Re: Seamonkey BUG id=759749

[Ron Hunter]

On 12/23/2014 6:19 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 23/12/14 02:56, Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel wrote on 19/12/2014 10:09:

On 19/12/14 03:20, Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel wrote on 18/12/2014 10:14:

On 18/12/14 10:37, Ray_Net wrote:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759749

shows RESOLVED-FIXED

But i still experienced it ...


https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d24c6e5f-98fb-491d-9e3d-c7d472141217






Ray, the bug shows it happening to three different people in the past
three months or so. Next time it happens, can you try to get an
about:crashes report and post it here or on the bug report. See if
that gets the bug re-opened!!


What do you want exactly ?  Because my posted link is issued from
about:crashes.

Is this info
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d24c6e5f-98fb-491d-9e3d-c7d472141217


not enough ?


That's is the line in about:crashes :
bp-d24c6e5f-98fb-491d-9e3d-c7d47214121718/12/201400:29
And clicking on it gives the link i have posted.


I can reproduce relatively easely, i just have to move on the roads
in a
GoogelMaps StreetView window.


DOH!! Yes, that the sort of link I was looking for!! Missed it first
time.

Maybe one of the Devs will drop by!!


Devs are not interested to solve bugs ... just interested to create new
gadgets 


The Devs are doing this for free!! They also have paying jobs *and*
families *and* lives (not necessarily ranked in that order!!).

Do we have any right to complain about them??

Daniel
(Cross-posted to m.gen!)


 Yes.  Certainly we do.
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Re: PDF

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/13/2014 8:42 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

I got an email with a PDF attachment.  When I right-click and choose
Open SM opens it in a browser window.  I have gone to Edit - Preferences
- Helper Applications and set PDF to open in Foxit Reader. SM is still
opening the file in the browser and, of course, it's all gibberish.
What's the secret to getting this to work? BTW, this just started
happening all of a sudden.



I believe there are more than one place you have to put the Foxit Reader 
in.  Also, is Foxit Reader set up to look for a call from SeaMonkey?


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Re: Cannot delete Google Chrome

[Ron Hunter]

On 7/31/2014 10:24 PM, Mort wrote:

W3BNR wrote:

You might also want to try a free program:
Wise Program Uninstaller - I've had it work when others failed.
http://www.wisecleaner.com/wiseuninstallerfree.html


Thanks for the new suggestion, which I shall soon act upon. It does get
to be time-consuming and frustrating, when companies shove their
software onto ones hard drive in sneaky manner and make it difficult to
delete it.

Mort


Another possible solution to getting rid of an unwanted program that 
won't uninstall from Windows, is to download a full install of the 
program, install that, then see if it appears in the Windows program 
list, and uninstall it.  This has worked for me several times in the past.


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Re: Large Files In Profile

[Ron Hunter]

On 6/21/2014 3:56 AM, Rob wrote:

Robert Kaiser  wrote:

Rob schrieb:

The reason why some of the .sqlite files are so darn large is partly
the silly pre-allocation that is done on them.


"Silly" is in the eye of the beholder. The preallocation makes write
access to the DB much faster. It's a tradeoff. The vast majority of
people have local profiles on their computer and their disk space is
huge and cheap, while their time probably isn't.

KaiRo


I would first thoroughly  the case where allocating disk space is
so slow that it is better to pre-allocate it before I would hardcode
such big pre-allocation increments in the software.  Even then I would
have put a pref in the code that could override the allocation increment
for cases I did not think about.

The people who think "disk space is huge and cheap" clearly have not
considered roaming profiles.  I forgive them that they forget about
a specific configuration they don't have on their home system, but not
that they keep holding on to it even after they have been informed about
the negative impact it has on others.

Fortunately Seamonkey has been phased out where I work, so I no longer
have to worry about issues like this.  But maybe other people still have.

Disk space, IS huge and cheap these days, however, compared to the speed 
of RAM and the CPU, it is rather SLOW.  That's why SSDs are becoming 
more popular as the price of the chips goes down.  I suspect that hard 
drives for personal computing will virtually disappear in a couple of years.


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Re: Stop Button - does not STOP anymore?

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/21/2014 5:43 PM, Gerry Hickman wrote:

Hi,

In the early days of Netscape 3, I remember being able to "stop" a web
page completely, as in no more HTTP requests, no more looping scripts
and no more frames of animation.

Many sites constantly generate new HTTP requests bombarding the user
with adverts, div based pop-ups, annoying sounds, videos, animation etc.

We need the stop button to actually STOP everything.

Most non-technical web users won't know (or care) what a stop button is,
so they won't care if it's changed.

In the current SM, the stop button does not seem to work.

Here's an example of a web site where you can test the issue. Let it run
for over a minute, and look at the status bar, the mouse pointer, and
the stop button itself (flashing).

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikileaks-reveal-name-mystery-country-having-all-phone-calls-tapped-by-nsa-1449284



That usually means it is doing auto-refresh on a very short interval.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/16/2014 5:16 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 16/05/14 02:47, Philip Taylor wrote:



Ed Mullen wrote:


[T]his history notes bugs that were fixed in different versions:




Quite correct -- there /were/ (a very small number of) bugs.  But Knuth
is punctilious in eliminating every bug reported, and if you study his
methodology you will see that he then rigorously searches the code for
any place where he might have made a similar error.  The claim was not
that "no body of code as complex as that of Seamonkey can be free of
error at its inception" but rather "no body of code as complex as that
of Seamonkey can be ever be free of bugs", which is a very different
claim indeed.

Philip Taylor


And the man has some confidence in his programming .

(From the file)
% A reward of $327.68 will be paid to the first finder of any remaining
bug.


Interesting figure.  Wonder how he came up with that...??

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 8:24 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 9:48 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Rufus wrote:

PhillipJones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from
using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting
for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I
can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed
before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the
complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further
development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as
the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not
like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and
rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Still Rather Complex to do Email Newsgroup Web Browsing ant one it
could
do FTP.



Not really...you write three routines, and one routine to drive them
all.

I used to do that with my engineering homework...I'd code each
assignment as a subroutine and as the semester went on I'd just choose
the function I needed form the previous assignment and write a
driver to
call them as needed to get the result for the next assignment.

My prof used to ask why I had to write such "fancy code"..."why don't
you just do the assignment".  He never caught on that by doing
things as
I had the assignments actually were getting easier as he gave them
out -
copy, cut, paste, script.



That's why he taught and, I suspect, you worked and made money.
Education vs. real world.  Academia vs. life.




That's why I like to see educators come into teaching after retiring
from business.  For a few years, they are great as they have real world
experience.  Then their experience grows less useful because the
technology changes, and they need to retire again.
That's why schools like to see their educators continue to work toward
higher degrees, or doing research...



There are severe financial impacts in the USA for going into teaching
after first having a career - you lose the entirety of your Social
Security benefit...because teachers don't pay Social Security tax and
the benefit is based on consecutive quarters to retirement.  So there's
a true dis-incentive...at least in the USA.

I found this out when my Dad retired - he was a teacher. I was stunned.

Hummm.  I subbed for 5 years.  No effect on my SS because I didn't start 
teaching until I was already on SS.


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Re: Unable to use a form with SM - ok with FireFox

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 7:21 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 05/15/2014 08:05 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote, On 16/05/2014 00:27:

On 05/15/2014 06:05 PM, EE wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Hello,
Another problem with SM.
Unable to type into a form.
Steps to reproduce:
1. go to http://www.stib-mivb.be/index.htm?l=fr
2. Click on the tab "Recherche d'itinéraire"
3. Then go in the middle of the page and click on the "Cliquer ici
pour
rechercher un itinéraire"
4. Type in the first zone (localité): anderlecht .. then try to
type in
the "Rue" zone ...
BUT if you are too long to do something, without having the time to
type: anderlecht 
you are switched to an error page where it's written:
---
Requête non complétée
Votre demande n'a pu être traitée. Veuillez réessayer.
---

With IE11, it work, but i have another problem rendering the form
unusable.
With FireFox 26.0 all goes well

SM version under Wiwdows7 is:
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:27.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/27.0 SeaMonkey/2.24
Build identifier: 20140203230027


Does not work for me with either FF 24esr or SeaMonkey.  It works only
with Safari.




Works with Adblock Plus disabled using SeaMonkey 2.25 and Firefox
29.0.1 for me.


BINGO ! AdBlock+ yeah !

TESTED OK - Many Thanks !


yw

That extension is becoming more of a pita than it is worth to me.

cbsnews.com is totally blank unless you disable ABP for that site.

I am sure that is because their whole site is one big advertising 
display, right?  No way around that, if you want to see their site, but 
that's about the last place I would go for news.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 8:01 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 15/05/2014 12:51, Philip Taylor told the world:


In 1975/6, one of my 3rd-year undergraduates in Computer Science wrote
a chess end-game solver; it ran in 8Kb.  Is there a programmer alive
today who could achieve the same in 8Mb, let alone 8Kb ?


Oh, a few. Mostly people who like assembler. Like Steve Gibson.


Doesn't C++ allow inline assembly code??
I used to enjoy coding in assembler.  Nothing like getting down there 
with bits, nibbles, and bytes..  Grin.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 7:36 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/15/2014 12:29 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/15/2014 10:36 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/15/2014 1:07 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 5:57 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:38 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:05 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Check the number of lines of code involved.



Bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Before the days of desktop
computers and client-server systems, I was a software test engineer on a
complex software system that ran on a main-frame.  This system went
operational about 1971 or 1972 and continued to evolve until it was shut
down in 1992.  Because the main-frame had a fixed memory size, much
effort was expended on ensuring that new features could be added without
increasing the amount of memory required.

Often, I was asked how big the system was.  We had a tool that would
provide the number of source-code statements as well as the size of the
compiled executables.  I guarded that tool to prevent naive managers
from using it.  After I learned that the customer (U.S. Air Force) was
interested in how much code they obtained for the money they spent, I
would release the results only under a cover memo that explained that
size was a very poor measure of value.


So you are saying bloat code is always flawless?  I miss the logic here.



NO!  I said bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Bloat is
inherently flawed.  Just because you have 20 GB of memory, 100 TB of
hard drive, and a 50 GHz processor does not mean you should ignore
efficiency and consume all available resources.


Why not?  You paid for them.  You planning to leave them for future
generations and don't want to wear them out?



I might have use for my hardware resources that are unknown to the
developer of an individual application.

I often more than one application at a time, some of which use
significant hardware resources.  For example, after doing backups of all
my hard drives -- segmented by Windows, non-Windows software, data
excluding photos, and photos -- I then encrypt the backup files and move
the results to an external hard drive.  At the same time, I might be
replying to E-mail or surfing the Web.  Encryption via OpenPGP is
processor-intensive.  Moving gigabyte files from an internal hard drive
to an external one is I/O-intensive.  E-mail and Web surfing are
network-intensive.  Oh yes, I forgot; sometimes while all this is going
on, I am also doing a system-wide anti-virus scan (processor- and
I/O-intensive).

I do not want bloatware impacting my attempt to have my PC doing
mutliple tasks.

Then don't use ABP, or don't open a lot of tabs.  There are always 
limits to available resources.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 10:51 AM, Philip Taylor wrote:



David E. Ross wrote:


NO!  I said bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Bloat is
inherently flawed.  Just because you have 20 GB of memory, 100 TB of
hard drive, and a 50 GHz processor does not mean you should ignore
efficiency and consume all available resources.


In 1975/6, one of my 3rd-year undergraduates in Computer Science wrote
a chess end-game solver; it ran in 8Kb.  Is there a programmer alive
today who could achieve the same in 8Mb, let alone 8Kb ?

Philip Taylor


Vastly different processors, too.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/15/2014 10:36 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/15/2014 1:07 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 5:57 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:38 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:05 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Check the number of lines of code involved.



Bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Before the days of desktop
computers and client-server systems, I was a software test engineer on a
complex software system that ran on a main-frame.  This system went
operational about 1971 or 1972 and continued to evolve until it was shut
down in 1992.  Because the main-frame had a fixed memory size, much
effort was expended on ensuring that new features could be added without
increasing the amount of memory required.

Often, I was asked how big the system was.  We had a tool that would
provide the number of source-code statements as well as the size of the
compiled executables.  I guarded that tool to prevent naive managers
from using it.  After I learned that the customer (U.S. Air Force) was
interested in how much code they obtained for the money they spent, I
would release the results only under a cover memo that explained that
size was a very poor measure of value.


So you are saying bloat code is always flawless?  I miss the logic here.



NO!  I said bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Bloat is
inherently flawed.  Just because you have 20 GB of memory, 100 TB of
hard drive, and a 50 GHz processor does not mean you should ignore
efficiency and consume all available resources.

Why not?  You paid for them.  You planning to leave them for future 
generations and don't want to wear them out?


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 9:48 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Rufus wrote:

PhillipJones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting
for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed
before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the
complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further
development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as
the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not
like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Still Rather Complex to do Email Newsgroup Web Browsing ant one it could
do FTP.



Not really...you write three routines, and one routine to drive them all.

I used to do that with my engineering homework...I'd code each
assignment as a subroutine and as the semester went on I'd just choose
the function I needed form the previous assignment and write a driver to
call them as needed to get the result for the next assignment.

My prof used to ask why I had to write such "fancy code"..."why don't
you just do the assignment".  He never caught on that by doing things as
I had the assignments actually were getting easier as he gave them out -
copy, cut, paste, script.



That's why he taught and, I suspect, you worked and made money.
Education vs. real world.  Academia vs. life.



That's why I like to see educators come into teaching after retiring 
from business.  For a few years, they are great as they have real world 
experience.  Then their experience grows less useful because the 
technology changes, and they need to retire again.
That's why schools like to see their educators continue to work toward 
higher degrees, or doing research...


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 6:16 PM, Trane Francks wrote:

On 5/15/14 4:31 AM +0900, Rufus wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 14/05/2014 16:05, Rufus told the world:


...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not
like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Actually, math stuff is CPU-intensive but not necessarily intrinsically
complex (although optimizations might add to it).



Depends on what you're doing I guess...I evaluate and disposition
quasi-realtime system software for a living...SM is pretty simple WRT to
what I work with.  I don't see SM doing anything that interdependent,
system-wise.


Working with externally-generated data, OTOH, is VERY complex, because
you have to deal with all the novel and creative ways people find to
*fuck up*.



SM is basically a front-end to a database...no hit against SM if people
generating the data that go into it screw up their data, but SM should
do what it does consistently and as error free with respect to it's
platform interface as a user would expect - and I see problems going
unaddressed in that regard, at least for Mac OS X.  Platform interface
requirements are pretty stable, generally speaking.


The biggest issue with regard to complexity is the sheer number of RFCs
that the code must correctly support. RFCs describe the behaviour, but
not the implementation. If you've ever coded anything bigger than, say,
5,000 lines of code in a single program, you soon get a grasp of how
quickly interdependencies can greatly complicate maintenance.



I think that most of the people who expect completely bug-free code 
don't understand the realities of coding, because they haven't ever done 
it themselves.  Worse, most software these days is the product of a 
number of people working together, and if one of them doesn't follow the 
standards, or makes a human error, then a subtle bug may be the result, 
causing trouble with another function that calls that routine.  It is 
somewhat close to impossible to have truly bug free code in any project 
over a few thousand lines.






Non-compliant HTML is just the tip of the iceberg. Then you have all the
Javascript attacks. And let's not forget that Seamonkey is also a mail
client... I remember seeing a whole series of blog postings explaining
why email is a difficult animal to tame... where is it... oh yes, here:

http://quetzalcoatal.blogspot.com.br/search/label/email-hard



I don't see non-compliant HTML as SM's problem really...and besides,


Of course, it's SM's problem. Poorly or intentionally malcrafted input
can cause segfaults and escalated privileges. SeaMonkey has the arduous
task of taking whatever comes in and hopefully displaying it in a manner
that pleases the end user, all while (hopefully) sanitizing the input
such that it doesn't cause failures. Because of the sheer
unpredictability of the input stream, input handling is a big, big
domain. The rendering engine spends a huge amount of its time evaluating
the sanity of the HTML being fed into it.


that's isn't really an issue I see or take any notice of as a *user* -
what I want fixed are UE/operation related problems...like getting
randomly prompted for my Master Password and trashing my Download and
session, or being told to stop using the Profile Manager to "solve" a
problem...or the short drawn drops which finally got fixed.  As a user
those are the sorts of things I can *see*, and what I can *see* matters
more to me as a user.


The problem with the profile manager startup bug is that it's been 2
years. Finding the original regression will be difficult. Good luck
finding a developer who'll want to explore that realm. (And such is the
downside of community-driven development.)



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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 8:02 PM, Rufus wrote:

PhillipJones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed
before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further
development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as
the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Still Rather Complex to do Email Newsgroup Web Browsing ant one it could
do FTP.



Not really...you write three routines, and one routine to drive them all.

I used to do that with my engineering homework...I'd code each
assignment as a subroutine and as the semester went on I'd just choose
the function I needed form the previous assignment and write a driver to
call them as needed to get the result for the next assignment.

My prof used to ask why I had to write such "fancy code"..."why don't
you just do the assignment".  He never caught on that by doing things as
I had the assignments actually were getting easier as he gave them out -
copy, cut, paste, script.


He wasn't able to look at the 'big picture'.  Tunnel vision.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 5:57 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:38 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/14/2014 2:05 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Check the number of lines of code involved.



Bloat does not equal complexity or value.  Before the days of desktop
computers and client-server systems, I was a software test engineer on a
complex software system that ran on a main-frame.  This system went
operational about 1971 or 1972 and continued to evolve until it was shut
down in 1992.  Because the main-frame had a fixed memory size, much
effort was expended on ensuring that new features could be added without
increasing the amount of memory required.

Often, I was asked how big the system was.  We had a tool that would
provide the number of source-code statements as well as the size of the
compiled executables.  I guarded that tool to prevent naive managers
from using it.  After I learned that the customer (U.S. Air Force) was
interested in how much code they obtained for the money they spent, I
would release the results only under a cover memo that explained that
size was a very poor measure of value.


So you are saying bloat code is always flawless?  I miss the logic here.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 5:54 PM, Cruz, Jaime wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/14/2014 3:29 AM, Cruz, Jaime wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 5/14/14 11:06 AM +0900, Ed Mullen wrote:

Cruz, Jaime wrote:

EE wrote:


Does HTML5 video go to real full-screen at all?  That has not
been my
experience.



HTML5 from YouTube does not... however HTML5 video when you use the
 HTML5 tag does.  If you don't believe me, look at the
videos on
my motorcycle club's webpage and see for yourself.

http://www.nassauwings.org/cgi-local/PhotoAlbum.rex



Not here.  SM 2.26.  All videos in little windows.


WFM on SM 2.26 on OS X 10.7.5. Right-click on the window and select
fullscreen from the pop-up menu. Works a charm.



Yup.  That was my point.  And with Firefox or Chrome, there is a little
icon that you can click to switch it directly to full screen (which is
the feature I was looking for in Seamonkey).



Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.26

Viewing your
,

I saw that icon in the lower-right corner of the video.  I clicked it
and got a full-monitor view.



That was not an HTML5 video.  You picked and older file that was a Flash
video, and the Flash plugin has that feature.  Pick one of the videos
from a more recent year (not .FLV, but .OGV or .WEBM) and you'll see
what I mean.


I have seen some videos that don't support full-screen.  I assumed they 
didn't have the resolution necessary to be usable that way.  Needs more 
research.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 5:10 PM, PhillipJones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:



Ron Hunter wrote:


I would like to see a single click on the URL in the URL bar to select
the whole URL like it does in Firefox.  That's why I am not using
SeaMonkey as my primary browser.


Does just that here.  Seamonkey 2.17.1, Windows 7 Enterprise.
Philip Taylor


Does that for me too...


Does for me in 2.26 one click and the whole URL is selected.


It was the IE Tab extension.  Deactivated it.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 10:21 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:


I would like to see a single click on the URL in the URL bar to select
the whole URL like it does in Firefox.  That's why I am not using
SeaMonkey as my primary browser.



browser.urlbar.clickSelectsAll - default is true

Working here.


It is set at 'true'.  Doesn't seem to do the trick here.
Might be an extension working against me.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 2:05 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using
the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further development
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as the
web slowly changed.



...personally, I don't think SM is all that "complex"...it's not like it
does 3D graphic presentations with interactive panning and rotation or
anything math-intensive like that.


Check the number of lines of code involved.

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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 5:29 AM, Cruz, Jaime wrote:

Trane Francks wrote:

On 5/14/14 11:06 AM +0900, Ed Mullen wrote:

Cruz, Jaime wrote:

EE wrote:


Does HTML5 video go to real full-screen at all?  That has not been my
experience.



HTML5 from YouTube does not... however HTML5 video when you use the
 HTML5 tag does.  If you don't believe me, look at the videos on
my motorcycle club's webpage and see for yourself.

http://www.nassauwings.org/cgi-local/PhotoAlbum.rex



Not here.  SM 2.26.  All videos in little windows.


WFM on SM 2.26 on OS X 10.7.5. Right-click on the window and select
fullscreen from the pop-up menu. Works a charm.



Yup.  That was my point.  And with Firefox or Chrome, there is a little
icon that you can click to switch it directly to full screen (which is
the feature I was looking for in Seamonkey).


I click the icon, it works.  Latest version of SeaMonkey.  Something is 
broke on your system, it seems.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/14/2014 2:57 AM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Ronald Hunter wrote:


Not here.  But that is on the most current version of SM.  Yours is
quite old.


Intentionally, Ronald.  2.17.1 is the last version not to render
material wrongly when Windows fonts are set to render at other
than 100%.  I am aware of the published work-arounds, none of which
are satisfactory.

Philip Taylor
I am not at all sure what you mean about rendering fonts at 100% or 
other than.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/13/2014 4:41 PM, Philip Taylor wrote:



Rufus wrote:


...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.


And my wish is even simpler :  that all documented bugs are fixed before
any further "development" takes place.

Philip Taylor


Philip, there is no such thing as bugless software of the complexity of 
SeaMonkey.  If you tried to do what you ask, then no further development 
would ever take place, and the browser would soon become unusable as the 
web slowly changed.


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Re: Wishlist of things I'd like to see

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/13/2014 2:06 PM, Rufus wrote:

Cruz, Jaime wrote:

After playing around with several different browsers there are a couple
of minor "tweaks" I'd like to see to the Seamonkey interface.

I'd like to be able to close a tab from the tab itself. Firefox, Chrome
and even Internet explorer put a little "x" on the left side of the tab
(even an inactive one) that allows you to close the tab.  With
Seamonkey, you have to bring the tab you want to close to the fore and
then mouse all the way over to the right and click the "X" over there.
As screens get higher and higher definitions, this gets more and more
inconvenient.

Only one other minor tweak I'd like to see, and that's in the playback
of HTML5 video.  Chrome and Firefox have a little clickable "button" at
the bottom of the playback window that allows you to switch to full
screen.  With Seamonkey, you have to right-click to bring up the menu
and select "Full Screen" from there.

These are more "convenience" items than anything else but it would
really "simplify" the experience for users, I think.

Thanks for hearing me out.



...I'd like to see all of the bugs that are preventing me from using the
Profile Manager fixed, and for SM to actually use my pref setting for
Master Password.

