Re: Australian Boiler codes

[steve boylan]

Gordon wrote an informative description of what's going on with boiler
codes in Australia, but closed with this bon mot:

> I hesitate to point out that this whole lawyer driven ambit claim madness
> originated in the USA!

You should hesitate, Gordon.  After all, this whole lawyer driven madness
well predates European settlement of the Americas.  Why, Shakespeare
himself complained about their depradations.  :-)

- - Steve (no, the OTHER Steve)
 

Wheel material

[steve boylan]

Okay, here's a technical question for folks to chew on.  This may be a
stupid question, but ... given the difficulty in finding a foundry
in the US willing and able to investment cast wheels in gray iron, why not
cast wheels in, say, mild steel instead?  A number of investment casting
foundries advertise a range of castable steels.

- - Steve

 

Re: Which wheel profile is which?

[steve boylan]

Thanks, folks.  I was sure I'd get a lot of useful observations back, and
I wasn't disappointed!

So now I can chuck those wheel blanks in the lathe and see how they turn
out ...

- - Steve


 

Which wheel profile is which?

[steve boylan]

For those of you who have made wheels ... which G1MRA profile did you use?
It sounds like the "IF" profile is preferred for Gauge 1 track?

- - Steve

 

Copper (was: Re: Some alternatives was BPE safety valve)

[steve boylan]

Harry,

I was happy to discover a source for a variety of copper tubing and sheet.
It started when I happened to see "Metals" listed on the Web site for an
industrial supplier who happened to be 2 blocks from my old office in
Cambridge, Massachusetts.  Turns out they had what I'd spent months
looking for - and more:  copper tubing with wall thicknesses of 0.032" and
0.065" in sizes from 1/8" to 2 1/2";  copper bar stock, flat stock,
and rounds;  sheet copper in sizes from 12" x 12 " to 36" x 96" and
thicknesses of 0.016", 0.021", 0.027", 0.032", 0.047", 0.064", 0.093",
0.125", and 0.188".  (Of course, a 3' by 8' by 3/16" sheet of copper is
going to cost you $1,230 plus shipping, but if you need it, you need it!)

The surprising moment was when I was looking for a local welding supplier
after we moved to Vermont.  I checked one Web site and clicked on a link
for "Our New Industrial Supply Catalog" ... and found exactly the same
items displayed in exactly the same format with exactly the same prices.
Looks like someone is providing an on-line storefront service.  You might
be able to find a nearby supplier with that line-up or a similar one, or,
in the worst case, I can point you to the companies I know.

- - Steve

 

Re: American water pump dilemma

[steve boylan]

Ken,

I kind of like the idea of putting the pump in a "false firebox", if
that's where it will fit.  Another idea I had was:  could the pump fit
ahead of the valve gear, driven from yet another eccentric on the main
axle?  If you're going for full Stephenson valve gear, there probably
isn't room ... (he pondered).

- - Steve



 

RE: American projects

[steve boylan]

Ken,

Curious how the mind works:  after looking at your valve gear drawing
again, my attention shifted to the cylinder saddle.  I suddenly had a
clear image in my mind for how I could machine the components for a brazed
saddle and cylinder assembly, complete with suitable steam and exhaust
passages.

Now to scale it out and draw the components ... in my (HAH!) free time ...

- - Steve

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, XXYZ wrote:

> I put a .jpeg of an early design of the Stephenson valve gear for the
> American on my webspace at
> http://xxyz.home.mindspring.com/american%20valve%20gear.jpg
>
> This pic is before the lifters were added and some of the parts or hidden
> for clarity.
>
> Ken
 

Re: Project/Dee castings?

[steve boylan]

Pete,

You also asked:

> I have also seen mention of two other locos of interest: Vest Pocket Shay
> and the American Project.  The American is not yet out? While the Vest
> Pocket is out and gone?  Can anyone shed some light?  (no I am not dim, or
> eer i?)

There are a couple of us working on a model of a 4-4-0 American for 45mm
gauge, with the vague idea of sharing plans.  My plans have been on hold
this summer while I pack up everything to move.  (We've been in the same
house for 17 years, accumulating all the while - sorting and packing has
been quite a job!)  But the new house has lots of shop space (yummy!), so
I can start testing my plans and ideas this fall.

My project outline, which hasn't been updated in quite a while, is at:

http://www.440american.org/

But any suggestions and ideas are welcome!

        - - Steve Boylan

 

Re: Silversoldering Stainless Steel

[steve boylan]

Robb wrote:

> I can explain volts / amps.
> Volts = how fast the river is flowing
> Amps = how wide it is

But ... but ... isn't volts the analogue of head, and amps the analogue of
flow rate?  (volume per unit time?)

I'm tempted to delve deeper (how fast <=> propogation speed, how wide <=>
diameter of conductor, area vs. ampacity), but I don't want to get in over
my head.

