[biofuels-biz] [biofuel] car production in Brazil
I wonder how many of these cars are built to be able to handle certain levels of ethanol-mixture: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020731/autos_brazil_tax_1.html Wednesday July 31, 8:20 pm Eastern Time Reuters Company News Brazil to reduce production tax on cars Thursday BRASILIA, Brazil, July 31 (Reuters) - The Brazilian Finance Ministry recommended on Wednesday that production taxes on passenger vehicles with small to medium-sized engines should be lowered immediately and said it expected President Fernando Henrique Cardoso to issue a decree to that effect on Thursday. ADVERTISEMENT The intent of the lowered tax rates, the ministry said, was to help the country's ailing automotive section sell and export more vehicles. A ministry statement said Cardoso had received a recommendation to lower the Industrial Production Tax (IPI) for cars with engines above 1,000 cubic centimeters (cc) and below 2,000 cc to 16 percent from 25 percent. Smaller, so-called "popular" cars with 1,000 cc motors will enjoy a much smaller tax cut -- to 9 percent from 10 percent. The move is aimed at making the auto industry diversify their production, now focused on the inexpensive "popular" cars, and produce more larger cars that can be more easily exported, thus helping to generate trade surplus, the statement said. It said "popular" cars accounted for 71 percent of overall production, while the industry was not using 36 percent of its overall installed capacity. The National Association of Vehicle Manufacturers (Anfavea) has said Brazilian sales of domestically made and imported cars, trucks and buses dropped 17.7 percent in the first six months of this year from the same period in 2001, pressured by an economic slowdown and high interest rates. U.S. car makers General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM - News) and Ford Motor Co (NYSE:F - News), Germany's Volkswagen AG (XETRA:VOWG.DE - News) and Italy's Fiat SpA (Milan:FIA.MI - News) all make cars in Brazil for local consumption and exports and dominate the market. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
Keith, Tom, et. al., The following Federal Register notice has some relevant information. Keith, this may be the notice you were referring to. I gleaned the following points: 1. Biodiesel (neat and blends) is considered a non-baseline diesel fuel. 2. There is no language that bars small-business biodiesel producers from the Tier 1 and Tier 2 testing exemptions. 3. All categories of biodiesel are considered similar for testing purposes (at this time). Now, this afternoon I got a message from Joe Sopata at EPA (lots of phone tag) in which he stated that any blend <= 6% biodiesel was considered a nonbaseline fuel, and anything over 6% was considered atypical, and therefore not subject to the Tier 1 exemption. The thing is, I can't find that definition in any EPA documents. What I find is what I have quoted below. EPA tests biodiesel at 100% as the representative group, and assumes that most applications will be a 20/80 blend. I don't know where this <6% rule comes from, but it may be a purely discretionary interpretation, and not a written rule issued as a regulation. So, Tom, I don't know how EPA could be threatening to shut you down on this basis. I'll keep checking. Thor The reference: [Federal Register: March 17, 1997 (Volume 62, Number 51)] [Rules and Regulations] [Page 12564-12572] From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov] [DOCID:fr17mr97-18] [selected snips] "Biodiesel fuels and most blends of bio-and conventional diesel fuel contain more than 1.0 weight percent oxygen and thus, according to Sec. 79.56(e)(3)(ii)(B), fall into the non-baseline diesel category. Under Sec. 79.56(e)(4)(ii)(B)(2), as adopted in May 1994, biodiesel fuels derived from vegetable oil (``mixed alkyl esters of plant origin'') are grouped separately from biodiesel fuels derived from animal fat (``mixed alkyl esters of animal origin'')." "In regard to selecting the biodiesel group representative, EPA has decided that 100 percent biofuel is most appropriate for the screening purposes of Tiers 1 and 2. EPA has received industry assurances, both in written comments (docket item VII-D-19) and in follow-up communications,\5\ that the use of 100 percent biofuel does not require significant engine modifications. Furthermore, while 20 percent biodiesel formulations are expected to predominate in the commercial marketplace during the short term, both lower and higher percent blends may see greater market penetration in the future." "While the available data are not comprehensive, EPA agrees with industry commenters that plant- and animal-derived biodiesel fuels appear to have generally similar chemical composition. [Accordingly] the Agency is today revising the grouping rule for biodiesel F/FAs to permit plant and animal biodiesel F/FAs to group together and be represented by one group representative for compliance with Tier 1 and Tier 2 testing requirements." "EPA has carefully considered the commenters' arguments in relation to other provisions of the F/FA registration and testing program. The program is structured around the concept that business entities which profit from the sale of a F/FA product should generally share responsibility for its potential effects on the public health and welfare. Such businesses have thus been required to share in the burdens associated with determining these potential effects. However, this general principle is tempered by various provisions which recognize