date:20131117

Peter, is it possible to get 3.0 in Fedora 19 now that the issue is solved?

I've seen the change in git but I don't see an rpm, not even in
updates-testing. (Hopefully it's not just me being a bit clueless about
Fedora...).


On 1 November 2013 21:39, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm happy to push abiword 3 to Fedora 19 but at the moment with Fedora
 20 there's an issue with Write that I would like people to assist me
 in fixing first.

 Peter

 On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:
  Hi Daniel,
  Is not possible add abiword to the sugar-build modules?
 
  Gonzalo
 
  On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Yeah that's a known issue, unfortunately Fedora 19 doesn't have abiword
  introspection support. It will be solved when we upgrade to Fedora 20.
 
  On Friday, 1 November 2013, Sai Vineet wrote:
 
  I am trying to open Write in sugar-build. I cloned the repo from
  gitorious. But Write does not open.
 
  The write icons pulses for some time(~1s) and then it says that Write
  failed to start.
 
  The log says -
 
  Traceback (most recent call last):
  (4 lines of calls here)
  File some file name here, line 28 in main
  from gi.repository import Abi
  ImportError  : cannot import name Abi
 
  (I can't find how to copy from sugar environment, so I just copied what
  made sense to me)
  I think I don't have Abi word thats why I can't open it. But I can't
 find
  a way to install Abi. I can only install the old version in Ubuntu
  repositories.
 
  Thank you for helping.
 
 
 
  --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini


In Flavio's defense, I'd like to restructure this conversation.

Undoubtedly, he's put great effort in this work.

From a deployment's point of view, it's a contribution.

From Gonzalo's POV, it's a burden because Flavio hasn't taken up 
learning to master Git.
From Localizer's POV it's a burden because, in their view, it implies 
double the strings.

These are representatives up upstream.

In my humble opinion, the situation is out of balance. We cannot dismiss 
contributions
merely because people have not learnt all the tools. This also goes for 
localization team,
because really, from a friendly fork's POV, doing a simple msgmerge 
command imports

all of the necessary translations from upstream (or the other way around).
In any case, the amount of user visible strings in TamTamMini is negligible.

I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests 
to update
GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq 
and Gonzalo,

and only the first actually took action on my request.

Really, things could be simpler for downstream, especially 
Activity-wise. Sugar per
se is a different matter because luckily, we have Daniel Narvaez, but 
who knows

how long he'll put up with us.

The Sugar Network's proposed workflow is that anybody can upload a 
bundle. It is
not mandatory that everything has to be just right. I would encourage 
Flavio, who has
already offered, to mantain a fork of TamTamMini with his changes, in 
git, and either
create a new Activity Id and name for it or we can see about the new 
features in
Sugar Network/ASLO that will enable non-mantainer uploads. For the case 
where
alternative implementations of the same activity exist, by default the 
system will

offer the one from the original author.

If the activity really works better, perhaps we will even include it in 
Hexoquinasa, our

downstream of Platform Team's Deployment Platform, built for Perú.

Love for TamTam Suite really is welcome from this side of the island.

Regards,
Sebastian

El 17/11/13 12:12, Chris Leonard escribió:

On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Flavio Danesse
fdane...@activitycentral.com wrote:


On the issue of separating the application from the rest of the suite, I did
because it was the only way to understand it, correct the code and port it
to gtk3. The code of the suite is filled with errors and unused files. Now,
this application is much easier to maintain and extend. The same applies to
the translation patch, most not used by TamTamMini.


The TamTam Suite was set up to use a common set of translations on
purpose.  Some time ago, they were all completely separate and it was
a big burden on localizers to repeat the translation work multiple
times.

Free and open discussion between developers and localization
stakeholders arrived at the current configuration.  As the maintainer
of Pootle, I am not excited about seeing this collaborative agreement
undone and I will need some convincing on the need for splitting the
suite before hosting a fork of your TamTamMini in Pootle.

We need more open discussion, and less forking to move together as a community.

cjl
Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini


El 17/11/13 12:38, Sebastian Silva escribió:
I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to 
requests to update
GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq 
and Gonzalo,

and only the first actually took action on my request.


BTW, in our latest public release ([1] v129) I had to fork 18 out of 26 
included activities for

this reason.

[1] 
http://pe.sugarlabs.org/ir/Proyecto%20Piloto%20Hexoquinasa/Instalar#Descarga 

The Sugar Network's proposed workflow is that anybody can upload a 
bundle. It is
not mandatory that everything has to be just right. I would 
encourage Flavio, who has
already offered, to mantain a fork of TamTamMini with his changes, in 
git, and either
create a new Activity Id and name for it or we can see about the new 
features in
Sugar Network/ASLO that will enable non-mantainer uploads. For the 
case where
alternative implementations of the same activity exist, by default the 
system will
offer the one from the original author. 

