Re: [biofuels-biz] Separation of water from WVO
The water separation process sounds interesting... This does seem like strategic problem to alleviate, although water condensing in-tank will still pose the problem later on. The less water at the outset the better. Could you send me a picture of the apparatus? Thanks, Ben - Original Message - From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Separation of water from WVO > Hello all, > This subject is also posted on [EMAIL PROTECTED], but I > thought I'd post it here too. Any feedback would be appreciated. > > This problem is something I noticed right away when I started > reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated with > the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical > engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the emulsified > oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80% > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl, better > known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by > even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've already > done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how fast > you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, and I'm > hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low, saving > both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a > picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested. > > Terry Lohnes > > > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy No Snore & Get a Good Night's Sleep. Natural Oral Spray -- $24.95 (1 bottle, 1 month supply, with sweet almond oil, eucalyptus oil & more). http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2881&lp=h515.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/2oMABA/nuYGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
Yes, but what does that have to do with the point I was trying to make? The point to be seen here is get ready for a price spike that will equal or exceed 2000-2001 winter. There will not be any hydrogen vehicles or other hydrogen uses like heating out there for a while that will be anything the average person can use. It is simply too new. Bob Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Bob, MM >Real one; spoof version; it makes little difference at this point in time. It was posted as one of three linked messages - did you read the other two? Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/26546 and Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/26548 Best Keith >There is only one goal presently in mind by those who hold the >product. Adjust the price to a proper place to adequately supply me >with the profit I want!! > >Those who are wise enough to see through this will be able to supply >themselves with alternate energy systems, reguardless of the type, >to coast through this next 3 or 4 years. Those who don't will pay a >hefty price for any energy they want or need for themselves. > >Every individual will have varying and different needs when it comes >to energy. Preparing one's self to cover the biggest majority and >purchase the smaller needs will win. > >Remember years back for most of us when we went out and gathered our >winter's supply of wood for heat? OK, that's not a good thing for >the air today but we have new better ways; solar, biofuels, wind, >water, tides, you name it and that's the goal we need to acheive. > >Bob > > >murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 >00:13:44 +0900, you wrote: > > >The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: > >http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 > >Since Hydrogen is presently made from Natural Gas, although >theoretically in the future we will have a better diversity of >sources, I wonder how the short-term looks for it, since we are lining >up to have a crisis in Natural Gas supply. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Oral Sprays for Fast Results and Greater Absorption. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2880 http://us.click.yahoo.com/3oMABA/muYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] SVO mixed with fossil diesel
Hi Dan where is 'here'? I put used j-cloth filtered brown sludge in my merc and it runs fine in summer. I have made a heated fuel filter which works ok in colder weather I have stopped making bio-D even tho I have 200 ltrs of methanol to use up! nick near Derby, UK Dan Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi, > >I am writing to see the feasability of mixing small >amounts of SVO with fossil diesel. ÊI am talking like >5-10 percent. ÊI have done experiments, and it stays >mixed, but will it combust properly without being >heated up, as long as it is mixed with diesel? ÊIt is >summer here and quite hot, so the oil is pretty >thinned out. ÊSecondly, what dose refined oil mean? >IS the stuff you buy in buckets at the store refined >and degummed? ÊLastly, what of using small amounts of >filtered, dewatered WVO mixed with fossil diesel, >maybe 2 liters per tank? ÊWill that work as well, or >should that be heated? ÊI tried making some biodiesel, >but methanol is so damn expensive here. ÊI like >biodiesel and will go back to it when I move away from >here. ÊBut for now, I wanted to see the possibility of >using either a SVO mix or a WVO mix, or maybe both. >Any ideas? ÊThanks, > >Dan Ross > >__ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > -- . __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Naturally Painless Spray, Coral Calcium, No Snore, EZ Appetite Suppressant. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2882 http://us.click.yahoo.com/yoMABA/ruYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Big Sugar
Keith, Thanks for this. Being a large Natural Foods company, we have been buying Florida Crystals Organic sugar (ca 56,000# last year) Reading this makes me sick. We will be re-evaluating our organic sweetener supplier situation imimmediately. Mark Osborne VP Operations > > > hthttp/wmemagazineom/jujulyugust_2003/0703feat2.hthtml> > Big Sugar > It isisn just development that's harming Florida's Everglades: Large, > > powerful and well-connected sugar companies are doing their part, > too. Can they be stopped? By Ted Levin > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Oral Sprays for Fast Results and Greater Absorption. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2880 http://us.click.yahoo.com/3oMABA/muYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO mixed with fossil diesel
Hi Dan I am writing to see the feasability of mixing small amounts of SVO with fossil diesel. Me and my pals have a bit of experience with mixes... 86 Land Rover 110 (Ex Brit Army) on 50/50 for 2000km. No mods. No problems. 95 LR Discovery started on 50/50 with no mods. Bad cold start. Now using 20L diesel / 19L SVO / 1L petrol. No probs so far - 5 tanks used to date. 83 VW Golf. Heated filter + Heat exchanger + oversize fuel pipe. Started on 100% VO but starting probs. Running now on 50/50 blend for 1500 km with no probs. 96 Merc 124 series (no turbo). Mods as golf apart from an extra fuel pump mounted at tank. Running on 100%VO for 9,000 Km. No probs. The kit we use is from biodrive of Switzerland - high quality. The additive also from Biodrive. www.biodrive.ch We're in S Spain and so have the advantage of the hot climate. We let the VO separate for 5 days before removing the clear oil It is then passed through a 1 micron filter and on into the 500 L store - from where the vehicles are filled. Good luck James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/nHYuCC/ca0FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
>Every individual will have varying and different needs when it comes to >energy. Preparing one's self to cover the biggest majority and purchase the >smaller needs will win. I don't disagree that this would be a good time for individuals to think ahead and ask what he or she can do to think outside the box and provide for his or her needs going forward. If a crisis in nat. gas or electricity pricing does emerge, thinking ahead now could help one a bit. Just an example. > >Remember years back for most of us when we went out and gathered our winter's >supply of wood for heat? OK, that's not a good thing for the air today but we >have new better ways; solar, biofuels, wind, water, tides, you name it and >that's the goal we need to acheive. > >Bob I don't see much wrong with gathering some firewood and using it, depending on where you're taking it from. Its dirtying of the air is something that seems kind of natural. I guess I just don't understand. Man's been burning wood for thousands of years. Modest use at this point is just the same utilization of a renewable resource? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Oral Sprays for Fast Results and Greater Absorption. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2880 http://us.click.yahoo.com/3oMABA/muYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Fwd: Neoteric at Solwest!]
