Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

This is a point that is going to get more and more attention, and a  
valuable marketing approach for those making biodiesel from plant oils  
that are produced in as sustainable a fashion as possible. I think we  
will most definitely see product differentiation of biodiesel based on  
feedstock over time.

Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca


On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 10:07 AM, James Slayden wrote:

> actually the conversion of aniaml fats following slaughter does disgust
> me.  Probably because I am a veggie.  =)
>
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote:
>
>> why is converting manure to methane gas gross? We used to do it my
>> farming
>> days. It's healthier than spreading the liquid stuff on the fields.  
>> You
>> spread the dry stuff leftover and plow it under for fertilizer.
>>
>>
>> Steve Spence
>> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter
>> & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology:
>> http://www.green-trust.org
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "James Slayden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "biofuels-biz" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel
>>
>>
>>> That's just gross.  :(  sustainable my arse.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote:
>>>


 Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel
 By REUTERS


 HICAGO, Feb. 21 (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods Inc., the pork  
 producer,
 said today that it would build a $20 million site in Utah that would
>> use
 waste from 500,000 hogs to make biodiesel, a renewable fuel for
>> vehicles.

 Biodiesel can be made from any fat including vegetable oil and used
 cooking oil. About 15 million gallons were used in the United States
>> last
 year.

 Smithfield said it would be the major partner in BEST BioFuel, a
 partnership that will build the plant at Smithfield-owned swine
 production sites near Milford, Utah.

 "Livestock waste can be a source of clean, renewable vehicle fuel,"
>> said
 Robert F. Urell, a Smithfield senior vice president.

 Construction is scheduled to start in April on the new site, pending
 final approval of a conditional use permit and a permit from the  
 Utah
 Department of Environmental Quality.

 Smithfield's Utah swine operation produces about one million market
>> hogs
 a year, and the biodiesel project will use the waste from about half
>> of
 those hogs, the company said.



 Steve Spence
 Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter
 & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology:
 http://www.green-trust.org
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 Y

[biofuels-biz] Tony Blair White Paper on Global Warming and Renewable Energy

[murdoch]

This:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/whitepaper/index.shtml
seems to lead to this:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/whitepaper/ourenergyfuture.pdf

which may actually be "the" White Paper under discussion in the
following stories and others.

I haven't had time to read it.  I've read through a few stories and it
has continually struck me that Mr. Blair and his team seem very
focused on building centralized renewable electricity generation, but
do not seem to be very focused on alternative fuels for vehicles, nor
am I sure where they stand on the contributions that could be made
from allowing homeowners to generate their own power, such as through
aggressive net-metering programs for wind (and other forms of) power.
There seems to be no explicit mention at all in Mr. Blair's statements
of possibilities for Electric or Hybrid vehicles, other alt-fuels for
cars, use of biomass for car or other fuel, etc.

I have seen Mr. Blair for awhile as relatively enlightened on the
issue of the importance of renewable energy efforts, but I've also
come to see him as fighting the fight with one hand inadvertently tied
behind his back, as his team is not making him aware of all possible
technologies and political science innovations which could aid the
effort.  Maybe people like all of us can help by making them more
aware that their focus seems to be on some of the right path, but they
may have more going for them than they realize.  The choice is not
just between nuclear power vs. waves-solar-wind as the nuclear
proponents seem to be dead-set on portraying the choice.

For example, Britain became somewhat notorious last year as home to a
tax-collector shut-down of some citizens' efforts to use biofuels in
their vehicles (for one thing, it was lessening collection of road
taxes a legitimate concern if you need roads built to drive).  I'm
sure if Mr. Blair's team were more aware of this, they could get to
work designing a solution, so that use of biofuels was encouraged,
rather than discouraged and so that road taxes were still sufficiently
collected.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20030225/wl_oneworld/1032_1046175690

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/page.cfm?objectid=12680304&method=full&siteid=50082

http://www.e4engineering.com/item.asp?id=48001

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[biofuels-biz] Blair/Bush/Kyoto

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

Risk to environment poses same dangers as terror, warns Blair

Paul Brown, environment correspondent
Tuesday   February  25, 2003
The Guardian

The destruction of the environment and global warming are as great a 
threat to world peace as terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, the 
prime minister said yesterday.

In a speech which linked terrorism to global inequalities, Tony Blair 
took a sideswipe at his ally George Bush for tackling one and not the 
other. "There can be no lasting peace while there is appalling 
injustice and poverty," he said.

"Look around the world today, and it has to be said the quality of 
leadership on sustainable development elsewhere falls a little short of 
inspirational, especially in some of the world's most powerful nations.

"We can't allow ourselves to be thwarted by this sort of blind, 
business-as-usual bigotry."

There was a danger of polarity between two worlds, he told an audience 
of environmental pressure groups and quangos in London. Global poverty, 
deteriorating relations between the Muslim world and the west, plus 
environmental degradation, were as devastating in their potential 
impact as terrorism and weapons of mass destruction - some more so, he 
said.

The issues divided left from right, north from south, the US and its 
allies from the rest.

The only answer was to accept that these issues had to be considered 
alongside the issues of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction if 
the world's security and prosperity were to be guaranteed.

There will be no genuine security if the planet is ravaged by climate 
change, Mr Blair said, announcing an initiative to cut the UK's 
greenhouse house gas emissions by 60% by 2050.

Mr Blair also wrote to the Greek prime minister, Costas Simitis, in his 
capacity as president of the European council to get a 60% target 
adopted for Europe. Under the Kyoto agreement, EU members are committed 
to an 8% reduction by 2010, but the Blair plan is to get the whole of 
Europe, including the new accession states, agreeing to a 60% cut by 
2050.

The speech was billed as the Blair vision for a sustainable world, in 
which he took in the need for equality in world trade, eradication of 
poverty and debt, and preventing environmental degradation. It was made 
on the same day that the government launched its long awaited energy 
white paper, and published its annual statistics on quality of life in 
Britain.

Mr Blair announced an extra £70m for Carbon Trust, a body he set up two 
years ago to promote new technologies such as fuel cells, wave power, 
solar power and combined heat and   power plants. The government aimed 
to increase the existing target of 10% renewables by 2010 to 20% by 
2020. Nuclear power was given the cold shoulder, the industry left to 
run down as the old stations reached the end of their lives.

Jonathon Porritt, the chairman of the government's sustainable 
development commission, told the prime minister that his words were 
laudable. However, the gap between what was needed to promote 
sustainable development and what was happening was still growing.

Mr Blair conceded that Britain was "not meeting the scale of the 
challenge".

"We have not been bold enough... real investment now to tackle the 
causes of poverty and degradation could be such a strong signal of our 
determination to pursue justice in an evenhanded way.

"We need to combine greater economic development with better 
environmental impact, bringing the environment, economic development 
and social justice together.

"I believe our approach offers the best hope for ... building a more 
prosperous, just, and stable world. That is the real task of 
statesmanship today. And the time-scale is urgent," he said.

The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and 
Clarifications column, Wednesday February 26 2003

Two paragraphs were wrongly attributed to Tony Blair in this report. 
The passage, beginning "Look around the world today ..." and ending 
"blind, business-as-usual bigotry", was, in fact quoting the comments 
of Jonathon Porritt, the chairman of the government's sustainable 
development commission.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/story/0,9061,902505,00.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuels-biz] New file uploaded

[Randy Harrison]

Dave,

I encountered the same problem.






>From: David Preskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuels-biz] New file uploaded
>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:08:46 +
>
>How do you get to the file uploads? I get to the Yahoo site , it recognises
>my server, greets me with my user name and when I put in my password (yes,
>I've checked it and had it confirmed by Yahoo) I get an invalid password
>message.
>What am I doing wrong?
>Dave
>
>biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the biofuels-biz
> > group.
> >
> >   File: /Freeze points
> >   Uploaded by : homestead01096 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >   Description : Biofuels this winter
> >
> > You can access this file at the URL
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/files/Freeze%20points
> >
> > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
> >
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > homestead01096 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
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> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>--
>David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>"We can get fuel from fruit, from the sumac by the roadside, or from
>apples, weeds, saw dust; almost anything. There is enough alcohol in
>one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to cultivate that field for a
>hundred years. And it remains for someone to find how this fuel can
>be produced commercially -- better fuel at a better price than we now
>know."  -Henry Ford-
>
>University of Wales
>BioComposites Centre
>Deiniol Road
>Bangor
>Gwynedd
>LL57 2UW
>
>http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk
>
>Tel +44 (0)1248-370588
>Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594
>
>


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Re: Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel

[Thor Skov]

Mark,

100% agree with you.  It's better that Smithfield,
IBP, Tyson, et al do something with their waste that
helps to close the loop.  In the short to medium term
it's a great step.  

I was just responding to something someone else wrote
about sustainability.  Since sustainability implies
*infinity*, and industrial ag is ultimately not
sustainable, biodiesel from industrial hog waste is
not either.  But I'm talking long-term.  For the
present, companies need to get started on that road,
and this may be an eye-opening move for a business
model predicated on "single-crop, single-product
production to the exclusion of anything else."  

Cradle to cradle, baby.

thor

Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:45:39 -0800
   From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Re: Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into
Fuel

Having lived in north Carolina when the large-scale
hog farming hog waste water pollution issue came up
there a few years ago, I'm really happy to see this
small step happening, even if it doesn't do much for
the sustainability of the actual industrial animal
husbandry in the first place. There is so much waste
like this- many individuals point it out but companies
involved rarely tap into creative ways of dealing with
it. 
-Huge amounts of potential energy in animal waste is
literally going down the drain, crop wastes getting
burned and causing air pollution here, for instance,
etc- yet the industries producing the stuff don't do 
anything useful with it, polluting and focusing on
single-crop, single-product production to the
exclusion of anything else. Not that I like the idea 
of Smithfield 'diversifying' necessarily (they are a
large-scale polluter nationwide, and there are many
other things wrong with industrial factory farming-
for instance the Big Soy industry we love to hate
comes about due to the demand for soy animal feed in
the beef industry, not due to any concerns with what's
the best use of cropland or the best ways to produce
human food).

But in NC at least, no one's getting away from the
bacon diet anytime soon, and at least keeping the
byproducts of that industry out of our water 
there (there was such a huge, insolvable problem, and
such a public outcry there which did so little
considering the huge influence producers like 
smithfield have on state politics) is a positive step.
i hope it's real, and not just some greenwash
short-term pr thing. Then again, the beauty of
renewable energy is that it actually affects the
bottom line- so 
corporations that take on energy production might
stick with it once the infrastructure is in place...
??
mark



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[jfbusby]

Didn't get in on the start of this.But that has never stopped me before so
here goes.Is your "lye" a solution of  lye in water or lye in methanol or
is it a the solid. If you buy the lye as a solution the density at some
specified temperature will be on the label. If you divide the mass you need
in your prep by the density stated on the label  you will have the volume
you need to add,  How precise are the measurement your using. Sounds like
you might be measuring on a scale of gallons rather than milliliters.
John


- Original Message -
From: "Mark Foltarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales


> Unless I made a wrong turn on a calculation, it looks as if water weighs
1.0233
> gms / CC. Yes, thats absolutely pure deionized water.
>
> Suppose you made a balance with two graduated containers and a balance
beam.
> Something about coat hangers and Wal Mart kitchen supplies come to mind.
>
> You could then add a specific amount of water to one container for a
specific
> weight. Than add the lye to the other container  until the system comes
back
> into balance.
>
> Similarly, you could borrow a scale to calibrate your own little weights -
1gm,
> 10gm, 50gm etc. Make a few of each. These could be used in place of liquid
> water.
>
> ~~
> Nahh just save up some bread and buy a digital designer scale at
the
> William Sonoma. Just kidding! Yikes!
> ~~
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --- "girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have
> > bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes
> > takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple
> > balance beam as well as scale there...
> > flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn shops.
> > mark
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > __
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
> __
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>
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Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning that really works with temps as low as 80C (176F)

[csakima]

If I recall, most of the Sterlings I  hear about use a working gas of
Helium.

Curtis

Get your free newsletter at
http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL


- Original Message -
From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 James,

If you can show me how the sterling will run from 80 degree Celsius solar
heated warm water, I think we have an absolute winner.  If then the
compressor would work with a gas that is not dangerous or contribute to
Global warming. A fantastic solution that definitely have my support.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[Mark Foltarz]

Unless I made a wrong turn on a calculation, it looks as if water weighs 1.0233
gms / CC. Yes, thats absolutely pure deionized water.

Suppose you made a balance with two graduated containers and a balance beam.
Something about coat hangers and Wal Mart kitchen supplies come to mind. 

You could then add a specific amount of water to one container for a specific
weight. Than add the lye to the other container  until the system comes back
into balance.

Similarly, you could borrow a scale to calibrate your own little weights - 1gm,
10gm, 50gm etc. Make a few of each. These could be used in place of liquid
water.

~~
Nahh just save up some bread and buy a digital designer scale at  the
William Sonoma. Just kidding! Yikes!
~~

Mark



--- "girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have 
> bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes 
> takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple 
> balance beam as well as scale there...
> flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn shops. 
> mark
>   
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 
> 


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RE: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William ThomasÊ

[Doug Allbright]

Bummer I really want that info

-Original Message-
From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:38 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas 


Hey Doug,

You've amused...I mean assumed wrongly.

I just care to have a little supportive reference to studies or at least be
informed of the principal making the assertion - not the off-hand "factual
dismissals" correlating to an "8 ounce glass of fruit juice."

Don't suppose you know of anyone chugging 18 glasses of tomato or orange
juice each day, day in and day out do you? (12 x12 = 18 x 8) ?

