Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS

[Appal Energy]

Timothy,

Make your first batches. Familiarize yourself with the process.
Refine some techniques a bit. Then watch your New Holland eat up
as much acreage over a longer lifetime than were it running on
petrol diesel.

You've got the yellow grease feedstock in your neighborhood. This
list has enough resources to put you on top of your biodiesel
game should you feel a bit off.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Timothy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS


Well, I try I just hope my new Newholland will
continue to run as good as it looks, thanks. --- Appal
Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Timothy,

The process is painlessly easy. You could use veg oil
and Red
Devil lye off the grocer's shelf. Locating the
methanol would
only take a few phone calls. Borrow a set of scales
and use the
"standby" 3.5 grams of caustic per liter of fresh
oil.

You'll see the process unfold before your eyes in a
matter of
minutes. Then all that's left for you to do is start
envisioning
as large a scale as you would like.

And it's probably better that way, as you wouldn't be
able to see
the reaction, appreciate it or understand it as well
simply by
looking at a handful of stainless steel tanks and
listening to
motors hum.

Todd Swearingen




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Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Appal Energy]

Ed,

I don't ask this confrontationally.

Do you really believe that yellow grease B-100 (or similar) will
not be problematic when using only the fuel line heater, during
weeks long periods of sub-freezing nights and at best mid-30's
days? Such would be the majority at the middle to mid-southern
latitudes in the US, with intermittant bouts of indeterminate
length having "more frigid" temps.

I'm just having a bit of a go understanding how enough fuel can
be warmed up from just a line heater to keep the entire system
fluid.

Hey...if it works that's one less thing to screw with...so no
complaints. But does it?

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Biofuel-JTF 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel


> on 9/25/02 2:57 PM, Michael S Briggs at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel
in my Jetta
> > TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
> > First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel
line
> > just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
> > http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
> > It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming
for 70
> > degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the
engine (could
> > be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch
in the car,
> > but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up)
>
> NOTE: "A while" is about 10 secondsit heats up almost
instantly.
>
> Also you are confusing biodiesel with SVO I think - your
biodiesel will not
> likely ever get to a point of being so thick that you have to
worry about it
> flowing to the VEG-Therm, unless it is PME or you live in
Alaska.
>
>
>
> should warm up
> > the fuel just before the injectors so that it's nice and
liquidy (whereas
> > at temps below 30-35ish degrees fahrenheit it would be
somewhat gooey).
> > So, the engine *should* then be able to start on that nice
warm fuel.
> > The TDI also sends more fuel to the engine than actually gets
> > ignited in the cylinders, with some of it being warmed by the
engine (as
> > well as the heater if I install one), and then circulating
back to the
> > fuel tank, where it warms the fuel. So, once the engine is
started, this
> > *might*
>
> I would say that it will do that, without a doubt, not "might".
>
>
> be enough to warm all of the biodiesel to the point that it is
> > nice and liquidy. But, the concern is - before all the fuel
gets warmed up
> > enough, it may just put too much stress on the fuel pump. The
fuel pump
> > is right next to the engine, and pulls fuel to it. The heater
would have
> > to be just behind the pump (away from the engine), so it
would warm up the
> > fuel behind it, but not necessarily the fuel IN it. So, that
might not
> > work.
> >
> > The second option is to use an SVO system, with me leaning
towards
> > the one sold by Greasel (www.greasel.com). In the winter, I
could put
> > petro diesel (with cold weather additives) in the main tank,
and 100%
> > biodiesel in the auxillary tank. Essentially operating it in
the same
> > manner as if I were running it on SVO (which I might do in
the summer).
> >
> > So, what do people think - is the SVO setup necessary, or
could I just use
> > the heater to run on biodiesel in the winter?
>
> Biodiesel is not going to go that viscous on you. Just heat it
up. Your car
> was designed to run B100, with gelling in the filter the only
concern here,
> IMO, not stuff being too viscous in the tank or in the lines.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > -
> > Michael S. Briggs"Never judge a man until you've
> > UNH Physics Departmentwalked a mile in his shoes.
Then
> > (603) 862-2828when you do judge him, you'll be
> > a mile away and you'll have
> > his shoes."
>
> ---
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
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RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...

[Keith Addison]

>I don't know about printers ink in the diet but seems most forms of
>cellulose work. Or lignin.
>Kirk

According to the organics lists, printers' ink is innocuous these 
days, mostly made from soy oil. Even the coloured inks are innocuous, 
but if you stick to b/w newsprint and keep away from glossies you'll 
be okay.

Keith

>-Original Message-
>From: Grahams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:44 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...
>
>
>At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >If you have access to cotton!!!
> >I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
> >There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
> >Turn cellulose into yummy!
>
>One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on coffee
>grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too weird for
>words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?, I think
>I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
>Caroline


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Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[Hakan Falk]

It is not a simple situation and US has never made it a secret that
they will look for US interests. It is equally wrong to say that it is
all about oil, as to pretend that it has nothing to do with oil. It is
two sides of the coin of political polarization that was invented in
US. Nixon started on the work to make US less oil dependent and
it is a petty that this was not followed trough after he left.

For the Bush administration, it must be difficult to give Israel full
support. Despite their occupation of Palestine and their track record
of respect for UN resolutions and on the other hand have to go after
Iraq based on lack of respect for UN resolutions and suppression of
parts of the population.

I have played with the thought that it might be a play of bad cop, good cop.
This in order to get the inspection regime effectively in place again.
If so, it looks that the pressure may pay off. At the end, Bush might
have done some very smart moves. History will tell.

Hakan


At 08:15 PM 9/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> >USA are in a hurry, because waiting 6 month to a year, will probably make
> >any attack on Iraq much more difficult, the excuses might
> >be depleted and the risks more obvious. It is probably a go or no go
> >situation within the next 6 month. For US it is extremely important to
> >secure oil supplies from Iraq. Especially if Professor Hubbell was right
> >and US have to compete for a declining Middle East oil supply.
>
>I think that a Bush Administration is a worst-case scenario in one 
>respect, for
>proponents of untangling and understanding US priorities, because it gives too
>much credence to the idea that it is ok to see US policy in the simplistic 
>terms
>of going for Oil, and to heck with other points.  This evening in San Diego
>there were protesters on TV claiming (with signs and such) that we should not
>fight "for oil" and that is what this war will be all about.
>
>I do not agree with this view of things.
>
>I do agree that understanding our Oil Dependencies, and our 
>irrationalities both
>past and present, would be good and would improve US foreign policy and our
>ability to sell foreign policy, but there is another matter here, which I 
>think
>is the pressing matter of some countries' leaderships showing, credibly, that
>they are working toward killing millions of Americans.
>
>There is no question but that understanding how Oil fits into this picture 
>would
>be wise.  We have, for example, funded much of the long-standing attack 
>which is
>being waged against us.  It is undoubtedly the case that much of Iranian 
>wealth
>(some of which goes to funding the fight against us) is derived from Oil Sales
>on world markets (it does not matter, at all, that the US boycotts the oil, if
>other countries with good currencies such as Japan will buy it), and that much
>of others' roundabout support for so many of our conflicts is funded by 
>our own
>Oil Purchases fourth-hand (witness some Saudis and their support for 
>attacks on
>Israel and the United States).
>
>For me, understanding our present situation vis-a-vis Iraq is not as simple as
>saying "we want their oil and that's it", although, I must admit, it is
>disgusting to me to watch the Bush Administration turn down opportunities to
>improve our oil dependency situation.  If one is going to attack a 
>dictator and
>those who follow him, one might as well have the decency to stop doing 
>business
>with him first, and if one finds this difficult, one might as well have the
>decency to ask why and follow up as much as possible on the matter, 
>permanently
>changing US policy and doing everything humanly possible to de-claw the 
>monster
>via means additional to bombing him.
>
>As to the Saudis, we have failed to do many of the things that I think would
>have been advisable during the years of "good" relations with them (while they
>were fostering the hate that seemed to exist within those 15 hijackers) 
>and now
>we still seem to be rejecting real true earnest followup.  Where is the Bush
>Administration and Congress on Alternative Fuel Vehicles, overall energy
>independence, etc?  All they seem to want to do is pretty much what they 
>wanted
>a year and a half ago: drill for oil, give tax breaks to the oil drillers, 
>claim
>that Electric Vehicles and Solar energy are for loonies, bomb people who have
>used our own dollars against us, etc.
>
>Where are they on asking why we never demanded (as we should have) that the
>Saudis get off their fat monarchistic backsides and be an active force for 
>peace
>with the Israelis rather than tacitly tolerating "drive-them-into-the-ocean"
>rhetoric?
>
> >For Israel it is a difficult situation, they have to create a peace very
> >quickly, but the current regime does not seem to realize this. A war with
> >Iraq would probably buy them some time and I will not be surprised if they
> >provoke it, if US procrastinate.
>
>I'd like to have seen some of the more moderate Middle Eastern Muslim 
>nat

Re: [biofuel] plese, send me info

[soni_fach]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>I will test durability diesel engine, but i don't know how to start
>> experiment. i hope ican information about it.
>>thank's
>
> What aspect of the durability of diesel engines do you want to test?
>
> Keith

The aspesct are :
1. Fuel oil systems
2. cooling systems
3. lubricating oil system
4. Fuel room condition

thank's for your attention
Soni Fach


*
>
>
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>
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---
E-mail ini dikirim menggunakan ITS Webmail .
http://mail.its.ac.id/




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Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS

[Timothy Powell]

Well, I try I just hope my new Newholland will
continue to run as good as it looks, thanks. --- Appal
Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 




Timothy,

The process is painlessly easy. You could use veg oil
and Red
Devil lye off the grocer's shelf. Locating the
methanol would
only take a few phone calls. Borrow a set of scales
and use the
"standby" 3.5 grams of caustic per liter of fresh
oil.

