Re: DST Misconceptions
In China there are 1.2bn people spread over 60 degrees of longitude all living by the same clock time. Compared with their fellows in the easternmost 15 degrees, the others are effectively living with single, double and quadruple summer time. This is technically true, but in practice, not an ideal test. First of all, the vast majority of people in China live in a longitude band of less than 30 degrees, running from Kunming in the west to Harbin in the East. Time is standardized around Beijing, which is close to the center of that range. I lived in Kunming for two years and I can't say that it was a problem living on Beijing time. However, when I traveled further west, to the frontier province of Xinjiang, Beijing time was noticeably out of sync with my expectations of when the sun should be shining. In Xinjiang, Beijing time is used for national schedules, such as train timetables and government office hours. For everything else, people use local time, which is an hour earlier than Beijing time. People in Xinjiang are in the habit of ignoring many government dictates so keeping their own time is not a big challenge. The other major western province in China is Tibet. I haven't been to Tibet but I have no trouble imagining that, like Xinjiang, people ignore a lot of what the government mandates. Neither province is ethnically or historically part of the Chinese empire and traditions have more authority than law. Even in Kunming, a much more culturally Chinese area, people liked to quote the time-honored maxim that the mountains are tall and the emperor is far away. Standardized time doesn't count for much when habits are involved. Much of China is still rural. It will be a long time before timepieces rule. John --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear John, I may have stated a fact about China being one very large time zone. Day to day reality is obviously different. Thanks for that, Doug On Apr 20, 2010, at 14:46, John Goodman wrote: In China there are 1.2bn people spread over 60 degrees of longitude all living by the same clock time. Compared with their fellows in the easternmost 15 degrees, the others are effectively living with single, double and quadruple summer time. This is technically true, but in practice, not an ideal test. First of all, the vast majority of people in China live in a longitude band of less than 30 degrees, running from Kunming in the west to Harbin in the East. Time is standardized around Beijing, which is close to the center of that range. I lived in Kunming for two years and I can't say that it was a problem living on Beijing time. However, when I traveled further west, to the frontier province of Xinjiang, Beijing time was noticeably out of sync with my expectations of when the sun should be shining. In Xinjiang, Beijing time is used for national schedules, such as train timetables and government office hours. For everything else, people use local time, which is an hour earlier than Beijing time. People in Xinjiang are in the habit of ignoring many government dictates so keeping their own time is not a big challenge. The other major western province in China is Tibet. I haven't been to Tibet but I have no trouble imagining that, like Xinjiang, people ignore a lot of what the government mandates. Neither province is ethnically or historically part of the Chinese empire and traditions have more authority than law. Even in Kunming, a much more culturally Chinese area, people liked to quote the time-honored maxim that the mountains are tall and the emperor is far away. Standardized time doesn't count for much when habits are involved. Much of China is still rural. It will be a long time before timepieces rule. John --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Even in Kunming, a much more culturally Chinese area, people liked to quote the time-honored maxim that the mountains are tall and the emperor is far away. I had to think of the line from Fiddler: Is there a proper blessing for the Czar? Yes, 'May God bless and keep the Czar --- far away from here!' --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear John, Many thanks for your illuminating comments. Alas I made a typing error... Compared with their fellows in the easternmost 15 degrees, the others are effectively living with single, double and quadruple summer time. I meant triple rather than quadruple of course. This is technically true, but in practice, not an ideal test. Well, we do have the advantage of a large sample size! Time is standardized around Beijing... Beijing is about 116 deg. East and 116 is close to 8x15 suggesting Beijing is UTC+8 which I believe it is. Do they have Summer Time in China? I believe not but may be wrong. I lived in Kunming for two years and I can't say that it was a problem living on Beijing time. Kunming is about 103 deg. East so you were, in effect, on single summer time relative to Beijing. ...when I travelled ... to the frontier province of Xinjiang, Beijing time was noticeably out of sync with my expectations of when the sun should be shining. Xinjiang is about 88 deg. East so you would be on double summer time relative to Beijing. Surely you don't have to go that far to notice the difference. I thought the sun rose terribly late in Exeter compared with Cambridge :-) ... Beijing time is used for national schedules, such as train timetables