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: "Doug Allbright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas


> Hey Todd
>
> You being a journalist I would bet you could share some links  or
documentation that support your argument about aspartame. could you share
them with us.
>
> Thanks
> Doug
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:59 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas
>
>
> > I have too little time to deal with factual information, than to spend
> time reading misinformation.
> >
> > Motie
>
> If a person reads only what is acceptable to their own bias, then they are
> already fertile ground for, if not already victim of, mis- and
> dis-information - perfectly evidenced by your formation of an opinion
based
> upon what you didn't read.
>
> Too bad, the last paragraphs even had some first-generation value to
> homebrewers who use methanol.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> Part of what you didn't read.
>
> "Would you drink 6 to 12 cans of formaldehyde a day? It turns out that
> methanol in Aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the tissues. As
Guildford
> wrote to USN Captain Eleanor Marino, Physician to the President (Feb. 21,
> 2002): 10% of a 200mg can of diet soda is straight methanol wood alcohol!
> Methanol is such a gross cumulative poison, the EPA's limit for drinking
> water is 7.8 mg daily. For serious addicts like Bush, the methanol intake
> can exceed 32 times the EPA's recommended limit...
>
> Now the punch line: Clinical case studies shows that, among other
symptoms,
> Aspartame ingestion results in "mind fog", feeling "unreal", poor memory,
> confusion, anxiety, irritability, depression, mania, and slurred speech.
> [Neurology 1994]
>
> Alcohol-related brain damage is not helped by chugging formaldehyde. James
> Turner, consumer protection lawyer and author of The Chemical Feast
learned
> that an Oct. 1980 FDA inquiry found that the formaldehyde formed by
> Aspartame actually eats microscopic holes and triggers tumors in the
brain.
>
> That finding banned Aspartame from the food supply. But three months
later,
> Searle CEO Donald Rumsfeld told that pharma giant's sales staff he would
get
> Aspartame approved pronto. The next month, the FDA commissioner was
replaced
> by Dr. Arthur Hayes. In Nov. 1983 the FDA approved aspartame for soft
> drinks. Under fire for accepting corporate bribes, Hayes went to work for
> Searle's public-relations firm. Searle lawyer Robert Shapiro coined the
name
> NutraSweet. Monsanto bought Searle. Rumsfeld received $12 million for his
> help. Shapiro now heads Monsanto.
>
> The same "revolving door" swings wide for arms makers and the oil mafia.
The
> Big Question is: Why hasn't Dick warned George that the diet drinks he's
> swilling are eating his brain and making him crazy?
>
> Crazy? Am I calling the President-Select of the Excited States crazy? Not
> me. As a journalist, I can only point out that published medical evidence
> goes frighteningly far in explaining GW's behavior. For certain, this good
> ol' boy should go in for a brain scan before being allowed to command more
> firepower than the next 11 nations combined. If George W. Bush is not
crazy
> -- he's sure acting like it."
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:39 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas
>
> [snip]
>
> > Hi Steve,
> > I didn't resppond earlier in an attempt to not contribute to the high
> > traffic volume of the list lately.
> > I didn't bother to read that whole article. It turned me off almost
> > instantly when he mentioned that Bush is 'unelected'.
> > I figured that the rest of the article was likely to be similar
> > Drivel.
> > I have too little time to deal with factual information, than to
> > spend time reading misinformation.
> >
> > Motie
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
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Re: [biofuel] Retrieving the gold...

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

TALK to the owner and have them put it out for you, and pick up, 
weekly, in the containers they buy it in. Sealed, fresh as possible. 
That is the best way. And find some Canola oil.

Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca





On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 08:36 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

>> hello to all. Just joined and am setting up to make my
>> own fuel. I have a question. What kind of pump is best
>> for retrieving the used cooking oil from the
>> containers "out back" of the restaurant ?  I'm looking
>> at 12 volt vane pumps, gear pumps, engine powered
>> Trash pumps. WHAT are the rest of you using ??
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill in Az.
>>
>> =
>> Bill & Melley Kitchin
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> 602-999-7606
>
>
> Welcome, Bill
>
> Hope you get some good responses - I'd also appreciate some good
> advice on this, the methods we've used up to now have been less than
> ideal. Time to upgrade.
>
> Meanwhile, have a look at how Chuck Ranum does it:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Retrieving the gold...

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

We have one - very nice. made for gear oil. (heavier oils!!), 12/24V


Comes with strainer and flow control (filler) nozzle

Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 02:33 PM, girl_mark_fire 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pumping coldish WVo with a dc pump is one of the most complicated
> things I've found about this process. I just gave up and I use
> something plastic as a pitcher to scoop the stuff. more recently I've
> taken to using a 4 gallon bucket to do it (and have a bigger bucket
> to then put the dirty bucket into so as not to get oil all over my
> vehicle).
>
> here's what doens't work too well:
> the 12V pumps that SVOers commonly use are the 12V, $70 transfer
> pumps from Northern Tool (also sold by Greasel and greasecar and
> others I believe). These things come with a fuse- so you'd think,
> why, I can't burn up this pump, the fuse will blow. But I know many,
> many people (oh, about 5)  who have cooked the wiring of these things
> while the fuse sits there and does nothing (other than letting loads
> of electricity flow right on through where it makes a smoky mess of
> the other wiring). Northern can't even tell you much about these-
> they're made in China somewhere and northern.. well, never mind. Just
> don't try and get customer service from places like that.
>
>  anyway if you are using really nice oil that's liquid they're
> probably OK-ish, but I don't recommend them. (and in Arizona you
> won't have too much trouble with the liquid part like 70% of the year
> due to the temperatures)
>
> I have heard but did not experience myself that the cheap Simer Blue
> 12V utility pumps (thats the Pudl-Scooper deal from some Ace Hardware
> stores) can work OK but knowing Simer's reputation I wonder about
> this- they're cheap, and they're lightweight-looking.
>
> I'm experimenting with a 12V macerator toilet pump from a boat marine
> toilet, but it's not continuous-duty rated and I'm still
> experimenting... and some expensive bilge pumps would probably work
> too but I haven't tried it yet.
>
> anyway, that brings me to
>
> AC!
>
> There's much more of a choice in AC pumps- the motors are much
> heavier-duty, plus you have more of a choice in what's available.
>
> I use a Grainger (Teel brand actually) 'fryer filter' pump (a gear
> pump with an huge heavy 8-amp motor) that's been pretty bulletproof
> (we used it at the biodiesel coop for a year and it hasn't broken yet
> despite serious abuse).  it's pricey- $220, and it's heavy, but it's
> designed for moving hot WVO around. If you can get an arrangement
> with the restaurant to let you run an extension cord to the oil
> dumpster, an ac pump is the way to go. If you want to use an inverter
> I've found that many pumps are a pretty big draw...
>
> Remember that all pumps push better than they 'suck'- so use a short
> hose on the intake end and a long one on the outgoing end.
>
> A foot valve is a good addition to a cheap non-self-priming pump. It
> is a check valve with a strainer.
>
> But scooping the stuff works OK if you're not a completely messy
> person.
>
> Also drill-driven pumps are sometimes suggested. I';ve found them
> useful for biodiesel moving, but I've destroyed a lot of them using
> them to pump oil- the rubber impeller (?) gets gummed up, then
> quickly tears loose from the steel shaft. I haven't tried this for
> the more expensive ($25) rebuildable versions sold by West Marine and
> other boat catalogs- I've only used the $5 Craftsman/sears variety-
> great for moving biodiesel, poor for WVO.
>
> If you're a DIY'er , mating an engine oil sump pump to some kind of
> appropriate motor (maybe even a cordless drill for small amounts of
> oil pumped) should work really well- they're selfpriming up to a
> point, and are 'bulletproof' gear pumps. The one I got came from a
> Chevy 350 and it has a really difficult driver to adapt to a motor
> without welding or machine work, so I 'lucked out' - not sure what
> model engines to recommend asking for at the junkyard, but some of
> them come with a female hex type drive, or other simple ones to mate
> a motor to.
>
>
> good luck,
> mark
>
>
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If he was making his electricity with a small diesel the exhaust
> could
>> supply all his process heat.
>>
>> Kirk
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:37 AM
>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Retrieving the gold...
>>
>>
>>> hello to all. Just joined and am setting up to make my
>>> own fuel. I have a question. What kind of pump is best
>>> for retrieving the used cooking oil from the
>>> containers "out back" of the restaurant ?  I'm looking
>>> at 12 volt vane pumps, gear pumps, engine powered
>>> Trash pumps. WHAT are the rest of you using ??
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bill in Az.
>>>
>>> =
>>> Bill & Melley Kitchin
>>> [EMAIL PROTECT

[biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Mark, thanks! I completely forgot about this technique, and it's 
super useful for those not planning to make any quantities of fuel- 
like SVo'ers needing a small amount of lye/water reference tester for 
doing titration on oil to see how bad it is for instance. Asking 
people to shell out even $25 for a scale they'll only use once is 
painful.

At one of the first workshops I taught, my friend and I showed up 
separately at a campout and he figured out that he'd forgotten his 
scale and part of his other supplies (we'd sorta kinda planned doing 
a demo of biodiesel to identify the nerds among us so he did have the 
oil and lye). What to do? My friend was a first aid person, and using 
some supplies of his I built a scale- a straw with a string threaded 
through the exact middle for the balance, with a pair of small 
plastic medicine cups hanging on either end.  We had syringe bodies, 
and used one syringe to put a few milliliters of water in one end of 
the 'scale' and poured lye into the other till we had the amount that 
balanced the weight of the water in the other cup.

It was windy and I had to attach the'scale' to a rear view mirror of 
a car, and to make it work in the wind I got into the car, rolled up 
the windows and closed the doors, and the workshop participants 
crowded around and gawked while my friend narrated from the outdoors. 
I felt like a fish in an aquarium.


I remember that someone years ago suggested finding paper in a 
certain weight per ream, cutting little 1 cubic centimeter weights 
out of it, and doing what Foltarz suggests below.

mark


--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Foltarz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unless I made a wrong turn on a calculation, it looks as if water 
weighs 1.0233
> gms / CC. Yes, thats absolutely pure deionized water.
> 
> Suppose you made a balance with two graduated containers and a 
balance beam.
> Something about coat hangers and Wal Mart kitchen supplies come to 
mind. 
> 
> You could then add a specific amount of water to one container for 
a specific
> weight. Than add the lye to the other container  until the system 
comes back
> into balance.
> 
> Similarly, you could borrow a scale to calibrate your own little 
weights - 1gm,
> 10gm, 50gm etc. Make a few of each. These could be used in place of 
liquid
> water.
> 
> 
~~

> Nahh just save up some bread and buy a digital designer 
scale at  the
> William Sonoma. Just kidding! Yikes!
> 
~~

> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> --- "girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have 
> > bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It 
sometimes 
> > takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or 
triple 
> > balance beam as well as scale there...
> > flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn 
shops. 
> > mark
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> > > 
> > > Dan
> > > 
> > > __
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


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[biofuel] Two Biodiesel questions

[Doug Allbright]

Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Hakan Falk]

Dear Dom,

If you go to the link that explains my position you will find
that I do not suggest any ban on SUV. This type of vehicle
are useful or recreation for some people. I suggest,

1. That as much as possible these vehicles should be used
 in the environment that they designed for, instead of an
 environment that they are unsuitable for. It is an off road
 vehicle and it should be more of them in this environment
 and less of them in the on road environment.

2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
 necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
 they have a truck license or similar.

Because of that the above points are not in effect, many accident
with fatal outcome for the owners and innocent people are happening.
More than for other types of vehicles and many of them could be
avoided with my suggestions.

Hakan


At 09:20 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>That's probably one of the most lame answers I have heard in a very long
>time.  I can assure you that the person who was in the SUV does not agree.
>Railroad trains can kill SUVs and Yugos can kill pedestrians. Should we ban
>railroad trains and Yugos or SUVs and pedestrians?  We probably should ban
>cars below the size of an SUV because they are the most unsafe of vehicles
>when involved in a accident.
>
>Dom Amato
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:07 AM
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > At 09:03 AM 2/22/2003 +, you wrote:
> > >Can some one explain to me what all the fuss and prejudice is about
>SUV's?
> >
> > They kill.
> > http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/kazman.shtml
> > And search for SUV on the biofuel list, it is a very well debated issue,
> > with many expressed views.
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> >
> > >Most of them are only adornments, are we about to ban other forms of
>jewelry
> > >and trivia?
> >
> > Maybe it is the same, it is people that are prepared to kill for diamonds
> > and we do not think that it is acceptable behavior. I do not see anyone
> > wanting to ban SUV as a useful or fun OFF ROAD vehicle.
> >
> >
> > >My range rover regularly does 30 mp imperial gallon, yet my supposedly
> > >acceptable Volvo can only manage 19
> >
> > What Volvo do you have, a bus, truck or the military jeep (they call it
>the
> > puppy in Sweden)? I had several normal Volvo and never had one  who did 19
> > mp imperial gallon other than 25 years ago, when I was averaging around
>110
> > mph on autobahn in Germany. My impression is that the new range rovers are
> > almost the same as an old Volvo. Old range rovers was very thirsty as all
> > off road vehicles.
> >
> >
> > >Is the world mad or is it just some of the other nutters we get on the
>page.
> > >
> > >If you really want to save the world why not address the fundamental
>human
> > >population problem, or is this just a little bit too close to reality.
> > >
> > >Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "Mark Foltarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:19 AM
> > >Subject: RE: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe an SUV is defined by the frame on which it is built. This is
> > > > essentially a truck frame. Being classified as a truck, the SUV  also
> > >qualifies
> > > > for a tax deduction that was originally meant for famers and jobbers
> > >needing a
> > > > big vehicle to make a living.  Rest assured, the auto makers want this
>to
> > > > continue as incentive to buyers.
> > > >
> > > > The SUV as it has come to be known is a very profitable beast for the
> > > > automakers. If you have ever seen one in a salvage yard you might
>notice
> > >what
> > > > vaccuous pieces of luxo junk they actually are - merely pounds of
>molded
> > > > plastic and glass set an SUV apart from its ancestor the truck.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line for the auto maker is that they make scads of cash on
>the
> > >sale
> > > > of these monsters - they took a truck and gussied it up.
> > > >
> > > > Even though government mandates on anything goes against my grain, as
>long
> > >as
> > > > the  government takes money out of my wallet for emission tests on my
> > >little
> > > > car, I will always oppose promotion of the SUV.
> > > >
> > > > Also, one might be wise to realize that politicians who did not vote
>in
> > >support
> > > > of  or actively pursue an increase in the C.A.F.E. ( Corporate Average
> > >Fuel
> > > > Economy ) standards can not be trusted with anything at all - period.
>Who
> > >in
> > > > their right mind and with good consious can allow the production of
>8mpg
> > > > vehicles. Notice who of your state representatives did not do their
>job
> > >and let
> > > > them know.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't it amazing that in these days of science and wonder that they
>make a
> > >car
> > >

Re: [biofuel] Behind the Great Divide

[Hakan Falk]

Dom,

A majority of postings are about energy related questions. You managed
with something very rare. Girl_Mark that is one of the most knowledgeable
and that to 99% always share useful information, reacted on one of your
stupid (I very seldom use this kind of evaluations) and discriminating
postings. I did not think I would see that.

