your disclaimer; these are topics of some practical 
importance to me. I deal with C++ / Sqlite apps daily that may eventually need 
to be (rapidly) transitioned to C#. My growing sentiment is that .NET does not 
really lend itself to this... I guess I want "#include" from C++.

Another area I miss "#include" is in declaring simple constants; should two 
different assemblies that, say, both need to know that WAKEUP_STRING means 
"~~~WTFU~~~" really have to use some kind of DLL or IPC mechanism at runtime to 
ascertain this fact? Or should they have parallel copies of, say, Contants.cs? 
Or should we use "Add as Link" and kludge around source control? I wonder if 
Microsoft really thought these things through, especially since it is there 
source control tool that so greatly mishandles "Add as Link."

Maybe you or someone else can dispel my confusion on these points. Someone once 
suggested to me that the best answer is to select "~~~WTFU~~~" (or whatever) 
from a "constants" table in a database. That seems like an arbitrary and 
unwelcome requirement, although if this really must be done, Sqlite might be 
the way to go.




From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On 
Behalf Of Roger Binns [rog...@rogerbinns.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:29 PM
To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Noah Hart wrote:
> I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few others.
> However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the real
> world.

TL;DR: Being familiar with DVCS is an important developer skill these
days. Concentrate on that.  I'd recommend Google Code, BitBucket and
then SF.

I can't speak for codeproject but can for the others.  Google code only
allows a small subset of licenses (a good thing) but doesn't include
public domain which is what SQLite itself is.  Google's mailing lists
are the best.  SF has horrendous mailing lists and web interface.  SF
has over the last year or so added every bell and whistle imaginable
(wikis, bug trackers, trac etc).

What I would recommend is that you also take this as an opportunity to
learn how to use a DVCS.  The main players are git, mercurial and bzr
and you'll get adherents coming out of the woodwork for each, but they
are all far more similar than they are different.  Unless you love all
things Ubuntu, I'd recommend starting with mercurial and once
comfortable with it try out git to get a different perspective.  SF and
GoogleCode both support mercurial, and there is a dedicated mercurial
based hoster at http://www.bitbucket.org

 http://hgbook.red-bean.com/

Roger
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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Roger Binns]

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Hash: SHA1

Noah Hart wrote:
> I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few others.
> However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the real
> world.

TL;DR: Being familiar with DVCS is an important developer skill these
days. Concentrate on that.  I'd recommend Google Code, BitBucket and
then SF.

I can't speak for codeproject but can for the others.  Google code only
allows a small subset of licenses (a good thing) but doesn't include
public domain which is what SQLite itself is.  Google's mailing lists
are the best.  SF has horrendous mailing lists and web interface.  SF
has over the last year or so added every bell and whistle imaginable
(wikis, bug trackers, trac etc).

What I would recommend is that you also take this as an opportunity to
learn how to use a DVCS.  The main players are git, mercurial and bzr
and you'll get adherents coming out of the woodwork for each, but they
are all far more similar than they are different.  Unless you love all
things Ubuntu, I'd recommend starting with mercurial and once
comfortable with it try out git to get a different perspective.  SF and
GoogleCode both support mercurial, and there is a dedicated mercurial
based hoster at http://www.bitbucket.org

 http://hgbook.red-bean.com/

Roger
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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LykAniJas2Yy/iemeVyuma6kxRwrfui2
=kExD
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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Beau Wilkinson]

By the way, Noah, I think share your feelings about DLL-free static linking in 
.NET. It ought to be easier to statically link to libraries in .NET, e.g. to 
create a truly standalone .EXE. This oversight is one of the main reasons I now 
avoid .NET.

In particular, C# doesn't have "#include" or anything like it, except that 
Visual Studio does provide an "Add as Link" option for existing files which 
statically links to them. The "link" gets converted into a project-specific 
copy if you add the project to SourceSafe, though. This happens silently, even 
though it introduces a very undesirable parallel maintenance burden!