You'll see the process unfold before your eyes in a
matter of
minutes. Then all that's left for you to do is start
envisioning
as large a scale as you would like.

And it's probably better that way, as you wouldn't be
able to see
the reaction, appreciate it or understand it as well
simply by
looking at a handful of stainless steel tanks and
listening to
motors hum.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Timothy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS


>
> The help that I need is to see the process.
> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> 
> 
>
>
> 
> Timothy Powell wrote:
> 
> >I would not be a good idea if I had to buy
diesel
> fuel
> >and I am having a hard time getting help to
> make
> >biodiesel.
> 
> What help do you need?
> 
> Keith
> 
> PS: Please turn off html in your email program.
This
> list is 
> text-only, no html, no attachments.
Thankyou.
> 
> 
> > --- Keith Addison
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Timothy Powell writes:
> >
> > >Yes, CH4 a solid oxide fuel
> cell
> > >I was hoping to set up a co-gen with my
40
> hp.
> > >Newholland tractor with it's 25KW pto
> generator in
> >the
> > >mean time---
> >
> >So what's stopping you?
> >
> >Keith
> >
> > >Keith Addison
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > >I find it hard to believe that no
one
> has a
> >set-up
> > > >that they are proud of, and would
want
> to show it
> >off.
> > > >Let me tell you when my SOFC is up
and
> running,
> >I'll
> > > >be putting up signs and inviting
people
> in off
> >the
> > > >street to come see. Anyway I really
want
> to see
> >how
> > > >it's done
> > > >Thanks:)
> > >
> > >When your what is running? SOFC = solid
oxide
> fuel
> >cell?
> > >
> > >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >
> >href="">
>
href=""http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html">http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html">http://journeytof
orever.org/biofuel.html">
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> 
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Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

on 9/25/02 2:57 PM, Michael S Briggs at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel in my Jetta
> TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
> First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel line
> just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
> http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
> It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming for 70
> degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the engine (could
> be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch in the car,
> but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up)

NOTE: "A while" is about 10 secondsit heats up almost instantly.

Also you are confusing biodiesel with SVO I think - your biodiesel will not
likely ever get to a point of being so thick that you have to worry about it
flowing to the VEG-Therm, unless it is PME or you live in Alaska.



should warm up
> the fuel just before the injectors so that it's nice and liquidy (whereas
> at temps below 30-35ish degrees fahrenheit it would be somewhat gooey).
> So, the engine *should* then be able to start on that nice warm fuel.
> The TDI also sends more fuel to the engine than actually gets
> ignited in the cylinders, with some of it being warmed by the engine (as
> well as the heater if I install one), and then circulating back to the
> fuel tank, where it warms the fuel. So, once the engine is started, this
> *might*

I would say that it will do that, without a doubt, not "might".


 be enough to warm all of the biodiesel to the point that it is
> nice and liquidy. But, the concern is - before all the fuel gets warmed up
> enough, it may just put too much stress on the fuel pump. The fuel pump
> is right next to the engine, and pulls fuel to it. The heater would have
> to be just behind the pump (away from the engine), so it would warm up the
> fuel behind it, but not necessarily the fuel IN it. So, that might not
> work.
> 
> The second option is to use an SVO system, with me leaning towards
> the one sold by Greasel (www.greasel.com). In the winter, I could put
> petro diesel (with cold weather additives) in the main tank, and 100%
> biodiesel in the auxillary tank. Essentially operating it in the same
> manner as if I were running it on SVO (which I might do in the summer).
> 
> So, what do people think - is the SVO setup necessary, or could I just use
> the heater to run on biodiesel in the winter?

Biodiesel is not going to go that viscous on you. Just heat it up. Your car
was designed to run B100, with gelling in the filter the only concern here,
IMO, not stuff being too viscous in the tank or in the lines.

Regards,





> 
> Mike
> 
> -
> Michael S. Briggs"Never judge a man until you've
> UNH Physics Departmentwalked a mile in his shoes. Then
> (603) 862-2828when you do judge him, you'll be
> a mile away and you'll have
> his shoes."
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> 
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> 



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RE: [biofuel] Radiant barriers

[Hakan Falk]

Kirk,

It is weather data from Stockholm and we have data that represent
a so called standard year. The simulations are made during the
periods October - April.. Some simulations are values for full year.
I can not tell you exact periods for this specific calculations,
since I do not have access to the calculations, only briefs of results
that describes behavior and conclusions.

Engelbrekt IsfŠlt who is one of the partners in our web site have
recently done an extensive research in emission treatment of bricks.
It show some quite remarkable results and resulted in some patents.
At the moment they are working on licensing and test production.
When the products are market ready, I think that we have a quite
complete background material for descriptions of the effect of low
emission materials.

Hakan


At 09:05 PM 9/25/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>What is the assumed outdoor temperature these efficiency ratings are
>calculated from?
>
>Kirk
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:47 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] Radiant barriers
>
>
>
>Caroline,
>
>I finally read trough the fact sheet from Department of Energy and they
>seem to miss a few things about radiant barriers. They are studying and
>measure the effect of radiant barriers with fixed air temperature and
>without any other considerations. The assumptions and measurements does not
>consider the effect on the effective temperature and comfort.
>
>Simulations show that with the same effective temperature (perception
>temperature) the air temperature will be lower and the comfort factor
>improve and it is verified by practical research. This means that in the
>practical use, the air temperature will be lowered with 2-4 degree F with
>the indirect saving 10 to 20% and the total saving between 15 to 25%. This
>is also confirmed by the practical results from the studies of low emission
>paints.
>
>http://energy.saving.nu/calculations/effectivetemp.shtml
>
>The problem with the fixation on air temperature and insulation, is that
>they both only represent a smaller part of our environment and will not
>represent the actual reality. By varying radiation factors, air
>temperatures and humidity, it is possible to create a room with the same
>perception of temperature, within an air temperature that ranges from 16 to
>26 degree Celsius. The simplest way to study this is by field studies of
>the practical result on energy use. It can also be studied by measurement
>of effective temperature in built models or simulations that includes HVAC
>system, effective temperature and comfort coefficient.
>
>Since you described your house, I am sure that you have experiences that
>have a correlation with what I am saying. DOE's paper on radiant floors,
>show similar discrepancies from realities.
>
>Hakan



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Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[Appal Energy]

All the "blood for oil" side tracking put aside, I believe that
both Senators Daschel and Byrd hit the target dead center today
when they expressed the error of politicizing when human lives
and national integrity lay in the balance, no matter what
decision is made.

What the US president is asking for is the contemporary
equivalent of Lyndon Baines Johnson's Gulf of Tonkin Resolution -
an open end ability for one person to determine where and when to
wage war as he alone sees fit.

(A refresher can be found at
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html )

And whether or not a person has high or low regard for Albert
Gore, he too was center on target when he spoke of the
squandering of international and national public and political
good will after September 11th that could have long sustained a
battle against terrorism, as long as it was principled and
ethical in its methods.

By working towards a UN originated resolve, the US avoids
initiating its own Pearl Harbor against what will inevitably
become a considerably more vast "enemy" than a single dictator.
Unilateral aggression will only create untold martyrs and a long
term and almost assuredly irreversible hell resembling more the
Gaza Strip, with the United States targeted rather than Israel.

Which of course will justify escalating aggression on both sides
wherever "deemed fit."

We can only pray that wiser heads prevail than the present head
of state in the US.

No loss of human life, even if it is that of one's "enemy," can
be addressed so blindly and glibly.

Todd Swearingen


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq


> >USA are in a hurry, because waiting 6 month to a year, will
probably make
> >any attack on Iraq much more difficult, the excuses might
> >be depleted and the risks more obvious. It is probably a go or
no go
> >situation within the next 6 month. For US it is extremely
important to
> >secure oil supplies from Iraq. Especially if Professor Hubbell
was right
> >and US have to compete for a declining Middle East oil supply.
>
> I think that a Bush Administration is a worst-case scenario in
one respect, for
> proponents of untangling and understanding US priorities,
because it gives too
> much credence to the idea that it is ok to see US policy in the
simplistic terms
> of going for Oil, and to heck with other points.  This evening
in San Diego
> there were protesters on TV claiming (with signs and such) that
we should not
> fight "for oil" and that is what this war will be all about.
>
> I do not agree with this view of things.
>
> I do agree that understanding our Oil Dependencies, and our
irrationalities both
> past and present, would be good and would improve US foreign
policy and our
> ability to sell foreign policy, but there is another matter
here, which I think
> is the pressing matter of some countries' leaderships showing,
credibly, that
> they are working toward killing millions of Americans.
>
> There is no question but that understanding how Oil fits into
this picture would
> be wise.  We have, for example, funded much of the
long-standing attack which is
> being waged against us.  It is undoubtedly the case that much
of Iranian wealth
> (some of which goes to funding the fight against us) is derived
from Oil Sales
> on world markets (it does not matter, at all, that the US
boycotts the oil, if
> other countries with good currencies such as Japan will buy
it), and that much
> of others' roundabout support for so many of our conflicts is
funded by our own
> Oil Purchases fourth-hand (witness some Saudis and their
support for attacks on
> Israel and the United States).
>
> For me, understanding our present situation vis-a-vis Iraq is
not as simple as
> saying "we want their oil and that's it", although, I must
admit, it is
> disgusting to me to watch the Bush Administration turn down
opportunities to
> improve our oil dependency situation.  If one is going to
attack a dictator and
> those who follow him, one might as well have the decency to
stop doing business
> with him first, and if one finds this difficult, one might as
well have the
> decency to ask why and follow up as much as possible on the
matter, permanently
> changing US policy and doing everything humanly possible to
de-claw the monster
> via means additional to bombing him.
>
> As to the Saudis, we have failed to do many of the things that
I think would
> have been advisable during the years of "good" relations with
them (while they
> were fostering the hate that seemed to exist within those 15
hijackers) and now
> we still seem to be rejecting real true earnest followup.
Where is the Bush
> Administration and Congress on Alternative Fuel Vehicles,
overall energy
> independence, etc?  All they seem to want to do is pretty much
what they wanted
> a year and a half ago: drill for oil, give tax breaks to the
oil drillers, claim
> that Electric Vehicles and 

RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...