that other factors, such as characteristics of the F/FA marketplace and distribution system, must also be taken into account when assigning the regulatory burdens." "The special provisions for small businesses (Sec. 79.58(d)) also grant exemptions based upon financial and marketplace factors. Moreover, provisions finalized in today's action permit this exemption to ``pass through'' to customers of small businesses, regardless of the size of the customers, to prevent disruption of marketplace relationships (see section IV.B, below)." --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Thor > > If you look at this previous message: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=887&list=BIOFUELS-BIZ > > - from Shaine Tyson at NREL, via Tom Leue, it seems > biodiesel doesn't > qualify for expemtions under baseline or > non-baseline because it's > not a petroleum fuel. Others also reached this > conclusion. > > So where did this spring from? > > >AN EXCEPTION IS BIODIESEL, WHICH IS ONE > >GROUP, EVEN THOUGH IT CONSISTS OF MIXED ALKYL > ESTERS > >OF PLANT AND/OR ANIMAL ORIGIN." (My > capitalization)` > > I saw it at the url you gave. > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://a
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
My legalese is sometimes lacking, but I understand the Tier 2 exemption is for any small company with less than $50,000,000 in sales per year (I qualify), but the Tier 1 exemption is only for small companies of less than $10,000,000 per year in sales MAKING A STANDARD FUEL. Any amount of biodiesel above a trace is not exempt from Tier 1 testing. The objection I have raised is that federal funds paid for representative biodiesel testing, and it is not being limited among over 13 producers in about 20 locations, from all types of material streams, yet is being denied use of to a small producer, and many others like me. Where is the sense in that? Tom Leue In a message dated 8/1/02 6:43:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Keith, Tom, et. al., The following Federal Register notice has some relevant information. Keith, this may be the notice you were referring to. I gleaned the following points: 1. Biodiesel (neat and blends) is considered a non-baseline diesel fuel. 2. There is no language that bars small-business biodiesel producers from the Tier 1 and Tier 2 testing exemptions. 3. All categories of biodiesel are considered similar for testing purposes (at this time). Now, this afternoon I got a message from Joe Sopata at EPA (lots of phone tag) in which he stated that any blend <= 6% biodiesel was considered a nonbaseline fuel, and anything over 6% was considered atypical, and therefore not subject to the Tier 1 exemption. The thing is, I can't find that definition in any EPA documents. What I find is what I have quoted below. EPA tests biodiesel at 100% as the representative group, and assumes that most applications will be a 20/80 blend. I don't know where this <6% rule comes from, but it may be a purely discretionary interpretation, and not a written rule issued as a regulation. So, Tom, I don't know how EPA could be threatening to shut you down on this basis. I'll keep checking. Thor The reference: [Federal Register: March 17, 1997 (Volume 62, Number 51)] [Rules and Regulations] [Page 12564-12572] From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov] [DOCID:fr17mr97-18] [selected snips] "Biodiesel fuels and most blends of bio-and conventional diesel fuel contain more than 1.0 weight percent oxygen and thus, according to Sec. 79.56(e)(3)(ii)(B), fall into the non-baseline diesel category. Under Sec. 79.56(e)(4)(ii)(B)(2), as adopted in May 1994, biodiesel fuels derived from vegetable oil (``mixed alkyl esters of plant origin'') are grouped separately from biodiesel fuels derived from animal fat (``mixed alkyl esters of animal origin'')." "In regard to selecting the biodiesel group representative, EPA has decided that 100 percent biofuel is most appropriate for the screening purposes of Tiers 1 and 2. EPA has received industry assurances, both in written comments (docket item VII-D-19) and in follow-up communications,\5\ that the use of 100 percent biofuel does not require significant engine modifications. Furthermore, while 20 percent biodiesel formulations are expected to predominate in the commercial marketplace during the short term, both lower and higher percent blends may see greater market penetration in the future." "While the available data are not comprehensive, EPA agrees with industry commenters that plant- and animal-derived biodiesel fuels appear to have generally similar chemical composition. [Accordingly] the Agency is today revising the grouping rule for biodiesel F/FAs to permit plant and animal biodiesel F/FAs to group together and be represented by one group representative for compliance with Tier 1 and Tier 2 testing requirements." "EPA has carefully considered the commenters' arguments in relation to other provisions of the F/FA registration and testing program. The program is structured around the concept that business entities which profit from the sale of a F/FA product should generally share responsibility for its potential effects on the public health and welfare. Such businesses have thus been required to share in the burdens associated with determining these potential effects. However, this general principle is tempered by various provisions which recognize that other factors, such as characteristics of the F/FA marketplace and distribution system, must also be taken into account when assigning the regulatory burdens." "The special provisions for small businesses (Sec. 79.58(d)) also grant exemptions based upon financial and marketplace factors. Moreover, provisions finalized in today's action permit this exemption to ``pass through'' to customers of small businesses, regardless of the size of the customers, to prevent disruption of marketplace relationships (see section IV.B, below)." --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Thor > > If you look at this previous message: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=887&list=BIOFUELS-BIZ > > - from Shaine Tyson at NREL, via Tom Leue, it seems
