Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Ralph Meijer]

On 13/03/2019 22.16, Kevin Smith wrote:




On 13 Mar 2019, at 17:37, Peter Saint-Andre  wrote:

I can help, but I would not object to adding a more active co-author
(preferably an implementor of the spec).


Do you want to request a last call? Under the new rules Council aren’t allowed 
to trigger an LC any more unless either the authors request it or the authors 
abandon the XEP.


Kev,

I think this is a very narrow reading of the new text, and I don't agree 
that this says the Approving Body cannot issue (=/= trigger) a Last 
Call, via the Editor, if it so sees fit. What the changed text is meant 
to ensure is that once a Last Call is issued, there's somebody, either 
an author or document shepherd, to process feedback of that Last Call 
and during the approval process of the Approving Body. And that there's 
a defined way to propose advancement by authors, or others in case it 
appears that the authors are no longer interested in such advancement.


If you think this new wording suggests that the Approving Body (in this 
case Council) is no longer in full control of the process, then please 
propose changes so this can be rectified.


--
ralphm
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Travis Burtrum]

On 3/13/19 12:55 PM, Ralph Meijer wrote:


On 13/03/2019 15.09, Travis Burtrum wrote:

On 3/13/19 3:40 AM, Philipp Hörist wrote:

Whats the use case for this XEP?
Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i 
see this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active 
connection to the XMPP Server.


Like DoH, where you hard-code an IP, port, path, and whether to query 
via POST or GET to bootstrap your first DNS queries, the same can be 
done here by hard-coding a IP, port, JID, password, and resolver JID.


The syntax I use for this in jDnsProxy is this:

xmpp://208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org/resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener 



I haven't looked in-depth towards your proposal, but this is not
probably not a valid XMPP URI, or at least not how you think it is.
Oh it's certainly not a valid XMPP URI, just syntax I invented for my 
configuration format.  I mainly meant to convey to use DoX to bootstrap 
DNS you'd need to hardcode:


1. a JID + password to log in with
2. server IP + port to log in to
3. resolver JID to send DNS queries to

Not very different from the things that are hard-coded to use DoH:

1. server IP + port
2. path
3. POST vs GET
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Philipp Hancke]

Am 13.03.19 um 22:16 schrieb Kevin Smith:




On 13 Mar 2019, at 17:37, Peter Saint-Andre  wrote:

I can help, but I would not object to adding a more active co-author
(preferably an implementor of the spec).


Do you want to request a last call? Under the new rules Council aren’t allowed 
to trigger an LC any more unless either the authors request it or the authors 
abandon the XEP.


with my authors hat on: requesting a LC.



/K




Peter


On 3/13/19 10:53 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:
Philipp, Peter,

Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?

Andrew,

If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call feedback?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 13:14, Ненахов Андрей
mailto:andrew.nenak...@redsolution.ru>>
wrote:

Hello, everyone.

Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation
 to draft, please?

We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.


--
Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Kevin Smith]

> On 13 Mar 2019, at 17:37, Peter Saint-Andre  wrote:
> 
> I can help, but I would not object to adding a more active co-author
> (preferably an implementor of the spec).

Do you want to request a last call? Under the new rules Council aren’t allowed 
to trigger an LC any more unless either the authors request it or the authors 
abandon the XEP. 

/K


> 
> Peter
> 
>> On 3/13/19 10:53 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:
>> Philipp, Peter,
>> 
>> Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?
>> 
>> Andrew,
>> 
>> If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call feedback?
>> 
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 13:14, Ненахов Андрей
>> mailto:andrew.nenak...@redsolution.ru>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>Hello, everyone.
>> 
>>Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation
>> to draft, please?
>> 
>>We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
>>notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.
>> 
>> 
>>-- 
>>Andrew Nenakhov
>>CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
>>https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Philipp Hancke]

Lance, I think we had an implementation of it somewhere?