[kirk]

I don't know about printers ink in the diet but seems most forms of
cellulose work. Or lignin.
Kirk

-Original Message-
From: Grahams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:44 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...


At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>If you have access to cotton!!!
>I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
>There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
>Turn cellulose into yummy!

One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on coffee
grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too weird for
words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?, I think
I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
Caroline




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Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

>USA are in a hurry, because waiting 6 month to a year, will probably make 
>any attack on Iraq much more difficult, the excuses might
>be depleted and the risks more obvious. It is probably a go or no go 
>situation within the next 6 month. For US it is extremely important to
>secure oil supplies from Iraq. Especially if Professor Hubbell was right 
>and US have to compete for a declining Middle East oil supply.

I think that a Bush Administration is a worst-case scenario in one respect, for
proponents of untangling and understanding US priorities, because it gives too
much credence to the idea that it is ok to see US policy in the simplistic terms
of going for Oil, and to heck with other points.  This evening in San Diego
there were protesters on TV claiming (with signs and such) that we should not
fight "for oil" and that is what this war will be all about.

I do not agree with this view of things.  

I do agree that understanding our Oil Dependencies, and our irrationalities both
past and present, would be good and would improve US foreign policy and our
ability to sell foreign policy, but there is another matter here, which I think
is the pressing matter of some countries' leaderships showing, credibly, that
they are working toward killing millions of Americans.

There is no question but that understanding how Oil fits into this picture would
be wise.  We have, for example, funded much of the long-standing attack which is
being waged against us.  It is undoubtedly the case that much of Iranian wealth
(some of which goes to funding the fight against us) is derived from Oil Sales
on world markets (it does not matter, at all, that the US boycotts the oil, if
other countries with good currencies such as Japan will buy it), and that much
of others' roundabout support for so many of our conflicts is funded by our own
Oil Purchases fourth-hand (witness some Saudis and their support for attacks on
Israel and the United States).  

For me, understanding our present situation vis-a-vis Iraq is not as simple as
saying "we want their oil and that's it", although, I must admit, it is
disgusting to me to watch the Bush Administration turn down opportunities to
improve our oil dependency situation.  If one is going to attack a dictator and
those who follow him, one might as well have the decency to stop doing business
with him first, and if one finds this difficult, one might as well have the
decency to ask why and follow up as much as possible on the matter, permanently
changing US policy and doing everything humanly possible to de-claw the monster
via means additional to bombing him.

As to the Saudis, we have failed to do many of the things that I think would
have been advisable during the years of "good" relations with them (while they
were fostering the hate that seemed to exist within those 15 hijackers) and now
we still seem to be rejecting real true earnest followup.  Where is the Bush
Administration and Congress on Alternative Fuel Vehicles, overall energy
independence, etc?  All they seem to want to do is pretty much what they wanted
a year and a half ago: drill for oil, give tax breaks to the oil drillers, claim
that Electric Vehicles and Solar energy are for loonies, bomb people who have
used our own dollars against us, etc.

Where are they on asking why we never demanded (as we should have) that the
Saudis get off their fat monarchistic backsides and be an active force for peace
with the Israelis rather than tacitly tolerating "drive-them-into-the-ocean"
rhetoric?

>For Israel it is a difficult situation, they have to create a peace very 
>quickly, but the current regime does not seem to realize this. A war with 
>Iraq would probably buy them some time and I will not be surprised if they 
>provoke it, if US procrastinate.

I'd like to have seen some of the more moderate Middle Eastern Muslim nations do
more to have brought about a permanent compromise as regards Israel.  Never mind
my naivete, their complaints with Israel, Israel's stubborness, etc.  I may not
have agreed with the wisdom of founding Israel in '48 had I been around, but
they're not going anywhere, and I think there have been some missed
opportunities to find a compromise solution that no one would have liked but
that would have forestalled most of the carnage we now see.  Instead, during
those periods where some initiative might have made headway, everyone just seems
to have fallen back on the status quo, waiting to see if they could drive Israel
into the Sea.  I guess they couldn't.  Meanwhile, so much suffering has
occurred, through several generations of Palestinians, as well as Israelis.
Couldn't someone on the cushy side of the Arab equation have swallowed some
pride and sought some compromise more aggressively?  Maybe they'd claim they
had.  I don't know.  I guess they didn't try hard enough.  Or I guess they'd say
that Netenyahu and the like have been too intransigent.

>It might be good times ahead for bio fuel and energy saving

Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Appal Energy]

Michael,

I strongly doubt that just a fuel line heater would keep you
problem free with B-100 during an average winter. Not even an
average winter in Texas or Georgia. No matter what temp the
recirculated fuel would raise the fuel in the tank to, you're
going to run into the problem of fuel starvatation long before
the fuel in the tank becomes sufficiently fluid.  More trouble
free would be a two tank system such as has been developed for
SVO and WVO.

70*C is a bit high of a temp to shoot for. 15*C would be more
than sufficient (60*F).

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Michael S Briggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel


>
> I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel in
my Jetta
> TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
>   First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel
line
> just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
> http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
> It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming
for 70
> degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the
engine (could
> be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch
in the car,
> but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up)
should warm up
> the fuel just before the injectors so that it's nice and
liquidy (whereas
> at temps below 30-35ish degrees fahrenheit it would be somewhat
gooey).
> So, the engine *should* then be able to start on that nice warm
fuel.
>   The TDI also sends more fuel to the engine than actually
gets
> ignited in the cylinders, with some of it being warmed by the
engine (as
> well as the heater if I install one), and then circulating back
to the
> fuel tank, where it warms the fuel. So, once the engine is
started, this
> *might* be enough to warm all of the biodiesel to the point
that it is
> nice and liquidy. But, the concern is - before all the fuel
gets warmed up
> enough, it may just put too much stress on the fuel pump. The
fuel pump
> is right next to the engine, and pulls fuel to it. The heater
would have
> to be just behind the pump (away from the engine), so it would
warm up the
> fuel behind it, but not necessarily the fuel IN it. So, that
might not
> work.
>
>   The second option is to use an SVO system, with me
leaning towards
> the one sold by Greasel (www.greasel.com). In the winter, I
could put
> petro diesel (with cold weather additives) in the main tank,
and 100%
> biodiesel in the auxillary tank. Essentially operating it in
the same
> manner as if I were running it on SVO (which I might do in the
summer).
>
> So, what do people think - is the SVO setup necessary, or could
I just use
> the heater to run on biodiesel in the winter?
>
> Mike
>
> -
> Michael S. Briggs"Never judge a man until you've
> UNH Physics Departmentwalked a mile in his shoes.
Then
> (603) 862-2828  when you do judge him, you'll
be
> a mile away and you'll have
> his shoes."
> ---
>
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Radiant barriers

[kirk]

What is the assumed outdoor temperature these efficiency ratings are
calculated from?

Kirk

-Original Message-
From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:47 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Radiant barriers



Caroline,

I finally read trough the fact sheet from Department of Energy and they
seem to miss a few things about radiant barriers. They are studying and
measure the effect of radiant barriers with fixed air temperature and
without any other considerations. The assumptions and measurements does not
consider the effect on the effective temperature and comfort.

Simulations show that with the same effective temperature (perception
temperature) the air temperature will be lower and the comfort factor
improve and it is verified by practical research. This means that in the
practical use, the air temperature will be lowered with 2-4 degree F with
the indirect saving 10 to 20% and the total saving between 15 to 25%. This
is also confirmed by the practical results from the studies of low emission
paints.

http://energy.saving.nu/calculations/effectivetemp.shtml

The problem with the fixation on air temperature and insulation, is that
they both only represent a smaller part of our environment and will not
represent the actual reality. By varying radiation factors, air
temperatures and humidity, it is possible to create a room with the same
perception of temperature, within an air temperature that ranges from 16 to
26 degree Celsius. The simplest way to study this is by field studies of
the practical result on energy use. It can also be studied by measurement
of effective temperature in built models or simulations that includes HVAC
system, effective temperature and comfort coefficient.

Since you described your house, I am sure that you have experiences that
have a correlation with what I am saying. DOE's paper on radiant floors,
show similar discrepancies from realities.

Hakan

At 11:48 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>This excerpt is taken from the following source:
>http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html



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Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS

[Appal Energy]

Timothy,

The process is painlessly easy. You could use veg oil and Red
Devil lye off the grocer's shelf. Locating the methanol would
only take a few phone calls. Borrow a set of scales and use the
"standby" 3.5 grams of caustic per liter of fresh oil.

You'll see the process unfold before your eyes in a matter of
minutes. Then all that's left for you to do is start envisioning
as large a scale as you would like.

And it's probably better that way, as you wouldn't be able to see
the reaction, appreciate it or understand it as well simply by
looking at a handful of stainless steel tanks and listening to
motors hum.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Timothy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS


>
> The help that I need is to see the process.
> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
>
>
> 
> Timothy Powell wrote:
> 
> >I would not be a good idea if I had to buy diesel
> fuel
> >and I am having a hard time getting help to
> make
> >biodiesel.
> 
> What help do you need?
> 
> Keith
> 
> PS: Please turn off html in your email program. This
> list is 
> text-only, no html, no attachments. Thankyou.
> 
> 
> > --- Keith Addison
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Timothy Powell writes:

> >

> > >Yes, CH4 a solid oxide fuel
> cell

> > >I was hoping to set up a co-gen with my 40
> hp.

> > >Newholland tractor with it's 25KW pto
> generator in
> >the

> > >mean time---

> >

> >So what's stopping you?