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
Tom, I agree with you about the federal funds testing. Heck, NREL contributed to some of the studies as well, and often any amount of federal money is enough to "contaminate" the rest; at least it works that way with federal grant programs. But my other point is that according to EPA's own publications in the federal register, it makes no distinction about "standard" fuels wrt biodiesel. It classifies biodiesel as a "nonbaseline" fuel which IS exempt from the Tier 1 requirement for small businesses. As I've said, they have told me differently on the phone, but have yet to show me anything in writing. And it don't count unless it's in writing. thor --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > My legalese is sometimes lacking, but I understand > the Tier 2 exemption is > for any small company with less than $50,000,000 in > sales per year (I > qualify), but the Tier 1 exemption is only for small > companies of less than > $10,000,000 per year in sales MAKING A STANDARD > FUEL. Any amount of > biodiesel above a trace is not exempt from Tier 1 > testing. The objection I > have raised is that federal funds paid for > representative biodiesel testing, > and it is not being limited among over 13 producers > in about 20 locations, > from all types of material streams, yet is being > denied use of to a small > producer, and many others like me. Where is the > sense in that? > > Tom Leue __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
Thor and Tom, Please excuse me for being out of the loop or on the periphery for this conversation up to this point. Too damned much work to do, too many people wanting too much in too little time and machines and people (me) who can only do so much in a 28 hour day. THOR: Could you please site a reference to this... the clarification of biodiesel as "non baseline"? Sorry but I'm getting crapped out and am not on top of my game for the next couple of days. Your assistance would be less time consuming. > But my other point is that according to EPA's own > publications in the federal register, it makes no > distinction about "standard" fuels wrt biodiesel. It > classifies biodiesel as a "nonbaseline" fuel which IS > exempt from the Tier 1 requirement for small > businesses. COMMENT: I largely agre with Thor's line of inquiry. Perusal over 40 CFR 79 and 80 leads me to many of the same conclusions, although in the haste to discern their content it's easy to mis a nuance or two. Here a few blurbs written in response to an article prepared for publication by someone else. Relative to NBB fees and their equivalence to taxation: *** [500 gallons / week = ~$0.20 a gallon tax] *** [250 gallons / week = ~$0.40 a gallon tax] *** [150 gallons / week = ~$0.65 a gallon tax] Relative to registration of a fuel with EPA: *** [Registration of fuel to be used in a "motor vehicle" must be accompanied by Tier test results or proof of legal access to them. One cannot register first and then provide results or prove to have access to them at a later date. *** "The Act defines the term ``motor vehicle'' to mean any self-propelled vehicle designed for transporting persons or property on a street or highway." (40 CFR 79.33.a) [Ag exemptions permit limitted use of off-road fuel on-road.] *** "Act" means the Clean Air Act - 42 U.S.C. 1857 et seq., as amended by Pub. L. 91-604 (40 CFR 79.2.a) Relative to the exemption status of manufacturers: *** You can find reference to this exemption at the Cornell law library 40 CFR 79.58.d.2 http://squid.law.cornell.edu:9000/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=40&PA RT=79&SECTION=58&TYPE=TEXT http://cfr.law.cornell.edu/cfr/cfr.php?title=40&type=part&value=7 9 *** And don't forget 40 CFR 80 http://cfr.law.cornell.edu/cfr/cfr.php?title=40&type=part&value=8 0 Relative to pushing the issue of "public monies" being used for Tier testing: *** There is the arbitration provision (as verbally referred to me by an EPA official), where if two parties cannot agree (for instance, the NBB and a small producer regarding access fees to Tier test results) one party can force the other party into arbitration. At such time all the relevant facts as to %s of federal monies versus private monies used to produce Tier results can be requested - general discovery issues. [I most seriously imagine that this is exactly where the issue must end up. Although a tentative "understanding," "ruling," "judgement" or "opinion" may qualify check-off dollars as "public monies," there will be no judicial clarification until someone presses the issue. This, in my personal opinion is the very low quality card the NBB has in the hole, hoping for a straight, knowing that the "opposition" has a Royal Flush. They will do nothing in their disfavor until someone presses the issue.] General common sense from the corporate perspective of Soy and the NBB: *** The real crux of the matter, which parallels the question of