Therefore it was decided to design this workflow.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

2013-11-17 Thread Chris Leonard

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote:
 In Flavio's defense, I'd like to restructure this conversation.

 Undoubtedly, he's put great effort in this work.

And there are mechanisms for incorporating that work for the benefit of all.

 From a deployment's point of view, it's a contribution.

I would think deployments would rather have contributions upstreamed
so they do not incur maintenance costs long term.

 From Gonzalo's POV, it's a burden because Flavio hasn't taken up learning to
 master Git.

Mastering certain elements of git are essential to contribute to a
pre-existing longstanding core element of Sugar like TamTam.

 From Localizer's POV it's a burden because, in their view, it implies double
 the strings.
 These are representatives up upstream.

Localizers are not upstream representatives, they are downstream
collaborators using a common upstream infrastructure.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

Sebastian,

I think you are not understanding the problem.

Of course, anybody can fork and upload another activity, but that is
nightmare
on the long run, to maintainers and to users.
Imagine how good for users will be have different versions of the
activities,
some running, some not, depending of different situations.

You say From Gonzalo's POV, it's a burden because Flavio hasn't taken up
learning to master Git.

That is not the problem. The problem is invest a lot of work in one activity
without even trying to communicate with the maintainer and agree in a way
to solve
the different problems.

By example: the activity need changes to run in a Magallanes,
then what is the best option? is that solution good for other activities?
need be solved in the activity or in the toolkit?
Is the best option maintain activities forked?

If you ask me, I don't know, probably talking with Flavio, can understand
better the problem/s and find a solution, but without communication,
is impossible.

Gonzalo



On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

 In Flavio's defense, I'd like to restructure this conversation.

 Undoubtedly, he's put great effort in this work.

 From a deployment's point of view, it's a contribution.

 From Gonzalo's POV, it's a burden because Flavio hasn't taken up learning
 to master Git.
 From Localizer's POV it's a burden because, in their view, it implies
 double the strings.
 These are representatives up upstream.

 In my humble opinion, the situation is out of balance. We cannot dismiss
 contributions
 merely because people have not learnt all the tools. This also goes for
 localization team,
 because really, from a friendly fork's POV, doing a simple msgmerge
 command imports
 all of the necessary translations from upstream (or the other way around).
 In any case, the amount of user visible strings in TamTamMini is
 negligible.

 I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests
 to update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq and
 Gonzalo,
 and only the first actually took action on my request.

 Really, things could be simpler for downstream, especially Activity-wise.
 Sugar per
 se is a different matter because luckily, we have Daniel Narvaez, but who
 knows
 how long he'll put up with us.

 The Sugar Network's proposed workflow is that anybody can upload a bundle.
 It is
 not mandatory that everything has to be just right. I would encourage
 Flavio, who has
 already offered, to mantain a fork of TamTamMini with his changes, in git,
 and either
 create a new Activity Id and name for it or we can see about the new
 features in
 Sugar Network/ASLO that will enable non-mantainer uploads. For the case
 where
 alternative implementations of the same activity exist, by default the
 system will
 offer the one from the original author.

 If the activity really works better, perhaps we will even include it in
 Hexoquinasa, our
 downstream of Platform Team's Deployment Platform, built for Perú.

 Love for TamTam Suite really is welcome from this side of the island.

 Regards,
 Sebastian

 El 17/11/13 12:12, Chris Leonard escribió:

 On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Flavio Danesse
 fdane...@activitycentral.com wrote:

  On the issue of separating the application from the rest of the suite, I
 did
 because it was the only way to understand it, correct the code and port
 it
 to gtk3. The code of the suite is filled with errors and unused files.
 Now,
 this application is much easier to maintain and extend. The same applies
 to
 the translation patch, most not used by TamTamMini.


 The TamTam Suite was set up to use a common set of translations on
 purpose.  Some time ago, they were all completely separate and it was
 a big burden on localizers to repeat the translation work multiple
 times.

 Free and open discussion between developers and localization
 stakeholders arrived at the current configuration.  As the maintainer
 of Pootle, I am not excited about seeing this collaborative agreement
 undone and I will need some convincing on the need for splitting the
 suite before hosting a fork of your TamTamMini in Pootle.

 We need more open discussion, and less forking to move together as a
 community.

 cjl
 Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

  El 17/11/13 12:38, Sebastian Silva escribió:

 I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests
 to update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq and
 Gonzalo,

 and only the first actually took action on my request.


I requested you clone the repositories. In your case, you only want add
translations.



 BTW, in our latest public release ([1] v129) I had to fork 18 out of 26
 included activities for
 this reason.


