Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Dirk Munk]

Daniel wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 4/10/2018 6:27 PM:

Daniel wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 30/09/2018 9:17 PM:

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt 
the message with "Security", assuming you and the other party 
have set up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always 
send encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send 
encrypted if possible", which means the mail program has to 
look if a certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted 
if a certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then 
one could add any information of any sort in there. The MacOS 
contact list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from 
end point to end point. For instance emails between me and my 
doctor. Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email 
traffic between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I 
should not have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get 
encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to 
exchange the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a 
signed email message, and he has to send me a signed email message 
as well. As soon as I receive his signed email message, its 
certificate will be stored on my computer. My certificate will have 
been stored on his computer.


 From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.

Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then 
mail could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. 
When found, mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an 
entry to the address book, everything is done automatically.


The whole idea of encrypted messaging intregees me!!

Let's say you, Dirk, and I want to talk encrypted. I might give you 
a Plain language call saying lets go encrypted. You send me your key 
and I send you mine, and we're off and communicating.


However, if someone else is "watching", be it on my computer, on 
your computer or somewhere in between, they also have both keys, so 
can "see" what we're saying.


Or am I mis-understanding the situation?? (That's a definite 
possibility!!)


This is how it works.

First you obtain an email certificate, for instance from Comodo:

https://www.comodo.com/home/email-security/free-email-certificate.php

You will get an email with a clickable link. It will load the 
certificate on your PC.


Remember that you have to obtain a certificate for each email account 
you want to secure!


You then go to the account of this email address in Edit > Mail & 
Newsgroup Account Settings


Click on Security, and a small window will open.

Now you can select the certificate with 'Digital Signing' and 
'Encryption'.


You can choose the setting 'Digitally sign messages (by default)', 
but I noticed that there are email programs that can't handle signed 
messages properly, and will garble attachments.


Now compose a small message to the other party you want to exchange 
encrypted messages with. Before you send it, choose "Digitally Sign 
This Message' from the Security tab in your compose window.


The other party has to follow the same steps.

Once you have exchanged these first two signed messages, you can send 
another message, but choose 'Encrypt This Message'. The message will 
now be send encrypted, and can not be read anywhere except on the 
end-points. So if your provider has a web interface for your mail 
account, these messages will not turn up as readable there.


"... and can not be read anywhere except on the end-points" ... or by 
anybody who was "listening" when the "Digital Signing" certificates 
were obtained/exchanged!




Obtained, I don't know. Exchanged not, as far as I know. Normally these 
keys are a pair, a public key you exchange, and a private key that is 
stored on your PC.

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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Daniel]

Dirk Munk wrote on 4/10/2018 6:27 PM:

Daniel wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 30/09/2018 9:17 PM:

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt 
the message with "Security", assuming you and the other party 
have set up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always 
send encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted 
if possible", which means the mail program has to look if a 
certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a 
certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then 
one could add any information of any sort in there. The MacOS 
contact list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from 
end point to end point. For instance emails between me and my 
doctor. Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email 
traffic between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I 
should not have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get 
encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to 
exchange the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a 
signed email message, and he has to send me a signed email message as 
well. As soon as I receive his signed email message, its certificate 
will be stored on my computer. My certificate will have been stored 
on his computer.


 From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.

Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail 
could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When 
found, mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry 
to the address book, everything is done automatically.


The whole idea of encrypted messaging intregees me!!

Let's say you, Dirk, and I want to talk encrypted. I might give you a 
Plain language call saying lets go encrypted. You send me your key and 
I send you mine, and we're off and communicating.


However, if someone else is "watching", be it on my computer, on your 
computer or somewhere in between, they also have both keys, so can 
"see" what we're saying.


Or am I mis-understanding the situation?? (That's a definite 
possibility!!)


This is how it works.

First you obtain an email certificate, for instance from Comodo:

https://www.comodo.com/home/email-security/free-email-certificate.php

You will get an email with a clickable link. It will load the 
certificate on your PC.


Remember that you have to obtain a certificate for each email account 
you want to secure!


You then go to the account of this email address in Edit > Mail & 
Newsgroup Account Settings


Click on Security, and a small window will open.

Now you can select the certificate with 'Digital Signing' and 'Encryption'.

You can choose the setting 'Digitally sign messages (by default)', but I 
noticed that there are email programs that can't handle signed messages 
properly, and will garble attachments.


Now compose a small message to the other party you want to exchange 
encrypted messages with. Before you send it, choose "Digitally Sign This 
Message' from the Security tab in your compose window.


The other party has to follow the same steps.

Once you have exchanged these first two signed messages, you can send 
another message, but choose 'Encrypt This Message'. The message will now 
be send encrypted, and can not be read anywhere except on the 
end-points. So if your provider has a web interface for your mail 
account, these messages will not turn up as readable there.


"... and can not be read anywhere except on the end-points" ... or by 
anybody who was "listening" when the "Digital Signing" certificates were 
obtained/exchanged!


