Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:48:36 +, Toad wrote: >> >Heh. That's called an RNF. It stands for "Route Not Found". And no, you >> >don't need FUQID to download files from freenet >> ...but it works much better than anything else I've tried. :-) > >I thought you didn't have it? :) I had left the Mozilla window with the RNF message open over night, and voila, the next morning the prog was downloaded. >Woah. You're happy with the performance of freenet? This cannot happen, >it doesn't make sense, it's against all Newsbyte's assertions, the sky >is falling... :) Still, considering the first two or three days, he does have a point. On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:23:52 -0500, Nicholas Sturm wrote: >He can't be on anything below DSL or he is happy on a Commodore. Yes, I'm on 2 Mbit DSL. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
> > Thanks for your answers, all in all I'm happy now with the performance of > > Freenet, I've given it 6GB to store data and it already uses 1.5GB. > > Woah. You're happy with the performance of freenet? This cannot happen, > it doesn't make sense, it's against all Newsbyte's assertions, the sky > is falling... :) > -- He can't be on anything below DSL or he is happy on a Commodore. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 07:41:27PM +, Clueless wrote: > On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:35:48 +, Toad wrote: > > >That has generally been true of freenet in the past, unfortunately. We > >have made some progress, but nodes not working well for newbies is > >expected. > > That's OK, as long as the newbie knows what to expect. I think the site says > something about "a few hours", which hasn't quite been my experience... > Oh, and the default size of the data store should be increased. A lot. Yes, Ian always exaggerates for publicity. I'm not quite sure why as it seems to harm more than it gains us. > > >Heh. That's called an RNF. It stands for "Route Not Found". And no, you > >don't need FUQID to download files from freenet > > ...but it works much better than anything else I've tried. :-) I thought you didn't have it? :) > > >> The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. > >Very probably. Anything that learns can't start up instantly. We've > >tried to improve it though, and maybe we can get a bit further with > >that. And of course, the overall network performance is a lot lower than > >it ought to be. > > It's not only performance. For example, the prominently featured "Freenet Help > Index" links to an old version of Frost, which is why I couldn't get it to > work > first. Not our problem, but maybe he's on the list. > > >Possibly. But if we distributed Frost, for example, then we get a lot > >closer to "filesharing", which may have legal ramifications - especially > >with Frost's current initial boards selection! > > You have a point there... > > Thanks for your answers, all in all I'm happy now with the performance of > Freenet, I've given it 6GB to store data and it already uses 1.5GB. Woah. You're happy with the performance of freenet? This cannot happen, it doesn't make sense, it's against all Newsbyte's assertions, the sky is falling... :) -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Well, on my Mac OS X 10.3.6 800Mhz iBook server with 640MB RAM, Apple's 1.4.1 JVM and 10GB Freenet store over a NAT AirPort Extreme fixed IP RCN cable connection, Freenet is OK a lot of the time. Loads up to a 100 connections are normal. Generally, I do restart Freenet and wait only a few minutes if I want maximum performance out of a surfing session, but I think that's perfectly fine for betaware. Freenet 5100 seems a little better at things. I've been using Freenet for well over a year non-stop from my little iBook server. I also run three PHP/MySQL PostNuke sites from 4D's WebStar V and SMTP mail on that little guy too. Process viewer shows the CPU handling it fine most of the time. Only Java max's the CPU at Freenet startup. I think it's kind cool to see a little iBook talking to thousands of servers world wide all by itself. I think I'm going to write a children's book about my little iBook. On 12/2/04 2:41 PM, "Clueless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:35:48 +, Toad wrote: > >> That has generally been true of freenet in the past, unfortunately. We >> have made some progress, but nodes not working well for newbies is >> expected. > > That's OK, as long as the newbie knows what to expect. I think the site says > something about "a few hours", which hasn't quite been my experience... > Oh, and the default size of the data store should be increased. A lot. > >> Heh. That's called an RNF. It stands for "Route Not Found". And no, you >> don't need FUQID to download files from freenet > > but it works much better than anything else I've tried. :-) > >>> The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. >> Very probably. Anything that learns can't start up instantly. We've >> tried to improve it though, and maybe we can get a bit further with >> that. And of course, the overall network performance is a