Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Someone wrote: Troed Sångberg schrieb: I'm myself on 8/1 ADSL with a static IP, and I just got my VDSL modem in the mail so in 1-2 weeks I should be up on ~13-20Mbit both ways ... (depends on the distance to the station). Cost? ¤43/month. No traffic limits. Home servers allowed. Woa, I wish something like this would be available here. The best you can get is DSL with 3 Mbit/s down and 384 Kbit/s up without traffic limits. This will cost around 100 euro per month and home servers are not disallowed, but also not liked very much. Of course you will have the normal 24 hour disconnect also, and this speed is only available if your home is within a Range of ~2 kilometers of the DSLAM. In my home the fastest DSL connection I can get is 1 Mbit/s down and 128 KBit/s up, this still costs around 60 euro per month with unlimited traffic. VDSL isn't used here, you can have Modem/ISDN or ADSL for private users. The next bigger thing are leased lines with 2 MBit up and down, but these cost way more money and you won't get unlimited traffic. In China nowadays, we usually get a 100MB LAN connection if you apply for broadband, although the IP address isn't guaranteed to be fixed, it's relatively static, i.e. doesn't change in weeks or months. And all these cost for only about 9 euro. -- Best regards, Weiliang Zhang Department of Computing Imperial College London, UK ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Impact and motives? was Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Okay, impact on Freenet: - Every N hours (6, 12, 24), a German node will lose all its connections. It will then reestablish them, as long as they are not German nodes which are simultaneously broken. QUESTION: are they all recycled at once? Surely not, for obvious reasons. So hopefully it'll just be a matter of reestablishing all the connections. Reconnecting will however take significant time... - When the interruption occurs, all connected nodes will not only lose their connections, but they will also not be able to reconnect. So you are relying on the server reconnecting to the clients. Motives? Presumably there isn't enough demand for static IP addresses for ISPs to compete on it in the basic package... and the minority who do want static IP pay so much that it is worth the extra network administration, hardware, etc, to implement the below and inconvenience the majority by breaking all their TCP connections every 6-24 hours? On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 05:12:08PM +0200, Someone wrote: > Toad schrieb: > > >SIX HOURS? Woah... my address gets changed at most once a month... > > The longest time any of the major ISPs for DSL/Dialup allow you to > have an IP is 24 hours, after that you'll get disconnected, no matter > what comes, and get a new IP after reconnecting. There are some smaller > ISPs that only allow between 6 and 12 hour without a forced disconnect. > There are ISPs that give special offers for fixed IPs, but this costs > quite some additional money and you won't get unlimited bandwith from > them. > > >Yeah, the network needs to work pretty well for ARKs to be useful, and > >anyway they operate over too long a timescale normally. Thus I never > >reimplemented them for unstable. > > Hmmm, but something like this would be needed. > > >Dyndns is mainly needed for nodes behind NATs. A solution has been > >half-coded, will be completed eventually. > > But it also helps with changing IPs, if I don't use a dyndns on my node it > takes ages after a forced disconnect for other nodes to reconnect to mine. > With dyndns it's a matter of some minutes. > > >Possibly. What's typical stats on stable? > > The machine my nodes runs on is currently down (the IBM hard disk died), > so I can't give exact numbers :-(. But from previous observations I can > say that with using dyndns I had around 130 to 140 connections after > around 2 hours from which 30 to 50 outgoing connections and the others > incoming connections were. So my node always depended on incoming conns. > > The IPs in the routing table changed quite fast and only very few of them > stayed longer then 1 day. > > ___ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at > http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 05:12:08PM +0200, Someone wrote: > Toad schrieb: > > >SIX HOURS? Woah... my address gets changed at most once a month... > > The longest time any of the major ISPs for DSL/Dialup allow you to > have an IP is 24 hours, after that you'll get disconnected, no matter > what comes, and get a new IP after reconnecting. There are some smaller > ISPs that only allow between 6 and 12 hour without a forced disconnect. > There are ISPs that give special offers for fixed IPs, but this costs > quite some additional money and you won't get unlimited bandwith from > them. This is all very perplexing. The biggest economy in Europe has the worst internet access in Western Europe... the second biggest (the UK) is somewhere in the middle - no crazy enforced restrictions, but bandwidth is mediocre, especially uplink bandwidth. Anyway, everyone add Germany to your list of Countries Not To Emigrate To. ;) > > >Yeah, the network needs to work pretty well for ARKs to be useful, and > >anyway they operate over too long a timescale normally. Thus I never > >reimplemented them for unstable. > > Hmmm, but something like this would be needed. > > >Dyndns is mainly needed for nodes behind NATs. A solution has been > >half-coded, will be completed eventually. > > But it also helps with changing IPs, if I don't use a dyndns on my node it > takes ages after a forced disconnect for other nodes to reconnect to mine. > With dyndns it's a matter of some minutes. > > >Possibly. What's typical stats on stable? > > The machine my nodes runs on is currently down (the IBM hard disk died), > so I can't give exact numbers :-(. But from previous observations I can > say that with using dyndns I had around 130 to 140 connections after > around 2 hours from which 30 to 50 outgoing connections and the others > incoming connections were. So my node always depended on incoming conns. > > The IPs in the routing table changed quite fast and only very few of them > stayed longer then 1 day. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 05:48:53PM +0200, Someone wrote: > Troed S?ngberg schrieb: > > >I'm myself on 8/1 ADSL with a static IP, and I just got my VDSL modem > >in the mail so in 1-2 weeks I should be up on ~13-20Mbit both ways ... > >(depends on the distance to the station). > > > >Cost? > > > >?43/month. > > > >No traffic limits. Home servers allowed. > > Woa, I wish something like this would be available here. The best you can > get > is DSL with 3 Mbit/s down and 384 Kbit/s up without traffic limits. This > will > cost around 100 euro per month and home servers are not disallowed, but also > not liked very much. Hmm. I haven't found anything with more than 256kbps uplink, short of SDSL here. Also the AUPs generally explicitly disallow servers used by other people. Mine stipulates a ridiculous maximum simultaneous connections of 10. Essentially this means if they get annoyed they can kick you without any legal ramifications; I've never had any problems, despite running 2-3 freenet nodes much of the time, and 1 node 90%+ of the time. > Of course you will have the normal 24 hour disconnect Strange. I suppose you have different "fashions" in different countries - one ISP realizes a new way to f*ck the customer, and then the rest follow suit to prevent competition driving down prices! Or do you only have one DSL ISP, by any chance? > also, and this speed is only available if your home is within a Range of ~2 > kilometers of the DSLAM. In my home the fastest DSL connection I can get is > 1 Mbit/s down and 128 KBit/s up, this still costs around 60 euro per month > with unlimited traffic. > > VDSL isn't used here, you can have Modem/ISDN or ADSL for private users. The > next bigger thing are leased lines with 2 MBit up and down, but these cost > way more money and you won't get unlimited traffic. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 05:21:19PM +0200, Someone wrote: > Michael R. Stork schrieb: > > >It depends on when they do system maintenance. As long as their system > >is up, and you stay connected, you should keep renewing the same IP. > > No, it is not system maintenance here in germany. In fact it's part of the > contract with the ISPs that you will get forcefully disconnected at least > every 24 hours, even on DSL (which uses PPPoE here, so it actually is just > a faster dialup connection). There are no IP leases and you can't influence > what IP you get. This doesn't have a technically reason, its more due > political > and economical reasons. Uhm, what political and economic reasons? I mean if they don't like servers, then they'd NAT you. > And AFAIK there are more european countries in which > it is handled the same way. > > To say it clear, a fixed IP (even when it is only fixed for a week) is > something > special you have to pay for in germany, and no ISP will give you something > for > free if he can actually charge a good ammount of extra money for it. Capitalism is alive and well in the UK, and yet our dynamic IP addresses usually stay the same for weeks on end... even on the cheap domestic cable setups... -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Troed Sångberg schrieb: I'm myself on 8/1 ADSL with a static IP, and I just got my VDSL modem in the mail so in 1-2 weeks I should be up on ~13-20Mbit both ways ... (depends on the distance to the station). Cost? ¤43/month. No traffic limits. Home servers allowed. Woa, I wish something like this would be available here. The best you can get is DSL with 3 Mbit/s down and 384 Kbit/s up without traffic limits. This will cost around 100 euro per month and home servers are not disallowed, but also not liked very much. Of course you will have the normal 24 hour disconnect also, and this speed is only available if your home is within a Range of ~2 kilometers of the DSLAM. In my home the fastest DSL connection I can get is 1 Mbit/s down and 128 KBit/s up, this still costs around 60 euro per month with unlimited traffic. VDSL isn't used here, you can have Modem/ISDN or ADSL for private users. The next bigger thing are leased lines with 2 MBit up and down, but these cost way more money and you won't get unlimited traffic. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:21:19 +0200, Someone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To say it clear, a fixed IP (even when it is only fixed for a week) is something special you have to pay for in germany, and no ISP will give you something for free if he can actually charge a good ammount of extra money for it. ... just to balance things out then: In Sweden it's uncommon to get a new IP that often, you can usually hold on to it for quite some time. The second biggest DSL-operator (Bostream) also offers static IPs for several of their services - no extra charge (only if you want additional ones). I'm myself on 8/1 ADSL with a static IP, and I just got my VDSL modem in the mail so in 1-2 weeks I should be up on ~13-20Mbit both ways ... (depends on the distance to the station). Cost? ¤43/month. No traffic limits. Home servers allowed. regards, Mr RubItIn ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Michael R. Stork schrieb: It depends on when they do system maintenance. As long as their system is up, and you stay connected, you should keep renewing the same IP. No, it is not system maintenance here in germany. In fact it's part of the contract with the ISPs that you will get forcefully disconnected at least every 24 hours, even on DSL (which uses PPPoE here, so it actually is just a faster dialup connection). There are no IP leases and you can't influence what IP you get. This doesn't have a technically reason, its more due political and economical reasons. And AFAIK there are more european countries in which it is handled the same way. To say it clear, a fixed IP (even when it is only fixed for a week) is something special you have to pay for in germany, and no ISP will give you something for free if he can actually charge a good ammount of extra money for it. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Toad wrote: On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 10:31:41AM +0200, Jano wrote: Latest stable, windows 2000, java 1.4.2: After a restart and seeing that I have these peers: Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 13 (12/1/200) OUCH! Have you reseeded recently? In any case if you leave it running for a day or so it should accumulate more... a reasonable number is 100+ connections... In fact I had installed a fresh node in a new computer. I'll wait some time to see if all goes better. But why aren't any of these 13 nodes being tried? ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Toad schrieb: SIX HOURS? Woah... my address gets changed at most once a month... The longest time any of the major ISPs for DSL/Dialup allow you to have an IP is 24 hours, after that you'll get disconnected, no matter what comes, and get a new IP after reconnecting. There are some smaller ISPs that only allow between 6 and 12 hour without a forced disconnect. There are ISPs that give special offers for fixed IPs, but this costs quite some additional money and you won't get unlimited bandwith from them. Yeah, the network needs to work pretty well for ARKs to be useful, and anyway they operate over too long a timescale normally. Thus I never reimplemented them for unstable. Hmmm, but something like this would be needed. Dyndns is mainly needed for nodes behind NATs. A solution has been half-coded, will be completed eventually. But it also helps with changing IPs, if I don't use a dyndns on my node it takes ages after a forced disconnect for other nodes to reconnect to mine. With dyndns it's a matter of some minutes. Possibly. What's typical stats on stable? The machine my nodes runs on is currently down (the IBM hard disk died), so I can't give exact numbers :-(. But from previous observations I can say that with using dyndns I had around 130 to 140 connections after around 2 hours from which 30 to 50 outgoing connections and the others incoming connections were. So my node always depended on incoming conns. The IPs in the routing table changed quite fast and only very few of them stayed longer then 1 day. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Toad wrote: SIX HOURS? Woah... my address gets changed at most once a month... It depends on when they do system maintenance. As long as their system is up, and you stay connected, you should keep renewing the same IP. AFIK most cable/dsl ISPs give you a 3-7 day lease on an IP. If you're still on at the end, it's generally just renewed, and most routers will let you release/renew your IP to keep the lease current. If they bring their server down, then you probably won't get the same IP back when it comes back up. Also, if you're off-line when your IP expires, it won't renew until you're back on, so again you'll likely to get a new one. Mike S. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Re: RNFs
On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 03:49:46PM +0200, Someone wrote: > Toad schrieb: > > >OUCH! Have you reseeded recently? In any case if you leave it running > >for a day or so it should accumulate more... a reasonable number is 100+ > >connections... > > I found that around 30 connections or normal and 60 connections is a really > good number around 1 hour after restarting my stable node. If my node was > down more then 2 days (this happens from time to time) I have to reseed or > I would need more than 6 hours to get more than 20 connections to other > nodes. > > I think this is related to two things: > > 1. There are many stable nodes behind NATs or (personal) Firewalls that > aren't > configured right, so they can't accept incoming connections. > > 2. In countries like here in germany you don't have fixed IPs and your > internet > connection will get forcefully disconnected after something between 6 and 24 > hours. So most of the nodes here change their IPs really often. AFAIK SIX HOURS? Woah... my address gets changed at most once a month... > freenet > doesn't use ARKs anymore, and ppl concerned about their privacy aren't > really Yeah, the network needs to work pretty well for ARKs to be useful, and anyway they operate over too long a timescale normally. Thus I never reimplemented them for unstable. > into using dyndns services. So if the node was down for a longer time most Dyndns is mainly needed for nodes behind NATs. A solution has been half-coded, will be completed eventually. > IPs > of the nodes in its routing table are no longer valid and it can't connect > to > many other nodes. Additionally it's own IP might have changed, so the node > won't > get many incoming connections eighter, because the other nodes don't know > the > new IP of it. Possibly. What's typical stats on stable? -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: RNFs
Toad schrieb: OUCH! Have you reseeded recently? In any case if you leave it running for a day or so it should accumulate more... a reasonable number is 100+ connections... I found that around 30 connections or normal and 60 connections is a really good number around 1 hour after restarting my stable node. If my node was down more then 2 days (this happens from time to time) I have to reseed or I would need more than 6 hours to get more than 20 connections to other nodes. I think this is related to two things: 1. There are many stable nodes behind NATs or (personal) Firewalls that aren't configured right, so they can't accept incoming connections. 2. In countries like here in germany you don't have fixed IPs and your internet connection will get forcefully disconnected after something between 6 and 24 hours. So most of the nodes here change their IPs really often. AFAIK freenet doesn't use ARKs anymore, and ppl concerned about their privacy aren't really into using dyndns services. So if the node was down for a longer time most IPs of the nodes in its routing table are no longer valid and it can't connect to many other nodes. Additionally it's own IP might have changed, so the node won't get many incoming connections eighter, because the other nodes don't know the new IP of it. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