--
Daniel

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SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


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SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Dirk Munk]

Daniel wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 30/09/2018 9:17 PM:

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt 
the message with "Security", assuming you and the other party 
have set up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always 
send encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted 
if possible", which means the mail program has to look if a 
certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a 
certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then 
one could add any information of any sort in there. The MacOS 
contact list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from 
end point to end point. For instance emails between me and my 
doctor. Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email 
traffic between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I 
should not have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get 
encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to 
exchange the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a 
signed email message, and he has to send me a signed email message as 
well. As soon as I receive his signed email message, its certificate 
will be stored on my computer. My certificate will have been stored 
on his computer.


 From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.

Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail 
could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When 
found, mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry 
to the address book, everything is done automatically.


The whole idea of encrypted messaging intregees me!!

Let's say you, Dirk, and I want to talk encrypted. I might give you a 
Plain language call saying lets go encrypted. You send me your key and 
I send you mine, and we're off and communicating.


However, if someone else is "watching", be it on my computer, on your 
computer or somewhere in between, they also have both keys, so can 
"see" what we're saying.


Or am I mis-understanding the situation?? (That's a definite 
possibility!!)


This is how it works.

First you obtain an email certificate, for instance from Comodo:

https://www.comodo.com/home/email-security/free-email-certificate.php

You will get an email with a clickable link. It will load the 
certificate on your PC.


Remember that you have to obtain a certificate for each email account 
you want to secure!


You then go to the account of this email address in Edit > Mail & 
Newsgroup Account Settings


Click on Security, and a small window will open.

Now you can select the certificate with 'Digital Signing' and 'Encryption'.

You can choose the setting 'Digitally sign messages (by default)', but I 
noticed that there are email programs that can't handle signed messages 
properly, and will garble attachments.


Now compose a small message to the other party you want to exchange 
encrypted messages with. Before you send it, choose "Digitally Sign This 
Message' from the Security tab in your compose window.


The other party has to follow the same steps.

Once you have exchanged these first two signed messages, you can send 
another message, but choose 'Encrypt This Message'. The message will now 
be send encrypted, and can not be read anywhere except on the 
end-points. So if your provider has a web interface for your mail 
account, these messages will not turn up as readable there.




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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Lee]

On 10/1/18, Daniel  wrote:
> Dirk Munk wrote on 30/09/2018 9:17 PM:
>> meagain wrote:
>>>  Original Message 
 EE wrote:
> Dirk Munk wrote:
>> When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the
>> message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set
>> up Digital Signing.
>>
>> It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send
>> encrypted" with every address book entry.
>>
>> An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if
>> possible", which means the mail program has to look if a
>> certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a
>> certificate has been found.
>
> What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then one
> could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact
> list has a Notes area and it is very useful.
>
 Thank you, but that is not the point.

 For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end
 point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor.
 Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic
 between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not
 have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.
>>>
>>> You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like
>>> "prefers to receive mail as " .
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, that would be an option.
>>
>> However, I also have an alternative option.
>>
>> When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to exchange
>> the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a signed email
>> message, and he has to send me a signed email message as well. As soon
>> as I receive his signed email message, its certificate will be stored on
>> my computer. My certificate will have been stored on his computer.
>>
>>  From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.
>>
>> Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail
>> could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When found,
>> mail could automatically send the message encrypted.
>>
>> That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry to
>> the address book, everything is done automatically.
>
> The whole idea of encrypted messaging intregees me!!
>
> Let's say you, Dirk, and I want to talk encrypted. I might give you a
> Plain language call saying lets go encrypted. You send me your key and I
> send you mine, and we're off and communicating.
>
> However, if someone else is "watching", be it on my computer, on your
> computer or somewhere in between, they also have both keys, so can "see"
> what we're saying.
>
> Or am I mis-understanding the situation?? (That's a definite possibility!!)

Conceptually it's pretty simple.  It starts with public key cryptography
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography
where you generate your "key pair"
- a public key that you give out; others use that key to encrypt messages to you
- a private key that you keep secret and use for decrypting messages

So far, so good, but how do you get someone's public key?  Best is to
exchange keys in person, but doing that can be anywhere from trivial
to impossible, so somebody came up with the idea of a key signing
party to build a 'web of trust'.  eg
  https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2018-September/001994.html

So we're cool now - right?  You've got a public key for encrypting
mail to someone & a private key for decrypting received mail.  But who
wants to deal with creating/saving email attachments and doing command
line crap like
  gpg -e -a -r NAME < FILE
  gpg -d FILE
for every single msg?  ick.  triple ick.  Way too much manual labor,
so we're off to
  http://www.secure-my-email.com/intro_to_openpgp.php
to learn how to do encryption in the email client.  yay!

But.. Oh Noes!!  https://efail.de/

So you go looking & find stuff like
  https://ssd.eff.org/en/blog/how-turn-pgp-back-safely-possible
and decide that it's safe to go back to automatically handling encrypted mail.

Which gets us back to
> It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send
> encrypted" with every address book entry.
to help prevent those Oh Noes!! moments when you send something
without encryption.