:-)

- - Steve

 

Re: Fwd: Fireboxe's

[steve boylan]

Tony,

Thank you!  That's just the kind of hard data I was looking for!

- - Steve


 

Re: Minimum Firebox size

[steve boylan]

Harry wrote:

> >Last week Steve Boylan stirred the pot
>
>  Yes, and eventually he'll get what's coming to him . . . . :-)

Oh, goody!  I can't wait!

- - Steve
 

Re: Flue tube sizes

[steve boylan]

Harry wrote:

> It looks like 5/16 ACR is the obvious choice.  Unfortunately you will
> probably be asked to buy a 20ft stick to get the 2ft-3ft you need.  I
> thought I had a stick which I would gladly share but it looks like I used
> it all.

Sounds about right, though I can't pack more than 3 of those in this
barrel.  (Grrr ...)

And fear not:  I have a good relationship with the local plumbing
supplier.  Sometimes I can get offcuts;  more often I can get a wee bit
off the price.  And there's a good chance I'd use up 20' eventually!

- - Steve

 

Re: Flue tube sizes

[steve boylan]

Susan wrote:

> See: http://www.copper.org/tubehdbk/figures/figure3.html
>
> For info on collapse pressures of copper tube. Use the annealed table.
>
> Don't forget to allow the 8x safety margin and an allowance for wear.

Keep in mind that those tables already have a safety factor built into
them.  Which means that running at 1/8th the pressure shown in those
tables is just that much better!

> So the 0.032" to 0.035" wall (approx 20-21 SWG) tube looks okay - over
> 550 psi which will give a max 70 psi working pressure.
>
> My understanding is that about 1/4" ID is the smallest workable tube for
> a locomotive (i.e. horizontal) boiler.

Thanks.  I'm still juggling ideas;  I may have to resort to some
prototyping.

- - Steve

 

Re: Flue tube sizes

[steve boylan]

Jim,

You wrote:

> The 1:19 ratio is for the Length: ID.
> Try 3 x 3/8"OD or 4 or 5 x 5/16 perhaps.
>
> The Schools replacement boiler using a JvR type "C" layout that was
> published, uses two 1/2" tubes in a slightly longer barrel and that steams
> 2 cylinders about thye same size as you will want.

Sounds workable.

I'm currently up to the Mark VII design, which is proving to be unwieldy;
I'm going back to the simpler versions.  Fewer and bigger flues appears
the best direction to head at the moment.

Which leads me to a related silly question:  In a situation where a
semicircle won't fit between the bottom of the boiler barrel and the top
of the firebox, wouldn't it make sense to make the top of the firebox
elliptical?

- - Steve

 

Re: Flue tube sizes

[steve boylan]

Jim Gregg replied:

> Steve - you don't say what size we are talking here -
> I'm assuming Gauge one, "G" scale or 1:20 or there abouts.

You're right.  Silly of me - I should have mentioned that my
ultimate goal is a 19th century 4-4-0 American running on Gauge 1
track at 1:32 scale.  The challenge is trying to get a decent
amount of steam from what looks like it ought to be a 48" boiler
- in scale, that's 1.5".

So let me see ... using the formula Harry Wade passed along, if
I've got 4.687" between tube sheets, the flues ought to be
between 0.242" and 0.279".  They don't make Type K or Type L (or
M or DWV) in a size that small.  What I can get readily from
suppliers is either ACR or industrial tubing with a 0.032" to
0.035" wall;  the 1/4" tubing has an ID of 0.186", which is
rather small.  Hmmm ...

Well, at least I have some good guidelines to work with.  Time to
do some sketching!

- - Steve


NO War on the World
NO Detentions & Roundups
NO Police State Restrictions
http://www.notinourname.net


 

Flue tube sizes

[steve boylan]

This list has been calm for the last day or so, so I figured it's time to
stir up yet another controversy - or at least collect some opinions from
the more experienced!

I'm sketching out alternatives for a boiler to power a 4-4-0 "American"
design.  There's not a heck of a lot of room to squeeze much into the
boiler, but the more flue tubes I can stuff in, the more heating surface
I get - and, therefore, the more steam.

So what do folks think ought to be the minimum flue tube inner diameter
for a boiler?  I would guess it might depend on the fuel;  solid fuel like
charcoal or coal would probably require bigger flues, no?  So what would
be the minimum flue diameter you'd like to see for alcohols?  For butane?
For coal?

And any thoughts about the minimum wall thickness?  How much wear should I
expect, for example, for a copper tube in a coal-fired boiler from gas,
ash, and cleaning?