Hakan


At 09:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>I am new to this biofuels group but can't help wondering why so few people
>talk about biofuels?
>
>Dom Amato
>
>



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Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.

[Hakan Falk]

Dom,

A majority of postings are about energy related questions. You managed
with something very rare. Girl_Mark that is one of the most knowledgeable
and that to 99% always share useful information, reacted on one of your
stupid (I very seldom use this kind of evaluations) and discriminating
postings.

Hakan


At 10:16 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate?
>You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you
>are entitled to speak whatever you like.  This, however, is NOT the place
>for it.  It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is
>organized.  To the extent that you continue with this political
>self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group.

I suppose that you are talking about your self-indulgence and your
attitude seems to be damaging for mankind. We have an excellent
moderator for this group and why are you meddling in his job.


>Dom Amato



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[biofuel] Re: Behind the Great Divide

[girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Thank you for the compliment Hakan- 
I ignore a lot of political postings I disagree with here- my theory 
is that renewable energy appeals to people across all ends of the 
political spectrum- which is very unique. Though it sometimes it's 
really disturbing to see the disagreements, and in my case very 
disturbing to see the ignorance of some Americans. anyway the problem 
with dominick's post that 'set me off' was that I draw the line at 
someone from the US telling an international list composed of lots 
of 'Third World' people that they are destructive to the natural 
world whereas we are somehow 'less so'.
mark


--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Dom,
> 
> A majority of postings are about energy related questions. You 
managed
> with something very rare. Girl_Mark that is one of the most 
knowledgeable
> and that to 99% always share useful information, reacted on one of 
your
> stupid (I very seldom use this kind of evaluations) and 
discriminating
> postings. I did not think I would see that.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> At 09:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >I am new to this biofuels group but can't help wondering why so 
few people
> >talk about biofuels?
> >
> >Dom Amato
> >
> >


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[biofuel] quality of biodiesel

[Johnsson Tomas]

Hello All,
 
Thanks everyone for all the infomration sheared on the list. A lot has been
learned and will still be lernt when following the discussions going on. 
 
I have a small question concerning the quality of biodiesel. Do some one
have information of any laboratory, univeristy or other instance involved
(preferable in Europe as I am from Finland) in the analysing of biodiesel to
E DIN 51606 or DIN EN 14214 standard and to a some what affordable price?  
 
I am produicing BD from used veg oil, the quality of my biodiesel is OK and
I am using the biodiesel my self in the car and as heating fuel, meanwhile
in order to sell a part of the fuel it need to be quality checked and I need
to be able to prove that its according to the standards? How are the
commercial BD producers analysing their fuel in order to safegurad the
quality?   
 
Tomas
 
 

 


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Re: [biofuel] quality of biodiesel

[Hakan Falk]

Hi Tomas,

If you need to certify your BD, I think that you have to go to the
governmental testing institution. I do not remember the name of
it in Finland, but in Sweden it is Statens Provningsanstalt. Give
them a call and find out, if it is not them who is testing, they will
tell you where to go.

Hakan


At 01:43 PM 2/27/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>Thanks everyone for all the infomration sheared on the list. A lot has been
>learned and will still be lernt when following the discussions going on.
>
>I have a small question concerning the quality of biodiesel. Do some one
>have information of any laboratory, univeristy or other instance involved
>(preferable in Europe as I am from Finland) in the analysing of biodiesel to
>E DIN 51606 or DIN EN 14214 standard and to a some what affordable price?
>
>I am produicing BD from used veg oil, the quality of my biodiesel is OK and
>I am using the biodiesel my self in the car and as heating fuel, meanwhile
>in order to sell a part of the fuel it need to be quality checked and I need
>to be able to prove that its according to the standards? How are the
>commercial BD producers analysing their fuel in order to safegurad the
>quality?
>
>Tomas
>



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Re: [biofuel] Two Biodiesel questions

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

>snip<
Componet &CAS numberWeight% OSHA Hazard Category
ACETONE 0.2 - 2.6   Hazardous
67-64-1
METHANOL97.5 - 0  Hazardous
67-56-1

>I can only guess this means its 97.5 % methanol and not good enough to
make biodiesel with. Would >like your input on this.


Doug,
This should be fine for making BD. The other 2.5% is not water so will work
fine. Those percentages are by weight. Acetone (CH3COCH3) is not quite
twice as heavy as MeOH, so the volume of acetone in your mix is less than
the 2.5%. Go ahead and use it. But try and find a cheaper source of
methanol. $3.00 per gallon is outrageous.


>The next question is can I mixed SVO with regular diesel fuel ?

Sure, many people blend their fuels. It all depends on the engine and
ambient temperatures. I have run my 6.2L on many different blends. It even
ran fine on a 80/20 mix of WVO/gasoline in the summer months. A couple
seconds more of cranking time was what I noticed.
Blessings.  Joe :-)










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Re: [biofuel] (no subject)

[Domenick V. Amato]

You might consider one of the wax crystal inhibitors used as an additive for
diesel fuel.  It doesn't take much but they drop the "wax point" of diesel
fuels.  It should work for these fuels.

Dom Amato

- Original Message - 
From: "gumpon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: [biofuel] (no subject)


> Dear Keith
> I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin,
> crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than
> 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy  ( this might come from  some of
> the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear
> liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or
> suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester  to run the
> locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the
> ambient temperature droped especially during the night.
> Regards
> Gumpon
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Behind the Great Divide

[Domenick V. Amato]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

When I wrote that I was reading email from this group for the first time.  I
am a chemist who was, in the past, involved only marginally with the oil
business.  I want to become involved with biofuels because I see it as an
opportunity to do something that can be both creditable and profitable.  As
I scanned down the long list of emails with "biofuels" in the subject line,
all I seemed to see were pro and anti-war commentary and an occasional
harangue.

It does not matter to me what your political affiliation is or what your
opinion is any particular topic.  I have my own opinions.  What matters to
me in the opportunity to learn something and , perhaps, the opportunity to
share something I know in return.  I simply do not see the point of
lambasting someone's antiwar position or lambasting George Bush for
threatening war.  It accomplishes nothing in this arena.  However,
discussing the effect of war or the possibility of war on the price of oil
and, therefore, on the viability or development of biofuels is on-topic.

This group is one of a number of sources of information that I have begun to
use.  It is useful to me only if the value is worth the effort.   There have
been good discussions here so I will participate.  However, I will block
senders whom I feel are primarily political in an attempt to focus on
something that I may be able to control.  And I will be less likely to
offend them.

Dom Amato

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:00 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Behind the Great Divide


> Thank you for the compliment Hakan-
> I ignore a lot of political postings I disagree with here- my theory
> is that renewable energy appeals to people across all ends of the
> political spectrum- which is very unique. Though it sometimes it's
> really disturbing to see the disagreements, and in my case very
> disturbing to see the ignorance of some Americans. anyway the problem
> with dominick's post that 'set me off' was that I draw the line at
> someone from the US telling an international list composed of lots
> of 'Third World' people that they are destructive to the natural
> world whereas we are somehow 'less so'.
> mark
>
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Dom,
> >
> > A majority of postings are about energy related questions. You
> managed
> > with something very rare. Girl_Mark that is one of the most
> knowledgeable
> > and that to 99% always share useful information, reacted on one of
> your
> > stupid (I very seldom use this kind of evaluations) and
> discriminating
> > postings. I did not think I would see that.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 09:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > >I am new to this biofuels group but can't help wondering why so
> few people
> > >talk about biofuels?
> > >
> > >Dom Amato
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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>
>
>



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.

[Domenick V. Amato]

Yes.  According to Webster's it is " unsolicited usually commercial E-mail
sent to a large number of addresses ".

Dom


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:03 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the
RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.


> Also,
>
> do you know what spam really is (in terms of the internet and not
> hormel?)
>
> fred
>
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Say Dom,
> >
> > Did you bother to look at the entire thread?  Or are you the new
> self-
> > appointed Topic-Cop?
> >
> > fred
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Domenick V. Amato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is
> > appropriate?
> > > You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you
> have
> > and you
> > > are entitled to speak whatever you like.  This, however, is NOT
> the
> > place
> > > for it.  It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is
> > > organized.  To the extent that you continue with this political
> > > self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group.
> > >
> > > Dom Amato
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message - 
> > > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: 
> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking
> at
> > the
> > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > >
> > >
> > > > As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never
> > find one,
> > > > nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short
> of
> > breaking
> > > > Biofuel down into individual sub-sets.
> > > >
> > > > Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any
> > less "political," as
> > > > you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you
> > into the
> > > > field in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world
> > has a great
> > > > stake in how international administrations handle issues that
> > determine
> > > > control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that
> includes "war
> > and
> > > > rumours of war."
> > > >
> > > > Todd Swearingen
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Tim Owens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking
> > at the
> > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > To whom it may concern:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am leaving this "news group" because it is anything but a
> > news group
> > > > about
> > > > > biofuel.  I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it
> > takes too
> > > long
> > > > > to sort through the unrelated emails.  Does anyone know of a
> > good
> > > > discussion
> > > > > group where they stick to the subject matter and actually
> > discuss
> > > > producing
> > > > > biofuels and alternate energy sources.  If so please let me
> > know.  I
> > > would
> > > > > love to get involved.
> > > > >
> > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM
> > > > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was:
> > Looking at the
> > > > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > > From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was:
> > Looking at the
> > > > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more
> > > > > > > disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the
> > Iraqi army.
> > > > > > > I do no want to do any clear cut final military
> judgement,
> > but it is
> > > > > > > my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical
> nature.
> > They
> > > > > > > have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and
> are
> > > > > > > more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are not joking there.  I think the fact that North
> Korea
> > has been
> > > > for
> > > > > > the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to
> > > negotiate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation
> with
> > 80% of
> > > the
> > > > > > > population under 16 and suppressed women. What a
> formidable
> > global
> > > > > > > threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and
> the
> > crippled
> > > > > > > from previous wars and it is only less

Re: [biofuel] Measuring Lye

[Domenick V. Amato]

Check out the link below.  They have digital scales down to 0.1 gram
accuracy for less than $50 new.  Have you checked Ebay?

Dom Amato


http://www.aweighscales.com/digital_scales_Pocket_Digital_Scales.htm
- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:57 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Measuring Lye


> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
>
> Dan
>
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



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[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.

[Fred Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Domenick V. Amato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Yes.  According to Webster's it is " unsolicited usually commercial 
E-mail
> sent to a large number of addresses ".
> 

Dom, 

Glad you took the time to look it up.  His response was not un-
solicited and it was sent to only one address, the Biofuels list.  
There was no comercial value in it.  

If you had read the thread, you would understand how this pertains to 
Biofuels.

fred



> Dom
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:03 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at 
the
> RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> 
> 
> > Also,
> >
> > do you know what spam really is (in terms of the internet and not
> > hormel?)
> >
> > fred
> >
> >
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Say Dom,
> > >
> > > Did you bother to look at the entire thread?  Or are you the new
> > self-
> > > appointed Topic-Cop?
> > >
> > > fred
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Domenick V. Amato" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is
> > > appropriate?
> > > > You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you
> > have
> > > and you
> > > > are entitled to speak whatever you like.  This, however, is 
NOT
> > the
> > > place
> > > > for it.  It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this 
group is
> > > > organized.  To the extent that you continue with this 
political
> > > > self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group.
> > > >
> > > > Dom Amato
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message - 
> > > > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: 
> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: 
Looking
> > at
> > > the
> > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll 
never
> > > find one,
> > > > > nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets 
short
> > of
> > > breaking
> > > > > Biofuel down into individual sub-sets.
> > > > >
> > > > > Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any
> > > less "political," as
> > > > > you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw 
you
> > > into the
> > > > > field in the first place.
> > > > >
> > > > > Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the 
world
> > > has a great
> > > > > stake in how international administrations handle issues 
that
> > > determine
> > > > > control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that
> > includes "war
> > > and
> > > > > rumours of war."
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd Swearingen
> > > > >
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > From: "Tim Owens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: 
Looking
> > > at the
> > > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > To whom it may concern:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am leaving this "news group" because it is anything but 
a
> > > news group
> > > > > about
> > > > > > biofuel.  I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately 
it
> > > takes too
> > > > long
> > > > > > to sort through the unrelated emails.  Does anyone know 
of a
> > > good
> > > > > discussion
> > > > > > group where they stick to the subject matter and actually
> > > discuss
> > > > > producing
> > > > > > biofuels and alternate energy sources.  If so please let 
me
> > > know.  I
> > > > would
> > > > > > love to get involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > > From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM
> > > > > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was:
> > > Looking at the
> > > > > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > > > From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > To: 
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was:
> > > Looking at the
> > > > > > > RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greg,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably 
more
> > > > > > > > disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than 
the
> > > Iraqi army.
> > > > > > > > I do no want to do any clear cut final military
> > judgement,
> > > but it is
> > > > > > > > my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical
> > nature.
> > > They
> > > > > > > > have 

RE: [biofuel] (no subject)

[filip.ponsaerts]

Dear Dom Amato,

Can you elaborate somewhat more on this.
I've already seen several research papers stating that the 'normal' available 
additives for dino-diesel do little or nothing for Biodiesel. On the other 
hand, there are a few commercial products available which claim to to the 
thing for BioD.