> > >> Hi all: >> >> Just a note that we'll be at Solwest in John Day, Oregon this year - >> coming right up this weekend >> >> See http://www.solwest.org >> >> Panel discussion on biofuels, and talking around the live >> install/demo of the G3 SVO Max kit. >> >> I'll be there with my "new" ride...an 88 Vanagon Weekender with a >> freshly installed 1.9TD. (Have to go to >> http://www.fastforward.ca >> , up in Quesnel, BC to pick it up, tomorrow...about 12 hours on the >> Greyhound! Then come home, get ready, and head straight south, 12 >> hour or so by Vanagon...to John Day! Yikes! ) Welcome, Craig and Anne! As of August there is a major change happening in our company...better service and lower shipping costs/faster shipping/no import costs, etc. for our USA customers!!!.we have VERY MUCH appreciated the support we have received so far from customers in the USA! Now we can offer even better service and more competitive prices in that country >> >> *Craig Reece and Anne Bush, of Berkeley, California, who are >> taking >> over Henry Mackaay's half of the company, will be at Solwest as well, >> and Craig will be on the panel discussion and assisting on the >> conversion. They'll be driving their Mercedes, with Neoteric >> conversion. *** >> >> Have a look at the program at the link above - this is a fun and >> informative event on all aspects of renewable energy! >> >> Hope to see you there! >> >> Edward Beggs >> Neoteric Biofuels Inc. >> http://www.biofuels.ca > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
Terry, No - I just read about lithium chloride being a drying agent a couple of days ago. They said nothing about how to use it. I made that part up and ran it up the flagpole. Calcium chloride is alot cheaper and available at the local farm feed store. It would be great if it could dry wvo. What is the process you use to dry wvo with calcium chloride. I gather from your email that you mix it with the wvo and it facilitates seperation. Then you drain it off before going to the reeactor. I'll try it' thanks Fred On Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003, at 00:44 US/Eastern, lohnestd wrote: > Fred, > have you seen this method work? I would think the CaCl would go into > solution as it absorbed any water in the oil, then that salt > solution would be carried into the reactor with your clean oil. > Unless you drain the salt solution off before the Methanol and > catalyst is added, I think you'll still have a soap problem. > > Terry > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Hi >> is this anything like pouring your filtered wvo through a vertical > pvc >> pipe full of dry lithium chloride pellets on the way to the 200 > l. >> reactor? >> why is the calcium chloride in solution? >> I also would be interested in the picture. >> Thank You for offering. >> >> fred >> >> On Monday, Jul 21, 2003, at 10:28 US/Eastern, Brent S wrote: >> >>> I would be interested in the picture. I also am trying a > similar >>> process, >>> but using silica acrylate. >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:54:32 - Hello all, This problem is something I noticed right away when I started reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated > with the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the > emulsified oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation > of 80% soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl > salt solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl, > better known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've > already done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how > fast you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, > and I'm hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low, > saving both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested. Terry Lohnes --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or into the drains and landfillsin a big way!! > > Edward Beggs > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Appal Energy wrote: > >> In the United States WVO primarily goes towards animal feed as an >> energy >> quotient, the cosmetics industry, the oleo-chemicals industry in >> general and >> to third world countries as refined yellow grease for edible purposes. >> >> Todd Swearingen >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Christopher Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:28 PM >> Subject: RE: [biofuel] dewatering WVO >> >> >>> Hi Keith: >>> >>> Any idea what the recyclers do with WVO? I talked to a > couple of >> restaurants >>> and found out that there are people who buy their WVO. The >>> restaurants >>> don't have a clue what is done with the WVO. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Chris >>> >>> =>-Original Message- >>> =>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> =>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM >>> =>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >>> =>Subject: Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO >>> => >>> => >>> =>>Hey Kieth- >>> =>> >>> =>>Which restaurants did you learn not to eat at, and why? >>> =>> >>> =>>Best Regards, >>> =>> >>> =>>John D, in Ohio >>> => >>> => >>> =>Hello John >>> => >>> =>As a general rule we've found the cheaper the restaurant > the worse >>> =>the WVO - more abused, cooked longer and probably hotter before >>> being >>> =>renewed, higher FFA levels. Others say the same in other countries. >>> =>I'm sure there are exceptions but I've yet to find one. One real >>> =>cheap eatery in Chiba used quite a lot of oil but didn't > have any >>> WVO >>> =>for us - they used it all up! Ulp... I definitely wouldn't > eat >>> =>anything that'd been cooked in some of the WVO we've had, lethal I >>> =>reckon. As the prices rise so
[biofuel] Fwd: [Fwd: Neoteric at Solwest!]
> > >> Hi all: >> >> Just a note that we'll be at Solwest in John Day, Oregon this year - >> coming right up this weekend >> >> See http://www.solwest.org >> >> Panel discussion on biofuels, and talking around the live >> install/demo of the G3 SVO Max kit. >> >> I'll be there with my "new" ride...an 88 Vanagon Weekender with a >> freshly installed 1.9TD. (Have to go to >> http://www.fastforward.ca >> , up in Quesnel, BC to pick it up, tomorrow...about 12 hours on the >> Greyhound! Then come home, get ready, and head straight south, 12 >> hour or so by Vanagon...to John Day! Yikes! ) Welcome, Craig and Anne! As of August there is a major change happening in our company...better service and lower shipping costs/faster shipping/no import costs, etc. for our USA customers!!!.we have VERY MUCH appreciated the support we have received so far from customers in the USA! Now we can offer even better service and more competitive prices in that country >> >> *Craig Reece and Anne Bush, of Berkeley, California, who are >> taking >> over Henry Mackaay's half of the company, will be at Solwest as well, >> and Craig will be on the panel discussion and assisting on the >> conversion. They'll be driving their Mercedes, with Neoteric >> conversion. *** >> >> Have a look at the program at the link above - this is a fun and >> informative event on all aspects of renewable energy! >> >> Hope to see you there! >> >> Edward Beggs >> Neoteric Biofuels Inc. >> http://www.biofuels.ca > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] An Extract From Web Of Deceit By Mark Curtis
http://www.MediaLens.org/alerts/030603_Basic_Benevolence.html MEDIA LENS MEDIA ALERT 03rd June 2003 Basic Benevolence - An Extract From Web Of Deceit By Mark Curtis Introduction Mark Curtis first came to our attention with his extraordinary book, The Ambiguities of Power - British Foreign Policy Since 1945 (Zed Books, 1995). Using formerly secret government documents, Curtis demolished many of the myths surrounding British foreign policy. In 1953, for example, Britain sent a cruiser, two frigates and seven hundred troops to its colony, British Guiana, and overthrew a democratically elected government, the People's Progressive Party (PPP). The Colonial Secretary in the House of Commons explained in October 1953 that the PPP was "part of the deadly design to turn British Guiana into a totalitarian state dominated by communist ideas," such that Britain was "faced with part of the international communist conspiracy". Curtis revealed, however, that privately the British government's Commonwealth Relations Office stated in September 1953 that the PPP "was in fact elected to power on a mildly socialist programme, the implementation of which would have been in general of great value to the territory". The PPP's programme was, it noted, "no more extreme" than that of the British Labour party: "It contains none of the usual communist aims and it advocates industrial development through the encouragement of foreign capital." No matter, the propaganda paved the way for military intervention in pursuit of a ruthless hidden agenda. In 1964, The Latin American Bureau reported that, with the PPP out of the way in British Guiana, the sugar transnational Bookers was assured of "a remarkable degree of control over the economy, both through its dominant position in the sugar industry and through its interests in fisheries, cattle, timber, insurance, advertising, and retail commerce". In his foreword to Curtis's latest book, Web Of Deceit - Britain's Real Role in the World (Vintage, 2003), John Pilger writes: "Mark Curtis's brilliant, exciting and deeply disturbing book unwraps the whole package, layer by layer, piece by piece. Not since Noam Chomsky's Deterring Democracy, has there been such a disclosure, whose publication could not be more timely." Curtis demolishes the rhetoric behind the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, revealing how they fit a pattern, not of humanitarian intervention, but of control of 'Third World' natural resources and markets through the installation of US-friendly 'democratic structures'. No one who reads 'Web of Deceit' can doubt that Tony Blair has long been "duping" the British public. At the Labour party conference in 2001, Blair declared: "I tell you, if Rwanda happened again today as it did in 1994, when a million people were slaughtered in cold blood, we would have a moral duty to act." The media reported Blair's words without challenge, omitting to mention that the British government had +contributed+ to genocide in Rwanda, as Curtis points out: "Britain used its diplomatic weight to reduce severely a UN force that, according to military officers on the ground, could have prevented the killings. It then helped ensure the delay of other plans for intervention, which sent a direct green light to the murderers in Rwanda to continue. Britain also refused to provide the capability for other states to intervene, while blaming the lack of such capability on the UN." This information is publicly available, but mainstream media and the academic community have simply chosen to look the other way. Similar subservience to power can be seen regarding the murderous war in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), costing some four million lives. Curtis notes: "Britain sold arms to Zimbabwe, Namibia and Angola, who intervened to support the DRC regime, at the same time as supplying Uganda and Rwanda, who were fighting the DRC and its allies." The International Institute for Security Studies in South Africa has commented on the impact of British greed: "Britain is inflaming the situation by arming both sides." Such awful examples - which represent the norm, not exceptions - do not fit the exalted image of benign states wielding power in the defence of "all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom" (Bush), or in order to uphold "values of justice, tolerance and respect for all regardless of race, religion or creed" (Blair). We know only too well what a difficult and vitally important achievement it is for Mark Curtis to publish such an honest piece of work via a mainstream publisher. We strongly urge you to buy this book - a must-read, if ever there was one - and so support a rare and precious voice of dissent in our society. Best wishes David Edwards and David Cromwell Editors - Media Lens THE CONCEPT OF "BASIC BENEVOLENCE" By: Mark Curtis The ideological system promotes one key concept that underp
