Re: Survey is posted/scale speeds
Yep, I ran the F.S yesterday--I thought it was cruising at a nice 80mph--bet it was doing 156 at least. Geoff. Shays at a prototypical 60 mph? Hmmm! When Jeff brought his speed charts to PLS a few years ago I always thought I ran my RH#24 close to scale speed (about 20 mph). I was shocked when I timed it and found I was running at close to 45 MPH. Paul Quirk holds the current record at 155mph by the way. Phil P (Much snipped) Speaking of cow catchers, this Ruby has one--solid brass!. I'll let my Shay owner friends borrow it on occasion as most of them speed around at a prototypical 60mph. Well, you've been to steamups! Geoff.
Re: Survey is posted/scale speeds
At 12:37 AM -0500 3/24/03, Phil Paskos wrote: Paul Quirk holds the current record at 155mph by the way. we gotta get tony dixon and paul quirk at the same steamup ... one of them will surely break the world landspeed record ... ;-) ... \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 17-20, 2003 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
RE: Survey is posted/scale speeds
Geoff, I have a full set of scale speed charts posted on my website. They are scale specific and you can easily print them out if you wish. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Geoff Spenceley Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: Survey is posted/scale speeds Yep, I ran the F.S yesterday--I thought it was cruising at a nice 80mph--bet it was doing 156 at least. Geoff. Shays at a prototypical 60 mph? Hmmm! When Jeff brought his speed charts to PLS a few years ago I always thought I ran my RH#24 close to scale speed (about 20 mph). I was shocked when I timed it and found I was running at close to 45 MPH. Paul Quirk holds the current record at 155mph by the way. Phil P (Much snipped) Speaking of cow catchers, this Ruby has one--solid brass!. I'll let my Shay owner friends borrow it on occasion as most of them speed around at a prototypical 60mph. Well, you've been to steamups! Geoff.
RE: Survey is posted/scale speeds
Hey Chuck, Thanks a zillion, I have printed the charts, Now the surprises. -- if I run around the track at 3mph to keep up with the loco, that must 3X32 =96mph--kiddin' er--I think! I'll test that that theory using your charts! Thanks again. Cheers, Geoff. Geoff, I have a full set of scale speed charts posted on my website. They are scale specific and you can easily print them out if you wish. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
RE: Survey is posted
Hi Folks, The survey results are posted for the first 148 respondents I have so far. I won't make any observations about the data, but I did find it very interesting and surprising. I will update the data each week or whenever I get at least 10 more responses. Thank you for taking part in the survey. Maybe it will do some good. The results can be found by going to http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw and clicking on the Survey Results link on the left side. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw -Original Message- From: Chuck Walters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:29 AM To: Small Scale Live Steam Subject: Survey is posted Hi Folks, The survey is posted. If you would like to take part, please go to http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw and click on the survey link on the left side. When I get enough responses, I will post the results and then update it thereafter. Pass the word. I truly would like to see what my peers are doing and what they want from future live steam offerings. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
RE: Survey is posted
Thanks for doing this survey. I find it very interesting and fun to watch.Steve Speck. At 09:50 AM 3/23/03 -0500, you wrote: Hi Folks, The survey results are posted for the first 148 respondents I have so far. I won't make any observations about the data, but I did find it very interesting and surprising. I will update the data each week or whenever I get at least 10 more responses. Thank you for taking part in the survey. Maybe it will do some good. The results can be found by going to http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw and clicking on the Survey Results link on the left side. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw -Original Message- From: Chuck Walters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:29 AM To: Small Scale Live Steam Subject: Survey is posted Hi Folks, The survey is posted. If you would like to take part, please go to http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw and click on the survey link on the left side. When I get enough responses, I will post the results and then update it thereafter. Pass the word. I truly would like to see what my peers are doing and what they want from future live steam offerings. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
Re: Survey is posted
Chuck, Yep, on the what do we want to see produced question same results Aster got .. You name it, someone wants it, if you made it the way THEY wanted it. But very interesting to see. Thanks for your efforts, and a job well done! Well back outside to boil some more water... Jeff in NC
RE: Survey is posted