- - Steve


NO War on the World
NO Detentions & Roundups
NO Police State Restrictions
http://www.notinourname.net

 

Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR

[steve boylan]

Harry,

You wrote:

> >But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!!
> >Steve
>
>  But that didn't make it attractive.  Petticoat Junction set the
> public's image of locomotive aesthetics back 100 years.(?)   Now on the
> other hand, paint a locomotive lilac purple, line and stripe and polish it
> from head to foot, hang the name of a town in brass and garlands of poseys
> as well as a gilt-edged portrait of 'er Majesty on it, now THERE'S
> aesthetics for you!  :-)

Didn't someone once say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder?"  But the
Brits weren't alone in extensive - one might say garish - ornament.  The
decorative aspects of mid-19th century American locomotives yield numerous
examples as well!

- - Steve
 

Re: Odious practices was Pine Creek RR

[steve boylan]

Harry wrote:

> >>And I hate "cow catchers"
>
>   I feel sort of the same way about painted white stars on the axle
> ends and moose antlers on the smokebox.

But ... but ... the PROTOTYPE did it!!

What more excuse do you need?

:-)

- - Steve

 

Re: G1mra and Threads

[steve boylan]

Paul wrote:

> > 12BA00-90(You are getting way too small
> > for me at this point!)
> >
> Ha ha!  That's nothing:)  I've seen some designs that call for a 000-120
> tap.  Takes like a number 80 tap drill.  Tap was worth over a hundred
> dollars, last I looked into it.

What, you mean you don't want to use 0.30 UNM screws?  Those are the scale
equivalent of a 3/8"-10 bolt in 1/32 scale (0.0118" body diameter, 318
TPI).

:-)

- - Steve

 

RE: Bronze Dee parts

[steve boylan]

Ken asked:

> Also there are some really odd (from a US standard) perspective thread
> sizes used (i.e. 5/32-40 tpi).

Having only recently figured that one out myself - yes, as Harry pointed
out, those are British model engineering threads.  The only convenient
source I've found for those here in the US is Sulphur Springs.  Check
their on-line catalog under "Shop Tools", "Taps & Dies", "British
Standard".

- - Steve

 

Re: Larry Bangham Whistle for Shay

[steve boylan]

Eric wrote:

> Just a bit of a heads up.  Larry informed me that he will be submitting
> an article to Steam in the Garden with complete, specific details and
> drawings on the custom whistle that he made for my Accucraft Mich-Cal
> Shay.  The article may also feature some of my photographs of the
> installed whistle -- including a nice shot of it in action, blasting a
> plume of steam.

but left out the information that would seem most important to this list:
what kind of camera - film or digital?  What f-stop & shutter speed?  What
lighting?

- - Steve

 

Re: PRELIM: IE&W RY Steamups 2003

[steve boylan]

Jim,

You wrote:

> There are no reasonable clearance restrictions, so anything that fits on
> 45mm track is ok regardless of scale.  The track is a combination of Llagas
> Creek code 215 and Sunset Valley code 250.

You realize, of course, that a paragraph like that would be taken as a
challenge to SOME on this list to come up with something really outrageous
that still runs on 45mm track.

Let's see ... can I rig bogies under my van ... ?

- - Steve
 

Re: Fabricating cylinders: Screwball or practical?

[steve boylan]

Trent,

You wrote:

>I'm not sure of the availability in your area, but try using a brass water
> pipe nipple instead of the steel pipe. The nipples can usually be found at the
> local hardware store and are not too terribly expensive. They're already
> "cored" and usually machine well.

Ah, of course!  Just the thing!  I'll have to stop by the hardware store
on the way home, grab a couple, and measure them.  Ought to work, and
won't have the problems steel does ...

- - Steve

 

Re: gt&e has first run

[steve boylan]

Dave pondered:

> At 12:43 PM -0800 11/20/02, Anthony Dixon wrote:
> >And no ash pit either!
>
> ash pit? why would butane-powered engines need an ash pit? ;-) ...

You need some place to put what's left of the cab after you fire it up?

:-)

- - Steve

 

Fabricating cylinders: Screwball or practical?

[steve boylan]

I think I'm ready to discuss this idea in public.  Is this a practical
idea for fabricating small cylinders, or is this completely harebrained?

I was trying to figure out how I could fabricate a cylinder for a 0.500"
bore and a stroke of 0.750".  While looking at various cross-sections, I
found myself thinking "Hmmm, you know, those look a lot like what you'd
get if you used three layers of telescoping tubing.  Hmmm ..."

So I did a bit of cipherin', and came up with this idea:  Take a length of
Schedule 80 pipe, which has an ID of 0.423" and an OD of 0.675".  Bore the
inside to a nice, smooth 0.500", then turn down the outside to to about
0.623".  Cut it to the length you need and notch the ends a wee bit to
form the steam ports.  This forms the inner surface of the cylinder.