lot lower than >> it ought to be. > > It's not only performance. For example, the prominently featured "Freenet Help > Index" links to an old version of Frost, which is why I couldn't get it to > work > first. > >> Possibly. But if we distributed Frost, for example, then we get a lot >> closer to "filesharing", which may have legal ramifications - especially >> with Frost's current initial boards selection! > > You have a point there... > > Thanks for your answers, all in all I'm happy now with the performance of > Freenet, I've given it 6GB to store data and it already uses 1.5GB. > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Quoting Toad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 01:33:28AM +, Clueless wrote: > > Now it's better, although as I write this, all I get is "The network is > > busy, please try again later" while trying to download FUQID, a program one > > seems to absolutely need to download from Freenet... > > you don't need FUQID to download files from freenet I thought he was saying that to get FUQID, you need to download it from Freenet. Not that you need FUQID in order to download anything from Freenet. -todd ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Quoting Clueless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Thanks for your answers, all in all I'm happy now with the performance of > Freenet, I've given it 6GB to store data and it already uses 1.5GB. This is heartening to hear. I really wonder how often we gain a user who makes it past the initial (slow) ramp-up of node performance. -todd ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:35:48 +, Toad wrote: >That has generally been true of freenet in the past, unfortunately. We >have made some progress, but nodes not working well for newbies is >expected. That's OK, as long as the newbie knows what to expect. I think the site says something about "a few hours", which hasn't quite been my experience... Oh, and the default size of the data store should be increased. A lot. >Heh. That's called an RNF. It stands for "Route Not Found". And no, you >don't need FUQID to download files from freenet ...but it works much better than anything else I've tried. :-) >> The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. >Very probably. Anything that learns can't start up instantly. We've >tried to improve it though, and maybe we can get a bit further with >that. And of course, the overall network performance is a lot lower than >it ought to be. It's not only performance. For example, the prominently featured "Freenet Help Index" links to an old version of Frost, which is why I couldn't get it to work first. >Possibly. But if we distributed Frost, for example, then we get a lot >closer to "filesharing", which may have legal ramifications - especially >with Frost's current initial boards selection! You have a point there... Thanks for your answers, all in all I'm happy now with the performance of Freenet, I've given it 6GB to store data and it already uses 1.5GB. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 07:54:45AM +0100, Someone wrote: > ~From your posts I guess you haven't been running a stable node for some > time, > then installed a new one and tried to insert your flog the same day. Then it > doesn't suprise me that it took quite some time. Let your node run a week > with > frost (to train it) and you will see a great improvement, shure a week is a > long > time, but if you take in mind that it has to learn a whole network and find > some > good routes/nodes it's not that much. Since build 5099 I see specialization > on > my node and insert speed is very good. I currently run 4 freesites, the > smallest > about 100kB, the biggest nearly 30MB. The smallest is usually inserted > within > 10 Minutes. The biggest takes between 4 to 6 hours, this isn't too long for > the > amount of bandwith my node is allowed to use. This is IMHO a major problem for the project at present: the learning time. I don't think that this will be really solved short of fixed size small chunks. But we have some way to go before we can do that; I don't think we should do it before 0.6. > > | And as for never bringing any alternatives...yeah, right. I remember > clearly > | I made a whole list of suggestions and alternatives for improving the > | end-user experience. Seems that memory is very selective. Why, only a few > | days ago, I pointed to an error in the uninstaller. But hey, feel free to > | ignore all that, and say I whine (not without reason in any case) about > the > | fact that freenet still sucks for the most part, mostly because of bad > | directions that have been taken. Didn't I suggest to go for UDP and small > | chunks, and leave the NGR (that, after all this time, still hasn't > actually > | proved it worked) if the simulations don't clearly show a benefit? Yes, I > | did. But that, I suppose, is rapidly forgotten, even it's exactly the > | alternatives that you claim I never gave. It's easier to say I 'just > whine', > | so you can regard me as a troll, instead of contemplating if I don't have > | valid points. > > Pointing out errors and making