> >

> >Keith

> >

> > >Keith Addison

> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:

> >

> > > >I find it hard to believe that no one
> has a
> >set-up

> > > >that they are proud of, and would want
> to show it
> >off.

> > > >Let me tell you when my SOFC is up and
> running,
> >I'll

> > > >be putting up signs and inviting people
> in off
> >the

> > > >street to come see. Anyway I really want
> to see
> >how

> > > >it's done

> > > >Thanks:)

> > >

> > >When your what is running? SOFC = solid oxide
> fuel
> >cell?

> > >

> > >Keith

> >

> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

> > >href="
href="http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html";>http://journeytof
orever.org/biofuel.html"> href="http://journeytoforev";>http://journeytoforev
> 
> >er.org/biofuel.html

> >

> >Biofuels list archives:

> > >href="
href="http://archive.nnytech.net/";>http://archive.nnytech.net/">
href="http://archive.nnytech.net/";>http://archive.nnytech.net/

> >

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> >address.

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href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/";>http://docs.yahoo.com/in
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> >

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> >
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> >
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Re: [biofuel] Berkeley ca- straight vegetable oil fuels conversion workshop-DIY Skillshare, sunday, sept 29

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I bet someone from here might want to attend:

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/erg/index.html


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?

[Appal Energy]

Michael,

Understood.

Whether or not the "crude glycerin" layer tends to solidify at
room temp will depend on how much of the FFAs end up in the
glycerin layer (acid/base versus straight base reactions)
(heavily degraded feedstock versus not), if the amount of
catalyst was kept to a minumum creating the least possible amount
of soap (both from FFAs and FAs) and, as you pointed out, what
fraction of the FFAs are derivatives of saturated fats (no double
bonds and generally solid at room temperature) or unsaturated
fats (at least one multiple bond and generally liquid at room
temperature).

With FFAs being products of hydrolized and/or oxidized Fatty
Acids (FAs) it would be useful to know if any particular FA,
whether saturated or unsaturated, is subject to decomposition
into a FFA more readily than another. This could in turn affect
the ratio of saturated to unsaturated FFAs created in a feedstock
during its decay, in turn affecting the melt point (hardening
point) of the soap that resides in the "crude glycerin" ("crude
soap") layer after a base reaction.. (A higher saturated FFA
fraction would yield a higher melt point soap than a higher
unsaturated fraction of the same volume.)

All that said, I put a list of maximum FFA concentrations of
clean fats at the foot of this note. You will no doubt observe
that a semi- to well used or abused vegetable oil can easily have
the same or greater percentage of FFAs as some of the fresh fats
on the list.

In the truest sense of understanding, the "crude glycerin"
layer's hardening is due to the high ratio of soap (FFAs) to
glycerin, with the temperature of solidification (or not)
dependant upon the chemical makeup of the FAs and  FFAs -
saturated versus unsaturated.

But there is also an "inevitable" crossing point on the curves
between high FFA feedstock which is low in saturated oils and
FFAs, and low FFA feedstock which is high in saturated oils and
FFAs. In other words, the "crude glycerin" ("crude soap") settled
from the transesterification of well used corn or soybean oil
could conceivably solidify before that of a transesterification
of fats or oils higher in stearic acid. (Which, I believe, was
your "proviso.")

I suppose all this could be construed as a rather backhanded way
of pointing out the benefits of acid/base processing for
biodiesel, even in a micro-manufacturing climate, rather than
straight base reactions. The less soap that is produced, the less
possibility that the crude glycerin will solidify, no matter the
feedstock or its level of degradation.

And like Camillo Holocek, it is rather doubtful to believe that
many biodieselers are more interested in the consistency of their
glycerin than they are in their yield of biodiesel. That is, of
course, unless they are using "hardened glycerin" - make that
"hardened soap" - as an indicator of how much room there is for
improvement of their production methods.

Below are the maximum FFA percents of various fat feedstocks, as
"rendered" by the American Fats and Oils Association. These are
"pre-use" percents, clean and unused, save for the instance of
yellow grease, which has been rendered.)  In some instances the
FFA content is high as a result of acidulated soap stock from the
oil processing industry being added to the fats. These high FFA
tallows are then primarily used as energy additives in animal
feed.

Specifications for Tallows and Greases:
http://www.dupps.com/talgrspc.html
1) Edible tallow   0.75
2) Lard (edible)   0.50
3) Top white tallow   2.0
4) All beef packer tallow   2.0
5) Extra fancy tallow   3.0
6) Fancy tallow   4.0
7) Bleachable fancy tallow   4.0
8) Prime tallow   6.0
9) Special tallow   10.0
10) No 2 tallow   35.0
11) A tallow   15.0
12) Choice white grease   4.0
13) Yellow grease   15.0

 Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Michael Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid
glycerine?


> Hi Todd,
>
> You could perhaps have added that soaps made from
> saturated fats such as stearin are harder than those
> made from unsaturated fats such as olein.
>
> As a consequence, impure glycerol which contains
> stearin-based soaps (coconut, tallow etc.) should be
> more solid than a glycerol which contains olein-based
> soaps. (Provided of course that they are similar in
> concentration, dispersion etc. etc. etc.)
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michael Allen
> Thailand
>
>
> --- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Crude glycerin does not solidify at room
> > temperature. It's the
> > soaps combined with the glycerin that give cause for
> > any type of
> > solidification. I suppose that technically glycerin
> > with a higher
> > solidified soap fraction, such as waste oils from
> > animal fats, is
> > indeed "crude." But in such cases the soap volume is
> > generally
> > higher than the glycerin volume, which would mean
> > that calling it
> > crude glycerin would be incorrect. Technically it
> >

Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS

[Keith Addison]

Timothy Powell wrote:

>The help that I need is to see the process.

I don't think you need that. Most people here who make biodiesel just 
went ahead and did it. We made our first biodiesel based on 12 
paragraphs we found on the Web, just about all there was available 
then. Now there's excellent information available on all aspects of 
production, especially for home-brewers - very informative websites, 
groups of experienced people like this one to help you along, massive 
archives you can search, like this one. Look at the links at the 
bottom of the message. Just do it, go ahead.

PLEASE SWITCH OFF HTML IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM.

No need to send all that garbage code to a thousand people, eh? Thankyou.

Keith

 

> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Timothy Powell wrote:
>
>>I would not be a good idea if I had to buy diesel
>fuel
>>and I am having a hard time getting help to
>make
>>biodiesel.
>
>What help do you need?
>
>Keith
>
>PS: Please turn off html in your email program. This
>list is 
>text-only, no html, no attachments. Thankyou.


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[biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Michael S Briggs]

I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel in my Jetta
TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel line
just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming for 70
degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the engine (could
be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch in the car,
but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up) should warm up
the fuel just before the injectors so that it's nice and liquidy (whereas
at temps below 30-35ish degrees fahrenheit it would be somewhat gooey).
So, the engine *should* then be able to start on that nice warm fuel.
The TDI also sends more fuel to the engine than actually gets
ignited in the cylinders, with some of it being warmed by the engine (as
well as the heater if I install one), and then circulating back to the
fuel tank, where it warms the fuel. So, once the engine is started, this
*might* be enough to warm all of the biodiesel to the point that it is
nice and liquidy. But, the concern is - before all the fuel gets warmed up
enough, it may just put too much stress on the fuel pump. The fuel pump
is right next to the engine, and pulls fuel to it. The heater would have
to be just behind the pump (away from the engine), so it would warm up the
fuel behind it, but not necessarily the fuel IN it. So, that might not
work.

The second option is to use an SVO system, with me leaning towards
the one sold by Greasel (www.greasel.com). In the winter, I could put
petro diesel (with cold weather additives) in the main tank, and 100%
biodiesel in the auxillary tank. Essentially operating it in the same
manner as if I were running it on SVO (which I might do in the summer).

So, what do people think - is the SVO setup necessary, or could I just use
the heater to run on biodiesel in the winter?

Mike

-
Michael S. Briggs   "Never judge a man until you've
UNH Physics Department  walked a mile in his shoes. Then
(603) 862-2828  when you do judge him, you'll be
a mile away and you'll have
his shoes."
---



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Re: [biofuel] ONTARIO BIODIESELERS

[Timothy Powell]

The help that I need is to see the process.
 --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





Timothy Powell wrote:

>I would not be a good idea if I had to buy diesel
fuel
>and I am having a hard time getting help to
make
>biodiesel.

What help do you need?

Keith

PS: Please turn off html in your email program. This
list is 
text-only, no html, no attachments. Thankyou.


> --- Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Timothy Powell writes:
>
> >Yes, CH4 a solid oxide fuel
cell
> >I was hoping to set up a co-gen with my 40
hp.
> >Newholland tractor with it's 25KW pto
generator in
>the
> >mean time---
>
>So what's stopping you?
>
>Keith
>
> >Keith Addison
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > >I find it hard to believe that no one
has a
>set-up
> > >that they are proud of, and would want
to show it
>off.
> > >Let me tell you when my SOFC is up and
running,
>I'll
> > >be putting up signs and inviting people
in off
>the
> > >street to come see. Anyway I really want
to see
>how
> > >it's done
> > >Thanks:)
> >
> >When your what is running? SOFC = solid oxide
fuel
>cell?
> >
> >Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>
>href=""
href="http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html">http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html">http://journeytoforev

>er.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>
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href="http://archive.nnytech.net/">http://archive.nnytech.net/">http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
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>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Separator

[Keith Addison]

>Probably a silly question, but I haven't seen anyone mention using a
>centrifuge-type device (like an old-fashioned cream separator) to
>pull the biodiesel from glycerine and soaps.
>
>Anyone tried this?

Yes. Have a look in the archives.
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Keith


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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Separator

[Appal Energy]

Might be useful to get the last fraction of biodiesel out of the
soap layer quicker. I've seen a 55 gallon barrel filled with
nothing but this layer exude ~5 gallons of biodiesel after
sitting for several months.