and government office hours. So the civil servants have to get up an hour earlier than others? For everything else, people use local time, which is an hour earlier than Beijing time. Er, do you mean *later* than Beijing time? Or do they really get up an hour earlier still? Do they actually set their watches to local time or do they set their watches to Beijing time and live by the sun? People in Xinjiang are in the habit of ignoring many government dictates so keeping their own time is not a big challenge. Hmmm. I too am a great admirer of the Chinese :-) I keep to my own time too! All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear Frank, Many thanks for your kind thoughts and comments. At the moment I will respond to one of the puzzles. You say: First, I should like a social historian to explain how this [the drift to a different centre of the effective day] has come about. For most of human history the 'effective day' has, I believe, been what the Romans called 'dies naturalis', the period between sunrise and sunset. This was centred on noon. Secondly, accepting that there has been drift, does this matter? There is no law stopping people getting up earlier if they want a more symmetric day so we may suppose they don't want it. My belief is that people like going to bed late and getting up late. Accordingly, this drift is quite natural but it is also inflationary. It won't be long before you will advocate 15(n+2) and 15(n+3). I too have been puzzled as to how our semi-nocturnal life styles have come about. We have not evolved to use the night because we have relatively poor night vision. The ancients used crude oil lamps, and in the middle ages candles will have been relatively expensive. Did the shift begin with the industrial revolution when better lighting became available with brighter oil lamps, incandescent gas mantles and then electric lighting? Now you point it out, I agree that double summer time (your 15(n+2), 15(n+3)) will become inflationary. If we extend your capacity to control the time of your Fellows' Dinners to say, a large and economically closed community, we could conduct the experiment. How long would it take for the 'time inflation' to take effect - one, two, or three generations? Unfortunately we would not be able to see the results because we can say with some certainty, that we will both be in the place where time stands still... Regards, Doug On Apr 18, 2010, at 22:25, Frank King wrote: Dear Doug, I enjoyed your message. You end: I hope that I have shed some light on the annual silly debate, and look forward to some acclaim (I hope) and probably some protests. In my experience this debate takes place twice a year but, that aside, you may have my acclaim but also my protest! I certainly agree with all your Facts especially the first: 1. Time can be defined to what we want it to be. Now let us accept this, and all the other Facts, opinions and other arguments. Let us suppose that they way you want time to be defined will indeed reduce accidents, save energy and increase wealth. Let us suppose that it would make the grass greener and encourage the better teaching of Mathematics in schools. So how do you want time to be defined? You don't put it like this but what you are advocating is that: In winter we in the UK should use a close approximation to mean solar time on the meridian 15 degrees east and, in summer, we should use 30 degrees east as the reference meridian. If this is such a good idea (and, by assumption, it *is* a good idea) will you be advocating that those who *live* around 15n degrees east should use 15(n+1) degrees east and 15(n+2) degrees east as their reference meridians in winter and summer respectively? I am also happy to go along with what you describe as your next point: ... the lack of symmetry of the 'effective day'. Let us say that on average we rise between 7 and 8am, work 9 to 5, have evening leisure and go to bed at 10 - 11pm. It is obvious that the middle of the effective day is about three in the afternoon. Two points here: First, I should like a social historian to explain how this has come about. For most of human history the 'effective day' has, I believe, been what the Romans called 'dies naturalis', the period between sunrise and sunset. This was centred on noon. Secondly, accepting that there has been drift, does this matter? There is no law stopping people getting up earlier if they want a more symmetric day so we may suppose they don't want it. My belief is that people like going to bed late and getting up late. Accordingly, this drift is quite natural but it is also inflationary. It won't be long before you will advocate 15(n+2) and 15(n+3). All your advantages could be achieved by steadily cranking the ratchet back. When I gave a series of lectures at Magdeburg University in the 1980s, I chose the first slot of the day: 7am to 9am. I have tried offering this enlightened timetable to students here and they seem unenthusiastic. BUT, they would happily come to a 7am lecture if we CALLED it 9am. So, seemingly, would you. You are slightly wrong about my rising at 5am. At this time of year my alarm clock is set to 4am, but that's because I keep it at UTC. I solved the problem about staying awake during Fellows' Dinners by being the Presiding Fellow. We start eating at 7:30pm (whatever that means) and finish about 8:30pm. I then make it clear that there is no obligation to stay for the