valid suggestions is a different thing. As > for > going for UDP, this actually would have made it worse. I know you suggested > it to push holes through NAT routers, but this doesn't work on most routers > here. And this for a very simple reason, almost all (yes even the low end > cheap trash ones) routers you can get here have full SPI. So it isn't > possible > to push a hole into their NAT, what's even worse is that the cheaper ones > have SPI, but only allow to open or redirect TCP ports, not UPD ports. So > going > to UDP would have ruled out users with one of these routers, even if they > knew > how to open/forward the listen port. The only thing that might help with > this > is to support UPNP. But it wouldn't change much, because ppl always get told > that UPNP is a security risk, and they tend to believe it and disable it. There are a lot of different ways to support hole-punching through firewalls. Simultaneous connect is one option, UP&P is another, UDP is a third. Some of these will eventually be implemented, but are not a priority at the moment. > > As for small chunks, IIRC it was suggested by Toad not by you. You only > agreed > that it might be usefull, just like I did. > > And I also did run a node pre NGR, and I saw a great improvement when > switching > it over to NGR last year. Really? Interesting... > > | In neither case it validates deleting my account, so that I now would have > | to change all references and links to it into new ones, if people want to > | contact me via the site or the wiki I run. Oh, yes, but that's all not a > | 'valid contribution', that's right. > > Oh, how bad. You have to edit some lines of HTML or change some entrys in a > DB, > this will be the end of the world. :-P -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
"Some guys talked about putting things [discussions?] onto the correct mailing lists.. does that [discussion] really fit into [this list]? Just a question. Maybe you should do [this flame-war or debate] by private messages. I don't like the feelings here, even if I'm not an official member with a freenetproject.org address. Doing [flamewars] in public is not professional." Does that make more sense? On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 11:47:01AM -0500, Nicholas Sturm wrote: > I need a translator for this. I don't claim to speak, read or write > anything but American English -- corrupted by living in a few too many > different sites in United States of America. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: BlueStar88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 12/1/2004 1:21:06 PM > > Subject: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out > of > > > > Hummm... some guys talked 'bout putting things in the correct ML.. > > does that all really fit into 'support' ? > > > > Just a question. > > > > May you should do that by PM. I don't like that feelings here, even > > i'm not an official member with a freenet.org address. Doing such > > things in public is not professional. > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > ___ > > Support mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > Unsubscribe at > http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 01:27:55AM +0100, Newsbyte wrote: > "Newsbyte: Go back to i2p if you like it that much, or try to give some > real critics instead of just posting polemic and sarcasmic whine messages." > > That is a stupid remark, and you know it. For someone (no pun intended) that > says I should say valuable things, you don't set the good example. > > I've made the comparison between I2P and freenet, and they both have value, > as I said in the past. I agree that the level of whining has increased, but > that's mostly due to the fact that being diplomatic and giving alternatives > doesn't actually do one iota neither, while after 4 years (yes, I've been > follow the lists for so long) Freenet today isn't much better (in the > endusers sense) then it was in the 0.4 days. That is simply not true, and you know it. Remember the DataStoreBug? Freenet has never worked _really_ well, of course, which is why we need to continue to develop it, but the DSB dominated network performance for around a year. The network was still usable, but it was pretty bad, and we lost a lot of users due to it. > > The truth is, I *do* annoy people, and I'm well aware of that, but mostly I concur! You do annoy people, and I'm aware of that too! > it's because they know it *is* true and I do have a point. Hah, freenet > working fast? Well, indeed, if you have T1 line or something like the other > poster said. But normal users often have a different impression, and even No, the other poster talked about it working okay on DSL. It works okay for me on cable too, although I _am_ a seednodes source, which may have some influence on my position in the network. > when noobs come tell it on the maillist themselves, it is still being > refuted by some coders. I've been inserting my flog not long ago, it took me > one hour...do you think I invent this? I have no idea why you got so many RNFs. These may be because of the