Re: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Zahid Rahman 

Also if you pay for consultancy and the consultancy company
doesn't give you the correct and complete information you require.

The consultancy company is liable to be sued by the one who
sought advice and did n't get what she/he paid for.


- Original Message -
From: "Zahid Rahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: Indemnification & copyright


> To answer your original question
> There is a company called Price Waterhouse.
> It is a well known and respected consultancy company
> who can give you the official line on these matters.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Malcolm Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 3:23 AM
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> > Martin,
> > Thanks for your insight.  I will do some more research and
> > then contact ASF.
> > - Malcolm
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:37 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
> >
> >
> > I think the main risk is due to the nature of the patent
> > process, the
> > difficulty of patent searches, and the apparent ineptitude
> > of the US PTO.
> > It's certainly possible that an Apache committer could
> > inadvertently violate
> > a patent, just as any other developer might.
> >
> > The copyright issue cannot be ruled out, but I think the
> > risk there is very
> > minimal. Given that Apache is a meritocracy, the chances of
> > one of the
> > committers being dumb enough to commit copyrighted code in
> > full view of the
> > community is very small (albeit non-zero).
> >
> > I would suggest that you contact the ASF directly, rather
> > than looking at
> > this from the project level. You can look at the ASF Bylaws
> > here:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
> >
> > and the primary contact information is here:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/contact.html
> >
> > --
> > Martin Cooper
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:02 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Indemnification & copyright
> > >
> > >
> > > To Struts Team, Developers and Users
> > >
> > > I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> > > am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> > > indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> > > 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> > > copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> > > 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> > > 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
> > >
> > > The liability extends from the use of intellectual
> > property.
> > > A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece
> > of
> > > software to the Open Source community that contains
> > > intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open
> > source
> > > software.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any comments,
> > > malcolm
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
>
> --
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Re: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Zahid Rahman 

To answer your original question
There is a company called Price Waterhouse.
It is a well known and respected consultancy company
who can give you the official line on these matters.

- Original Message -
From: "Malcolm Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 3:23 AM
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


> Martin,
> Thanks for your insight.  I will do some more research and
> then contact ASF.
> - Malcolm
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:37 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> I think the main risk is due to the nature of the patent
> process, the
> difficulty of patent searches, and the apparent ineptitude
> of the US PTO.
> It's certainly possible that an Apache committer could
> inadvertently violate
> a patent, just as any other developer might.
>
> The copyright issue cannot be ruled out, but I think the
> risk there is very
> minimal. Given that Apache is a meritocracy, the chances of
> one of the
> committers being dumb enough to commit copyrighted code in
> full view of the
> community is very small (albeit non-zero).
>
> I would suggest that you contact the ASF directly, rather
> than looking at
> this from the project level. You can look at the ASF Bylaws
> here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html
>
> and the primary contact information is here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/contact.html
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:02 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Indemnification & copyright
> >
> >
> > To Struts Team, Developers and Users
> >
> > I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> > am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> > indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> > 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> > copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> > 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> > 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
> >
> > The liability extends from the use of intellectual
> property.
> > A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece
> of
> > software to the Open Source community that contains
> > intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open
> source
> > software.
> >
> > Thanks for any comments,
> > malcolm
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Malcolm Davis 

Martin,
Thanks for your insight.  I will do some more research and
then contact ASF.
- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:37 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


I think the main risk is due to the nature of the patent
process, the
difficulty of patent searches, and the apparent ineptitude
of the US PTO.
It's certainly possible that an Apache committer could
inadvertently violate
a patent, just as any other developer might.

The copyright issue cannot be ruled out, but I think the
risk there is very
minimal. Given that Apache is a meritocracy, the chances of
one of the
committers being dumb enough to commit copyrighted code in
full view of the
community is very small (albeit non-zero).

I would suggest that you contact the ASF directly, rather
than looking at
this from the project level. You can look at the ASF Bylaws
here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html

and the primary contact information is here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/contact.html

--
Martin Cooper


> -Original Message-
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> To Struts Team, Developers and Users
>
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
>
> The liability extends from the use of intellectual
property.
> A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece
of
> software to the Open Source community that contains
> intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open
source
> software.
>
> Thanks for any comments,
> malcolm
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>


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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Martin Cooper 

I think the main risk is due to the nature of the patent process, the
difficulty of patent searches, and the apparent ineptitude of the US PTO.
It's certainly possible that an Apache committer could inadvertently violate
a patent, just as any other developer might.

The copyright issue cannot be ruled out, but I think the risk there is very
minimal. Given that Apache is a meritocracy, the chances of one of the
committers being dumb enough to commit copyrighted code in full view of the
community is very small (albeit non-zero).

I would suggest that you contact the ASF directly, rather than looking at
this from the project level. You can look at the ASF Bylaws here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html

and the primary contact information is here:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/contact.html

--
Martin Cooper


> -Original Message-
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Indemnification & copyright
> 
> 
> To Struts Team, Developers and Users
> 
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
> 
> The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
> A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
> software to the Open Source community that contains
> intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
> software.
> 
> Thanks for any comments,
> malcolm
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 
> 
> 


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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread jsadove 


Well, it can't be Oracle, HP, or IBM, since they all seem to have no problem
using O/S products and incorporating O/S software into their own products. And I
guess it can't be any of the growing roster of multibillion dollar companies
from all industries. I guess they trust themselves.