federal/check-off monies, is why the NBB does not make any effort to avoid arbitration by providing some form of exemption/reduced fee for small producers. Sooner or later they are going to get "called" on this one. As to rationalization for failure to make exceptions for small producers: *** If all of a sudden there are numerous exemptions for small producers of on-road fuel literally dotting the landscape, they would increase the possibility of never seeing their Tier-test check-off dollars returning to their coffers. This in turn calls into question the stated purpose of the NBB. Do they serve the interests of the biodiesel industry or the interests of the soy councils? Which brings one right back to what you elude to initially "Who created the biodiesel industry - small home producers or the soy councils?" Thoughts from the grandstand Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Thor Skov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel > Tom, > > I agree with you about the federal funds testing. > Heck, NREL contributed to some of the studies as well, > and often any amount of federal money is enough to > "contaminate" the rest; at least it works that way > with federal grant programs. > > But my other point is that according to EPA's own > publications in the federal register, it makes no > distinction about "standard" fuels wrt biodiesel. It > classifies biodiesel as a "nonbaseline" fuel which IS > exempt from the Tier 1 re
Re: [biofuels-biz] Legal Obstacles for Biodiesel
I read this posting out of order, and later than the other one. I'm not sure about the Tier 1 testing exemption, its not clear what to conclude. The only added insight is that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 test results are not copyrighted. They are stated as being done on contract to the NBB, but are by definition in the public domain. Is that significant? Tom Leue In a message dated 7/31/02 8:07:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Hi everyone, I have been on the phone with various government officials at various agencies. I have a guy at the Agricultural Marketing Service trying to answer the question of whether checkoff funds are considered private or public monies. Someone on this list asserted that it was with such funds that the Soybean Board/Council funded the NBB Tier 1 testing. Is there any documentary proof of this? I also have a request in to EPA about Tier One testing requirements. Joe Sapata left me a message saying that we could not use the NBB test data, but I don't know the rationale. Non-discrimination is an issue that Glenn Ellis brought up. Where I see the discrimination, beyond denying public use of NBB testing data bought (putatively) with public money, is EPA's refusal to grant the Tier One testing exception to small biodiesel producers. [All the following info can be found at: http://www.epa.gov/icr/icrs/icrpages/1696ss03.htm] Specifically: As part of its Information Collection Request, (EPA ICR Number 1696.03, OMB Control Number 2060-0297) section 2(a), EPA writes: "There are several exceptions to the above, in order to lessen the burden for small businesses. Manufacturers of baseline and/or nonbaseline products, who have an annual sales revenue of less than $50 million, are exempt from Tier 1 and Tier 2. Manufacturers of atypical products, who have an annual sales revenue of less than $10 million, are exempt from Tier 2."
[biofuels-biz] Stainless Steel Baths
There are two stainless steel "Baths" in the Tampa Florida area that I would like to offer for sale. They might be of use to a biodiesel producer. I would suggest a $200 price for each. They were in operation in a "water bath" at about 15C to 85C (59F-185F) at atmospheric pressure. They have no pressurization ability. The construction is Stainless Steel . ( It appears to be 316 but I can't tell.)They have lids which are operated pneumatically or manually. You might need to clean them with a pressure washer. They come with a circulation pump and dual heaters (220volts??, ?? watts). The pump is not isolated. They are about 3'W x 6'L x3'H . I have photos if your're interested. You will have to arrange transport. Kindest Regards, Robb Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere - Free Trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/o5uw2C/0ncEAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste
I have been spending time with someone who has a pet dog. Frequently this involves taking the animal outdoors so that it can go to the bathroom, picking up the poop and depositing it in the garbage. On top of this, some environmental stories that I have read recently have focused on animal waste runoff being a contributor (not the sole contributor, but one amongst several) to dirty water problems in various muncipalities, and there is trouble stopping it because dog and other pet owners are unwilling to really see their behaviour and their pets' behaviour as non-benign. All of this leads me to a couple of even more off-beat comments. First, why on earth doesn't someone make a try of inventing an indoor bathroom-toilet facility for a dog to use? Come on, I know it would require training, but they're pretty sharp animals. I mean, it's worth a try anyway. It would go a long way to helping clean up our municipalities and also to improving the pet-ownership experience. Second, on top of this, there is the question of whether animal and human waste can be used for anything (energy), rather than just treated as waste requiring cleanup. I know this is not precisely the group for this, but I couldn't quite spot the appropriate group, so now that I have suggested part one, I have made my main point on this matter. It's not the most pleasant of topics, but I'm thinking that, perhaps for that reason, it doesn't get dealt with as best as might be possible. This also goes for part II. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] car production in Brazil