Regards,
Lee
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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Daniel]

Dirk Munk wrote on 30/09/2018 9:17 PM:

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set 
up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a 
certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a 
certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then one 
could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact 
list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end 
point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor. 
Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic 
between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not 
have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to exchange 
the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a signed email 
message, and he has to send me a signed email message as well. As soon 
as I receive his signed email message, its certificate will be stored on 
my computer. My certificate will have been stored on his computer.


 From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.

Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail 
could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When found, 
mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry to 
the address book, everything is done automatically.


The whole idea of encrypted messaging intregees me!!

Let's say you, Dirk, and I want to talk encrypted. I might give you a 
Plain language call saying lets go encrypted. You send me your key and I 
send you mine, and we're off and communicating.


However, if someone else is "watching", be it on my computer, on your 
computer or somewhere in between, they also have both keys, so can "see" 
what we're saying.


Or am I mis-understanding the situation?? (That's a definite possibility!!)
--
Daniel

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SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[mozilla-lists . mbourne]

Dirk Munk wrote:

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set 
up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a 
certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a 
certificate has been found.

...
For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end 
point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor. 
Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic 
between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not 
have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to exchange 
the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a signed email 
message, and he has to send me a signed email message as well. As soon 
as I receive his signed email message, its certificate will be stored on 
my computer. My certificate will have been stored on his computer.


 From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.


For various reasons, it's not recommended to use the same keypair for 
both encryption and signing.


Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail 
could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When found, 
mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry to 
the address book, everything is done automatically.


With this scheme, what happens when the public key / certificate you 
hold for the recipient expires, or is somehow deleted for any reason? 
From that point on, you no longer hold a key for that recipient, so 
future emails would be sent UNencrypted without any warning.


It probably would be better to set a flag in the address book indicating 
that all messages to that recipient should be encrypted, and get an 
error or warning if that's not possible for any reason. I'm not entirely 
sure if that would be 100% reliable either, for example if you enter the 
email address directly rather than selecting the address book entry, or 
if you end up with two entries for that recipient (e.g. one you've set 
up and one in "Collected Addresses") but only one is flagged for 
encryption. For a HTML/text preference, it's not so critical if the 
occasional message if sent with the wrong setting, but for encryption 
you'd want to be sure it's always used.


While it's useful to discuss ideas on this list, the best place to 
submit feature requests is on SeaMonkey's bug tracker at 
 (please search for similar existing 
requests before submitting a new one). At the moment, the SeaMonkey 
developers are struggling just to keep up with changes being made by 
Mozilla to the Firefox code SeaMonkey is based on, so I wouldn't expect 
requests for new features to be implemented very quickly, but putting it 
on the bug tracker means it's less likely to be completely forgotten.


--
Mark.

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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Dirk Munk]

meagain wrote:

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set 
up Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a 
certificate has been stored, and then send encrypted if a 
certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there? Then one 
could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact 
list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end 
point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor. 
Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic 
between us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not 
have to choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like 
"prefers to receive mail as " .




Yes, that would be an option.

However, I also have an alternative option.

When you want to send each other encrypted emails, you have to exchange 
the certificates first. So I have to send the recipient a signed email 
message, and he has to send me a signed email message as well. As soon 
as I receive his signed email message, its certificate will be stored on 
my computer. My certificate will have been stored on his computer.


From that moment on we can send each other encrypted email messages.

Now suppose I want to send this recipient an email message. Then mail 
could look in the stored certificates for his certificate. When found, 
mail could automatically send the message encrypted.


That is an even cleaner way of setting it up. No need to add an entry to 
the address book, everything is done automatically.

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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[meagain]

 Original Message 

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set up 
Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a certificate 
has been stored, and then send encrypted if a certificate has been 
found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there?  Then one 
could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact 
list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end 
point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor. 
Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic between 
us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not have to 
choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.


You want this feature setup on a per-recipient basis just like "prefers 
to receive mail as " .



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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Dirk Munk]

EE wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set up 
Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a certificate 
has been stored, and then send encrypted if a certificate has been 
found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there?  Then one 
could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact 
list has a Notes area and it is very useful.



Thank you, but that is not the point.

For legal reasons, certain email traffic must be encrypted, from end 
point to end point. For instance emails between me and my doctor. 
Assuming we have both set up digital signing, any email traffic between 
us should *always* be encrypted, automatically. I should not have to 
choose Security > Encrypt This Message to get encryption.

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Re: Request for small new feature in Address Book

[EE]

Dirk Munk wrote:
When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set up 
Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a certificate has 
been stored, and then send encrypted if a certificate has been found.


What about just having a general "Notes" section in there?  Then one 
could add any information of any sort in there.  The MacOS contact list 
has a Notes area and it is very useful.


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Request for small new feature in Address Book

[Dirk Munk]

When you want to send a message, you have the option to encrypt the 
message with "Security", assuming you and the other party have set up 
Digital Signing.


It would be a nice feature if you could have an option "always send 
encrypted" with every address book entry.


An alternative would be a general setting "always send encrypted if 
possible", which means the mail program has to look if a certificate has 
been stored, and then send encrypted if a certificate has been found.

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