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear Doug, You make a host of interesting points in your follow-up... Did the shift [to our semi-nocturnal life style] begin with the industrial revolution when better lighting became available with brighter oil lamps, incandescent gas mantles and then electric lighting? These technological developments made the shift possible but artificial light is expensive. Those who could afford good artificial light shifted before those who could not. To this day, blue collar workers get up earlier than white collar workers - except for me :-) Even more intriguingly, you ponder about experimenting with 'time inflation'. I think China may be just the test-bed we need. In China there are 1.2bn people spread over 60 degrees of longitude all living by the same clock time. Compared with their fellows in the easternmost 15 degrees, the others are effectively living with single, double and quadruple summer time. With one, two and three doses of inflation already in place we should investigate... Do those in the west of China really have fewer accidents, use less energy, put out less carbon-dioxide, experience more growth, have greener grass and better Mathematics? If the answers are mostly yes, why don't the authorities introduce time zones to give the sunlight-deprived easterners the benefit enjoyed by the others? If the answers are mostly no, we must question whether the prediction that we would benefit from double summer time is sound. Finally: Do modern sundials in China indicate solar time on the relevant reference meridian? All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear Doug, I enjoyed your message. You end: I hope that I have shed some light on the annual silly debate, and look forward to some acclaim (I hope) and probably some protests. In my experience this debate takes place twice a year but, that aside, you may have my acclaim but also my protest! I certainly agree with all your Facts especially the first: 1. Time can be defined to what we want it to be. Now let us accept this, and all the other Facts, opinions and other arguments. Let us suppose that they way you want time to be defined will indeed reduce accidents, save energy and increase wealth. Let us suppose that it would make the grass greener and encourage the better teaching of Mathematics in schools. So how do you want time to be defined? You don't put it like this but what you are advocating is that: In winter we in the UK should use a close approximation to mean solar time on the meridian 15 degrees east and, in summer, we should use 30 degrees east as the reference meridian. If this is such a good idea (and, by assumption, it *is* a good idea) will you be advocating that those who *live* around 15n degrees east should use 15(n+1) degrees east and 15(n+2) degrees east as their reference meridians in winter and summer respectively? I am also happy to go along with what you describe as your next point: ... the lack of symmetry of the 'effective day'. Let us say that on average we rise between 7 and 8am, work 9 to 5, have evening leisure and go to bed at 10 - 11pm. It is obvious that the middle of the effective day is about three in the afternoon. Two points here: First, I should like a social historian to explain how this has come about. For most of human history the 'effective day' has, I believe, been what the Romans called 'dies naturalis', the period between sunrise and sunset. This was centred on noon. Secondly, accepting that there has been drift, does this matter? There is no law stopping people getting up earlier if they want a more symmetric day so we may suppose they don't want it. My belief is that people like going to bed late and getting up late. Accordingly, this drift is quite natural but it is also inflationary. It won't be long before you will advocate 15(n+2) and 15(n+3). All your advantages could be achieved by steadily cranking the ratchet back. When I gave a series of lectures at Magdeburg University in the 1980s, I chose the first slot of the day: 7am to 9am. I have tried offering this enlightened timetable to students here and they seem unenthusiastic. BUT, they would happily come to a 7am lecture if we CALLED it 9am. So, seemingly, would you. You are slightly wrong about my rising at 5am. At this time of year my alarm clock is set to 4am, but that's because I keep it at UTC. I solved the problem about staying awake during Fellows' Dinners by being the Presiding Fellow. We start eating at 7:30pm (whatever that means) and finish about 8:30pm. I then make it clear that there is no obligation to stay for the Port! I am coming round to the view that, left to myself, I would live very happily using Babylonian Hours. I would set my Babylonian alarm clock to 23h and so get up an hour before sunrise. I would go to bed about 16h and, at my latitude, that would be about sunset in summer and 8 hours after sunset in winter. It is, alas, unlikely that I will persuade many of this view :-) I am therefore inclined to shift my position. I note your Fact 3: that China uses a single time which covers 60 degrees of longitude, and I note Ruud's question: Why not a global time zone? Well, we already have one. It is called UTC. Just look at your e-mail header. You will see it spiced up with +, +0100 and +0200. If you have ever tried to set up a conference