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
Hello Bob, MM >Real one; spoof version; it makes little difference at this point in time. It was posted as one of three linked messages - did you read the other two? Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/26546 and Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/26548 Best Keith >There is only one goal presently in mind by those who hold the >product. Adjust the price to a proper place to adequately supply me >with the profit I want!! > >Those who are wise enough to see through this will be able to supply >themselves with alternate energy systems, reguardless of the type, >to coast through this next 3 or 4 years. Those who don't will pay a >hefty price for any energy they want or need for themselves. > >Every individual will have varying and different needs when it comes >to energy. Preparing one's self to cover the biggest majority and >purchase the smaller needs will win. > >Remember years back for most of us when we went out and gathered our >winter's supply of wood for heat? OK, that's not a good thing for >the air today but we have new better ways; solar, biofuels, wind, >water, tides, you name it and that's the goal we need to acheive. > >Bob > > >murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 >00:13:44 +0900, you wrote: > > >The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: > >http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 > >Since Hydrogen is presently made from Natural Gas, although >theoretically in the future we will have a better diversity of >sources, I wonder how the short-term looks for it, since we are lining >up to have a crisis in Natural Gas supply. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
Real one; spoof version; it makes little difference at this point in time. There is only one goal presently in mind by those who hold the product. Adjust the price to a proper place to adequately supply me with the profit I want!! Those who are wise enough to see through this will be able to supply themselves with alternate energy systems, reguardless of the type, to coast through this next 3 or 4 years. Those who don't will pay a hefty price for any energy they want or need for themselves. Every individual will have varying and different needs when it comes to energy. Preparing one's self to cover the biggest majority and purchase the smaller needs will win. Remember years back for most of us when we went out and gathered our winter's supply of wood for heat? OK, that's not a good thing for the air today but we have new better ways; solar, biofuels, wind, water, tides, you name it and that's the goal we need to acheive. Bob murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:13:44 +0900, you wrote: >The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: >http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 Since Hydrogen is presently made from Natural Gas, although theoretically in the future we will have a better diversity of sources, I wonder how the short-term looks for it, since we are lining up to have a crisis in Natural Gas supply. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Naturally Painless Spray, Coral Calcium, No Snore, EZ Appetite Suppressant. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2882 http://us.click.yahoo.com/yoMABA/ruYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SVO mixed with fossil diesel
Hi, I am writing to see the feasability of mixing small amounts of SVO with fossil diesel. I am talking like 5-10 percent. I have done experiments, and it stays mixed, but will it combust properly without being heated up, as long as it is mixed with diesel? It is summer here and quite hot, so the oil is pretty thinned out. Secondly, what dose refined oil mean? IS the stuff you buy in buckets at the store refined and degummed? Lastly, what of using small amounts of filtered, dewatered WVO mixed with fossil diesel, maybe 2 liters per tank? Will that work as well, or should that be heated? I tried making some biodiesel, but methanol is so damn expensive here. I like biodiesel and will go back to it when I move away from here. But for now, I wanted to see the possibility of using either a SVO mix or a WVO mix, or maybe both. Any ideas? Thanks, Dan Ross __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Naturally Painless Spray, Coral Calcium, No Snore, EZ Appetite Suppressant. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2882 http://us.click.yahoo.com/yoMABA/ruYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Big Sugar
Good for making ethanol, if not for much else - but not when you do
it this way... Or not if you think that a gallon of ethanol made by
ADM from corn produced by industrial methods with heavy fossil-fuel
use isn't as much of a biofuel as it would be if you made it yourself
from corn grown with zero fossil-fuel use - grown like this maybe:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=12561&list=BIOFUEL
Re: large scale organic farming
Keith
http://www.emagazine.com/july-august_2003/0703feat2.html
Big Sugar
It isn't just development that's harming Florida's Everglades: Large,
powerful and well-connected sugar companies are doing their part,
too. Can they be stopped? By Ted Levin
FEATURE
Bitter Sweets
A Politically Connected Industry Devastates the Everglades
By Ted Levin
Staining an otherwise cerulean sky, oily black smoke billows a mile
high from more than half a dozen fires south of Lake Okeechobee. You
can see the smoke from West Palm Beach, like the exhalations of
detonated bombs. It is eerily quiet.
Sugar refining takes place not on family farms, but in huge,
chemical-intensive industrial operations.
© Brian Smith / Miami Herald
From the highway around the lake, from the outskirts of towns such as
Canal Point, Moore Haven and Harlem (where they hold the Miss Brown
Sugar Contest), sugarcane runs to the horizon, a ghostly replacement
of what was once sawgrass marshes. Flames rush through patches of
cane, burning off extraneous tassels and blades, leaving only the
sucrose-rich stalks. You can hear the fires cackle from the streets
of Clewiston, "America's Sweetest Town." Since 1931, it has been home
to the U.S. Sugar Corporation, one of the oldest and largest players
in the sugar industry, an industry that survives on our insatiable
appetite for things sweet and on political largesse. It is in fact
the industry that dictated the direction of the $8 billion Everglades
restoration project.
Last spring, in a bravura display of clout, the industry succeeded in
ramming a sweetheart deal through the Florida legislature that gives
Big Sugar more time to clean up its act. The measure,
enthusiastically signed by Governor Jeb Bush, pushes back a looming
2006 water cleanup deadline to 2016, and, even as amended in a
last-minute deal, gives sugar companies until 2017 to pay a cleanup
tax. "Big Sugar is not only raping the resource; it expects breakfast
in the morning," wrote Orlando Sentinel columnist Mike Thomas.
SWEET DEALS
A region larger than the state of Rhode Island, the upper quarter of
the original Everglades is more than 700,000 acres of cane fields,
winter vegetables and a few sod farms. It is officially called the
Everglades Agricultural Area (EAA), but it is known simply as Big
Sugar. Every fourth teaspoon of sugar consumed in the United States
is grown here. "Big" stands for it's political power, hard to
explain, given its relative insignificance on the global economic
stage.
Between 1988 and 1994 Big Sugar made more than $5.5 million in
campaign contributions, far out of proportion to its size; in 1999
sugar baron Alfonso ("Alfy") Fanjul Jr. hosted a $25,000-a-plate
dinner to support the Florida Democratic Party; 60 guests attended,
including Bill Clinton. In the agricultural sector, only the tobacco
industry spends more on campaign contributions and lobbying efforts.
During a 1994 Florida statehouse debate on an environmental
referendum that would have taxed farmers a penny for every pound of
sugar milled in the EAA, more than 30 industry lobbyists convened in
Tallahassee.
Alfy and Pepe Fanjul never intended to farm in Florida. After four
generations in Cuba, where their family empire included 150,000 acres
of cane, 10 sugar mills and three alcohol distilleries, their
businesses were nationalized by Fidel Castro in 1959. Moving from
Cuba to Palm Beach in 1960, Alfonso Fanjul Sr. and some fellow exiles
bought a 4,000-acre parcel of farmland in the Everglades for $640,000.
Sugarcane was hand cut for hundreds of years, but these days most
cutting is mechanized, reducing the work force.
© Ted Levin
Florida offered low taxes for land and water, and at an annual
expense of more than $50 million to the American taxpayers,
Washington kept the Everglades drained in the wet season and
irrigated in the dry. In 1970 the Fanjuls created Flo-Sun. After the
death of their father 10 years later, Alfy and Pepe inherited the
business. By 1990 the Fanjuls farmed 180,000 acres in the Everglades
and 160,000 acres in the Dominican Republic. Today, their farms and
four mills produce about a million tons of raw sugar a year; their
refinery markets white and organic sugar directly to consumers under
the name Florida Crystals.
So pronounced is the Fanjuls' effect on regional politics and
Everglades issues that the movie Striptease, in part a satire of the
sugar industry, based on Carl Hiaasen's novel, lampoons brothers
Joaquin and Wilbur Rojo, who bear
[biofuels-biz] Big Sugar
Good for making ethanol, if not for much else - but not when you do
it this way... Or not if you think that a gallon of ethanol made by
ADM from corn produced by industrial methods with heavy fossil-fuel
use isn't as much of a biofuel as it would be if you made it yourself
from corn grown with zero fossil-fuel use - grown like this maybe:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=12561&list=BIOFUEL
Re: large scale organic farming
Keith
http://www.emagazine.com/july-august_2003/0703feat2.html
Big Sugar
It isn't just development that's harming Florida's Everglades: Large,
powerful and well-connected sugar companies are doing their part,
too. Can they be stopped? By Ted Levin
FEATURE
Bitter Sweets
A Politically Connected Industry Devastates the Everglades
By Ted Levin
Staining an otherwise cerulean sky, oily black smoke billows a mile
high from more than half a dozen fires south of Lake Okeechobee. You
can see the smoke from West Palm Beach, like the exhalations of
detonated bombs. It is eerily quiet.