And fix the bug for following on-disk paths for .html files so I can
stop having to use Safari to open my Epson Help manual.

I would like to see a single click on the URL in the URL bar to select 
the whole URL like it does in Firefox.  That's why I am not using 
SeaMonkey as my primary browser.


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Re: SeaMonkey futures...

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/11/2014 7:50 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 5/11/2014 5:37 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 5/11/2014 4:13 PM, Ant wrote:

On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed:


Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will
SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI?


This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months.
   The answer has always been no.


But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design
forever? :P

Nothing remains the same forever.



However, it appears that the unpaid SeaMonkey volunteer developers
reject the concept of "change for the sake of change".  As usability
consultant Jakob Nielsen points out that kind of change turns off users.
  Another turn-off cited by Nielsen is dramatic change; where change is
necessary, he advocates gradual evolution.

I agree, when it comes to the user interface.  People seem to like the 
current interface, which works well, and I see no reason to change it 
unless significant improvement in FUNCTION can be shown.


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Re: SeaMonkey futures...

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/11/2014 4:13 PM, Ant wrote:

On 5/10/2014 8:26 AM PT, A Williams typed:


Will FireFox 29's new look will find its way into SeaMonkey, or will
SeaMonkey continue to allow its users to customize the UI?


This question has been asked here a few times over the last few months.
  The answer has always been no.


But will this be forever? Will SM always be using the same design
forever? :P

Nothing remains the same forever.

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Re: SM email not sending with large attachments

[Ron Hunter]

On 5/5/2014 1:46 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

Cerise wrote, On 05/05/2014 06:27:

On 5/5/2014 12:18 AM, flyguy wrote:


Would these be satisfactory tests?

*  My IMAP gmail account can send with no problems (done on the Win XP
computer)

*  My iPad (using the same router, but with wifi) has the same Godaddy
accounts on it, and they can all send the attachments - no problems.

* I can send big attachments using GoDaddy's webmail.



With each of those, you are sending either from a different machine,
or using different servers. You want to reduce the variables ... and
using a different mail client to connect to the same SMTP server from
the same PC would do that.

So, he must per exemple try to send with "Pegasus Mail" the same mail,
with the same pc, using smtp connection to "smtpout.secureserver.net".
If it fails .. SM is not involved and "PegasusMail" is also not involved.


Why not just contact the ISP and ask if there is a size limit on emails 
sent on a POP account.  Most do have size limits.


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Re: SeaMonkey suite

[Ron Hunter]

On 4/9/2014 3:47 AM, Trane Francks wrote:

On 4/9/14 1:31 PM +0900, cmcadams wrote:

Joyce Greer wrote:

Hi,
My husband and I just switched from outlook Express to SeaMonkey for
our email
client.  What I didn't realize (He did) was that the SeaMonkey
browser would be
included in the download.

I  have the Firefox browser as my default and want to keep it that
way, especially
for any links that I click on in my emails.

Is there any way I can have Firefox and not SeaMonkey come up when I
click on links
in my emails?  I'd appreciate any help you can give here.

Thanks,
Joyce Greer


Go to Firefox preferences, where there should be a button for making
Firefox your
default browser. I don't have it installed on this computer so I can't
tell you the
precise location.

Then, start Seamonkey Mail, go to

Edit->Preferences->Mail & Newsgroups

and on the right side you'll see buttons for making Seamonkey your
default for mail
and news(groups).


The problem here is that clicking links in mail, RSS, etc. will open
SeaMonkey windows rather than Firefox windows. Unless the user is
willing to drag links onto Firefox all the time, there's precious little
reason to suggest using SeaMonkey for mail and Firefox for web. When
using Firefox, Thunderbird makes a better mail, news and RSS choice.
IMO, YMMV and all that.

I am using SeaMonkey for web, and Thunderbird for mail because my 
pointing device  lets me use the extra buttons by application, so if I 
use email/newsgroups in SeaMonkey, I lose my programmable buttons. 
Works fine for me.  I am using SeaMonkey for the web because there is an 
intermittent crashing bug in Firefox that crashed the program without a 
dump (hangs).  I thought I had this fixed, but it still happens.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.25?

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/21/2014 3:18 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 21/03/14 04:00, OldGuy wrote:

The US-CERT announced:

Will Seamonkey 2.25 be released soon?  It's neither on the
 Web site nor on the ftp.mozilla.org
FTP server.


I hope the Seamonkey is no longer a slug-monkey.
Why is it so slow?


It is so slow because those who produce it are working 9 to 5 at their
real jobs, then they spend time with family and friends and then the get
some sleep  AND Then they work on SeaMonkey for the benefit of all
of us, who get the fruit of their efforts for FREE!!

They'll get around to it sometime, Oldguy!!

It isn't slow here.  Maybe the OP has a really old, slow, tired, and 
mal-ware infested computer.


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Re: Facebook Startup Problem Solved

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/19/2014 9:21 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Geoff Welsh wrote:

stan pierce wrote:

Just bought a new computer (Acer, Windows 7). Right off the bat, I
couldn't start FaceBook.


yikes!,  Facebook ended?

GW



Yeah, me too. It's why I have never created an account.  I mean, what if
I woke up one day and my face had disappeared?  Crap!  Would that not be
(at least) disconcerting?


Yes, but in some cases, it might be an aesthetic improvement.  Grin.

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Re: Tabs

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/17/2014 8:28 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 3/16/2014 3:53 PM, stan pierce wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

Is there any way to get back to the old system of clicking on the
red X
to get rid of the tabs one at a time instead of removing all tabs or
the
time consuming left right upside down clicking needed to remove one
tab
at a time rubbish?
Why change something that works?


Add-on: SeaTab X 2 0.3


The problem is how to  remove the third tab from the left on a screen
with 5 tabs.  The method for this requires extra clicking, and multiple
across the screen mouse movements.  UGLY.


OK, if you hate the mouse so much that two clicks bothers you...

If the tab in question is the current one, Ctrl-W and you're done.

If the tab in question is not the current one, Alt-Tab, Tab, Tab...
(holding the Alt key down the whole time) until you come to it, then
release and Ctrl-W. When it vanishes, your previous window or tab will
come to the foreground.


Closing a tab?  I middle-click.  Need a new tab?  Middle-click on a
blank spot on the tabe bar.

Good grief, what's so hard about this?


Nothing, IF you have a button for 'middle click'.

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Re: Tabs

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/17/2014 2:33 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 3/16/2014 3:53 PM, stan pierce wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

Is there any way to get back to the old system of clicking on the red X
to get rid of the tabs one at a time instead of removing all tabs or
the
time consuming left right upside down clicking needed to remove one tab
at a time rubbish?
Why change something that works?


Add-on: SeaTab X 2 0.3


The problem is how to  remove the third tab from the left on a screen
with 5 tabs.  The method for this requires extra clicking, and multiple
across the screen mouse movements.  UGLY.


OK, if you hate the mouse so much that two clicks bothers you...

If the tab in question is the current one, Ctrl-W and you're done.

If the tab in question is not the current one, Alt-Tab, Tab, Tab...
(holding the Alt key down the whole time) until you come to it, then
release and Ctrl-W. When it vanishes, your previous window or tab will
come to the foreground.

 My solution was to load an extension. Sea Tab X 2.03.  Works like the 
tabs in Firefox.  No excessive mousing, and no tapping keys.


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Re: Tabs

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/17/2014 9:07 AM, JAS wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 3/16/2014 3:53 PM, stan pierce wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

Is there any way to get back to the old system of clicking on the red X
to get rid of the tabs one at a time instead of removing all tabs or
the
time consuming left right upside down clicking needed to remove one tab
at a time rubbish?
Why change something that works?


Add-on: SeaTab X 2 0.3


The problem is how to  remove the third tab from the left on a screen
with 5 tabs.  The method for this requires extra clicking, and
multiple across the screen mouse movements.  UGLY.


Middle click on the tab

Not on Linux, so I don't have a 'middle click' defined.  Would 
cntrl-click work?


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Re: Tabs

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/16/2014 3:53 PM, stan pierce wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

Is there any way to get back to the old system of clicking on the red X
to get rid of the tabs one at a time instead of removing all tabs or the
time consuming left right upside down clicking needed to remove one tab
at a time rubbish?
Why change something that works?


Add-on: SeaTab X 2 0.3


The problem is how to  remove the third tab from the left on a screen 
with 5 tabs.  The method for this requires extra clicking, and multiple 
across the screen mouse movements.  UGLY.


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Re: Picture doesn't display in Seamonkey 2.24

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/11/2014 2:25 PM, Ron wrote:

http://ulocal.wmur.com/mediadetail/18215187-Snowy-Owl-%26-others-in-Rye%2C-NH?gid=76457&uid=&sort=upload%20DESC&offset=37


The box under the "Snowy Owl & others in Rye, NH" box should show the
picture. Works in IE 9


Works here on 2.24.  Try with add-ons disabled.

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Re: WOT

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/11/2014 2:21 PM, Cecil Bankston wrote:

Can the WOT (Web of Trust) addon be used with Seamonkey?  When I try to
download the Firefox version it is reported to be incompatible with
Seamonkey 2.24 and will not install

I don't get it listed when searching for it on the add-ons manager.

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Re: Mozilla suite in The Social Network movie.

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/5/2014 8:48 AM, Ant wrote:

On 3/5/2014 12:06 AM PT, Exalm typed:


Ant пишет:

I was watching The Social Network movie on a local ABC station (KABC's
7.1) tonight and saw old Mozilla's suite (modern theme) in Linux's KDE
v3. See http://www.enricoros.com/blog/2010/09/kde-3-on-tsn-movie/ for a
screen capture/shot. :D

Umm, it looks like a weird MozSuite/Firefox hybrid. See the home button,
lack of grippies, lack of Window menu, History instead of Go, favorite
and go icons in the address bar etc.


Wasn't it like that before SeaMonkey was released? IIRC, this was a
Mozilla web browser was a decade ago.

I have been using a Mozilla web browser since 1995.


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Re: 2.24 changes

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/1/2014 10:30 AM, William Brown wrote:

My Vista pc is under repair, so I am temporarily using Windows7.
Concurrently, SeaMonkey has updated to 2.24.  I have found some
aggravating behaviour, and I don't know if it is due to the OS or
Seamonkey.

First, if I have the email/newsgroup reader open, and the browser (with
usually multiple tabs) open, I no longer find multiple icons in the bar
at the bottom; I find one icon, so I have to click on it to see a
listing of what is open, and choose where I want to go.  That is a
complication I dislike; how can I bring back the old way that is simpler
and quicker?

Second, when I read email or newsgroups, I use the T and N keys.  To
mark a thread as read, T still works.  But when I use the N key to move
to the next item, the item I already read remains highlighted, when it
used to be dehilighted.  So If I use the N key, and read a whole group,
the group remains pristine, as though I had never read it.  I have to go
back and use the T key; I haven't tried mark all read, but even if it
works, it is an extra step.  How can I fix this "improvement"?
On Win7, that is a taskbar option.  Check out the taskbar options 
dialog.  Just right-click in an blank space in the taskbar and select 
'properties'.


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Re: focus keeps switching

[Ron Hunter]

On 2/28/2014 2:07 PM, EE wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote:

On 2/26/2014 11:20 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 2/26/2014 7:11 AM, Rick Merrill wrote:

This is slowly but surely driving me crazy: the focus shifts almost
randomly.
For example, I press reply, compose window opens, I type a key and
whammo the
original window comes to the top!



When the compose window opens, where is your cursor blinking before you
start typing?  Where is the arrow for your mouse?



The typing cursor is of course in the 'compose' folder but the arrow is
on the SM mail&news in spite of
my using "Snap to" to make the mouse "automatically move pointer to the
default button in a dialog box."
I guess 'compose' is not a dialog box :-(

thanks!