I'm making my BioD based on animal fat (WVO), so I only can use a mixture of 
dino and BIO-Diesel to get the needed lower gelpoint.
So I would very much be intrested in any solution to lower the gelpoint 
without dino-diesel, prefferably in a reliable, cheap and... homemade(?) way.

Thnks,
Filip

>= Original Message From biofuel@yahoogroups.com =
>You might consider one of the wax crystal inhibitors used as an additive for
>diesel fuel.  It doesn't take much but they drop the "wax point" of diesel
>fuels.  It should work for these fuels.
>
>Dom Amato
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "gumpon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:15 PM
>Subject: [biofuel] (no subject)
>
>
>> Dear Keith
>> I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin,
>> crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than
>> 15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy  ( this might come from  some of
>> the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear
>> liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or
>> suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester  to run the
>> locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the
>> ambient temperature droped especially during the night.
>> Regards
>> Gumpon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Biofuels list archives:
>> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>
>> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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Aspartame was Re: [biofuel] Re: Fw: IS BUSH NUTS? by William ThomasÊ

[Appal Energy]

Here are a couple of locations that will better provide links to the
documentation you're asking for. The second hotlink is more of a general
summary.

http://www.dorway.com/symptoms.html
http://www.dorway.com/badnews.html#symptoms

Funny how Donald Rumsfeld's fingerprint is found throughout the entire
political history of aspartame's federal "approval."

http://www.rinfret.com/dr.html
>  The Aspartame/NutraSweet Fiasco
>  by
>  James S. Turner
>
>  Many health-conscious people believe that avoiding aspartame, found in
>over  5000 products under brand names such as Equal and NutraSweet, can
>improve
>  their quality of life. The history of this synthetic sweetener's approval
>  by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), including a long record
of
>  consumer complaints and the agency's demonstrated insensitivity to public
>  concern, suggests they're right.
>
>  In October 1980 the Public Board of Inquiry (PBOI) impaneled by the FDA
to
>  evaluate aspartame safety found that the chemical caused an unacceptable
>  level of brain tumors in animal testing. Based on this fact, the PBOI
>ruled  that aspartame should not be added to the food supply.
>
>  This ruling capped 15 years of regulatory ineptitude, chicanery and
>  deception by the FDA and the Searle drug company, aspartame's discoverer
>  and manufacturer (acquired by Monsanto in 1985), and kicked off another
>two  decades of maneuvering, manipulating and dissembling by FDA, Searle
and
>  Monsanto.
>
>  In 1965, a Searle scientist licked some of a new ulcer drug from his
>  fingers and discovered the sweet taste of aspartame. Eureka! Selling this
>  chemical as a food additive to hundreds of millions of healthy people
>every  day would mean many more dollars than limited sales to the much
smaller
>group of ulcer sufferers.
>
>  Searle, a drug company with little experience in food regulation, began
>  studies to comply with the law -- but which failed to do so. Its early
>  tests of the substance showed it produced microscopic holes and tumors in
>  the brains of experimental mice, epileptic seizures in monkeys, and was
>  converted by animals into dangerous substances, including formaldehyde.
>
>  In 1974, however, in spite of the information in its files, the FDA
>  approved aspartame as a dry-foods additive. But the agency also made
>public  for the first time the data supporting a food-additive decision.
>This data
>  was subsequently reviewed by renowned brain researcher John Olney from
>  Washington University in St. Louis, and other scientists.
>
>  Dr. Olney discovered two studies showing brain tumors in rats and
>  petitioned FDA for a public hearing. Consumer Action for Improved Foods
>and  Drugs (represented by the author of this piece) also petitioned for a
>  public hearing based on the approval process having been based on sloppy
>  science and the product's having reportedly caused epileptic seizures in
>  monkeys and possible eye damage.
>
>  Dr. Olney had already shown that aspartic acid (one aspartame component)
>  caused microscopic holes in the brains of rats after each feeding.
>  Aspartame also includes phenylalinine, which causes PKU in a small number
>  of susceptible children, and methyl, or wood, alcohol which is neurotoxic
>  in large amounts.
>
>  Faced with this array of possible health dangers, FDA granted the hearing
>  requests. In lieu of withdrawing its aspartame approval, the agency
>  prevailed on Searle to refrain from marketing the sweetener until after
>  completion of the hearing process. it then proposed that a Public Board
of
>  Inquiry (PBOI) review the matter.
>
>  In July of 1975, as the FDA prepared for the PBOI, an FDA inspector
>  conducted a routine review of the Searle's Skokie Ill., testing
facilities
>  and found many deviations from proper procedures. This report led the FDA
>  commissioner to empanel a Special Commissioner's Task Force to review
>  Searle's labs.
>
>  In December of 1975 the Task force reported serious problem with Searle
>  research on a wide range of products, including aspartame. It found 11
>  pivotal studies conducted in a manner so flawed as to raise doubts about
>  aspartame safety and create the possibility of serious criminal liability
>  for Searle.
>
>  The FDA then stayed aspartame's approval. It also contracted, over
serious
>  internal objection, with a group of university pathologists (paid by
>  Searle) to review most of the studies, set up a task force to review
three
>  studies and asked the U.S. Attorney for Chicago to seek a grand jury
>review  of the monkey seizure study.
>
>  The pathologists paid by Searle only reviewed failure to properly report
>  data and not the study's design or conduct. They found no serious
problems.
>  The FDA task force found Searle's key tumor safety study unreliable, but
>  was ignored. The U.S. attorney let the statue of limitations run out,
then
>  (along with two aides) proceeded to join Searle's law firm.
>
>  While these 

Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye

[Darryl McMahon]

Another term to look for is jeweller's balance.  I used to see these on ebay 
all 
the time.  Went for less than US$10 most of the time IIRC.

Darryl McMahon


To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
From:   "girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date sent:  Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:52:52 -
Subject:[biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye
Send reply to:  biofuel@yahoogroups.com

> I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have 
> bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes 
> takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple
> balance beam as well as scale there... flea markets sometimes have stuff
> like this too. So do pawn shops. mark
> 
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


Darryl McMahon  48 Tarquin Crescent,
Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8
 It's your planet.  Voice: (613)784-0655
 If you won't look  Fax:   (613)828-3199
 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/

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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Darryl McMahon]

"Domenick V. Amato" wrote:

> That's probably one of the most lame answers I have heard in a very long
> time.  I can assure you that the person who was in the SUV does not agree.
> Railroad trains can kill SUVs and Yugos can kill pedestrians. Should we
> ban railroad trains and Yugos or SUVs and pedestrians?  We probably should
> ban cars below the size of an SUV because they are the most unsafe of
> vehicles when involved in a accident.
> 

In my experience, we effectively do ban railroad trains.  We require them to 
have 
their own roads, and where they do intersect with automotive traffic, they 
require 
crossing gates or special warning signage, all erected at the expense of the 
rail 
operators.

Pedestrians are often provided with their own paths (sidewalks, crosswalks etc) 
to 
keep them separated from automotive traffic to reduce injuries from contact.

In some places, heavy trucks (over 5 tonnes) get their own roads, or at least 
their 
own lanes on highways.

So far, we do not require SUVs and "light" trucks to have their own roads, but 
this 
may be primarily because their appearance in large quantities is a relatively 
new 
phenomenon.

As for the tone of this list, I think if you review this thread, no one here 
has 
proposed a ban on SUVs.  We had a couple of posters who chose to interpret some 
comments in that way.  We do have some folks (including me) that would prefer 
to 
see drivers of heavy SUVs obtain additional licensing to operate these vehicles 
to 
ensure they know how they differ from smaller vehicles with lower centers of 
gravity.  Rollovers are a greater concern with SUVs and other high clearance 
vehicles than those with lower CGs.  Larger equipment is topical, as it often 
uses 
diesel engines.  Still, I don't plan to use a large diesel truck for commuting 
over 
a smaller vehicle just because it can run biodiesel.

Darryl McMahon




Darryl McMahon  48 Tarquin Crescent,
Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8
 It's your planet.  Voice: (613)784-0655
 If you won't look  Fax:   (613)828-3199
 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/

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Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning that really works with temps as low as 80C (176F)

[Mark Foltarz]

Curtis,

  Yes, the modern stirling engines use pressurized cases filled with helium.
Anything to eeek out a little more thermal efficiency.

Hmmm, I suppose hydrogen could be used. oh the humanity!

more fun:
http://users.moscow.com/oiseming/lc_ant_p/lnk_stir.htm

Mark


--- csakima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I recall, most of the Sterlings I  hear about use a working gas of
> Helium.
> 
> Curtis
> 
> Get your free newsletter at
> http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>  James,
> 
> If you can show me how the sterling will run from 80 degree Celsius solar
> heated warm water, I think we have an absolute winner.  If then the
> compressor would work with a gas that is not dangerous or contribute to
> Global warming. A fantastic solution that definitely have my support.
> 
> 
> 


__
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[biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye

[Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

I measure my Lye with a simple kitchen scale that I bought at a 
"Kitchen Stuff Plus" store here in Toronto. It cost me about $8 
Canadian.

Jeremy



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye

[James Slayden]

I was also wondering about that as a conversion table I looked at had
something like 1tsp == 1gm for salt.  Has anyone done a conversion for
Lye? Or seen one somewheres arounds?

James Slayden

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have
> bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes
> takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple
> balance beam as well as scale there...
> flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn shops.
> mark
>  
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
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> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [biofuel] Sorry for being a dumbo

[Greg and April]

I remember some talk about this, not to long ago, with a few sources named,
but, I wasn't paying to much attention to it at the time.  Your best bet
would be to check the Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ .

Greg H.

- Original Message -
From: "Perry Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:30
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Sorry for being a dumbo


> As to SVO, are there sources for this other than the jugs at the
> supermarket?  Halfway reasonable prices?  Is any (or much) filtering
needed
> for SVO as opposed to all the work for WVO?
>


> > >



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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Greg and April]

- Original Message -
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 01:21
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears




I'm sure that being able to drive a 62 ton M-1 Abrems, qualifies me to drive
a 1 1/2 ton SUV.  :-P

Greg H.

>
>
> 2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
>  necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
>  they have a truck license or similar.
>



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Behind the Great Divide

[Greg and April]

- Original Message -
From: "Domenick V. Amato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 07:15
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Behind the Great Divide



>
> When I wrote that I was reading email from this group for the first time.
I
> am a chemist who was, in the past, involved only marginally with the oil
> business.  I want to become involved with biofuels because I see it as an
> opportunity to do something that can be both creditable and profitable.
As
> I scanned down the long list of emails with "biofuels" in the subject
line,
> all I seemed to see were pro and anti-war commentary and an occasional
> harangue.
>
> It does not matter to me what your political affiliation is or what your
> opinion is any particular topic.  I have my own opinions.  What matters to
> me in the opportunity to learn something and , perhaps, the opportunity to
> share something I know in return.  I simply do not see the point of
> lambasting someone's antiwar position or lambasting George Bush for
> threatening war.  It accomplishes nothing in this arena.  However,
> discussing the effect of war or the possibility of war on the price of oil
> and, therefore, on the viability or development of biofuels is on-topic.
>

Many people on the list, see the war as a, result or by-product of the oil
issue, and so to them it would be on-topic.  For example, " Bush wants to
invade Iraq for the oil ", to some people, this is the truth, and to them it
would retard the developement of BioDiesel as a viable option for the
average consumer.  As a result of some of these discusions ( which I tried
to stay out of at first ), I learned a few things. It does not mean I totaly
change my stance on the issue, but, I am a little more aware.

> This group is one of a number of sources of information that I have begun
to
> use.  It is useful to me only if the value is worth the effort.   There
have
> been good discussions here so I will participate.  However, I will block
> senders whom I feel are primarily political in an attempt to focus on
> something that I may be able to control.  And I will be less likely to
> offend them.

This list, is like anyother, some of the info will be of use to some but not
to others.  I scan the subject line, and some of the info., and if it is no
use, or I don't want to be apart of it, I deleat it, and most of the other
items with that subject. If on the other hand, It is of intrest, I save it
for future referance, and I make a point to check all others with that same
subject, saveing the useful info, deleating things like the "Thank you" and
"Your welcome" post.

Greg H.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.

[Greg and April]

One small problem Dom, by joining the list, you solicited all E-mail from
it, not just this post and that post.

Greg H.

- Original Message -
From: "Domenick V. Amato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 07:19
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the
RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.


> Yes.  According to Webster's it is " unsolicited usually commercial E-mail
> sent to a large number of addresses ".
>
> Dom
>
>



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[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.

[Fred Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Greg, 

Thank you for the further clarification regarding the SPAM issue that 
Domenick brought up.  

BTW, Is the Abrams tank the one with the turbine?  I like turbines, 
they pack a lot of punch in a small package.  They make great flame 
throwers too!  E-mail me off list if you want to hear what I did with 
one.

fred


--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> One small problem Dom, by joining the list, you solicited all E-
mail from
> it, not just this post and that post.
> 
> Greg H.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Domenick V. Amato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 07:19
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking 
at the
> RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
> 
> 
> > Yes.  According to Webster's it is " unsolicited usually 
commercial E-mail
> > sent to a large number of addresses ".
> >
> > Dom
> >
> >


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Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!