Sugar refining takes place not on family farms, but in huge,
chemical-intensive industrial operations.
© Brian Smith / Miami Herald
From the highway around the lake, from the outskirts of towns such as
Canal Point, Moore Haven and Harlem (where they hold the Miss Brown
Sugar Contest), sugarcane runs to the horizon, a ghostly replacement
of what was once sawgrass marshes. Flames rush through patches of
cane, burning off extraneous tassels and blades, leaving only the
sucrose-rich stalks. You can hear the fires cackle from the streets
of Clewiston, "America's Sweetest Town." Since 1931, it has been home
to the U.S. Sugar Corporation, one of the oldest and largest players
in the sugar industry, an industry that survives on our insatiable
appetite for things sweet and on political largesse. It is in fact
the industry that dictated the direction of the $8 billion Everglades
restoration project.
Last spring, in a bravura display of clout, the industry succeeded in
ramming a sweetheart deal through the Florida legislature that gives
Big Sugar more time to clean up its act. The measure,
enthusiastically signed by Governor Jeb Bush, pushes back a looming
2006 water cleanup deadline to 2016, and, even as amended in a
last-minute deal, gives sugar companies until 2017 to pay a cleanup
tax. "Big Sugar is not only raping the resource; it expects breakfast
in the morning," wrote Orlando Sentinel columnist Mike Thomas.
SWEET DEALS
A region larger than the state of Rhode Island, the upper quarter of
the original Everglades is more than 700,000 acres of cane fields,
winter vegetables and a few sod farms. It is officially called the
Everglades Agricultural Area (EAA), but it is known simply as Big
Sugar. Every fourth teaspoon of sugar consumed in the United States
is grown here. "Big" stands for it's political power, hard to
explain, given its relative insignificance on the global economic
stage.
Between 1988 and 1994 Big Sugar made more than $5.5 million in
campaign contributions, far out of proportion to its size; in 1999
sugar baron Alfonso ("Alfy") Fanjul Jr. hosted a $25,000-a-plate
dinner to support the Florida Democratic Party; 60 guests attended,
including Bill Clinton. In the agricultural sector, only the tobacco
industry spends more on campaign contributions and lobbying efforts.
During a 1994 Florida statehouse debate on an environmental
referendum that would have taxed farmers a penny for every pound of
sugar milled in the EAA, more than 30 industry lobbyists convened in
Tallahassee.
Alfy and Pepe Fanjul never intended to farm in Florida. After four
generations in Cuba, where their family empire included 150,000 acres
of cane, 10 sugar mills and three alcohol distilleries, their
businesses were nationalized by Fidel Castro in 1959. Moving from
Cuba to Palm Beach in 1960, Alfonso Fanjul Sr. and some fellow exiles
bought a 4,000-acre parcel of farmland in the Everglades for $640,000.
Sugarcane was hand cut for hundreds of years, but these days most
cutting is mechanized, reducing the work force.
© Ted Levin
Florida offered low taxes for land and water, and at an annual
expense of more than $50 million to the American taxpayers,
Washington kept the Everglades drained in the wet season and
irrigated in the dry. In 1970 the Fanjuls created Flo-Sun. After the
death of their father 10 years later, Alfy and Pepe inherited the
business. By 1990 the Fanjuls farmed 180,000 acres in the Everglades
and 160,000 acres in the Dominican Republic. Today, their farms and
four mills produce about a million tons of raw sugar a year; their
refinery markets white and organic sugar directly to consumers under
the name Florida Crystals.
So pronounced is the Fanjuls' effect on regional politics and
Everglades issues that the movie Striptease, in part a satire of the
sugar industry, based on Carl Hiaasen's novel, lampoons brothers
Joaquin and Wilbur Rojo, who bear
[biofuel] ethanol news
update on Australian situation: http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/weekly/newsnat-22jul2003-11.htm http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s907275.htm (some of the other headlines on this had a problem with coming through). New Mexico e-85 station opening http://www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=4728 (these stations are nice wonder why it took so many years to open just a couple in each state). Court Ruling on California ethanol use looks like a problem, though I can't get through legalese very well: http://www.metnews.com/articles/davi071803.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] ethanol news
update on Australian situation: http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/weekly/newsnat-22jul2003-11.htm http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s907275.htm (some of the other headlines on this had a problem with coming through). New Mexico e-85 station opening http://www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=4728 (these stations are nice wonder why it took so many years to open just a couple in each state). Court Ruling on California ethanol use looks like a problem, though I can't get through legalese very well: http://www.metnews.com/articles/davi071803.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:13:44 +0900, you wrote: >The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: >http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 Since Hydrogen is presently made from Natural Gas, although theoretically in the future we will have a better diversity of sources, I wonder how the short-term looks for it, since we are lining up to have a crisis in Natural Gas supply. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:13:44 +0900, you wrote: >The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: >http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 Since Hydrogen is presently made from Natural Gas, although theoretically in the future we will have a better diversity of sources, I wonder how the short-term looks for it, since we are lining up to have a crisis in Natural Gas supply. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/art7516.php
Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer
A Few Basics About Hydrogen
by Amory B. Lovins
The potential cost-effective windpower in the Dakotas could make as
much hydrogen as the world now uses-enough, if used in efficient
fuel-cell vehicles, to displace all oil now used by U.S. highway
vehicles.
If there were no oil in Iraq, would we have just fought a war there?
The Administration cited weapons of mass destruction as the main
casus belli, but it cannot be denied that U.S. interest and policies
in the region are influenced, and perceived to be influenced, by our
interest in oil. Yet, just as our transportation fuels have
transitioned from clunky, awkward solids to easy-to-store liquids
(coal to oil) during the past two hundred years, they are likely to
transition again, from liquids to gases. The most likely candidate to
power our transportation devices of the future is the simplest, most
abundant gas-clean, efficient hydrogen.
The chairs of eight major oil and car companies have said the world
is entering the oil endgame and the start of the Hydrogen Era. A
Shell planning scenario in 2001 envisaged a radical, China-led
leapfrog to hydrogen (now clearly underway), making world oil use
stagnate until 2020 and then fall. President Bush's 2003 State of the
Union message further emphasized the commitment to developing
hydrogen-fuel-cell cars he'd announced a year earlier (FreedomCAR).
Yet many diverse authors have lately criticized hydrogen. Some call
it a smokescreen to hide White House opposition to raising car
efficiency using conventional technology, or fear that working on
hydrogen would divert effort from rather than complement renewable
energy deployment/adoption. Some simply presume that if this
President believes something, it must not be true. Most reflect
errors meriting a tutorial on basic hydrogen facts. But before I
discuss the transition to hydrogen, here are four key points about H2
that are not always articulated:
1) Hydrogen makes up about 75 percent of the known universe, but is
not an energy source like oil, coal, wind, or sun. Rather, it is an
energy carrier-a molecule that, like electricity, can carry useful
energy to users. Hydrogen is an especially useful carrier because
like oil and gas, but unlike electricity, it can be stored in large
amounts.
2) The reason hydrogen isn't an energy source is that it's almost
never found by itself, the way oil and gas are. Instead, it must
first be freed from chemical compounds in which it's bound, using
heat and catalysts to "reform" hydrocarbons or carbohydrates,
electricity to "electrolyze" water, or other methods, including
experimental processes based on light, plasmas, or microorganisms.
All devices that produce hydrogen on a small scale, at or near the
customer, are collectively called "hydrogen appliances."
3) Over two-thirds of the fossil-fuel atoms burned in the world today
are hydrogen. The debate is about whether getting rid of the last
third (the carbon), and even its combustion ("uninventing fire"),
could be more profitable and attractive than burning both the carbon
and the hydrogen.
4) Hydrogen is the lightest molecule, eight times lighter than
natural gas. Per unit of energy, it weighs 64 percent less than
gasoline or 61 percent less than natural gas: 2.2 pounds of hydrogen
has (within two percent) the same energy as one U.S. gallon of
gasoline, which weighs 6.2 pounds. Conversely, hydrogen is bulky-per
unit volume, hydrogen gas contains only 30 percent as much energy as
natural gas, and even at 170 times atmospheric pressure (170 bar),
only six percent as much energy as gasoline.