Thanks Jeff! My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Runge Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: Survey is posted Chuck, Yep, on the what do we want to see produced question same results Aster got .. You name it, someone wants it, if you made it the way THEY wanted it. But very interesting to see. Thanks for your efforts, and a job well done! Well back outside to boil some more water... Jeff in NC
Re: Survey is posted
Hi, Some interesting data there! Note the high number of people that started with a Frank-SO when you consider it's price compared to the introductory Ruby. I feel this is due to the large exposure LGB was able to cover of train fans/collectors, not just live steam people. I feel Aster and some of the other old line manufacturers are preaching to the choir and not out on the street corner recruiting converts like the Sally Ann did years ago. With the number of people that want a 4-4-0, guess I'd better put my Reno on the market. It is even gas fired! Now if I can just find a BRP consolidation, I'll be a happy camper. Spent most of today, until the rains came, working on the expansion of The SWAMP RR. Three more steaming bays -- outside this time -- along with 60 to 90 additional feet of 'yard' storage tracks. Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate
Re: Survey is posted
Walt, I'm not critsizing what you did, but this is from someone who prefers meth over gas. Did you build a new boiler for the Reno, or did you build a gas burner that fit in place of the original burner? That smithies boiler was always tempermental, is it better with gas firing? I'm one of those that started with a Frank S and after building an 8550 from kit, I found gas firing.. too easy ? I also feel more comfortable when doing maintanence on engines that I have built. And I just like the hands on of the meth firing I think. The more controls to play with the more fun! My last engine was the Mike I built when they first came out,several years ago. It looks like it will be a long wait for another meth fired u.s. mainline engine ( I can't spend 20k for Asters H-8 ) Accucraft is doing a nice job for the Narrow gauge, gas fired market, and I think this is very good for the hobby. Sorry to say the used market is very hi for used aster u.s. mainline. I know I'm in the minority in this hobby ( I also enjoy driving a manual transmission vehicles) but after I get these taxes paid, I willl resume looking BTW any pics of the track expansion? Jeff in NC
Re: Survey is posted
preaching to the choir and not out on the street corner recruiting converts like the Sally Ann did years ago. OK, Walt has issued the challenge -- what are we going to do in response? How about a pledge for each of us to have (or attend) an open house and teach at least one willing volunteer to run a live steamer? That's what got me hooked (thanks, Ken Matticks!) and you will all remember the thrill of your first run, I expect. We are remodeling our back yard so it will be more hospitable to a railroad, so all my track will be relaid and the railroad finally completed this spring or early summer. I intend to have a steam-and-batteries- only open house, and will teach anyone interested to fire a Ruby or C- 16. If we all did it and got one person interested in live steam, think of what an impact that would make on our overall numbers! regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted
Vance, You said in your post We are remodeling our back yard so it will be more hospitable to a railroad... It got me to thinking-What are some major points to having a successful live steam yard layout? I have a ground level line, and of course some of the weak points of bend and stoop have been mentioned. Hey, how about a survey Actually, does anyone have a List of what works and would like to share it? Vic in CA - Original Message - From: Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Survey is posted preaching to the choir and not out on the street corner recruiting converts like the Sally Ann did years ago. OK, Walt has issued the challenge -- what are we going to do in response? How about a pledge for each of us to have (or attend) an open house and teach at least one willing volunteer to run a live steamer? That's what got me hooked (thanks, Ken Matticks!) and you will all remember the thrill of your first run, I expect. We are remodeling our back yard so it will be more hospitable to a railroad, so all my track will be relaid and the railroad finally completed this spring or early summer. I intend to have a steam-and-batteries- only open house, and will teach anyone interested to fire a Ruby or C- 16. If we all did it and got one person interested in live steam, think of what an impact that would make on our overall numbers! regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted
To Vance and all: Interesting survey indeed. Lots of new Ruby owners myself included... You fellows who write the magazine articles, run the open houses and contribute how to articles are responsible for my getting into Live Steam. Thank you all so much. Entry level engines such as Ruby sold at resonable entry level prices, ie. less than $500.00 US also make it possible. I spent years working with R/C aircraft, cars and boats and helped many to get their starts in these hobbies, it's the friendly sharing of knowlege and skill coupled with the manufacturers willingness to provide affordable, practicle and servicable entry level products that draw participants into any hobby endevour. At the same time, middle and high end well detailed kits and RTR's give folks the goal of staying and advancing in the hobby. Some where down the road I hope to build a Spreewald, not now, I have Ruby to master and enjoy. As far as fuel types, I suppose meths, coal and even diesel/electric model engines are quite appropriate to wallet and skill levels, again something to look forward to. The Live Steam hobby would continue to benifit from continued entry level offerings and so many of the great articles and advice from sources like this, coupled with all of the advanced dream machines that I certainly hope to operate someday Thank you Vance and to the rest of all of you who keep showing me the right track!Dan McGrath. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: Survey is posted