[MH]

 Hi Robert, 

> Trying to limit discussion puts you in the position of being final arbiter
> of what ideas are acceptable to exchange in this forum.  I neither know, nor
> trust you (yet, anyway!), and from what I've read thus far, I don't think you
> fully understand the spirit of this particular forum.
> 
> After all, why shouldn't I be able to talk about the linkage between poor
> political leadership, the absolute lack of a decent energy policy and the
> Fundamentalist, Dispensationalist antichristian ideology that supports 
> military
> action to INCREASE the misery of people who have no ability to defend 
> themselves
> against us?  (I heard an excellent feature this morning on NPR about this very
> thing!  See the link at:
> 
> http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=3&prgDate=current
> 
> The news story was entitled: "Evangelicals for War"--an oxymoron 
> if
> there ever SHOULD be one!

 Thank you for the link!! 

> My interest in reducing energy use and using unconventional fuels
> necessarily limits the audience with whom I can discuss these issues.
> Personally, I would like to hear what like minded people are thinking--even if
> they disagree with me, as many in this forum do.
> 
> Dissent is NOT unAmerican!
> 
> robert luis rabello


 I'm not sure how like minded we are but I do enjoy reading your posts!!! 
 I'd hoped to listen to the Bush-Hussein debate but its not going to happen. 
 The Bush administration turned it down saying something about a reality check. 

 I came across a post regarding a letter this fellow wrote to Mr. Bush after 
listening
 to Rev. Dorsey Blake's sermon at the Church for the Fellowship of All Peoples. 
 I am not familiar with any of them but the letter below caught my ear --  

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=I%27m+Coming+for+You+with+Love&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=b3b227%242p94%241%40pencil.math.missouri.edu&rnum=1

 Mr. Bush: I'm Coming for You with Love
 by Robert Rabbin

 Dear Mr. Bush,

 Today is February 17th. Yesterday I attended the peace rally at the
 Civic Center in San Francisco, along with about 250,000 other people, as
 diverse a group of human beings as could be found anywhere in the world.
 I wish you could have been there.

 You were, as you might suspect, a central topic of conversation. Your
 picture was on wide display, though not always in the most flattering of
 ways. Had you been there, you would have heard many people denounce you
 for your foreign policy (and for your domestic policies as well). I do
 not denounce you.

 You would have heard many people express their anger and outrage towards
 you and your administration. I am not angry nor outraged.

 You would have heard people criticize and condemn you for your
 implacable stand for war with Iraq. I do not criticize or condemn you.

 Had you been there, you might have felt that many people even hated you.
 But I do not hate you-even though you stand alone-belligerent and
 defiant-against the United Nations, against the will and good judgement
 of the people of the United States, against the will and good judgement
 of the people of all other nations in the world, against prudence,
 against reason, against every sacred impulse to preserve life, against
 the united voices of religious leaders who are the emissaries of
 wisdom...even though you stand alone against all of this I do not hate you.

 I love you and I thank you, for you have shown me who is truly
 responsible and culpable for the current state of affairs. It is not
 you, nor your administration. Though it would be easy to make a case
 against you for bullying the world toward World War III, for threatening
 all prospects of a peaceful and prosperous future for not just our
 nation but for all nations, I will not do so.

 You are not to blame. I am. Not you. Me. This is what you have shown me,
 and for this I love you and thank you. You have awakened me to my own
 responsibility for these gathering storm clouds of misery and calamity.

 Here is what you have taught me: When I should have been awake, I was
 asleep. When I should have been involved, I was apathetic. When I should
 have been paying attention, I was distracted. When I should have been
 concerned, I was disinterested. When I should have spoken up, I was
 silent. When I should have been active, I was passive. When I should
 have stood tall, I crouched meekly. This is what you have taught me.

 You have also reminded me of the core teaching of all spiritual
 traditions and paths: We are all One being, connected and
 interdependent, sharing the same soul of light and love. From this view,
 the truth of which is confirmed by my personal experience, you are my
 own self. How can I blame you? When I look at you, at see myself.

 It is not a self I want to see, but there it is. When I see myself in
 you, I become ashamed, even fearful, for I see how easily I could forget
 everything I have learned in 30 years of spiritual study

[biofuel] Tony Blair White Paper on Global Warming and Renewable Energy

[murdoch]

This:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/whitepaper/index.shtml
seems to lead to this:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/whitepaper/ourenergyfuture.pdf

which may actually be "the" White Paper under discussion in the
following stories and others.

I haven't had time to read it.  I've read through a few stories and it
has continually struck me that Mr. Blair and his team seem very
focused on building centralized renewable electricity generation, but
do not seem to be very focused on alternative fuels for vehicles, nor
am I sure where they stand on the contributions that could be made
from allowing homeowners to generate their own power, such as through
aggressive net-metering programs for wind (and other forms of) power.
There seems to be no explicit mention at all in Mr. Blair's statements
of possibilities for Electric or Hybrid vehicles, other alt-fuels for
cars, use of biomass for car or other fuel, etc.

I have seen Mr. Blair for awhile as relatively enlightened on the
issue of the importance of renewable energy efforts, but I've also
come to see him as fighting the fight with one hand inadvertently tied
behind his back, as his team is not making him aware of all possible
technologies and political science innovations which could aid the
effort.  Maybe people like all of us can help by making them more
aware that their focus seems to be on some of the right path, but they
may have more going for them than they realize.  The choice is not
just between nuclear power vs. waves-solar-wind as the nuclear
proponents seem to be dead-set on portraying the choice.

For example, Britain became somewhat notorious last year as home to a
tax-collector shut-down of some citizens' efforts to use biofuels in
their vehicles (for one thing, it was lessening collection of road
taxes a legitimate concern if you need roads built to drive).  I'm
sure if Mr. Blair's team were more aware of this, they could get to
work designing a solution, so that use of biofuels was encouraged,
rather than discouraged and so that road taxes were still sufficiently
collected.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20030225/wl_oneworld/1032_1046175690

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/page.cfm?objectid=12680304&method=full&siteid=50082

http://www.e4engineering.com/item.asp?id=48001

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Multi-fuel turbine tank (Was [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation!)

[Greg and April]

Yes, it is the one with the Multi-Fuel turbine ( 0 to 60 in 20 sec.  ;-P ),
there were a few limitations as to what we could do with some fuels, ( could
not use the smoke generator with gasoline or similar low flash point fuels,
because the fuels in question, tended start engine fires ).  Rumor has it,
if the liquid in question could burn, they could use it as fuel,  I would be
very interested to know if this applied to SVO. The SVO might need to be
thinned, but it might just work.


Flame throwers?!

Greg H.

P.S. Notice how the post is still on topic ?  {:-P


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:38
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the
RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.


> Greg,
>
> Thank you for the further clarification regarding the SPAM issue that
> Domenick brought up.
>
> BTW, Is the Abrams tank the one with the turbine?  I like turbines,
> they pack a lot of punch in a small package.  They make great flame
> throwers too!  E-mail me off list if you want to hear what I did with
> one.
>
> fred
>
>



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[biofuel] Blair/Bush/Kyoto

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

Risk to environment poses same dangers as terror, warns Blair

Paul Brown, environment correspondent
Tuesday   February  25, 2003
The Guardian

The destruction of the environment and global warming are as great a 
threat to world peace as terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, the 
prime minister said yesterday.

In a speech which linked terrorism to global inequalities, Tony Blair 
took a sideswipe at his ally George Bush for tackling one and not the 
other. "There can be no lasting peace while there is appalling 
injustice and poverty," he said.

"Look around the world today, and it has to be said the quality of 
leadership on sustainable development elsewhere falls a little short of 
inspirational, especially in some of the world's most powerful nations.

"We can't allow ourselves to be thwarted by this sort of blind, 
business-as-usual bigotry."

There was a danger of polarity between two worlds, he told an audience 
of environmental pressure groups and quangos in London. Global poverty, 
deteriorating relations between the Muslim world and the west, plus 
environmental degradation, were as devastating in their potential 
impact as terrorism and weapons of mass destruction - some more so, he 
said.

The issues divided left from right, north from south, the US and its 
allies from the rest.

The only answer was to accept that these issues had to be considered 
alongside the issues of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction if 
the world's security and prosperity were to be guaranteed.

There will be no genuine security if the planet is ravaged by climate 
change, Mr Blair said, announcing an initiative to cut the UK's 
greenhouse house gas emissions by 60% by 2050.

Mr Blair also wrote to the Greek prime minister, Costas Simitis, in his 
capacity as president of the European council to get a 60% target 
adopted for Europe. Under the Kyoto agreement, EU members are committed 
to an 8% reduction by 2010, but the Blair plan is to get the whole of 
Europe, including the new accession states, agreeing to a 60% cut by 
2050.

The speech was billed as the Blair vision for a sustainable world, in 
which he took in the need for equality in world trade, eradication of 
poverty and debt, and preventing environmental degradation. It was made 
on the same day that the government launched its long awaited energy 
white paper, and published its annual statistics on quality of life in 
Britain.

Mr Blair announced an extra £70m for Carbon Trust, a body he set up two 
years ago to promote new technologies such as fuel cells, wave power, 
solar power and combined heat and   power plants. The government aimed 
to increase the existing target of 10% renewables by 2010 to 20% by 
2020. Nuclear power was given the cold shoulder, the industry left to 
run down as the old stations reached the end of their lives.

Jonathon Porritt, the chairman of the government's sustainable 
development commission, told the prime minister that his words were 
laudable. However, the gap between what was needed to promote 
sustainable development and what was happening was still growing.

Mr Blair conceded that Britain was "not meeting the scale of the 
challenge".

"We have not been bold enough... real investment now to tackle the 
causes of poverty and degradation could be such a strong signal of our 
determination to pursue justice in an evenhanded way.

"We need to combine greater economic development with better 
environmental impact, bringing the environment, economic development 
and social justice together.

"I believe our approach offers the best hope for ... building a more 
prosperous, just, and stable world. That is the real task of 
statesmanship today. And the time-scale is urgent," he said.

The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and 
Clarifications column, Wednesday February 26 2003

Two paragraphs were wrongly attributed to Tony Blair in this report. 
The passage, beginning "Look around the world today ..." and ending 
"blind, business-as-usual bigotry", was, in fact quoting the comments 
of Jonathon Porritt, the chairman of the government's sustainable 
development commission.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/story/0,9061,902505,00.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: palm oil biodiesel in Thailand - was [biofuel] (no subject)

[Keith Addison]

>Dear Keith
>I have the problem with the methyle ester we produced from stearin,
>crude or olein palm oil. When the temperature drops to about less than
>15 or 10 C, the ester become solid waxy  ( this might come from  some of
>the stearin which was not converted to ester ?) but it become clear
>liquid again when the temperature increases. Do you have any idea or
>suggestion to solve this problem because we use this ester  to run the
>locomotive in South of Thailand and this problem occured when the
>ambient temperature droped especially during the night.
>Regards
>Gumpon

Dear Gumpon

Sorry, I haven't been around much the last day or so. I think Ken 
gave you some good advice. What does Michael say, have you asked him?

You surprise me, I didn't know temperatures got that low in Thailand, 
certainly not when I've been there. I seasonal problem? - and should 
it be over soon until next year? Maybe if you can survive the next 
couple of weeks you'll have time to find a good solution. Meanwhile, 
pre-heating? - it sounds like you need something like a really big 
VEG-Therm. See http://www.biofuels.ca/ Or a tank heater. Possible?

Regards

Keith

(Do you have any photographs of the locomotive, Gumpon?)


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[biofuel] Re: Solar powered air conditioning & Stirling Motors

[doug_allbright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Mark

Check out this link they have 5hp stirling motors, I personally 
don't know a thing about Stirling motors but all the hubub about 
stirling motors sparked my interest. I ran across this link from 
someones post in here. They are in Japan and I could not find a 
price anywhere on the web site. Hope this is of help to ya.

http://www.stirling-tech.com/index.htm

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Foltarz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey, 
> 
>  I am just waiting to see any "real" stirling motors that can do 
any
> appreciable amount of work and are available for purchase.  Little 
kits that
> power fans from hot cups of coffee are great for the Captain 
Kangaroo bunch.
> But are there any real motors on the order of 5 bhp that arer 
available for
> purchase?
> 
>  Sun Power in Athens, Oh ( 
http://sunpower.com/enthusiast/index.html) is
> supposed be to be some kind of  Sterling mecca, but they are 
probably so tired
> of being inundated with basement tinkerers like myself, that they 
don't want to
> share much information. Also I believe their specialty now is 
the "CryoCooler" 
> - a novel artifact of the sterling motor - it becomes a 
refrigirator if you run
> power in to it. Reverse the power input and the same end turns 
very hot. So the
> stirling motor can function as a heat pump.   Todd have you ever 
chatted with 
> those folks there at SunPower?
> 
>  There is a group on Yahoo called SESUSA (http://www.sesusa.org) . 
Good info
> there but I have not seen any "real" workable engines that would 
be considered
> a powerplant that is available to a regular joe. Still pretty 
exotic yet.
> 
>   Yours,
> 
>   Mark
>



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Re: Multi-fuel turbine tank (Was [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation!)

[Frederick Finch]

Yes, flame throwers.

there was a series of procedures in place that we had when I was training 
to be an aircraft mechanic.  Well, the wiring was incorrectly installed so 
instead of Starter - Igniter - Fuel, it was Starter - Fuel - 
Igniter.   Needless to say that before we could stop the process the raw 
unburned fuel shot out the back about 100 feet. Then the igniter kicked 
in.  *FLAMETHROWER!!!*  It scared the hell out of me.