The text cursor and the pointer do not have to start in the same place
for me.  I started typing into this window after moving the normal
pointer onto the desktop, and the focus does not shift from this window
unless I click on something else with the pointer.  The only effect I
notice with Mac Mozilla applications is that when I start typing, the
pointer disappears and only reappears if I move the pointing device.

Some mouse drivers offer an 'x mouse' option that will send Windows a 
focus change based on the position of the mouse.  Perhaps that is the 
problem the OP is seeing.  Don't know if Mac drivers offer this.


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Re: Eliminate annoying pop up

[Ron Hunter]

On 2/24/2014 10:33 PM, Frosted Flake wrote:

john sumner wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

I'm surprised. After that outburst, you are calling*someone else*  an
asshole?

-- MCBastos

Dont feed the troll.

I'm surprised that Chris or someone else didn't shut him down (maybe
they did, I hope so).

I did.  Added to my filter list.

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Re: Eliminate annoying pop up

[Ron Hunter]

On 2/23/2014 2:09 PM, Mike wrote:

Dear folks at SeaMonky,

I use Windows 7, 64 bit.

I currently use SeaMonkey (Version 2.24) with Google as my browser web
page.

I like SeaMonkey especially for its email program because it is so close
to the old Netscape program I had used for many years.

Additionally, I sometimes use Internet Explorer (Version 11) with Google
as the browser web page.

When I boot up using SeaMonkey, and open to the Google page, a pop up
(or label) always appears in a box that says “Install Google Chrome”.

However, when I boot up using Internet Explorer, the pop up does not load.

A search of the net, shows many people want to stop this pop up from
appearing on their web page when they boot up (with no success).It
appears most of these people are using older version of Internet Explorer.

So, my question to you is:If the latest version of Internet Explorer can
stop this irritating pop up from appearing on their web page, can you
provide an updated SeaMonkey that also eliminates this pop up?

I don't see the popup on SeaMonkey.  Could that be because I sign onto 
Google?  I also allow cookies, so if you have them turned off, that 
might have some effect.


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Re: Interference with SeaMonkey v 2.24

[Ron Hunter]

On 2/22/2014 7:13 PM, cqbrodie wrote:

I have windows 7 on an HP desktop and I'm getting a barrage of unwanted
spam:
(a) webpage with "newplayer  appn" that has keeps popping up and which
according to my anti-virus appn is detecting a virus
(b) audio adverts
(c) a webpage with a Firefox logo wanting to add progams

I keep deleting them but they keep coming back and the item (b) type
will interfere with some audio hat I am already playing.

I also see ads by something called "Ads by Savings Bull on my home page
(Washington Post) can't turn this crap off.

Any advice as o how to get he above resolved.
Thanks



Sounds like you have managed to get one of those nasty drive-by installs 
that has put an ad-bot on your computer.  Check for malware, and take a 
look at all your add-ons too.  Not seeing that here.


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Re: How does the cache setups work in the latest stable SeaMonkey and Firefox web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 1/2/2013 8:38 AM, MCBastos wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:


Another aspect to the disk cache is that if you have a reasonably fast
broadband connection, you will probably slow the rendering of pages
other than the very most complex graphics dependent ones by waiting for
disk search, and access, as opposed to just getting them online.  I
normally turn disk caching off.


Latency is also a factor, however. I have a pretty fast broadband
connection, but I'm in Brazil so latency to international sites (which
are the ones I most often visit) sucks. Cache helps in my case.

MCBastos

I understand that people using satellite based internet also have long 
latency problems.  Just use what works best for your situation.


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Re: How does the cache setups work in the latest stable SeaMonkey and Firefox web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 1/1/2013 4:02 PM, MCBastos wrote:

Ant wrote:

Hello.

Does the web browsers keep the most used cached files on the disks? Do
the least used one get thrown one when more room is needed?

Thank you in advance. :)


By default most web browsers keep a disk cache of recently-acessed
pages, images and such on disk. Exact details depend on the particular
browser, but:
- On average, caches are pretty big, allowing for several days or even
weeks of browsing;
- The simplest algorithm used to determine which pages should be purged
is based on "last time this was needed": if cache hits the size limit,
the first pages to be purged are the ones which haven't been accessed
the longest. There are other, more sophisticated algorithms -- I don't
know if any browser uses them, but I have a feeling that, due to the
factors listed below and the large size of the average cache, the gains
should be minimal.
- Pages on servers are usually tagged with a "time to live," meaning
that browsers will disregard cached pages older than that time (or at
least they should). So your browser might fetch a page again even if you
visited it pretty recently, if the time-to-live has expired. Some pages
are tagged with a time-to-live of 0, meaning browsers shouldn't cache
them at all.
- Encrypted pages are not cached (or at least they should not be).

MCBastos


Another aspect to the disk cache is that if you have a reasonably fast 
broadband connection, you will probably slow the rendering of pages 
other than the very most complex graphics dependent ones by waiting for 
disk search, and access, as opposed to just getting them online.  I 
normally turn disk caching off.


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Re: How does the cache setups work in the latest stable SeaMonkey and Firefox web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 1/1/2013 1:34 PM, Ant wrote:

Hello.

Does the web browsers keep the most used cached files on the disks? Do
the least used one get thrown one when more room is needed?

Thank you in advance. :)


Yes, or when they expire, but the cache is usually set at a pretty large 
value, so you might not see anything deleted for a long time.


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Re: Web pages that have click to load more...

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/22/2012 2:31 PM, Thai Guy wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote, On 11/22/2012 13:01:

On 11/22/2012 8:57 AM, Thai Guy wrote:

Ant wrote, On 11/22/2012 01:54:

... I noticed more and more web sites are using very long web
pages that load more as you scroll down/click for more contents
like on http://hallmark.com, http://icanhas.cheezburger.com,
http://boingboing.net, etc.

Is there a way (e.g., extensions?) to disable this annoying web
site feature and make it load as new web pages like old fashion
links? Long web pages, with a lot of contents, really hog
precious memory, CPU, etc.

Thank you in advance. :)


There is one more giant abuser of this practice: Facebook.  The
further down you scroll, the longer the page gets.

YEs, you have to have a slow line to ever get to the 'bottom' of the
 page.  It also updates sometime while I am READING or leaving a
message to a post.  VERY annoying.  Wonder if Firefox could put that
under the user's control?



The only add-on I've ever found, Ron, for Facebook is Greasemoney's
'Facebook Ad Remover 1.0'.  It makes those annoying ads at the right
side of the screen go away AND recovers the space for more important
things.
There used to be something called 'easy facebook', or something like 
that, but then Facebook kept changing things so I guess the author gave 
up, or went nuts.


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Re: Web pages that have click to load more...

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/22/2012 8:57 AM, Thai Guy wrote:

Ant wrote, On 11/22/2012 01:54:

... I noticed more and more web sites are using very long web pages
that load more as you scroll down/click for more contents like on
http://hallmark.com, http://icanhas.cheezburger.com,
http://boingboing.net, etc.

Is there a way (e.g., extensions?) to disable this annoying web site
 feature and make it load as new web pages like old fashion links?
Long web pages, with a lot of contents, really hog precious memory,
CPU, etc.

Thank you in advance. :)


There is one more giant abuser of this practice: Facebook.  The further
down you scroll, the longer the page gets.
YEs, you have to have a slow line to ever get to the 'bottom' of the 
page.  It also updates sometime while I am READING or leaving a message 
to a post.  VERY annoying.  Wonder if Firefox could put that under the 
user's control?


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 8:58 AM, The Wanderer wrote:

On 11/11/2012 09:42 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:


On 11/11/2012 7:13 AM, The Wanderer wrote:


On 11/10/2012 08:59 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:



I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a
LOT.


That depends on your standards.

On my work desktop, I have somewhere in the range of 150 to 200 (or
possibly slightly above), split among two windows and a variety of tab
groups; I've slimmed it down a few times, but there are reasons for
all of
what's left.

On my laptop, I again have in the range from 150 to 200 (or possibly
slightly above), with a very different set of tabs, split among six
windows. I'm probably overdue to prune this again.

On my home desktop, I have somewhere in the range from 600 to 700
(possibly
more than that by now), split among six windows. About half of those are
"note to self" for something to transfer to a local database I keep of
"things to check for updates" (with datestamps so I don't bother
rechecking
too soon), but doing such transfers is tedious, so I keep not getting to
it. Even so, I wouldn't expect to ever be able to get below 80-90
tabs on
this machine, just as basic day-to-day operation.


Those numbers are taken from the "restore crashed session" dialog, which
does provide a whole-browser tab count; I've long wanted a way to get
such
a count without having to kill the browser, but I haven't found any
way to
trigger one.


Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help. Grin.


In my case, it would take hours. I've done bits and pieces of it from
time
to time, on one machine or another, but there are usually better
things to
do with my time.


I can't imagine what you use all those tabs for.  Seems like bookmarks
would
be better, unless you have a slow connection.


Bookmarks don't store tab history, or form data, or current position in the
page, or (for dynamically-generated or frequently-updated pages) the exact
current page state. They also don't store the position of the tab
relative to
the other nearby tabs (unless you bookmark those other tabs as part of
the same
group), which is also important in at least a few cases.

As for what I use them for, most of them are indeed backlog, from
projects et
cetera which are on hold until I have time to get back to them. One
subcategory
of those I'm in the process of trying to pull out to a separate
database, which
can store information I can't store in the tab state (and can present it
for
reference much more easily), but for my workflow most of the others belong
exactly where they are - until I get to them, after which they belong
nowhere.
(Or possibly in a bookmark, at that point.)


I seem to recall a mention of a memory listing that shows memory use
by tab.
You might check about:memory to see what it says.


I'm aware of about:memory, and I've looked at it on my laptop, but it
turns out
that it isn't available on my home desktop; it must have been added in
FF4 or
later. (I haven't yet gotten BarTab and my "how to restore my preferred
user
interface" documentation to the point where I'm willing to trust my main
browser
to the upgrade, although at this point I think I'm close.)

For what it's worth, memory usage isn't really a problem for me, in that
the
desktop in question has 24GB of RAM; at the moment, with Firefox up and
at least
an estimated 600 of those tabs unloaded by BarTab, I'm at around 5.5GB
of total
system memory usage. (According to top, 3GB of that is actually
Thunderbird.)

I think it was added (at least the part about extensions), rather more 
recently, as in 17.  I am sure it will be in 17 ESR.
But with as many tabs as you have, it will take you a while to read the 
list.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 7:58 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

MCBastos wrote:


XP is getting more and more annoying all the time, anyway. I have
this feeling that the security patches MS released over the last
couple years have not received any consideration regarding
performance impact; if it works, it's fine for them, even if the
patch causes serious performance problems. Case in point: Microsoft
Update nowadays uses oodles of RAM for about 20 minutes right after
XP boots up... the machine is basically unusable for the first
half-hour in the morning. The only known cure is to disable Microsoft
Update and go back to Windows Update.


Well, I'm not running WinXP anymore, but there /is/ a reasonable
alternative: don't shut down every night. Run the machine continuously,
let it update at 3 AM while you're sleeping. Yes, there's a performance
hit, but who cares if you're fast asleep until it's over?

MS Update normally only needs to run once a month.  Just leave the 
computer on on Monday night before the second Tuesday of each month, and 
set Windows Update to update automatically.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 7:13 AM, The Wanderer wrote:

On 11/10/2012 08:59 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:


On 11/10/2012 1:08 PM, Ant wrote:


On 11/8/2012 12:02 PM PT, Ant typed:


Is there a way to find out how many current tabs/windows are running
in these web browsers? Using "about:memory" doesn't show that
information.
:(


I just found a way sort of. Close all tabs and it will ask me to
close XX
tabs. Dang, I have 123 tabs in ONE window!! I thought it was about 50!
However, I have to do this for each window and do the basic math. :(


I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a
LOT.


