Re: Diamond Head Draw Bar Pull Results

[Jeffrey Williams]

Great reporting, Bruce!  Fun events such as this and folks with a fine 
sense of humor are what makes live-steaming such a great hobby!

Doesn't a Cricket qualify as a "geared" locomotive, though?
Jeff Williams

Bruce Gathman wrote:
Here are the results from the 2005 Diamondhead International Small Scale Steamup
Draw Bar Pull.  As in the past two years the Bruce Gathman designed measuring
device was used in the event.  Twenty-one locomotives and one dog competed in
the competition.  Use the results for comparison between the different models
tested and any you might own.  * designates the most powerful in the category.
1 Axel Powered
*Bob McHale  "Wood Thing" BAGRS  18.8 oz
 He needs some competition next year.  The "three years and your out rule"
applies in 2007 if he wins again next year.
2 Axels Powered
*Sal Martoucci   Roundhouse Sammie   42.0 oz
Mike Simpson Roundhouse Sammie   37.4 oz
Dave Graley  Rishon 7/8ths Forney24.1 oz
Bryan DeKleles   Accucraft Ruby   7.8 oz
Tracy LeeAccucraft Fort Wilderness   19.9 oz
 No deduction for ear piercing whistle of the burner and the noxious smell
of burning paint!
Bob StarrAccucraft Ruby  11.9 oz
Jeff Young   Scratch Victoria 4.7 oz
Walt SchwartzBerkley Cricket  9.0 oz
3 Axels Powered
Peter Jobush Argyle Ten Wheeler  33.3 oz
*Bob Starr   Accucraft Superior  48.9 oz
 Wow, an 0-6-0 pulled as much as a Mikado!
4 Axels Powered
Jan DeKeles Aristo Craft Mikado  48.9 oz
 Looks like this will be an outstanding locomotive for the price.  Too bad
the Aster Berkshire wasn't tested!
Tim Hytrek  Accucraft C-21   44.4 oz
Dave Barker Accucraft K-27   64.9 oz
*David Bailey   Accucraft/DJB C-21   84.0 oz
 Claimed handicap having to coal fire left handed.
Doug Joslyn Accucraft C-21   39.7 oz
Geared Locos
Bill Payne  Aster 2 Truck Climax 47.3 oz
*Tim Hytrek Accucraft 3 Cyl Shay 53.6 oz
Dave Barker Accucraft 2 Cyl Shay 44.4 oz
Mike BennettAccucraft 2 Cyl Shay 34.5 oz
Al Sadler   Aster 3 Truck Climax 16.5 oz
4 Pawed (new special category - limited to less than 10 pounds overall 
weight.)
*Wolfgang JobushBreed Not Specified  69.9 oz
 Toe nail sharpening is not allowed in this category.

Thanks to Bill Burgess and Jim Sanders for their help running this contest.
Bruce Gathman
Eldorado Timber and Mining Company
Tall Trees - Deep Shafts
Live Steam Shay Locomotives and Lots of Logs Cars!
Bruce G. Gathman,
President

Re: Looking for Arthur

[Jeffrey Williams]

This is the last email address I have for him:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jim Curry wrote:
Does anyone have Arthur Cohen's email?
Thanks.
Jim
 

Brinelling check valves

[Jeffrey Williams]

"Brinelling" comes from:
Brinell, Johan August (1849-1925)
Swedish engineer who devised the Brinell hardness test, for measuring 
the hardness of substances, in 1900.

Brinell was born in Småland and received a technical education in Borås. 
As chief engineer at an ironworks, he became interested in metallurgy. 
While studying the internal composition of steel during heating and 
cooling, he devised the hardness test, which was put on trial at the 
Paris Exhibition 1900. It is based on the idea that a material's 
response to a load placed on one small point is related to its ability 
to deform permanently. Brinell also carried out investigations into the 
abrasion resistance of selected materials.

Note the sentence above "It is based on the idea that a material's 
response to a load placed on one small point is related to its ability 
to deform permanently." which is how the name relates to whacking the 
sacrificial ball to form a seat.

Now you REALLY know more than you ever wanted to know!!
=
Steve Shyvers wrote:
Royce,
Thanks for the link to Bal-tec. More than I thought I needed to know. 
All useful info, since I will be building a tender hand pump in the 
(hopefully) near future.

Jerry Reshew had an article in SitG a few years back about fixing leaky 
check valves using the hammer-blow brinelling technique. Jerry 
emphasized that the ball used to brinell the seat was sacrificial. In 
other words, throw it away after use and don't try to use it in the 
check valve. In anticipation of my own hand pump project I purchased a 
set of both steel and bronze balls from SSSM. The steel for the 
brinelling , and the bronze for the ball seals.

[Dang. That word "brinelling" is new to me and sure sounds useful. I'll 
start using it occaisionally during meetings at the office. Eventually 
someone will ask what it means, and I'll make some breezy allusion to a 
fictitious reference to a classic project management technique. Like 
"ensuring compliance to pre-qualified conformal parameters", as in 
"pounding a square peg into a round hole."]

As for your axle pump project, please don't get carried away and invest 
in a helium mass spectrometer leak detector.

Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi folks.
   In doing some surfing, I ran across this website.  Thought it might 
be helpful to those whose inclinations run towards designing their own.

http://www.precisionballs.com/BallCheckValves2.htm
I'm still working on the axle pump design for my Philly.  Check valves 
are an important part of the design.

royce in SB 

Aster Berkshire prototype

[Jeffrey Williams]

Check out:
http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/nkp%20berkshire-parts-2.htm
Look at all the levers in the photos of the cab!  Throttle, blower, 
reverser, fuel?   Cylinder cocks?

More beautiful work from Aster

[Jeffrey Williams]

Check out:
http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/nkp%20berkshire-parts.htm
to see some of the fantastic parts detail on how Aster is doing their 
Nickel Plate Road Berkshire

Off topic: Hamster-Powered Night Light

[Jeffrey Williams]

Live steamers aren't the only maniac tinkerers in the world!
http://www.otherpower.com/hamster.html

HIgh-tech liquid fuel vaporizer and burner

[Jeffrey Williams]

Check out:
http://www.vapore.com
these folks are claiming development of a capilary force fuel vaporizer 
that might have applicability to liquid fuel locos.  The website claims 
that the microcapillaries in the vaporizer provide both pressure and 
phase change of liquid fuels.  They have a video demo of it using kerosene.

According to an article in the August issue of Mechanical Engineering 
magazine, a mountaineering company, Mountain Safety Research is going to 
start selling a backpacking stove using this burner technology that will 
eliminate the need to carry pressurized fuel bottles, although this 
stove is not shown on MSRs website.  This stove is supposed to burn 
white gas.

So if these vaporizers can be tailored to burn kerosene and white gas 
they probably can be made to burn alcohol as well.  Perhaps this will be 
an answer to all the wick issues, pressurized fuel problems, etc that 
cause Ga1'ers grief.

Of course if it makes running a Ga1 loco too easy that's bad as well!

Re: Accucraft's newest

[Jeffrey Williams]

Accucraft demo'ed their 0-6-0 at the National Summer Steamup in 
Sacramento a few weeks ago.  Cliff said the price is likely $2000.  The 
loco pulled 8-10 Accucraft reefers with ease around a 4 foot radius loop 
for what seemed to be a very long run.

Cliff also indicated that a 1/32 boxcar was in the works
=
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was able to steal a few hours and go to the Garden Railway convention here
in Denver. Accucraft had their beautiful Daylight on display and next to it
was a little SP 0-6-0 switcher in 1:32 scale and it gets better LIVE STEAM.
It is a prototype that is due to be released in December. Detail was very
nice. I didn't get particulars on cost. They did bring it out to the outdoor
track and gave it a run. Pics are posted on my webspace at
http://xxyz.home.mindspring.com/
Also, If you have broadband check out the challenger.mpg. Sorry 'bout the
quality of the filming but the sound is great.
Ken
Lafayette, CO
 

High temperature wire - also small LEDs

[Jeffrey Williams]

Someone on this forum had a source for small quantities of very small 
diameter high-temperature wire, suitable to wiring headlights and 
running through the smokebox.  Discussion was maybe 6-9 months ago.

Anyone have this reference handy?
Also, does anyone have a source for white LEDs smaller than the common 
3mm diameter?

Thanks

Re: Sectional Track

[Jeffrey Williams]

The two-foot gauge railroad used to harvest sugar cane on the Grove Farm 
Plantation on the Hawaiian island of Kauai also used sectional track, 
moved from field to field as different parts of the plantation were 
harvested.  Grove Farm still maintains some of their steam locos (both 
US and European-built) in running condition, although they only have a 
few hundred feet of track remaining.


Steve Shyvers wrote:
 Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including 
a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or 
maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, 
Tahiti about 1918.

Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg
The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out 
to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype 
for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is 
contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch 
points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech 
switches.

Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a 
docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was 
hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24" tall. Four of these baskets 
were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of 
power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars 
were moved by hand.

The photo is in Captain L.R.W. Beavis' wonderful autobiography 'Passage:
From Sail to Steam'.
The book is full of superb photos of sailing ships, many of which were 
taken by Captain Beavis. He may have taken the photo in Papeete. All the 
photos are from his private collection.

Steve

Re: Imported steam - can the US compete?

[Jeffrey Williams]

Wasn't ASTER a manufacturer of mechanical calculators who switched to 
live steam locos after electronic calculators took over their market? 
In the US, Marchant Calculators Inc. couldn't figure out what to do with 
their capability to manufacture lots of very small precision moving 
parts and assemblies so made a different choice - they went out of 
business.

Ask Mike ("Cricket") O’Rourke about the trials and tribulations of 
manufacturing locos in the US.  This was a labor of love, not profit, or 
even break-even.

Several of us are building John Barrett coal-fired Atlantic kits from 
the UK.  Mr. Barrett is having production problems because one of his 
employees passed away and another has health problems associated with 
advanced age.  This is not an indication of vigorous capitalism at its 
finest.  This is an example of some dedicated craftsmen who do what they 
do for love, not money.

When you spend your $4000 at Accucraft for a China-built D&RGW K-27 
locomotive, I'll guess that $3000 of that stays in the US, either in 
import duties, taxes, salaries of American employees or profits.  When 
you spend $7000 for an ASTER locomotive I'll guess that a whole lot less 
than $3000 stays in the US.  Accucraft is US owned, their locomotives 
are US designed, mostly US developed, mostly US marketed, mostly US 
retailed and mostly US serviced.  That probably isn't true of ASTER.

My Toyota was designed in Toyota's California design studio (Toyota 
doesn't sell most US models in Japan), built in Lexington, Kentucky by 
United Auto Workers from a mixture of US, Canadian and Japanese 
manufactured parts.  Did I buy an imported car?

The only way to beat low-labor-cost manufacturers is to maximize 
automation and minimize labor costs so that shipping costs and delays 
from overseas negate the labor cost competitiveness of imports.  Check 
out the "imported" tires on your car.  The "French" Michelins on my 
"Japanese" Toyota are made in the US, just like the car.  The reason 
that this works is that tires and cars have a very high production 
quantity, low profit per cubic foot and low profit per pound and the 
manufacture of which can be significantly automated.  The problem with 
live steam locomotives in this context is that they are inherently low 
production quantity and are high cost per volume and high cost per 
pound, so the shipping cost advantage is significantly reduced.

So here's the dream/fantasy:  Paperless CAD design, computer simulation 
for development (see Mike Martin's www.panyo.com), 3-D photolithography 
to check assembly, look, fit and feel, automatic electronic translation 
of CAD drawings to tool paths on machine tools: Numerically Controlled 
(NC) lathe, NC milling machine, NC precision grinder, NC laser cutter, 
NC sheet metal punch and NC sheet metal forming tools. Inert gas or 
vacuum furnace brazing, instead of torch to make boilers.  Capital 
investment of a couple million bucks required.  Then of course, you 
still need real (paid in Dollars) people to paint, assemble, test, 
decal, package, ship the product.  Now the really difficult question: 
Can you do it with 200 unit-sized production runs and not go broke? 
Clearly ASTER is able to do it.  The Japanese worker makes pretty a 
large fraction of the salary of a US worker.

Is it possible for a US manufacturer to compete with foreign 
manufacturers of live-steam locomotives?  "Maybe" is my answer.  I 
applaud anyone with a lot of capital and nerve who will try it and above 
all, anyone who will regard it as a labor of love, not profit.


Gary wrote:
Speaking of buying American, I have Chevy and Dodge van, but since our kids
have graduated from college we are looking over roadsters and most are
imports that catch our eye.  Trains, hmmm, let's see, I buy from American
hobby shops, but most is made in Germany, Japan, China or Switzerland. This
is a tough hobby to buy American unless we buy a custom made item. I don't
think any track is made here other than Sunset Valley
http://www.svrronline.com/ and Laagas Creek http://www.llagastrack.com/.  I
didn't want aluminum and I discovered Sunset Valley after I had laid my
track. H & R Trains track is French I believe and far more expensive than
Aristo Craft's China made rail.   If LGB can manufacture in Germany and
compete world wide, why can't we in the USA?
If anyone has a list of actually made in good ol USA garden train products,
I would be interested in keeping that list handy.
Speaking of smoking . . . I don't, but club members have suggested when I
move to have a trestle fire.  Some want to watch the trestle burn and others
want me to sell or give away bents.  I expect a fire would require fire
permits and a pumper truck with engine idling otherwise I would burn down
two or more trees.
Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
 

Relative position of gas jet in burner?