We were taught that if the materials you were attempting to use as fuel 
would burn you could run it in a turbine.  I always wanted to try that with 
veggie oil.  Keeping it on topic. ;-)

fred

At 12:04 PM 2/27/2003 -0700, Greg and April wrote:
>Yes, it is the one with the Multi-Fuel turbine ( 0 to 60 in 20 sec.  ;-P ),
>there were a few limitations as to what we could do with some fuels, ( could
>not use the smoke generator with gasoline or similar low flash point fuels,
>because the fuels in question, tended start engine fires ).  Rumor has it,
>if the liquid in question could burn, they could use it as fuel,  I would be
>very interested to know if this applied to SVO. The SVO might need to be
>thinned, but it might just work.
>
>
>Flame throwers?!
>
>Greg H.
>
>P.S. Notice how the post is still on topic ?  {:-P
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:38
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the
>RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
>
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > Thank you for the further clarification regarding the SPAM issue that
> > Domenick brought up.
> >
> > BTW, Is the Abrams tank the one with the turbine?  I like turbines,
> > they pack a lot of punch in a small package.  They make great flame
> > throwers too!  E-mail me off list if you want to hear what I did with
> > one.
> >
> > fred
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[ehall]

On a similar note, anyone know where to get an inexpensive digital PH
meter??

Thanks,
Ed



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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Hakan Falk]

Greg,

Absolutely and I envy you.

Being in the signal corps the limit for me was bandwagon truck (wheel in 
front) and other larger/smaller vehicles with wheels. I started as 
communication specialist with Morse, codification and that stuff, but after 
a transfer the slots for this in the new place was filled. Since I had 
professional licence for Taxi, Buses and Trucks (financed my studies that 
way), I did some time on transportation support, when waiting for 
assignment. Finally I ended up as group leader for quality testing of 
electronic equipment/material deliveries. I would have loved to try or 
learn to drive a tank -:).

Hakan


At 10:42 AM 2/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 01:21
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
>
>
>
>
>I'm sure that being able to drive a 62 ton M-1 Abrems, qualifies me to drive
>a 1 1/2 ton SUV.  :-P
>
>Greg H.
>
> >
> >
> > 2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
> >  necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
> >  they have a truck license or similar.
> >
>



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[biofuel] Re: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Thor Skov]

--- "Domenick V. Amato"  wrote:
> What is luxo junk to one is comfort and safety to
another.  The general
> public votes with its pocket book for SUVs and
pickup trucks.  Fifty million
> Americans can't be politically incorrect.
> 
> Dom Amato

Hello Don,

By that logic, slavery wasn't bad.  Neither was Hitler
(I mean, 80 million? Germans can't be wrong).  

But, Don, you're absolutely correct that the general
public does vote for SUVs with their pocketbook.  The
question is, why? 

Your implied answer to that question seems to be
because they know what's best for them.

That's possible.  It is also possible that people are
duped by advertising, have few fuel efficient
automobile choices, and often do not make rational
economic choices.

I've read (and though I can't provide a reference, I'm
sure someone else on this list can) that SUVs are the
most profitable cars for automakers, which is why they
push them so hard.  It's a fact that SUVs are a
loophole around CAFE standards.  People have latched
onto them, for sure, but don't try to tell me that the
SUV phenomenon was not driven to a great degree by
advertising.  Automakers love to claim that they just
build what people want, but they have a strong hand in
creating those wants.  Fact:  automakers didn't want
to have to invest in the research to design fuel
efficient engines, make the commitment to retool
factories.  It was easier to take a truck frame and
build a "car" on it.  Europeans have fuel efficient
cars.  Why don't we?

When I went to look for a fuel efficient car my
choices were incredibly limited - Honda Insight, Honda
Civic, Ford Focus, Toyota Prius, Toyota Corolla, and
the VW TDI.  I  opted for the VW Golf because it was
cheaper than the Insight and Prius (as well as more
available, was the only hatchback, could burn
biodiesel, was more comfortable than the Fords, seemed
better engineered and had better styling, and was a
hatchback.  Also, I like the way a european car
drives, compared to a japanese.  Now, I love my Golf,
but I was lucky to find a model that I indeed did like
from among the paucity of choices.

I honestly think that American values are messed
up--people really do love big cars, and small cars
with big engines.  It's about power power power, and
yet there is no place to use this power.  People want
cars that can go 140 mph, but will never drive them
faster than half that.  Doesn't seem rational to me. 
I remember longing for a Toyota SR5 4WD pickup when I
was in high school (just like the one in Back to the
Future), but hey, I GREW UP!

Fact:  SUVs are not the safest cars out there;
minivans are, and they have more room, get better
mileage, and cost less than SUVs.  But minivans are
not "cool" which tells me that people are thinking
about styling and image (the advertising influence)
and not about economics or practicality.   Also, most
people are bent on ownership versus receiving a flow
of services from an automobile.  Let me explain.

I live in Seattle, where it seems that every other
vehicle is an SUV or a truck.  People insist they need
a 4wd vehicle.  But we have mild winters, with little
snow to speak of, and the one time a year it does snow
you stay at home since Seattle is full of hills and
people here don't know how to drive in snow anyway. 
So 2 inches shuts everything down.  Now a lot of
people I know who own SUVs claim that they need them
to go to the mountains, to go skiing, etc etc. 
However, most ski areas you can get to just fine with
a front wheel drive car.  And who's really going to
take a $55,000 Escalade or Navigator or Mercedes
off-road?  But let's assume that they do indeed go
somewhere where an *only* an SUV can go.  How often is
that?  2, 3 times a year at most?  So they purchase an
SUV ostensibly for those rare occasions, and the other
355 days they commute in a gas guzzling behemoth.  If
instead they had an efficient car for their daily
needs, they could take all that money they save in
capital and operating costs (licensing, fuel,
insurance) and rent an SUV for the few times they need
it, and have cash left over.  Would you go out and buy
a dumptruck if you needed to haul a load of dirt, and
then drive it to work every day?  But, people are
taught by advertising and by example to think in terms
of ownership, not in flows of services.

I know that cars are (unfortunately) part of the
american persona and american psyche.  And the
American dream and the american myth.  But just
because a lot of people buy SUVs does not mean that
they are making a good choice, nor that SUVs are the
best vehicle to use for one's everyday needs.

regards,

thor skov





=
Grants Manager
Stillaguamish Tribe Of Indians
3439 Stoluckquamish Lane
P.O. Box 277
Arlington, WA 98223-0277
(360) 652-7362  Ext 284

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RE: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning & Stirling Motors

[Kris Book]

In a sunny climate like the mountains of New Mexico this
thing will make around 250 kwh a day and at ten cents each
that means about $25 a day worth of electricity. And
figuring 300 days a year of good sunshine, that comes to
about $7500 per year or less than six years pay back on the
machine. All a person has to do is find a use for $25 a day
worth of electricity. I can think of a few.

kris
--- Doug Allbright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I went and checked that site out and the unit was 42,000
> big ones. And that not with all the bells and whistles
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:24 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning &
> Stirling Motors
> 
> 
> Last time I asked the price was in the 5 digits. Wish in
> one hand and spit
> in the other to see which one fills up fastest.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Foltarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning &
> Stirling Motors
> 
> 
> > I want one!!
> >
> > --- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >  Sun Power in Athens, Oh (
> http://sunpower.com/enthusiast/index.html)
> is
> > > > supposed be to be some kind of  Sterling mecca, but
> they are probably
> so
> > > tired
> > > > of being inundated with basement tinkerers like
> myself, that they
> don't
> > > want to
> > > > share much information. Also I believe their
> specialty now is the
> > > "CryoCooler"
> > > > - a novel artifact of the sterling motor - it
> becomes a refrigirator
> if
> > > you run
> > > > power in to it. Reverse the power input and the
> same end turns very
> hot.
> > > So the
> > > > stirling motor can function as a heat pump.   Todd
> have you ever
> chatted
> > > with
> > > > those folks there at SunPower?
> > >
> > > I've seen their 1kW gennie in operation. It runs on
> biomass - wood
> chips,
> > > cobs and the like. Slick as a whistle, with their
> magnetically
> "suspended"
> > > piston. Sets into motion the imagery a bit like an
> overglorified pellet
> > > stove, coupled with the Stirling engine and a
> generator, all wrapped up
> in a
> > > portable and aesthetic package about the size of a
> 1-5 kW gasoline
> gennie.
> > >
> > > It's a great little unit, especially if the waste
> heat were coupled into
> a
> > > water or residence heating system. Just a bit on the
> pricey side though,
> as
> > > the few units made have been cast and prepared
> individually. It's going
> to
> > > take a seriously interested manufacturer to get the
> price down to the
> "Home
> > > Depot" (that's "consumer warehouse") level.
> > >
> > > Todd Swearingen
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
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[biofuel] RE: Cheap pH and scales

[Brian Kelly]

I just purchased a $29 pH meter called the "Hanna" pH
on the internet. It's a little pocket pH. I also
purchased a 250gram pocket scale on e-bay last week
and it came w/ a 100g calibration weight($30).
(in the U.S.)

Brian
--- ehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On a similar note, anyone know where to get an
> inexpensive digital PH
> meter??
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> 
> 
> 


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RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[Doug Allbright]

Ed
 
just call your local Scientific supplies store they will have it. I just did 
about ten minutes ago and I am waiting on a call back.
 
Doug
 

-Original Message-
From: ehall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:53 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales



On a similar note, anyone know where to get an inexpensive digital PH
meter??

Thanks,
Ed




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 . 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Greg and April]

It was fun, I admit that, not as much fun as firing the main gun, but, did
it more often.

Funny thing, when it came time for my folks to teach me to drive, they used
a '72 Mercury Grand Marquee 4 dr. station wagon, ( not just big, but very
big ).  Then my first car was a '71 Merc. Montego, another large vehical(
what can I say, it was free ).  I spent 8 years driving big vehicles, after
first learning to drive, and it just seems natural.  I don't have any
respect for the people who zip in on out of traffic in their small cars just
because they can, and turn around and deride me for driving a large vehical
because it's a danger to them.  I have driven  small vehicles since my first
car gave up the ghost, and the last was a Subaru that barley got 25 mpg on a
good day ( this one to just died ) so what do I do?   I get a Toyota Land
Cruiser ( diesel ) I'm figuring to get about 30 mpg. I figure that a larger
vehical that has better mileage is better than trying to resuscitate, the
Subaru.

Greg H.

- Original Message -
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 13:11
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears


>
> Greg,
>
> Absolutely and I envy you.
>
> I would have loved to try or
> learn to drive a tank -:).
>
> Hakan



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[biofuel] Silk Purses out of Sows Ears - Kill this thread!

[Mark Foltarz]

>I know that cars are (unfortunately) part of the
>american persona and american psyche.  And the
>American dream and the american myth. 

True!

 But some other things,  really excellent things are also part of the "American
myth."  Self reliance, ingenuity and that ever pervasive "can do" spirit.
At least these were attributes that helped make this country great in the last
century. 

 It's still everywhere. It's just not glamorous. It never will be.

 Its really neat when you can tap into those things without distraction from
"social norms" pupmed in via the media. 

 Lord give me the strength to shoot my television! 

  Mark





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[biofuel] minivans and detroit was Re: SUV question -

[girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

I'm glad that Thor pointed out the comparison between suv's and the 
minivans that preceded them and served the 'same purpose'. 
People often think that automotive choice comes down to either buying 
a huge SUV versus a Honda Civic- and yeah, if you have 3 kids and a 
spouse and occasional friend to drive around, a Civic might not be 
the most comfortable vehicle (but that doesn't describe most people's 
car use these days).  But look at what most suv drivers are doing 
most of the time- the same jobs they did in minivans until a few 
years ago (plus a lot of jobs they did in Civics- commuting alone). 

 Minivans, the popular selling vehicles of 10 years ago, got somewhat 
good fuel economy (compared to 8-cylinder SUV's). 

One obvious problem is that many of them weren't built well- but 
neither are many of the minivan-like SUV's (the 'cheaper', smaller 
SUV's. I haven't driven, say, a Cadillac Escalade or a Hummer of 
Mercedes suv so I can't comment on the more expensive ones- but I 
absolutely agree with Foltarz' assessment of SUV's being 'luxo junk' 
much of the time after having driven my (borrowed) share of Isuzu 
Rodeos and jeep Cherokees)
- I imagine they'll have all the same body problems for instance as 
cheap american minivans did past a certain age (by the way I'm 
partial to minivans as a perfect size utility van).  I think that 
whatever popular trendy vehicle Detroit is building 'in a hurry' 
tends to be poor quality (for a funny look at this problem, look for 
a book called Rivethead by Flint autoworker-turned-writer Ben Hamper, 
about his experiences building Suburbans in the late 1970's, and why 
they were so terrible). In the case of SUV's the quality issue is 
masked by the large engine (they MIGHT last a little longer than a 4-
cylinder Dodge minivan engine- but I wouldn't bank on it)
mark






> 
> Fact:  SUVs are not the safest cars out there;
> minivans are, and they have more room, get better
> mileage, and cost less than SUVs.  But minivans are
> not "cool" which tells me that people are thinking
> about styling and image (the advertising influence)
> and not about economics or practicality.   Also, most
> people are bent on ownership versus receiving a flow
> of services from an automobile.  Let me explain.
> 
> I live in Seattle, where it seems that every other
> vehicle is an SUV or a truck.  People insist they need
> a 4wd vehicle.  But we have mild winters, with little
> snow to speak of, and the one time a year it does snow
> you stay at home since Seattle is full of hills and
> people here don't know how to drive in snow anyway. 
> So 2 inches shuts everything down.  Now a lot of
> people I know who own SUVs claim that they need them
> to go to the mountains, to go skiing, etc etc. 
> However, most ski areas you can get to just fine with
> a front wheel drive car.  And who's really going to
> take a $55,000 Escalade or Navigator or Mercedes
> off-road?  But let's assume that they do indeed go
> somewhere where an *only* an SUV can go.  How often is
> that?  2, 3 times a year at most?  So they purchase an
> SUV ostensibly for those rare occasions, and the other
> 355 days they commute in a gas guzzling behemoth.  If
> instead they had an efficient car for their daily
> needs, they could take all that money they save in
> capital and operating costs (licensing, fuel,
> insurance) and rent an SUV for the few times they need
> it, and have cash left over.  Would you go out and buy
> a dumptruck if you needed to haul a load of dirt, and
> then drive it to work every day?  But, people are
> taught by advertising and by example to think in terms
> of ownership, not in flows of services.
> 
> 


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[biofuel] National Tribal Renewable Sustainability Conference

[moytoy12 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

The Council of Energy Resource Tribes (CERT) is holding the National 
Tribal Sustainability Conference, April 15, 16, 2003, in 
Albuquerque, New Mexico.  Go to www.certredearth.com for more info 
and registration.  CERT is an intertribal consortia assisting tribes 
with the prudent development of tribal Natural resources.  This 
conference has a particular focus on Biomass(biodiesel, ethanol!!), 
Hydropower, Renewable(solar, geothermal, wind, and PV), and 
Tribal utility formation.  This conference will bring together 
tribes, government and industry.