call with participants in three countries you will see the advantages of having a global time zone. This would also make life easier for sundial designers. All sundials with polar-oriented styles could readily indicate solar time on the reference meridian. There would be no need for a longitude correction and, subject only to the Equation of Time, one could check one's UTC watch at any such sundial on the planet. I will readily back such a proposal. Will you? As you say: d. We need not be trapped by tradition. All the best Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Better late than never I would like to enter this debate because I became quite concerned about the lack of objectivity. We seem to have had lots of comments about myths, folklore and personal prejudices. I quote James Lovelock We live at a time when emotions and feelings count more than the truth, and there is vast ignorance about science. I have a foot in each camp of sundials and clocks, and being a general student of time I am in favour of summer time throughout the year and then DOUBLE summer time, known as Single Double Summer Time (SDST). I have two reasons for this. During the world wars various countries had continuous summer time and then double summer time for the simple and glaringly obvious reason that the latter is to make the maximum use of a free resource, and conserve strategically important reserves of coal and oil. Happily we no longer have these constraints, but one correspondent believes the energy savings nowadays to be of the order of only 1% in the USA. Minor to the individual, but such an annual saving for the USA as a whole, will amount to about 4,000 Megawatts (Wikipedia, World energy resources and consumption). My next point concerns the lack of symmetry of the 'effective day'. Let us say that on average we rise between 7 and 8am, work 9 to 5, have evening leisure and go to bed at 10 - 11pm. It is obvious that the middle of the effective day is about three in the afternoon. Now there have been some smart comments about setting our alarm clocks an hour or so earlier, which may suit the self employed or retired, but the fact is that modern society likes many activities to start at agreed times, such a shopping, commerce, industry, travel, etc. Society as a whole (at least in the UK and most of Europe) understands the benefits of the one hour summer time change, and indeed is happy to make the change, as it has done so for nearly 100 years. In fact some organisations even plan events to take place on spring forward or fall back days, and during the winter months, many look forward to the longer summer evenings (which could be even longer with double summer time). Note that the one hour shift still leaves the middle of the effective day at about 2pm. I quote list member Dick Koolish The problem with all these arguments is that they assume that all hours of the day are equally useful, and they obviously are not. A sarcastic or funny joke doesn't change the fact that most people today have more waking hours after noon than before noon. With regard to the individual early start, as advocated by Frank King, we could suppose that he rises at 5am every day, and if his sleep pattern is like mine, he would need to go to bed about 9pm. This is inconvenient for the vast majority, particularly for evening social events, and Frank may have difficulty staying awake during the speeches at the Fellows' dinners. I have been told that slumping forward face-first into the dessert whilst the Master is on his feet is considered a bad career move. Apart from the joke, another concept is the 'end of the day'. Most theatres, cinemas and other public events start closing about 10pm, and most of the nation watches the 10pm news prior to bedtime, and the end of the day, may I suggest, is more sharply defined than noon (much more so, for most of the population). In other words, it is much more convenient for society as a whole to flick a switch, as it were, and all change an hour at once to synchronise social events, at the very least. In the UK the electricity consumption falls sharply during the evening (ref 1), and shifting the hour spreads the load and reduces consumption. I now turn to various reports and studies. The entry in Wikipedia is very informative and wide ranging, although it appears to suffer by trying to be all things to all men. However, I realised that data from one country or economic or climatic region does not necessarily apply to another. If follows that any critics of this essay must beware of generalisations, and my writings are necessarily centred on the British Isles. Nevertheless I hope that others can learn from the reports referenced. Many years ago I purchased a useful report at the Greenwich Observatory, written by Mayer Hillman of the Policy Studies Institute under Nuffield funding, entitled Time for Change, Setting clocks forward throughout the year, a new review of the evidence, dated 1993. See reference 2 for details. Although somewhat dated, many of the conclusions are still valid, and an updated version does exist. Road accidents studies feature prominently and I quote In 1992 the Transport Research Laboratory carried out a detailed analysis of of the likely effects of year round single and double summer time. (Overall) ... a reduction of 140 fatalities, 520 serious injuries and 1300 slight injuries...