I hope we can solve the performance problems then you don't need use a old
Sugar version,
to avoid all these problems.

Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On 17 November 2013 18:38, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

 In Flavio's defense, I'd like to restructure this conversation.

 Undoubtedly, he's put great effort in this work.


I suspect it's a great contribution, which is exactly why I'm mad it's not
going upstream...


 In my humble opinion, the situation is out of balance. We cannot dismiss
 contributions
 merely because people have not learnt all the tools. This also goes for
 localization team,


I don't think we are dismissing contributions at all  here. The way I read
the conversation is

Gonzalo: As we already discussed, this is not a good way to submit
contributions. You should do this and that.
Flavio: Yes, I know this is not a good way, that's why I didn't post
patches. On the other hand, why I don't just take  maintenance of the
module over?

I suspect Gonzalo didn't take this too badly because he didn't write
TamTam. But in most free software project this behaviour would have been
seen as insulting to the maintainer.

Gonzalo offered to work with Flavio to get his work submitted properly. I
hope Flavio takes that offer, showing it was all just a misunderstanding.
Happy to help out with that btw if needed, I know Gonzalo is busy

I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests to
 update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq and
 Gonzalo,
 and only the first actually took action on my request.


I think the two issues are very different, in this case the maintainer was
super responsive. Are you willing to do the work if you are given access to
the repositories?
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On 17 November 2013 18:58, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:



 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Sebastian Silva 
 sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote:

  El 17/11/13 12:38, Sebastian Silva escribió:

 I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests
 to update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq
 and Gonzalo,

 and only the first actually took action on my request.


 I requested you clone the repositories. In your case, you only want add
 translations.


Why fork if Sebastian is willing to do it in the official repositories? It
seems like it won't give you any extra work and possiblity be useful to
other people.

I probably want gtk2 to disappear even more than you. Despite that I think
we should take people contributions on old branches, if they are willing to
do the work.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2013 18:58, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:



 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Sebastian Silva 
 sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote:

  El 17/11/13 12:38, Sebastian Silva escribió:

 I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests
 to update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq
 and Gonzalo,

 and only the first actually took action on my request.


 I requested you clone the repositories. In your case, you only want add
 translations.


 Why fork if Sebastian is willing to do it in the official repositories? It
 seems like it won't give you any extra work and possiblity be useful to
 other people.

 I probably want gtk2 to disappear even more than you. Despite that I think
 we should take people contributions on old branches, if they are willing to
 do the work.


Like I see it, is not a fork.
Sebastian said he don't want make changes in the activities,
only want add translation files, and package them in a xo file.

Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
 Peter, is it possible to get 3.0 in Fedora 19 now that the issue is solved?

 I've seen the change in git but I don't see an rpm, not even in
 updates-testing. (Hopefully it's not just me being a bit clueless about
 Fedora...).

The build failed [1] due to what looks like an introspection issue but
I've not had time to investigate further.

Peter

[1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=6144281

 On 1 November 2013 21:39, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm happy to push abiword 3 to Fedora 19 but at the moment with Fedora
 20 there's an issue with Write that I would like people to assist me
 in fixing first.

 Peter

 On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:
  Hi Daniel,
  Is not possible add abiword to the sugar-build modules?
 
  Gonzalo
 
  On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  Yeah that's a known issue, unfortunately Fedora 19 doesn't have abiword
  introspection support. It will be solved when we upgrade to Fedora 20.
 
  On Friday, 1 November 2013, Sai Vineet wrote:
 
  I am trying to open Write in sugar-build. I cloned the repo from
  gitorious. But Write does not open.
 
  The write icons pulses for some time(~1s) and then it says that Write
  failed to start.
 
  The log says -
 
  Traceback (most recent call last):
  (4 lines of calls here)
  File some file name here, line 28 in main
  from gi.repository import Abi
  ImportError  : cannot import name Abi
 
  (I can't find how to copy from sugar environment, so I just copied
  what
  made sense to me)
  I think I don't have Abi word thats why I can't open it. But I can't
  find
  a way to install Abi. I can only install the old version in Ubuntu
  repositories.
 
  Thank you for helping.
 
 
 
  --
  Daniel Narvaez
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On 17 November 2013 19:20, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:


 Like I see it, is not a fork.
 Sebastian said he don't want make changes in the activities,
 only want add translation files, and package them in a xo file.


If someone needs to package gtk2 activities, how they will know they should
be using Sebastian repository instead of the official one? That's why I
call it a fork.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On 17 November 2013 19:21, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Peter, is it possible to get 3.0 in Fedora 19 now that the issue is
 solved?
 
  I've seen the change in git but I don't see an rpm, not even in
  updates-testing. (Hopefully it's not just me being a bit clueless about
  Fedora...).