That depends on your standards.

On my work desktop, I have somewhere in the range of 150 to 200 (or
possibly
slightly above), split among two windows and a variety of tab groups; I've
slimmed it down a few times, but there are reasons for all of what's left.

On my laptop, I again have in the range from 150 to 200 (or possibly
slightly
above), with a very different set of tabs, split among six windows. I'm
probably
overdue to prune this again.

On my home desktop, I have somewhere in the range from 600 to 700
(possibly more
than that by now), split among six windows. About half of those are
"note to
self" for something to transfer to a local database I keep of "things to
check
for updates" (with datestamps so I don't bother rechecking too soon),
but doing
such transfers is tedious, so I keep not getting to it. Even so, I wouldn't
expect to ever be able to get below 80-90 tabs on this machine, just as
basic
day-to-day operation.


Those numbers are taken from the "restore crashed session" dialog, which
does
provide a whole-browser tab count; I've long wanted a way to get such a
count
without having to kill the browser, but I haven't found any way to
trigger one.


Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help. Grin.


In my case, it would take hours. I've done bits and pieces of it from
time to
time, on one machine or another, but there are usually better things to
do with
my time.

Just checked on FF 17 beta, and about:memory does list RAM use by tab. 
Your list will be rather LONG as it takes 6 lines per tab.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 7:13 AM, The Wanderer wrote:

On 11/10/2012 08:59 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:


On 11/10/2012 1:08 PM, Ant wrote:


On 11/8/2012 12:02 PM PT, Ant typed:


Is there a way to find out how many current tabs/windows are running
in these web browsers? Using "about:memory" doesn't show that
information.
:(


I just found a way sort of. Close all tabs and it will ask me to
close XX
tabs. Dang, I have 123 tabs in ONE window!! I thought it was about 50!
However, I have to do this for each window and do the basic math. :(


I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a
LOT.


That depends on your standards.

On my work desktop, I have somewhere in the range of 150 to 200 (or
possibly
slightly above), split among two windows and a variety of tab groups; I've
slimmed it down a few times, but there are reasons for all of what's left.

On my laptop, I again have in the range from 150 to 200 (or possibly
slightly
above), with a very different set of tabs, split among six windows. I'm
probably
overdue to prune this again.

On my home desktop, I have somewhere in the range from 600 to 700
(possibly more
than that by now), split among six windows. About half of those are
"note to
self" for something to transfer to a local database I keep of "things to
check
for updates" (with datestamps so I don't bother rechecking too soon),
but doing
such transfers is tedious, so I keep not getting to it. Even so, I wouldn't
expect to ever be able to get below 80-90 tabs on this machine, just as
basic
day-to-day operation.


Those numbers are taken from the "restore crashed session" dialog, which
does
provide a whole-browser tab count; I've long wanted a way to get such a
count
without having to kill the browser, but I haven't found any way to
trigger one.


Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help. Grin.


In my case, it would take hours. I've done bits and pieces of it from
time to
time, on one machine or another, but there are usually better things to
do with
my time.

I can't imagine what you use all those tabs for.  Seems like bookmarks 
would be better, unless you have a slow connection.  I seem to recall a 
mention of a memory listing that shows memory use by tab.  You might 
check about:memory to see what it says.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 6:46 AM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 11/11/2012 04:35, Ant told the world:

On 11/10/2012 5:59 PM PT, Ron Hunter typed:


I just found a way sort of. Close all tabs and it will ask me to close
XX tabs. Dang, I have 123 tabs in ONE window!! I thought it was about
50! However, I have to do this for each window and do the basic math. :(


I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a
LOT.  Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help.  Grin.


Usually one or two windows. Currently, I have 138 tabs + 17 tabs from
two windows. Yeah, that probably explains why sometimes seamonkey.exe
hogs up to 2 GB of memory and get very slow/freezes (have to kill it
like a few minutes ago). Yes, I am that crazy. I guess I am the only who
does this? :P However, my 64-bit W7 machines (8 GB of RAM) at work
handle this better so maybe my old, updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 with 2.5
GB of RAM can't handle this extreme setup well? :P


I have been reading the postings of the MemShrink and Snappy teams and
it appears that, albeit uncommon, your case is hardly unique -- there's
a good number of "extreme tab users" out there.
The good news is that there are a number of patches in various stages of
completion aimed at helping in your sort of use case.

The bad news is that no, I don't see your XP machine ever handling it
gracefully. 32-bit Windows by default does not give more than 2Gb to any
single application unless you run it with the /3Gb switch; and with 2.5
total RAM, probably not even that without a lot of disk swapping.

XP is getting more and more annoying all the time, anyway. I have this
feeling that the security patches MS released over the last couple years
have not received any consideration regarding performance impact; if it
works, it's fine for them, even if the patch causes serious performance
problems. Case in point: Microsoft Update nowadays uses oodles of RAM
for about 20 minutes right after XP boots up... the machine is basically
unusable for the first half-hour in the morning. The only known cure is
to disable Microsoft Update and go back to Windows Update.

I have been upgrading older machines at work to Windows 7 with
reasonably good results. As long as they have 1 Gb RAM, a dual-core CPU
and good driver support (video is the one that most often is missing),
the end result is better with Windows 7 than with XP.

The only thing I recall seeing run after I boot is the MSE engine 
checking things.  Takes a while on my laptop.  I guess the system turns 
it off during the update, and it has to 'catch up'.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/11/2012 12:35 AM, Ant wrote:

On 11/10/2012 5:59 PM PT, Ron Hunter typed:


I just found a way sort of. Close all tabs and it will ask me to close
XX tabs. Dang, I have 123 tabs in ONE window!! I thought it was about
50! However, I have to do this for each window and do the basic math. :(


I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a
LOT.  Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help.  Grin.


Usually one or two windows. Currently, I have 138 tabs + 17 tabs from
two windows. Yeah, that probably explains why sometimes seamonkey.exe
hogs up to 2 GB of memory and get very slow/freezes (have to kill it
like a few minutes ago). Yes, I am that crazy. I guess I am the only who
does this? :P However, my 64-bit W7 machines (8 GB of RAM) at work
handle this better so maybe my old, updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 with 2.5
GB of RAM can't handle this extreme setup well? :P


It is always possible to overload a system, no matter how big it gets. 
I am sure you aren't ONLY person who uses that many tabs, but the 
percentage is probably very small.


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Re: Show how many tabs/windows are running in web browsers?

[Ron Hunter]

On 11/10/2012 1:08 PM, Ant wrote:

On 11/8/2012 12:02 PM PT, Ant typed:


Is there a way to find out how many current tabs/windows are running in
these web browsers? Using "about:memory" doesn't show that
information. :(


I just found a way sort of. Close all tabs and it will ask me to close
XX tabs. Dang, I have 123 tabs in ONE window!! I thought it was about
50! However, I have to do this for each window and do the basic math. :(


I hesitate to ask... how many windows do you keep open?  123 tabs is a 
LOT.  Maybe a few minutes cleaning house would help.  Grin.


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Re: YouTube.com starts using HTML5 and not Flash?

[Ron Hunter]

On 10/22/2012 7:31 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 10/18/2012 12:04 PM PT, Dave Warren typed:


Personally, I often middle-click open a few videos that look interesting
at once, but I don't want these to all start playing at once.


Ditto for me. Sometimes I have 50+ tabs opened. :D


Seems to me this whole issue is better addressed by YouTube having a
"disable auto play" button that would set a cookie.  MLB.com has that on
team pages

GW
I would like that, but there are those who think cookies are the work of 
the devil.


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Re: YouTube.com starts using HTML5 and not Flash?

[Ron Hunter]

On 10/18/2012 2:55 PM, EE wrote:

On 2012-10-18 02:34, Daniel wrote:

PhillipJones wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Peter Taylor wrote:

On 10/16/2012 6:05 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Peter Taylor wrote:

On 10/14/2012 9:18 PM, Ant wrote:

Hello.

Has anyone noticed that today? I am getting some HTML5 videos, and
not
Flash in my Mozilla's SeaMonkey v2.13.1 web browsers (similiar to
the
latest Firefox web browsers)! I need a HTML5 video blocker like
FlashBlock. Ugh! :(

I need a HTML5 video blocker like FlashBlock. Ugh! Does one even
exist?

Thank you in advance. :)


Can you provide a You Tube video in HTML5 so I can test?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYrND5hMY3A

Oddly, I get no audio in SeaMonkey but I do in Firefox. In SM I DO
have
audio on Flash videos. Hmm.



I get audio with both. It also works fine in IE and Chrome.



Shock!! Horror!! I've *got* sound...often I don't get sound!!

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:15.0)
Gecko/20120909 SeaMonkey/2.12.1 Build identifier: 20120909051705


I was able using Chrome to here the following video in html 5 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj8DwSuoUow&feature=g-vrecwebm-1

SeaMonkey and FF Mac no. I am missing th H264 codec  I do have the h.264

Here is a sample video that works in ff17:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/XlyCLbt3Thk?rel=0webm-1.
I did notice

Doesn't work in the latest SM.



I get sound on both those links, Phillip, but then

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:15.0)
Gecko/20120909 SeaMonkey/2.12.1 Build identifier: 20120909051705


I get Flash for both those links with Firefox & Opera, but the second
one does not play with Firefox 16.0.1. Both work with Opera.  There is
no advertising in the first one.  Neither link shows the video with
Safari, which uses only HTML5 with YouTube.


They both seem to work fine here on 17 beta.

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Re: YouTube.com starts using HTML5 and not Flash?

[Ron Hunter]

On 10/16/2012 5:50 AM, Desiree wrote:

"Ant"  wrote in message
news:-ekdnxsweeqevobnnz2dnuvz_radn...@mozilla.org...

On 10/14/2012 1:24 PM PT, Rufus typed:


Has anyone noticed that today? I am getting some HTML5 videos, and not
Flash in my Mozilla's SeaMonkey v2.13.1 web browsers (similiar to the
latest Firefox web browsers)! I need a HTML5 video blocker like
FlashBlock. Ugh! :(

I need a HTML5 video blocker like FlashBlock. Ugh! Does one even exist?


They started this some time ago, but it's a bit sporadic - some vids are
HTML5 and some are still Flash.  But they're phasing in
HTML5...presumably because of Flash-free devices like the iPad and other
mobiles.


Yeah, I just discovered a way get out of it. It looked Google/YouTube
added me into a trial: http://www.youtube.com/html5 ... I opted out and
all good for now. I am sure they will force this on all of us with HTML5
compatible web browsers soon. HTML5 videos don't seem ready and has issues
like I mentioned. :(
--
"Ants die in sugar." --Malawi
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
 \ _ /If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
  ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.


I am very glad that youtube is showing more and more videos in HTML5. It
works great on Sea Monkey and on Fx 10 ESR. In fact, HTML 5 is a life saver.
I had to completely remove Flash from plugin browsers. That horrible plugin
container on both Fx 10 and Sea Monkey was constantly wanting to start even
though the web page had NO flash on it! That plugin container is a bat out
of hell. I hate it and won't allow it to start unless I wish to play Flash
content, there is Flash content on the page, and there is no HTML5 ability
on the page. If a video can be played both in HTML5 and Flash, you cannot
have both Flash and HTML5 if you are using Fx or SM as Flash and HTML5 fight
each other at youtube.

Plus, the plugin container is a HORROR because I filter everything through
the Proxomitron (Sidki's latest filters from Dec 2011). This means NO ADS so
need for Plugin container to want to start for Flash ads. Plus, if I wish to
view Flash video on a page, Proxo gives me a toggle switch. If I toggle to
see the Flash movie, then and ONLY then should Plugin container start.