Take a piece of heavy-wall 11/16" telescoping brass tubing, with an ID a
touch over 0.625" and an OD of 0.688".  Carefully mill a long, wide slot
to serve as the steam passage at each end, and braze that to the
aforementioned pipe.

Finally, take a piece of heavy-wall 5/8" telescoping brass tubing, mill
slots to allow steam to pass from the valve into the steam passages, and
braze that to form the outside surface of the cylinder.

For those of you who, like me, find it easier to see a picture instead of
trying to visualize this from words, I added a drawing of this idea to my
Web page at:

http://www.440american.org/Ideas/Cylinders.html

(The small image on that page is a bit coarse;  click on that image for a
larger view.)

I did a quick check on the area that this provides for the steam ports and
passages, and it's comparable to both scaled prototype areas and the areas
in the G1MRA "Project" and "Dee" model examples.

If you're worried about corrosion in a steel cylinder, it should be
possible to use a length of brass or bronze rod for the inner cylinder
instead of steel pipe.  You'd just have more work to do to bore the
cylinder, but it shouldn't be much different from boring a cylinder in a
block.

The overall idea can be scaled to other sizes as well.  The dimensions
given above work for the cylinders I'm developing.  You can either work
with readily available stock, as I've described above, or you can try
things like using strips of flat stock to create the steam passages.  (How
ambitious are you?)

So what do you all think:  is this a practical idea, or am I running with
no air in the brake line?

- - Steve

 

Re: instant Aster collection

[steve boylan]

Geoff,

You wrote:

> Yes, it's sad indeed. IF I was to sell one of my Asters on ebay the ad
> would read--e.g.
>
> "Beat up old Aster (blank) for sale. Scratchily assembled by old man. Many
> many hours of running,  two wrecks, three track fires. Will still fire up
> if you are willing to fiddle for two hours. Comes with bottle of Tanqueray
> to drink while fiddling."

I don't know about the rest of the crowd, but personally, I'd be much more
inclined to bid on that offer!  Hmmm, let me check my pockets:  a quarter
of a dollar, three quarters of a pound, half a Euro, and 3,000 won.  Think
that would win?  :-)

- - Steve

 

RE: American valve gear pic

[steve boylan]

Ken,

You replied:

> The light green part (hard to see & vertical) is the hanger which supports
> the eccentric links (purple). The slightly darker green horizontal part is
> the lifting arm, which raises and lowers the hanger (and therefore the
> eccentric link) as the johnson bar is moved. I am hoping our terminology is
> similar.

Okay, I think I've got the picture.  Terminology is close enough - and I
usually don't get it right without looking it up, anyway.  :-)

> As far as I know, the typical Stephenson motion has the eccentric links
> pivoting around the link block. The motion of the link block drives the
> valve through the rocker. The amount of motion is controlled by the location
> of the link block in the eccentric link as the eccentric link is raised and
> lowered by the lifting arm and hanger.

There were two approaches common in the late 19th century - though since
I'm at work instead of at home, I'll probably get the words scrambled.
What you've pictured is moving link:  the pivot points for the links are
raised and lowered by the lifting arm.

The other approach was "fixed links" - fixed only in that the pivot point
was attached to the frame.  The lifting arm instead raised and lowered the
valve rod (aka expansion arm, and not to be confused with the valve stem),
which raised and lowered the die block in the link.  There's a decent view
on Tim Overton's Web site at:

http://members.tripod.com/~TimothyPlatypus/NottinghamVictoria/SLDT2.html

except that the link block is backwards:  in 19th century American
practice, anyway, the center of the link block arc was FORWARD of the
block, toward the saddle, instead of towards the axle, which is normal for
the moving link.  (This is the same orientation as the "Bullied" link
block shown later on that Web page.)

My reference for this is Meyer's 1892 "Modern Locomotive Construction",
should anyone be wondering.

> If there is another method, I would be really interested in seeing it, as I
> am very short on space below the boiler. In fact, the model that you see has
> eccentric links that would hit the boiler in full gear. I am still
> contemplating going back to slip-eccentric as it's going to be a squeeze to
> get all of the stuff below the boiler and between the frames. I spent last
> night looking for ways to prevent hitting the boiler and ended up shortening
> the eccentric rods by quite a bit, which seems to help. The motion still
> appears to be OK, although with a bit more distortion between forward and
> reverse than I would like to see. But I'm not entirely sure on how to
> interpret the diagrams. Still learning.


I don't know if that idea will solve your clearance problem or not.  It
might make things more complicated.  Or, who knows, it might be the
answer!

Thanks for the details.  I'm very curious to see what you come up with!

- - Steve

 

Re: American valve gear pic

[steve boylan]

Ken,

You wrote:

> I just posted a jpeg of a preliminary model of the valve gear for my
> American project locomotive. Take a look here:
> http://moosedog.home.mindspring.com/ at file American valve gear.jpg &
> American valve gear 2.jpg.