Am 13.03.19 um 14:27 schrieb Daniel Gultsch:

To draft?! If anything we should probably bring it back to Experimental.
I suggest you implement it and then provide feedback on how well it performed.

I’ve looked into into that XEP in the past (in regards to jingle voice
calls) and I don’t see anything wrong with it. However we need actual
experience implementing it before we can move something to draft.

cheers
Daniel

Am Mi., 13. März 2019 um 13:15 Uhr schrieb Ненахов Андрей
:


Hello, everyone.

Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to draft, please?

We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push notifications, 
and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.


--
Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
https://redsolution.com
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 3/13/19 11:46 AM, Ненахов Андрей wrote:
> 
> 
> ср, 13 мар. 2019 г. в 21:54, Dave Cridland  >:
> 
> Philipp, Peter,
> 
> Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call
> feedback?
> 
> 
> Probably, I can, but I don't know exactly what exactly 'handle
> processing Last Call feedback' means (Sorry for my ignorance). We do
> plan to implement it, though.

People send comments on the list, and we answer their questions, propose
modifications to the text of the document, submit or process pull
requests, etc. For a small spec like this, it should be pretty simple.
Plus if you are a co-author if you will be famous forever. ;-)

Peter

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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Ненахов Андрей]

ср, 13 мар. 2019 г. в 21:54, Dave Cridland :

> Philipp, Peter,
>
> Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?
>
> Andrew,
>
> If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call feedback?
>

Probably, I can, but I don't know exactly what exactly 'handle processing
Last Call feedback' means (Sorry for my ignorance). We do plan to implement
it, though.

-- 
Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Many years ago, people in Cuba used XMPP to get to the web because HTTP
ports were blocked. :-)

However, with DoH I am not sure we need DoX, too.

Peter

On 3/13/19 2:02 AM, Sergey Ilinykh wrote:
> I guess it's something about accessing forbidden resources from
> restrictive corporate networks. 
> 
> ср, 13 мар. 2019 г., 10:40 Philipp Hörist  >:
> 
> Whats the use case for this XEP?
> Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i
> see this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active
> connection to the XMPP Server.
> 
> regards
> Philipp
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Peter Saint-Andre]

I can help, but I would not object to adding a more active co-author
(preferably an implementor of the spec).

Peter

On 3/13/19 10:53 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:
> Philipp, Peter,
> 
> Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call feedback?
> 
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 13:14, Ненахов Андрей
> mailto:andrew.nenak...@redsolution.ru>>
> wrote:
> 
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation
>  to draft, please?
> 
> We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
> notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Nenakhov
> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
> https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Unnikrishnan V]

Can't we use xep-0215 and add type dns also or  needed application type
?


On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:56 AM Ralph Meijer  wrote:

>
> On 13/03/2019 15.09, Travis Burtrum wrote:
> > On 3/13/19 3:40 AM, Philipp Hörist wrote:
> >> Whats the use case for this XEP?
> >> Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i
> >> see this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active
> >> connection to the XMPP Server.
> >
> > Like DoH, where you hard-code an IP, port, path, and whether to query
> > via POST or GET to bootstrap your first DNS queries, the same can be
> > done here by hard-coding a IP, port, JID, password, and resolver JID.
> >
> > The syntax I use for this in jDnsProxy is this:
> >
> > xmpp://
> 208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org/resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener
>
> I haven't looked in-depth towards your proposal, but this is not
> probably not a valid XMPP URI, or at least not how you think it is. As
> per RFC 5122, the relevant ABNF productions look like this:
>
>   xmppiri= "xmpp" ":" ihierxmpp
>[ "?" iquerycomp ]
>[ "#" ifragment ]
>   ihierxmpp  = iauthpath / ipathxmpp
>   iauthpath  = "//" iauthxmpp [ "/" ipathxmpp ]
>   iauthxmpp  = inodeid "@" ihost
>   ipathxmpp  = [ inodeid "@" ] ihost [ "/" iresid ]
>
> In your case, I think your example would parses as:
>
> iauthpath: 208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org
>inode: 208.68.163.210:5222#user=anyjid
>ihost: example.org
> ipathxmpp:
> resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener
>inode: resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=dns
>ihost: moparisthebest.com
>iresid: listener
>
> Although the # cannot be in inodeid (reserved and not in nodeallow), in
> which case the alternative would consider everything behind the # to be
> ifragment, but then ihierxmpp doesn't produce because there's no inodeid
> + "@" in the iauthxmpp, and there's no "/" + ipathxmpp following it.
>
> You may want to have another look at this.
>
> --
> ralphm
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Ralph Meijer]