[Jeffrey Williams]

Is there some wisdom out there about the optimal position of the gas jet 
in a butane burner relative to the air holes?

I'm trying to beat back the screaming whistle from my Accucraft K-27 
burners.

I noticed that the exit of the gas jet orifice is about 1/16 inch 
upstream (toward the butane supply) from the upsteam edge of the air 
holes.  The four airholes are 3/16 inch diameter.

Moving the jets farther upstream didn't change the whistle.  Now I'm 
wondering about moving the jet downstream.  Since this will require 
trimming metal off the burner, I want to see if anyone out there thinks 
that this will help, or just ruin the burners.

It seems to me that the current position of the jet is akin to blowing 
air across the top of a bottle.

If the jet exit orifice were at the air holes, or even slightly 
downstream, will the pipe organ effect be diminished?

Re: Jeff reports Daylight

[Jeffrey Williams]

Purchaser's choice of butane or alcohol is correct.  The Diamondhead 
reports were of very quick steamup with butane (a few minutes) so either 
Accucraft has vastly improved the butane burners or else they were 
lighting off with boiler water at a very low level and then counting on 
the pump to fill up the boiler while hot.

I chose the alcohol for two reasons - first, I don't have an alcohol 
fueled loco and want to try it and second, I'm planning on pulling the 
full string of Daylight cars so will likely need near-full throttle so 
want lots of steam generating capability.

I have no info other than the Daimondhead reports as to tender and axle 
pumps.  Since the new 3 cylinder Shay comes standard with a tender pump, 
I wouldn't be surprised that the Daylight will as well.

Unknown on piston rings

Accucraft may have revised the radius limit after actually building the 
prototype.  The website says that the cars require 10 foot radius as 
well so it may not be relevent if the loco will traverse tighter turns. 
 A locomotive this long will look funny on tight turns, anyway.

==



Gary wrote:
Good news indeed Jeff!
That engine has entranced me since they announced it years ago.
Do you know?
If the pistons will have rings or not?
If it will be available in butane or alcohol as a purchaser choice?
If a butane version will simply make life simple by installing radiant
burners?
If production will have the option or simply come standard with a tender
pump?
The Accucraft site states flanged operation should be 10' minimum radius or
20' diameter curves.  Were specs changed since they posted the very basic
info on http://www.accucraft.com/AC98001.htm?
I don't expect you to know all of the answers to the above queries, but one
can always hope!
Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary
http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
Message Number: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:46:43 -0800
From: Jeffrey Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Accucraft Daylight must be near!
I received a call this morning from the dealer with whom I've placed an
order for an Accucraft live steam Daylight.
They wanted to know if I wanted flanged or blind center drivers and the
butane or alcohol fuel version.  Minimum radius on the flanged drivers
is 8 feet.  I went with the flanged and alchohol versions.
The dealer said that Accucraft was starting production and that I should
expect my unit in 60 days.
 

Accucraft Daylight must be near!

[Jeffrey Williams]

I received a call this morning from the dealer with whom I've placed an 
order for an Accucraft live steam Daylight.

They wanted to know if I wanted flanged or blind center drivers and the 
butane or alcohol fuel version.  Minimum radius on the flanged drivers 
is 8 feet.  I went with the flanged and alchohol versions.

The dealer said that Accucraft was starting production and that I should 
expect my unit in 60 days.

Testing fuel tanks

[Jeffrey Williams]

I'm concerned that there is an impression out there that there exists 
some standard or traditional test pressure that is correct for all fuel 
tanks or other pressure vessels (including boilers).  Various numbers 
like 350 psi or 160 psi have been proposed.  My recently purchased 
Accucraft 3-cylinder Shay came with a certificate which claims that the 
butane fuel tank was tested to 160 psi.

There is an old adage in mechanical engineering that says "you can't 
test in safety" - or maybe it's an adage of old mechanical engineers - I 
can't remember!

The safety of a system comes from its design, including dimensions,
material selection, joining techniques, reinforcing details, 
penetrations and a host of other factors, not from one "proof" test. 
Testing of a system can be done to verify analysis done in support of 
the design, but a vessel that is tested, intensionally or accidentally, 
to stress levels above the yield strength of even one of its components 
is not a safe vessel, because the test has already caused the material, 
joints, reinforcements and/or penetrations to plastically deform and 
become unsafe.  The only possible way that pressure testing "guarantees" 
safety is if a manufacturer is willing to subject a very large number of 
identical vessels to a test-to-failure to gather statistics that also 
support the original design limits of a vessel.

Yes, it is possible that a single pressure test, if improperly defined 
and carried out can in fact decrease safety, rather than ensure it.

The ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code has been around for almost a 
century in order to bring science (and safety) to pressure vessel 
design, testing and operation.  The Code not only defines acceptable 
methods of design and construction, but also material selection, 
joining, repairing, inspection and testing.  University engineering 
libraries will have a copy of the Code if you are interested or you can 
buy it from ASME for a very large sum of money.

Pressure vessels are designed with a "safety factor" in mind (often a 
minimum factor of 3) to the yield strength of the materials used in 
construction of the vessel.  In other words, at maximum operating 
pressure and temperature, every part and component of the pressure 
vessel will experience stresses of no more than 1/3 of the yield 
strength of the material at that temperature.  Other safety factors may 
be chosen for different applications, depending on the consequence of 
failure and the precision with which the designer knows the as-built 
dimensions and material properties.  There are lots of subtleties like 
fracture toughness, stress concentrations, anticipated future loads, 
damage or corrosion and low-temperature transition temperatures, etc. 
that can also bite you if you're not careful.

It's my suggestion that people who do not have training and experience
in "strength of materials" calculations be incredibly careful when
embarking on the design and construction of any pressure vessel whether 
it's a fuel tank, boiler or other vessel.  Make friends with a trained 
mechanical (or sometimes chemical) engineer so that he or she can review 
your design and your fabrication and testing plans.  The live steam 
fraternity has plenty of us mechanical engineers who are attracted to 
the hobby because of its application of very pure and basic engineering 
principles, so you should be able to find someone of appropriate 
background who would be happy to review your pressure vessel design.

And please, if you feel very confident in your own analytical ability, 
review a copy of the ASME Code and get a copy of "Formulas for Stress 
and Strain" by R.J. Roark before you inadvertantly build yourself a bomb.

Re: Butane/Propane Fuel tank Pressure?

[Jeffrey Williams]

See "Notes from the Unit Shop": Kevin O'Connor's advice for the 
beginning small scale live steamer

http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/notes/bestfuelgas.htm

Kevin provides pressure vs temeprature for a number of gases and mixtures.

=



Ciambrone, Steve @ OS wrote:
I am considering building a fuel tank for my ruby and other engines large
enough that I do not have to stop during a run to refuel, I find it far more
difficult to keep the fuel from running out than the water.
Anyway what is the Maximum working pressure for a 30% Propane and 70% butane
fuel mixture (Primus)?  I would  perform a hydrostatic pressure test at
twice the working pressure on the finished tank.
Thanks
Steve 

Accucraft 1:32 freight car

[Jeffrey Williams]

A webpage showing a really nice 1:32 refrigerator car showed up recently 
on the Accucraft/AMS website.

See

http://www.amstrains.com/main1-32.htm

Hopefully this implies that more 1:32 motive power from Accucraft is on 
the way!

Announcing arrival of a new (3 cylinder) baby!

[Jeffrey Williams]

UPS delivered my Accucraft 3 cylinder Shay this afternoon.  Serial #2 if 
I read the paperwork correctly.

It's a thing of beauty and complexity!

It comes with some assembly required and no assembly instructions so it 
will likely be a few days before I get to fire it up.

Some new-to-Accucraft features that weren't advertized that I already like:

1.  Hinged cab roof instead of the fiddly slide-on roof per other 
Accucraft live steamers

2.  Water pump inside water/fuel tank.  Tank volume probably around 16 oz.

Dwight Ennis took delivery of his unit before New Years and posted some 
photos and a video on www.mylargescale.com/.  Go to forums and then live 
steam

Got to get moving on some rolling stock now - it will look silly pulling 
D&RGW cars!

And the big question - will it out-pull my K-27?

Re: Looking for Scale Drawings

[Jeffrey Williams]

"The Mudhens" by Dennis O'Berry has multiple photos of every K-27 built, 
providing a wealth of information for detailing your model.  This book 
is out of print, but I recently found my copy at the bookstore at the 
Western Railway Museum - they had a second copy.  Their website is:

http://www.wrm.org/

Jeff Williams

=

Bob Magill wrote:
Hello All 
Planning some detail work on my Accucraft K-27 and am looking for a source
of quality scale drawings/prints for same, as well as other famous Mikados
(K-series, C-series, etc). Anyone know of a source that might be selling
such drawings???
Thanks / Regards --- Bob
"Happy Steaming"
 

Re: Suggestions for Solder??

[Jeffrey Williams]

Check out

http://www.handyharmancanada.com/TheBrazingBook/bbook.htm

Lots of info on brazing materials.

Other manufacturers of brazing materials will have Handy and Harmon 
equivalent alloys



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,

I would like to get some of your thoughts on what kind of silver solder
"brazing silver" I should be looking to have on hand for the construction of
my "American project" locomotive.
In particular I would like to know if two solders with different flow
characteristics and melting points are preferred for building boilers over a
single solder. Some of the books mention using a high melting point solder
for the early work and a lower melting point for the later assembly. What is
your preferred method and please feel free to give brands and names of the
products you like to use. Keep in mind availability in the USA.
Also, I am going to attempt to produce a "built-up" cylinder "casting" for
the American. I am wondering if anyone who has made this kind of cylinder
assembly can shed some light on the fabrication methods used. Here is what I
have in mind. The cylinder blanks will be silver brazed to a saddle. This
assembly will have the steam passages milled across  the top. A cap will
then be soldered to cover the steam passages. The cylinders will be rough
bored and the steam ports milled through the cap and into the passages, the
passages from cylinder to valve port will be added now as well. The top of
the cap also is the face for the valves. The cylinders will be honed and
valve faces polished to finish.
The question is. Can I use brazing silver with different melting points to
solder the cylinders and later the cap or should I silver braze the
cylinders and use a much lower melting point silver solder to attach the
cap? If silver braze can be used for this assembly can it be the same as for
the boiler. The cylinder material is SAE 954 Aluminum bronze. The valve and
piston material will probably be 304 stainless. I will be using O-rings or
lubricated acetal for the cylinder rings so the only metal to metal contact
is at the valve faces.
I have a lot of experience (albeit 15 years ago) with brazing and soldering
(steel, brass and silver), so I am more interested in the technical aspects
of this kind of assembly and the products used, than I am in the basic
aspect of brazing.
This weekend I am planning to build my brazing table. I picked up some fire
bricks and am going to make a steel frame so the table can easily be moved
and stored when not in use. This will provide a nice fireproof work surface.
I have cut the lower saddle and cylinder blanks. However I think I am going
to remake the cylinder blanks a bit longer so that there is a bit of extra
length to allow for bell mouthing at the ends if the cylinder bores when
they are honed. The cylinders will be faced to length after the honing.
Thanks in advance

Ken
Lafayette, CO
 

Coal fired loco design details

[Jeffrey Williams]

I'm excitedly awaiting the delivery of the first of 12 kits for my John 
Barrett coal-fired Atlantic, starting this Spring and am contemplating 
some questions about "typical" coal-fired Ga1 locos.  I figured that 
learned subscribers to this message board  will have knowledge and 
opinions of value.  To wit:

1.  Do Ga1 coal fireboxes typically have water legs on the sides and 
back of the firebox?

2.  If not, is burn-through ever an issue?

3.  Should I expect a limited lifetime for the boiler, considering the 
significantly higher combustion temperatures of coal and corrosiveness 
of combustion products, compared to my butane experience?

4.  I imagine that the smokebox of coal fired locos is also very hot.  I 
witnessed blistered paint on Tony Dixon's Duchess as proof!  Does this 
cause other grief with high temperatures near the cylinders, pilot 
trucks, frame, etc?

5.  The kits come unpainted.  What are your experiences with paint types 
for hot-hot-hot surfaces?  I'm hoping for more variety than BBQ black!

6.  Is there any issue with cinders getting back into the cylinders 
through the exhaust and scoring the cylinders?

7.  Has anyone done any scientific tests of various coals to prove lower 
clinker-formation, higher BTU/lb, etc?  It seems to me that low residue 
is perhaps the most important feature of coal for Ga1 locos.

Thanks for your collective wisdom!

Re: Accucraft Spare Parts: Live Steam

[Jeffrey Williams]

Dan,

Contact Cliff Luscher directly at Accucraft.  He's been very responsive 
when I needed help.  His telephone number is: 510-324-3399.  If you send 
an email to Accucraft, put "Message for Cliff" in the subject line to be 
sure of reaching him.

Jeff

===

Daniel McGrath wrote:




Accucraft has some beautiful engines offered, it would be great if they 
could get their act together in regards to spare and replacement parts!  
I've been trying to get a complete parts list for the "Ruby", and as of 
yet, no joy.   I've requested their Illustrated parts catalog, had their 
glossy engine and rolling stock sheets sent. Finally got a very 
incomplete list of snow plows, one fuel tank, "trim" pieces nothing 
as far as drivers, steam valves, pistons you know the things that wear 
out and may need to be replaced.  At this point I am very surprised at 
how poor their customer service has been.   Dan McGrath.