Looks really good.  A couple technical questions:  is the light green
lever at the top the lifting arm?  And it looks like you're lifting the
links rather than the blocks, right?  (Not that it makes a difference, as
long as it works!)

Yeah, it looks like a lot of eensy-weensy bits, but not outrageous.
Personally, I'm just happy e-rings come in sizes down to a .040 shaft ...

- - Steve
 

RE: HOAX, was Re: ?virus

[steve boylan]

I know I'm coming in late to the debate:

> Oh what a great debate you and Geoff  have started, Mac vs. PC.  But as this
> is a live steam listserv, so we should be arguing that Roundhouse is better
> than Accucraft not that a PC is far superior to a Mac, even though it is!!!

and mindful of Dave's admonishment ... but I was waiting for them to
launch into the ever-bitter Baldwin vs. Alco vs. Lima debate ...

- - Steve

 

Re: Track Help for Ferdinand

[steve boylan]

Gary wrote:

> Despite these impressive figures, my stainless steel rail (AristoCraft) has
> run electric trains far more reliably than the brass rail I have always
> previously used. Cleaned with LGB rail cleaning engine twice in three years.
> Brass rail required a track cleaning run every time I wished to operate.

Like I said:  conductivity ain't the only factor.

I know from experience that oxidized brass is a pretty good insulator.
Anybody know the conductivity of iron oxide?  :-)

- - Steve

 

Re: American Project

[steve boylan]

Okay, time for me to chime in with my plugged nickle's worth.  Sorry it
took me so long, but the first couple weeks of October were pretty hectic.
I'm just now making my way back to the subject of a 1:32 scale project
based on the 4-4-0 "American" locomotive ...

 ... which I think would be a great project, and it's an idea I've been
toying with for a while.  I had been collecting some general prototype
information over the summer, and sketching out ideas about what a workable
model would look like.  The conversation on this subject over the last
couple of weeks has finally pushed me into doing something about it!

So I've done what any self-respecting 21st century modeller would do:
started a Web site.  I see the domain registration hit the DNS server this
morning, so you can now view the site at:

http://www.440american.org

T'ain't much there yet, but it's a start.  I'm hoping other folks will be
willing to join in and contribute knowledge, ideas, and maybe even a
drawing or two as time goes on.

Let the kibbitzing begin!

- - Steve


 

Re: Track Help for Ferdinand

[steve boylan]

Trot the Fox contributed:

> It's either Copper or Gold, I'm not sure which is absolute best.  I believe
> it's Copper.  Copper is used in most wiring for good reason
> though.  :)  Chip-makers are now converting over to Copper conductors
> inside the chips to improve speed and lower temps/power consumption over
> the Aluminum they had been using previously.  :)
>
> Trot, the semiconductor-working, fox...

The top conductivity is silver.  Unfortunately, silver rail tends to
oxidize quickly, and is hard to keep clean.  It's also much more expensive
than the more commonly-used materials.  :-)

For reference, here's a copy of a list of standard conductivities,
referenced to annealed copper:

Silver  106%
Copper  100%
Gold 65%
Aluminum (alloys)50%
Brass28%
Steel 3-15%
Nickle-silver 5%

In choosing a metal for trackwork, simple conductivity is not the only
consideration.  You also need to balance corrosion, surface oxidation,
mechanical strength, and cost.  All the usual engineering tradeoffs.

(One might ask "So why is so much gold used in semiconductor
manufacturing?"  Two good reasons:  it doesn't corrode or oxidize, so it
makes a great conductive or protective plating.  The other reason is that
it's highly ductile:  gold can easily be drawn into very fine wire which
is used to connect the lead frames to the chips.  Or at least it was last
time I took a few chips apart, which is now, um, some time ago!)

- - Steve, feeling pedantic
this morning.
 

RE: Lathes for Live Steamers

[steve boylan]

Steve wrote:

> But seriously, coal-fired is what I have in mind, and a basic 4-4-0 or 4-6-0
> American-style loco in 1:20 might be big enough and have the right
> proportions to accommodate a home-made coal-fired boiler.

I've had this wild fantasy of building something more mid-nineteenth
century:  a WOOD-fired 4-4-0.

("But ... but ... but ..." they all start to sputter ...)

Nay, consider this possibility:  if you can burn coal, why not wood
PELLETS?

Think about it ...

- - Steve
(No, the OTHER Steve!)

 

Goodall valves (was: Re: Tender Hand Pump)

[steve boylan]

Okay, I can't stand it anymore:  can someone please point me to sufficient
information about how a Goodall valve works so that I can understand why
they're so all-fired wonderful?  A well-done working drawing would be
particularly helpful!