node being new? You did not tell us how many connections you had at the time, despite being asked. But the timeouts were likely caused by FIW being impatient. And we have a lot of feedback saying that inserts DO work better. CofE hasn't updated his site, but he does say on TFE that it is "working out well for me". > > And as for never bringing any alternatives...yeah, right. I remember clearly > I made a whole list of suggestions and alternatives for improving the > end-user experience. Seems that memory is very selective. Why, only a few > days ago, I pointed to an error in the uninstaller. But hey, feel free to > ignore all that, and say I whine (not without reason in any case) about the > fact that freenet still sucks for the most part, mostly because of bad You do whine. Sometimes you also make constructive suggestions. Sometimes you make suggestions that you see as constructive that are in fact simply trolling, such as the idea that we abandon most of the codebase in favour of I2P, made worse by the fact that jrand0m has told me that i2p is not ready for freenet's scale yet (during a discussion on premix routing), a point I have made to you on at least one occasion. > directions that have been taken. Didn't I suggest to go for UDP and small > chunks, and leave the NGR (that, after all this time, still hasn't actually Everyone suggested small chunks. I don't think you were the first person to suggest it. > proved it worked) if the simulations don't clearly show a benefit? Yes, I > did. But that, I suppose, is rapidly forgotten, even it's exactly the > alternatives that you claim I never gave. It's easier to say I 'just whine', > so you can regard me as a troll, instead of contemplating if I don't have > valid points. > > In neither case it validates deleting my account, so that I now would have > to change all references and links to it into new ones, if people want to > contact me via the site or the wiki I run. Oh, yes, but that's all not a > 'valid contribution', that's right. You cannot have an @freenetproject.org account because you cannot be trusted not to use it for canvassing for funding FOR OTHER PROJECTS. Specifically I2P. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 01:33:28AM +, Clueless wrote: > On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:37:52 +0100, Someone wrote: > > >Even on ADSL it isn't so slow. Shure it is much slower than browsing a > >normal Website. But this I do expect when the data has to pass through > >multiple nodes, with maybe even some ISDN or 56K users in the chain. > > I guess it depends on how long you had Freenet running, and how big the data > store is. On the first day, it was almost unusable for me. That has generally been true of freenet in the past, unfortunately. We have made some progress, but nodes not working well for newbies is expected. > > Now it's better, although as I write this, all I get is "The network is busy, > please try again later" while trying to download FUQID, a program one seems to > absolutely need to download from Freenet... Heh. That's called an RNF. It stands for "Route Not Found". And no, you don't need FUQID to download files from freenet; with a well established node you can download a lot just by the web interface (set the retries to 50 on the splitfile download forms). RNFs seem to have been on the rise recently for some unclear reason, but there are less than there used to be.. normally you get RNFs because you don't have enough connections, or because your node is overloaded.. I know you have plenty of connections... > > The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. A lot of people are > probably giving up after a few hours because they don't feel 'geeky' enough. Very probably. Anything that learns can't start up instantly. We've tried to improve it though, and maybe we can get a bit further with that. And of course, the overall network performance is a lot lower than it ought to be. > > For a start, I think it would be good to have a current version of the > important > programs on the http://www.freenetproject.org/index.php?page=download page. Possibly. But if we distributed Frost, for example, then we get a lot closer to "filesharing", which may have legal ramifications - especially with Frost's current initial boards selection! -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Newsbyte schrieb: | I've made the comparison between I2P and freenet, and they both have value, | as I said in the past. I agree that the level of whining has increased, but | that's mostly due to the fact that being diplomatic and giving alternatives | doesn't actually do one iota neither, while after 4 years (yes, I've been | follow the lists for so long) Freenet today isn't much better (in the | endusers sense) then it was in the 0.4 days. Now that's not true, I'm using freenet since 0.3 and there have been great improvements to usability, speed and resource usage. | The truth is, I *do* annoy people, and I'm well aware of that, but mostly | it's because they know it *is* true and I do have a point. Hah, freenet | working fast? Well, indeed, if you have T1 