Re: Time Zones
Just to complete my previous reply, Harriet: I checked that UK is not the only EU country to be on UTC. Ireland is too indeed, and as a matter of fact Portugal and Iceland (not member of the EU, yet) also use UTC. My remark about UK sole country attached to their good old GMT was thus out of place: sorry, UK! ;-) And on the other side, I confirm that Greece is at UTC+2, but so is Finland. Many of the former Eastern European countries are now candidates to join the EU, wich will bring in a slew of new UTC+2 countries. Best regards, Thierry harriet wrote: Dear Dialists Many thanks for the vast amounts of information about time zones. That will keep me quiet for a bit! Harriet James
Re: Time Zones
Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It seems to me that Spain and France should be the same too, but for their close ties with the rest of the European mainland. They are both mostly within 7.5° of the Greenwich meridian. Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due to different timezones, but also different office hours. England worked 9-17.30 local with lunch from 12.30 - 13.30, Finland worked 7.30-16.00 local with lunch from 11.30 to 12.30, France and Germany something else again. Germany was extra complicated because the factory staff worked different hours to the operations staff, so there were two sets of times to remember. I would happily put the whole of the EU on a single time zone, but only if there are also common start, finish and break times! Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Now, fortunately, we have asynchronous communications (e-mail, to be less pedantic): it's maybe not panacea, but it solves at least the TZ, working hours and breaks problems...
Re: Time Zones
fer j. de vries wrote: Time Zone Lovers, In Europe also Portugal has the same time zone as the British have. As is showed on the Web site, recommended in the mail by Thierry van Steenberghe, this is called WET and in summer it is WEST For France, Germany, The Netherlands and many more countries this Web site mention as name CET and CEST, that is GMT + 1 and GMT + 2 and not WET and WEST as Thierry wrote. OOps! Sorry! Thanks for correcting, Fer! So we also have a name confusion. In our language ( Dutch ) we speak about MET and MEZT, that means Middel Europese Tijd and Middel Europese Zomer Tijd. Fer. Fer J. de Vries [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: Thierry van Steenberghe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: harriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: sundial mailing list sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Time Zones Dear Harriet, In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like to have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html You are right to write Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? with quotes around the word 'correct'... Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is 1 (or 2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice when travelling thorough the continent! However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in advance. So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). (I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.) And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations of interest. As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case there is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates of ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!). Thierry 50°50'N, 4°20'E -- __ Thierry van Steenberghe Bruxelles / Belgium mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ harriet wrote: [...]
Re: Time Zones
Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W --
earthlink users
Earthlink, If there are any Earthlink.net user than can send to this mail list ok, please post a message. I am trying to troubleshoot a problem that many of Earthlink user are having on this list. Thanks ++ron
Re: Time Zones
...replying to Harriet replying to A.Brown: I'm not leery of change and in fact I like to push the use of technology, I just don't like doing it in bits and pieces. I think all of the folks fooling around with the time count are missing the opportunity and narrowly focused. Seems to me, probably because I'm biased toward 'dialism', that we can get rid of time zones, area codes, zip codes, addresses, telephone numbers, etc. by just using GPS+ longitude and latitude. Looking at all of those benefits I think I could also get rid of my day planner and palm pilot. Is our list is long and representative enough so that we could start a movement? Steve I At 11:58 PM 3/28/2001 +0100, A.Brown wrote: Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical commercial exploitation? see http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php
Re: Time Zones
Even easier, Fernando: Invent a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the Sun quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15? 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6 W 19? 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6 W --
Re: Time Zones
Dave Bell wrote: Even easier, Fernando: Invent a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the Sun quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful idea. - fernando Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W -- -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W --
Re: Time Zones
Wouldn't all shadows look like noon in the tropics, and just be puddles at one's feet? Seriously, a sperical shell doesn't work, as there is no gravity inside, and it would be difficult to keep your feet on the ground! A cylindrical shell, with a glowing central core (presumably fusion-powered), may be slowly spun on its axis, giving full-time zenithal sunshine. Moving shadow planes have been suggested as a means of providing at least twilight conditions, without the need to extinguish the fusion core. These could orbit near the core, in near-weightless conditions. There are exciting recreational possibilities, as well, for low-G mountain climbing at the endwalls, and free flight in the space above the living surface... Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Dave Bell wrote: Even easier, Fernando: Invent a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the Sun quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful idea. - fernando Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15? 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6 W 19? 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6 W -- -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15? 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6 W 19? 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6 W --
Re: Time Zones
Dave Bell wrote: Wouldn't all shadows look like noon in the tropics, and just be puddles at one's feet? Seriously, a sperical shell doesn't work, as there is no gravity inside, and it would be difficult to keep your feet on the ground! Hey, what's the matter with you? We are creating this so we can redefine Newton's laws. We can say that a source of light in the core of a sphere will generate a certain attraction, so on and so forth. Or else we can make the sphere to be magnetic and attract our feet, magnetic too, with opposed pole ;-) - fernando A cylindrical shell, with a glowing central core (presumably fusion-powered), may be slowly spun on its axis, giving full-time zenithal sunshine. Moving shadow planes have been suggested as a means of providing at least twilight conditions, without the need to extinguish the fusion core. These could orbit near the core, in near-weightless conditions. There are exciting recreational possibilities, as well, for low-G mountain climbing at the endwalls, and free flight in the space above the living surface... Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Dave Bell wrote: Even easier, Fernando: Invent a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the Sun quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful idea. - fernando Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: Steve Lelievre wrote: Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W -- -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W -- -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9 S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6 W 19º 37' 57.0 S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6 W --
Reclining/Declining
Robert, I think I've read all the responses to your question. I would like to make you aware of an approach that I've used for many years. It involves a coordinate transformation from horizon coordinates ( I use +X for South, +Y for East and +Z toward the Zenith) to dial coordinates ( +X is the path of steepest descent). Once the transformation equations are established they are used to transform the style and Sun vectors from horizon to dial coordinates. The transformed style vector gives the style height and the substyle distance directly. The hour-line angle is the cross product of the cross product of the Sun and style vectors in dial coordinates, and the normal to the dial which defines the plane of the dial. Details can be found in my article in Vol. 5 No. 3 of "The Compendium - Journal of the the North American Sundial Society". Please let me know if I can provide further information. However, I will be in China for the next three weeks. Harold Brandmaier