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Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Domenick V. Amato]

It was a joke, a take-off of an old statement made by the French to justify
whatever they wanted.  "fifty million Frenchmen can't be wrong".  It was
intended as sarcasm rather than an true statement.  Perhaps my jokes are
getting a little too old.

Sorry.  What you say is basically true.  But people have as much right to
vote with their money as they have to vote for their president.  (More
sarcasm - I know we don't vote directly for our President).  There are
probably people as angry about the election of Bush as I was about the
election of Clinton (both were elected by less than half the votes cast).
But the results are the results.  If we want to get people to do what we
feel is the right thing, we are going to have a hard life.  Why don't we
find out what is about them that people like and work towards producing that
meets peoples needs that is "better" than what exists.

Biofuels is one approach that can make these SUVs better.

Dom

- Original Message - 
From: "Thor Skov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears


>
> --- "Domenick V. Amato"  wrote:
> > What is luxo junk to one is comfort and safety to
> another.  The general
> > public votes with its pocket book for SUVs and
> pickup trucks.  Fifty million
> > Americans can't be politically incorrect.
> >
> > Dom Amato
>
> Hello Don,
>
> By that logic, slavery wasn't bad.  Neither was Hitler
> (I mean, 80 million? Germans can't be wrong).
>
> But, Don, you're absolutely correct that the general
> public does vote for SUVs with their pocketbook.  The
> question is, why?
>
> Your implied answer to that question seems to be
> because they know what's best for them.
>
> That's possible.  It is also possible that people are
> duped by advertising, have few fuel efficient
> automobile choices, and often do not make rational
> economic choices.
>
> I've read (and though I can't provide a reference, I'm
> sure someone else on this list can) that SUVs are the
> most profitable cars for automakers, which is why they
> push them so hard.  It's a fact that SUVs are a
> loophole around CAFE standards.  People have latched
> onto them, for sure, but don't try to tell me that the
> SUV phenomenon was not driven to a great degree by
> advertising.  Automakers love to claim that they just
> build what people want, but they have a strong hand in
> creating those wants.  Fact:  automakers didn't want
> to have to invest in the research to design fuel
> efficient engines, make the commitment to retool
> factories.  It was easier to take a truck frame and
> build a "car" on it.  Europeans have fuel efficient
> cars.  Why don't we?
>
> When I went to look for a fuel efficient car my
> choices were incredibly limited - Honda Insight, Honda
> Civic, Ford Focus, Toyota Prius, Toyota Corolla, and
> the VW TDI.  I  opted for the VW Golf because it was
> cheaper than the Insight and Prius (as well as more
> available, was the only hatchback, could burn
> biodiesel, was more comfortable than the Fords, seemed
> better engineered and had better styling, and was a
> hatchback.  Also, I like the way a european car
> drives, compared to a japanese.  Now, I love my Golf,
> but I was lucky to find a model that I indeed did like
> from among the paucity of choices.
>
> I honestly think that American values are messed
> up--people really do love big cars, and small cars
> with big engines.  It's about power power power, and
> yet there is no place to use this power.  People want
> cars that can go 140 mph, but will never drive them
> faster than half that.  Doesn't seem rational to me.
> I remember longing for a Toyota SR5 4WD pickup when I
> was in high school (just like the one in Back to the
> Future), but hey, I GREW UP!
>
> Fact:  SUVs are not the safest cars out there;
> minivans are, and they have more room, get better
> mileage, and cost less than SUVs.  But minivans are
> not "cool" which tells me that people are thinking
> about styling and image (the advertising influence)
> and not about economics or practicality.   Also, most
> people are bent on ownership versus receiving a flow
> of services from an automobile.  Let me explain.
>
> I live in Seattle, where it seems that every other
> vehicle is an SUV or a truck.  People insist they need
> a 4wd vehicle.  But we have mild winters, with little
> snow to speak of, and the one time a year it does snow
> you stay at home since Seattle is full of hills and
> people here don't know how to drive in snow anyway.
> So 2 inches shuts everything down.  Now a lot of
> people I know who own SUVs claim that they need them
> to go to the mountains, to go skiing, etc etc.
> However, most ski areas you can get to just fine with
> a front wheel drive car.  And who's really going to
> take a $55,000 Escalade or Navigator or Mercedes
> off-road?  But let's assume that they do indeed go
> somewhere where an *only* an SUV can go.  How often i

Re: [biofuel] minivans and detroit was Re: SUV question -

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc]

I'd like to jump in a moment:

I just returned last night from a 2300 km filter test /R&D run and  
climate change presentation in Northern Alberta, through BC and Alberta  
wilderness and the winter snow. (Some pics on our site later today I  
hope)

This was  most definitely in the land of big turbodiesel pickups and  
gas guzzling SUV's, where people feel they really need them to get  
around, in their region of trees, coal and oil resource extraction on  
the biggest scale you can imagine.

I hardly saw a car and every time I parked, there was a Cummins, a  
Duramax or a PowerStroke beside me, left running, BTW, as it the habit  
in winter - even when it is only about -5C it seems! It's the cool  
thing to do, apparently to start you Cummins (the noisemakers) about  
5AM, and then go back into the motel for about an hour, even though  
it's been plugged in all night! Wake up everybody, the Cummins is up,  
you should be too!

Some days the owners do, of course, need these things, but almost all  
the ones I saw were empty and the funny thing is, a 4 cylinder  
turbodiesel got me and 120+ litres of fuel (when I left here), tools,  
clothing, computer and digital video studio there and back, at temps as  
low as -15C, and at over 50 mpg (average speed around 100 km/h)

Then this morning, after 16 hours on the road yesterday, and a bit of  
sleep last night, my kids woke me up and I started up on WVO (long  
story, and no I did not forget to switch!) and I took them and their  
backpacks to school in the same vehicle (two teens). We also carry  
their mountain bikes, snowboards and skis around with a Thule roof rack.

Front wheel drive, good winter tires, food and water, some basic tools  
and spares and you are all set. I was literally out there with the  
wolves (quick, toss them a jug of WVO!, on the so-called "Scenic Route  
to Alaska", in February.

  It's often the  overconfident 4x4 SUV drivers that go in the ditch,  
often on their roofs, around here.

Quality? The Jetta is a 91, with 300,000 km on it. Drives like new with  
a new set of struts just installed, and gets about 60 mpg. Very few  
rattles, although a few of the spiffy ground effects plastic bits have  
gone missing on some rough roads over the years, I will admit!

It also boasts a very healthy top speed, BTW, of course that was  
"closed course, professional driver".

Anyway, I'll take the Euro-spec Caravan with the turbodiesel, please,  
or a VW Sharan TDI or Toyota 4x4 turbodiesel vanany of the above  
can be put in a container and donated, please, (left hand drive  
preferred) - that will be nicer for future meetings and long trips.  
Just send a mid-nineties model to Vancouver, someone, and I will pick  
it up there...the Jetta will wear out one of these days...NOT ( I  
recently talked to a prospector/TDI owner who had just "retired" his 86  
Jetta TD at 1.3 MILLION kilometers, on a head gasket and radiator  
replacement and regular maintenance.

Oh, would I have preferred to have taken a Mercedes, like say the 83 TD  
I used to have,  on this trip? No way. Just my opinion.

;-)

Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca




On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 01:10 PM, girl_mark_fire  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm glad that Thor pointed out the comparison between suv's and the
> minivans that preceded them and served the 'same purpose'.
> People often think that automotive choice comes down to either buying
> a huge SUV versus a Honda Civic- and yeah, if you have 3 kids and a
> spouse and occasional friend to drive around, a Civic might not be
> the most comfortable vehicle (but that doesn't describe most people's
> car use these days).  But look at what most suv drivers are doing
> most of the time- the same jobs they did in minivans until a few
> years ago (plus a lot of jobs they did in Civics- commuting alone).
>
>  Minivans, the popular selling vehicles of 10 years ago, got somewhat
> good fuel economy (compared to 8-cylinder SUV's).
>
> One obvious problem is that many of them weren't built well- but
> neither are many of the minivan-like SUV's (the 'cheaper', smaller
> SUV's. I haven't driven, say, a Cadillac Escalade or a Hummer of
> Mercedes suv so I can't comment on the more expensive ones- but I
> absolutely agree with Foltarz' assessment of SUV's being 'luxo junk'
> much of the time after having driven my (borrowed) share of Isuzu
> Rodeos and jeep Cherokees)
> - I imagine they'll have all the same body problems for instance as
> cheap american minivans did past a certain age (by the way I'm
> partial to minivans as a perfect size utility van).  I think that
> whatever popular trendy vehicle Detroit is building 'in a hurry'
> tends to be poor quality (for a funny look at this problem, look for
> a book called Rivethead by Flint autoworker-turned-writer Ben Hamper,
> about his experiences building Suburbans in the late 1970's, and why
> they were so terrible). In the case of SUV's the quality issue is
> masked by 

Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Greg and April]

1st Cav - Ft Hood.

Greg H.

- Original Message - 
From: "greg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 14:49
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears


> where? i was in 3AD



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Re: [biofuel] Retrieving the gold...

[James Slayden]

Hrmm, can't seem to find a link for that.  Might you have one?

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Robby Davenport wrote:

> lowes stores in the usa have deep fryer oil pumps battery operated , for
> the deep friers used for whole turkeys; it even has a screen on the
> intake . price about 30 buck ' s Robert
> 
> Keith Addison wrote:
> 
> >>hello to all. Just joined and am setting up to make my
> >>own fuel. I have a question. What kind of pump is best
> >>for retrieving the used cooking oil from the
> >>containers "out back" of the restaurant ?  I'm looking
> >>at 12 volt vane pumps, gear pumps, engine powered
> >>Trash pumps. WHAT are the rest of you using ??
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Bill in Az.
> >>
> >>=
> >>Bill & Melley Kitchin
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>602-999-7606
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >
> >Welcome, Bill
> >
> >Hope you get some good responses - I'd also appreciate some good
> >advice on this, the methods we've used up to now have been less than
> >ideal. Time to upgrade.
> >
> >Meanwhile, have a look at how Chuck Ranum does it:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Biofuels list archives:
> >http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
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> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> >
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[James Slayden]

Titration scale:

http://www.aweighscales.com/digital_scales_Gram_Scales.htm

$10 seems doable .


James Slayden

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mark, thanks! I completely forgot about this technique, and it's
> super useful for those not planning to make any quantities of fuel-
> like SVo'ers needing a small amount of lye/water reference tester for
> doing titration on oil to see how bad it is for instance. Asking
> people to shell out even $25 for a scale they'll only use once is
> painful.
> 
> At one of the first workshops I taught, my friend and I showed up
> separately at a campout and he figured out that he'd forgotten his
> scale and part of his other supplies (we'd sorta kinda planned doing
> a demo of biodiesel to identify the nerds among us so he did have the
> oil and lye). What to do? My friend was a first aid person, and using
> some supplies of his I built a scale- a straw with a string threaded
> through the exact middle for the balance, with a pair of small
> plastic medicine cups hanging on either end.  We had syringe bodies,
> and used one syringe to put a few milliliters of water in one end of
> the 'scale' and poured lye into the other till we had the amount that
> balanced the weight of the water in the other cup.
> 
> It was windy and I had to attach the'scale' to a rear view mirror of
> a car, and to make it work in the wind I got into the car, rolled up
> the windows and closed the doors, and the workshop participants
> crowded around and gawked while my friend narrated from the outdoors.
> I felt like a fish in an aquarium.
> 
> 
> I remember that someone years ago suggested finding paper in a
> certain weight per ream, cutting little 1 cubic centimeter weights
> out of it, and doing what Foltarz suggests below.
> 
> mark
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Foltarz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Unless I made a wrong turn on a calculation, it looks as if water
> weighs 1.0233
> > gms / CC. Yes, thats absolutely pure deionized water.
> >
> > Suppose you made a balance with two graduated containers and a
> balance beam.
> > Something about coat hangers and Wal Mart kitchen supplies come to
> mind.
> >
> > You could then add a specific amount of water to one container for
> a specific
> > weight. Than add the lye to the other container  until the system
> comes back
> > into balance.
> >
> > Similarly, you could borrow a scale to calibrate your own little
> weights - 1gm,
> > 10gm, 50gm etc. Make a few of each. These could be used in place of
> liquid
> > water.
> >
> >
> ~~
> 
> > Nahh just save up some bread and buy a digital designer
> scale at  the
> > William Sonoma. Just kidding! Yikes!
> >
> ~~
> 
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have
> > > bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It
> sometimes
> > > takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or
> triple
> > > balance beam as well as scale there...
> > > flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn
> shops.
> > > mark
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without
> > > > a scale.  The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund
> > > > Scientific was 100 bucks.  Is there a general
> > > > conversion that is pretty acurate?  Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > > __
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
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[biofuel] Drill Pump $4.86

[James Slayden]

Hola Folks,

Here is a drill pump for pumping BD for only $4.86 @ Lowes.  This is
similar to the one that Sears puts out only costs less.  Great for both
110v and portable drills.  BTW, only to be used for BD as Mark will
contest that WVO is too much for this little pump.