- - Steve


 

Re: Cylinder gaskets

[steve boylan]

Vance,

You asked:

> > The high cotton content makes
>
> I thought they were linen?

Back in the Good Old Days, around the 18th century (and yes, I mean the
18th), linen rags were common, and a ready source of fibre for
high-quality paper.  For that matter, the wood pulp process hadn't been
worked out to the point where it was economical.

These days, I think you can still find linen paper, but most "rag" paper
is 100% cotton.  For a quick reference, take a look at Crane's business
papers:

http://www.crane.com/business/default.asp

The "Bond" and "Crest" papers are available in 20# to 28#;  un-watermarked
imaging papers up to 80#;  and cover stock up to 179#.  Somewhere in there
ought to be a gasket stock for just about anything!

Ah, yes - just did a quick follow-up search.  Sure enough, you can get
cotton/linen blend and "fine linen writing paper" as well.

- - Steve

 

Re: New guy with a question

[steve boylan]

Keith,

You wrote:

> Harry,
> Maybe not just as a Boxpoc look-a-like, but boy, to have a scale fully cored
> hollow spoke driver would be one major undertaking! And I'd be first in line
> to buy a set of those babies! Man alive! A full scale Number 1 gauge Lehigh
> Valley T-6,  4-8-4 Alco pulling about twenty 1/32" scale coal hoppers,
> that's my idea of heaven!

Now THERE'S a man with a mission!

- - Steve

 

Re: New guy with a question

[steve boylan]

Harry,

You wrote:

>  Keith took the words right out of my mouth and since it only needs
> to be said once I'll go one to say that this may be an opportunity for
> someone to join the ranks of the Small Scale Pattern Pool.  They wouldn't
> be hard to make, either the wheels proper or the patterns.

Sounds like my kind of folks.  Where do I sign up?  :-)

- - Steve

 

Re: Weymouth Steam Tug

[steve boylan]

J.R. and John,

That would be WoodenBoat Magazine at:

http://www.woodenboat.com/

and the WoodenBoat Store, accessible from the link on the main page or
directly at:

http://www2.mailordercentral.com/wbstore

If I'm not giving anything away, they carry the Midwest "Heritage" model
steam engine.

- - Steve

On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, NJMT wrote:

> John:
> I would pick up a copy of Wooden Boat magazine.  It is a beauty and includes
> ads for plans and such. In fact there is usually a short segment on models
> that have been built.  Wooden Boat Store (I think that is the name) has a
> good list of books, plans, and kits.  They may be on line.  Its a great
> magazine also.  Simply great.  I am sure you could track down what you need
> through there.
> J.R.
 

Re: nut height

[steve boylan]

Keith,

You cracked:

> Royce,
> Yes! And that is 6' 2" if it's sitting atop my head!
> Keith Taylor
> - Original Message -
> From: Royce Woodbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:22 PM
> Subject: nut height
>
> > Quick question, if anyone's listening out there.  Is there a "standard"
> > height for an 8BA model engineering nut ?
> >
> > royce
>

I knew it was a mistake giving you back that keyboard . . .

But, hey, I see you're back to using capital letters!

- - Steve

 

Re: Driving to D'head?

[steve boylan]

Richard wrote:

> Are you driving to D'head and arriving before Thursday afternoon?
> Could you do me a favor? I need a bag of BBQ charcoal briquets
> (standard variety, no quick lighting, or wood mix required) and a
> pint, quart, or gallon of kerosene (whatever is convenient). If it's
> not too inconvenient...

Y'know, if anyone involved with public safety in the US right now happened
to run across some of the postings on this list . . .

- - Steve

 

Welcome Back! (was: Re: bead blasting)

[steve boylan]

Keith,

You're typing!!  Congratulations!

Knew they couldn't keep you away from the keyboard for long...

- - Steve


 

Re: Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment

[steve boylan]

Casey,

You wrote:

> This weekend I visited the B&O museum in Baltimore, mostly to introduce my
> 2-1/2 year old grandson to model trains.  The Capitol Trackers, a 1/4" scale
> 3-rail modular group, had an extensive display set up on the turntable.
>
> While visiting the museum, I took a good look at the full size locomotives
> on display.  Several of them have cylinders mounted at an angle to the axis
> of the main frame.  In all cases these inclined cylinders are in line with
> the center of the wheel to which the main rod is attached.  These are all
> among the oldest locomotives in the collection, none newer than about 1870.
> All the newer locomotives have the cylinders aligned with the axis of the
> main frame, at the centerline of the driving wheels.

That's what I would have expected!  Maybe that's what the Baldwin drawing
I was looking at was trying to show.

> The B&O museum hosts a library that includes drawings and documents relating
> to the design and construction of locomotives in the collection.  There may
> be some information available on the topic of cylinder alignment in that
> collection.  The library is open to Museum members who want to do their own
> research.  The Museum library staff will do research for a fee.  Check the
> web site at http://www.borail.org/archives.asp and
> http://www.borail.org/fees.asp for more info.