I block Plugin container and that created so many problems that I had to
uninstall Flash for plugin browsers but would like to use it on Opera.
However, Fx and SM will install it without my permission! That is
UNACCEPTABLE and means that I can't have Flash for Opera. So, I am very
happy to not need Flash at many sites now where HTML5 is used instead.


The purpose of the plugin container is to prevent Firefox from crashing 
when plugins that are compatible with it (plugin container) crash.  How 
can this be a problem for you?  DO you LIKE crashes?  I never notice 
that it is running because I don't continuously monitor my processes. 
If you just let it do its job, there would be less trouble.  Ads are NOT 
the only things that use Flash.


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Re: YouTube.com starts using HTML5 and not Flash?

[Ron Hunter]

On 10/14/2012 3:24 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ant wrote:

Hello.

Has anyone noticed that today? I am getting some HTML5 videos, and not
Flash in my Mozilla's SeaMonkey v2.13.1 web browsers (similiar to the
latest Firefox web browsers)! I need a HTML5 video blocker like
FlashBlock. Ugh! :(

I need a HTML5 video blocker like FlashBlock. Ugh! Does one even exist?

Thank you in advance. :)


They started this some time ago, but it's a bit sporadic - some vids are
HTML5 and some are still Flash.  But they're phasing in
HTML5...presumably because of Flash-free devices like the iPad and other
mobiles.


Not to mention multitudes of recent problems with Flashplayer!

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Re: Hogging CPU from JavaScript/JS on some web sites/pages recently?

[Ron Hunter]

On 7/5/2012 8:37 PM, Ant wrote:

On 7/3/2012 8:35 PM PT, Ant typed:


Lately, I noticed two (soon to be more? I will post more that I find
since I am a web addict ;)) web sites/pages are currently sucking my web
browsers' CPU powers. They sometimes make web browsers very slow
(sometimes unusable). I found out it is from JavaScript/JS because it
stops if I disable JS and reload/refresh the web pages. Of course, web
site/pages' features/functions don't work.

Example web pages/sites:
1. http://cbs2.com stories like this story/web page:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/07/03/cudahy-mayor-resigns-amid-corruption-charges/


2. http://icanhascheezburger.com and its family of web sites. Example
web page:
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2012/06/22/funny-animal-videos-the-worlds-oldest-tiger/


I can reproduce them on three different computers (quad core systems
with 2.5-8 GB of RAM), two Mozilla's web browsers (SeaMonkey v2.0.14 and
2.10.1 and Firefox/Iceweasel v13.0.1) and operating systems (64-bit
Windows 7 HPE, XP Pro. SP3, and Debian stable). I even tried disabling
all of my extensions. Also, this happened at work and home with two
different ISPs/Internet connections. :(

Is anyone else able to reproduce this and seeing this problem on other
web sites/pages? Why is it happening recently? I noticed this pattern
since the last weekend. :(


For kicks, I tried clean installations of both Firefox v13.0.1 and
SeaMonkey v2.10.1. I reproduced them too even after disabling all
addons, extensions, and disabling network connection. Something is
wacky. Here's a screen shot of updated Windows XP Pro. SP3's Task
Manager: http://i.imgur.com/58r5T.gif ... I even reproduced it in a new
Firefox v13.0.1 in an updated 64-bit Mac OS X 10.7.4 (1 GB of RAM). :(


I see no unusual CPU activity on those pages.  Win7 Home SP1, 2.6GHZ 
dual core Intel.  Have you done a complete malware scan?


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Re: Menus on Windows 8 touchscreen

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/22/2012 8:25 PM, David Wilkinson wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

Nobody trying FireFox on Windows 8?


Who would want to?


I don't see that this question calls for Microsoft and/or Windows 8
bashing. After all, Mozilla is apparently going to build a Metro version
of Firefox, so I am sure they would like the desktop version to work on
Windows 8 also.

And it does, except for this menu issue with the touchscreen (or at
least the Acer W500 touchscreen).

I didn't pay too much attention to the article, but I think I saw 
something that indicated Firefox would work in both modes.  Sounds like 
a neat trick, since even IE seems to be two programs.  Not bashing MS, 
but certainly bashing Metro!


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Re: Menus on Windows 8 touchscreen

[Ron Hunter]

On 3/22/2012 10:24 AM, David Wilkinson wrote:

David Wilkinson wrote:

In both DP and CP Windows 8 versions, in touchscreen mode the menus in
FireFox
and SeaMonkey do not work (I haven't tried Thunderbird). The menu
drops down,
but pressing an item does not work. It is as if the menu is
transparent -- the
press registers on the the window underneath the menu. This does not
happen with
other "desktop" applications that I have tried.


Nobody trying FireFox on Windows 8?


Who would want to?

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Re: Windows 8 Metro

[Ron Hunter]

On 9/30/2011 10:28 AM, David Wilkinson wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

Why is Win8 any more closed than any other version of Windows?



Well, it will have an apps store, and you will be prevented from
multi-boot installs. How's that for a starter?


I don't know if the app-store will be the only way to install Metro
apps, but doesn't the "open" Android have an App store also?



Remains to be seen, but NOT ALL Android phones are open.



I am multi-booting Windows 8 with Windows 7 on my PC right now, so I'm
not sure what you mean by this. Not so easy to multi-boot an Android or
IOS device, anyway.

I have mixed feelings about Metro myself, but I think that a common
runtime and user experience over the whole range of devices is an
attractive concept, and one that will give Microsoft an edge.



Well, from my point of view, I will stick with Windows7 until I am 
forced to replace hardware, which will NOT have Windows 8 on it.  I will 
not be shoe-horned into a screen presentation that doesn't accommodate 
itself to MY preferences, and needs.  The ugly, inflexible, and annoying 
'tiles' are an abomination.




In any case, Microsoft is betting the farm on this concept, so it's very
likely to happen.



The farm will sell cheap as a result to this misguided excursion into 
child-friendly computing.

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Re: Windows 8 Metro

[Ron Hunter]

On 9/30/2011 6:04 AM, David Wilkinson wrote:

Sailfish wrote:

Win8 is a closed system. Apple can get away with it because of their
ability to inspire with the hardware and software design. Android is
open and is now selling more smartphones/tablets than even Apple, let
alone WinPhone7. Why should Mozilla put anything more than a meager
effort into Win8?


Why is Win8 any more closed than any other version of Windows?



Well, it will have an apps store, and you will be prevented from 
multi-boot installs.  How's that for a starter?



Actually, Microsoft is providing the advantage of a Windows runtime
(WinRT) that will run on both tablets and conventional computers. It's
hard to believe that WinRT will not become available for Windows phone
development also. Unless WinRT/Metro fails completely, this is a very
big market that can be addressed by a single WinRT version of the browser.

WinRT also has the advantage that it can be programmed directly in C++
(though the interaction with the Metro UI requires an extended version
of C++ called C++/CX). Much better than using Objective C or Dalvik, IMHO.

But currently, the only Metro/WinRT browser is Internet Explorer 10. One
interesting feature of it is that it does not allow plug-ins, not even
Silverlight.



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Re: A plea for a return to sanity in new version release scheduling

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/29/2011 8:16 AM, Daniel wrote:

John wrote:

I use SeaMonkey most of the time and Firefox occasionally. I try never
to use IE.

The web browser and email client are critically important to me, and I
think the majority of users would agree.

Since Firefox and SeaMonkey embarked on their accelerated release
schedule, we've seen several updates incorporating many significant
behavioral changes which are causing grief to many users. Along with
this we are being encouraged to upgrade promptly because that's the only
way to get the latest security patches. Why the big hurry all of a
sudden?

Changes in program behavior should be fully documented in advance of an
upgrade. Users who prefer the behavior of the old version should be
given the option to retain it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

The end user should not be forced to be the guinea pig whose feedback
becomes the quality control for these programs. Please return to the
former more careful release strategy.

I worked as an electrical engineer for Motorola for many years. All too
often, we had products being sold before they were designed and
unrelenting pressure to push them out the door. "There's never time to
do it right, but there's always time to do it over" was the cynical
opinion of many of my colleagues. It seems like the software industry is
the same way.


Is it really rapid-release??

SeaMonkey 1.0 alpha through to SeaMonkey 1.0.9 - twelve releases over
twenty months.

SeaMonkey 1.1 alpha through to SeaMonkey 1.1.19 - twenty two releases
over forty three months.

SeaMonkey 2.0 alpha through to SeaMonkey to SeaMonkey 2.0.14 - twenty
two releases over thirty months.

Should the question really be *What's the difference??*

There are a lot of differences, but the primary one is that the new 
release system includes NOT just bug and security fixes, but NEW 
FEATURES.  There is also an ongoing User Interface redesign that is 
taking place slowly since FF4.  I can't see that just how they choose to 
number releases affects any aspect of either use, or utility, of a 
release.  Getting new features, and other 'non-bug/security' fixes to 
the user-base as quickly as possible means the FF can remain competitive 
in a rather difficult market.
I, for one, think the new system is fantastic, and makes the product 
more useful, and more 'current'.  What numbers are applied, I will let 
others discuss because it doesn't matter to me.


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Re: A plea for a return to sanity in new version release scheduling

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/18/2011 1:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Ryan P. wrote:

On 8/17/2011 4:53 PM, Ran Garoo wrote:

On 8/17/2011 14:26, John wrote:

I use SeaMonkey most of the time and Firefox occasionally. I try never
to use IE.

The web browser and email client are critically important to me, and I
think the majority of users would agree.

Since Firefox and SeaMonkey embarked on their accelerated release
schedule, we've seen several updates incorporating many significant
behavioral changes which are causing grief to many users. Along with
this we are being encouraged to upgrade promptly because that's the
only
way to get the latest security patches. Why the big hurry all of a
sudden?

Changes in program behavior should be fully documented in advance of an
upgrade. Users who prefer the behavior of the old version should be
given the option to retain it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

The end user should not be forced to be the guinea pig whose feedback
becomes the quality control for these programs. Please return to the
former more careful release strategy.

I worked as an electrical engineer for Motorola for many years. All too
often, we had products being sold before they were designed and
unrelenting pressure to push them out the door. "There's never time to
do it right, but there's always time to do it over" was the cynical
opinion of many of my colleagues. It seems like the software
industry is
the same way.


Ditto.
Plus, the extension system is broken. Why in the world would an update
done for mostly stylistic reasons break the functionality of one of the
major features that distinguishes Firefox?
Go with the latest upgrade and lose more extensions.
I wish they would stop designing around the ideas of somebody who
arbitralily decides that the world doen't need some function; i.e., the
java console. Or designing sround someone's fervent (apparently) desire
to emultate MicroSoft's horrible ribbon menus.


Having worked with many different products conceived, designed and
tested by engineers, I can tell you that the Mozilla team is exhibiting
all the signs of not caring about how something works "in the real
world." They care about adding bells and whistles simply because they
can, and they can brag about having 3 more bells than the other team of
computer geeks has on their software. Nevermind that its making the
end-user (generally NOT a computer geek) jump through more and more
hoops to simply use the software.

I'm not saying that I don't appreciate Firefox... Its just that change
for the sake of change, as opposed to change to add functionality, is
silly.



Second.


http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/6.0beta/releasenotes/buglist.html

Not change for the sake of change.

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Re: A plea for a return to sanity in new version release scheduling

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/18/2011 10:59 AM, Ryan P. wrote:

On 8/18/2011 6:24 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 8/18/2011 5:35 AM, Peter Boulding wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:25:31 -0500, Ron Hunter
wrote
in:


On 8/17/2011 9:54 PM, Peter Boulding wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:33:59 -0700, Sailfish
 wrote in
:

[mozilla.support.seamonkey,mozilla.support.firefox reinserted]


A quick search of this newsgroup would have shown you that this topic
has been brought up several times and deemed OFF-TOPIC for this
newsgroup.