Mark, didn't you mention a rebuildable version of this that was somewhat
more hardy?

James Slayden



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Re: [biofuel] Drill Pump $4.86

[James Slayden]

whoops forgot the link:

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=25781-335-RDP-1

Sorry!

James

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, James Slayden wrote:

> Hola Folks,
> 
> Here is a drill pump for pumping BD for only $4.86 @ Lowes.  This is
> similar to the one that Sears puts out only costs less.  Great for both
> 110v and portable drills.  BTW, only to be used for BD as Mark will
> contest that WVO is too much for this little pump.
> 
> Mark, didn't you mention a rebuildable version of this that was somewhat
> more hardy?
> 
> James Slayden
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[Perry Jones]

OK, I'll bite:  What the heck is a 62 ton M-1 Abrems?
Perry

- Original Message -
From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears


>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 01:21
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
>
>
>
>
> I'm sure that being able to drive a 62 ton M-1 Abrems, qualifies me to
drive
> a 1 1/2 ton SUV.  :-P
>
> Greg H.
>
> >
> >
> > 2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
> >  necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
> >  they have a truck license or similar.
> >
>
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

[ehall]

I picked up one of these little scales at a local head shop. It was
inexpensive ($12.00) and has worked really well. It's incredibly
sensitive and adjustable. 



-Original Message-
From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales

Titration scale:

http://www.aweighscales.com/digital_scales_Gram_Scales.htm

$10 seems doable .





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Affordable Oil Pump was Re: [biofuel] Drill Pump $4.86

[Appal Energy]

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003022719402932&catname=&qty=1&it
em=2-1225

This 115 volt pump will handle SVO or heated WVO, biodiesel and water.
Originally designed by Little Giant as a solvent pump.

Relatively fast, ~300 gph on veg oil. Best little durable, all around pump
that your money can buy. Intake and outlets are 1/2" NPT, making plumbing
into small diameter systems a snap.


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[biofuel] $40 (?) Affordable Oil Pump was Re: [

[girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

The link didn't work right despite the proper cut and pasting- but I 
think I know which pump this is from having gotten the info from Todd 
before. note that they're not selfpriming. I bought one of them, and 
they're fine for my purposes (moving fluids around at my site), but 
non-self-priming pumps can really confound beginners A foot valve 
(harbor freight, or local hardware stores) or maybe an inline check 
valve (easier to find in hardware stores) might make this work for 
oil getting- once you prime it. 
 
mark



-- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?
UID=2003022719402932&catname=&qty=1&it
> em=2-1225
> 
> This 115 volt pump will handle SVO or heated WVO, biodiesel and 
water.
> Originally designed by Little Giant as a solvent pump.
> 
> Relatively fast, ~300 gph on veg oil. Best little durable, all 
around pump
> that your money can buy. Intake and outlets are 1/2" NPT, making 
plumbing
> into small diameter systems a snap.


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[biofuel] $40 (?) Affordable Oil Pump was Re: [

[girl_mark_fire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Actually come to think of it, that pump doesn't work well for cold 
wvo at all as todd mentioned. It just doesn't have much suction.

mark





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Re: [biofuel] $40 (?) Affordable Oil Pump was Re: [

[Appal Energy]

No. It's an "in house" pump for moving fluids around in a small (250 -500
gpd) processing situation.

Best method I've seen yet for collecting oil is a vacuum pump similar to
what you'll find on septic service trucks.
http://www.aquadevice.com/english/03pump_universal.htm

Trash pumps work on warm days and can handle burger patties well. It's when
the evening chills and you're trying to move pudding that they come up
lacking.

But if you're moving as much oil as a trash pump or vacuum pump can handle
in the summer, the easiest thing to do in winter is switch to a process of
exchanging dumpsters, removing full ones to a warm shop.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: [biofuel] $40 (?) Affordable Oil Pump was Re: [


> Actually come to think of it, that pump doesn't work well for cold
> wvo at all as todd mentioned. It just doesn't have much suction.
>
> mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>
>


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RE: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[harley3]

Hakan:

 Off subject. sorry, but 20 miles south of where I live.  There is a
gentlemen that collects and rents out US tanks, and APC.  Old Sherman's to
newer M-60s.   All the guns are spiked and welded.  I hear they are not
cheap to rent but he has a open field that you can take one out and play.

Harley
  -Original Message-
  From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:12 PM
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears



  Greg,

  Absolutely and I envy you.

  Being in the signal corps the limit for me was bandwagon truck (wheel in
  front) and other larger/smaller vehicles with wheels. I started as
  communication specialist with Morse, codification and that stuff, but
after
  a transfer the slots for this in the new place was filled. Since I had
  professional licence for Taxi, Buses and Trucks (financed my studies that
  way), I did some time on transportation support, when waiting for
  assignment. Finally I ended up as group leader for quality testing of
  electronic equipment/material deliveries. I would have loved to try or
  learn to drive a tank -:).

  Hakan


  At 10:42 AM 2/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:

  >- Original Message -
  >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >To: 
  >Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 01:21
  >Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >I'm sure that being able to drive a 62 ton M-1 Abrems, qualifies me to
drive
  >a 1 1/2 ton SUV.  :-P
  >
  >Greg H.
  >
  > >
  > >
  > > 2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
  > >  necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
  > >  they have a truck license or similar.
  > >
  >



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] Tanks Alot!

[Mark Foltarz]

Todd,

  Holy smokes did I find some killer tanks today.

  These things are completely enclosed stainless steel rectangular tanks.

 They have to  be at least 600 gallons.  Totally suited for methanol
reclamaition - there is a hatch on top and a few fittings.

  Easily modifiable to add heat - or heck just build a fire underneath! 

  Slight slope to drain on the the side. 

  $600 wait a month and they will be $300

 Mark

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[biofuel] Re: National Tribal Renewable Sustainability Conference

[murdoch]

Sounds like it will be really neat.  Here in San Diego I've always thought that
it would be great to see some PV implemented on much of the tribes' land, but
perhaps more of this is happening than I'm aware.  It's my perception that many
of the tribes, as a whole, are making some money from the casino business.  In
so doing they seem to be erecting some pretty impressive structures.  I wonder
if these wouldn't be an opportunity, if they were designed-in from the get-go,
to put some solar on the roofs or nearby, perhaps even in a super-attractive
solar-shingles way rather than in any way that might detract from a high-profile
in-the-public-eye design.  San Diego as a whole has not been that smart about
taking advantage of all the solar energy incident here.  At least, I haven't
seen it, although the mayor says he is gung-ho for it, and at the same time we
were among the first hit by the electricity crisis... so you'd think we'd be
busy hedging our bets and building capacity.



On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:11:47 -, you wrote:

>The Council of Energy Resource Tribes (CERT) is holding the National 
>Tribal Sustainability Conference, April 15, 16, 2003, in 
>Albuquerque, New Mexico.  Go to www.certredearth.com for more info 
>and registration.  CERT is an intertribal consortia assisting tribes 
>with the prudent development of tribal Natural resources.  This 
>conference has a particular focus on Biomass(biodiesel, ethanol!!), 
>Hydropower, Renewable(solar, geothermal, wind, and PV), and 
>Tribal utility formation.  This conference will bring together 
>tribes, government and industry.
>
>
>
>
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[biofuel] cheapo ph meter

[kirk]

http://www.aquaticeco.com/aquatic1v1/itempg.icl?orderidentifier=ID1039405208
50253023D&eflag=0&iteminfo4=0&itmid=9217&p

Mini pH Checker

 Inexpensive yet accurate, this small pH pen supplies fast and accurate
readings. Microprocessor-based, it is great for both fresh and saltwater
aquariums and garden ponds. A standard combination pH electrode is included.
Measures pH from 0.00 to 14.00. Batteries are included. Weighs only 2.7 oz.
Six-month warranty.

Single Unit Price: $18.00

Part No.:  98103 - Mini pH Checker


Another vendor

http://www.enasco.com/prod/ProductDetail?sku=SB22540M&title=#


 Checker® Electronic pH Tester
At the cost of a few rolls of pH litmus paper, you can have the latest
electronic pH tester! The lightweight, pocket-size pH tester gives fast and
accurate pH readings on a large liquid crystal display. Accurate to ±0.2 pH
and features a range from 0 to 14 pH with 0.01 resolution. Battery life of
3,000 hours. Meter comes complete with its own rugged plastic, screw-type,
combination electrode; two 1.4V batteries; and instructions.

Large view  To view the PDF files you will need Adobe's Acrobat Reader.

Product
Number Description Price Addl. Order Info Order
SB22540M Checker® Electronic pH Tester 30.00

See Also:
Product
Number Description

SB28992M Checker® Electronic pH Tester - pH 7 and pH 10 Calibration
Solutions
SB28993M 5 Packets of Calibration Preparation Solution (20 ml) for Portable
pH Meter


Their home page is http://www.enasco.com/prod/Home
They have scales as well I should think.
Kirk



-Original Message-
From: Doug Allbright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:51 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales


Ed

just call your local Scientific supplies store they will have it. I just did
about ten minutes ago and I am waiting on a call back.

Doug


-Original Message-
From: ehall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:53 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales



On a similar note, anyone know where to get an inexpensive digital PH
meter??

Thanks,
Ed




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 .




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---
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Re: [biofuel] Tanks Alot!

[Appal Energy]

Mark,

A pot still is okay, but not as efficient as a "thin film" evaporator.
Taking something like your box tanks and placing  several old stainless H20
fire extinguishers inside would work well.

Run an inlet for hot H20 into each fire extinquisher and a return outlet,
hook up a hot water circulating pump capable of at least 180*F, and then
install drip rings around the dome of each extinquisher. The alcohol laden
biodiesel or glycerin would flow through the drip rings, down the sides of
the cylinders in a thin film and out the tank's bottom port.

The evaporated alcohol would migrate out the top of the tank and through a
condensor for recollection.

Due to the short duration that the film is on the cylinder, it would
probably be wise to elevate the reactor temp to ~150*F (after draining the
glycerin layer) prior to running the biodiesel through the drip rings. The
biodiesel return line could also be used as a heat transfer medium to other
steps of the process, whether it be pre-heat for the acid side of an
acid/base, WVO heating and settling or a fuel finishing tank (drying tank).

Anyway, the idea is to create as thin a film as possible to get as much
alcohol as possible exposed to the alcohol's evaporative temperature within
the cylinders. Most thin films have drums that are continually cleaned of
buildup. I could be wrong, but I don't think the buildup on the cylinders is
going to be a great deal if any over time, not when you consider the solvent
characteristics of the biodiesel and the relatively low operating temp.

Stainless totes like you've found would be very simple to convert, presuming
the manway/cleanout is sufficient enough diameter to skinny through. And
even if not, they could still (a little evaporative humour?) make decent
reactors or wash tanks for 300 gallon batches...just about the right match
for a 400 gallon horizontal stainless dairy tank converted into a reactor.

Thanks for the heads up. Let me know what gives with them. I could probably
put a few to work this spring.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: "Mark Foltarz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:10 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Tanks Alot!


> Todd,
>
>   Holy smokes did I find some killer tanks today.
>
>   These things are completely enclosed stainless steel rectangular tanks.
>
>  They have to  be at least 600 gallons.  Totally suited for methanol
> reclamaition - there is a hatch on top and a few fittings.
>
>   Easily modifiable to add heat - or heck just build a fire underneath!
>
>   Slight slope to drain on the the side.
>
>   $600 wait a month and they will be $300
>
>  Mark
>
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation!

[robert luis rabello]

MH wrote:

>   Thank you for the link!!
>

No problem!  I find it really interesting that I read the same Bible, pray 
to the same Jesus and worship faithfully, yet I do not find the
same justification for violence in the scriptures that was expressed by fellow 
believers in that news story.  I'm certain that many devout
Muslims have the same experience I do.

>  Mr. Bush: I'm Coming for You with Love
>  by Robert Rabbin



>   One more thing. Do not underestimate the power of love. Do not add this
>  mistake to the long and growing list of mistakes you have already made.
>  Do not think love is weak, or passive, or fearful. Love created the
>  universe. Love is a power louder than missiles, more powerful than fear,
>  more conquering than hate. Love cannot be stopped, but you can be. And
>  you will be, because I am coming to stop you with love.
>

Powerful words, indeed!  After the 11 September atrocity I felt an 
unspeakable rage against its perpetrators and the people who aided them.
I came home to B.C. from Baltimore the following weekend and told my wife that 
other citizens I'd spoken to were in an equally ugly mood.  It's
not a pleasant thought to consider that we have more WOMD than everyone else in 
the world, along with very effective delivery systems.

It took several weeks for me to find the courage to forgive, and I must 
admit that I still struggle with this.  If Mr. Bush made a
convincing linkage between what happened that September and the need to inflict 
misery on Iraq, I'd support him.  The evidence, however, doesn't
convince me.  All I see is madness.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782



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Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears

[greg]

where? i was in 3AD
-Original Message-
From: Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears


>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 01:21
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] SUV question - Silk Purses out of Sows Ears
>
>
>
>
>I'm sure that being able to drive a 62 ton M-1 Abrems, qualifies me to
drive
>a 1 1/2 ton SUV.  :-P
>
>Greg H.
>
>>
>>
>> 2. That it is ensured that people who drives them have the
>>  necessary special knowledge to do so, by demanding that
>>  they have a truck license or similar.
>>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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