So much for the basics. Now for the currently prevalent myths:
1. A whole hydrogen industry would need to be developed from scratch.
Wrong. Hydrogen manufacture and use is already a large and mature
global industry. At least five percent of U.S. natural gas output is
currently converted into industrial hydrogen, half of which is used
in refineries-mainly to make gasoline and diesel fuel. Globally,
about 50 million metric tons of hydrogen is now made for industrial
use, about 3-5 times America's consumption. Nearly all hydrogen is
extracted ("reformed") from fossil fuels, mainly natural gas, because
that's cheaper than electrolysis unless you have extremely cheap
electricity (generally well under two cents per kilowatt-hour), or
unless the hydrogen is a byproduct (about two percent comes from
electrolytic chlorine production).
2. Hydrogen is too volatile and explosive to use as a fuel.
Wrong. Although all fuels are hazardous, hydrogen's hazards are
different from and generally more easily managed than those of
hydrocarbon fuels. It's 14.4 times lighter than air, four times more
diffusive than natural gas, and 12 times more diffusive than
gasoline-so leaking hydrogen rapidly rises away from its source.
Also, it needs at least four times the concent
[biofuels-biz] Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/art7516.php
Amory B. Lovins's Hydrogen Primer
A Few Basics About Hydrogen
by Amory B. Lovins
The potential cost-effective windpower in the Dakotas could make as
much hydrogen as the world now uses-enough, if used in efficient
fuel-cell vehicles, to displace all oil now used by U.S. highway
vehicles.
If there were no oil in Iraq, would we have just fought a war there?
The Administration cited weapons of mass destruction as the main
casus belli, but it cannot be denied that U.S. interest and policies
in the region are influenced, and perceived to be influenced, by our
interest in oil. Yet, just as our transportation fuels have
transitioned from clunky, awkward solids to easy-to-store liquids
(coal to oil) during the past two hundred years, they are likely to
transition again, from liquids to gases. The most likely candidate to
power our transportation devices of the future is the simplest, most
abundant gas-clean, efficient hydrogen.
The chairs of eight major oil and car companies have said the world
is entering the oil endgame and the start of the Hydrogen Era. A
Shell planning scenario in 2001 envisaged a radical, China-led
leapfrog to hydrogen (now clearly underway), making world oil use
stagnate until 2020 and then fall. President Bush's 2003 State of the
Union message further emphasized the commitment to developing
hydrogen-fuel-cell cars he'd announced a year earlier (FreedomCAR).
Yet many diverse authors have lately criticized hydrogen. Some call
it a smokescreen to hide White House opposition to raising car
efficiency using conventional technology, or fear that working on
hydrogen would divert effort from rather than complement renewable
energy deployment/adoption. Some simply presume that if this
President believes something, it must not be true. Most reflect
errors meriting a tutorial on basic hydrogen facts. But before I
discuss the transition to hydrogen, here are four key points about H2
that are not always articulated:
1) Hydrogen makes up about 75 percent of the known universe, but is
not an energy source like oil, coal, wind, or sun. Rather, it is an
energy carrier-a molecule that, like electricity, can carry useful
energy to users. Hydrogen is an especially useful carrier because
like oil and gas, but unlike electricity, it can be stored in large
amounts.
2) The reason hydrogen isn't an energy source is that it's almost
never found by itself, the way oil and gas are. Instead, it must
first be freed from chemical compounds in which it's bound, using
heat and catalysts to "reform" hydrocarbons or carbohydrates,
electricity to "electrolyze" water, or other methods, including
experimental processes based on light, plasmas, or microorganisms.
All devices that produce hydrogen on a small scale, at or near the
customer, are collectively called "hydrogen appliances."
3) Over two-thirds of the fossil-fuel atoms burned in the world today
are hydrogen. The debate is about whether getting rid of the last
third (the carbon), and even its combustion ("uninventing fire"),
could be more profitable and attractive than burning both the carbon
and the hydrogen.
4) Hydrogen is the lightest molecule, eight times lighter than
natural gas. Per unit of energy, it weighs 64 percent less than
gasoline or 61 percent less than natural gas: 2.2 pounds of hydrogen
has (within two percent) the same energy as one U.S. gallon of
gasoline, which weighs 6.2 pounds. Conversely, hydrogen is bulky-per
unit volume, hydrogen gas contains only 30 percent as much energy as
natural gas, and even at 170 times atmospheric pressure (170 bar),
only six percent as much energy as gasoline.
So much for the basics. Now for the currently prevalent myths:
1. A whole hydrogen industry would need to be developed from scratch.
Wrong. Hydrogen manufacture and use is already a large and mature
global industry. At least five percent of U.S. natural gas output is
currently converted into industrial hydrogen, half of which is used
in refineries-mainly to make gasoline and diesel fuel. Globally,
about 50 million metric tons of hydrogen is now made for industrial
use, about 3-5 times America's consumption. Nearly all hydrogen is
extracted ("reformed") from fossil fuels, mainly natural gas, because
that's cheaper than electrolysis unless you have extremely cheap
electricity (generally well under two cents per kilowatt-hour), or
unless the hydrogen is a byproduct (about two percent comes from
electrolytic chlorine production).
2. Hydrogen is too volatile and explosive to use as a fuel.
Wrong. Although all fuels are hazardous, hydrogen's hazards are
different from and generally more easily managed than those of
hydrocarbon fuels. It's 14.4 times lighter than air, four times more
diffusive than natural gas, and 12 times more diffusive than
gasoline-so leaking hydrogen rapidly rises away from its source.
Also, it needs at least four times the concent
[biofuel] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/17_fuels.shtml Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert By Robert Sanders, Media Relations | 17 July 2003 BERKELEY - As politicians and the public leap aboard the hydrogen fuel bandwagon, a University of California, Berkeley, energy expert suggests we all step back and take a critical look at the technology and consider simpler, cheaper options. In a paper appearing in the July 18 issue of Science magazine, Alex Farrell, assistant professor of energy and resources at UC Berkeley, and David Keith, associate professor of engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University, present various short- and long-term strategies that they say would achieve the same results as switching from gasoline-powered vehicles to hydrogen cars. "Hydrogen cars are a poor short-term strategy, and it's not even clear that they are a good idea in the long term," said Farrell. "Because the prospects for hydrogen cars are so uncertain, we need to think carefully before we invest all this money and all this public effort in one area." Farrell and Keith compared the costs of developing fuel cell vehicles to the costs of other strategies for achieving the same environmental and economic goals. "There are three reasons you might think hydrogen would be a good thing to use as a transportation fuel - it can reduce air pollution, slow global climate change and reduce dependence on oil imports - but for each one there is something else you could do that would probably work better, work faster and be cheaper," Farrell said. President George W. Bush has proposed a federally funded, five-year, $1.7 billion FreedomCAR and Fuel Initiative to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, a hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies. Several announced candidates for president have also proposed major research efforts to develop hydrogen-fueled vehicles and technologies to produce, transport and store the hydrogen, while many scientists have praised the initiative. For many people, the attraction of hydrogen is that it produces no pollution or greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. For others, the attraction is that hydrogen is a research program, not a regulation, and that some hydrogen-related research will also help develop better gasoline-powered cars. One problem, said Farrell, an expert on energy and environment issues, is that this glosses over the issue of where the hydrogen comes from. Current methods of producing hydrogen from oil and coal produce substantial carbon dioxide. Unless and until this carbon can be captured and stored, renewable (wind or solar) and nuclear power, with their attendant problems of supply and waste, are the only means of producing hydrogen without also producing greenhouse gases. In addition, Farrell points out that setting up a completely new infrastructure to distribute hydrogen would cost at least $5,000 per vehicle. Transporting, storing and distributing a gaseous fuel as opposed to a liquid raises many new problems. More billions of dollars will be needed to develop hydrogen fuel cells that can match the performance of today's gasoline engines, he said. The benefits might be worth the costs of fuel-cell development and creating a new infrastructure, however, if air pollution, greenhouse gases and imported petroleum could not be reduced in other ways. But they can, said Farrell. Improvements to current cars and current environmental rules are more than 100 times cheaper than hydrogen cars at reducing air pollution. And for several decades, the most cost-effective method to reduce oil imports and CO2 emissions from cars will be to increase fuel efficiency, the two scientists found. "You could get a significant reduction in petroleum consumption pretty inexpensively by raising the fuel economy standard or raising fuel prices, or both, which is probably the cheapest strategy," Farrell said. "This would actually have no net cost or possibly even a negative cost - buying less fuel would save more money than the price of the high-efficiency cars. The vehicles would still be large enough for Americans and they would still be safe." Technologies are now on the shelf to achieve better fuel efficiency, he said. All that's lacking are economic incentives to encourage auto makers to make and drivers to buy fuel-efficient cars. "Automobile manufacturers don't need to invest in anything fancy - a wide number of technologies are already on the shelf," he said, quoting, among other studies, a 2002 report by the National Academy of Sciences. "The cost would be trivial compared to the changes needed to go to a hydrogen car." Petroleum substitutes like ethanol that can be used in today's vehicl
[biofuels-biz] Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert
The real one, not the spoof version - the Science Magazine link is here: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/301/5631/315 http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/17_fuels.shtml Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert By Robert Sanders, Media Relations | 17 July 2003 BERKELEY - As politicians and the public leap aboard the hydrogen fuel bandwagon, a University of California, Berkeley, energy expert suggests we all step back and take a critical look at the technology and consider simpler, cheaper options. In a paper appearing in the July 18 issue of Science magazine, Alex Farrell, assistant professor of energy and resources at UC Berkeley, and David Keith, associate professor of engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University, present various short- and long-term strategies that they say would achieve the same results as switching from gasoline-powered vehicles to hydrogen cars. "Hydrogen cars are a poor short-term strategy, and it's not even clear that they are a good idea in the long term," said Farrell. "Because the prospects for hydrogen cars are so uncertain, we need to think carefully before we invest all this money and all this public effort in one area." Farrell and Keith compared the costs of developing fuel cell vehicles to the costs of other strategies for achieving the same environmental and economic goals. "There are three reasons you might think hydrogen would be a good thing to use as a transportation fuel - it can reduce air pollution, slow global climate change and reduce dependence on oil imports - but for each one there is something else you could do that would probably work better, work faster and be cheaper," Farrell said. President George W. Bush has proposed a federally funded, five-year, $1.7 billion FreedomCAR and Fuel Initiative to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, a hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies. Several announced candidates for president have also proposed major research efforts to develop hydrogen-fueled vehicles and technologies to produce, transport and store the hydrogen, while many scientists have praised the initiative. For many people, the attraction of hydrogen is that it produces no pollution or greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. For others, the attraction is that hydrogen is a research program, not a regulation, and that some hydrogen-related research will also help develop better gasoline-powered cars. One problem, said Farrell, an expert on energy and environment issues, is that this glosses over the issue of where the hydrogen comes from. Current methods of producing hydrogen from oil and coal produce substantial carbon dioxide. Unless and until this carbon can be captured and stored, renewable (wind or solar) and nuclear power, with their attendant problems of supply and waste, are the only means of producing hydrogen without also producing greenhouse gases. In addition, Farrell points out that setting up a completely new infrastructure to distribute hydrogen would cost at least $5,000 per vehicle. Transporting, storing and distributing a gaseous fuel as opposed to a liquid raises many new problems. More billions of dollars will be needed to develop hydrogen fuel cells that can match the performance of today's gasoline engines, he said. The benefits might be worth the costs of fuel-cell development and creating a new infrastructure, however, if air pollution, greenhouse gases and imported petroleum could not be reduced in other ways. But they can, said Farrell. Improvements to current cars and current environmental rules are more than 100 times cheaper than hydrogen cars at reducing air pollution. And for several decades, the most cost-effective method to reduce oil imports and CO2 emissions from cars will be to increase fuel efficiency, the two scientists found. "You could get a significant reduction in petroleum consumption pretty inexpensively by raising the fuel economy standard or raising fuel prices, or both, which is probably the cheapest strategy," Farrell said. "This would actually have no net cost or possibly even a negative cost - buying less fuel would save more money than the price of the high-efficiency cars. The vehicles would still be large enough for Americans and they would still be safe." Technologies are now on the shelf to achieve better fuel efficiency, he said. All that's lacking are economic incentives to encourage auto makers to make and drivers to buy fuel-efficient cars. "Automobile manufacturers don't need to invest in anything fancy - a wide number of technologies are already on the shelf," he said, quoting, among other studies, a 2002 report by the National Academy of Sciences. "The cost would be trivial compared to the changes needed to go to a hydrogen car." Petroleum substitutes like ethanol that can be used in today's vehicl
[biofuels-biz] Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells
http://www.ems.org/ Environmental Media Services - facts and contacts for journalists July 21 Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells Since the unveiling of President Bush's $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel cell research program, called FreedomCar, a number of energy experts have warned that the hydrogen revolution may not be forthcoming any time soon. Even worse, say the critics, Bush's proposal may distract the public from the need to improve the fuel-efficiency of internal combustion engines. The latest report to cast doubt on fuel cells comes from researchers at UC Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon University who argue that fuel efficient gasoline engines represent a cheaper, faster way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and oil imports. Their paper appears in the July 18 issue of Science magazine. http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/17_fuels.shtml "Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert" Taking a different view is Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute, a vigorous proponent of fuel cells. In a June 2003 peer-reviewed paper (PDF) called "Twenty Hydrogen Myths," http://www.rmi.org/images/other/E-20HydrogenMyths.pdf Lovins takes issue with the fuel cell naysayers, insisting that a "rapid and profitable" transition to hydrogen-powered vehicles and power plants is already within close reach. Writes Lovins, "Both the long-term hydrogen goals and the short-term [fuel efficiency] goals are worthy ... they also support each other, so there's no reason not to do both." He insists that rapid, profitable deployment of fuel cells is within close reach and that "no technological breakthroughs are needed, although many will probably continue to occur." Some of the "myths" Lovins' paper contests: - A whole hydrogen industry would have to be developed from scratch. - We lack a safe and affordable way to store hydrogen in cars. - Hydrogen is too expensive to compete with gasoline. - Since renewables are currently too costly, hydrogen would have to be made from fossil fuels or nuclear energy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells
http://www.ems.org/ Environmental Media Services - facts and contacts for journalists July 21 Experts Disagree on Promise of Hydrogen Fuel Cells Since the unveiling of President Bush's $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel cell research program, called FreedomCar, a number of energy experts have warned that the hydrogen revolution may not be forthcoming any time soon. Even worse, say the critics, Bush's proposal may distract the public from the need to improve the fuel-efficiency of internal combustion engines. The latest report to cast doubt on fuel cells comes from researchers at UC Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon University who argue that fuel efficient gasoline engines represent a cheaper, faster way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and oil imports. Their paper appears in the July 18 issue of Science magazine. http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/17_fuels.shtml "Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert" Taking a different view is Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute, a vigorous proponent of fuel cells. In a June 2003 peer-reviewed paper (PDF) called "Twenty Hydrogen Myths," http://www.rmi.org/images/other/E-20HydrogenMyths.pdf Lovins takes issue with the fuel cell naysayers, insisting that a "rapid and profitable" transition to hydrogen-powered vehicles and power plants is already within close reach. Writes Lovins, "Both the long-term hydrogen goals and the short-term [fuel efficiency] goals are worthy ... they also support each other, so there's no reason not to do both." He insists that rapid, profitable deployment of fuel cells is within close reach and that "no technological breakthroughs are needed, although many will probably continue to occur." Some of the "myths" Lovins' paper contests: - A whole hydrogen industry would have to be developed from scratch. - We lack a safe and affordable way to store hydrogen in cars. - Hydrogen is too expensive to compete with gasoline. - Since renewables are currently too costly, hydrogen would have to be made from fossil fuels or nuclear energy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Separation of water from WVO
Tom, The CaCl salt is added as a brine. I'm experimenting on the minimum amount needed, so more on that to come. CaCl is highly soluble in water, but insoluble in oil, so it should all end up in the aqueous layer. The small "experiment in a jar" separated in less than 24 hours at room temperature. I have not made any product yet from the resulting dried oil, but I will as soon as I'm finished with this phase. The advantages to time and gravity are unquantified as of yet, but it should allow a quicker separation at lower temperatures, saving time and energy. I just modified the apparatus yesterday to allow the pump to drain better when the tank drains, so I don't have any new pictures yet. I'll do that as soon as I get the tank reloaded with brine and emulsified oil. I'll include pictures of the mist-sprayer assembly as well. Thanks, Terry --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Terry- Would the CaCl salt be added as a crystal, or as a brine? What > proportions are needed? Where do you think the salt ends up?-in the aqueous layer, or > in between? Have you made biodiesel from the resulting separated oil layer? > Did the process change any from that made from unsalted oil? I, for one, > would always be interested in equipment that promotes a process, so if you can > post any pictures or drawings, it would be good. Does this process have any > advantages over the old standby's of time and gravity? > > Keep up the good work, we are always interested in new perspectives. > > Tom Leue > > > In a message dated 7/20/03 6:04:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > Hello all, > > This subject is also posted on [EMAIL PROTECTED], but I > > thought I'd post it here too.Ê Any feedback would be appreciated.Ê > > > > This problem is something I noticed right away when I started > > reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated with > > the process (i.e. making soap instead of fuel.)Ê As a chemical > > engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the emulsified > > oil chemically.Ê Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80% > > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt > > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures.Ê CaCl, better > > known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by > > even in Washington State where we don't get much ice.Ê I've already > > done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how fast > > you get separation.Ê CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, and I'm > > hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low, saving > > both energy and time.Ê I would appreciate any feedback; I have a > > picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested. > > > > Terry LohnesÊ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Control Hunger EZ with fast acting oral EZ Appetite Suppressant Spray from VitaminBoost.com. 1 Month Supply - 2oz., 80 sprays: $19.97. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2866&lp=ezappetite3.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/aSJFwB/XWXGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