Thanks!  I'm still adding to my collection of Places To Look For More
Details!

Have a safe and happy New Year!

- - Steve
 

Re: Rubber feet

[steve boylan]

Harry,

What do you mean by "local source"?  There's an electronics supplier near
here that sells a variety of sizes in packages of 10 or 20, but a source
10 miles from Boston might not be a big help for you.

Perhaps what you need, though, is available from Mouser Electronics:

P/N 534-722  Keystone rubber bumpers
.718" OD, .437" high, #4 screw
$0.78 each, 9,417 in stock

P/N 534-723  Keystone rubber bumpers
.937" OD, .375" high, #8 screw
$0.75 each, 18,756 in stock

Both can be viewed on-line at:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/cat_608/449.pdf

about the middle of the page.

I've been buying electronic components from them for several years, and
I've always had good service - even for silly small orders.  They will
count out 10 or 12 parts for you and ship them off.  (They are, of course,
happier with big orders, which is why those parts cost half as much if you
buy 100.)

Does that help?

- - Steve


On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Harry Wade wrote:

>   This kind of off-topic, but it is for a workshop project so here
> goes.   Does anyone have a local source for a small qauntity of rubber
> cabinet or machine feet?  What I need are those rubber bumper-like feet
> that can be screwed (or bolt and nutted) to the underside of say a metal
> cabinet.  What I need would be roughly 3/4"-1" diam x 1/2"-3/4" high, maybe
> a dozen of them.  I know where I can mail order in 100's, and the only
> thing available locally are small plastic things with sticky backs.  Any
> help would be appreciated.
>
>
> Regards,
> Harry Wade
> Nashville, Tn
>
>
 

Re: Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment

[steve boylan]

Keith,

You suggested:

> One reason is the loading gauge [...]

Now there's a thought!  I'll have to dig out a contemporary loading gauge
outline and overlay that on a section drawing.  If nothing else, it'll be
fun collecting the data!

Thanks for the idea.

- - Steve

 

Re: charcoal

[steve boylan]

Royce,

You asked:

> Hi Steve.  Thanks for your response.  And the next question is : would the
> resulting "charcoal" be useable as a substitute for coal ?

How desperate are you to get the engine moving?  :-)

The primary answer is no.  Charcoal consists of a light, spongy matrix of
carbon, with a lot of air space.  Coal is much more dense, and yields a
heck of a lot more heat, and produces a much hotter fire.

Of course, if what you have is a cold boiler and a pile of wood chips,
charcoal can get you moving!

For further details, I'll defer to the folks who have, um, quite a bit
more experience in actually firing anything.  I'll go back to working on
my first set of parts.

- - Steve

 

Re: Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment

[steve boylan]

Victor,

You kindly replied:

> I just flipped through a few drawings in "100 Years of the Steam Locomotive"
> and some do seem to show the center line of the cylinder pointing above the
> center of the main drive axle. In fact, the center lines appear parallel to
> one another.
>
> All this means is that the drawings are inaccurate in portraying the
> operating position of the cylinder and drive axle. The center line of the
> cylinder must point at the center of the drive axle when that axle is in its
> loaded position. Of course, this relationship changes slightly as the loco
> rises and falls while underway but these changes are most easily dealt with
> and minimized by pointing the center line of the cylinder at the drive axle
> center.

That's what I had thought, too.  For the exception that led me to believe
somethin' different, may I point to the Baldwin erection drawing for the
2-8-4s built as the Erie S-3 class, a scanned-in copy of which may be
found at:

http://gelwood.railfan.net/loco/eries3ai.gif

The journal boxes appear to be in the center of their travel, and the
centerline of the piston and crosshead is clearly marked 2" above the
wheel centerline.

I did a little toying around with the geometry, and the increase in
the stroke of the piston is only a few thousandths of an inch (this being
an American locomotive :-) ), but why the offset in the first place???

> If you look at material on design of the mechanism, whether inclined motion
> or "all square", you will see that this is one of the fundamental
> relationships that has to be established when designing the chassis.

Hence my puzzlement!!

- - Steve
 

Re: charcoal

[steve boylan]

Royce,

You asked:

> Suppose you had a boat load of 3/16" x 3/16" x 3/16" cubes of red or white
> oak.  How would one make their own charcoal?  Or is that too small?

and Bob gave you the long version of the recipe.  Here's the short
version:  you get it damned hot in the absence of oxygen.  The volatiles
are driven off, leaving mostly carbon.

Have fun, but don't breathe the fumes - high in carbon monoxide!