I wonder how many of these cars are built to be able to handle certain levels of ethanol-mixture: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020731/autos_brazil_tax_1.html Wednesday July 31, 8:20 pm Eastern Time Reuters Company News Brazil to reduce production tax on cars Thursday BRASILIA, Brazil, July 31 (Reuters) - The Brazilian Finance Ministry recommended on Wednesday that production taxes on passenger vehicles with small to medium-sized engines should be lowered immediately and said it expected President Fernando Henrique Cardoso to issue a decree to that effect on Thursday. ADVERTISEMENT The intent of the lowered tax rates, the ministry said, was to help the country's ailing automotive section sell and export more vehicles. A ministry statement said Cardoso had received a recommendation to lower the Industrial Production Tax (IPI) for cars with engines above 1,000 cubic centimeters (cc) and below 2,000 cc to 16 percent from 25 percent. Smaller, so-called "popular" cars with 1,000 cc motors will enjoy a much smaller tax cut -- to 9 percent from 10 percent. The move is aimed at making the auto industry diversify their production, now focused on the inexpensive "popular" cars, and produce more larger cars that can be more easily exported, thus helping to generate trade surplus, the statement said. It said "popular" cars accounted for 71 percent of overall production, while the industry was not using 36 percent of its overall installed capacity. The National Association of Vehicle Manufacturers (Anfavea) has said Brazilian sales of domestically made and imported cars, trucks and buses dropped 17.7 percent in the first six months of this year from the same period in 2001, pressured by an economic slowdown and high interest rates. U.S. car makers General Motors Corp (NYSE:GM - News) and Ford Motor Co (NYSE:F - News), Germany's Volkswagen AG (XETRA:VOWG.DE - News) and Italy's Fiat SpA (Milan:FIA.MI - News) all make cars in Brazil for local consumption and exports and dominate the market. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT: Global O2 amounts
I got more productive feedback than I thought I would on the issue of trying to guage the possibility of global H2 depletion. There's another topic that's been on my mind, a propos of various ongoing global environmental discussions, atmosopheric science, etc., and so I want to mention it, however ad hoc. A couple of years ago I saw a story or tv show wherein they introduced one of those science ideas that you've sort of been waiting for. It was that apparently an explanation has arisen for the sort of mystery of why the Earth has been around for 4 billion years or so, but life has only existed in a somewhat complex form on the planet for a few hundred million years (apparently). Why the relatively sudden spreading out of life? One explanation that has arisen has been that for the first few billion years of EArth's existence, Oxygen was not as plentiful in our system as it now is. But apparently it might have been released so that the amount of atmospheric Oxygen increased markedly and permanently. I don't recall the release mechanisms suggested. It might have been volcanic. Now, this theory made an impression on me simply because I had always wondered why in science discussions it seemed there was such a large discrepancy between age-of-earth discussions and rise-of-plentiful-complex-life discussions. But also, it made an impression because there is another way to look at global-warming-CO2 debates. Most folks don't understand that CO2 is not at all a problem in our atmsophere, but rather what seems like it will be a problem is the sudden release of dozens of millions of years of stored Carbon, causing a sudden atmospheric shift on CO2 amounts. But I never hear discussion of atmospheric CO2 amounts also discuss that this means a certain "using up" of atmospheric free O2 amounts. Is this not a problem, or at least worth noting? Do we not breathe O2 and does not the amount available affect our lives? While I do not question that massive amounts of Oxygen are present as part of water and CO2 and other molecules in our system, I think it would be worth examining the consequences on ambient O2 amounts of a century of a fossil-fuel economy that we have had. I also think a renewable-energy-related invention that might sound mundane but might be worth making for folks would be simple monitors that anyone can use to measure the gasses in a house or a given environment, including O2. Maybe they already exist. I've never seen one marketed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Discontinued Ford Trucks
Heard yesterday that the U.S. Ford Excursion is being discontinued. This SUV was intended to compete with GMs Chevy Suburban. It sounded as if the Lincoln Blackwood luxury pickup truck may also be a collectors item. `` Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste
I believe almost anything can be converted to methane by our little bacterial friends. Could be an interesting niche business, maybe providing poop collection stations in parks frequented by dogs? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I have been spending time with someone who has a pet dog. Frequently >this involves taking the animal outdoors so that it can go to the >bathroom, picking up the poop and depositing it in the garbage. On >top of this, some environmental stories that I have read recently have >focused on animal waste runoff being a contributor (not the sole >contributor, but one amongst several) to dirty water problems in >various muncipalities, and there is trouble stopping it because dog >and other pet owners are unwilling to really see their behaviour and >their pets' behaviour as non-benign. > >All of this leads me to a couple of even more off-beat comments. > >First, why on earth doesn't someone make a try of inventing an indoor >bathroom-toilet facility for a dog to use? Come on, I know it would >require training, but they're pretty sharp animals. I mean, it's >worth a try anyway. It would go a long way to helping clean up our >municipalities and also to improving the pet-ownership experience. > >Second, on top of this, there is the question of whether animal and >human waste can be used for anything (energy), rather than just >treated as waste requiring cleanup. > >I know this is not precisely the group for this, but I couldn't quite >spot the appropriate group, so now that I have suggested part one, I >have made my main point on this matter. It's not the most pleasant of >topics, but I'm thinking that, perhaps for that reason, it doesn't get >dealt with as best as might be possible. This also goes for part II. > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Kenneth Kron -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cat Herder ZanshinRyu.com, Aikido.com, Aikido.us 6947 California Street San Francisco, CA, 94121 (415) 379-6697 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Iraq Oil
This excerpt below gives $4 billion in annual Iraq oil sales 36 cents per day per [Iraqi] person for food and medicine. That will buy some seed or a apple a day. FOUR IT'S SADDAM'S FAULT THAT HALF A MILLION CHILDREN DIED SINCE THE ECONOMIC BLOCKADE, SADDAM COULD FEED HIS PEOPLE IF HE CARED INSTEAD OF USING HIS MONEY TO BUY WEAPONS ö " More than one million Iraqis have died ö 500,000 of them children ö as a direct consequence of economic sanctions... As many as 12% of the children surveyed in Baghdad are wasted, 28% stunted and 29% underweight." ö UN FAO, December 1995. For details see Morbidity and Mortality Among Iraqi Children 1990-98. ANSWER: Nearly all oil sales money has been controlled through United Nations officials, subject to over 35% reduction for reparations (Iraq is forbidden to contest any claim) and UN expenses, and subject to Washington's veto and foot dragging. Washington allowed food and medicine imports, but almost nothing else for economic reconstruction. For nearly ten years it blockaded chlorine to sanitize the water and any equipment to rebuild the electricity grid, sanitation and irrigation facilities. Even pencils for school children were prohibited. (A NY Times editorial 2/11/01 reports, "currently American diplomats are holding up billions of dollars of imports needed for civilian transportation, electric power generation...and even medical treatment"). Finally the Europeans rebelled at the cruelty and shamed Washington into allowing such imports, (NY Times 12/6/00). However, as of 12/2/01 about $1 billion of electric and other machinery has been held up for a year by Washington. Until oil prices increased in 2000, sales ran about $4 billion yearly minus about 35% withheld by UN left 2.6 billion divided by 20 million population = $130 per year per person = 36 cents per day per person for food, medicine. Iraq is now also getting substantial monies through sales of smuggled oil, especially since the price of oil went up and the rest of the world tires of the American blockade. No doubt some of this goes for weapons purchases. Eight Washington Lies About Iraq by Jon Basil Utley 7/31/02 http://www.antiwar.com/rep/utley9.html `` Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Discontinued Ford Trucks
Thank God! Frankly I am embarrassed for America (and a little scared for my own safety) every time I see someone commuting to work in one of those things. Let them collect dust in collectors' garages. Ford Excursion: R.I.P. -Original Message- From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:19 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Discontinued Ford Trucks Heard yesterday that the U.S. Ford Excursion is being discontinued. This SUV was intended to compete with GMs Chevy Suburban. It sounded as if the Lincoln Blackwood luxury pickup truck may also be a collectors item. `` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 00:37 Subject: [biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste > > First, why on earth doesn't someone make a try of inventing an indoor > bathroom-toilet facility for a dog to use? They already have some thing like this for cat that teaches them to use a human toilet. > Come on, I know it would > require training, but they're pretty sharp animals. Not realy, as far as house pets are concerned, most dogs I have dealt with are on the low end of the scale. I have seen more 'dumb' dogs than cats, ferrets, rats, hamsters (and I have seen some dumb hamsters). My sisters dog will go out of it's way to ruin carpet. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: A little humor was Discontinued Ford Trucks