 The build failed [1] due to what looks like an introspection issue but
 I've not had time to investigate further.


Looks like libgsf introspection has been enabled only in F20

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/libgsf.git/commit/?h=f20id=8c2f2ce7975482618ea8c3ec6a3fb0ec43137cb4

Any chance of a backport? :)

Otherwise I suppose it might make sense to move sugar-build to F20 at this
point, I suppose it's not horribly unstable these days...
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2013 19:21, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Peter, is it possible to get 3.0 in Fedora 19 now that the issue is
  solved?
 
  I've seen the change in git but I don't see an rpm, not even in
  updates-testing. (Hopefully it's not just me being a bit clueless about
  Fedora...).

 The build failed [1] due to what looks like an introspection issue but
 I've not had time to investigate further.


 Looks like libgsf introspection has been enabled only in F20

 http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/libgsf.git/commit/?h=f20id=8c2f2ce7975482618ea8c3ec6a3fb0ec43137cb4

 Any chance of a backport? :)

Possibly, if there's no soname bumps or changes between .26 and .28

 Otherwise I suppose it might make sense to move sugar-build to F20 at this
 point, I suppose it's not horribly unstable these days...

I hasn't been horribly unstable since around Alpha TBH

Peter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On 17 November 2013 19:33, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Otherwise I suppose it might make sense to move sugar-build to F20 at this
 point, I suppose it's not horribly unstable these days...


Well maybe not a great idea given Google Code-In is starting soon.
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[Sugar-devel] When to switch sugar-build to Fedora 20

Hello,

does anyone have strong opinions on when we should switch sugar-build to
use Fedora 20?

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Schedule

I was sort of considering to do it now, to make Write work. It should be
pretty stable, especially since we don't use kernel, X server etc.

As far as I know no one is working on F19 based stuff (?). Mostly worried
about Google Code-In. I suppose better to do it before or after it.

-- 
Daniel Narvaez
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini


El 17/11/13 13:12, Daniel Narvaez escribió:


I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to
requests to update
GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except
Manuq and Gonzalo,
and only the first actually took action on my request.


I think the two issues are very different, in this case the maintainer 
was super responsive. Are you willing to do the work if you are given 
access to the repositories?


Absolutely. My issue was not just access to the repositories but the 
ability to put these in ASLO.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini


El 17/11/13 13:20, Gonzalo Odiard escribió:

Sebastian said he don't want make changes in the activities,
only want add translation files, and package them in a xo file.



Actually I was very specific in stating what I needed was to have 
updated .xo bundles in ASLO.


Sebastian
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Re: [Sugar-devel] When to switch sugar-build to Fedora 20

2013-11-17 Thread Daniel Francis

On Sunday, November 17, 2013 07:45:08 PM Daniel Narvaez wrote:
 As far as I know no one is working on F19 based stuff (?). Mostly worried
 about Google Code-In. I suppose better to do it before or after it.

This might cause regressions. I think it will be better to do it after the 
contest so the environment would not crash during tasks.
Maybe you can start a branch to work on F20 and see how stable is it.

Cheers,
Daniel.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] When to switch sugar-build to Fedora 20

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Sunday, November 17, 2013 07:45:08 PM Daniel Narvaez wrote:
 As far as I know no one is working on F19 based stuff (?). Mostly worried
 about Google Code-In. I suppose better to do it before or after it.

 This might cause regressions. I think it will be better to do it after the
 contest so the environment would not crash during tasks.
 Maybe you can start a branch to work on F20 and see how stable is it.

It has been pretty stable for both Sugar and in general, we're post
beta now so things are starting to really settle down. You could try
the SoaS beta ;-)

Peter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 November 2013 19:33, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Otherwise I suppose it might make sense to move sugar-build to F20 at this
 point, I suppose it's not horribly unstable these days...


 Well maybe not a great idea given Google Code-In is starting soon.

It's building now.

Peter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TamTamMini

On 17 November 2013 20:02, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

  El 17/11/13 13:12, Daniel Narvaez escribió:


  I spent the last month trying to get mantainers to respond to requests
 to update
 GTK2 branches with translations, with barely any response except Manuq
 and Gonzalo,
 and only the first actually took action on my request.


  I think the two issues are very different, in this case the maintainer
 was super responsive. Are you willing to do the work if you are given
 access to the repositories?


 Absolutely. My issue was not just access to the repositories but the
 ability to put these in ASLO.


I don't know how ASLO works... Is it possible to have multiple
maintainers for each activity?
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[Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

Hi All,

Just a reminder that SoaS v10 beta [1] is out for both x86 and ARM and
testing and feedback would be absolutely fabulous. I believe it's one
of our strongest and best releases to date.

Just a few minor issues to report with 0.100 on Fedora 20.

