Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
I suggest a puppy chasing it's tail. > > Oh, you know that when I get a bit of free time, that's the next change I'm > going to make to the freenet systray app... (of course, maybe a limping > rabbit, rather than a running one) > > d ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
> In this case, because the result's performance sucks? Anyway, the > code to stick the little bunny in the system tray on Windows is a > system-specific case. And it's probably messier to do system specific > crap like that from Java than using native code. By the way, making > the icon a leaping rabbit doesn't actually make the darn thing run > any faster, you know. :P Oh, you know that when I get a bit of free time, that's the next change I'm going to make to the freenet systray app... (of course, maybe a limping rabbit, rather than a running one) d ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On 26 May 2004 at 9:47, Phillip Hutchings wrote: > > On 26/05/2004, at 9:36 AM, Paul Derbyshire wrote: > > > ... rather than just having one, platform > > dependent #idfef-filled source file with the appropriate functions > > duplicated for all the different supported platforms. > > That's the perfect reason to use Java! It may not be the nicest code, > but you only have one version! It makes maintainability far easier than > #ifdef'd code, which is problematic at best. If one code base runs on > all platforms, and even better if the same executable does, then why > not use it? In this case, because the result's performance sucks? Anyway, the code to stick the little bunny in the system tray on Windows is a system-specific case. And it's probably messier to do system specific crap like that from Java than using native code. By the way, making the icon a leaping rabbit doesn't actually make the darn thing run any faster, you know. :P ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Couldn't retrieve key
I just found out about freenet and it sound so good!but I installed it and I can't get it working! I have Zonealarm installed and gave all of the programs full access, this is the error I get when triing to run it. Freenet Route Not Found Network Error Couldn't retrieve key: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/GPL.txt Hops To Live: 10 Error: Route Not Found Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes. 0 were totally unreachable.0 restarted.0 cleanly rejected.The request couldn't even make it off of your node. Try again, perhaps with the GPL to help your node learn about others. The publicly available seed nodes have been very busy lately. If possible try to get a friend to give you a reference to their node instead. Route Not Found messages mean that your node, or the rest of the network, didn't find the data or enough nodes to send the request to. You should retry, with the same Hops-To-Live; if it persists, there may be a problem (check that your internet connection is working). Try reseeding your node, and if that doesn't work, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Change Hops To Live to and I tried the gpl and the live hop to 10, still no luckThanks Leo My mom very proudly explained that she never buys Swiss cheese because "with all those holes you don't get as much per pound." Do you Yahoo!?Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On 26/05/2004, at 9:36 AM, Paul Derbyshire wrote: ... rather than just having one, platform dependent #idfef-filled source file with the appropriate functions duplicated for all the different supported platforms. That's the perfect reason to use Java! It may not be the nicest code, but you only have one version! It makes maintainability far easier than #ifdef'd code, which is problematic at best. If one code base runs on all platforms, and even better if the same executable does, then why not use it? -- Phillip Hutchings [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sitharus.com/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On 25 May 2004 at 13:37, Christopher Brian Jack wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 May 2004, Ian Clarke wrote: > > > That is a shame. Clearly I don't agree with your reasoning, there is no > > evidence that any other language would not have similar or worse issues > > (consider the amount of time we would spend dealing with memory leaks > > and array overflows had we implemented in C++). As for focus, our > > Not to mention the issues with portability on a C/C++ implementation. Issues with portability? If we were talking a GUI app I'd agree with you, but the core of freenet is basically a pure backend is it not? The only visible UI most of the time on Windows is a systray icon or the Web interface; the latter's retrieved via HTTP and will work with any browser on any OS, and the former is not something Java supports directly anyway, so displaying a suitable icon in a suitable background-tasks part of the UI is system dependent any way you slice it, causing exactly as many portability headaches in Java as it would in C or C++ -- maybe more since you probably have to wrestle with the hairy JNI to pull it off, rather than just having one, platform dependent #idfef-filled source file with the appropriate functions duplicated for all the different supported platforms. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On Tue, 25 May 2004, Ian Clarke wrote: > That is a shame. Clearly I don't agree with your reasoning, there is no > evidence that any other language would not have similar or worse issues > (consider the amount of time we would spend dealing with memory leaks > and array overflows had we implemented in C++). As for focus, our Not to mention the issues with portability on a C/C++ implementation. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On Tue, 25 May 2004 10:51:20 -0400, Jay Oliveri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1) Fred takes too much CPU and RAM because it's written in Java. I hate this depate. It's true that object orienting uses up (a few) more bytes than non-OO programming, but that's trivial compared to the structuring you (can) get with OO vs non-OO. JIT Java (which we're all running) is also very speedy, there's only a few rare instances where it's worth the trouble to replace code with something natively instead. On the other hand, it's quite easy to lose control with object creation, and to forget how to help the GC do the work most efficiently. That has nothing to do with Java in itself though. /me - professional Software Engineer, well trained in C, C++ and Java (although mostly J2ME) -- http://troed.se - controversial views or common sense? ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
On Tuesday 25 May 2004 06:36 am, Robert Greenage wrote: > This appears to be a major blow to the development of freenet.Conrad is a > major force behind the whole project.Without him I don't see any other > developer capable of stepping up and filling the void. He has a good > point with the constant code changes that do seem to be "a shot in the > dark" There is a fuzziness of focus that has impeded the development of > the project. I'm not sure how long you've been around the project but to say you "don't see any other developer capable of stepping up and filling the void" is an overstatement. I thought Conrad's main points were: 1) Fred takes too much CPU and RAM because it's written in Java. 2) The project has no focus. I don't agree with either point in absolute terms, but there's always room for improvement. > It saddens me to see a new significant idea come to fruition > and then, for whatever reason(s) become bogged down in what appears to be > an aimless series of attempts at correction. Conrad you will be missed. Well some of these ideas worked on paper, and then didn't work when they were released into the wild. Most of these ideas are untested, and do not have a prior-case to study and learn from. -- Jay Oliveri GnuPG ID: 0x5AA5DD54 FCPTools Maintainer www.sf.net/users/joliveri ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] First freenet start, first freenet bugs
How did you install Freenet, what version did you install, and what is your operating system? Can't explain what's wrong until you tell us what you did. Also did you edit the freenet.conf file manually by hand? At first glance it looks like freenet.conf is corrupted so maybe try deleting it and rerunning freenet. > I install the last version of Freenet and nothing work. I can't open the > gateway... > There is an infinite loop and I really don't understand what is the > problem. > Someone can explain me what's wrong with Freenet ? > Thanks. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] First freenet start, first freenet bugs
I install the last version of Freenet and nothing work. I can't open the gateway... There is an infinite loop and I really don't understand what is the problem. Someone can explain me what's wrong with Freenet ? Thanks. java version "1.4.2_04" Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_04-b05) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2_04-b05, mixed mode) 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.node.Main, main, NORMAL): loading node keys: node 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.node.Main, main, MINOR): Reading node file... 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.FieldSet, main, DEBUG): privParse ([EMAIL PROTECTED], , ,=,.,true,[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]) 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.FieldSet, main, DEBUG): Returning trailing field name End 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.node.Main, main, ERROR): Unexpected Exception: java.lang.NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException at freenet.support.HexUtil.hexToBytes(HexUtil.java:55) at freenet.support.HexUtil.hexToBytes(HexUtil.java:51) at freenet.node.Main.loadNodeFile(Main.java:3374) at freenet.node.Main.main(Main.java:498) java.lang.NullPointerException at freenet.support.HexUtil.hexToBytes(HexUtil.java:55) at freenet.support.HexUtil.hexToBytes(HexUtil.java:51) at freenet.node.Main.loadNodeFile(Main.java:3374) at freenet.node.Main.main(Main.java:498) 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.support.BlockingQueue, PRNG/Yarrow entropy processing thread, DEBUG): Waiting... class java.util.LinkedList:[] 24 mai 2004 00:09:43 (freenet.support.BlockingQueue, PRNG/Yarrow entropy processing thread, DEBUG): Waiting... class java.util.LinkedList:[] ... ... ... ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: Traffic usage?
Toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 05:04:53AM +, Wayne McDougall wrote: > Not terribly well, because of high level bandwidth limiting. The node > needs to know how much bandwidth is available to estimate how much is > being used and therefore how many queries to allow. With respect this seems insufficiently good enough for the real world nature in which a node will run. People will want (I want) Freenet to notice that its share of bandwidth has been dropped and to react accordingly. Current messageSendTimeRequest seems a good measure of that. So I naively ask can't we mroe dynamically adjust bandwidth caps down when we see messageSendTimeRequest shoot up? Probably not...I suspect that would create a vicious circle. Ok but isn';t there some measure Freenet can use to notice it's getting choked and not to try and hog the connection? Ok I am for all intents and purposes and innocent newbie whose just been quitely running a node for two years, trying to share what bandwidth I can because I think the project is worthwhile and bandwidth (so I've read) is the greatest need. And certainly I've seen Freenet (when on a good enough build, which is usually the case) sucks up every last byte of my bandwidth and I like to think that that is being useful to someone somehow. I've assumed that if my 80 Gb datastore fills up at 1 Gb per day, and Freenet still routes to and through my meager 128/128 kbps line (even when I cap it lower) that, hey, maybe my node is useful or needed or something. And when I see something new on COFE and follow the link and find 10% of the data is already in my meagre 1.5 Gb store I think hey, it got there somehow. I'm impressed with how well it works. Much better lately, thank you Toad. And I'm amazed so many connections are to Sweden or Germany or such like. In fact I've ever only noticed one (brief) connection to a New Zealand node. I'm not sure what that all means, except that even on a (by world standards) a relatively low bandwidth node, Freenet is highly functional to me. I'm rambling...my point is that I read and try to understand but I'm a newbie and may blather in my innocence...forgive my questionsand comments. I don't expect agreement. But I throw them out anyway. > > I watch (with envy) discussions on bandwidth and pricing and (sadly) I > > think the world is moving more to caps (monthly limits) rather than open. > > It certainly is in Oz and NZ. Indeed. And I notice the whining of people in the US when their providers move them on to similar capped plans. Maybe the competition is strong enough to mitigate that, but bandwidth ain't cheap and simple economics seems the way to stop the leeches. I see it as a growing trend. But that's just my view. Wish it would trend the other way. > There is sadly no priority in it ATM. To help one user run a node in a > wierd situation... hmm. I'll think about it. Absolutely. You set the priorities. I have no expectations that anything would be done about it. Mostly I have a questions, which I think is still unanswered: How will a node respond if one set of connections has a high bandwidth cap and another set of connections has a low bandwidth cap (assuming these caps are applied externally). Does the node give its average recommendation on retry intervals and load to ALL the connections? Will the high bandwidth connections figure out this is a good node to deal with, even if I'm sending out a retry interval based on averages. Put another way: does freenet assume all my outgoing and incoming connections have equal bandwidth throughput? Does that affect routing in a suboptimal way? Depending on your answers I may have other questions such as "should I run two nodes - one for high bandwidth only and one for low bandwidth? Blocking connections from the wrong connection set? Or just what should I think of doing in these cases?" Finally I'll just politely take issue with "one user" in a "weird situation". I don't think the situation is as weird as you might think. And it ain't just one user. I appreciate that it still won't be enough to be a priority. I didn't expect that. But it may be as you work on infrastructure and future changes you may give a little thought to how a few small changes in plans may make it better for us in a "weird situation". ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: averagebandwidthlimit results
Phillip Hutchings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > OK, I enabled an average[input|output]bandwidthlimit of 500. In 5 hours > I've transferred 400MiB of data, which is still far too high, > considering that I should be transferring 288MiB each way per day > (which is also too high). The average is averaged over a week. I don't know when the counters get reset but I have found that when you first start using the average it seems to say "aha, your average has been zero for the last 7 days, so I'll crank it up to the max". It does start working correctly after a while, but seriously I find the input and output (rather than average) work better and at the least you should probably use in conjunction, until you have some data for the average to work with. That's just my experience and observation. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: Traffic usage?