A little excursion humor thanx to: Car Talk Takes an Excursion Ford Excursion, That Is! By now, you've probably heard about Ford's new behemoth sport utility vehicle, the Excursion. Now, Ford has taken a lot of grief lately due to the vehicle's size. The Sierra Club even dubbed it the Ford "Valdez." To be fair, Ford points out that its customers want such vehicles, and that they've worked hard to minimize the Excursion's emissions. That seems to be true. But we couldn't help providing our instantaneous "Car Talk Translation" of Ford's announcement. With apologies to Bill Ford Jr. -- and our own legal team for the extra hours they'll be putting in this week--Car Talk is pleased to help Ford introduce the new Ford Excursion: FORD: The customer came first in developing the all-new Ford Excursion. TRANSLATION: We had about 50 million tons of extra sheet metal lying around. FORD: It's designed to provide customers with a fresh new choice in the heavy-duty utility market. TRANSLATION: Even we were shocked when we saw it. I think we can all agree, it's freakin' huge. FORD: Excursion offers more space and convenience for passengers, more utility for activities such as towing and more versatility for carrying cargo and luggage--while at the same time setting a bold new standard for safety and the environment. TRANSLATION: There's more interior volume than the Taj Mahal. Think you'd get hurt if the Taj ever hit a Chevette? Of course not! You wouldn't believe how much gas this thing drinks. We didn't say it was a bold new good standard. FORD: Up to 10 cup holders and five power points. TRANSLATION: Just you try to drink that much coffee. We don't know what power points are, either, but some junior ad writer came up with the phrase and we kept it because we thought it sounded impressive. FORD: Large towing capacity--up to 10,000 pounds. TRANSLATION: That's two fully loaded Explorers you could drag around behind you, in case you want to zip into town with something easier to park. FORD: Large payload capacity--up to one ton. TRANSLATION: And it holds nine people, so each of them can weigh up to 225 pounds. Or, five mothers-in-law at 400 pounds each. It's your call. FORD: Ford's unique BlockerBeam helps prevent a car from sliding underneath the front of the Excursion during a frontal collision. Ford is the first in the industry to provide this type of advanced protection in trucks. TRANSLATION: We're already gearing up for lawsuits from relatives of deceased Escort owners. Our legal team devised this preemptive, technology-based defense. FORD: A standard trailer hitch helps prevent a car from sliding underneath the rear of Excursion during a rear collision. TRANSLATION: But the "BlockerBeam" was too expensive to add to the back of the Excursion. So, we figured, why not just skewer cars with a regular old trailer hitch? FORD: Driver and passenger front air bags feature "second generation" inflation rates. TRANSLATION: Our apologies to those of you who lost your first generation of children to our original air bag design. FORD: New Ford Belt-Minder system will help remind most Excursion occupants to buckle up. TRANSLATION: We added a buzzer. FORD: SecuriLockú passive anti-theft system helps deter would-be thieves. TRANSLATION: It took Vinny 300 percent longer to break in and drive off-nearly two full minutes! FORD: Will produce up to 43 percent less tailpipe emissions than permitted by law. TRANSLATION: The law needs updating. FORD: More fuel efficient--with more passenger and cargo carrying capacity--than two average full-size sedans capable of transporting equivalent loads. TRANSLATION: Please try not to think how much gas you're wasting when you take the Excursion to go get a gallon of milk. FORD: Nearly one-fifth of the vehicle is made from recycled materials, including various steel, aluminum, rubber and plastic parts. TRANSLATION: There aren't enough mines in the world for the raw materials we'll be needing. FORD: More than 85 percent of the vehicle is recyclable by weight. TRANSLATION: And when you're done with it, NAFTA allows us to sell it to Mexico as low-income housing. FORD: At less than 7 feet tall and less than 20 feet long, Excursion still fits into a standard-size garage. TRANSLATION: But it might not be a bad idea to hire some aircraft- gate parking specialists with lit beacons to help you get it in there. FORD: Excursion offers an impressive 165 cubic feet of available cargo space. That's about eight times the trunk volume of a full-size passenger car. TRANSLATION: Some other things you might be able to relate this to: *About the size of your first apartment after college *Could hold 10 cubicles, and a water cooler *Enough room for optional lap pool FORD: Reducing the amount of noise entering the cabin was a priority for the Excursion development team. TRANSLATION: I think
[biofuel] Energy in Agriculture and Society
While I have a great deal to learn others might be interested in this publication -- Energy in Agriculture and Society: Insights from the Sunshine Farm Marty Bender Updated January 14, 2002 http://www.landinstitute.org/vnews/display.v/ART/2001/03/28/3accb0712 This report speaks about agriculture & also compares energy ratios e.g. "energy ratio of 1.7 to 1 for outputs to inputs, or simply 1.7" - National energy ratios for farming in various countries 0.3-3.1 to 1 - Petroleum and natural gas 10 - US Coal 9 - Nuclear 4 - Renewable liquid fuels 1-3 - Renewable solid fuels 6-13 - Gasification of biomass 2-5 - Flat-plate solar collectors 2-5 - Direct combustion of crop 3-4 - Biogas 1.4-5.6 - Hydroelectric 10 - Electrochemical photovoltaic arrays 8-10 - Parabolic-thermal reflectors 8-10 - Wind-electric turbines 16-20 ?? - Energy conservation and efficiency double-pane windows 136 ceiling insulation 61 - Passive