On 13/03/2019 15.09, Travis Burtrum wrote:

On 3/13/19 3:40 AM, Philipp Hörist wrote:

Whats the use case for this XEP?
Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i 
see this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active 
connection to the XMPP Server.


Like DoH, where you hard-code an IP, port, path, and whether to query 
via POST or GET to bootstrap your first DNS queries, the same can be 
done here by hard-coding a IP, port, JID, password, and resolver JID.


The syntax I use for this in jDnsProxy is this:

xmpp://208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org/resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener


I haven't looked in-depth towards your proposal, but this is not
probably not a valid XMPP URI, or at least not how you think it is. As
per RFC 5122, the relevant ABNF productions look like this:

 xmppiri= "xmpp" ":" ihierxmpp
  [ "?" iquerycomp ]
  [ "#" ifragment ]
 ihierxmpp  = iauthpath / ipathxmpp
 iauthpath  = "//" iauthxmpp [ "/" ipathxmpp ]
 iauthxmpp  = inodeid "@" ihost
 ipathxmpp  = [ inodeid "@" ] ihost [ "/" iresid ]

In your case, I think your example would parses as:

iauthpath: 208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org
  inode: 208.68.163.210:5222#user=anyjid
  ihost: example.org
ipathxmpp: 
resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener

  inode: resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=dns
  ihost: moparisthebest.com
  iresid: listener

Although the # cannot be in inodeid (reserved and not in nodeallow), in
which case the alternative would consider everything behind the # to be
ifragment, but then ihierxmpp doesn't produce because there's no inodeid
+ "@" in the iauthxmpp, and there's no "/" + ipathxmpp following it.

You may want to have another look at this.

--
ralphm
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Dave Cridland]

Philipp, Peter,

Do either of you want to remain involved with this one?

Andrew,

If they don't, would you be able to handle processing Last Call feedback?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 13:14, Ненахов Андрей 
wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
>
> Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation
>  to draft, please?
>
> We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
> notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.
>
>
> --
> Andrew Nenakhov
> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
> https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Council Minutes 2019-02-27

[Kevin Smith]

On 2 Mar 2019, at 18:56, Tedd Sterr  wrote:
> 3a) PR #758 - XEP-0060: Expose pubsub#access_model and pubsub#publish_model - 
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/758 
> Jonas assumes this is still optional, so that existing services aren't 
> suddenly non-compliant; Link confirms.

As far as I can tell, this is inside an if you do this (OPTIONAL) you SHOULD 
include all the fields, so it’s not clear to me that this is true.

I think I should -1 on that basis, but hoping that someone tells me I’ve 
misunderstood.


> 3b) PR #760 - XEP-0045: Add avatar support using XEP-0084 - 
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/760 
-1. It doesn’t look immediately wrong, but seems to introduce pubsub on MUC 
without further discussion of what that means or needs - if the intention is 
that just this one node is supported it’s not clear to me why, and if other 
nodes are supported we probably need to document what ACL etc. applies in the 
general case.

/K

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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Travis Burtrum]

On 3/13/19 3:40 AM, Philipp Hörist wrote:

Whats the use case for this XEP?
Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i see 
this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active 
connection to the XMPP Server.


Like DoH, where you hard-code an IP, port, path, and whether to query 
via POST or GET to bootstrap your first DNS queries, the same can be 
done here by hard-coding a IP, port, JID, password, and resolver JID.