The better trick is to not produce any soap at all, or nearly no
soap. This expedites the separation process and reduces the
fraction that might loligag around in the glycerin/soap/alcohol
layer after the majority of the biodiesel has already separated.

A lot easier to just produce biodiesel, rather than trying to
separate it from other substances.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Separator


> Probably a silly question, but I haven't seen anyone mention
using a
> centrifuge-type device (like an old-fashioned cream separator)
to
> pull the biodiesel from glycerine and soaps.
>
> Anyone tried this?
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Radiant barriers

[Hakan Falk]

Caroline,

I finally read trough the fact sheet from Department of Energy and they 
seem to miss a few things about radiant barriers. They are studying and 
measure the effect of radiant barriers with fixed air temperature and 
without any other considerations. The assumptions and measurements does not 
consider the effect on the effective temperature and comfort.

Simulations show that with the same effective temperature (perception 
temperature) the air temperature will be lower and the comfort factor 
improve and it is verified by practical research. This means that in the 
practical use, the air temperature will be lowered with 2-4 degree F with 
the indirect saving 10 to 20% and the total saving between 15 to 25%. This 
is also confirmed by the practical results from the studies of low emission 
paints.

http://energy.saving.nu/calculations/effectivetemp.shtml

The problem with the fixation on air temperature and insulation, is that 
they both only represent a smaller part of our environment and will not 
represent the actual reality. By varying radiation factors, air 
temperatures and humidity, it is possible to create a room with the same 
perception of temperature, within an air temperature that ranges from 16 to 
26 degree Celsius. The simplest way to study this is by field studies of 
the practical result on energy use. It can also be studied by measurement 
of effective temperature in built models or simulations that includes HVAC 
system, effective temperature and comfort coefficient.

Since you described your house, I am sure that you have experiences that 
have a correlation with what I am saying. DOE's paper on radiant floors, 
show similar discrepancies from realities.

Hakan

At 11:48 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>This excerpt is taken from the following source:
>http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html



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[biofuels-biz] Russia, Iraq, OPEC, Oil Pricing

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http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2002/09/25/006.html

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[biofuel] Russia, Iraq, OPEC, Oil Pricing

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[biofuel] Freedom and the environment (was: The fight between Enviro and Freedom)

[Kenneth Kron]

A friend of mine Richard Moon see http://extraordinarylistening.com/ 
says we should ask ourselves.

a) Am I living for myself at the expense of others?
b) Am I living for others at my own expense?
c) Am I living for myself and others, bearing my burdens and allowing 
others to bear thiers.

The correct answer is probably c.  He also says, Jesus said "Love thy 
nieghbor as thyself" not more than, not less than, just as.

Killing the environment means asking our children or our childrens 
children to bear our expenses (see item a).  Forgoing business totally 
in order to save the economy is not at all required.  Thinking about 
living in a renewable way is required if this planet is going to 
continue to sustain human life.

Don't forget that when we take the time to measure the productivity of 
farms Organic Farms are just as productive in the short term and leave 
the land healthier.  That's renewable.

Kenneth


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RE: [biofuel] A trip through retrofit hell...

[Grahams]

At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>If you have access to cotton!!!
>I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
>There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
>Turn cellulose into yummy!

One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on coffee 
grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too weird for 
words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?, I think 
I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
Caroline



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

[Hakan Falk]

At 07:17 PM 9/25/2002 +0200, you wrote:

>You are right and that is also one of the reasons why I mentioned paint. If
>you mix it in paint, it can be compared with a very thick layer  of dust.
>Apart from that the reflective paint is very interesting, it is the only
>technical data I know at the moment that could give an indication. In this
>case we should not see a degeneration with time.
>
>If you paint a roof white, it would from the beginning have an
>effectiveness that is lesser than very dirty aluminium on the attic. A
>white roof will also lose its effectiveness very fast by being dirty.
>
>What is half of effectiveness? Emission factor going from <0.09 to 0.18 or
>going from <0.09 to 5.4,

Typo error should be 0.54

>I do not know. Even if I assume the worst case,
>the efficiency is large, compared with the majority of materials used in
>buildings.
>
>If you find any numbers, please tell me and in the mean time I  will look
>for it also. The problem with loose statements is that they often can make
>a virtue out of a deficiency, depending of the situation.  They are made
>without qualification and for competitive reasons.
>
>In the acoustic field I have often seen "the sound pressure is half" or
>"the amplifier has 100W output instead of 50W". The only problem is that
>the hearing is logarithmic and a halving or doubling is the smallest change
>a human can detect. For the perception of half or double, it has to be a
>change of 10 times. Argumentation is sometimes more physiological than
>real, as you also could see from the earlier parts of this discussion.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 11:48 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 09:13 PM 9/24/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> > >This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective
> > >with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer
> > >the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could
> > >go from its potential emission factor of less than  0.1 to 0.4+, but
> > >it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9
> > >as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint,
> >
> >This excerpt is taken from the following source:
> >http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html
> >
> >Most of the field tests have been done with clean radiant barriers.
> >Laboratory measurements have shown that dust on the surface of aluminum
> >foil increases the emissivity and decreases the reflectivity. This means
> >that dust or other particles on the exposed surface of a radiant barrier
> >will reduce its effectiveness. Radiant barriers installed in locations that
> >collect dust or other surface contaminants will have a decreasing benefit
> >to the homeowner over time.
> >The attic floor application is most susceptible to accumulation of dust,
> >while downward facing reflective surfaces used with many roof applications
> >are not likely to become dusty. When radiant barriers are newly installed,
> >some testing shows that the attic floor application will work better than
> >the roof applications. As dust accumulates on the attic floor application,
> >its effectiveness will gradually decrease. After a long enough period of
> >time, a dusty attic floor application will lose much of its effectiveness.
> >Predictive modeling results, based on testing, suggest that a dusty attic
> >floor application will lose about half of its effectiveness after about one
> >to ten years.
> >
> >As I previously stated, this is an older source- 1991 I believe, if there
> >is newer studies to indicate that these predictions are incorrect, I would
> >be interested in reading them.  One problem is determining this would be
> >the possibility that the HVAC equipment (and door seals, window seals,
> >etc.) installed had also deteriorated in effectiveness over time too, thus
> >raising heating/cooling cost which has nothing to do with the dusty radiant
> >barrier.  Additionally, if the actual effects of the radiant barrier are
> >relatively minimal compared to the R-value of the cellulose installed
> >underneath, that too would diminish the ability to compare a measurable
> >difference.
> >
> >Caroline G
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general

[Hakan Falk]

At 09:41 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new home.
> >http://www.warmboard.com/
> >Joe.
>
>Looks cool, I installed our radiant floor system. One thing that I would
>like about putting the PEX under a wood floor is the ability to easily
>access it in the event of a problem.  While hopefully this PEX will last as
>a many years as it is currently touted to last, it has truly not withstood
>the test of time. In addition, things like clogging due to hard water
>deposits are not really discussed much either.

It does not need to be discussed, since it is not a problem for a closed 
circuit.

>On one of my many trips to the building dept, during this construction, I
>met a man there looking for someone who could come repair his radiant floor
>system.  2/3 was not in use, had developed leaks and had to be shut
>off.  He could find no one interested in looking at this job. I could not
>really think of a way to help him, he had installed Italian marble tile
>over the concrete. Removing this, hunting for a leak, (what if the copper
>degrades in another spot), And then trying to put it back together sounded
>rather impossible to me.

I would never recommend copper in the first place, it is asking for 
trouble. I would also insist and check that it would be PEX without any 
kind of connections in the floor. Prolonged pipes is an error that could be 
pursued with the installer. I would also insist that any part of the PEX 
pipe was protected from daylight, since it is hardening and breaking with 
ultraviolet light.


>One thing I learned from having this, is the heating effect is much more
>limited than I thought it would be- meaning there are "strips" of heat. It
>is not like walking on a sun warmed rock, the strips are warm the other
>part is cold.

This is also a common error, the less material between the pipe and the
surface, the less distance between the pipes.

>Thinking that the concrete would absorb and radiate the heat,
>I didn't worry too much about how deep the PEX was installed in the
>concrete. We zip tied them to the rebar and wire. Supposedly the wire is
>pulled up during the pour, reality looked a bit different to me as they
>rushed to pour and spread all the concrete.  We chose the most efficient
>propane water heater I could find,  a Polaris- and paid a lot for it.

If the heater is over sized it will amplify the problem with uneven 
temperature in the floor. You will run it short periods with higher water 
temperature, instead of a constant low temperature in the floor. A very 
common mistake that can be corrected with introduction of a heat storage in 
between.

>But
>it has resulted in bills that are very low compared to what would be
>expected from a house of this size. Of course I combined this with a huge
>amount of insulation- Double or more the recommended R-values for our area,
>walls too.

Insulation is only effective up to a certain size, but if you doubled the 
recommendation, it is probably still effective and worth while. If you 
would double the insulation in the Swedish Building Code (corresponding to 
20 cm mineral wool in walls), it would be a pure waste of money.

>Some of the saving may result in the fact that we can and do
>only operate some of the zones. We have found no need to turn on the middle
>zones or the storage area zone. (I put all closet and "thing" storage
>together in the house for this reason, rather than paying to condition
>space where laundry, food and other "junk" lives.)

Sounds very good.

>If air conditioning is
>a necessity in your climate, I think that in floor radiant heat  becomes a
>luxury item.

I do not think so. It is large savings to be done by cooling the water in 
the floor and only run a very small AC for keeping the air dry. It will be 
more comfortable also. Even if you always circulate the water in the floor 
without heating or cooling and use 3-way valves to regulate addition of 
warm or cold water, you have comfort benefits.