Well, we're actually remodeling ours to make it all ground-level. (!?) The reason is that it had a slight slope, which was too much to ignore, but not enough to have major features like long trestles or other workarounds. We had three terraced levels, and we've built a retaining wall at the bottom of the middle level and are filling in the former upper and middle terraces. For interest, there is a stream to conduct runoff water away from the house and towards the trees at the bottom of the yard, as well as a berm to accentuate the depth of the stream bed. But, while it's basically a ground-level line, intended as a scenic railway with plants and buildings and such, the retaining wall separating the upper and lower areas is 30 above the bottom level. With a track running right along that wall, you'll only have to bend over slightly to get at your loco on a steamup siding, while the other trains roll by on the mainline. The best live steam railroad is just a roadbed on posts. That definition of best considers only the operational end, though, and we want a nice rock garden and miniature landscape to look at while we're not running the trains. So, we're willing to compromise a little on the operations in order to ease the aesthetic impact. On the other hand, the best live steam railroad is the one that looks the most like a real railroad for your real locomotives to run on. De gustibus non disputandum. I have baby pictures, if anyone's interested. :-) regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted
Vance, On the subject of best kind of line, you need to address one subject. MAINTENANCE. From personal exp. a ground level requires much more of one's time than does a raised steaming track. If a garden railroad is a family hobby, or you are retired( unlimited time) than the garden theme may be fine, however you should have at least one raised area for steaming. If you time is limited and you are doing it youself, you will be doing a lot more gardening than steaming which is ok if you enjoy gardening. I considers in yard WORK. Depending on where you live, a ground level track may reduce you runningseason When I lived in Pennsylvania, I remember not seeing my track for months! However this may not be an issue in your neck of the woods! just my 2 cents Jeff in NC
Re: Survey is posted
Jeff, good points, to be sure. My wife likes gardening and already has a donor bed with ground covers and rock plants that we know will thrive in our climate. The snow we get is rarely more than a couple of inches at a time and never lasts more than a few days, so the opportunities for running are almost year-round here. (In fact, all of the work on the retaining wall and fill have been done in the last six weeks or so, in between brief cold snaps and a few snow showers.) So, the garden aspect is important to us, as well, and therefore is not maintenance but part of the hobby. I'm not big on gardening work, but since there are two of us, we should be able to divide the labor into areas we each enjoy and come up with something more interesting than either of us alone has time or inclination to do. That's what the partnership is all about! No doubt about it, though, if your main or sole priority is run the locomotives, then the raised track is clearly the best solution. Like I said, de gustibus non disputandum, there's no use arguing about matters of taste. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
RE: Survey is posted
Thanks Chuck for your efforts on our behalf--it is very interesting. I thought I would be the only one suggesting the Britannia Pacific but there were two of us. There were also only 2 of us over 80. That's me and the other fellow who probably suggested the Britannia too. That's 'cos we are cool, man!! Thanks Jeff Runge for your input on alcohol. I finally have a lovely Ruby, bought used, with a tender and other mods. Really a cleverly built loco, I am impressed. Jeff, I figure a chap as dumb as me could change it to alky. it has an extra blank fitting on the distribution block where a blower could be connected and the firebox could be ala Aster C type boiler. The burners would also heat the tube running under the boiler which is the feed to the engine--a sort of super heater. The exhaust tube could be shortened for the nozzle and the smoke box sealed, yes, a petticoat too! The tender could accommodate an alcohol tank and a water tank with a hand pump. A 45 min run!! Lovely! Has anyone considered this over the rather boring, expensive butane firing? Speaking of cow catchers, this Ruby has one--solid brass!. I'll let my Shay owner friends borrow it on occasion as most of them speed around at a prototypical 60mph. Well, you've been to steamups! Geoff.