"Has been deemed?" You should listen to yourself.

The current "let's replace version numbers with 'up to date' or 'not
up to
date' and sod add-ons" idiocy is so stunningly crass and so rightly
controversial that it's going to get discussed *everywhere* whether
you like
it or not... and no amount of "off topic here there and everywhere
else
apart from the Free Speech Zone we set up well away from the
building" is
going to stop it.


It is such an earth-shatteringly important thing, right?


Look where it's going:

<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775>

Money quote:
"It is part of the phasing out of version numbers in Firefox that's
already
well under way (though still incomplete.)"



I believe the intent is to just give you a 'latest version', or 'You
need an update' and just display 'Firefox', without a version number. I
can't see why this is vitally important as long as the actual
version/build is available somewhere for troubleshooting purposes, and
even then, it isn't always important.
Personally, I can't see why it hurts to have the version and build ID
listed, but the devs seem to think this isn't useful.


I can just see the bug reports now... "xxx is broken. It worked a few
weeks ago. I had an old version that just updated itself to Latest
Version, so I don't know what version I was running before."

How much time would a developer have to waste trying to track THAT bug
down?

I think its idiocy not having version numbers in software. Of course, I
think its idiocy to bump a version number a whole number just because
you fixed a spelling error in a drop down menu, but at least its a
version number...


So, you think the difference between FF5 and FF6 is that trivial?  Go here:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/6.0beta/releasenotes/buglist.html

Spelling changes?
Sure.
but a couple of other minor fixes, wouldn't you say?
Last I checked, they already had 740 or so listed changes between FF6 
and FF7, which should move to the beta channel any minute now.


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Re: A plea for a return to sanity in new version release scheduling

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/18/2011 5:35 AM, Peter Boulding wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:25:31 -0500, Ron Hunter  wrote
in:


On 8/17/2011 9:54 PM, Peter Boulding wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:33:59 -0700, Sailfish
   wrote in
:

[mozilla.support.seamonkey,mozilla.support.firefox reinserted]


A quick search of this newsgroup would have shown you that this topic
has been brought up several times and deemed OFF-TOPIC for this
newsgroup.


"Has been deemed?"  You should listen to yourself.

The current "let's replace version numbers with 'up to date' or 'not up to
date' and sod add-ons" idiocy is so stunningly crass and so rightly
controversial that it's going to get discussed *everywhere* whether you like
it or not... and no amount of "off topic here there and everywhere else
apart from the Free Speech Zone we set up well away from the building" is
going to stop it.


It is such an earth-shatteringly important thing, right?


Look where it's going:

<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775>

Money quote:
"It is part of the phasing out of version numbers in Firefox that's already
well under way (though still incomplete.)"


I believe the intent is to just give you a 'latest version', or 'You 
need an update' and just display 'Firefox', without a version number.  I 
can't see why this is vitally important as long as the actual 
version/build is available somewhere for troubleshooting purposes, and 
even then, it isn't always important.
Personally, I can't see why it hurts to have the version and build ID 
listed, but the devs seem to think this isn't useful.


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Re: A plea for a return to sanity in new version release scheduling

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/17/2011 9:54 PM, Peter Boulding wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:33:59 -0700, Sailfish
  wrote in
:

[mozilla.support.seamonkey,mozilla.support.firefox reinserted]


A quick search of this newsgroup would have shown you that this topic
has been brought up several times and deemed OFF-TOPIC for this
newsgroup.


"Has been deemed?"  You should listen to yourself.

The current "let's replace version numbers with 'up to date' or 'not up to
date' and sod add-ons" idiocy is so stunningly crass and so rightly
controversial that it's going to get discussed *everywhere* whether you like
it or not... and no amount of "off topic here there and everywhere else
apart from the Free Speech Zone we set up well away from the building" is
going to stop it.


It is such an earth-shatteringly important thing, right?


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Re: Proposed changes to the support newsgroups/mailing lists

[Ron Hunter]

On 2/17/2011 5:52 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:

On 11-02-03 12:34 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:

PREFACE: I'm setting replies to this post to be posted in
mozilla.general. If you don't want to subscribe to mozilla.general, you
send your response to my email address and I'll post it there.


_The problem_
Spam in the newsgroups.


_How is it happening_
These newsgroups are mirrored between lists.mozilla.org,
news.mozilla.org, and Google Groups. All the spam is coming via Google
Groups, and Google is doing nothing to stop it.


_What are the proposed changes to fix it in other newsgroups_
The plan for the developer newsgroups is laid out at
. There is more
information there about the details of the problem. The solution for
other newsgroups basically goes like this:
* all posts require moderator approval
* the moderator can add you to a whitelist, which means all your posts
will be automatically approved


_What is the plan for the support newsgroups_
Because most threads in the support newsgroups are started by new
posters, who often don't post in other threads, and rarely come back
after their issue is fixed, the plan for the developer newsgroups isn't
ideal for the support newsgroups. So I want to lay out our options and
get your feedback.


_The options_

A) We mark the Google Groups end as read-only. This is not an option in
the developer newsgroups, because web-access is mandatory. But for
support, there are other (better) web-based support forums
(support.mozilla.com, getsatisfaction, mozillazine, etc.), so the
ability to post here via the web isn't really preventing users from
getting web-based support.
To see what a read-only Google Group looks like, go to


However, I'm not sure this will stop spam that is cross-posted from
other Google Groups. It may prevent people in the developer newsgroups
from cross-posting to the support newsgroups via Google. And I'm not
sure if users looking for help via the Google Groups end will know where
to go, after they see that they cannot post.


B) We implement the same plan as for the developer newsgroups, but only
contributors are added to the whitelist. We then add more moderators, to
increase the chances of a new thread getting approved quickly.

However, this requires vigilance from moderators, and there may not be
enough to eliminate the latency.


C) We configure the newsgroups like the dev groups, but automatically
approve every post, and let SpamAssassin filter the spam. (SpamAssassin
is already installed on the mailing list, and has been doing a very good
job of catching the spam and holding it for moderation.)

However, the mailing lists still gets the odd message from non-members
thinking it's a private support address. Right now, posts from
non-members are automatically rejected and given a message explaining
that this is a community forum. But if we go with plan C, those messages
would be automatically approved.


_Why this post_
I'm looking for feedback. Which plan do you prefer? Are there any
caveats we've missed? Any solutions you'd like to add?


We're going with plan C.

*Next step* is to test the configuration on one newsgroup.
mozilla.support.other has almost no traffic, so that looks like a good
test bed.
I've filed .


If it has not traffic, how will you get any useful information on how it 
works?


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Re: Left and right arrow keys to go to previous/next.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/31/2010 9:00 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

On 8/31/2010 9:56 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/31/10 5:41 AM, Phillip Jones wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 1:54 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 8/30/2010 12:13 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 7:35 AM, Ant wrote:

On 8/29/2010 3:54 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


I have the PrefBar extension installed for SeaMonkey. I use the
JavaScript checkbox to disable JavaScript whenever I view the
Huffington
Post, not because of what happens to navigation arrows but
because of
the annoying same-window popups. I also disable JavaScript for
several
other news Web sites for the same reason. The only problem is
remembering to enable JavaScript before I visit a page where
it is
really needed.


Strange, I don't get pop-ups there but then I do use AdBlock
Plus. Is
there a way to white and black lists web sites for JS? But then
other
features on those web sites would break. Ugh!


The "popups" are not advertisements; they are not even true popups.
They are in the form of large tool-tips, comments on the item
over which
the cursor is hovering. Thus, AdBlock Plus (which I too use) will
not
block them. Although they are not ads, they are very annoying
because
they often hide adjacent content.


My own personal definition of a 'popup' is ANYTHING that appears
over
already present display information that is not requested by the
user.
It really doesn't matter if it is advertisement, or not. If it
obscures
content, and is not requested, then it is a popup. It appears that
Firefox devs need to reassess the current state of such
distractions to
see if they can be prevented. This is just another of those 'arms
races' where advertisers, and others, seek to override the user's
preferences as to how they view content.



I visit a number of Web pages where the tooltip type of "popup"
happens
to be important.

Go to<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/>. Hover your cursor over a tropical
storm. You will get a popup that provides a summary about that storm.
Currently, at<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml?epac>, the map
shows
a low-pressure area that is not yet a storm. The popup for that
low-pressure area provides an estimated probability of whether it
will
become a tropical storm.



Nice example of a "good" use of the function. Unfortunately, it is all
to often sorely abused.


Doesn't SM And Firefox both have pop-up blockers? and aren't they
already setup so you can white list legit Pop-ups such as for example
the weather websites.

Only item I woul love to permanent kill is the NetFlix ad opens every
time you open another website. I believe they have infiltrated the
various sites without knowledge of the website owner. For example cNet,
ZDnet, and Computerworld news. as long as your on the main page fine
(it
already has small ads which ignore). But as soon as I go to read an
article, bam!, up comes the NetFix ad, and the only way I can get
rid of
it, is use back arrow to go back one page. then it doesn't show up any
more that session.

In order to stop it it stops all Pop ups or pop overs . The way I'd
like to see it work. As soon as one of these things comes up, a message
would appear from SM or FF do you wish to ban forever the pop
up/popover. click yes/ or know the message would never show up
again. if
you answered yes it woul be permanently block if no, no action would be
taken.



The popup blocker in the Gecko-based browsers blocks actual popups,
which are separate pages. What I have been trying to describe are more
like tooltips within the page you are viewing.

Did you visit the National Hurricane Center pages I cited? If so, did
you hover your cursor over the storms shown on the maps?


I think the point is that the USER should be able to decide if he/she
wants these things obscuring what is being displayed, NOT the website
designer. I would like the ability to banish such popups, even if some
people find them helpful, should that suit my fancy.



Turn off javascript. At least on of the links David cited uses js to
create those "ballon" info pop-ups. Of course, you'll likely break other
aspects of the site navigation and experience but, hey, at least one
issue will be taken care of.

I am not into cutting off my nose to spite my face.  So much of the 
average webpage is JS that turning it off would defeat the purpose of 
surfing the internet at all.


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Re: Left and right arrow keys to go to previous/next.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/31/2010 9:56 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/31/10 5:41 AM, Phillip Jones wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 1:54 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 8/30/2010 12:13 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 7:35 AM, Ant wrote:

On 8/29/2010 3:54 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


I have the PrefBar extension installed for SeaMonkey.  I use the
JavaScript checkbox to disable JavaScript whenever I view the Huffington
Post, not because of what happens to navigation arrows but because of
the annoying same-window popups.  I also disable JavaScript for several
other news Web sites for the same reason.  The only problem is
remembering to enable JavaScript before I visit a page where it is
really needed.


Strange, I don't get pop-ups there but then I do use AdBlock Plus. Is
there a way to white and black lists web sites for JS? But then other
features on those web sites would break. Ugh!


The "popups" are not advertisements; they are not even true popups.
They are in the form of large tool-tips, comments on the item over which
the cursor is hovering.  Thus, AdBlock Plus (which I too use) will not
block them.  Although they are not ads, they are very annoying because
they often hide adjacent content.


My own personal definition of a 'popup' is ANYTHING that appears over
already present display information that is not requested by the user.
It really doesn't matter if it is advertisement, or not.  If it obscures
content, and is not requested, then it is a popup.  It appears that
Firefox devs need to reassess the current state of such distractions to
see if they can be prevented.  This is just another of those 'arms
races' where advertisers, and others, seek to override the user's
preferences as to how they view content.



I visit a number of Web pages where the tooltip type of "popup" happens
to be important.

Go to<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/>.  Hover your cursor over a tropical
storm.  You will get a popup that provides a summary about that storm.
Currently, at<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml?epac>, the map shows
a low-pressure area that is not yet a storm.  The popup for that
low-pressure area provides an estimated probability of whether it will
become a tropical storm.