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear Chuck, Your message was very useful therapy for me. [You should charge a fee :-) ] I ... conclude that DST is ... unnecessary ... for people who are capable of ... modifying their morning alarm clock. It is so much easier to change one alarm clock than to change all the other clocks: from the central heating to the microwave! I don't need a Government to tell me how to parcel out the hours of daylight and night. I could argue that DST is almost UnAmerican. I am simply astonished that so many people who get up at 7am can be persuaded to get up at 6am only if you CALL it 7am. I remember a child whose favourite snack was X's Yogurt. One day his Mom couldn't get X's Yogurt in the supermarket and got Y's Yogurt instead. The child wouldn't touch it. His Mom took it away, washed an old tub with X's Yogurt written on it and poured Y's Yogurt into it. The child ate it with a happy smile. It is amazing how susceptible people are to this kind of rebadging but I don't want my time rebadged thank you! The BBC's U.K. Farming Today program had five minutes of propaganda on this subject this morning. You can hear it at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/farmingtoday Click on Listen now for 18/03/2010. The clip starts 8m30s into the programme. You can click on COMMENTS BOARD and leave a comment. They might publish it. They didn't publish mine even though I followed all the guidelines about not using offensive or defamatory language! Ooops! I have just checked and they HAVE published my remarks. Look at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/farming-today/comments/ Please send in some more! Don't let Governments fiddle with time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
Boy! to hear it from some perspectives we should have stayed with un-equal hours...everyone knows the sun comes up at 6 and goes down at 6. We should never have let Pope Gregory mess with the calendar, who gave him the right to delete 10 days?...we all know that you can't add 1/4 of a day to a year and end up with a longer blanket. We should never add 1 second just to keep time connected to the slowing spin of the earth. We should never have created time zones, everyone knows that there can be only one real time; my neighbor can't have a clock one hour different! don't mess with things. And please no more about those brave, defiant Arizonan's, they live so far west in their time zone they're permanently in 'daylight savings' time and have only opted not to go to double summer time. (sorry John) In fact if you guys were working for 'God' you would have chastised him on making summer days (here) 16 hours and winter days only 9.5 hours of daylight! Most people here can't wait to get to longer days and especially the summer time shift...but then again I am part of the twisted, over active So. Cal. bunch! Personally I don't care how long daybreak is postponed, it doesn't matter at work; but I sure can't wait to get home, work in the shop, fire up the barbie, sit out on the deck and relax into the slow late twilight. To me winter is for very important hibernation. Hopefully many have enjoyed all of this DST 'humor', Fritz Stumpges -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de]on Behalf Of Reinhold Kriegler Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:38 AM To: 'Frank King'; 'Chuck Nafziger' Cc: 'Sundial List' Subject: AW: DST Misconceptions Dear Frank King, You definitely had been too moderate! Dr Frank King, University of Cambridge Summer Time is a legislative trick to get people out of bed earlier by telling lies about the time. Only a simpleton would chop the first foot off a tape measure and then claim to be a foot taller. You don't get more usable daylight by fiddling the clocks. If you want to use the morning daylight then set your alarm clock earlier. Changing one alarm clock is much quicker than changing every clock from the one on the microwave to that on the central heating. If there are so many benefits, economic, social and environmental, from getting up earlier then why aren't people doing this of their own accord? Probably because they prefer staying in bed. In which case, let them stay in bed. A change to double summer time would simply amount to time inflation. People would continue to stay in bed and before long we would have calls for triple and quadruple summer time. Keep the clocks at GMT and let people decide how they wish to parcel up their days. Many tourists come for the night-life whether on beaches or in cities. By sticking with GMT their night-life appears to start earlier! As a wise Indian Chief said in Arizona when daylight saving time was explained to him: only a white man could believe that by cutting one foot off the end of a blanket and sewing it to the other end can you end up with a longer blanket. I followed all the guidelines about not using offensive or defamatory language! Don't put yourself in charge of such a BBC guardian! :-) Don't let Governments fiddle with time! When I read this sentence also other subjects came into my mind... Best wishes! Reinhold Kriegler * ** *** * ** *** Reinhold R. Kriegler Lat. 53° 6' 52,6 Nord; Long. 8° 53' 52,3 Ost; 48 m ü. N.N. www.ta-dip.de http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCoJHwzzjUfmt=18 http://www.ta-dip.de/203,0,r-e-i-n-h-o-l-d,index,0.html -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] Im Auftrag von Frank King Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. März 2010 12:05 An: Chuck Nafziger Cc: Sundial List Betreff: Re: DST Misconceptions