And then there is .Net.

Best of luck with your effort.





"Malcolm Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 09/23/2002 05:04:53 PM

Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To:   "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:(bcc: Joseph Sadove/DKBDS USA/DKB)

Subject:  RE: Indemnification & copyright


I appreciate everybody$B!G(Bs comments.

This problem extends beyond Struts, but to all freeware,
opens source, etc, inside this particular organization.  The
organization is a multi-billion dollar IT firm, (I will
leave it at that).

1.  The contribution of the copyright or patent material
might be totally accidental in nature.
2.  Apache does not indemnify the software against copyright
or patent infringement.

I like the $B!F(Breceipt for cheap car stereo$B!G(B analogy.

Microsoft paid $100 Million over $B!F(Baccidental patent material
$B!G(B regarding DoubleDisk technology.  How accidental I don$B!G(Bt
know.  But this is the fear of these corporate lawyers.

- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Indemnification & copyright


To Struts Team, Developers and Users

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm


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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Malcolm Davis 

I appreciate everybody’s comments.

This problem extends beyond Struts, but to all freeware,
opens source, etc, inside this particular organization.  The
organization is a multi-billion dollar IT firm, (I will
leave it at that).

1.  The contribution of the copyright or patent material
might be totally accidental in nature.
2.  Apache does not indemnify the software against copyright
or patent infringement.

I like the ‘receipt for cheap car stereo’ analogy.

Microsoft paid $100 Million over ‘accidental patent material
’ regarding DoubleDisk technology.  How accidental I don’t
know.  But this is the fear of these corporate lawyers.

- Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Indemnification & copyright


To Struts Team, Developers and Users

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm


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Re: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread jsadove 



I have run across similar "situations". In all cases, you have a manager A) who
simply is looking for maximum CYA and doesn't know how to operate in anything
but the corporate prescribed fashion B) opposes Open Source C) Both




"Karim Saloojee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 09/23/2002 09:57:06 AM

Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To:   "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:(bcc: Joseph Sadove/DKBDS USA/DKB)

Subject:  Re: Indemnification & copyright


I also agree, the Struts coders would never be adding what amounts to
"stolen" code.

However if they did, it makes sense that Apache would be responsible not
company XYZ running struts 1.0

Why does your boss think this problem applies to OS projects only? You guys
surely have bought other "closed" software, what happens if your "closed"
software has violated some patent/copyright? What makes you so sure the
holders of the copyright wont sue your company for damages even if the
software was built by some other commercial entity and sold to you? The
situation would boil down to the same thing eventually.

Use Struts and dont worry, Apache will pay for everything. Worst case
scenario is that Apache will sell their URL to Larry Flynt and use the
proceeds to pay a couple of patent holders.

- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


> Have to agree with you there.
> I can't imagine for an instance the struts contributors would ever be
adding
> dodgy code, way I see it, its purely a hypothetical question as far as
> struts is concerned.
> You would need to be quite paranoid to let such a worry about struts put
you
> off using it. Indeed from what I gather its the proprietary stuff where
this
> becomes a problem as the source is not open to review.
> I would still be interested to know the legal position on such a issue
> however as a theoretical curiosity...
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 20:15
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> I think that's a bit of a stretch.  I have no doubt in my mind that the
guys
> producing the nightly builds have more professional integrity than to
> incorporate code of questionable origins or legality into Struts.  I mean,
> how dumb would that be?  It's open-source and doing something like that
> would ruin your career.
>
> I'd say to his employer to take a look at all the commercial applications
> now using Struts and ask him if he's not being just a wee bit paranoid
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:45 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
> some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
> employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.
>
> In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
> chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
> (ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
> guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)
>
> The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards
to
> their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with
struts.
> I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.
>
> Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
> wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached
by
> using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
> merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
> containing ASF code.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM
>
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my

Re: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Karim Saloojee 

I also agree, the Struts coders would never be adding what amounts to
"stolen" code.

However if they did, it makes sense that Apache would be responsible not
company XYZ running struts 1.0

Why does your boss think this problem applies to OS projects only? You guys
surely have bought other "closed" software, what happens if your "closed"
software has violated some patent/copyright? What makes you so sure the
holders of the copyright wont sue your company for damages even if the
software was built by some other commercial entity and sold to you? The
situation would boil down to the same thing eventually.

Use Struts and dont worry, Apache will pay for everything. Worst case
scenario is that Apache will sell their URL to Larry Flynt and use the
proceeds to pay a couple of patent holders.

- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


> Have to agree with you there.
> I can't imagine for an instance the struts contributors would ever be
adding
> dodgy code, way I see it, its purely a hypothetical question as far as
> struts is concerned.
> You would need to be quite paranoid to let such a worry about struts put
you
> off using it. Indeed from what I gather its the proprietary stuff where
this
> becomes a problem as the source is not open to review.
> I would still be interested to know the legal position on such a issue
> however as a theoretical curiosity...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 20:15
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> I think that's a bit of a stretch.  I have no doubt in my mind that the
guys
> producing the nightly builds have more professional integrity than to
> incorporate code of questionable origins or legality into Struts.  I mean,
> how dumb would that be?  It's open-source and doing something like that
> would ruin your career.
>
> I'd say to his employer to take a look at all the commercial applications
> now using Struts and ask him if he's not being just a wee bit paranoid
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:45 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
> some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
> employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.
>
> In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
> chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
> (ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
> guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)
>
> The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards
to
> their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with
struts.
> I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.
>
> Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
> wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached
by
> using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright
>
>
> There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
> merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
> containing ASF code.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM
>
> I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
> am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
> indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
> 1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
> copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
> 2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
> 3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
>
> The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
> A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
> software to the Open Source community that contains
> intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
> software.
>
> Thanks for any comments,

RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Andrew Hill 

Have to agree with you there.
I can't imagine for an instance the struts contributors would ever be adding
dodgy code, way I see it, its purely a hypothetical question as far as
struts is concerned.
You would need to be quite paranoid to let such a worry about struts put you
off using it. Indeed from what I gather its the proprietary stuff where this
becomes a problem as the source is not open to review.
I would still be interested to know the legal position on such a issue
however as a theoretical curiosity...

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 20:15
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


I think that's a bit of a stretch.  I have no doubt in my mind that the guys
producing the nightly builds have more professional integrity than to
incorporate code of questionable origins or legality into Struts.  I mean,
how dumb would that be?  It's open-source and doing something like that
would ruin your career.

I'd say to his employer to take a look at all the commercial applications
now using Struts and ask him if he's not being just a wee bit paranoid


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.

In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
(ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)

The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards to
their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with struts.
I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.

Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached by
using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
containing ASF code.

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm

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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Galbreath, Mark 

I think that's a bit of a stretch.  I have no doubt in my mind that the guys
producing the nightly builds have more professional integrity than to
incorporate code of questionable origins or legality into Struts.  I mean,
how dumb would that be?  It's open-source and doing something like that
would ruin your career.

I'd say to his employer to take a look at all the commercial applications
now using Struts and ask him if he's not being just a wee bit paranoid


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:45 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.

In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
(ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)

The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards to
their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with struts.
I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.

Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached by
using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
containing ASF code.

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm

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<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Andrew Hill 

His employer is worried that one of the struts contributers could include
some code that someone else has rights to and that as a user of struts his
employer would be then be legally liable for such an infringement.

In this event the Apache licence would not really be relevant as the dodgy
chunk of code involved wouldnt be Apaches to license in the first place.
(ie: would mean as much as a handwritten certificate of authority from the
guy down the pub who sold you a cheap car stereo)

The question in this case is what happens to folk using struts in regards to
their legal liabilty regarding any such dodgy code distributed with struts.
I dont know the answer to this one but would be rather curious to know.

Common sense would suggest that having used struts 'in good faith' we
wouldnt be liable, but since this is a legal issue any conclusion reached by
using common sense is almost certainly completely invalid...

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 19:27
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Indemnification & copyright


There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
containing ASF code.

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm

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RE: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-23 Thread Galbreath, Mark 

There is no liability issue as long as you abide by the license, which
merely requires that credit is given to Apache for redistributed software
containing ASF code.

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/license.html

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Malcolm Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 PM

I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?

The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
software to the Open Source community that contains
intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
software.

Thanks for any comments,
malcolm

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Re: Indemnification & copyright

2002-09-22 Thread Eddie Bush 

I don't understand what you mean.  I believe the ASF license is such 
that you can include things from them (you need to give credit somehow 
for what you do use), but not have to do anything special.  You wouldn't 
have to make it open-source or anything like that.

I suppose you mean your employer wants to be sure that THEY are not sued 
for a copyright/patent infringement.  I don't see how it would arise. 
 Everything is meant to be given away and built upon.  Given away by 
them and built upon by us.  We may use it however we see fit.  You 
really should give credit for what you use though.

I think probably the final word would come from a lawyer.  You could get 
a copy of the license agreement from the web and go over it with a 
lawyer.  Hopefully someone more familiar with legal matters can give you 
better advice.  I'm not sure I fully understand your circumstance :-)

Malcolm Davis wrote:

>To Struts Team, Developers and Users
>
>I am presently in a predicament on my present contract.  I
>am not allowed to use STRUTS unless my employer can be
>indemnified from copyright or patent infringement.
>1.  Is there anyway my employer can be indemnified from
>copyright or patent infringement with Struts?
>2.  Is there a company that provides this service?
>3.  Is this really an issue with Struts?
>
>The liability extends from the use of intellectual property.
>A developer knowingly or unknowingly contributes a piece of
>software to the Open Source community that contains
>intellectual property.  I then use that piece of open source
>software.
>
>Thanks for any comments,
>malcolm
>

-- 
Eddie Bush




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