 
 >From: Jeffrey Williams
 >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
 >Subject: Accucraft German website
 >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:41:03 -0800
 >
 >Check out
 >
 >http://www.accucraft.de/Produkte/produkte.html
 >
 >Not only does this website show several European-pattern locomotives
 >not shown on the US website, but also lists a live steam K-28!
 >


Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over 
limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2734??PS=>

Accucraft German website

[Jeffrey Williams]

Check out

http://www.accucraft.de/Produkte/produkte.html

Not only does this website show several European-pattern locomotives not 
shown on the US website, but also lists a live steam K-28!

Re: knock, knock ...

[Jeffrey Williams]

Dave,

Been working on my track - only 16 more posts (out of 45) to go in - 
holes are dug for all posts.  Cross pieces and stringers are on for 
about 1/3 of track.  Gary Broeder and Tom King are building my switches 
- including a #8 double crossover - maybe Llagas Creek's largest piece 
of trackwork to date - seven feet long!  My goal is first steamup by 
Thanksgiving - to spite Doubting Tony!

We did have an improptu steamup at Dan Liebowitz' two weekends ago so 
that Dan and I could try doubleheading our K-27's - a new acquisition 
for Dan.  Dan's "scenic loop" is in great shape.  Tom King has made some 
major track improvements - basically Dan now has a triple track mainline 
around the elevated track section with the outer loop taking the scenic 
route!

Haven't lost interest - been deep in it!

Jeff Williams

=

Dave Cole wrote:
i'd ask if the list were ok, but i can sit here and look at the robot 
and all is well ...

this is probably the longest we've gone without any message traffic ... 
has everybody lost interest in small scale live steam?

\dmc

Re: Calling Zbigniew R. Struzik

[Jeffrey Williams]

My reply offline to Zbig. worked fine.

I used:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Chuck Walters wrote:
Pardon the intrusion fellow listserv members.  Zbigniew Struzik contacted me
the other day for some info on the K-27's and when I tried to reply to him
off list, I got bounced back with an invalid address.  Zbigniew, please try
again to send me an email off list so I may reply back.  Thank you and again
I am sorry for the intrusion.
Chuck Walters
Twin Lakes Railway
http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
 

Has anyone tried Netscape 7.1?

[Jeffrey Williams]

Have any of you on-line upgraded from Netscape 7.0 to 7.1?

Did you have any problems?

Is there any improvement?

Re: Accucraft K-27

[Jeffrey Williams]

Chuck,

I have a green #461.  It will be featured in a review in the 
soon-to-be-delivered Steam in the Garden.  You can see photos of it by 
Mike Martin at:

http://www.panyo.com/dan2/

My K-27 is on photos # 1, 7, 10, 12, 13

In addition, I will send you photos by off-line email

I am very pleased with this loco - looks great and runs great.  Not a 
loco for a beginner, though - a few teething problems at first but 
eventually can be wrung out.  Needs a lot of clearance to the scenery, 
though!

Jeff Williams

==

Chuck Walters wrote:
Does anyone have pictures of the K-27 in the 453 or the 461 in green paint
schemes posted someplace?  I would love to take a look at each before I
order.
Chuck Walters
Twin Lakes Railway
http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
 

New topic - Portugal

[Jeffrey Williams]

Ann and I are planning a trip this Fall to Portugal and the Azores. 
There are lots of 1:1 scale railroads on the mainland, per our maps amd 
guides, which we plan to ride.

Do any of you know of Ga1 enthusiasts in Portugal or the Azores?  It 
would be great fun to make contact while we were there.

Thanks

Jeff

Re: Steel supports for my iron horse

[Jeffrey Williams]

Clark - thanks double!  More great construction details!

==

Clark Lord wrote:
Jeffrey Williams wrote:

Great photos, Clark - very instructive!


Glad you liked them.  I selected just a few of the hundreds I've taken. 
 I have documented every feature of my layout as it was constructed.

This layout is sturdy enough to support my 375 pounds.  I can and have 
walked on the top without fear of damaging anything.  As time goes by, 
I'm sure we will have to replace all the wooden posts.

The wooden posts on the East end which support the 60 foot (19 foot 
diameter) loop and the East dual main line trackage are from my original 
(phase 1) 20 foot diameter circle of track I installed in 1992.  They 
are still very sturdy so no need to change them out.

The ones in the middle of the layout that get sprinkled all the time 
when watering the grass are the ones rotting away. Duh!

I have used different sizes and kinds of fasteners.  I now use just two. 
 First is the one that attaches the 3/4 inch plywood layout top to the 
metal side rails.  It is #10 x 1.25 inches long self drilling with a 
large built in flat washer.  The top is phillips drive.  I get mine at 
Home Depot.  They are made specifically to attach plywood to metal studs.

When we used #6 and #8 galivanized deck screws we twisted off the heads 
of 1/3 of them during installation.  And when the plywood swelled with 
rain moisture the heads would pop off.  Sounds like a gun going off.

Now we get about 4 inches of rain a year in Las Vegas.  When we had 
three days straight of slow drizzle one Fall, all of the plywood swelled 
and the center sections attempted to raise up.  That's when the screws 
failed.

I use 3/4 inch CDX roof sheathing.  It calls for 1/8 inch clearance on 
all sides.  I butted the ends and the buckling was the result.  You have 
to leave room for expansion.  All new plywood has that 1/8 inch gap.

The second fastener is a 1/4 inch hex drive self drilling screw that 
attaches the metal to the posts.

I use Henry's roofing materials.  I use Beyher opaque stain to coat the 
plywood two coats top and bottom before attaching to the structure.  I 
selected gray but any color will do.  I get it in 5 gal pails at Home 
Depot.  We roll it on with a regular house painting roller.  That's why 
it takes a day or two to get ready for the next building session.  I'm 
painting plywood.

We use battery drills with phillips bits to drive the fasteners.  Some 
times we use my 35 year old Skill 3/8 variable speed drill to drive 
fasteners.

We put the plywood down in full size sheets.  We fasten it to the metal 
and cross braces.  Then we use my 3 hp router with a straight cut bit 
with a ball bearing to trim the plywood to size.  The bit is carbide and 
1 inch long.  The bearing rides on the metal and you just slide along 
and cut off the excess plywood.

When we are on the curves we still put on a full sheet, attach and use 
the router to trim off the excess.  The excess then is used for the next 
curve.  You can get two 8 foot runs on the curved sections out of 1 sheet.

I have my 1950's vintage table saw out in the yard.  We use that to cut 
all the cross members to length.  We use my Skill saw to rip the plywood 
when needed.  We use my chain saw to cut off the plastic posts.  That's 
a bit of over kill but it's fun.  You can do a very nice job with just a 
regular hand cross cut saw.

We use a water level, always measuring from the same point, to set the 
plywood height.  The cross members are attached to the plastic posts 
after we are certain the the finish height is within 1/16 inch of the 
master height.  The plastic posts are usually cut 1 inch short of the 
top to allow for up and down adjustment.

Enough for tonight.

Cheers
Clark

Re: Steel supports for my iron horse

[Jeffrey Williams]

Clark,

A few more questions:

Did you make some sort of countersink/counterbore for the #10 screws 
holding the 3/4" ply to the metal so that the heads wouldn't interfere 
with the roofing paper application?

I appears that you trimmed the roofing paper flush with the edges of the 
plywood deck.  Did you use anything but the stain to protect the edges 
of the plywood?

How deep did you bury the plastic pipe uprights?

Have you noticed if the plastic uprights are less stiff in bending than 
the wood ones?

Thanks

Jeff Williams



Clark Lord wrote:
Jeffrey Williams wrote:

Great photos, Clark - very instructive!


Glad you liked them.  I selected just a few of the hundreds I've taken. 
 I have documented every feature of my layout as it was constructed.

This layout is sturdy enough to support my 375 pounds.  I can and have 
walked on the top without fear of damaging anything.  As time goes by, 
I'm sure we will have to replace all the wooden posts.

The wooden posts on the East end which support the 60 foot (19 foot 
diameter) loop and the East dual main line trackage are from my original 
(phase 1) 20 foot diameter circle of track I installed in 1992.  They 
are still very sturdy so no need to change them out.

The ones in the middle of the layout that get sprinkled all the time 
when watering the grass are the ones rotting away. Duh!

I have used different sizes and kinds of fasteners.  I now use just two. 
 First is the one that attaches the 3/4 inch plywood layout top to the 
metal side rails.  It is #10 x 1.25 inches long self drilling with a 
large built in flat washer.  The top is phillips drive.  I get mine at 
Home Depot.  They are made specifically to attach plywood to metal studs.

When we used #6 and #8 galivanized deck screws we twisted off the heads 
of 1/3 of them during installation.  And when the plywood swelled with 
rain moisture the heads would pop off.  Sounds like a gun going off.

Now we get about 4 inches of rain a year in Las Vegas.  When we had 
three days straight of slow drizzle one Fall, all of the plywood swelled 
and the center sections attempted to raise up.  That's when the screws 
failed.

I use 3/4 inch CDX roof sheathing.  It calls for 1/8 inch clearance on 
all sides.  I butted the ends and the buckling was the result.  You have 
to leave room for expansion.  All new plywood has that 1/8 inch gap.

The second fastener is a 1/4 inch hex drive self drilling screw that 
attaches the metal to the posts.

I use Henry's roofing materials.  I use Beyher opaque stain to coat the 
plywood two coats top and bottom before attaching to the structure.  I 
selected gray but any color will do.  I get it in 5 gal pails at Home 
Depot.  We roll it on with a regular house painting roller.  That's why 
it takes a day or two to get ready for the next building session.  I'm 
painting plywood.

We use battery drills with phillips bits to drive the fasteners.  Some 
times we use my 35 year old Skill 3/8 variable speed drill to drive 
fasteners.

We put the plywood down in full size sheets.  We fasten it to the metal 
and cross braces.  Then we use my 3 hp router with a straight cut bit 
with a ball bearing to trim the plywood to size.  The bit is carbide and 
1 inch long.  The bearing rides on the metal and you just slide along 
and cut off the excess plywood.

When we are on the curves we still put on a full sheet, attach and use 
the router to trim off the excess.  The excess then is used for the next 
curve.  You can get two 8 foot runs on the curved sections out of 1 sheet.

I have my 1950's vintage table saw out in the yard.  We use that to cut 
all the cross members to length.  We use my Skill saw to rip the plywood 
when needed.  We use my chain saw to cut off the plastic posts.  That's 
a bit of over kill but it's fun.  You can do a very nice job with just a 
regular hand cross cut saw.

We use a water level, always measuring from the same point, to set the 
plywood height.  The cross members are attached to the plastic posts 
after we are certain the the finish height is within 1/16 inch of the 
master height.  The plastic posts are usually cut 1 inch short of the 
top to allow for up and down adjustment.

Enough for tonight.

Cheers
Clark

Steel supports for my iron horse

[Jeffrey Williams]

I've noticed commercial and residential construction projects in my area 
using "2x4" equivalent structural elements which are formed from 1/16" 
thick galvanized sheet metal bent into a channel shape.

I was thinking that these may be suitable to use as stringer supports 
for the plywood or other track base for a Ga1 elevated track.

Advantages would be - no warping due to aging, heat or moisture, no dry 
rot, no pulled out nails or screws.

Disadvanges would be rust in ocean side or rainy climates, differential 
thermal expansion between the steel and track base material and (I have 
heard) that these pieces cost a bit (but not a lot) more than wood 
2x4's.  Of course, one would have to purchase a suitable cut-off saw to 
cut them into appropriate lengths.

My question is, have any of you learned and experienced track builders 
out there in Internet-land tried building an elevated live steam track 
using this material?  If so, is this a good idea or a bad idea?

Incidentally, I received my first shipment of rail and tie strips from 
Llagas Creek today, so I've got to make some construction material 
decisions quite soon!

Re: Steel supports for my iron horse

[Jeffrey Williams]

Great photos, Clark - very instructive!

===

Clark Lord wrote:
Jeffrey Williams wrote:

I've noticed commercial and residential construction projects in my 
area using "2x4" equivalent structural elements which are formed from 
1/16" thick galvanized sheet metal bent into a channel shape.


As Harry Wade suggested, I have something to say on this form of layout 
construction.  I have now built a large layout which has been revised 
twice using this material as the horizontal support element.  However I 
use 2x6 not 2x4.  I am posting photos on my web site located at
http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/layout/
where you can see the last modification being installed.  The work was 
done from Sept 11, 2002 through October 18, 2002.  Several folks helped 
me and we usually only worked 3 full days each week.  I needed the 
inbetween days to get ready for the next full work day.

Look at phase3 to see what existed and phase4 to see where we wound up. 
 We basically removed all the plywood tops, replaced any rotten wooden 
posts with plastic posts set in concrete and after the new plywood was 
installed over a egg crate support system, we roofed it with roll 
roofing.  I fabricated two lifting people bridges and installed those as 
well.

Then we put down the track.  We laid right at 1000 feet of track in two 
days.  Two 305 foot long main lines, three 70 foot long sidings in the 
main yard, four 30 foot long sidings in the steamup areas and one 60 
foot circle of track on the East end.