Re: Survey is posted
My Reno was not a good runner using alcohol. Two other Floridians felt the same, so we cooperatively fitted ceramic burners, had gas tanks made to replace the alcohol tank, etc. Runs great now. Wish I could figure a way to do the same to the Americanized Mogul. Have never been able to get that thing to run fair, let alone good! One advantage of using the 1.5 PVC pipe legs, and 1 or 2 aluminum frames to construct an elevated track is that it is easily disguised as a hedge! Insert hedge type plants under the track, paint the structure green, let the plants grow up to the appropriate height, and voila! an elevated garden RR. My only problem was that I did not select freeze proof plants...about every third year we get a frost during the winter and that sets the Ixora back a bit. Mr. Lunkenheimer is working on alternative plants. Keep your steam up! Walt Lunk
Re: Survey is posted
Walt, Have you raised the boiler on the mogul ? The Quirks had me do this and it was a big help, I believe Murry Wilson did also( he has the later version like you have) Mine was an early single cyl, that I converted to a 2 cyl, but they are 13mm cyl, I believe yours are 10mm cyls. Will the burner you made for the Reno, fit under mogul, and use the Reno tender for test purposes? Jeff in NC
Re: Survey is posted
The extra axle aft makes for a problem with the mogul. The burner is split, unlike the Reno. Keep your steam up! Walt
Re: Survey is posted
Hey Jeff, I also prefer alcohol fired engines. The reason is that I like having a blower on the engine. It seems more realistic adjusting the blower and steam regulator to the load being pulled. It is interesting and fun to get the two just right. Steve Speck. At 03:53 PM 3/23/03 -0500, you wrote: Walt, I'm not critsizing what you did, but this is from someone who prefers meth over gas. Did you build a new boiler for the Reno, or did you build a gas burner that fit in place of the original burner? That smithies boiler was always tempermental, is it better with gas firing? I'm one of those that started with a Frank S and after building an 8550 from kit, I found gas firing.. too easy ? I also feel more comfortable when doing maintanence on engines that I have built. And I just like the hands on of the meth firing I think. The more controls to play with the more fun! My last engine was the Mike I built when they first came out,several years ago. It looks like it will be a long wait for another meth fired u.s. mainline engine ( I can't spend 20k for Asters H-8 ) Accucraft is doing a nice job for the Narrow gauge, gas fired market, and I think this is very good for the hobby. Sorry to say the used market is very hi for used aster u.s. mainline. I know I'm in the minority in this hobby ( I also enjoy driving a manual transmission vehicles) but after I get these taxes paid, I willl resume looking BTW any pics of the track expansion? Jeff in NC
Re: Survey is posted/ visitors to track
We had a special safety meeting at the Pennsylvania Live Steam track today. It was a very nice spring day. The old Reading Railroad right of way that fronts PLS has been converted to a county hiking/biking trail. We had a lot of visitors that never knew we were there. We handed out 4 applications for associate memberships. I'm not sure what is going to happen in a few weeks when we have our first official run day. I ran my RH#24 for the first time in a while. Great day. Track wintered well. Phil P preaching to the choir and not out on the street corner recruiting converts like the Sally Ann did years ago. OK, Walt has issued the challenge -- what are we going to do in response? How about a pledge for each of us to have (or attend) an open house and teach at least one willing volunteer to run a live steamer? That's what got me hooked (thanks, Ken Matticks!) and you will all remember the thrill of your first run, I expect. We are remodeling our back yard so it will be more hospitable to a railroad, so all my track will be relaid and the railroad finally completed this spring or early summer. I intend to have a steam-and-batteries- only open house, and will teach anyone interested to fire a Ruby or C- 16. If we all did it and got one person interested in live steam, think of what an impact that would make on our overall numbers! regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted/live steam layout