>An air handler system is still needed to move the ac, unless
>you go with individual window units-(zones for each room!), but I am not
>sure about the energy consumption of individual units.  If you are
>using  solar or your own wood and therefore have access to a "free" hot
>water producer, it might make more economic sense.  Personally I just hate
>forced air heat, and radiators were too expensive and too hard to find.
>(new thought- What if you "made your own radiator" out of the PEX ?
>Wouldn't heat a room as evenly, but it may have some advantages, needs to
>be tested.)
>
>Looking back, I think a better system would place the PEX in some sort of
>accessible site- a baseboard channel or along the floor joist, with
>insulation underneath just as we did the concrete,  (perhaps with a  layer
>of reflective mylar on top since there will be a nice air space in
>there).  I would attach the

Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

[Hakan Falk]

You are right and that is also one of the reasons why I mentioned paint. If 
you mix it in paint, it can be compared with a very thick layer  of dust. 
Apart from that the reflective paint is very interesting, it is the only 
technical data I know at the moment that could give an indication. In this 
case we should not see a degeneration with time.

If you paint a roof white, it would from the beginning have an 
effectiveness that is lesser than very dirty aluminium on the attic. A 
white roof will also lose its effectiveness very fast by being dirty.

What is half of effectiveness? Emission factor going from <0.09 to 0.18 or 
going from <0.09 to 5.4, I do not know. Even if I assume the worst case, 
the efficiency is large, compared with the majority of materials used in 
buildings.

If you find any numbers, please tell me and in the mean time I  will look 
for it also. The problem with loose statements is that they often can make 
a virtue out of a deficiency, depending of the situation.  They are made 
without qualification and for competitive reasons.

In the acoustic field I have often seen "the sound pressure is half" or 
"the amplifier has 100W output instead of 50W". The only problem is that 
the hearing is logarithmic and a halving or doubling is the smallest change 
a human can detect. For the perception of half or double, it has to be a 
change of 10 times. Argumentation is sometimes more physiological than 
real, as you also could see from the earlier parts of this discussion.

Hakan

At 11:48 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>At 09:13 PM 9/24/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> >This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective
> >with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer
> >the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could
> >go from its potential emission factor of less than  0.1 to 0.4+, but
> >it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9
> >as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint,
>
>This excerpt is taken from the following source:
>http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html
>
>Most of the field tests have been done with clean radiant barriers.
>Laboratory measurements have shown that dust on the surface of aluminum
>foil increases the emissivity and decreases the reflectivity. This means
>that dust or other particles on the exposed surface of a radiant barrier
>will reduce its effectiveness. Radiant barriers installed in locations that
>collect dust or other surface contaminants will have a decreasing benefit
>to the homeowner over time.
>The attic floor application is most susceptible to accumulation of dust,
>while downward facing reflective surfaces used with many roof applications
>are not likely to become dusty. When radiant barriers are newly installed,
>some testing shows that the attic floor application will work better than
>the roof applications. As dust accumulates on the attic floor application,
>its effectiveness will gradually decrease. After a long enough period of
>time, a dusty attic floor application will lose much of its effectiveness.
>Predictive modeling results, based on testing, suggest that a dusty attic
>floor application will lose about half of its effectiveness after about one
>to ten years.
>
>As I previously stated, this is an older source- 1991 I believe, if there
>is newer studies to indicate that these predictions are incorrect, I would
>be interested in reading them.  One problem is determining this would be
>the possibility that the HVAC equipment (and door seals, window seals,
>etc.) installed had also deteriorated in effectiveness over time too, thus
>raising heating/cooling cost which has nothing to do with the dusty radiant
>barrier.  Additionally, if the actual effects of the radiant barrier are
>relatively minimal compared to the R-value of the cellulose installed
>underneath, that too would diminish the ability to compare a measurable
>difference.
>
>Caroline G
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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AW: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?

[Camillo Holecek]

Sorry folks, 
could someone please enlighten me, why that is such an important topic to you 
what the glycerine is looking like (at room temp., I assume)?

I thought, you all want to produce biodiesel in the first place.
This is not to be sarcastic, I just would like to understand your motives.

Camillo Holecek

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[biofuel] Biodiesel Separator

[Walker]

Probably a silly question, but I haven't seen anyone mention using a 
centrifuge-type device (like an old-fashioned cream separator) to 
pull the biodiesel from glycerine and soaps.

Anyone tried this?


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

[Grahams]

At 09:13 PM 9/24/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective
>with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer
>the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could
>go from its potential emission factor of less than  0.1 to 0.4+, but
>it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9
>as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint,

This excerpt is taken from the following source:
http://www.ornl.gov/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_02.html

Most of the field tests have been done with clean radiant barriers. 
Laboratory measurements have shown that dust on the surface of aluminum 
foil increases the emissivity and decreases the reflectivity. This means 
that dust or other particles on the exposed surface of a radiant barrier 
will reduce its effectiveness. Radiant barriers installed in locations that 
collect dust or other surface contaminants will have a decreasing benefit 
to the homeowner over time.
The attic floor application is most susceptible to accumulation of dust, 
while downward facing reflective surfaces used with many roof applications 
are not likely to become dusty. When radiant barriers are newly installed, 
some testing shows that the attic floor application will work better than 
the roof applications. As dust accumulates on the attic floor application, 
its effectiveness will gradually decrease. After a long enough period of 
time, a dusty attic floor application will lose much of its effectiveness. 
Predictive modeling results, based on testing, suggest that a dusty attic 
floor application will lose about half of its effectiveness after about one 
to ten years.

As I previously stated, this is an older source- 1991 I believe, if there 
is newer studies to indicate that these predictions are incorrect, I would 
be interested in reading them.  One problem is determining this would be 
the possibility that the HVAC equipment (and door seals, window seals, 
etc.) installed had also deteriorated in effectiveness over time too, thus 
raising heating/cooling cost which has nothing to do with the dusty radiant 
barrier.  Additionally, if the actual effects of the radiant barrier are 
relatively minimal compared to the R-value of the cellulose installed 
underneath, that too would diminish the ability to compare a measurable 
difference.

Caroline G

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 09/25/02

[EREN]

=
EREN NETWORK NEWS -- September 25, 2002
A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).

=

Featuring:
*News and Events
   Weather Uncertain as Solar Decathlon Competition Gears Up
   L.A. Expands Solar Program, Rolls Out 400 Electric Vehicles
   Large Wind Plants Planned for the Dakotas and Maryland
   Sustainability Mandated for Washington State Government
   DOE to Fund up to $70 Million in Fuel Cell Research
   HUD, DOE, EPA to Work on Energy Efficient Affordable Housing
   "Renewable Energy Atlas of the West" Goes Online

*Site News
   Harvesting Clean Energy

*Energy Facts and Tips
   Updates on Recent "Energy Facts" Stories

*About this Newsletter


--
NEWS AND EVENTS
--
Weather Uncertain as Solar Decathlon Competition Gears Up

The competition phase of the Solar Decathlon begins on Thursday, and
the Solar Village -- consisting of the 14 competing solar houses --
is steadily taking shape on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
The university teams and their partially constructed homes all
arrived safely, despite treks from as far away as Texas, Missouri,
Colorado, and even Puerto Rico. And as the Solar Village takes
shape, so does the Solar Decathlon Web site, which now features
daily photos of the competition. During the competition, the site
will also feature team diaries, scoring results, and rankings. See
the Solar Decathlon Web site at:
.

The competition will be open to the public starting Thursday, but
for those of us unable to visit in person, the Web site now provides
images and descriptions of each entry. Through these new Web pages,
you can see the diversity of approaches used by the teams and gain
an appreciation for the creativity and innovation of the entries.
Although every team combines energy efficiency and solar
technologies in their homes, the teams are using a variety of
strategies to maintain comfortable interior temperatures, including
water-filled walls and columns for heat storage, radiant floor
heating, heat pumps, natural ventilation, and shutters and awnings.
For daylighting, some teams are using high-tech skylights and
translucent walls. The Texas A&M team even designed and built its
own appliances. And although it isn't part of the competition, many
teams took extra efforts to use sustainable materials in their
homes. See the "Follow the Teams" section of the Web site at:
.

A big factor in the competition, of course, is the weather. The
teams had to prepare for the competition knowing that record highs
for this time of year in the nation's capital have reached the
mid-90s, and record lows have descended into the mid-30s. But at
press time on Tuesday, the temperature forecast is favorable, with
predicted highs in the 70s and lows in the 50s or 60s. The outlook
for sunshine, however, is less favorable, with showers expected on
Thursday and continuing into the weekend. See the Weather Channel
forecast at: .

The weekend weather forecast may deteriorate, since at present,
Tropical Storm Isadore is expected to return to hurricane force and
head north, likely bringing more rain to the region this weekend.
And another tropical storm, Lili, is expected to sweep through the
Caribbean heading northwest late this week, potentially bringing
more rain to the nation's capital next week. See the Weather
Channel's Tropical Storm Tracker at:
.


L.A. Expands Solar Program, Rolls Out 400 Electric Vehicles

Residents of Los Angeles and businesses located there now have even
more reasons to install solar power systems, thanks to an expansion
and extension of the solar program offered by the L.A. Department of
Water (LADWP). The utility's Board of Commissioners approved the
expansion last week. The new program offers significant new
opportunities for commercial and industrial customers of the
utility, since their maximum incentive payments have been doubled to
$2 million. And if they install a system greater than 30 kilowatts
in peak capacity, they can benefit from both the LADWP Solar Program
and a similar program offered by the Southern California Gas Company
(SoCalGas). Homeowners will also benefit from a boost in maximum
incentive payments, increasing from $50,000 to $60,000. The board
also extended the incentive payments through the end of 2003 while
allowing the Solar Program to continue until 2010. See the LADWP
press release at:
.

SoCa

[biofuels-biz] EREN Network News -- 09/25/02

[EREN]

=
EREN NETWORK NEWS -- September 25, 2002
A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).