Firstly the in About Computer it's still reporting 0.99 as the version.

Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that.

Peter

[1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2013-November/003184.html
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

2013-11-17 Thread Jerry Vonau

Hi Peter,

On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 19:33 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 Just a reminder that SoaS v10 beta [1] is out for both x86 and ARM and
 testing and feedback would be absolutely fabulous. I believe it's one
 of our strongest and best releases to date.
 
 Just a few minor issues to report with 0.100 on Fedora 20.
 
 Firstly the in About Computer it's still reporting 0.99 as the version.
 

This is a re-occurring issue: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4258

 Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
 and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
 is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
 the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that.
 

I believe the view-ability of those are settable in gconf, something for
the spin's kickstart file to alter.

Jerry 

 Peter
 
 [1] 
 https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2013-November/003184.html
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:
 Hi Peter,

 On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 19:33 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
 Hi All,

 Just a reminder that SoaS v10 beta [1] is out for both x86 and ARM and
 testing and feedback would be absolutely fabulous. I believe it's one
 of our strongest and best releases to date.

 Just a few minor issues to report with 0.100 on Fedora 20.

 Firstly the in About Computer it's still reporting 0.99 as the version.


 This is a re-occurring issue: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4258

 Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
 and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
 is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
 the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that.


 I believe the view-ability of those are settable in gconf, something for
 the spin's kickstart file to alter.

sugar-runner isn't used in the spin, it's used in the General
distribution for those that want to run sugar within another desktop
environment whether as an enduser or developer so a kickstart here is
completely irrelevant and doesn't even come into play

Peter
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[Sugar-devel] Jukebox, reorder capability to playlist

2013-11-17 Thread Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez

Hi everyone!

I am thinking in add this feature to Jukebox [1], in the next days for GCI
2013, but I need some tips about how implementing it (design).
Some time ago I did some similar for Chart [2], with two simple arrow
buttons [3] that work with the selected item.
But in Jukebox, when you change the selection, it plays the selected item,
and then this method won't work because you have to change the current
playing track to reorder the list.

So, what can I do?
Use double-click to play the track and implement that feature like in
Chart, or do something like drag and drop (I think it isn't a good idea)?
I want you opinions :)

[1] http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4484
[2] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4534
[3] http://people.sugarlabs.org/aguz/reorder-chart.png

Greetings,
aguz
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

On 17 November 2013 20:33, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 Just a reminder that SoaS v10 beta [1] is out for both x86 and ARM and
 testing and feedback would be absolutely fabulous. I believe it's one
 of our strongest and best releases to date.


Awesome!


 Just a few minor issues to report with 0.100 on Fedora 20.

 Firstly the in About Computer it's still reporting 0.99 as the version.


Yeah :/ We have this fixed in git already. Gonzalo is going to take care of
stable 0.100.x releases. I'm ccing him, perhaps he can explain his plans.


 Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
 and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
 is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
 the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that


I made a patches to hide those. I submitted the sugar part for review
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

On 17 November 2013 21:52, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 I made a patches to hide those. I submitted the sugar part for review


Argh, sent accidentally...

I submitted the sugar part for review

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/125

I will push the (trivial) sugar-runner part when this is in.

-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Write fails to launch

On 17 November 2013 20:25, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On 17 November 2013 19:33, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Otherwise I suppose it might make sense to move sugar-build to F20 at
 this
  point, I suppose it's not horribly unstable these days...
 
 
  Well maybe not a great idea given Google Code-In is starting soon.

 It's building now.


Manually installed the rpms and they seem to work! I suppose these are
going into updates-testing now?
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [UKids] ProtoSnap with Arduino plugin

2013-11-17 Thread James Cameron

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 06:52:26AM -0800, Alan Aguiar wrote:
I was seeing this wiki entry: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/
ProtoSnap_Contributors_Guide

I have contributed there.

And see that it uses Arduino plugin. I'm mantaining this plugin for
TurtleBlocks (AKA TurtleArt) and the version showed have a little
bugs (for example, the read analog and digital blocks not returns
the read value).

Were these tickets in Sugar Labs bug tracker? Or are you tracking
changes using git only? (Just curious, not criticising.)

With a friend, we update the PyFirmate in the plugin to latest 0.9.5.
Can you check on this GIT:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino

git://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino/mainline.git

Thanks, reviewed. I see the changes.

The repository name arduino seems too short. Perhaps this
repository should be named turtleblocks-arduino?

The boards.py file added in db6e133 does not contain the Arduino Pro
Mini used by the ProtoSnap. Is that important?

Ian Daniher's repository is a fork of your repository from 2013-06-18,
hash ec0719f. Ian's change in de87b83 looks cleaner than your change
in 9655ec5 but both achieve a similar effect. You may wish to take
Ian's change instead.