I made sure that the roofing was attached with Henry's 902 roofing tar 
and that every piece was rolled on the tar while it was wet and hot.  No 
buckling so far.

This latest setup has gone through 2002-2003 Winter and now the 2003 
Summer.  It has withstood all the temperture changes without difficulty.

Incidentally, I received my first shipment of rail and tie strips from 
Llagas Creek today, so I've got to make some construction material 
decisions quite soon!


Realize that this method will only support Sunset Valley Trackworks 
brass track.  I'm not sure that Gary Broeder's track will work on this 
sort of layout construction.   :)  Love ya Gary.

Below are URLs showing my three day meet this past April.

http://www.p-c-l-s.com/steamups/030516-Lord/
http://www.p-c-l-s.com/steamups/030517-Lord1/
http://www.p-c-l-s.com/steamups/030517-Lord2/
http://www.p-c-l-s.com/steamups/030518-Lord/
I am glossing over a lot of fine points in this message but I will 
patiently answer questions about my methods.

Cheers
Clark

Grizzly and other import tools

[Jeffrey Williams]

Do any of you have experience with the Grizzly brand or other Asian 
import machine tools?

The ceiling height of my shop doesn't allow for a full Bridgeport or 
equivalent milling machine.  I've seen smaller mills built by Grizzly 
and others that will fit the space available but am concerned about the 
quality/accuracy and stiffness of these imports.

Any experience or opinions?

Great steamup!

[Jeffrey Williams]

Although this has been mentioned on other forums, I wanted to be sure 
that the Founding Fathers of Steam Events LLC know that last weekend's 
National Summer Steamup 2003 at Sacrameto, CA was a great and 
wonderfully produced event.

Five tracks, mamy locos running simultaneously, great venue, reasonable 
hotel rates, super door prizes, friendly vendors, unique seminars and 
nice conveniences (carts from parking lot to steamup room, plus others) 
were outstanding!

Thanks, guys!!!

Proofread before pushing "send"

[Jeffrey Williams]

Force required to push 1.15 inch diameter syringe against 80 psi boiler 
pressure is 83 pounds, not 77 per my previous babble

Re: Thirsty K-27 - syringe is a problem

[Jeffrey Williams]

The inside diameter of my 60 cc syringe is 1.150".  Area is just over 1 
square inch.  So, to push that syringe against a boiler pressure of 80 
psi (pop off pressure on my K-27) would require on the order of 77 
pounds of force on the syringe plunger, assuming no friction in the 
syringe.  Vance, you must own a high strength steel syringe and have 
biceps like Arnold!  Now if you had a 0.5 inch diameter syringe a foot 
long, you might be able to do this!



Vance Bass wrote:
Tom,

I believe Jack Verducci has a pressurized water stop on his railroad, 
so no, that's not new.

My previous suggestion -- a syringe with an appropriate tip to fit your 
Goodall valve -- still sounds like the best fit to your requirements.  
They hold 50-60ml and will deliver water as fast as your valve will 
admit it to the boiler.  It shouldn't take more than a minute or so to 
empty four of them and it will be a whole lot easier on your hands than 
the pump bottle.  You already have at least one plastic syringe.  Give 
it a try and see if it works for you.

-vance-

"I'd never just want to do what everybody else did. I'd be contributing 
to the sameness of everything." Captain Beefheart
 

Re: Thirsty K-27

[Jeffrey Williams]

Look at the backhead of your K-27.  The bottom of the sight glass is at 
the centerline of the boiler, at least 3/8" above the top of the burner 
flues.  You can run your K-27 for at least 15 minutes after the water 
level goes below the bottom of the sight glass.

==

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess I need to explane more.

Even with an hour to work (OK play), I find myself at the bottom of the site glass and still have not finished the work I wanted to do such as switching. It is a real pain to blow down the boiler, let things cool off, fill the boiler, get both burners burning, build steam, and then finish the job (takes 30 minutes to turn the engine around).  

I want to keep things very simple and want to stay away from tender type pumps.  With a boiler this size, no real need to keep a constant boiler level.

The pump bottle with a Goodall valve is exactly what I need and works fine except it takes a very long time to pump 500cc with the squirt bottle I have and my finger gets worn out. I just want to find an electric version of the hand pump.  

Every hour, I just need to be able to inject 500cc at pressure and keep on going (OK, I still have to shut down to refuel and add oil).  If I refill the boiler every 1/2 hour, I probably will have minimum heating time to rebuild pressure.  I came up with 250cc/minute as a couple of minutes to fill the boiler sounded reasonable.

I just have yet to think of an application or sorce of a suitably sized commercially available electric pump.  I could build one but I am sure there is probably a cheep one available that does what I want.

My alternative plan is to use a presurized water bottle connected to an air compressor in the garage.

Don't tell me this is something new?

Regards,

Tom Burns

 

Inexpensive IR thermometer

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony Dixon put me on to an inexpensive IR thermometer sold by Radio 
Shack.  It lists for $50 but I got it on sale for $30.  Range is limited 
to a little over 400 F but it is actually useful for a number of 
live-steam things:

1.  looking for hot spots in boiler wrapper indicating heat leaks/bad 
insulation

2.  measuring temperature of butane tank to get an idea of internal 
pressure - interesting to watch during filling and use

3.  Tony used his to diagnose a paint problem he had near the smokebox 
of his latest coal burner.

4.  helping one decide whether a plastic detail part will survive if 
mounted on your live steamer or how well RC batteries and wire will do 
if mounted tucked away in the cab or other confined area

5.  helping one decide if one needs to take special care with paint choice

It turns out to be an interesting tool to have around the house anyway - 
oven temperature, intake/outlet of air conditioning, freezer temperature.

Stick it in the cat's ear and find out how hot ol' Fang is today!

Re: Copperhead & Prickly Pear RR

[Jeffrey Williams]

Great photos, Brian - what kind of camera are you using?  The C-16 
closeups with the out-of-focus backgrounds are great!

Vis-a-vis dogs vs. live steam, my mutt Honey managed to knock my Ruby 
for a loop when she decided that it was OK for her to straddle my 
deck-level track.  Ruby's stack exhaust on Honey's belly really made her 
jump, to Ruby's detriment.  Ruby got a bent smokebox door hinge out of 
the encounter.  Honey doesn't mess with my K-27, though!



Brian Scott wrote:
Hi All

Here's the Sunday afternoon pics I promised.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~scott3013
Hope you enjoy 'em.
The web site is pretty bare bones.
And so is the railroad.
ttfn 
Brian Scott 

Minimum Firebox size

[Jeffrey Williams]

Last week Steve Boylan stirred the pot with a question about appropriate 
boiler tube and flue sizes for Ga1 steamers.  So here's another boiler 
dimension question:

What are your experiences with minimum practical sizes of fireboxes for 
coal fired Ga1 steamers?  More specifically, how narrow can they get and 
still work well?

A Ga1 inside framed Consolidation (and presumably Steve's postulated 
4-4-0), has its firebox between the last set of drivers.  My guess, 
looking at my C-16 is that there would probably only be room for a 3/4 
to 7/8 inch wide grate between the water legs.  Could this work 
satisfactorily?

A related question is how narrow a water leg can be and still keep water 
on the sides of the firebox?

Strange Mogul

[Jeffrey Williams]

Accucraft is showing a very strange looking live steam 2-6-0 on its 
website under "news".  It looks like they took a C-16 and removed the 
3rd axle and drivers.

Ceramic burner material

[Jeffrey Williams]

Last week's thread on the ceramic burner article in the G1MRA Journal 
didn't seem to converge on a supplier on the left side of the Pond for 
the ceramic element.

Did anyone find a US supplier, or alternately, could we get one of our 
British cousins to send a few for experimentation?

Accucraft website updated

[Jeffrey Williams]

Accucraft recently updated its website, finally showing the live steam
K-27 and C-21 as well as photos of the SP Daylight cars 

Re: Differently Sized Drivers For C-21, etc.

[Jeffrey Williams]

I think what you are seeing is the results of a well-meaning person
grossly simplifying a drawing to put it online.  If you look at the
official D&RGW "folios" of the C-21 and C-25, reproduced in John
Norwood's "Rio Grande Narrow Gauge", you'll notice that there are
dimensional arrows attached to the 32" dimension and the "39" dimension,
not shown on the website you quoted.

Those dimensional arrows appear to go to the inside diameter (32") and
outside diameter (39") of the steel tires that are pressed onto the cast
iron spoked wheel bodies.

The Colorado State RR Museum can probably provide better dimensioned
drawings of these locos.

===

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Hi - I've been looking at information about C-21 and C-25 type locomotives.
> One of the links that googled up (http://ghostdepot.com/rg/rolling%
> 20stock/locomotive/drgw1939roster.htm) has drawings of the locomotives.  The
> drawings for the consolidations all show two different driver diameters (e.g.,
> axles 1 & 2 for a C-12 are 32", while axles 3 & 4 have 39" diameter drivers).
> Why is this so?
> > I use CA all the time for machining small parts, I use the same stuff as the
> > airplane guys.  Works better than the drugstore Crazy Glue.   CA has very
> > little sheer strength so a light wack with a hammer will break it loose and
> > soaking it overnight in acetone will remove all the glue.  If the surface
> > area is too large or the part too fragile for the wack method, then soaking
> > it overnight will break it free also.
> >
> > Great stuff.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > The old timers used to solder the part to the stub arbor and then
> > > use the tinned face on the part to solder it to the original port side
> > > of the cylinder.  I never did that. In more modern times  others
> > > have used Cyanoacylate glue (crazy glue) to mount the parts. It
> > > breaks down at about 350 Degree F to remove the part or there are
> > > solvents for it.
> > >
> > > 

Thanks to Jim McDavid

[Jeffrey Williams]

Jim McDavid hosted a great steamup last Saturday for the SF Bay Area
live steam crowd.  

Lots a good runs in by all in attendance and a great effort by Richard
Finlayson to get his Aster Japanese-pattern Pacific running - finally
removed both pilot and trailing trucks and ran it as an 0-6-0!  A
strange sight pulling three Pennsy heavyweight coaches!

Another inspiring effort was a near-complete disassembly of a (Graham?)
single cylinder stationary engine by Mike Martin on a picnic table,
dropping 0-80 screws and tiny bushings all about and still making that
puppy run!

Good food and company and even the rain held off!

Thanks Jim, for your hospitality and Irene for your good humor at all
the foolishness going on in your backyard!

Jeff Williams 

Different strokes - Aster survey, fuel choices, etc. etc.

[Jeffrey Williams]

Observing the great coal vs. alcohol vs. butane debate, then the great
Aster/Accucraft/do-it-ourselves survey debate, it seems to me that folks
are assuming that everyone enjoys the same thing about our hobby.

My scan is that some people like tight control their locos (radio
control), some people like to hover over their locos and get really
messy (coal), some people like to fuss over their locos and set fire to
the environment and run for hours on end (alcohol) and some people like
to light off their babies and watch them be little dragons (butaners)
and (dare I say it on a live steam message board), some people like
bulletproof, no hassle, no burned fingers, no flaming scenery
entertainment (sparkies)

There's no right answer here, kids!

Pearse is addressing the RC set

Custom/very low production builders are servicing the coal shovelers for
a significant financial premium

Aster has a stable market with the well-heeled alcoholics (note the
quick sell out of $20,000 Alleghenies and the $12K+ market for used
Daylights and Bigboys)

Roundhouse and Accucraft are selling to the
stand-back-and-light-the-burner bunch with modest checking accounts

and

A zillion dollar/pound/euro/yen customer demand for sparkies is
addressed by lots and lots of high volume manufacturers who can turn out
incredibly detailed and very reliable electric locos for $500.

So if Accucraft had offered a brand new, 12-month-guaranteed coal-fired
K-27 for a $500 premium, you bet I would have spent the kids'
inheritance to get one instead of the butane-fired beauty I bought.  On
the other hand, buying a very-used out-of-production DJB coal fired K-27
from someone I didn't know who lived 3000 miles away for $5000 (just
guessing here) would give me pause.

Bottom line is that manufacturers get started because they think that
they are addressing a unique niche market.  They modify their product
line to address changes/opportunities in the market (Aster starting
building sparkies, Accucraft started building live steam, Roundhouse
offering RC).

You can send in all the surveys you like, folks,  It's how you vote with
your dollars/pounds/euros/yen that will determine future offerings. 
Aster still has Colorado and Southern butane-fired Moguls for sale 12
years after their introduction. Accucraft still has electric 1:24
"GLENBROOK" Moguls for sale in spite of a production run of only 20. 
Aster and Accucraft will not ignore these lessons. 

Re: Accucraft and Aster surveys

[Jeffrey Williams]

Jeff R:

I don't know the answer to that.  They send the buyer his serial number
shortly after one puts down the 10% deposit.  Doesn't make sense that
they would plan in advance to build 100 each of all five versions, since
they don't know in advance which versions will be most popular. 
Supposedly, they are built to order, implying 100 total build.

jeff W.

=

Jeff Runge wrote:
> 
>  Jeff W., 100 units, that is a small run, do you think that includes all the
> different versions?
> Jeff in NC
> 

Re: surveying owners

[Jeffrey Williams]

Pete:  

I've purchased 3 locomotives and 6 pieces of rolling stock from
Accucraft.  Each one came with a product registration card that included
a customer survey.  It's curious that this was not included with your
purchase.  Did you purchase a pre-opened or display unit through a hobby
shop?  If so, perhaps the card was lost by the hobby shop.