=

Featuring:
*News and Events
   Weather Uncertain as Solar Decathlon Competition Gears Up
   L.A. Expands Solar Program, Rolls Out 400 Electric Vehicles
   Large Wind Plants Planned for the Dakotas and Maryland
   Sustainability Mandated for Washington State Government
   DOE to Fund up to $70 Million in Fuel Cell Research
   HUD, DOE, EPA to Work on Energy Efficient Affordable Housing
   "Renewable Energy Atlas of the West" Goes Online

*Site News
   Harvesting Clean Energy

*Energy Facts and Tips
   Updates on Recent "Energy Facts" Stories

*About this Newsletter


--
NEWS AND EVENTS
--
Weather Uncertain as Solar Decathlon Competition Gears Up

The competition phase of the Solar Decathlon begins on Thursday, and
the Solar Village -- consisting of the 14 competing solar houses --
is steadily taking shape on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
The university teams and their partially constructed homes all
arrived safely, despite treks from as far away as Texas, Missouri,
Colorado, and even Puerto Rico. And as the Solar Village takes
shape, so does the Solar Decathlon Web site, which now features
daily photos of the competition. During the competition, the site
will also feature team diaries, scoring results, and rankings. See
the Solar Decathlon Web site at:
.

The competition will be open to the public starting Thursday, but
for those of us unable to visit in person, the Web site now provides
images and descriptions of each entry. Through these new Web pages,
you can see the diversity of approaches used by the teams and gain
an appreciation for the creativity and innovation of the entries.
Although every team combines energy efficiency and solar
technologies in their homes, the teams are using a variety of
strategies to maintain comfortable interior temperatures, including
water-filled walls and columns for heat storage, radiant floor
heating, heat pumps, natural ventilation, and shutters and awnings.
For daylighting, some teams are using high-tech skylights and
translucent walls. The Texas A&M team even designed and built its
own appliances. And although it isn't part of the competition, many
teams took extra efforts to use sustainable materials in their
homes. See the "Follow the Teams" section of the Web site at:
.

A big factor in the competition, of course, is the weather. The
teams had to prepare for the competition knowing that record highs
for this time of year in the nation's capital have reached the
mid-90s, and record lows have descended into the mid-30s. But at
press time on Tuesday, the temperature forecast is favorable, with
predicted highs in the 70s and lows in the 50s or 60s. The outlook
for sunshine, however, is less favorable, with showers expected on
Thursday and continuing into the weekend. See the Weather Channel
forecast at: .

The weekend weather forecast may deteriorate, since at present,
Tropical Storm Isadore is expected to return to hurricane force and
head north, likely bringing more rain to the region this weekend.
And another tropical storm, Lili, is expected to sweep through the
Caribbean heading northwest late this week, potentially bringing
more rain to the nation's capital next week. See the Weather
Channel's Tropical Storm Tracker at:
.


L.A. Expands Solar Program, Rolls Out 400 Electric Vehicles

Residents of Los Angeles and businesses located there now have even
more reasons to install solar power systems, thanks to an expansion
and extension of the solar program offered by the L.A. Department of
Water (LADWP). The utility's Board of Commissioners approved the
expansion last week. The new program offers significant new
opportunities for commercial and industrial customers of the
utility, since their maximum incentive payments have been doubled to
$2 million. And if they install a system greater than 30 kilowatts
in peak capacity, they can benefit from both the LADWP Solar Program
and a similar program offered by the Southern California Gas Company
(SoCalGas). Homeowners will also benefit from a boost in maximum
incentive payments, increasing from $50,000 to $60,000. The board
also extended the incentive payments through the end of 2003 while
allowing the Solar Program to continue until 2010. See the LADWP
press release at:
.

SoCa

Re: [biofuel] upcoming biodiesel events in Santa Rosa CA

[rmcphe8888]

NATIONAL BIODIESEL BOARD
3337A Emerald Ln.
P O Box 104898
Jefferson City, MO  65110-4898
(573) 635-3893 phone  
(800) 841-5849
(573) 635-7913 fax
www.biodiesel.org

NEWS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE   

Contacts: Ted Brown/T.W. Brown Oil
(805) 339-2355
 Jenna Higgins/National Biodiesel Board
(573) 694-5214
Kathy Kane/Gold Mountain Entertainment
(323)-850-5660
September 23, 2002

Bonnie Raitt Fuels Up with Cleaner Burning Biodiesel in LA "Green Highway" 
tour puts American fuels in the spotlight
 
LOS ANGELES - Musician Bonnie Raitt is doing more for America than 
entertaining her fans on her nationwide tour currently underway - she's 
protecting the environment by using an alternative fuel called biodiesel.   
She is the first U.S. entertainer to adopt cleaner burning American-made 
biodiesel for use on tour.  

Raitt's crew filled up with BioLowNox-202 Premium biodiesel donated by West 
Central Soy (www.westcentralsoy.com) and T.W. Brown Oil Company today before 
her second performance at the Greek Theater.  T.W. Brown Oil Company is the 
local fuel distributor carrying BioLowNox-202 Premium biodiesel and has a 
public pump selling BioLowNox-202 Premium biodiesel at 1457 Fleet Ave. in 
Ventura.  

Dubbed the Green Highway Tour, the Grammy-winning artist with hits such as 
"Something to Talk About" is traveling coast-to-coast performing at major 
venues while raising awareness about alternative fuels.  

"It's no accident that we're in danger of losing both our ecological and our 
economic well-being at the same time," explains Raitt, who created the Green 
Highway concept along with colleagues Kathy Kane and Harvey Wasserman. "I 
feel too many government and corporate policies are inseparably shortsighted 
and we've created Green Highway to demonstrate that working in harmony with 
nature can offer real solutions for preserving both our planet and our 
prosperity."

BioLowNox-202 Premium biodiesel fits with Raitt's Green Highway Tour because 
it reduces emissions that are harmful to the environment as well as humans.  
BoiLowNox-202 Premium biodiesel is a domestically produced fuel made from 
only the highest-grade soybean oil and BLN-202.  BLN-202 reduces nitrous 
oxides (the main contributor to smog) and increases miles per gallon making 
BioLowNox-202 more economical than other fuels.  BLN-202 is supplied by 
Combustion Technologies (West) LLC that can be contacted at 
www.DipetaneUSA.com, or 800-993-6370.  Biodiesel can be used in any diesel 
engine with few or no modifications.  Although biodiesel contains no 
petroleum, it can be blended with diesel at any level or used in its pure 
form.  

The Raitt tour is powered by a combination of biodiesel, solar energy, and w
ind and hybrid technology.  The tour sets up exhibits on alternative energy 
at each venue and hands out information to concert goers.  Companies donating 
biodiesel to Raitt include West Central Soy, Biodiesel Industries, Griffin 
Industries, Stepan Company and World Energy, all members of the National 
Biodiesel Board (NBB), which is coordinating the tour's use of the fuel.  

"I think it's wonderful that Bonnie Raitt is leading by example in using a 
farm-grown fuel that decreases emissions and dependence on foreign oil," said 
Bob Metz, president of the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) and a South Dakota 
soybean farmer.  "Biodiesel is beginning to enjoy commercial success as one 
of the fastest growing alternative fuels available, and hopefully Bonnie's 
use of it will raise the visibility of the fuel and encourage others to use 
it."

Biodiesel is available nationwide.  More than 200 U.S. fleets currently use 
the fuel commercially, and it is also becoming increasingly available at 
public pumps and marinas.  Biodiesel performs comparably to diesel fuel, with 
similar cetane and BTU content.  It is the only alternative fuel to have 
completed the rigorous Health Effects testing requirements of the Clean Air 
Act.  The results, submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency in 2000, 
show biodiesel is biodegradable, virtually non-toxic and free of sulfur.  
Emissions it reduces include particulate matter, unburned hydrocarbons, 
carbon monoxide and sulfates.  B100 also reduces lifecycle carbon dioxide by 
78% compared to petroleum diesel according to Department of Energy research.

Readers can learn more about Bonnie Raitt's Green Highway Tour by visiting 
www.greenhighway.net.  To learn more about biodiesel, visit the NBB Web site 
at www.biodiesel.org.  The National Biodiesel Board is funded in part by the 
United Soybean Board and state soybean board check off programs.
# # #


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general

[Grahams]

At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new home.
>http://www.warmboard.com/
>Joe.

Looks cool, I installed our radiant floor system. One thing that I would 
like about putting the PEX under a wood floor is the ability to easily 
access it in the event of a problem.  While hopefully this PEX will last as 
a many years as it is currently touted to last, it has truly not withstood 
the test of time. In addition, things like clogging due to hard water 
deposits are not really discussed much either.
On one of my many trips to the building dept, during this construction, I 
met a man there looking for someone who could come repair his radiant floor 
system.  2/3 was not in use, had developed leaks and had to be shut 
off.  He could find no one interested in looking at this job. I could not 
really think of a way to help him, he had installed Italian marble tile 
over the concrete. Removing this, hunting for a leak, (what if the copper 
degrades in another spot), And then trying to put it back together sounded 
rather impossible to me.

One thing I learned from having this, is the heating effect is much more 
limited than I thought it would be- meaning there are "strips" of heat. It 
is not like walking on a sun warmed rock, the strips are warm the other 
part is cold. Thinking that the concrete would absorb and radiate the heat, 
I didn't worry too much about how deep the PEX was installed in the 
concrete. We zip tied them to the rebar and wire. Supposedly the wire is 
pulled up during the pour, reality looked a bit different to me as they 
rushed to pour and spread all the concrete.  We chose the most efficient 
propane water heater I could find,  a Polaris- and paid a lot for it. But 
it has resulted in bills that are very low compared to what would be 
expected from a house of this size. Of course I combined this with a huge 
amount of insulation- Double or more the recommended R-values for our area, 
walls too.  Some of the saving may result in the fact that we can and do 
only operate some of the zones. We have found no need to turn on the middle 
zones or the storage area zone. (I put all closet and "thing" storage 
together in the house for this reason, rather than paying to condition 
space where laundry, food and other "junk" lives.)  If air conditioning is 
a necessity in your climate, I think that in floor radiant heat  becomes a 
luxury item. An air handler system is still needed to move the ac, unless 
you go with individual window units-(zones for each room!), but I am not 
sure about the energy consumption of individual units.  If you are 
using  solar or your own wood and therefore have access to a "free" hot 
water producer, it might make more economic sense.  Personally I just hate 
forced air heat, and radiators were too expensive and too hard to find. 
(new thought- What if you "made your own radiator" out of the PEX ? 
Wouldn't heat a room as evenly, but it may have some advantages, needs to 
be tested.)

