Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Matthias Kronlachner]

Hi,

there is a preset for this in ambix_converter: ".amb / AMB plugins (full 
periphonic) / Tetraproc -> ambix".


Greets, Matthias

On 22/03/16 20:01, Steven Backer wrote:

Hi Martin,

If you’re already using ambiX, you might try looking at inserting the 
ambix_converter_o3 plugin between the TOACore outputs and the decoder inputs.  
It can easily take care of the conversion for you.  Note that in addition to 
channel ordering you also need to convert the normalization scheme from FuMa to 
SN3D (for input to ambiX).  The converter plugin does both.

-Steven



On Mar 22, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Martin Dupras  wrote:

Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.

I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
convention.

The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
(using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.

I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
I found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
But that didn't really work.

I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
again, that didn't really work well at all.

In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
number of positions went practically silent.

Any advice on where to go next?

Many thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Martin Dupras]

Thank you all for the very helpful tips. I will try those things tomorrow.

- martin


On 22 March 2016 at 18:49, Martin Dupras  wrote:
> Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
> hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
> intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.
>
> I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
> sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
> convention.
>
> The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
> (using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
> Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.
>
> I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
> convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
> I found here: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
> But that didn't really work.
>
> I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
> into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
> that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
> it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
> again, that didn't really work well at all.
>
> In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
> number of positions went practically silent.
>
> Any advice on where to go next?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> - martin
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Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 06:49:10PM +, Martin Dupras wrote:

> I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
> into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
> that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
> it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
> again, that didn't really work well at all.

Ambdec can use any combination of FuMa, SN3D or N3D for both the
coefficients and the input signals (if the two are not the same
the required conversion is done).

In the config file the coefficients must be in ACN order in each
row. 

Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 03/22/2016 07:49 PM, Martin Dupras wrote:

Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.

I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
convention.

The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
(using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.

I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
I found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
But that didn't really work.

I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
again, that didn't really work well at all.

In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
number of positions went practically silent.


To debug erratic panning behaviour, start with first order, verify, and 
work your way up from there. To make sure the error is not in your 
calculated coefficients, try to use a known-good decoding matrix that 
approximates what you have, before feeding in your optimized one.


With Ambdec, weird things can happen if you connect several ins at the 
same time using some graphical client, because the order shown in for 
example qjackctl is lexical, whereas the internal order is different. So 
you will end up with garbled connections. You can feed an ACN signal 
into ambdec succesfully if you choose SN3D input scaling _and_ manually 
connect the inputs correctly.

This wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats
has some information on that, and other pitfalls when interfacing 
different formats.



All best,


Jörn



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Steven Backer]

Hi Martin,

If you’re already using ambiX, you might try looking at inserting the 
ambix_converter_o3 plugin between the TOACore outputs and the decoder inputs.  
It can easily take care of the conversion for you.  Note that in addition to 
channel ordering you also need to convert the normalization scheme from FuMa to 
SN3D (for input to ambiX).  The converter plugin does both.

-Steven


> On Mar 22, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Martin Dupras  wrote:
> 
> Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
> hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
> intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.
> 
> I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
> sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
> convention.
> 
> The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
> (using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
> Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.
> 
> I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
> convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
> I found here: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
> But that didn't really work.
> 
> I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
> into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
> that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
> it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
> again, that didn't really work well at all.
> 
> In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
> number of positions went practically silent.
> 
> Any advice on where to go next?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> - martin
> ___
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[Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Martin Dupras]

Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.

I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
convention.

The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
(using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.

I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
I found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
But that didn't really work.

I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
again, that didn't really work well at all.

In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
number of positions went practically silent.

Any advice on where to go next?

Many thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] 3D7.1 speaker setup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have found that kef kht 2005 eggs are very good value when found second
hand.
The subs have problems with the power supply in the amps.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
On 22 Mar 2016 08:58, "Augustine Leudar" <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For basic sound design me the most sensible and basic peripheral array is a
> cube, quad around the listener and quad at height, perhaps with one in the
> middle behind the screen for film dialogue.
>
> On 22 March 2016 at 07:50, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > LS3s are good option and Earl Geddes himself rates them quite highly (as
> > he did the behringer truth) .  I wouldn't limit yourself to ambisonics ,
> > just normal  3d amplitude panning can get you equally good results.It
> also
> > depends why you are mixing in 3D audio - is it for your own listening
> > pleasure ? or is it to create content for games / film etc ?
> >
> > On 22 March 2016 at 03:24, Albert Leusink <alb...@tumbleandyaw.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe this got stuck in the haystack, but still would love to know if
> >> there
> >> are any opinions? Thanks !
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> >> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] 3D7.1 speaker setup

[Augustine Leudar]

For basic sound design me the most sensible and basic peripheral array is a
cube, quad around the listener and quad at height, perhaps with one in the
middle behind the screen for film dialogue.

On 22 March 2016 at 07:50, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> LS3s are good option and Earl Geddes himself rates them quite highly (as
> he did the behringer truth) .  I wouldn't limit yourself to ambisonics ,
> just normal  3d amplitude panning can get you equally good results.It also
> depends why you are mixing in 3D audio - is it for your own listening
> pleasure ? or is it to create content for games / film etc ?
>
> On 22 March 2016 at 03:24, Albert Leusink <alb...@tumbleandyaw.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe this got stuck in the haystack, but still would love to know if
>> there
>> are any opinions? Thanks !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
>
>


-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] 3D7.1 speaker setup

[Augustine Leudar]

LS3s are good option and Earl Geddes himself rates them quite highly (as he
did the behringer truth) .  I wouldn't limit yourself to ambisonics , just
normal  3d amplitude panning can get you equally good results.It also
depends why you are mixing in 3D audio - is it for your own listening
pleasure ? or is it to create content for games / film etc ?

On 22 March 2016 at 03:24, Albert Leusink <alb...@tumbleandyaw.com> wrote:

> Maybe this got stuck in the haystack, but still would love to know if there
> are any opinions? Thanks !
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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