Jeff Williams

==

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 3/16/2003 3:04:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> writes:
> 
> > it also makes sense that the people responding to an Aster
> > survey (i.e., current Aster owners, I suspect) would prefer what Aster
> > has already made.  It would be really interesting to see the same
> > survey conducted by Roundhouse or Accucraft.
> 
> It's interesting to hear that Aster knows who the "current owners" are.  Neither 
> Roundhouse nor Accucraft asked me to send in a 'product registration' card.
> 
>Pete 

Re: Accucraft and Aster surveys

[Jeffrey Williams]

The serial number plate on my K-27 says that it's 44/100.  That's a
small production run, even by Aster standards



Jeff Runge wrote:
> 
> One more observation, Aster productions sell out in a relative shot
> time,with one exception, the C&S mogul, This was narrow gauge & gas fired.
> Pruduced in 1991 with a total production of 480 units, and they are still
> avalible new from aster dealers. Thats a very slow mover! It was 11 years
> before offering another gas fired engine, and it is the JNR B20  an 0-4-0
> offered in 2002 ith a total production of 200 units. Aster has produced
> almost 60 different engines, many were offered in 2,3 different versions.
> i.e.: USRA Mikado ,black or green, : Jumbo,in LNWR black,LMS red, LMS black.
> That is to say  Accucraft would count all K- 27 as One and all C-16 as One .
>  I have never heard any production numbers for Accucraft or Round House, is
> this information available? I would think Accucraft would have to have good
> production numbers to support their low prices.
> Thanks
> Jeff in NC
> 

Accucraft and Aster surveys

[Jeffrey Williams]

Whenever you buy an Accucraft product, they include a survey card which
asks three questions:

1.  What new products or accessories would you like to see?

2.  What do you like most about models from Accucraft Trains?

3.  What improvements do you recommend for future products?

As with the Aster survey, Accucraft is surveying people who have chosen
an Accucraft product already.  Of course one has to actually fill out
the card and spend the cost of a stamp to get their opinion known.

Neither survey is likely to answer the question:  What different
products/features would Accucraft (or Aster) need to offer to induce you
to buy one of their products? 

Accucraft live steam Daylight GS-4: It's for real!

[Jeffrey Williams]

Over the past year, there's been a lot of tantalizing hints about a live
steam SP Daylight GS-4 from Accucraft.  St. Aubin Station started taking
deposits on this loco nine months ago.  Being one of the world's
greatest optimists, I plunked down my deposit.  Now I've got some
confidence that I will eventually see that loco.  Here's today's
response from Cliff Luscher from Accucraft as an addendum to a question
about my K-27:



Dear Jeff,

I am glad that your problem is solved for the K-27 live steam loco.
Bing, the owner of the company, told me this morning that we will have
GS-4 live steam in approximately a year.  It is the next locomotive to
be engineered into a live steam locomotive after our C-21 comes out this
summer.  The Daylight Passenger Cars are due out soon.  Please let me
know if you have any questions.

 
Thank you for your inquiry.
 
 
Cliff
Accucraft Trains


==

OhBoyOhBoyOhBoy!!! 

Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings

[Jeffrey Williams]

Funny how the names of all of the RR lines and towns Tony refers in JoE
(Jolly old England) sound like they are lifted right out of "Lord of the
Rings"!!  Towns in Hobbitshire!  On the other hand, Tony does have
certain physical characteristics..

===

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Geoff,
> Sounds as if you are heading "back home" for a while?. Lucky you!.
> If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full
> size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway
> and return  excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay
> coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the
> 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the
> GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in
> Dartmouth and catch the train back as well.
> At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx
> 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines,
> and you may be able to ride the plate as I did.
> There is another GWR  steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh
> to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as
> the Dartmouth trip.
> However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have
> to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had
> over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also
> visit the rebuild shops while in actual action.
> So many tracks and not enough time.
> >  Have a great trip.
>  Regards,
>   Tony D.
> 
> >I have enlisted! I've enlisted to test ride my nephew's 2' gauge railway on
> >his farm in Cornwall. Also to play trains with his train mad  7 year old
> >son.  Steam a Basset Lowke (spelling?)  of yesteryear perhaps.
> >
> >  A much more important title than Brigadier--you will be able to call me
> >ENGINE DRIVER!!  Much better than being a pompous assed Brigadier. (No
> >comment on how I might drive--please!) The closest I ever got to a
> >Brigadier was when guarded the "brig" aboard the cruiser! No, I wasn't in
> >it --but I lie a lot!
> >
> >I'll kiss the bridge (over the Thames) in Henley for you-- after I've
> >crawled from the pub next to the church where I was christened which is
> >next to the bridge, which is next to the police station!
> >
> >  Hopefully, I'll see some old GWR coaches somewhere there!??
> >
> >Geoff.
> >
> >
> >At 04:31 PM 3/11/03 -0800, you wrote:
> > >>you dodged GWR, you see, I'll be there in a month!
> > >
> > >Geoff,
> > > Don't tell me you've enlisted again!  Haven't you done your share?!  I
> > >know, you thought you'd have just one more go at Brigadier!
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Harry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 

Re: Fwd: More Pictures from Dan's Steamup

[Jeffrey Williams]

The difference between the K-27 photos and the Duchess photos is scale:
the K-27 was moving at a prototypical 15 mph, whereas the Tony
Dixon-piloted Duchess was traveling at a scale (?) 400 mph!

===

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Geoff,
> Just pulling your chain!.
> 
> LMS Photo's:- With all the focus and speed questions flying around, I
> am surprised no-one has asked "why the Slide motion on the Duchess appears
> static, while the coupling rods are very blurred". I know one is working in
> the horizontal and the other in a circular pattern, and the slide motion
> could be at the end of its stroke. But it begs many theories from the
> "experts". Whereas on the K27, all appears static!. Either a very fast
> shutter speed or a very slow engine! OOPS!.
> (Or the rod bearings on the Duchess have a lot of play).
>  TTFN.
>  Tony D.
> 
> At 05:12 PM 3/10/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
> >Hello,  Tony et al,,
> >
> >Of course it was "tongue in cheek" and I wanted to see who would lecture
> >me.  naturally, you did! As Dave C wrote, if we had a
> >"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" in a short time they would be talking about
> >wicks!--and we are now discussing those wicks on this group,  which I find
> >very interesting (as I did the digital stuff actually!)
> >
> >Well, thanks for the lecture.  BOO!
> >
> >  Larry Buerer (who appears once in a while on this group) and myself were
> >the digi photographers for our GR Society until our Editour Rick Platz
> >acquired a digi camera. Now I always have excuses--how can you run a train
> >with a beer glass in one hand and the bloody camera in the other?? Tell me!
> >No wonder my eyebrows are scorched.
> >
> >On that, thanks for the lecture, the humour and-I forgot what the other
> >was!!--Actuallyt I got very jealous of those LMS photos-- even if they were
> >inspirational! All those photos were really great, LMS and all.
> >
> >Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi Geoff,
> > > Do I hear a little dry humor in your comments?.
> > > I agree with your concerns about this being a livesteam site, but
> > >respectfully suggest that livesteam interests and photograhy do go hand in
> > >hand. As without the great photographs supplied by our steaming associates
> > >which detail the many steamups, ideas and assembly links, relying on verbal
> > >descriptions leaves a lot to the imagination and maybe lead to many
> > >incorrect assumptions.
> > > After all a picture is maybe worth a thousand words if in focus, at
> > >the correct distance, correct exposure etc. and shows real atmosphere, (and
> > >facial wrinkles).
> > > Also, not everyone speaks the Queens English as descriptive and
> > >colourful as yourself (and I).!.
> > > i.e. Difficult to describe the outlines and differences between a
> > >Britannia, King George vs. Ruby, K27, and a Daylight without a photograph.
> > >But you could describe them as "the Best of British vs. the rest", and
> > >assume a vivid imagination on the part of the reader!.
> > > Keep smiling, you may be on candid camera, again.
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Tony D.
> > >
> > > PS. Take a look at Mike Martins latest photographs taken at Dan,s
> > >steamup on 3-1-03
> > >at www.panyo.com/steamup and you will see what I mean!.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 

Exhaust system dimensions

[Jeffrey Williams]

See 

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/ex_dwgs.html 

for a discussion of exhaust systems on full scale steam locomotives 

Re: Size of Accucraft K-27?

[Jeffrey Williams]

Mine (#461) is 5.75" wide over the cylinders as well as the width of the
pilot beam.  The shades on the cab are a bit wider at just a hair under
6".  The stack is the tallest piece at 7.875".  It's possible that other
road numbers vary from this, since the cylinders are different on the
other road numbers.

Accucraft claims 30" minimum radius.  I've run mine on 48" radius and it
works fine.  The two center driving axles have blind flange drivers. 
The tender drawbar has alternate holes for the connection to spread the
distance between loco and tender on tight radii.

See

http://www.accucraft.com/pg-87140.htm

for their web page on the K-27 live steam.  It's not linked to any of
their other pages

===


"Daniel R. Fuller" wrote:
> 
> I am building a track and due to space limitations, I have a
> clearance problem.   I need to know the size of the Accucraft K-27.
> I saw them at Diamondhead and they are huge.  Real railroads had to
> limit engines on certain tracks, and I may need to do the same.  I
> think that the C-16 will be ok.
> 
> What is the size of the "loading gauge"  for the K-27?  Just overall
> height above the rails and the total width is all I need.
> 
> What is the minimum radius for the K-27?
> 
> Dan Fuller
> Carrollton, Texas
> 

Re: Where to use copper or fiber washer?

[Jeffrey Williams]

Annealing copper is easy - heat to visible red/orange, plunge in water -
not like steel.

===

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Geoff,
>  Interesting subject, good question and answers. I always keep a good
> stock of both types of washers ready for dismantling or repairing my Aster
> engines. Also interesting that Mike does not use any washers at all?. (Must
> have some very flat mating surfaces?).
>  Banjo Bolts/Torque:- When I assembled my UI approx. 5 years ago, which
> was my first kit, I broke only one Banjo bolt out of the 25-30 or so needed
> in the kit when lightly torquing down. But when I assembled my King George
> two years later, I had approx 7-8 Banjo bolts snap off using the
> same/similar pressure. The replacement "new" bolts purchased through Jerry
> Hyde were all ok.
>  The only thing I could surmise was that the U1 was a "new un-opened
> kit", but still 7-9 years old, the replacement bolts were also probably
> "new" at 1-2 years old, whereas the King George kit was  a "new" 12 + years
> older kit. I am thinking these older brass bolts became more brittle over
> time?. Have you, or anyone, experienced a similar problem?.
>   Just curious, but a caution for anyone looking to build up an "older
> kit".
>  Annealing;- You anneal all copper washers in your kits first before
> assembly?. If so, how?. i.e. assume applying low heat with a small butane
> torch?.
>  Best Regards,
>  Tony D.
> 
> At 11:15 AM 2/16/03 -0800, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
> >   I would suggest the copper for high heat or when the mating surfaces are
> >very good. I have found  that more torque is required for sealing copper
> >gaskets. Fiber for  other connections such as in the event there is cause
> >to disconnect frequently-- for example,  if the safety valve is removed for
> >filling the boiler then a fiber gasket is good as it will seal without a
> >lot of torque being required.  Banjo bolts with thin walls can be damaged
> >by over torquing so a fiber gasket is in order. I have noted both copper
> >and fiber being provided by the Aster   for safety valves.
> >
> >Incidentally, if the copper gasket is hard, it may be difficult to seal so
> >annealing the gasket is in order.
> >
> >I write only from experience and my preference is fiber where possible!
> >
> >Geoff.
> >
> >
> >Where is it best to use a copper washer, and where is it best to use a fiber
> > >washer?
> > >
> > >Mike Eorgoff
> > >near Chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 

Re: Got my K-27!

[Jeffrey Williams]

OK - so when's your inaugural steamup, Dave?

==

Dave Cole wrote:
> 
> At 6:26 PM -0800 2/7/03, Jeffrey Williams wrote:
> >Te K-27 is 1 1/2" wider than the C-16 so I don't
> >think that small mods to the landscaping is going to cut it!
> 
> hey, bring it over here ... harlan barr's k-27 cleared everything with ease ...
> 
> \dmc
> 
> --
> ^^^
> Dave Cole
> Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>Pacifica, Calif. USA <http://45mm.com/> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003
> For more information, visit the web site at <http://www.summersteamup.com>
> 
> ^^^ 

K-27 second impressions

[Jeffrey Williams]

I had a very satisfactory second run with my new Accucraft K-27 this
evening.  After problems with the butane filler valve, jets and pop
valve Wednesday evening, I emailed Cliff Luscher at Accucraft.  He went
to the trouble to get my telephone number at work (he would have had to
make calls to the dealer to get that number) and offered a replacement
valve and pop off.  Since I live about 30 miles from Accucraft HQ I was
able to get over there yesterday afternoon and pick up the parts.  One
of the Accucraft folks stayed past their normal closing time to be sure
I got the parts.  Good service, I'd say.