Dear Chuck, Your message was very useful therapy for me. [You should charge a fee :-) ] I ... conclude that DST is ... unnecessary ... for people who are capable of ... modifying their morning alarm clock. It is so much easier to change one alarm clock than to change all the other clocks: from the central heating to the microwave! I don't need a Government to tell me how to parcel out the hours of daylight and night. I could argue that DST is almost UnAmerican. I am simply astonished that so many people who get up at 7am can be persuaded to get up at 6am only if you CALL it 7am. I remember a child whose favourite snack was X's Yogurt. One day his Mom couldn't get X's Yogurt in the supermarket and got Y's Yogurt instead. The child wouldn't touch it. His Mom took it away, washed an old tub with X's Yogurt written on it and poured Y's Yogurt into it. The child ate it with a happy smile. It is amazing how susceptible people are to this kind of rebadging but I don't want my time rebadged thank you! The BBC's
Re: DST Misconceptions
...last year I solved the problem of DST at my home; now I've Delight Sleeping Time: http://www.nonvedolora.it/gnomonica/immagini/its/bresso5.JPG ciao Fabio Fabio Savian fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it Paderno Dugnano, Milan, Italy 45° 34' 10'' N 9° 10' 9'' E GMT +1 (DST +2)--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Utterly brilliant! Chris 51.4N 1.3W GMT for another week - Original Message - From: Fabio Savian To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions ...last year I solved the problem of DST at my home; now I've Delight Sleeping Time: http://www.nonvedolora.it/gnomonica/immagini/its/bresso5.JPG ciao Fabio Fabio Savian fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it Paderno Dugnano, Milan, Italy 45° 34' 10'' N 9° 10' 9'' E GMT +1 (DST +2) -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
I had to laugh out loud when I saw your magnificent design. Thank you so much. Van: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] Namens Fabio Savian Onderwerp: Re: DST Misconceptions ...last year I solved the problem of DST at my home; now I've Delight Sleeping Time: http://www.nonvedolora.it/gnomonica/immagini/its/bresso5.JPG --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
Perhaps it is better explained this way, as a wise old Arizona Indian chief once said when daylight savings was explained to him: Only a white man would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom of a blanket and have a longer blanket. From: jlcarmich...@comcast.net To: illustratingshad...@yahoo.com; sundial@uni-koeln.de; frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: RE: DST Misconceptions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:11:02 -0700 I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Hi 2010/3/16 Chuck Nafziger canafzi...@hotmail.com Perhaps it is better explained this way, as a wise old Arizona Indian chief once said when daylight savings was explained to him: Only a white man would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom of a blanket and have a longer blanket. To that great wisdom I would like to add. Only white man uses electricity for the lighting in the evenings. Cheers Aimo Niemi From: jlcarmich...@comcast.net To: illustratingshad...@yahoo.com; sundial@uni-koeln.de; frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: RE: DST Misconceptions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:11:02 -0700 I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
The problem with all these arguments is that they assume that all hours of the day are equally useful, and they obviously are not. A sarcastic or funny joke doesn't change the fact that most people today have more waking hours after noon than before noon. Hi 2010/3/16 Chuck Nafziger canafzi...@hotmail.com Perhaps it is better explained this way, as a wise old Arizona Indian chief once said when daylight savings was explained to him: Only a white man would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom of a blanket and have a longer blanket. To that great wisdom I would like to add. Only white man uses electricity for the lighting in the evenings. Cheers Aimo Niemi From: jlcarmich...@comcast.net To: illustratingshad...@yahoo.com; sundial@uni-koeln.de; frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: RE: DST Misconceptions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:11:02 -0700 I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
I wonder why then does the state of Arizona does NOT observe DST, but the Navajo Indian reservation in Arizona DOES observe DST? Must be because they have their own government. Shouldn't that be the opposite if the blanket story is true? From: xni...@gmail.com [mailto:xni...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Aimo Niemi Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:20 AM To: Chuck Nafziger Cc: John Carmichael; sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions Hi 2010/3/16 Chuck Nafziger canafzi...@hotmail.com Perhaps it is better explained this way, as a wise old Arizona Indian chief once said when daylight savings was explained to him: Only a white man would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket and sew it to the bottom of a blanket and have a longer blanket. To that great wisdom I would like to add. Only white man uses electricity for the lighting in the evenings. Cheers Aimo Niemi From: jlcarmich...@comcast.net To: illustratingshad...@yahoo.com; sundial@uni-koeln.de; frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: RE: DST Misconceptions Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:11:02 -0700 I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com http://www.illustratingshadows.com/ Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