-
Beau Wilkinson
Software Development Engineer, DP
MARINE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
985-612-1313 (office)
x52913 (ECO phone)
985-705-5203 (cell)

From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On 
Behalf Of Noah Hart [n...@lipmantpa.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:09 AM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: [sqlite]  Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

BACKGROUND:
In order to learn C#, I have spent the last year converting the source code
of SQLite3 from C to C#. As of version 3.6.16, it is now ready to release in
the wild. I don't want to self-host CVS or some other repository, so I am
trying to decide where to post the code.

My goals for this are simple. I just want to allow people to download the
source code, submit feedback, bug reports, etc.

I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few others.
However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the real
world.

Any suggestions from your personal experience would be appreciated.

DISCLAIMER:
This port was done simply to learn C#, and then embed SQLite3 into a C#
application without the need for a dll.  Please no criticism for doing this,
or a discussion of if it was advisable to port SQLite3 to C# in the first
place.

Also, I know this is off-topic, but I am really interested in your
suggestions.  If you want to flame me, please reply directly, and not to the
list.

Regards,

Noah Hart

--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Pros-and-cons-of-various-online-code-sharing-sites-tp24413069p24413069.html
Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Beau Wilkinson]

In my personal experience Code Project is the most useful, especially if you 
work heavily with C#.

I have worked with SourceForge and my personal opinion is that it's a bit too 
UNIX-oriented for my taste. I love UNIX, and use (for example) Cygwin and MinGW 
very extensively for development work. But for mundane chores like browsing the 
Web, learning about a project, downloading and decompressing its code, etc. the 
reality of 2009 is that I'm working in Windows and CodeProject seems to respect 
that more than SourceForge.

And I will respect your disclaimer, but I am having to grab my arm a la Dr. 
Strangelove to do so. What's done is done.
-
Beau Wilkinson
Software Development Engineer, DP
MARINE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
985-612-1313 (office)
x52913 (ECO phone)
985-705-5203 (cell)

From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On 
Behalf Of Noah Hart [n...@lipmantpa.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:09 AM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: [sqlite]  Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

BACKGROUND:
In order to learn C#, I have spent the last year converting the source code
of SQLite3 from C to C#. As of version 3.6.16, it is now ready to release in
the wild. I don't want to self-host CVS or some other repository, so I am
trying to decide where to post the code.

My goals for this are simple. I just want to allow people to download the
source code, submit feedback, bug reports, etc.

I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few others.
However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the real
world.

Any suggestions from your personal experience would be appreciated.

DISCLAIMER:
This port was done simply to learn C#, and then embed SQLite3 into a C#
application without the need for a dll.  Please no criticism for doing this,
or a discussion of if it was advisable to port SQLite3 to C# in the first
place.

Also, I know this is off-topic, but I am really interested in your
suggestions.  If you want to flame me, please reply directly, and not to the
list.

Regards,

Noah Hart

--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Pros-and-cons-of-various-online-code-sharing-sites-tp24413069p24413069.html
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[sqlite] Pros and cons of various online code sharing sites

[Noah Hart]

BACKGROUND:
In order to learn C#, I have spent the last year converting the source code
of SQLite3 from C to C#. As of version 3.6.16, it is now ready to release in
the wild. I don't want to self-host CVS or some other repository, so I am
trying to decide where to post the code.

My goals for this are simple. I just want to allow people to download the
source code, submit feedback, bug reports, etc.

I have looked at sourceforge, googlecode, codeproject and a few others.
However, while they all look fine, I not sure what works well in the real
world.

Any suggestions from your personal experience would be appreciated.

DISCLAIMER:  
This port was done simply to learn C#, and then embed SQLite3 into a C#
application without the need for a dll.  Please no criticism for doing this,
or a discussion of if it was advisable to port SQLite3 to C# in the first
place.

Also, I know this is off-topic, but I am really interested in your
suggestions.  If you want to flame me, please reply directly, and not to the
list.

Regards,

Noah Hart

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Pros-and-cons-of-various-online-code-sharing-sites-tp24413069p24413069.html
Sent from the SQLite mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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