So tonight I installed the new pop off and had a grand long run with the
monster, with very satisfying steam plume and stack talk.  Able to keep
50 psi in the boiler without trouble in spite of evening cold temps. 
The cylinder cocks do a good job of keeping the initial spew of oily
water off the loco. Also, the problems with over-lubrication experienced
on the C-16 seem to have been solved - no evidence of oily rails.

After this machine gets broken in, I imagine that it will laugh at a 20
car drag!

Now I'm dreaming of an operating whistle (lots of room for a Larry
Bangham resonator), operating head, cab and marker lights! 

Re: Got my K-27!

[Jeffrey Williams]

I'm afraid that if Tony has to remove any more fence or stucco to fit
the K-27, both his fence and house will fall down!  When I brought my
C-16 to Tony's track for the first time, he had to chisel 3/4" out of
his fence and the pilot beam of the C-16 left "road rash" in other
places on his track.  Te K-27 is 1 1/2" wider than the C-16 so I don't
think that small mods to the landscaping is going to cut it!

Jeff

==

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Gary,
> Good idea, but we are in the Bay Area, and Jeff's K-27 is only about
> 1/4 mile from my track. Perhaps he can "run it in and debugg" it locally,
> then we all hit the Oregon trail in the spring!.
> Regards,
>  Tony D.
> 
> At 08:45 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >If we can line up for K-27 tours, please drop by Terror Trestle any time! I
> >am home 24 hours a day seven days a week!
> >
> >Gary - Running the new Aster shay over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon
> >http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
> >http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Anthony Dixon
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> >Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:40 PM
> >Subject: Re: Got my K-27!
> >
> >
> >Hi Jeffrey,
> > So bring it over to my place and let us find out how much fence post
> >and stucco I need to remove this weekend!.
> > Enquiring minds want to know. Could even arrange some hot chili and
> >wine to keep you warm, if the excitement is not enough.
> > Best Regards,
> >  Tony D.
> >
> >
> > At 09:52 PM 2/5/03 -0800, Jeffrey Williams wrote:
> > >I took delivery of my Accucraft K-27 this afternoon.  First impression
> > >is how BIG it is!!  I had some start-up prblems, though.  The butane
> > >filler valve was blocked - same size as my C-16 so the C-16 got
> > >caniballized.  One burner jet (the K-27 has two) was also blocked, had
> > >to clean that out as well.  So by the time I got steam up it was dark
> > >and getting cold.  Lots of nice steam plume action and great stack talk
> > >- much louder than my C-16.  Finally shut it down after 45 minutes or so
> > >- still plenty of water left.  Just too cold to stay outside any longer.
> > >  A few minor things to work on:  the relief valve goes at 50 psi, should
> > >be more like 70 psi.  Also going to take a while to get comfortable
> > >carrying it around - no good way to pick it up, other than getting your
> > >fingers under the drivers.  All the fine details along with the 24 lb
> > >weight makes it tricky to get hold of this monster.
> >
> >
> 

Got my K-27!

[Jeffrey Williams]

I took delivery of my Accucraft K-27 this afternoon.  First impression
is how BIG it is!!  I had some start-up prblems, though.  The butane
filler valve was blocked - same size as my C-16 so the C-16 got
caniballized.  One burner jet (the K-27 has two) was also blocked, had
to clean that out as well.  So by the time I got steam up it was dark
and getting cold.  Lots of nice steam plume action and great stack talk
- much louder than my C-16.  Finally shut it down after 45 minutes or so
- still plenty of water left.  Just too cold to stay outside any longer.
 A few minor things to work on:  the relief valve goes at 50 psi, should
be more like 70 psi.  Also going to take a while to get comfortable
carrying it around - no good way to pick it up, other than getting your
fingers under the drivers.  All the fine details along with the 24 lb
weight makes it tricky to get hold of this monster. 

Re: PRELIM: IE&W RY Steamups 2003

[Jeffrey Williams]

I can verify that Tony has gone at his fence with saw, hammer and chisel
to allow my C-16 to make it around his track.

He will in fact have to purchase his neighbor's home and tear down their
common fence or else complete his inner loop when my K-27 shows up!

===

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve,
> Tell me about it!. But we have to acknowledge these challenges.
> Every time I have steam up I always prepare by  keeping my workshop track
> building tools handy. Most steam ups I have, show that I will have to cut
> another clearance notch in my property dividing fence post, trim the
> bushes, line side clearances etc. Because someone shows up with the latest
> largest 45mm "scale" engine or stock they can find. Although I do not
> really mind Providing these same guys are still around to replace the fence
> when it collapses!.
>  I am coming to the conclusion that even if the track and clearances
> were built to accommodate a 3/4" scale engine on 3 1/2" track. Some G1 guy
> somewhere would take this as a challenge to "beat the system", and show up
> with a 8" wide x 12" high engine running on 45mm.
>  Some of the locals already know how to avoid the garden Tap (Faucet)
> projecting from the side of my house by taking the inner loop line!.
>  However, I would be very disappointed if everyone showed up with mini
> Rubies also.
>  Tony D.
> 
> At 08:30 AM 12/13/02 -0500, steve boylan wrote:
> >Jim,
> >
> >You wrote:
> >
> > > There are no reasonable clearance restrictions, so anything that fits on
> > > 45mm track is ok regardless of scale.  The track is a combination of Llagas
> > > Creek code 215 and Sunset Valley code 250.
> >
> >You realize, of course, that a paragraph like that would be taken as a
> >challenge to SOME on this list to come up with something really outrageous
> >that still runs on 45mm track.
> >
> >Let's see ... can I rig bogies under my van ... ?
> >
> > - - Steve
> >
> 

Re: Video to Digital format

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony,

I have three Mac's in my household and my son Matthew is adept at all
things digital when it comes to Macs.  Maybe he can help.

Jeff

==

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi Gary,
> I do not know anyone in my arena or any buddies who own a Mac. I use a
> generic Dell PC.myself. I can plug my Digital camcorder into it to play
> back video,s. But not familiar with the process/equipment for downloading
> these to the web. I need to look into this for times like these!. But don't
> hold your breath. If I can get the process and equipment to set up you will
> the first to know.
> Regards,
> Tony D.
> At 06:06 PM 12/6/02 -0800, Gary wrote:
> >Tony D.
> >If you have a friend with a Macintosh computer he will have the ability to
> >make the movie into a digital feed for sending via e-mail or posting to the
> >web.  Macs are sold with this sort of capability. I have a PC and it
> >requires extra software and hardware to do the same thing.
> >
> >Gary - Eugene, Oregon
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Anthony Dixon
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> >Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:17 AM
> >Subject: Re: Lion Cab
> >
> >
> >Hi Gary,
> > I saw this engine once, when Barry ran it at the Sacremento steamup
> >last year, July 2001. I took a brief 30sec video, before the tape ran out.
> >Sorry to say, I am not familiar with knowing how to download this to the
> >web!.
> > I believe Mike Martin took many digital still photo's  as he normally
> >does at these events in the Bay Area. So maybe Mike has some in his
> >archives?.
> >There was also an event report published in "Steam in the Garden", approx 2
> >months after the 2001 event, which I thought carried a photo also.
> >  I do not know if Barry ran at Diamondhead with this engine in 2001 or
> >2002. If so, someone may have photo's from here also.
> >  Assumptions would be to try and contact Barry direct. I have none of
> >his personal details.
> >  Alternatively, maybe Mike Martin will step forward and  advise if he
> >has any of Barry's R/C cab details. (Or other readers, have more visible
> >info).
> >  Regards,
> >   Tony D.
> >
> >
> 

Re: Butane sources

[Jeffrey Williams]

4 cans for $3.99 at Ranch stores in the SF Bay area.  Ranch stores (in
spite of the name) are large supermarkets that cater to Asian Americans.
You might try Asian grocery stores in your area.

===

Gary wrote:
> 
> I found the lowest cost places for butane to include REI Outdoor Supply or
> other camping & backpacking stores and commercial grocer suppliers.
> Commercial grocer suppliers like Cash & Carry aka United Grocers stock 7.8
> oz cans of BU-6 for Cassette FEU stoves like Iwatani appliances for catered
> on-site cooking.
> 
> http://www.iwatani.com/fuel.html  butane 8 oz $3.19
> 
> http://www.topothetable.com/reps.html   List of stove venders who might also
> carry butane
> Gary - chilling in Eugene, Oregon
> http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy
> http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
> 
> 

Re: clearance

[Jeffrey Williams]

The Accucraft K-27 is 6 inches wide.  There may be some 7/8 inch to the
foot locos that are wider.

===

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> In anticipation of future traffic gains on the SWAMP RR, Mr. Lunkenheimer,
> CFO, wishes to expand trackage and install a passing siding and a switching
> yard. Is there a standard for the width of 1:20.3 locomotives? The switching
> yard will probably only have a 1" clearance (actual, not scale) between car
> sides.
> Are there any standards for car widths in 20.3?
> Keep your steam up!
> Walt, Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate
> 
> PS If anyone out there will admit to having a Bachmann Sparkie Mogul, what is
> the overall width of the loco? 

Regner website

[Jeffrey Williams]

Regner has updated its English language website.  Check out:

http://www.mbv-schug.de/US-Online-Shop/ 

Re: gt&e has first run

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony, 

That "paint line in the garden" crack hit w too close to home!  
Just because I slowly walk around my yard following an orange
line spray painted on the ground, a glass of wine in hand going
"choo-choo-choo" doesn't mean that I won't eventually build the world
most complex and expensive backyard track   Besides, my C-16 has
been surgically altered to eliminate the oil spreading feature so
thoughtfully included by its designer! 

Jeff 

===

Anthony Dixon wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> Is this a polite way of saying you have no facilities yet for mopping
> up your track after C16s!. And no ash pit either!. We are patient people.
> We can wait for at least two weeks.
> Congratulations again, and pleased that you got way beyond the paint
> line in the garden stage. (Now that is being really facetiuos!).
> Tony D.
> 
> At 09:05 AM 11/20/02 -0800, Dave Cole wrote:
> >At 7:35 PM -0800 11/19/02, Jeffrey Williams wrote:
> >>So should we all show up at 10:00 am this Saturday for your first steamup?
> >>
> >>===
> >
> >thanks to one and all who sent not only publicly encouraging words, but
> >those who contacted me privately as well.
> >
> >jeff's note, while i'm sure was intended to be facetious, isn't too far
> >off the mark. i am awaiting some of those bridge clamps from hillman and
> >then will get the bridges working ... i don't really want guests until i
> >can guarantee egress and right now getting out of the circle when the
> >rails are all down can be exciting.
> >
> >i have a steamup-bay/storage yard that is now not connected to the main
> >loop -- i'm going to have to build a turnout that is at an interesting
> >angle to get the bay on-line to the mainline.
> >
> >plus, there have to be a lot more test runs -- i wouldn't want anything to
> >happen to jeff's c-16, for example.
> >
> >rest assured that there will be an announcement on the pcls list soon
> >about a steamup.
> >
> >\dmc
> >
> >--
> >^^^
> >Dave Cole
> >Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
> >   Pacifica, Calif. USA <http://45mm.com/> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
> >   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >^^^
> 

Re: gt&e has first run

[Jeffrey Williams]

So should we all show up at 10:00 am this Saturday for your first steamup?

===

Dave Cole wrote:

> all hands:
>
> tonight, under a moonlit sky (with supplemental jury-rigged
> lighting), the track crew of the grand teton & everglades steam
> excursion co. laid down the last few feet of rail.
>
> to celebrate, the operations crew fired up the frank s. and ran it
> all the way around the line, a first. this is also the first time
> since the slide of 2000 that the frank s. has run on its own rails.
>
> photos and further commentary will be forthcoming, but i just wanted
> everyone to know: we're back in business!
>
> \dmc
>
> --
> ^^^
> Dave Cole
> Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>Pacifica, Calif. USA  
> List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>
>
> ^^^
 

Re: Fabricating cylinders: Screwball or practical?

[Jeffrey Williams]

You may have trouble keeping the bores of telescoping tubing nice and round
after brazing.  I had trouble with that even after soft soldering.

-

steve boylan wrote:

> I think I'm ready to discuss this idea in public.  Is this a practical
> idea for fabricating small cylinders, or is this completely harebrained?
>
> I was trying to figure out how I could fabricate a cylinder for a 0.500"
> bore and a stroke of 0.750".  While looking at various cross-sections, I
> found myself thinking "Hmmm, you know, those look a lot like what you'd
> get if you used three layers of telescoping tubing.  Hmmm ..."
>
> So I did a bit of cipherin', and came up with this idea:  Take a length of
> Schedule 80 pipe, which has an ID of 0.423" and an OD of 0.675".  Bore the
> inside to a nice, smooth 0.500", then turn down the outside to to about
> 0.623".  Cut it to the length you need and notch the ends a wee bit to
> form the steam ports.  This forms the inner surface of the cylinder.
>
> Take a piece of heavy-wall 11/16" telescoping brass tubing, with an ID a
> touch over 0.625" and an OD of 0.688".  Carefully mill a long, wide slot
> to serve as the steam passage at each end, and braze that to the
> aforementioned pipe.
>
> Finally, take a piece of heavy-wall 5/8" telescoping brass tubing, mill
> slots to allow steam to pass from the valve into the steam passages, and
> braze that to form the outside surface of the cylinder.
>
> For those of you who, like me, find it easier to see a picture instead of
> trying to visualize this from words, I added a drawing of this idea to my
> Web page at:
>
> http://www.440american.org/Ideas/Cylinders.html
>
> (The small image on that page is a bit coarse;  click on that image for a
> larger view.)
>
> I did a quick check on the area that this provides for the steam ports and
> passages, and it's comparable to both scaled prototype areas and the areas
> in the G1MRA "Project" and "Dee" model examples.
>
> If you're worried about corrosion in a steel cylinder, it should be
> possible to use a length of brass or bronze rod for the inner cylinder
> instead of steel pipe.  You'd just have more work to do to bore the
> cylinder, but it shouldn't be much different from boring a cylinder in a
> block.
>
> The overall idea can be scaled to other sizes as well.  The dimensions
> given above work for the cylinders I'm developing.  You can either work
> with readily available stock, as I've described above, or you can try
> things like using strips of flat stock to create the steam passages.  (How
> ambitious are you?)
>
> So what do you all think:  is this a practical idea, or am I running with
> no air in the brake line?
>
> - - Steve
>
>
 

Speed governor

[Jeffrey Williams]

Has anyone seen any attempt to make a governor for a live steamer so
that a loco will move at constant speed, regardless of grade or curve
drag?