line or something like the other | poster said. But normal users often have a different impression, and even | when noobs come tell it on the maillist themselves, it is still being | refuted by some coders. I've been inserting my flog not long ago, it took me | one hour...do you think I invent this? I don't have a T1. My node has a hard bandwith limit of 30 kByte/sec down and 8 kByte/sec up, this limit is enforced by the switch the machine is connected to, so freenet can't break them. That's far away from a T1. ~From your posts I guess you haven't been running a stable node for some time, then installed a new one and tried to insert your flog the same day. Then it doesn't suprise me that it took quite some time. Let your node run a week with frost (to train it) and you will see a great improvement, shure a week is a long time, but if you take in mind that it has to learn a whole network and find some good routes/nodes it's not that much. Since build 5099 I see specialization on my node and insert speed is very good. I currently run 4 freesites, the smallest about 100kB, the biggest nearly 30MB. The smallest is usually inserted within 10 Minutes. The biggest takes between 4 to 6 hours, this isn't too long for the amount of bandwith my node is allowed to use. | And as for never bringing any alternatives...yeah, right. I remember clearly | I made a whole list of suggestions and alternatives for improving the | end-user experience. Seems that memory is very selective. Why, only a few | days ago, I pointed to an error in the uninstaller. But hey, feel free to | ignore all that, and say I whine (not without reason in any case) about the | fact that freenet still sucks for the most part, mostly because of bad | directions that have been taken. Didn't I suggest to go for UDP and small | chunks, and leave the NGR (that, after all this time, still hasn't actually | proved it worked) if the simulations don't clearly show a benefit? Yes, I | did. But that, I suppose, is rapidly forgotten, even it's exactly the | alternatives that you claim I never gave. It's easier to say I 'just whine', | so you can regard me as a troll, instead of contemplating if I don't have | valid points. Pointing out errors and making valid suggestions is a different thing. As for going for UDP, this actually would have made it worse. I know you suggested it to push holes through NAT routers, but this doesn't work on most routers here. And this for a very simple reason, almost all (yes even the low end cheap trash ones) routers you can get here have full SPI. So it isn't possible to push a hole into their NAT, what's even worse is that the cheaper ones have SPI, but only allow to open or redirect TCP ports, not UPD ports. So going to UDP would have ruled out users with one of these routers, even if they knew how to open/forward the listen port. The only thing that might help with this is to support UPNP. But it wouldn't change much, because ppl always get told that UPNP is a security risk, and they tend to believe it and disable it. As for small chunks, IIRC it was suggested by Toad not by you. You only agreed that it might be usefull, just like I did. And I also did run a node pre NGR, and I saw a great improvement when switching it over to NGR last year. | In neither case it validates deleting my account, so that I now would have | to change all references and links to it into new ones, if people want to | contact me via the site or the wiki I run. Oh, yes, but that's all not a | 'valid contribution', that's right. Oh, how bad. You have to edit some lines of HTML or change some entrys in a DB, this will be the end of the world. :-P -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBrrw15Sa8EyIJhugRAkmrAJ4qUsKE/W+3kVP0GK89VNd+UR9nMwCghvdv 9mRM7JJEsURjoWj6mh4HS60= =chit -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
ML = Mailing List PM = Private Message On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:27:05 -0500, Nicholas Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No flames here, but I did not understand the message and I don't > have the advantage of analyzing on the basis of other language > forms. I suspect it was the symbols that left me in no-get-it land. -- "I might not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it!" ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
No flames here, but I did not understand the message and I don't have the advantage of analyzing on the basis of other language forms. I suspect it was the symbols that left me in no-get-it land. > [Original Message] > From: Newsbyte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/1/2004 5:54:36 PM > Subject: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of > > "I was just going to say, that flamewars on project support > mailing-lists are not professional and should better be done by > private mail." > > Maybe. But that's difficult to do if you are asked to respond but told your > email is going directly going to the bin. > > Besides, when talking about non-professionalism on the lists, I've seen > worse. ;-) > > I concur with the rest of your post. > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Thanks for your help. I assume that to mean you did not have something important to say to anyone except the person you were answering. I still need a translator. I did not understand some of the abbreviation, or that was my presumption. I do read all message that look like they are using English words, but in this case the choice or sequencing of the tokens left me guessing in two many segments. But, nothing tried, nothing gained. Have a good day in German. I neglect to attempt writing in languages that I did not learn before the age of seventy. > [Original Message] > From: BlueStar88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/1/2004 2:23:56 PM > Subject: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of > > Nicholas Sturm wrote: > > I need a translator for this. I don't claim to speak, read or write > > anything but American English -- corrupted by living in a few too many > > different sites in United States of America. > > Do that in error free german and we can discuss about. > > Not all people on your computer are natural english speaking. I'm > trying my best, but sorry, i forgot, you US guys like to tend to > think there are only US guys around with the highest level of > language evolution and the rest are non-developed 3rd world people. > Another flamewar is going to begin.. baahh ;-) > > I was just going to say, that flamewars on project support > mailing-lists are not professional and should better be done by > private mail. > > And that is just and only a suggestion. > > > > Sincerely > > > > > PS: By the way .. i have some difficulties to understand the last > part of your sentence above.. but that's my problem i think > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Why is it only the "clueless" new user who's talking about Freenet on this Freenet mailing list right now? -todd Quoting Clueless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:37:52 +0100, Someone wrote: > > >Even on ADSL it isn't so slow. Shure it is much slower than browsing a > >normal Website. But this I do expect when the data has to pass through > >multiple nodes, with maybe even some ISDN or 56K users in the chain. > > I guess it depends on how long you had Freenet running, and how big the data > store is. On the first day, it was almost unusable for me. > > Now it's better, although as I write this, all I get is "The network is busy, > please try again later" while trying to download FUQID, a program one seems > to > absolutely need to download from Freenet... > > The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. A lot of people are > probably giving up after a few hours because they don't feel 'geeky' enough. > > For a start, I think it would be good to have a current version of the > important > programs on the http://www.freenetproject.org/index.php?page=download page. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:37:52 +0100, Someone wrote: >Even on ADSL it isn't so slow. Shure it is much slower than browsing a >normal Website. But this I do expect when the data has to pass through >multiple nodes, with maybe even some ISDN or 56K users in the chain. I guess it depends on how long you had Freenet running, and how big the data store is. On the first day, it was almost unusable for me. Now it's better, although as I write this, all I get is "The network is busy, please try again later" while trying to download FUQID, a program one seems to absolutely need to download from Freenet... The whole experience just isn't very newbie-friendly. A lot of people are probably giving up after a few hours because they don't feel 'geeky' enough. For a start, I think it would be good to have a current version of the important programs on the http://www.freenetproject.org/index.php?page=download page. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
"Newsbyte: Go back to i2p if you like it that much, or try to give some real critics instead of just posting polemic and sarcasmic whine messages." That is a stupid remark, and you know it. For someone (no pun intended) that says I should say valuable things, you don't set the good example. I've made the comparison between I2P and freenet, and they both have value, as I said in the past. I agree that the level of whining has increased, but that's mostly due to the fact that being diplomatic and giving alternatives doesn't actually do one iota neither, while after 4 years (yes, I've been follow the lists for so long) Freenet today isn't much better (in the endusers sense) then it was in the 0.4 days. The truth is, I *do* annoy people, and I'm well aware of that, but mostly it's because they know it *is* true and I do have a point. Hah, freenet working fast? Well, indeed, if you have T1 line or something like the other poster said. But normal users often have a different impression, and even when noobs come tell it on the maillist themselves, it is still being refuted by some coders. I've been inserting my flog not long ago, it took me one hour...do you think I invent this? And as for never bringing any alternatives...yeah, right. I remember clearly I