Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread David Pickett

At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote:

>Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and cost
>very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response)
>which is probably good for spatial audio.

Good off axis response, i.e. uncoloured response, is presumably a 
good thing.  But, intuitively, I should have thought that the more 
playback channels you have, the less desirable any off axis response 
would be.  Is this not so?


David

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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and cost
very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response)
which is probably good for spatial audio. Speaker guru Earl Geddes measured
them flatter than his own speakers.  The yamaha hs8 is also popular as a
studio Monitor and cheap . Adam 7x more expensive but seems popular too as
does the aforementioned neuman . I guess I'm trying to echo Ericsson
sentiment - more expensive is not always better.

On Wednesday, 14 October 2015, Eric Benjamin  wrote:

> All of my spatial sound research has been self funded. As such, I'm
> very sensitive to the budgetary issues. I had initially selected the
> then-current genelec 1028a for my array, but then I discovered that the JBL
> lsr25 had flatter response, greater low frequency extension, more acoustic
> output, and cost half as much. The pricing was such that JBL was far
> cheaper here than in Europe.
>
> So, based on that, have a look at the LSR308. It's $250 instead of
> $350 for the genelec, and has an 8" woofer instead of a 3"
> woofer. Give it a listen!
>
> Eric
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Eric Benjamin
All of my spatial sound research has been self funded. As such, I'm very 
sensitive to the budgetary issues. I had initially selected the then-current 
genelec 1028a for my array, but then I discovered that the JBL lsr25 had 
flatter response, greater low frequency extension, more acoustic output, and 
cost half as much. The pricing was such that JBL was far cheaper here than in 
Europe.

So, based on that, have a look at the LSR308. It's $250 instead of $350 for 
the genelec, and has an 8" woofer instead of a 3" woofer. Give it a 
listen!

Eric
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier

On 10/14/2015 07:51 PM, Charles Veasey wrote:

Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution I'd like. My
budget is ~$30-40k.

If the 8010s seem too weak, then maybe something like the Genelec 8030B or
Meyer MM-4XPD.


I have been unimpressed by the passive Meyer MM4s, plus the single 
wide-band speaker is costly to replace when it blows. Don't know the XPD.


I'd say go with either small Genelecs (8020 should fit the budget), or 
check out the Neumann KH120. Both come with a nice range of mounting 
options, which will help reduce the installation costs and make the 
system more flexible.


There is also a new line of triax Genelecs coming up, but I don't know 
if they make small ones (yet).


I've used the Neumanns for a very nice 40-channel setup:
https://stackingdwarves.net/public_stuff/linux_audio/icsa2011/neumann-fotos/6-rigging.jpg

The IEM Graz has used the Genelec 8020 to build their MAMBA mobile 
Ambisonics system that has delivered very well at EAA, AES, and ICSA 
conferences:

http://iem.kug.ac.at/darmstadt2014/international-summer-course-for-new-music-darmstadt-2014/mamba.html

The speaker management of the more expensive Genelecs is neat, but if 
you have the skills in-house to do room equalisation, you can save a lot 
of money by doing it the old-fashioned way.



Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
RayDAT and M-32
DA / M-16 DA


I would strongly recommend a HDSP MADI in combination with a Directout 
Andiamo 2 DA, designed by the same guy who used to make the RME MADI 
gear. ADAT is not very reliable stuff, plus it requires the machines to 
be close together, 10m max unless you want to test your luck.


If you need a cheaper but less hi-end option, Ferrofish make a very 
useful 16 channel AD/DA that has MADI and ADAT I/O.


34 channels is always nasty

And there is a lot to be said for four subs instead of two.

Maybe you should consider 28 tops and four subs, that way the conversion 
is more cost-effective.



All best,


Jörn




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Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
apart from genelec and PMC another speaker I see quite often in these kind
of facilities is the Mackie hr824 - the new mark 2 measures well. You can
check anechoic measurements (time and frequency response) of various
different speaker manufacturers here :

http://resolution.nodecube.net/products/products_subcategory.php?subcat=Monitoring

best,
Gus

On 14 October 2015 at 19:48, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> The rme raydat hdspe only costs £420 (600 dollarsish) amazing value I
> thought.
>
> On 14 October 2015 at 19:36, David Pickett  wrote:
>
>> At 19:51 14-10-15, Charles Veasey wrote:
>>
>> >Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
>> >RayDAT and M-32
>> >DA / M-16 DA
>>
>> I can say from experience that RME interfaces are first class.  They meet
>> their specs, are reliable, and you can easily get directly in touch with
>> the company through their user forum.  The only downsides are expense (in
>> my opinion, worth it for something that is so solid) and the manuals.: if
>> you read German you are OK, but some of the English translations are a bit
>> of a challenge to a native English speaker.  Neither of these downsides is
>> any reason not to buy, however.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
The rme raydat hdspe only costs £420 (600 dollarsish) amazing value I
thought.