I live at about latitude 48 N. where a one hour time change is insufficient to make use of the changing sunrise. I have been at several jobs where the shop workers were capable of changing their shop hours so they would get to work shortly after sunrise during the summer so they could enjoy all sixteen daylight hours. For some reason, the white collar workers at the same companies did not change their hours and missed out on early sunlight, even counting DST. I do not like DST and conclude that DST is both unnecessary and insufficient for people who are capable of anticipating the sunrise and modifying their morning alarm clock. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
It certainly seems to be causing some heart-burn on this list. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Carmichael jlcarmich...@comcast.netwrote: I also heard of a study last year that concluded that DST caused heart attacks! -Original Message- From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Simon [illustratingshadows Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List'; Frank King Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions My understanding, not having followed this thread, is that at best there is a believed savings of energy to the order of 1%. I have no idea if that is statistically valid. I am also told that the shift from standard to daylight time causes some 263 traffic deaths during the transitional period, compared to the norm. No consideration is given to the southern states. This is political folly at its best, and we like sheep. Congratulations Arizona on standing firm, with a NO to DST. Simon Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Silver City, New Mexico W108.2 N32.75 and Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions To: 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:10 AM Dear John and Jack, Reading about the benefits of Daylight Saving Time always reminds me of Betrand Russell's remark: If you make a single false assumption you can prove anything. Daylight Saving Time is just a legislative trick to get people out of bed an hour early by telling lies about the time. By telling these lies you can make all kinds of dubious claims but suppose, for a moment, that we accept all these claims... Let us accept that there are huge economic, social and conservation benefits from getting up an hour earlier. In which case why aren't people doing this of their own accord? There is no need to tell lies about the time! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. P.S. Russell was once challenged at a talk... OK, suppose you accept the false assumption that 1+1 = 3, can you prove that you are the Pope? Certainly said Russell. You subtract one from both sides to give 1 = 2. Now the Pope and I are two people so this means that the Pope and I are one person and, therefore, I am the Pope. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Hi: Here's a video that busts the myths surrounding the benefits of DST. Rachel Maddow- Daylight-saving time explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48Mg0dl4Gw Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Even if the myths are busted, some people still like it. Most of our lives are not symmetrical around noon, but are biased to the afternoon and evenings, so having more daylight then is a better match for our daily activities. In Boston, the summer solstice sunrise is at 5:08 AM. That's two hours before I'm even thinking about getting up. :-) Hi: Here's a video that busts the myths surrounding the benefits of DST. Rachel Maddow- Daylight-saving time explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48Mg0dl4Gw Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Hi Dick: Yes, Both Rachel and the author of the book about DST like it, without any of the official reasons given for it. They both agree it does tend to cause people to spend more money. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com kool...@dickkoolish.com wrote: Even if the myths are busted, some people still like it. Most of our lives are not symmetrical around noon, but are biased to the afternoon and evenings, so having more daylight then is a better match for our daily activities. In Boston, the summer solstice sunrise is at 5:08 AM. That's two hours before I'm even thinking about getting up. :-) Hi: Here's a video that busts the myths surrounding the benefits of DST. Rachel Maddow- Daylight-saving time explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48Mg0dl4Gw Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
Dear Dick, In Boston, the summer solstice sunrise is at 5:08 AM. That's two hours before I'm even thinking about getting up. :-) OK. Suppose I broke into your apartment while you were asleep and advanced all your clocks so they said 7:08AM. Would you think about getting up then? That's pretty much what Governments do except that they don't have to break into your house. They make a law so that you change your own clocks :-) Suppose they introduced another law that said... During the summer months you should cut the first foot off all tape measures so they start at 1 instead of 0. We would all be a foot taller during the summer. Everyone would be happy. I think I shall set up a political party to introduce this legislation! Why stop there? During the summer we could add 10 volts to the readings of all voltmeters and 10mph to all speedometers. We could finally pass the Indiana bill that attempted to set the value of pi to 3.2, but only during the summer of course. Oh, how about adding $1bn to all bank accounts too? Hey, wait a minute. Didn't they already try that one? Enjoy your extra daylight! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: DST Misconceptions