It seems to me that radio control is an unecessary complication for live
steam locos when what is really desired is something that will open and
close the throttle in response to changing load or drag, unless of
course, you are really into switching and more prototypical operation of
trains.

I imagine that getting a flyball type governor to work in Ga1 size might
be difficult, but that a simple elctronic circuit with a sensor, say
looking at the spokes of the drive wheels, with an amplifier to drive a
servo attached to the throttle could be small, inexpensive and easily
adapted.

Any of you electronics buffs out there up for a little design project?

A big advantage of this sort of add-on would be to relieve track
builders of the need to build billiard-table flat track.   Also, think
of the fun when your loco opens the throttle and starts to bark a bit
when it hits a hill!  Think of the relief when the throttle closes on
the downhill side as well!
 

Is the list on line?

[Jeffrey Williams]

I haven't seen any messages from the list since Dave Cole's discussion
of digital disasters, network nincompoops and Internet incompetence.
Are we still operating or has everyone lost their (electronic) tongues?
 

Re: Boxpok driver model preview & other questions

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony Dixon's various UK-built coal fired locos seem to stay put on a wide variety
of track types and conditions at high speed (those on the West Coast know of
Tony's penchant for "scale" 200 mph operation).  They seem to have reasonable
flange sizes and tire widths.  Of course there was the unfortunate excursion into
the shrubbery at Jon Bloom's..!

Are these wheels made to G1MRA standard, Tony?
 

Re: Another Firebox Question

[Jeffrey Williams]

Convect = heat transfer between solid and fluid (gas or liquid).  A very
complex process that is dependent upon viscosity, turbulence, gravity
vector, temperature difference between "hot" side and "cold" side,
condition of solid surface, geometry, etc etc.  Highly non-linear and
difficult to predict precisely.

Conduct = heat transfer through homogeneous, immobile media:  A
relatively simple (read "predictable") process governed by thermal
conductivity, cross sectional area, temperature difference between "hot"
side and "cold" side, length of conduction path.

Since sucessful model boilers are made from both copper (high
conductivity) and steel (low conductivity), one can surmise that
conduction isn't the big issue - it's convection and radiation (which is
dependent upon temperature difference between "hot" side and "cold"
side, geometry/"view factor", surface condition  - "emissivity") that
counts.



James Curry wrote:

> Steve:
> Decoder ring says: convect=conduct
> Jim
>
 

Re: Firebox Stays - What to use?

[Jeffrey Williams]

McMaster-Carr carries both monel wire up to 1/8" and rod to large diameters.
They also carry silicon bronze screws and threaded rod. 10-32 silicon bronze
threaded rod could be used quite nicely, I'd think.  The advantage of monel
and silicon bronze would be higher strength than copper after silver
soldering.  Copper will be dead soft after silver soldering.

I'd check with JC Harris or one of the other silver solder mfgs for
recommendations on flux for monel, silicon bronze and (yes!) stainless steel.

I recall that Little Engines used silicon bronze stays in its copper boiler
designs.

==

Michael Martin wrote:

> Monel is the material of choice according to K. N. Harris, author of Model
> Boilers and Boliermaking.
>
> --
> Michael Martin
>
> http://www.panyo.com/steamups
>
> (SF Bay Area Steamup Images and Model Engineering)
 

Re: Lathes for Live (or limey) Steamers

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony,

It weighs a couple hundred pounds and it's bolted to a large table so the best
solution is for you to come on over to try it out!

Jeff

=

Anthony Dixon wrote:

> Hi Jeffrey,
> Good idea on test run. I may take you up on the offer soon i.e. this
> weekend?.
> Do you plan on bringing it over or should I walk to your place!!!.
> Thank you,
> Tony D.
> At 06:40 PM 10/1/02 -0700, Jeffrey Williams wrote:
> >Tony,
> >
> >I've got a 1942 South Bend 9 x 24 (between centers) in my shop, fully equiped
> >except for taper attachment.  You're welcome to try it out to see if this fits
> >your needs (note to readers: Tony lives in the same town as I do!).
> >
> >If I was going to get a different lathe, however, I'd go for a used South Bend
> >10", which is much stiffer (important for accuracy, particularly with carbide
> >cutting tools) and has a cam-type chuck holder, rather than threaded as on the
> >9".  Also, the taper attachment is much better than that available for the 9"
> >and the drive for the apron uses a separate drive, rather than the lead screw.
> >The 9" (and perhaps other small lathes) uses the lead screw both for threading
> >and for longitudinal feed.  The problem is wear - the lead screw wears in the
> >2-3" in front of the chuck due to its regular use as a feed drive.  Bigger
> >(and
> >more expensive) lathes have a separate lead screw for threading independent of
> >the drive shaft (usally a spline) for feed.
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >
> >
>
 

Accucraft website

[Jeffrey Williams]

Accucraft updated its website today.  No big changes - updated its "New
Releases" page
 

Re: Lathes for Live (or limey) Steamers

[Jeffrey Williams]

Tony,

I've got a 1942 South Bend 9 x 24 (between centers) in my shop, fully equiped
except for taper attachment.  You're welcome to try it out to see if this fits
your needs (note to readers: Tony lives in the same town as I do!).

If I was going to get a different lathe, however, I'd go for a used South Bend
10", which is much stiffer (important for accuracy, particularly with carbide
cutting tools) and has a cam-type chuck holder, rather than threaded as on the
9".  Also, the taper attachment is much better than that available for the 9"
and the drive for the apron uses a separate drive, rather than the lead screw.
The 9" (and perhaps other small lathes) uses the lead screw both for threading
and for longitudinal feed.  The problem is wear - the lead screw wears in the
2-3" in front of the chuck due to its regular use as a feed drive.  Bigger (and
more expensive) lathes have a separate lead screw for threading independent of
the drive shaft (usally a spline) for feed.

Jeff


 

Re: Accucraft's e-mail address

[Jeffrey Williams]

I've been able to contact them at:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Kevin O'Connor wrote:

> Does anybody know of an e-mail address for Accucraft?  If so would you
> please post it to the list as general information, or just pass it on to me
> off list.  I have looked in SitG but they have only their website listed in
> their current ad.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kevin
>
 

Re: Another issue or two with WD-40?

[Jeffrey Williams]

This happened 15 years ago - very limited security!

===

Royce Woodbury wrote:

> Jeffrey Williams wrote:
>
> >
> >  One young lady in pursuit of my roommate met him at the
> > airport wearing a trench coat, high heels, a dab of WD-40 behind each
> > ear and nothing else.
> >
> > Hu?
> >
>
> I presume she didn't have to go thru security ? (although she wouldn't set
> off the alarm)
>
 

Re: Source of Butane

[Jeffrey Williams]

I've had good luck finding the 8 oz (by weight) butane cans for $1 each at
Asian supermarkets (In the SF Bay Area, the "Ranch 99" stores carry
them).  Small Asian grocery stores don't seem to carry them as often.

==

CWolcott wrote:

> In addition to the mentioned Camping/Sporting/Tobacco shops, I've been
> told that many ethnic food stores (Particularly Korean) carry it.  A
> friend of mine found a good cheap supply at a restaurant supply house.
>  I usually get mine from Target's camping section.  They sell a brand
> called 'Great Outdoors' and it comes in a green label.  Its one
> disadvantage is it comes with a mount for cook tops that is integral to
> the can so can not be removed.  (Ever have a whole can of butane escape
> at once? . . )   It works fine for a Ruby, but other manufacturers that
> you can not remove the cab from may have trouble.
>
 

Hartford Passenger Car

[Jeffrey Williams]

Hardtford apparently has finally released its 1:20.3 narrow gauge
passenger car - see Hartford's website at:

http://www.hartfordpr.com/

The most expensive wooden car kit ever produced, I imagine - but it's a
beauty in the photo!


 

Re: Argyle conversion

[Jeffrey Williams]

That's probably the same Quincy #2 2-6-2 Alco currently operated by the Niles
Canyon Railway in the SF Bay Area.  Still steamin' after all these years

==

Kevin O'Connor wrote:

> Alan Olson of Denver converted a Roundhouse Lady Anne to an American outline
> locomotive called "Acoma" (or something like that).  I saw the loco at
> Diamondhead the first time that I went to Diamondhead in "95".  I was too
> inexperienced and visually overwhelmed to realize what I was looking at
> until my "esteamed" mentor, Mike O'Rourke pointed the loco out to me.  Since
> then I have become aware of another possible conversion.  It is the 2-6-2
> tank engine (#2) built by Alco for the Quincy Railroad Company in 1924.
> There is a picture of it on page 383 of "Guide to North American Steam
> Locomotives" compiled by George H. Drury, and published by Kalmbach Books
> ((800) 533-6644)) (ISBN 0-89024-206-2).
>
 

Re: Accucraft and build-to-order

[Jeffrey Williams]

I talked to Cliff Luscher of Accucraft at the Pleasanton steamup on Saturday.
He said that they aren't selling the K27 through their usual dealers but only
direct from Accucraft or from a few dealers who have live steam loco repair
capability.  His explanation was that they've got a lot of people bringing
locos to Accucraft HQ for repairs.  I'm not sure I follow the logic on this.
Maybe Accucraft is trying to reduce the markup from wholesale on this loco and
so is cutting out the discount dealers.

Cliff also said that they will eventually be building a live steam Daylight and
that they had a running chassis in China but that production was a year off.

==

Phil Paskos wrote:

> Or how about? Yes we are going to build the Live steam Daylight or No we
> aren't going to build it. Roy Ganderson just took delivery of the new shay.
> It comes with its own metal carrying case and ran very well right out of the
> box, BUT the boiler is too small to accomidate the fuel tank. Yes he ran the
> boiler dry before the fuel ran out. He's looking to add a goodal valve.
>
> Phil
>
> > Odd ... I went to the Accucraft site looking for pricing and reservation
> > information on the live steam K-27.  Nothing.
> >
> > On the other hand, they have all four models of the live steam C-16 listed
> as
> > "in stock" -- I thought I remembered seeing those listed as "build to
> order"
> > only a short while back?!
> >
> > -vance-
> >
> > There are two ways to make a person homeless --
> > destroy his home or make his home look like everyone else's.
> >
> >
>
 

Re: A foundry in every kitchen ...

[Jeffrey Williams]

Dave, I think you're trying to get everyone on list into great big trouble!!



Dave Cole wrote:

> The topic of casting metals has been discussed here every
> now-and-again ... below is an article that suggests that the ability
> to melt and cast bronze and cast iron could soon be within the reach
> of virtually everybody:
>
> http://home.c2i.net/metaphor/mvpage.html
>
> \dmc
>
> --
> ^^^
> Dave Cole
> Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>Pacifica, Calif. USA  
> List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>
>
> ATTEND THE 2002 NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN PLEASANTON, CALIF., JULY 12-14
> For more information, visit 
>
> ^^^
 

Accucraft website

[Jeffrey Williams]

Accucraft updated its website.  No mention of a live steam Daylight,
though!   Arrrgghh!
 

Re: SR&RL #24 problems

[Jeffrey Williams]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Jim
> It's no misprint.  My railway descends from 2.6 feet in 33 feet from my steamup bay, 
>down along the fence to the ground level.  My brother and I regularily begin and end 
>our live steam runs from that steamup bay.  With the Fowler, I descend the grade, 
>centering the valve gear as a steam brake.  With our Bantams, we hold the trains back 
>manually to avoid overspeed.  We use timers to time the runs and near the end of the 
>time we climb the 8% grade back to the steamup bay.
>
> Prototype Narrow Gauge railroads (e.g.,Uintah & Silverton Northern) climbed 7% 
>grades in regular operations.   The Uintah did it on 66 degree curves (roughly 4ft 
>radius in our scales).  So those kinds of grades were not that unusual.  My 8% 
>section is on straight track.
>
> Maybe you can come and see for yourself at our open house, as our club, Sacramento 
>Valley Garden Railway Society will be hosting the 19th National Garden Railway 
>Convention in June 2003 (7th to 13th of June).  We would be happy to have you.
>
> Earl Martin,  Roseville, CA
 

Re: Pop Valves

[Jeffrey Williams]

I think it was a Heisler I saw that seemed to "pop" realistically"



Mike Chaney wrote:

> Jeffrey Williams asked:-
>
> > The Catatonk locos have real pop valves, don't they?  Who makes those?
>
> Would that be the 14T Shay, the 24T Shay or the 14T Heisler?
>
> Mike
>
>
 

Re: Pop Valves

[Jeffrey Williams]

The Catatonk locos have real pop valves, don't they?  Who makes those?