On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 05:04:53AM +, Wayne McDougall wrote: > Toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 09:05:42AM +, Wayne McDougall wrote: > > > Perhaps. That would also lead to high message send times though. Freenet > > needs to know what the limit is even if you use external limiting. > > Fair enough. But given shared bandwidth needs shouldn't a node adapt. > How quickly (if at all) does a node adapt to having less bandwidth than is > specified in the limits? How well does that work? Not terribly well, because of high level bandwidth limiting. The node needs to know how much bandwidth is available to estimate how much is being used and therefore how many queries to allow. > > > > So I've been working towards a Linux traffic shaper that gives sets no > limits > > > on traffic with domestic IP addresses and limits international traffic > so the > > > total monthly limit hits 5 Gb (my cap). > > > > HOW do you determine what is local? Freenet could maybe support this. > > A list of IP blocks in CIDR notation. Which in turn is derived from > http://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20040106 > http://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20040106";>a > periodically updated list - picking out my country gives my domestic > (zero bandwidth cost) IPs. Ah cool. > > > Are you in Spain by any chance? The last poster on this topic was.. > > New Zealand. (Bang goes my anonymity). I think people (I use the word > loosely) from Australia would have similar issues. And Spain. > > I watch (with envy) discussions on bandwidth and pricing and (sadly) I > think the world is moving more to caps (monthly limits) rather than open. It certainly is in Oz and NZ. > So I think that this is an area that Freenet should address at some time. > I'm biased of course. I'm also willing to help since I think you've > commented that you lack develoeprs living in a low bandwidth capped > environment. I don't know I can help much but the offer is there. There is sadly no priority in it ATM. To help one user run a node in a wierd situation... hmm. I'll think about it. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project
This appears to be a major blow to the development of freenet.Conrad is a major force behind the whole project.Without him I don't see any other developer capable of stepping up and filling the void. He has a good point with the constant code changes that do seem to be "a shot in the dark" There is a fuzziness of focus that has impeded the development of the project. It saddens me to see a new significant idea come to fruition and then, for whatever reason(s) become bogged down in what appears to be an aimless series of attempts at correction. Conrad you will be missed. > [Original Message] > From: Ian Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Discussion of development issues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Freenet technical mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Freenet support mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 5/25/04 12:42:21 AM > Subject: [freenet-support] Re: [freenet-dev] Retiring from the project > > That is a shame. Clearly I don't agree with your reasoning, there is no > evidence that any other language would not have similar or worse issues > (consider the amount of time we would spend dealing with memory leaks > and array overflows had we implemented in C++). As for focus, our > experimental approach is a necessary consequence of the fact that we are > doing something completely new that nobody has done before, this > necessitates a different approach than if we were, say, implementing an > operating system. Furthermore, many of the changes made to the code > have been to simplify and refactor it, not just to add further complexity. > > Anyway, thanks for your contribution to-date, can someone remove DFI > from the gateway page? > > Ian. > > Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > It saddens me more than a little to have to announce this, but I've decided to > > retire from the freenet project. I will no longer be active as a developer or > > as an index site maintainer, or as the operator of a node. > > > > I'm truly sorry, but with only a 1 gHz machine with 512 MB of RAM, freenet > > simply consumes too much of my system's resources, both in terms of CPU time > > and memory (not to mention bandwidth), especially continuously running a second > > Java app besides (the spider). > > > > I find Java's memory requirements to be totally unreasonable, its performance > > lackluster, and I've finally come to the conclusion that it was indeed a poor > > choice of language in which to implement a project of this size and complexity. > > A native-compiled language would have offered vastly superior speed and, no > > doubt, significantly lower memory consumption as well. > > > > In addition, I'm finding myself increasingly put off by the project's apparent > > lack of organization and focus. Rather than streamlining, simplifying, > > cleaning up and verifying the existing design, we have a never-ending series of > > "let's try this" and "let's try that". Too many code changes are being done on > > pure speculation and hopeful optimism, rather than close scrutiny and careful > > analysis. I fear that at the rate we're going, as more and more new ideas are > > incorporated into an already extremely complex design, this burgeoning > > complexity will eventually result in a system that *no one* truly understands > > the workings of, or how the various parts of the whole interact, rendering it > > virtually impossible to anticipate or even estimate the impact that changing > > this or that part of the code will have on the rest. This does not exactly > > make me feel optimistic about the project's future success. > > > > I still do believe the project's goal is an admirable one, and an important > > one, and I do wish you all the best in your endeavors. > > > > Regards to everyone, > > > > Conrad (aka dolphin) > > > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] averagebandwidthlimit results
OK, I enabled an average[input|output]bandwidthlimit of 500. In 5 hours I've transferred 400MiB of data, which is still far too high, considering that I should be transferring 288MiB each way per day (which is also too high). Anyway, when I'm back on my cable connection (I'm away from my place at the moment, dialup :/ I'm accessing my node through an SSH tunnel) I'll grab the freenet source from CVS and look at it, see if I can figure it out ;) -- Phillip Hutchings [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sitharus.com/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