made a whole list of suggestions and alternatives for improving the end-user experience. Seems that memory is very selective. Why, only a few days ago, I pointed to an error in the uninstaller. But hey, feel free to ignore all that, and say I whine (not without reason in any case) about the fact that freenet still sucks for the most part, mostly because of bad directions that have been taken. Didn't I suggest to go for UDP and small chunks, and leave the NGR (that, after all this time, still hasn't actually proved it worked) if the simulations don't clearly show a benefit? Yes, I did. But that, I suppose, is rapidly forgotten, even it's exactly the alternatives that you claim I never gave. It's easier to say I 'just whine', so you can regard me as a troll, instead of contemplating if I don't have valid points. In neither case it validates deleting my account, so that I now would have to change all references and links to it into new ones, if people want to contact me via the site or the wiki I run. Oh, yes, but that's all not a 'valid contribution', that's right. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Phillip Hutchings schrieb: | On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:19:59 +0100, Newsbyte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | [cut for brevity] | | In my time watching this list, which is well over a year now, I don't | actually recall you making a valid contribution to the project. I do | tend to read your emails, though it can be a struggle at times, and | all I normally see is this: | * Freenet's too slow | * I don't like (frequently Ian) | * Whine whine whine Yes, that the same impression I got from Newsbyte and it's the reason why I tend to ignore his posts, just like I do with other troll posts. | Now, personally I don't find Freenet slow. That may be because my node | is sitting on a basically unmetered 10Mbps half duplex connection, but | it may not. I take the goals of the project in to consideration, and | waiting 2-3 minutes for a text document to download isn't that bad. Even on ADSL it isn't so slow. Shure it is much slower than browsing a normal Website. But this I do expect when the data has to pass through multiple nodes, with maybe even some ISDN or 56K users in the chain. Newsbyte: Go back to i2p if you like it that much, or try to give some real critics instead of just posting polemic and sarcasmic whine messages. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBrke/5Sa8EyIJhugRAs7jAJwKJYLjMX4Nk8lwVVHM6wjnQbGJHwCePrHu DGdByVBvHuP/xwNtk+BtxLQ= =tfcI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
"I was just going to say, that flamewars on project support mailing-lists are not professional and should better be done by private mail." Maybe. But that's difficult to do if you are asked to respond but told your email is going directly going to the bin. Besides, when talking about non-professionalism on the lists, I've seen worse. ;-) I concur with the rest of your post. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Nicholas Sturm wrote: I need a translator for this. I don't claim to speak, read or write anything but American English -- corrupted by living in a few too many different sites in United States of America. Do that in error free german and we can discuss about. Not all people on your computer are natural english speaking. I'm trying my best, but sorry, i forgot, you US guys like to tend to think there are only US guys around with the highest level of language evolution and the rest are non-developed 3rd world people. Another flamewar is going to begin.. baahh ;-) I was just going to say, that flamewars on project support mailing-lists are not professional and should better be done by private mail. And that is just and only a suggestion. Sincerely PS: By the way .. i have some difficulties to understand the last part of your sentence above.. but that's my problem i think ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
I need a translator for this. I don't claim to speak, read or write anything but American English -- corrupted by living in a few too many different sites in United States of America. > [Original Message] > From: BlueStar88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/1/2004 1:21:06 PM > Subject: [freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of > > Hummm... some guys talked 'bout putting things in the correct ML.. > does that all really fit into 'support' ? > > Just a question. > > May you should do that by PM. I don't like that feelings here, even > i'm not an official member with a freenet.org address. Doing such > things in public is not professional. > > > > > Sincerely > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: [Tech] Is it always this slow?/kicked out of
Hummm... some guys talked 'bout putting things in the correct ML.. does that all really fit into 'support' ? Just a question. May you should do that by PM. I don't like that feelings here, even i'm not an official member with a freenet.org address. Doing such things in public is not professional. Sincerely ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