- - Steve

 

Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment

[steve boylan]

Okay, crew, here's the stoopid question of the day.  How's come most of
the locomotive drawings I've seen show the centerline of the piston and
the crosshead pin slightly to significantly above the centerline of the
main driving wheel?  What does this gain?

Logic - and a quick geometrical analysis - indicate that this will put
additional vertical loads on the crosshead, and (curiously) increase the
stroke of the piston.  And it doesn't appear to be a difference between
"boiler empty" and "boiler full";  the drawings that have enough detail to
be sure show the driver journals midway in their range, which oughta be
where the axles are designed to ride under normal operating conditions.

None of the references I have handy talk about the subject.  Anybody know?

- - Steve

 

Re: Another view on Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage

[steve boylan]

Jeff,

You wrote:

> It's true, Accucraft ain't perfect but if you check out the photo Mike Martin
> took of my C-16 recently at:
>
> http://www.panyo.com/dan/images/1Y170068.jpg
>
> then all oil consumption sins will be forgiven!!!  A beautiful thing!

Yow!  NICE PHOTO!

- - Steve

 

Re: Post-modernist wicks

[steve boylan]

Trent,

You wrote:

>Yes, and there's a few of us hard core tube traditionalist around as
> well. 

Wow!  I'm impressed!  I can't wait to see your all-vacuum-tube radio
control system.  :-)

- - Steve
 

Re: G1MRA Dee design

[steve boylan]

Keith,

You asked:

> I am SERIOUSLY considering building the Dee. What are your specific
> complaints about the drawings? And are you considering building this model
> too? If you are, I'd like to keep in touch with others who may be building
> this model.

I'm probably going to get singed as a curmudgeon for this (I'm not crusty
enough to be a geezer - yet!), but . . .  I found the drawings in the DEE
book very hard to read.  I learned drafting from my Dad's old engineering
college texts, which date back to the middele of the last century (kind of
gives it punch, doesn't it?  :-) ), so I tend to be pretty fussy.  But the
line weights aren't distinguished, lines and arc segments don't match up,
dimension lines don't align with the objects, and the annotations appear
to be done through typesetting.  The overall impression is that they tried
to do drafting with software that wasn't designed as a CADD tool.

Now, on the other track:  I also know from experience how hard it is to
get software to do what you really want it to do.  I also know how
expensive a decent CADD package is.  :-)  It still takes me days to do a
single drawing that I'm satisfied with (since I do this for a hobby, not
for a living - I'd probably starve if I was trying to make a living this
way!!).  And the DEE design itself is really nice, with some great
technical ideas.  While I may cuss and sputter, I think the book is a
great resource.

I don't yet know if I'll build a DEE or not.  My desire runs more towards
American prototypes rather than British.  And I'm afraid my first
choices would be from one of your past employer's competitors, the DL&W.
My current plan is to try the G1MRA "Project" design as a learning
experience, then I can decide whether I want to tackle the DEE or strike
out for an American design.

So many locomotives, so little time . . .

- - Steve

 

Re: "Budget" live steam

[steve boylan]

Larry,

There's a complete design in the G1MRA publication "The DEE Book".  The
book includes both an alcohol fuel system and a ceramic gas system,
complete with tank, valves, preheat loop, jet, and burner.

While I find myself cussing the style of the drawings, the book DOES have
a heck of a lot of good info.  I especially like John van Riemsdijk's
clever valve design.

- - Steve

On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Larry Buerer wrote:

> Ok, I have the equipment, I have built a simple pot boiler, Plan on building a
> simple steam engine. All not too hard. but I haven't seen a good detailed
> article on building a gas burner to heat the water. Where can such information
> be found? The articles on using ceramic burners seem to leave out the part
> about the jet and air mixture chamber and the fuel tank and delivery systems.
 

RE: BAGRS Project Locomotive

[steve boylan]

Steve,

You wrote:

> Go to the Potomac website http://users.erols.com/diesel/project/index.html
>   and the plans are
> available free for download.

Oh, THAT project!  I'd seen it while crawling around live steam sites on
the Web;  I hadn't realized that was the BAGRS project.  (But, now that I
look at the drawings, I see the title!)

Thanks for the pointer;  I probably wouldn't have found it under a path
labelled "diesel".  :-)  (Not that I'm agin' diesels, mind you, just that
I wouldn't be looking for a steam engine there!)

Hmmm . . . now, should I take a detour and play with that design, or keep
on with the current plan to try the G1MRA "Project" first?  Hmmm . . .

Thanks a tankful!

- - Steve

 

BAGRS Project Locomotive

[steve boylan]

Hold on a second, folks.  Y'all keep talking about the BAGRS Project
Locomotive, but some of us beginner types are still trying to catch up
here.  Sounds like that was a project published in "Steam in the Garden",
or somewhere similar.  Can I get a reference, or information on where to
get the project plans?

Thanks!

    - - Steve Boylan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]