About installation: the process described is correct but have their
problems, for example: git is not installed by default on XO. And in
some places like Uruguay, you don't have root access to install
anything.

Yes.

The lack of git can be worked around using a ZIP download from github.

https://github.com/itdaniher/turtleblocks-arduino/archive/de87b830207701eccc2503ff7c5ae4a931a73186.zip

But still, can't install ino or make without root. So this method is
unavailable to Uruguay post-deployment.

Other option is use the option Load plugin of TurtleBlocks that
install automatically the plugin selected (only you need download a
.tar.gz into the Sugar Journal and press Load Plugin and it was
installed).

No, that is insufficient, you still need to load the firmware into the
Arduino.

But that are a bit complicated... To solve that, we package the
Arduino plugin (and others like Lego NxT, Lego WeDo, etc)
with TurtleBlocks in a new activity called TurtleBots:
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4434

I'm not have a board to test, someone can test it???

I've downloaded turtlebots-22.xo but there is no firmata firmware in
it, so this does not achieve any of the more fundamental and important
steps in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ProtoSnap_Contributors_Guide

I suggest these steps can be done by pre-building the StandardFirmata
sketch for various Arduino, and packaging both the binary output of
these builds _and_ an activity local copy of avrdude for programming
it into the Arduino board.

.uy deployment may also add packages ino, git and make in next
season's build.

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

2013-11-17 Thread Jerry Vonau

On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 20:28 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:
  Hi Peter,
 
  On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 19:33 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
  Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
  and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
  is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
  the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that.
 
 
  I believe the view-ability of those are settable in gconf, something for
  the spin's kickstart file to alter.
 
 sugar-runner isn't used in the spin, it's used in the General
 distribution for those that want to run sugar within another desktop
 environment whether as an enduser or developer so a kickstart here is
 completely irrelevant and doesn't even come into play
 

Forgive me, I thought from the subject that Soas is a livecd based image
that can be installed build with livecd-creator, using what is more or
less the same backend that olpc-os-builder uses. The builds are driven
via kickstart files, with some commands structures shared between the
two images [1][2] in respect to gconftool-2. While show_logout and
show_restart keys were configurable before the latest patch[3] extends
that to shutdown now. While you say those are completely unrelated how
can that be when the new default in the schema is true, just wondering
how sugar-runner will deal with the new default going forward, really
didn't change the behaviour just made it optional. My concern is maybe
that default needs to be false for sugar-runner leaving others having to
account for the change, that is all. It doesn't really matter to me
either way as long as the key becomes set should we need to set it in
the future.

Jerry

 Peter

1.https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/spin-kickstarts.git/tree/fedora-livecd-soas.ks?h=f20
2.http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/sugar/kspost.50.gconf.inc
3.https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/125.diff



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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

On 17 November 2013 23:13, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:

 On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 20:28 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
  On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote:
   Hi Peter,
  
   On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 19:33 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
   Secondly, a minor annoyance with sugar-runner is that the shutdown
   and reboot options in the menu should likely be disabled when sugar
   is being run in sugar-runner (leaving just logout) because it takes
   the main desktop with it without any noticed that it might do that.
  
  
   I believe the view-ability of those are settable in gconf, something
 for
   the spin's kickstart file to alter.
 
  sugar-runner isn't used in the spin, it's used in the General
  distribution for those that want to run sugar within another desktop
  environment whether as an enduser or developer so a kickstart here is
  completely irrelevant and doesn't even come into play
 

 Forgive me, I thought from the subject that Soas is a livecd based image
 that can be installed build with livecd-creator, using what is more or
 less the same backend that olpc-os-builder uses. The builds are driven
 via kickstart files, with some commands structures shared between the
 two images [1][2] in respect to gconftool-2. While show_logout and
 show_restart keys were configurable before the latest patch[3] extends
 that to shutdown now. While you say those are completely unrelated how
 can that be when the new default in the schema is true, just wondering
 how sugar-runner will deal with the new default going forward, really
 didn't change the behaviour just made it optional. My concern is maybe
 that default needs to be false for sugar-runner leaving others having to
 account for the change, that is all. It doesn't really matter to me
 either way as long as the key becomes set should we need to set it in
 the future.



Hi,

I'm not sure to understand your concern. We default to true, so keep the
same behavior. sugar-runner will set the environment variables to no
disabling the items only for sugar-runner and not when running from gdm.

Can you explain what's the issue exactly?
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

2013-11-17 Thread Jerry Vonau

On Sun, 2013-11-17 at 23:21 +0100, Daniel Narvaez wrote:


 Hi,
 
 I'm not sure to understand your concern. We default to true, so keep
 the same behavior. sugar-runner will set the environment variables to
 no disabling the items only for sugar-runner and not when running
 from gdm.
 