solar design 10-25 Some excerpts -- "The importance of national food security dictates that we should reduce farming's dependence on fossil fuels. As part of The Land Institute's mission to use nature as measure for developing sustainable agriculture and culture, the Sunshine Farm Project has been exploring the possibilities of farming without fossil fuels, fertilizers or pesticides." " The purpose of the renewable energy technologies in our project is to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels but not our dependence on local energy systems." "Australia relies mostly on low-input crops (e.g., wheat), free-range animal rearing, and extensive use of leys (i.e., grazed legume cover crops) instead of commercial fertilizer for cropland nitrogen needs. Likewise in America, before the tremendous increase in commercial fertilizers, pesticides and irrigation after World War II, American farming in 1940 had a national energy ratio of 2.3 (Table 2)." "As documented by the US Department of Energy, during 1979-1986 the US obtained 7 times as much new energy from savings through conservation and efficiency than from all net increases in domestic energy supplies based on fossil fuels, nuclear power, and renewable sources.20,21 Hence conservation and efficiency should be fully developed, as well as renewable energy sources." "By these strategies for inputs and outputs, mixed farms and US agriculture should be able to increase their energy ratios to 3, perhaps 4, the former figure already achieved by Australia (Table 2)." "An aggressive national program of energy conservation and efficiency will be required to sufficiently reduce energy consumption such that the US economy could be powered by renewable energy sources without using too much land. Absent such measures, for example, if the nation's current transportation sector were to be fueled solely by the gross yield of ethanol from corn grain, then half of the entire US must be planted to corn.24.25.26" "Nonetheless, some energy scholars believe that energy conservation and efficiency will make it quite possible to power our current standard of living with renewable energy sources.30,31 Solar technologies would be particularly important in meeting US energy needs since they have much greater energy ratios and power densities than renewable fuels derived from agriculture." `` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Historic efficient vehicles
Wasn't Chrysler also planning on bringing back the Charger R/T for 2001 with a natural gas engine? If I remember correctly the thing could go from 0 to 60 in less than 7 seconds. OK, maybe not the most efficient, but certainly the most efficient in it's class: http://www.dodge.com/inside/concept_vehicles/charger_rt.html Don't forget the Nash Metropolitan either: http://members.tripod.com/PNWMOC/stats.html 30-40 MPG back in 1955! (22.2 seconds to 60) -Original Message- From: Prairie Dog [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 2:36 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Historic efficient vehicles I've seen numerous vehicles mentioned lately (current or old-timey) that had wonderful efficiency ratings. I wonder if we couldn't assemble a collage of info on these vehicles, and hopefully glean some usable info on them that might result in higher MPG ratings nowadays? My entry would be one from Chrysler. In the mid-'40's, they built about 20 test cars that were powered by a jet turbine engine! They got 40-plus MPG even in that day and age, and better yet, they ran on almost ANYTHING that burns! Veggie oil, kerosene, gas, turpentine, alcohol, oil, diesel; it ate it all. It could run them straight, or in nearly any combination of the above. Find it, pour it in. The only reason they didn't put it into production was because it had an "annoying whine" (it's a jet turbine!), and it was a little sluggish off the line (fixable with today's transmission technologies). The engine was an advanced version of an early military tank engine that Chrysler produced for the US government. Any other ideas? -Joel Rutledge Prairie Dog Recycling Wichita, Kansas Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste
I made my first digester (way back in high school) from a gallon pickle jar and fed it dog s**t collected from the front yard (we didn't have a dog, but most of the other families around had one or two that left little piles. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Kenneth Kron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 07:30 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Somewhat OT: Animal Waste > I believe almost anything can be converted to methane by our little > bacterial friends. Could be an interesting niche business, maybe > providing poop collection stations in parks frequented by dogs? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere - Free Trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/o5uw2C/0ncEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Historic efficient vehicles
- Original Message - From: "Ryan Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 13:53 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Historic efficient vehicles > > Wasn't Chrysler also planning on bringing back the Charger R/T for 2001 with > a natural gas engine? If I remember correctly the thing could go from 0 to > 60 in less than 7 seconds. OK, maybe not the most efficient, but certainly > the most efficient in it's class: > Sure it is, think of all the fuel you save by getting to 60 sooner. ;-) Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