There is no one answer to this one. Your terrain, the kind of soil, where in the country you live, as well as space and finances all make a big difference in how you build it. Ground level for anyone not in very good physical condition or older than ?? is not a good thing, but the materials we use in the S.E. PA area don't work well in Florida or the desert area of Nevada. I know this doesn't answer your question, but there is no one answer that works for every body everywhere. Phil P Vance, You said in your post We are remodeling our back yard so it will be more hospitable to a railroad... It got me to thinking-What are some major points to having a successful live steam yard layout? I have a ground level line, and of course some of the weak points of bend and stoop have been mentioned. Hey, how about a survey Actually, does anyone have a List of what works and would like to share it? Vic in CA
Re: Survey is posted/SS live steam layouts
Sound like a great setup to me. Phil P Well, we're actually remodeling ours to make it all ground-level. (!?) The reason is that it had a slight slope, which was too much to ignore, but not enough to have major features like long trestles or other workarounds. We had three terraced levels, and we've built a retaining wall at the bottom of the middle level and are filling in the former upper and middle terraces. For interest, there is a stream to conduct runoff water away from the house and towards the trees at the bottom of the yard, as well as a berm to accentuate the depth of the stream bed. But, while it's basically a ground-level line, intended as a scenic railway with plants and buildings and such, the retaining wall separating the upper and lower areas is 30 above the bottom level. With a track running right along that wall, you'll only have to bend over slightly to get at your loco on a steamup siding, while the other trains roll by on the mainline. The best live steam railroad is just a roadbed on posts. That definition of best considers only the operational end, though, and we want a nice rock garden and miniature landscape to look at while we're not running the trains. So, we're willing to compromise a little on the operations in order to ease the aesthetic impact. On the other hand, the best live steam railroad is the one that looks the most like a real railroad for your real locomotives to run on. De gustibus non disputandum. I have baby pictures, if anyone's interested. :-) regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted/scale speeds
Shays at a prototypical 60 mph? Hmmm! When Jeff brought his speed charts to PLS a few years ago I always thought I ran my RH#24 close to scale speed (about 20 mph). I was shocked when I timed it and found I was running at close to 45 MPH. Paul Quirk holds the current record at 155mph by the way. Phil P (Much snipped) Speaking of cow catchers, this Ruby has one--solid brass!. I'll let my Shay owner friends borrow it on occasion as most of them speed around at a prototypical 60mph. Well, you've been to steamups! Geoff.
Re: Survey is posted
Chuck, please put a note on the SitG discussion board, so anyone who's not on this list, but is demonstrably interested in small-scale live steam, can participate. The more responses, the better! regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Survey is posted
Great page you have there. Fantastic. Did the survey too. Seemed simple enough. Look forward to the responses. - Original Message - From: Chuck Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:29 AM Subject: Survey is posted Hi Folks, The survey is posted. If you would like to take part, please go to http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw and click on the survey link on the left side. When I get enough responses, I will post the results and then update it thereafter. Pass the word. I truly would like to see what my peers are doing and what they want from future live steam offerings. My Best, Chuck Charles W. Walters Twin Lakes Railway CEO http://home.twcny.rr.com/twinlakesrw