 Can you explain what's the issue exactly? 
 

None at all now that I know sugar-runner is responsible for overriding
the defaults that might appear in the schema, and not relying on gconf
keys to be present in the user environment.

Jerry

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox, reorder capability to playlist

2013-11-17 Thread Daniel Francis

On Sunday, November 17, 2013 06:34:49 PM Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez wrote:
 So, what can I do?
 Use double-click to play the track and implement that feature like in
 Chart, or do something like drag and drop (I think it isn't a good idea)?
 I want you opinions :)

Sugar was one of the first interfaces with no double-click. Specially now, 
running it on touch devices, forget the idea of double-click.
Drag and drop is what most music players do for this case.
If Drag and Drop doesn't look nice with TreeViews on Sugar, it could be a bug 
in sugar-artwork and we are in the right moment to make a design proposal :)

Regards,
Daniel.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox, reorder capability to playlist

2013-11-17 Thread Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez

Yes, that's true...It will look strange but is better than double-click.

Thank you Daniel,
aguz


2013/11/17 Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org

 On Sunday, November 17, 2013 06:34:49 PM Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez wrote:
  So, what can I do?
  Use double-click to play the track and implement that feature like in
  Chart, or do something like drag and drop (I think it isn't a good idea)?
  I want you opinions :)

 Sugar was one of the first interfaces with no double-click. Specially now,
 running it on touch devices, forget the idea of double-click.
 Drag and drop is what most music players do for this case.
 If Drag and Drop doesn't look nice with TreeViews on Sugar, it could be a
 bug
 in sugar-artwork and we are in the right moment to make a design proposal
 :)

 Regards,
 Daniel.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [UKids] ProtoSnap with Arduino plugin

2013-11-17 Thread Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn

Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:49:41 +1100
From: qu...@laptop.org
To: alan...@gmail.com
CC: unleashk...@googlegroups.com; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [UKids] ProtoSnap with Arduino plugin

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 06:52:26AM -0800, Alan Aguiar wrote:
I was seeing this wiki entry: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/
ProtoSnap_Contributors_Guide

I have contributed there.

Were these tickets in Sugar Labs bug tracker? Or are you tracking
changes using git only? (Just curious, not criticising.)
There are not tickets for that. I only use git for track the changes.

With a friend, we update the PyFirmate in the plugin to latest 0.9.5.
Can you check on this GIT:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino

git://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino/mainline.git

Thanks, reviewed. I see the changes.

The repository name arduino seems too short. Perhaps this
repository should be named turtleblocks-arduino?
Maybe: arduino_plugin ?

The boards.py file added in db6e133 does not contain the Arduino Pro
Mini used by the ProtoSnap. Is that important?
I not sure, I must ask to my friend. But seems that the boards.py are notused
in the PyFirmata.
Ian Daniher's repository is a fork of your repository from 2013-06-18,
hash ec0719f. Ian's change in de87b83 looks cleaner than your change
in 9655ec5 but both achieve a similar effect. You may wish to take
Ian's change instead.
It's the same fix.. but I like the Ian patch. It's more clean.
About installation: the process described is correct but have their
problems, for example: git is not installed by default on XO. And in
some places like Uruguay, you don't have root access to install
anything.

Yes.

The lack of git can be worked around using a ZIP download from github.

https://github.com/itdaniher/turtleblocks-arduino/archive/de87b830207701eccc2503ff7c5ae4a931a73186.zip

But still, can't install ino or make without root. So this method is
unavailable to Uruguay post-deployment.

No, that is insufficient, you still need to load the firmware into the
Arduino.
Yes, but have Arduino plugin installed do all process a bit easy.
But that are a bit complicated... To solve that, we package the
Arduino plugin (and others like Lego NxT, Lego WeDo, etc)
with TurtleBlocks in a new activity called TurtleBots:
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4434

I'm not have a board to test, someone can test it???

.uy deployment may also add packages ino, git and make in next
season's build.
Maybe we need do an activity for that.

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [UKids] ProtoSnap with Arduino plugin

2013-11-17 Thread James Cameron

Alan Aguiar wrote:
 James Cameron wrote:
  Alan Aguiar wrote:
   I was seeing this wiki entry: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/
   ProtoSnap_Contributors_Guide
 
  I have contributed there.
 
   And see that it uses Arduino plugin. I'm mantaining this plugin
   for TurtleBlocks (AKA TurtleArt) and the version showed have a
   little bugs (for example, the read analog and digital blocks not
   returns the read value).
 
  Were these tickets in Sugar Labs bug tracker? Or are you tracking
  changes using git only? (Just curious, not criticising.)
 
 There are not tickets for that. I only use git for track the
 changes.

Thanks.