Dear All Why not just centrifuge the oil to begin with - thats what I plan to do. Mark Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Naturally Painless Spray, Coral Calcium, No Snore, EZ Appetite Suppressant. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2882 http://us.click.yahoo.com/yoMABA/ruYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Separation of water from WVO
- Original Message - From: "David Teal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Terry Lohnes' original post reported that : > > > Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80% > > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt > > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. > > My concern is that this is not representative of typical water contamination > percentages Yes David, I too think that the lower percentages would be of more relevance. My main concern however is someone who claimed to be a Chemical Engineer ( could be wrong there Terry, my appologies if I am) using the formulae CaCl for Calcium chloride. Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate & Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865&lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [sc_hwys] Announcement: The FOSCH Statement of Position
>Friends of Southern California's Highways endorses the gas tax as a >road finance mechanism. Since the gas tax revenue is being eroded by >inflation and increased fuel efficiency of newer vehicles, the gas >tax should be indexed to inflation, and raised as necessary to >replace lost revenue due to increased fuel efficiency. Fuel taxes >should also be levied on any alternate fuels that achieve significant >market penetration. Do you have any mechanisms in mind to levy taxes on EVs which source their alternative fuel either from the grid, or from home-made energy (e.g. solar panels, etc.). What about ways to levy taxes on vehicles that use biofuels? I participate in discussion groups for those fuels. I am not against taxing them. On the contrary: many of us are of the opinion that we need to do a better job of showing the government that its legitimate road-tax revenues will not be cut off by our switching to those fuels, and that way we can get better support for our use of those fuels and cars. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
Terry, Might you care to include a small vial sampling of epsom salts in your emulsion breaking efforts? The reason I ask is that the water that settles out could then be used during the waste water treatment stage where the dissolved soaps are pulled out as a soap scum by adding either magnesium sulfate or aluminum sulfate. This would give the waste from your trial a useful second application were it to be effective. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:33 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO > Todd, > I made the emulsion in a blender. I mixed 5 liters this way, one 1 > liter at a time, for 15 seconds then added it all together for a > total of 5 liters of emusion. I wanted to see how long it would > take to separate on its own at room temperature, so I let it sit. > After 3 days, there was no separation at all that I could see. I > know that 20% water is a bit excessive, but it's easier to see the > water removal that way. > > Terry > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, > > > > Just out of curiosity, how did the 80/20 soy/water become > emulsified? Just > > running the two in a blender would create but a temporary > emulsification, > > although there would always be the thin emulsified interface layer. > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:54 PM > > Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > This problem is something I noticed right away when I started > > > reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated > with > > > the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical > > > engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the > emulsified > > > oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of > 80% > > > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl > salt > > > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl, > better > > > known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by > > > even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've > already > > > done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how > fast > > > you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, and > I'm > > > hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low, > saving > > > both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a > > > picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested. > > > > > > Terry Lohnes > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > Or into the drains and landfillsin a big way!! > > > > > > > > Edward Beggs > > > > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Appal Energy wrote: > > > > > > > > > In the United States WVO primarily goes towards animal feed > as > > > an > > > > > energy > > > > > quotient, the cosmetics industry, the oleo-chemicals industry > > > in > > > > > general and > > > > > to third world countries as refined yellow grease for edible > > > purposes. > > > > > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: "Christopher Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:28 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] dewatering WVO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Keith: > > > > >> > > > > >> Any idea what the recyclers do with WVO? I talked to a > couple of > > > > > restaurants > > > > >> and found out that there are people who buy their WVO. The > > > > >> restaurants > > > > >> don't have a clue what is done with the WVO. > > > > >> > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> Chris > > > > >> > > > > >> =>-Original Message- > > > > >> =>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >> =>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM > > > > >> =>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> =>Subject: Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO > > > > >> => > > > > >> => > > > > >> =>>Hey Kieth- > > > > >> =>> > > > > >> =>>Which restaurants did you learn not to eat at, and why? > > > > >> =>> > > > > >> =>>Best Regards, > > > > >> =>> > > > > >> =>>John D, in Ohio > > > > >> => > > > > >> => > > > > >> =>Hello John > > > > >> => > > > > >> =>As a general rule we've found the cheaper the restaurant > the > > > worse > > > > >> =>the WVO - more abused, cooked longer and probably hotter > > > before > > > > >> being > > > > >> =>renewed, higher FFA levels. Others say the same in other > > > countries. > > > > >> =>I'm sure there are exceptions but I've yet to find one. > One > > > real > > > > >> =>cheap eatery in Chiba used quite a lot of oil but didn't > have > > > any > > > > >> WVO > > > > >> =>for us - they used it all up! Ulp... I definitely > wouldn't eat > > > > >> =>anything that'd been cooked in some of the WVO
[biofuel] Finansing a BD production unit
Hello All, We are looking into the finansing of a little larger BD production unit for WVO here in Finland. Has some one information or experince of different finansing possibilities there is within Europa and what are the finansing strategies used worldwide for industry investements as this? Summer regards Tomas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Reducing California's Petroleum Dependence - Last chance to comment on reccomendations
The Final Draft of the AB 2076 report, Reducing California's Petroleum Dependence, is now available for public review. Adoption of this joint agency draft report will be considered at the Energy Commission's regularly scheduled business meeting on July 23, 2003, and has been added to the agenda of the Air Resources Board's July 24-25, 2003, Board meeting. Public comments on the Final Draft Report are requested at both the Commission and Board hearings. Questions on the Draft Final Report should be directed to Dan Fong at 916-654-4638. Further information regarding the July 23 Energy Commission business meeting is available at www.energy.ca.gov/business_meetings/ and further information regarding the July 24-25 Air Resources Board board meeting is available at www.arb.ca.gov." ** Assembly Bill 2076 (Chapter 936, Statutes of 2000) requires the Energy Commission and the California Air Resources Board to develop and submit to the Legislature a strategy to reduce petroleum dependence in California. The statute requires the strategy to include goals for reducing the rate of growth in the demand for petroleum fuels. In addition, the strategy will include recommendations to increase transportation energy efficiency as well as the use of non-petroleum fuels and advanced transportation technologies including alternative fuel vehicles, hybrid vehicles, and high-fuel efficiency vehicles. ** Main CEC Page on "AB 2076 Strategy to reduce petroleum dependence" : http://www.energy.ca.gov/fuels/petroleum_dependence/ Documents page: http://www.energy.ca.gov/fuels/petroleum_dependence/documents/index.html My testimony from June 6: http://www.energy.ca.gov/fuels/petroleum_dependence/documents/2003-06-06_hearing/public_comments/2003-06-06_CASTLEMAN.DOC Which is located in the public testimony documents folder: http://www.energy.ca.gov/fuels/petroleum_dependence/documents/2003-06-06_hearing/public_comments/ My testimony from the May 15 hearing: http://www.drive55.org/pn/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=1 CEC Meeting notice: http://www.energy.ca.gov/business_meetings/2003_agendas/agenda_2003-07-23.html ARB Meeting notice: http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/ma/ma072403.htm I am still working on my comments (draft below) that I will offer at the upcoming hearings, and I know Dr. Brian O'Leary and Alden Bryant