=

Harry Wade wrote:

> At 07:48 AM 5/31/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >Roundhouse valves are pop valves, although they don't pop nearly to the
> >level that Aster pop valves do.
>
> Kevin,
>  Yes Aster has mastered the secret of the ball valve safety and there's
> really no secret to it but in order to have a true "pop" safety valve there
> must be more to it than just a ball on a seat.  The theoretical
> requirements are known and Aster has spent the money and made the effort to
> develop a set of chamber geometry that satisfies those requirements for the
> size safeties they make.  No doubt it took some experimentation but once
> the right combination is hit upon it you just crank 'em out.
>  Several years ago, after buying one of those hapless non-popping
> Roundhouse safeties, I attempted to make a good pop valve myself using SS
> balls as the valve based upon model Ross pop valve design information I had
> at the time.  A proper Ross valve of course uses a "disk" valve, which will
> give much better geometry, but I had no desire to attempt a disk in this
> size.  The results were marginal, and ultimately not successful.  One
> version would pop cleanly open but fizzle shut.  One would fizzle open but
> pop shut.  All of them allowed entirely too much of a drop in pressure
> before closing.  Of course what I wanted to achieve was a valve that would
> pop open, reduce pressure by no more than 4psi, and pop shut.  Frustration
> led me to at one point consider making wax plugs of the chambers of Aster
> safety valves and start knocking them off.  But, in the words of Tricky
> Dick, that would be wrong!
>  Without going into detail (even if I were capable of it), the
> geometric relationship of the ball, seat, and chamber must follow certain
> parameters and at that time I had not fully discovered what those were.   I
> still don't have a concrete set of parameters or a plug-in formula that
> relates everything to say ball diameter but here are the high points.  The
> ball must sit in a stepped chamber or recess and the depth and diameter of
> the recess relative to the ball diameter is critical.  The diameter of the
> steam hole, and the height at which the ball will rest realtive to the
> recess chamber rim, is also critical.  The steam hole also determines the
> force of pressure that the ball valve will "see" and must resist.  The area
> within the upper chamber creates what is called clearance volume and is
> also important as it has an effect on the popping action as does the area
> of the escape passage, the holes, in the top of the valve.  If any of these
> relationships deviate from a narrow requirment one or more aspects of the
> valve won't work, as was my experience.  Some might ask "but what about the
> spring?"  Yes the spring is important but several combinations of spring
> length, diameter, number of turns, and wire gauge will work but only one
> chamber geometry will work.
>   I did not continue my safety valve experiments but I have continued
> to collect design data for Ga1 (as well as a package of copying wax  :-o)
> and will give it another try before long.  One encourging note to me is
> that I have seen a number of home made safeties that operated and looked at
> least as good as the Aster valves if not better.  So it can be done.
>
> Regards,
> Harry
>
 

Re: Regner steam engine/currency topic

[Jeffrey Williams]

http://www.mbv-schug.de/english-version/index.htm

gives Regner prices in US dollars



"Phil. Paskos" wrote:

> This is slightly off topic, but I think would be of use to a lot of members
> on the list.
> http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html
>
> The above URL brings an up to date currency calculator on your screen. Put
> in the money values and get a very quick and accurate value of British
> pounds to U.S. dollars for example.
> Phil
>
> > >
> > > > > I have discovered a small mallet to be made by Regner. Total price
> is
> > > > > $2010.43 as near as I can figure converting Euro dollars to US
> > dollars.
> > > > > Regner 20850Kit 99633 Württembergische Tssd,  USD $1765.65
>
>
 

Lots of strange non-steam emails

[Jeffrey Williams]

I've been getting a lot (1-3 per day) of strange emails lately from
unrecognizable senders, a strange Subject line and usually no message.
I'm assuming that these are attempts to pass viruses/worms.  Have any
others of you on-list been getting these?

If so, could the sslivesteam address book have come into evil hands?
 

Re: bronze assay

[Jeffrey Williams]

Try

www.matweb.com

This is a database of 25,000 plus materials.  It gives alloy compositions and
uses for bronzes and many other materials

=

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Harry,
> What is the composition of SAE 660? On pages 2140 and 2141 of Machinery
> Handbook 24 are listed 28 Bearing and Bushing Alloys. There are no numbers in
> the 2xx, 3xx, 5xx or 6xx series for bushing bronze. Maybe I need to get a new
> handbook. 24th Edition was in 1992. I must admit that there are still more
> than a few pages out of the 2543 that I have not read!
> Keep your steam up!
> Walt
 

Re: adapter

[Jeffrey Williams]

The cheapest source for 100% butane is Asian grocery stores.  The supplier
is generally Korean.  In my area, I can get 7.8 oz cans (the size of a
spray paint can) for $1 each.  The nozzle on the can doesn't require any
adaptor to reach the Ruby fill spout.

=

$B5L@n!!=c(B wrote:

> I am looking for the adapter for filling Ruby's butane tank from butane
> cartridges.
> Please let me know it.
>
> Jun  Kitsukawa
> 4-10-15  KugenumaSakuragaoka
> Fujisawa, Kanagawa
> 251-0027 JAPAN
>
> mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> hp:http://www6.plala.or.jp/locomotive/
>
>
 

Re: Accucraft

[Jeffrey Williams]

They've got a lot of projects in work ahead of the Daylight - a lot can change
in a year and a half!   The Daylight will likely be a very low volume product
compared to the Shay and Ruby and thus have limited profit potential - that
probably effects the amount of energy they put into it.

=

Chuck Walters wrote:

> Interesting!  I point blank asked Accucraft (in an email) if there was even
> going to be a Daylight in live steam.  The representative wrote me back and
> said in very distinct, bold print.NO!  What gives, the employees don't
> know what's going on  That was a month ago!
>
> Chuck Walters
> Twin Lakes Railway CEO
> http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Williams
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:12 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> Subject: Accucraft
>
> I was at Accucraft HQ this afternoon to get some gaskets and asked Bing
> about the Shay release and the SP Daylight in live steam.  Bing said
> that the first 5 production Shays were in the next container - one to
> two weeks.  He said that they have a back order for over 500 units, so
> it will take a while for them to clear that demand.  He also said that
> the live steam SP Daylight delivery is a year and a half from now.
>
>
 

Accucraft

[Jeffrey Williams]

I was at Accucraft HQ this afternoon to get some gaskets and asked Bing
about the Shay release and the SP Daylight in live steam.  Bing said
that the first 5 production Shays were in the next container - one to
two weeks.  He said that they have a back order for over 500 units, so
it will take a while for them to clear that demand.  He also said that
the live steam SP Daylight delivery is a year and a half from now.
 

Another material properties reference

[Jeffrey Williams]

Here's another good material property reference Internet site - this one
plastics only:

http://www.boedeker.com/mguide.htm
 

Material properties

[Jeffrey Williams]

Here's an extensive, easy-to-use and FREE materials information database
with mechanical and electrical properties data on 26,243 materials
including metals, plastics, ceramics, and composites that you may find
useful

www.matweb.com
 

Re: Clearances between tracks

[Jeffrey Williams]

Clark:

Your measurement of the Accucraft K-27 is interesting - that scales to 10
foot  6 7/8 inches prototype dimensions at 20.3:1.  The only text I have on
D&RGW locos (Norwood) shows a width over the cylinders for the K-27 of 9
foot 5 3/4 inches, which indicates there is another foot or more of other
stuff hanging out there.  Norwood's book lists the K-37 at 10 foot  5
inches over the cylinders and the K-28 at 10 foot 5 1/2 inch over the
cylinders.  Does anyone have the maximum outside dimentions of the biggest
D&RGW locos?  Could they be as wide as 11 foot 6 inches?  I'm assuming that
at some point Accucraft or some other mfg will build a live steam version
of the biggest of the 20.3 :1 prototypes.

Not to be too limiting, who knows what was the widest 2 foot gauge loco
built?   At 13.7:1, that might be a real driver for  spacing dual tracks!

My soon-to-be-built track is planned to have 10 foot minimum radius curves
and 8 inch center to center track distance.  Maybe I should think wider on
the CL to CL distance?

===

Clark Lord wrote:

> Well I've been thinking about all this for some time now.  I measured
> Soni Honegger's engine at DH this year and found it to be 3.5 inches
> from the rail centerline to the outermost part of the cylinder chests.
> That makes it a 7 inch wide loco.
>
> Additionally I measured an Accucraft Electric K 27 and it was 6 1/4
> inches wide or just over 3 inches from the track centerline.  The
> Accucraft live steam C-16's are 3 inches wide from centerline.  Sure
> sounds like you will need more than 6 inch spacing on tangent track just
> to accommodate these locomotive.
>
> When I built my track 5 years ago I used 8 inch center to center for all
> track, tangent or curved.  I wanted to accommodate a Big Boy's
> articulation when on a curve.  I came to this spacing by putting two
> passenger coaches side by side and kept moving them apart until I could
> put my and around them and not be touching the other coach.  I wanted to
> be able to pickup rolling stock and not have my hand hitting the stuff
> on another track.
>
> And then the LVGRS uses 8 inch centers as a standard on our portable
> modular RR.  So 8 inches it was.
>
> Now that I'm a G1MRA member I find that they use 4 1/2 inches on tangent
> track and 6 inches on curves.  But they are talking 1/32 scale equipment
> and scale spacing.
>
> The moment you see a 7/8N2 box car you will see that even 8 inch spacing
> is not enough for side by side 7/8N2 equipment.
>
> So since I lucked in to 8 inch spacing I'm sticking to it.
>
> Just one fellows wisdom.
>
> Clark
>
> Eric Maschwitz wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jeff-
> >
> > Make sure there's room for that live steam K-27 I'm going to buy ;)
> >
> > -Eric Maschwitz
> > www.grabiron.com
> >
 

Clearances between tracks

[Jeffrey Williams]

I recall either a website or a message to this group that had some
suggestions as to minimum track-to-track centerline distances on
double-tracked straight sections and for curves of various radii and for
a selection of scales running on Ga1 track

Anyone recall that site or have that info handy?
 

Fusible plugs

[Jeffrey Williams]

Just so that we don't ignore "conventional wisdom", I present a verbatim
quote from the text book "Modern Locomotive Construction" by J.G.A
Meyer, published by John Wiley and Sons in the year 1892 (yup, 110 years
ago).  From page 435, Section 430, "Fusible Plugs"

"Fusible plugs are sometimes used as a safeguard against the collapse of
the furnace crown sheet from overheating through a shortness of water.
Sections of the different forms of these plugs are shown in Figs 663,
664 and 665. They consist of a brass shell containing an alloy of tin,
lead, and bismuth. The plug is screwed into the crown sheet at a
distance of 18 to 24 inches from the tube sheet. The water above the
crown sheet keeps the alloy at a comparatively low temperature, and
prevents it from being melted. When the water in the boiler is so low as
to uncover the plug, the alloy is supposed to fuse, allowing the steam
to escape, retard combustion, and in the meantime relieve the boiler of
its pressure. Whether this action of the plug can always be relied upon
is very questionable; we believe its efficiency is sometimes
over-rated.  A long exposure to the heat in the furnace may cause an
alteration in the nature of the alloy and render it valueless.  Again,
incrustation [sic] on the plug may become strong enough to withstand the
pressure of the steam and prevent its escape after the alloy is melted.
It is therefore good practice, when these plugs must be used, to renew
them at short intervals, say every two or three months."

"Two or three months", of course, means 60 to 90 days of continuous
steaming in the parlance of the age, not the few hours of steaming that
a typical model live steamer might see in two or three months.  Remember
that in 1892, typical boiler pressures were 150 psi, with a saturated
steam temperature of 358 degrees F.  Post-War locos had had boiler
pressures of 250 or more psi with a saturated steam temperature of at
least 400 degrees (which the crown sheet would see, even if the steam to
the cylinders received superheated steam).  Our Ga1 babies with 60 psi
boiler pressures see "only" 292 degrees F.  The point is that one has to
choose one's fusible alloy carefully.  For post-war locos, one might use
pure tin, which eliminated the problem of the low melting point alloy
constituents leaching out of the plug and had a melting point of 450
degrees F, perhaps not an inappropriate difference between the maximum
steam temperature and the melting point of the fusible plug.
 

New Accucraft Locos

[Jeffrey Williams]

The Accucraft website was just updated and shows the following live
steam locos "under development"

Superior 2-6-0 Live Steam (Classic Series, 1:20.3)

C-21 2-8-0 Live Steam (Silver Stream Series, 1:20.3)

Forney Live Steam (Classic Series, 1:20.3)

K-27 Live Steam (Silver Stream Series, 1:20.3)

Anyone have details on any of these?
 

SP Daylight minimum radius

[Jeffrey Williams]

For any of you contemplating securing a delivery position for the
upcoming Accucraft SP Daylight and cars, Accucraft informed me (Alex, by
e-mail) that the minimum operating radius of the GS-4 locomotive is 8
feet, but the minimum operating radius of the Daylight cars is 10 feet -
so make sure you've got lots of room!