On 14 October 2015 at 19:36, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 19:51 14-10-15, Charles Veasey wrote:
>
> >Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
> >RayDAT and M-32
> >DA / M-16 DA
>
> I can say from experience that RME interfaces are first class.  They meet
> their specs, are reliable, and you can easily get directly in touch with
> the company through their user forum.  The only downsides are expense (in
> my opinion, worth it for something that is so solid) and the manuals.: if
> you read German you are OK, but some of the English translations are a bit
> of a challenge to a native English speaker.  Neither of these downsides is
> any reason not to buy, however.
>
> David
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread David Pickett

At 19:51 14-10-15, Charles Veasey wrote:

>Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
>RayDAT and M-32
>DA / M-16 DA

I can say from experience that RME interfaces are first class.  They 
meet their specs, are reliable, and you can easily get directly in 
touch with the company through their user forum.  The only downsides 
are expense (in my opinion, worth it for something that is so solid) 
and the manuals.: if you read German you are OK, but some of the 
English translations are a bit of a challenge to a native English 
speaker.  Neither of these downsides is any reason not to buy, however.


David

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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
ps I have the RME raydat - its a great card - you will need the ADAT
converters as well if you dont already. I had behringer ada8000 but they
blew quite often - a power issue which newer versions dont have. Howver the
new 8200 have no such issues and reportably midas preamps. ada8000 about
150 dollars each 8200 around 250 dollars

On 14 October 2015 at 19:32, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> you might want to consider the PMC tb2s   the are nice speakers . You can
> get an active pair for around 1500 dollars. 8010 will have no bottom end
> its tiny.
>
> On 14 October 2015 at 18:51, Charles Veasey 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution I'd like. My
>> budget is ~$30-40k.
>>
>> If the 8010s seem too weak, then maybe something like the Genelec 8030B or
>> Meyer MM-4XPD.
>>
>> Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
>> RayDAT and M-32
>> DA / M-16 DA
>>
>> thanks,
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Augustine Leudar <
>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
>> > have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32
>> > speakers.
>> > For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
>> > ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
>> >
>> > For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
>> >
>> > On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd
>> like
>> > to
>> > > get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
>> > > thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
>> > >
>> > > However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only
>> > $350.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
>> > > situation?
>> > >
>> > > thanks,
>> > > Charles
>> > > -- next part --
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
you might want to consider the PMC tb2s   the are nice speakers . You can
get an active pair for around 1500 dollars. 8010 will have no bottom end
its tiny.

On 14 October 2015 at 18:51, Charles Veasey 
wrote:

> Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution I'd like. My
> budget is ~$30-40k.
>
> If the 8010s seem too weak, then maybe something like the Genelec 8030B or
> Meyer MM-4XPD.
>
> Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
> RayDAT and M-32
> DA / M-16 DA
>
> thanks,
> Charles
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
> > have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32
> > speakers.
> > For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
> > ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
> >
> > For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
> >
> > On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd
> like
> > to
> > > get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
> > > thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
> > >
> > > However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only
> > $350.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
> > > situation?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Charles
> > > -- next part --
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > >
> >
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> > > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Martin Richards


Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:31, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> 
> Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
> have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers.
> For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
> ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
> 
> For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
> 
> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to
>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
>> 
>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350.
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
>> situation?
>> 
>> thanks,
>> Charles
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html
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> 
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Ilpo Martikainen
Regarding the room response, delay etc. correction, which would be beneficial 
in this application, the smallest Genelec model having these features is 8320 
(4 in woofer). Next is 8330 with a 5in woofer. 

Best regards,

Ilpo Martikainen

> On 14 Oct 2015, at 20:31, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> 
> Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
> have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers.
> For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
> ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
> 
> For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
> 
> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to
>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
>> 
>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350.
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
>> situation?
>> 
>> thanks,
>> Charles
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Eero Aro

Hi

My current speakers are Genelec 8040's. The sub is 7050B, although it isn't
intended to be used with the 8040:s. I use a designated cross-over for 
the sub.

The 8040 goes down to 48 Hz, so the sub actually only takes care of the
first two octaves.

The stereo imaging is very good. I have also built during the years a lot of
surround setups with Genelec speakers, mainly used S30 Triamps and 1030:s.

I now use the speakers for audio restoration, so I need very accurate 
reproduction

of very tiny details. That's one reason why I chose Genelecs.

Ok - I am Finnish and Genelec is Finnish, so you have the right to think 
that I
am biased. I have been using Genelec loudspeakers from the beginning of 
1980's,

but I don't have any connection with the company or their business.

I have no experience of Behringer speakers, so I cannot compare.

Eero
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Charles Veasey
Yes, those are too expensive given the spatial resolution I'd like. My
budget is ~$30-40k.

If the 8010s seem too weak, then maybe something like the Genelec 8030B or
Meyer MM-4XPD.

Also, for the computer interface, I'm thinking about RME's HDSPe
RayDAT and M-32
DA / M-16 DA

thanks,
Charles



On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Augustine Leudar <
augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
> have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32
> speakers.
> For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
> ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
>
> For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
>
> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like
> to
> > get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
> > thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
> >
> > However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only
> $350.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
> > situation?
> >
> > thanks,
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Augustine Leudar
Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers.
For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
ridiculous holywood styled marketing :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E

For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.

On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to
> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
>
> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350.
>
> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
> situation?
>
> thanks,
> Charles
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[Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

2015-10-14 Thread Charles Veasey
Hello,

We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to
get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.

However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350.

Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
situation?

thanks,
Charles
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