   With a friend, we update the PyFirmate in the plugin to latest
   0.9.5.  Can you check on this GIT:
   http://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino
 
  git://git.sugarlabs.org/arduino/mainline.git
 
  Thanks, reviewed. I see the changes.
 
  The repository name arduino seems too short. Perhaps this
  repository should be named turtleblocks-arduino?
 
 Maybe: arduino_plugin ?

Is it a plugin for Arduino, or a plugin for TurtleBlocks?  I think it
is a plugin for TurtleBlocks to use an Arduino.  So perhaps
turtleblocks-plugin-arduino or merge it with the turtleart repository.

  The boards.py file added in db6e133 does not contain the Arduino
  Pro Mini used by the ProtoSnap. Is that important?
 
 I not sure, I must ask to my friend. But seems that the boards.py
 are not used in the PyFirmata.

Good, thanks.

  Ian Daniher's repository is a fork of your repository from
  2013-06-18, hash ec0719f. Ian's change in de87b83 looks cleaner
  than your change in 9655ec5 but both achieve a similar effect. You
  may wish to take Ian's change instead.
 
 It's the same fix.. but I like the Ian patch. It's more clean.
 
   About installation: the process described is correct but have
   their problems, for example: git is not installed by default on
   XO. And in some places like Uruguay, you don't have root access
   to install anything.
 
  Yes.
 
  The lack of git can be worked around using a ZIP download from
  github.
 
  https://github.com/itdaniher/turtleblocks-arduino/archive/
  de87b830207701eccc2503ff7c5ae4a931a73186.zip
 
  But still, can't install ino or make without root. So this method
  is unavailable to Uruguay post-deployment.
 
   Other option is use the option Load plugin of TurtleBlocks
   that install automatically the plugin selected (only you need
   download a .tar.gz into the Sugar Journal and press Load Plugin
   and it was installed).
 
  No, that is insufficient, you still need to load the firmware into
  the Arduino.
 
 Yes, but have Arduino plugin installed do all process a bit easy.

Yes, it is a bit easier, and now that we've heard from Mike Lee that
there are many ProtoSnap boards with firmware _already loaded_ perhaps
the Wiki page should be trimmed to separate the two steps.  It is a
waste of time to program them if they are already programmed.

   But that are a bit complicated... To solve that, we package the
   Arduino plugin (and others like Lego NxT, Lego WeDo, etc)
   with TurtleBlocks in a new activity called TurtleBots:
   http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4434
  
   I'm not have a board to test, someone can test it???
 
  I've downloaded turtlebots-22.xo but there is no firmata firmware
  in it, so this does not achieve any of the more fundamental and
  important steps in
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ProtoSnap_Contributors_Guide
 
  I suggest these steps can be done by pre-building the
  StandardFirmata sketch for various Arduino, and packaging both the
  binary output of these builds _and_ an activity local copy of
  avrdude for programming it into the Arduino board.
 
  .uy deployment may also add packages ino, git and make in next
  season's build.
 
 Maybe we need do an activity for that.

On the other hand, the demand is low.  A teacher could program the
firmware.  It only needs to be done once.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Jukebox, reorder capability to playlist

+1

In theory, reorder in the treeview could be enabled and drag  drop should
work.

Gonzalo


On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez a...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

 Yes, that's true...It will look strange but is better than double-click.

 Thank you Daniel,
 aguz


 2013/11/17 Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org

 On Sunday, November 17, 2013 06:34:49 PM Agustin Zubiaga Sanchez wrote:
  So, what can I do?
  Use double-click to play the track and implement that feature like in
  Chart, or do something like drag and drop (I think it isn't a good
 idea)?
  I want you opinions :)

 Sugar was one of the first interfaces with no double-click. Specially now,
 running it on touch devices, forget the idea of double-click.
 Drag and drop is what most music players do for this case.
 If Drag and Drop doesn't look nice with TreeViews on Sugar, it could be a
 bug
 in sugar-artwork and we are in the right moment to make a design proposal
 :)

 Regards,
 Daniel.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 November 2013 20:33, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 Just a reminder that SoaS v10 beta [1] is out for both x86 and ARM and
 testing and feedback would be absolutely fabulous. I believe it's one
 of our strongest and best releases to date.


 Awesome!


 Just a few minor issues to report with 0.100 on Fedora 20.

 Firstly the in About Computer it's still reporting 0.99 as the version.


 Yeah :/ We have this fixed in git already. Gonzalo is going to take care
 of stable 0.100.x releases. I'm ccing him, perhaps he can explain his plans.



We fixed thiss in master, and I pushed the change to the sucrose-0.100
branch too.
I will take care of this branch for australia deployment, just pushing all
the fixes
we think are important.

Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS v10 testing and a few minor issues with 0.100