Looking back, I think a better system would place the PEX in some sort of 
accessible site- a baseboard channel or along the floor joist, with 
insulation underneath just as we did the concrete,  (perhaps with a  layer 
of reflective mylar on top since there will be a nice air space in 
there).  I would attach them to the same side of all the joists and take a 
few pictures to remind me of the positioning should I need to get to them 
sometime.  (Already our shower has needed repair and we "hoped" for the 
best as the floor was chiseled away.)  By the way, in looking for a ceiling 
material that wasn't drywall, I finally decided to use 5v metal- the same 
stuff that is used to roof sheds and barns, etc. We like a "techy" look 
anyway. Whether or not the reflective properties of this ceiling are 
helping deflect heat back down into the room is unknown. But is was easy to 
install, required no extra steps- taping, sanding, painting, and looks 
unusual. Wish I had used it in the bedrooms too.
Caroline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

[Hakan Falk]

I checked it and if you read the following link first, you will understand 
my comments later.

http://floorcontrol.energy.saving.nu/

I like it, but the advantages and disadvantages that they are referring to 
can be argued and depends on other circumstances, like

What is the heating system?
What is the control system?

It is not necessarily an advantage that it is fast, it depends on if you 
need or want to use the structure as energy storage.

The advantages described in comparison with concrete, can equally be 
disadvantages. Depending of what you want to do. I do like the philosophy 
and the possibility to easy install it in existing constructions. I tried 
to find out how much height it needs, but could not see this. The choice of 
which floor heating system to use in a new house, would be more dependent 
on economical circumstances and what floor surface you want.

Aluminium is used in heated wooden floor for distribution of the heat over 
the surface. It works like a reversed solar panel. Since the floor is the 
radiator, the aluminium will not really be used in the way I talk about 
earlier.

In heated concrete floors, you do not need the aluminium.

My opinion is that heated floors are energy efficient and energy flexible, 
since it is radiant with low temperature over large surface. Flexible, 
because it can be combined with many energy sources and systems that in 
them self are energy efficient. For use with heat pumps or solar, which are 
low temperature energy system, it is ideal.

Hakan


At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:





>Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>
>To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>cc:
>Subject:Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general
>
>Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new home.
>http://www.warmboard.com/
>Joe.
>
>This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective
>with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer
>the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could
>go from its potential emission factor of less than  0.1 to 0.4+, but
>it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9
>as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint,
>
>http://www.ips-innovations.com/Low-e_Paints/low-e_paints.html
>(the patent holders site)
>http://www.radiancecomfort.com/
>(licensee in US)
>
>This paint inside will give you a 15 to 20% energy saving, dependent
>on if you use warm air or radiators as heating system. It works in
>two ways, one is that it blocks losses from the heating system and
>the other is that it reduces the body's ability to use radiation as
>cooling method with following possible lowering of room temperature.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?

[rpg]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?


> Pardon me, but this below is crap, is it not? It's the fatty acid
> portion that's saturated or unsaturated, not the glycerine portion.
> Or could this be the result of poor processing and an incomplete
> reaction?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Keith
>
>
> >Just as important as the amount of FFA's is what the oil actually is
> >made from.  If the oil is normally solid at room temp such as tallow,
> >the glycerine will go solid much quicker than glycerine from oil that
> >is normally liquid at room temp such as canola.
> >
> >Even if it is new oil in both cases.
>

Keith
My experience with a variety of feedstocks bears out the above statement.
Just made some BD from used tallow which titrated at 2ml 1% NaOH. Low
acidity and the glycerine still set solid by the next day.
A mixture of the same tallow plus soy oil plus hydrogenated vegetable oil
gave glycerine which was liquid the next day .
The saturation would as you say be related to the fatty acid portion of the
molecule. The tendency to solidify could have something to do with the
increased chain length of the tallow giving rise to higher melting point
byproduct contaminants in the glycerine. But this is only a guess.
As Todd posted high FFA WVO/WAF  need a higher level of NaOH to neutralise
them resulting in increased soap levels.
A comparison of glycerines from both the acid/base method and the single
stage base method (from same High FFA feedstock) would indicate whether the
FFA neutralisation by NaOH led to solidification of the glycerine.

Regards,  Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject:Re: [biofuel] Re: Energy Efficiency and "Stuff" in general

Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new home.
http://www.warmboard.com/
Joe.

This as many things are relative, of course it will be less effective
with dirt or oxidation on it. This because the surface is no longer
the surface, it is the dirt. Mixed with a material aluminium could
go from its potential emission factor of less than  0.1 to 0.4+, but
it is still very much more efficient that most materials that have 0.9
as emission factor. One example is the reflective paint,

http://www.ips-innovations.com/Low-e_Paints/low-e_paints.html
(the patent holders site)
http://www.radiancecomfort.com/
(licensee in US)

This paint inside will give you a 15 to 20% energy saving, dependent
on if you use warm air or radiators as heating system. It works in
two ways, one is that it blocks losses from the heating system and
the other is that it reduces the body's ability to use radiation as
cooling method with following possible lowering of room temperature.







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Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?

[Michael Allen]

Hi Todd,

You could perhaps have added that soaps made from
saturated fats such as stearin are harder than those
made from unsaturated fats such as olein.

As a consequence, impure glycerol which contains
stearin-based soaps (coconut, tallow etc.) should be 
more solid than a glycerol which contains olein-based
soaps. (Provided of course that they are similar in
concentration, dispersion etc. etc. etc.)

Regards


Michael Allen
Thailand

 
--- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Crude glycerin does not solidify at room
> temperature. It's the
> soaps combined with the glycerin that give cause for
> any type of
> solidification. I suppose that technically glycerin
> with a higher
> solidified soap fraction, such as waste oils from
> animal fats, is
> indeed "crude." But in such cases the soap volume is
> generally
> higher than the glycerin volume, which would mean
> that calling it
> crude glycerin would be incorrect. Technically it
> should be named
> after its greatest fraction - soap.
> 
> When attempting to find a buyer for the glycerin,
> most won't
> accept it until the soap stock has been removed.
> They can contend
> with the water, alcohol and general discoloration.
> But they
> cannot as a general rule contend with crude soap
> "contaminated"
> with glycerin.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 9:02 PM
> Subject: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid
> glycerine?
> 
> 
> > Pardon me, but this below is crap, is it not? It's
> the fatty
> acid
> > portion that's saturated or unsaturated, not the
> glycerine
> portion.
> > Or could this be the result of poor processing and
> an
> incomplete
> > reaction?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > >Just as important as the amount of FFA's is what
> the oil
> actually is
> > >made from.  If the oil is normally solid at room
> temp such as
> tallow,
> > >the glycerine will go solid much quicker than
> glycerine from
> oil that
> > >is normally liquid at room temp such as canola.
> > >
> > >Even if it is new oil in both cases.
> >
> >
> >  Yahoo! Groups
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> >
>
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Re: [biofuel] Using Alcohol for fuel - 2

[Bryan Fullerton]

LOL no I think you are confused. Gasoline is "thicker" then alcohol I
believe. In reality the flowability in this case has nothing to do with
needing to enlarge the jets. It is simply a matter of needing more fuel for
the given amount of air. In rereading my response below I can see that I did
not explain fully enough the process as I understand it to be. I have played
around with both substances for some time. In fact I hate to admit this in
this particular group but where I live to license a vehicle one has to pass
an emmissions test. Now my first step and my recomendation to everyone is to
make sure their Oxygen sensor is working properly. These do degrade over
time and the onboard computer uses information from this sensor to directly
adjust the fuel mixture of most 80's and newer cars. Personally I think this
O2 sensor is the reason many cars dont pass. There are numerous other
sensors, temp sensors etc, that all need checked but sometimes an engine is
just wore out enough that it wont pass no matter what and you are supposed
to go get a paper from a "certified" emmissions specialist claiming you
spent x amount of dollars and it cant be fixed and with this "waiver' you
can then go ahead and get the vehicle licensed. or if you are a poor boy
mechanic like me and your "backup" vehicle falls in this category you can
drain your tank to 2 gallons of good gasoline and add 2 gallons of METHANOL.
Most emmisions are caused by a rich mixture and whether this is because of a
low compression condition or what not, Alcohol makes it run leaner. Why?
because I did not change the jets. Besides Methanol burns very clean anyway.
Guess what? Never has a car failed to pass with this setup. it is a last
resort for sure but if you need a car and dont have a couple hundred extra
bucks to pay a guy to tell you what you already know-well it works.

My daily driver is a diesel that for some reason smells alot like a propane
forktruck.. LOL I have no idea why but when it is hot and idling that is
what the exhaust smells like.. With biodiesel it smells like a frenchfry
factory.. Hope that helps explain the lean properties of Alcohol..


--Bryan



- Original Message -
From: "Terry Wilhelm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using Alcohol for fuel - 2


>
> Ok Bryan, lets try thicker then gasoline.  Since alcohol is thicker it
needs a bigger hole to get through.
> Regards,
>  Terry D. Wilhelm
>  The Revenoor Co. INC
>  www.revenoor.com
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Bryan Fullerton wrote:You mean LESS dense. Less density in this case
means more volume is needed.
> This is why carb jets need drilled out.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Terry Wilhelm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using Alcohol for fuel - 1
>
>
> >



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