The syntax I use for this in jDnsProxy is this:

xmpp://208.68.163.210:5222#user=any...@example.org/resolver;pass=y0urPa55W0rDHere;resolverJid=d...@moparisthebest.com/listener
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Ненахов Андрей]

Well, I was writing on heels of discussion,

Wednesday, 13 March, 2019
[18:07:34] Zash:
Andrew Nenakhov: Is 0353 in need of anything specific or could it be
advanced as-is?
[18:09:12] Andrew Nenakhov:
Zash, my developer says he did everything as is in 0353, so it's probably
good to use
[18:10:20] Zash:
Andrew Nenakhov: If they have any feedback then that would be good to share
with the list. Even if it's just "It's fine, it could made Draft"

If it's should be read as 'experimental', ok.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 18:29 Daniel Gultsch,  wrote:

> To draft?! If anything we should probably bring it back to Experimental.
> I suggest you implement it and then provide feedback on how well it
> performed.
>
> I’ve looked into into that XEP in the past (in regards to jingle voice
> calls) and I don’t see anything wrong with it. However we need actual
> experience implementing it before we can move something to draft.
>
> cheers
> Daniel
>
> Am Mi., 13. März 2019 um 13:15 Uhr schrieb Ненахов Андрей
> :
> >
> > Hello, everyone.
> >
> > Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to draft,
> please?
> >
> > We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
> notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Nenakhov
> > CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
> > https://redsolution.com
> > ___
> > Standards mailing list
> > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
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Re: [Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Daniel Gultsch]

To draft?! If anything we should probably bring it back to Experimental.
I suggest you implement it and then provide feedback on how well it performed.

I’ve looked into into that XEP in the past (in regards to jingle voice
calls) and I don’t see anything wrong with it. However we need actual
experience implementing it before we can move something to draft.

cheers
Daniel

Am Mi., 13. März 2019 um 13:15 Uhr schrieb Ненахов Андрей
:
>
> Hello, everyone.
>
> Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to draft, please?
>
> We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push notifications, 
> and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.
>
>
> --
> Andrew Nenakhov
> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
> https://redsolution.com
> ___
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[Standards] Move XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation to Draft

[Ненахов Андрей]

Hello, everyone.

Could we please advance XEP-0353: Jingle Message Initiation
 to draft, please?

We need it because bare XEP-0166 does not work well with push
notifications, and does not support 'ring an all devices' behaviour.


-- 
Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Extending XEP-0085 Chat State Notifications, again

[Ненахов Андрей]

Counter-proposal:
>
> 
>   
> 
>
> I believe this should work fine and means we're not changing XEP-0085
> (which is, indeed, Final).
>

I'm fine with this as a messaging standard. However, I'm not really into
adding yet another XEP with number in 400s, but if it's how things work, ok.

What's the next step? Following discussion on x...@muc.xmpp.org i'm not
really sure what to do to move things forward. Should I submit a xep with
, or who?

-- 
Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
https://redsolution.com 
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Sergey Ilinykh]

I guess it's something about accessing forbidden resources from restrictive
corporate networks.

ср, 13 мар. 2019 г., 10:40 Philipp Hörist :

> Whats the use case for this XEP?
> Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i see
> this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active connection
> to the XMPP Server.
>
> regards
> Philipp
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Philipp Hörist]

Whats the use case for this XEP?
Until now i only needed DNS querys to connect to the XMPP Server, i see
this XEP is not helping with that as it already needs an active connection
to the XMPP Server.

regards
Philipp
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Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: DNS Queries over XMPP (DoX)

[Evgeny]

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 11:08 PM, Jonas Schäfer  
wrote:

This specification defines an XMPP protocol extension for sending DNS
queries and getting DNS responses over XML streams. Each DNS query-
response pair is mapped into an IQ exchange.


Is this supposed to be an April 1st joke?

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