LOL. I do like that Frank. I always thought that the advantages of DST increased a tad as one went North. Indeed I understand from friends there that in Scotland the advantages are such that even the farmers manage to forget the fact that their animals have a short problem when DST came in and out. The advantages for other aspects of DST life begin to be realised there. Not least the way in which children can go to and return from school in more daylight than before. This has (of course) led to the suggestion that the Scots should have their own time. But there are some advantages of DST for those of us in the higher latitudes. The other thing that hasn't yet been touched upon in this mail list exchange is the idea of DST being adopted permanently instead of the 'normal' time. This strange idea is often suggested by those living in Kent and was even tried in Britain some time ago yet later abandoned for good reason. The idea has also recently been tried in Portugal; once again with a massive vote against after a period of trial. Yet the insanity persists. Has this odd suggestion been tried outside Western Europe I wonder? Regards Patrick -Original Message- From: Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk To: kool...@dickkoolish.com Cc: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 2:59 pm Subject: Re: DST Misconceptions Dear Dick, In Boston, the summer solstice sunrise is at 5:08 AM. That's two hours before I'm even thinking about getting up. :-) OK. Suppose I broke into your apartment while you were asleep and advanced all your clocks so they said 7:08AM. Would you think about getting up then? That's pretty much what Governments do except that they don't have to break into your house. They make a law so that you change your own clocks :-) Suppose they introduced another law that said... During the summer months you should cut the first foot off all tape measures so they start at 1 instead of 0. We would all be a foot taller during the summer. Everyone would be happy. I think I shall set up a political party to introduce this legislation! Why stop there? During the summer we could add 10 volts to the readings of all voltmeters and 10mph to all speedometers. We could finally pass the Indiana bill that attempted to set the value of pi to 3.2, but only during the summer of course. Oh, how about adding $1bn to all bank accounts too? Hey, wait a minute. Didn't they already try that one? Enjoy your extra daylight! Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
How about the misconception that it saves energy. I have never seen any serious scientific study that supports that theory which is implausible given energy use patterns in the 21st century. Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of John Carmichael Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List' Subject: DST Misconceptions Every year at this time, you hear about people who actually believe that one hour of time is lost. It's as if they think that Daylight Saving Time works like a Time Machine. Case in Point: Yesterday, while watching a respected national news weather report, the weatherman was standing on a beach in New Jersey reporting on the horrible windy weather. He was commenting on how the ocean waves were eroding the beach. He actually said this: Thank goodness for Daylight Saving Time, because that means that there will be one less hour of beach erosion! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: DST Misconceptions
So many people today stay so far removed from the real, natural, historical, and political worlds. It would be nice to believe that the bi-annual time change (while I also lean towards believing that they have likely lost most of there energy-saving intent), would be a teaching opportunity but disrupting people's sleep just enough to make people ask questions. I am probably being optimistic here but it cannot hurt Thad --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Jack Aubert jaub...@cpcug.org wrote: From: Jack Aubert jaub...@cpcug.org Subject: RE: DST Misconceptions To: 'John Carmichael' jlcarmich...@comcast.net, 'Sundial Mailing List' sundial@uni-koeln.de Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 4:00 PM How about the misconception that it saves energy. I have never seen any serious scientific study that supports that theory which is implausible given energy use patterns in the 21st century. Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of John Carmichael Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'Sundial Mailing List' Subject: DST Misconceptions Every year at this time, you hear about people who actually believe that one hour of time is lost. It’s as if they think that Daylight Saving Time works like a Time Machine. Case in Point: Yesterday, while watching a respected national news weather report, the weatherman was standing on a beach in New Jersey reporting on the horrible windy weather. He was commenting on how the ocean waves were eroding the beach. He actually said this: “Thank goodness for Daylight Saving Time, because that means that there will be one less hour of beach erosion!” -Inline Attachment Follows- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