Nice example of a "good" use of the function.  Unfortunately, it is all
to often sorely abused.


Doesn't SM And Firefox both have pop-up blockers? and aren't they
already setup so you can white list legit Pop-ups such as for example
the weather websites.

Only item I woul love to permanent kill is the NetFlix ad opens every
time you open another website. I believe they have infiltrated  the
various sites without knowledge of the website owner. For example cNet,
ZDnet, and Computerworld news. as long as your on the main page fine (it
already has small ads which ignore). But as soon as I go to read an
article, bam!, up comes the NetFix ad, and the only way I can get rid of
it, is use back arrow to go back one page. then it doesn't show up any
more that session.

In order to stop it  it stops all Pop ups or pop overs . The way I'd
like to see it work. As soon as one of these things comes up, a message
would appear from SM or FF do you wish to ban forever the pop
up/popover. click yes/ or know the message would never show up again. if
you answered yes it woul be permanently block if no, no action would be
taken.



The popup blocker in the Gecko-based browsers blocks actual popups,
which are separate pages.  What I have been trying to describe are more
like tooltips within the page you are viewing.

Did you visit the National Hurricane Center pages I cited?  If so, did
you hover your cursor over the storms shown on the maps?

I think the point is that the USER should be able to decide if he/she 
wants these things obscuring what is being displayed, NOT the website 
designer.  I would like the ability to banish such popups, even if some 
people find them helpful, should that suit my fancy.


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Re: Left and right arrow keys to go to previous/next.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/30/2010 9:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 1:54 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

On 8/30/2010 12:13 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 7:35 AM, Ant wrote:

On 8/29/2010 3:54 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


I have the PrefBar extension installed for SeaMonkey.  I use the
JavaScript checkbox to disable JavaScript whenever I view the Huffington
Post, not because of what happens to navigation arrows but because of
the annoying same-window popups.  I also disable JavaScript for several
other news Web sites for the same reason.  The only problem is
remembering to enable JavaScript before I visit a page where it is
really needed.


Strange, I don't get pop-ups there but then I do use AdBlock Plus. Is
there a way to white and black lists web sites for JS? But then other
features on those web sites would break. Ugh!


The "popups" are not advertisements; they are not even true popups.
They are in the form of large tool-tips, comments on the item over which
the cursor is hovering.  Thus, AdBlock Plus (which I too use) will not
block them.  Although they are not ads, they are very annoying because
they often hide adjacent content.


My own personal definition of a 'popup' is ANYTHING that appears over
already present display information that is not requested by the user.
It really doesn't matter if it is advertisement, or not.  If it obscures
content, and is not requested, then it is a popup.  It appears that
Firefox devs need to reassess the current state of such distractions to
see if they can be prevented.  This is just another of those 'arms
races' where advertisers, and others, seek to override the user's
preferences as to how they view content.



I visit a number of Web pages where the tooltip type of "popup" happens
to be important.

Go to<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/>.  Hover your cursor over a tropical
storm.  You will get a popup that provides a summary about that storm.
Currently, at<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml?epac>, the map shows
a low-pressure area that is not yet a storm.  The popup for that
low-pressure area provides an estimated probability of whether it will
become a tropical storm.

I don't really like that kind of presentation.  I would rather it put 
the information at the bottom, in an area set aside for such 
information.  Just  a personal preference.

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Re: Left and right arrow keys to go to previous/next.

[Ron Hunter]

On 8/30/2010 12:13 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/30/10 7:35 AM, Ant wrote:

On 8/29/2010 3:54 PM PT, David E. Ross typed:


I have the PrefBar extension installed for SeaMonkey.  I use the
JavaScript checkbox to disable JavaScript whenever I view the Huffington
Post, not because of what happens to navigation arrows but because of
the annoying same-window popups.  I also disable JavaScript for several
other news Web sites for the same reason.  The only problem is
remembering to enable JavaScript before I visit a page where it is
really needed.


Strange, I don't get pop-ups there but then I do use AdBlock Plus. Is
there a way to white and black lists web sites for JS? But then other
features on those web sites would break. Ugh!


The "popups" are not advertisements; they are not even true popups.
They are in the form of large tool-tips, comments on the item over which
the cursor is hovering.  Thus, AdBlock Plus (which I too use) will not
block them.  Although they are not ads, they are very annoying because
they often hide adjacent content.

My own personal definition of a 'popup' is ANYTHING that appears over 
already present display information that is not requested by the user. 
It really doesn't matter if it is advertisement, or not.  If it obscures 
content, and is not requested, then it is a popup.  It appears that 
Firefox devs need to reassess the current state of such distractions to 
see if they can be prevented.  This is just another of those 'arms 
races' where advertisers, and others, seek to override the user's 
preferences as to how they view content.


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Re: Back to 1.18

[Ron Hunter]

On 12/28/2009 10:07 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

On 27.12.2009 23:55, Ken Rudolph wrote:

--- Original Message ---


I have to say that last week I experienced the identical BSOD to the
above while running SM 2.0.1. It's one of the only times in 28 years of
running DOS and Windows on 11 different computers that this has
happened. It hasn't recurred so far and my fingers are crossed.


Interesting .. 28 years puts you at 1981, six years *prior* to the
release of Windows 2.0 ... :-D

And of course MS-DOS IBM PC Compatible was released in 1981 but didn't
produce any BSOD's that I can remember. And in fact I still have a NEW
copy of MS-DOS first release in a sealed box as well as Windows 2.0 in a
new sealed box. Hmmm, eBAY ?? :-)

Followup set to .general

Reminds me of when I got out of the Air Force, job ads were asking for 
people with 5 years experience on the IBM 360-30.  That was in 1968, and 
the 360-30 came out in 1964.  sigh.



--
Ron Hunter - rphun...@charter.net
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Re: Google Maps' Zoom Out (-)

[Ron Hunter]

Ant wrote:

On 11/1/2009 8:13 AM PT, propman typed:


Ant wrote:

On 11/1/2009 1:04 AM PT, propman typed:

It wasn't working for me with FF 3.5.3, didn't check on it with FF 
2.5.4 but it works fine now with FF 3.6b1 here..


Firefox v2.5.4??? I thought the last v2 was 2.0.0.20.


Typoshould have been 3.5.4


Interesting. I wonder what bug was fixed in v3.5.4 over v3.5.3. I wonder 
if SM v1.1.x will get a fix too? I am sure SM2 (haven't upgraded yet0 
has no problems.


Well, it worked here in 3.5.3 and 3.5.4, and works in 3.6b1.  Something 
in the prefs.js file?  Who knows?

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Re: Google Maps' Zoom Out (-)

[Ron Hunter]

Ant wrote:

On 10/9/2009 9:18 PM PT, Ant typed:

Clicking on the slider bar just above the '-' also works.  It seems 
like just the button itself is dead. The '+' works fine.


Yeah. Still annoying. Oh well. I hope Google fixes this soon!


Still unresolved according to others and me in 
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/maps/thread?tid=175c294b69535ab5&hl=en 
... :( I never got a reply from Google privately either via its contact 
support either. :(


Works here.  Local settings, drivers, etc.  Those having the problem 
should share their configurations looking for commonalities.

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Re: Google Maps' Zoom Out (-)

[Ron Hunter]

John wrote:

MN wrote:

John wrote:

Ant wrote:

Hello!

Is anyone else having problems with Google Maps' - graphic to zoom 
out of map area view? I noticed in both Mozilla's SeaMonkey v1.1.18 
and Firefox v2.0.0.20 on two updated Windows XP Pro. machines. It 
worked in fine in the past and in Internet Explorer v6.0.


Thank you in advance. :)


Yes! Same problem here on multiple machines with SM 1.1.18, but it 
works  correctly with IE8. You can still zoom out by moving the 
slider down, but clicking on the "-" button at the bottom hasn't been 
working for weeks.


John


Clicking on the slider bar just above the '-' also works.  It seems 
like just the button itself is dead. The '+' works fine.


Dave


I have also noticed that while the problem still exists on 
maps.google.com, on some other sites which have Google maps as an 
embedded application it works correctly.


An example of this is www.qrz.com, a look-up site for ham radio 
operators. Put "W1AW" in the search window and when the address 
information is displayed click on "Click for more detail..." The zoom 
features on the resulting map work fine with SeaMonkey v1.1.18.


John
I use google maps on two different computers, and there is never a 
problem with either the + or the -.  Maybe you need to look at your 
local settings.  Perhaps something is getting in the way of the application.

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Re: Rendering problem in Firefox v2.0.0.20 and SeaMonkey v1.1.17.

[Ron Hunter]

G. R. Woodring wrote:

Date: 7/16/2009 12:21 PM, Author: David E. Ross  Wrote:

On 7/15/2009 9:59 PM, Ant wrote:

On 7/15/2009 8:38 AM PT, David E. Ross typed:
I noticed lately Gizmodo's Web pages are rendering slowly and hogging 
Web browser's CPU and memory badly.


Example: 
http://gizmodo.com/5313690/why-you-cant-complain-about-the-price-of-todays-gadgets


Is anyone else having this problem? If so, then what's going on? Thank 
you in advance. :)
  
on FF 1.5.0.9 / XP-SP2 that URL is a crapper... there is a script 
running that refuses to be killed, so I closed FF, disabled JavaScript 
and re-opened the URL it works properly that way for me.

Try disabling JS, see what happens your end!

reg

I've seen Web pages with scripts that, when rendering of the page is
done, a script then downloads additional scripts from a server.
Sometimes it seems that one of the addtional scripts then downloads even
more scripts.  Since I have a dial-up Internet connection, this really
slows things down.

The Web site for the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) is one such site.  I
generally disable JavaScript when viewing pages at that site.  However,
I must enable JavaScript for certain pages to complete transactions or
view account statements.

Did you ever e-mail the Web team over there? If so, then any luck? :(

There is also a problem with viewing parts of the Vanguard site with
SeaMonkey, caused by sniffing for "Firefox" and not "Gecko".  See bug
#417955 at .

I sent E-mail to the Web team, I called them on the phone, and I sent a
postal letter to the CEO.  They claim that the security of their Web
site requires that they test the site for any browser they allow to view
it.  (After all, Vanguard is one of the two largest mutual fund groups
in the U.S.)  They tested the site for Firefox but not for SeaMonkey.
They don't agree that "Gecko is Gecko".  As for the delays caused by the
use of scripts that download more scripts, their response was that I
should use broadband service instead of dial-up.

As for the sniffing for "Firefox", I ran into the same problem with my
bank and my credit union.  I "solved" the problem by creating a special
SeaMonkey profile where I am permanently spoofing Firefox.  (The UA
string ends with "SeaMonkey/1.1.17 NOT Firefox/2.0.0.20".)  To make
these sites work, I also had to set my preferences to accept all cookies
and all popups.  I am careful not to browse any other sites from that
profile.



Someone should explain to the morons that browser sniffing has absolutely *NO* 
security benefits.  Opera has UA spoofing built in, all Mozilla products have UA 
switcher extensions available but it can be without one, and even IE8 has a UA 
picker that can spoof as Firefox, Netscape or even a cell phone.  Sniffing for 
the UA string is like saying that if you are clever enough to write "Employee" 
on a 3x5 card and wear it on your lapel, you are free to enter and leave the 
safe it will :-(


My company's website "requires" IE5.5+ or Netscape 7.1+.  I set up a profile to 
spoof as Netscape 7.2 and happily access the site with Minefield 3.6a :-)



Then there are the sites, run by a large software/OS company, that sniff 
to determine if you are using a rival browser and make sure the display 
is just enough 'off' to make like unpleasant.  That kind of thing is 
just petty, and juvenile.

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