will be coming to provide theirs regarding New Energy technologies. Perhaps there are some more biofuel advocates that would like to also come and give their 5 minutes worth. (Public comments are limited to 5 minutes each, and these are regular business meetings so the AB 2076 recommendations is just an agenda item among 20 or so. It appears public comments are taken at the end of the session.) *** Public Comments for CEC Hearing July 23, 2003 (DRAFT) By Tim Castleman Introduction Thank you for allowing me to contribute my comments regarding this important issue. I would like to recognize and thank all of the hard working public servants, industry representatives, and special interest groups that have contributed to this monumental task, the goal of which is to reduce petroleum consumption in California. The recommendations that come out of this process will have far reaching effects and should be given careful consideration. The Natural Gas Solution I would like to first comment on the portion of the recommendations that offer Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG), and Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) as a significant part of the overall solution. I have some major concerns about the approach that has been formulated. The reliance on CNG, LPG and LNG as alternative fuel to displace gasoline and diesel consumption fails on several accounts, especially considering recent testimony before congress by Alan Greenspan and the following current statement from American Petroleum Institute: As of June 2003, supply and demand for natural gas are delicately balanced. However, natural gas prices are significantly higher than this time last year; some prices have doubled for gas purchased by the companies that supply it to consumers. Storage levels are at near record lows while demand for natural gas is growing. In the short term, increases in demand due to weather (hot summer and/or cold winter) could stress the supply/demand balance. Also, hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico could disrupt offshore natural gas production and reduce supply. Long-term Supply Outlook Factors shaping long-term demand for natural gas: a.. 80 percent of new electric generating capacity is natural gas fired. b.. Demand is growing because clean-burning natural gas is a preferred fuel due to its environmental benefits. c.. The U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration forecasts that natural gas demand will grow by more than 50 percent by 2025. d.. The new domestic fields being found are smaller and have shorter lives
Re: [biofuels-biz] Separation of water from WVO
Terry Lohnes' original post reported that : > Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80% > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. My concern is that this is not representative of typical water contamination percentages (more like 1 to 3%) and that there may be an effect analogous to the famous azeotrope when distilling ethanol. It may be a great idea, and salts have other uses in 'rescuing' disastrous biodiesel batches (as reported by Todd Swearingan some time ago and more recently by Girl Mark). Can I urge Terry to consider lower water contents in his promised trials? David T. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
Fred,
have you seen this method work? I would think the CaCl would go into
solution as it absorbed any water in the oil, then that salt
solution would be carried into the reactor with your clean oil.
Unless you drain the salt solution off before the Methanol and
catalyst is added, I think you'll still have a soap problem.
Terry
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi
> is this anything like pouring your filtered wvo through a vertical
pvc
> pipe full of dry lithium chloride pellets on the way to the 200
l.
> reactor?
> why is the calcium chloride in solution?
> I also would be interested in the picture.
> Thank You for offering.
>
> fred
>
> On Monday, Jul 21, 2003, at 10:28 US/Eastern, Brent S wrote:
>
> > I would be interested in the picture. I also am trying a
similar
> > process,
> > but using silica acrylate.
> >
> > Brent
> >
> >
> >> From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
> >> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:54:32 -
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >> This problem is something I noticed right away when I started
> >> reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated
with
> >> the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical
> >> engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the
emulsified
> >> oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation
of 80%
> >> soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl
salt
> >> solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl,
better
> >> known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by
> >> even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've
already
> >> done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how
fast
> >> you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale,
and I'm
> >> hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low,
saving
> >> both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a
> >> picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested.
> >>
> >> Terry Lohnes
> >>
> >> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Or into the drains and landfillsin a big way!!
> >>>
> >>> Edward Beggs
> >>> http://www.biofuels.ca
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Appal Energy wrote:
> >>>
> In the United States WVO primarily goes towards animal feed as
> >> an
> energy
> quotient, the cosmetics industry, the oleo-chemicals industry
> >> in
> general and
> to third world countries as refined yellow grease for edible
> >> purposes.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Christopher Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
>
>
> > Hi Keith:
> >
> > Any idea what the recyclers do with WVO? I talked to a
couple of
> restaurants
> > and found out that there are people who buy their WVO. The
> > restaurants
> > don't have a clue what is done with the WVO.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris
> >
> > =>-Original Message-
> > =>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > =>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM
> > =>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > =>Subject: Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
> > =>
> > =>
> > =>>Hey Kieth-
> > =>>
> > =>>Which restaurants did you learn not to eat at, and why?
> > =>>
> > =>>Best Regards,
> > =>>
> > =>>John D, in Ohio
> > =>
> > =>
> > =>Hello John
> > =>
> > =>As a general rule we've found the cheaper the restaurant
the
> >> worse
> > =>the WVO - more abused, cooked longer and probably hotter
> >> before
> > being
> > =>renewed, higher FFA levels. Others say the same in other
> >> countries.
> > =>I'm sure there are exceptions but I've yet to find one. One
> >> real
> > =>cheap eatery in Chiba used quite a lot of oil but didn't
have
> >> any
> > WVO
> > =>for us - they used it all up! Ulp... I definitely wouldn't
eat
> > =>anything that'd been cooked in some of the WVO we've had,
> >> lethal I
> > =>reckon. As the prices rise so does the WVO quality. The
very
> >> good
> > =>stuff that's hardly been used at all comes from the classy
> >> joints,
> > =>but it can be hard to get hold of - the waste recyclers
seem
> >> to like
> > =>it for the same reasons we do.
> > =>
> > =>We don't do restaurants now, one step back in the chain,
> >> much
> > better.
> > =>Also one step forward: quite a lot of the organic farmers
> >> here are
> > =>using our biodiesel in their tractors. Most of them sell
most
> >> of
> > =>their produce direct to consumers via "teikeis" ("face-to-
> >> face"),
> > the
> > =>Japanes
[biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
Todd,
I made the emulsion in a blender. I mixed 5 liters this way, one 1
liter at a time, for 15 seconds then added it all together for a
total of 5 liters of emusion. I wanted to see how long it would
take to separate on its own at room temperature, so I let it sit.
After 3 days, there was no separation at all that I could see. I
know that 20% water is a bit excessive, but it's easier to see the
water removal that way.
Terry
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Terry,
>
> Just out of curiosity, how did the 80/20 soy/water become
emulsified? Just
> running the two in a blender would create but a temporary
emulsification,
> although there would always be the thin emulsified interface layer.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:54 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
>
>
> > Hello all,
> > This problem is something I noticed right away when I started
> > reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated
with
> > the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical
> > engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the
emulsified
> > oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of
80%
> > soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl
salt
> > solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl,
better
> > known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by
> > even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've
already
> > done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how
fast
> > you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, and
I'm
> > hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low,
saving
> > both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a
> > picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested.
> >
> > Terry Lohnes
> >
> > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Or into the drains and landfillsin a big way!!
> > >
> > > Edward Beggs
> > > http://www.biofuels.ca
> > >
> > >
> > > On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Appal Energy wrote:
> > >
> > > > In the United States WVO primarily goes towards animal feed
as
> > an
> > > > energy
> > > > quotient, the cosmetics industry, the oleo-chemicals industry
> > in
> > > > general and
> > > > to third world countries as refined yellow grease for edible
> > purposes.
> > > >
> > > > Todd Swearingen
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Christopher Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:28 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Keith:
> > > >>
> > > >> Any idea what the recyclers do with WVO? I talked to a
couple of
> > > > restaurants
> > > >> and found out that there are people who buy their WVO. The
> > > >> restaurants
> > > >> don't have a clue what is done with the WVO.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Chris
> > > >>
> > > >> =>-Original Message-
> > > >> =>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> =>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM
> > > >> =>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> =>Subject: Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>>Hey Kieth-
> > > >> =>>
> > > >> =>>Which restaurants did you learn not to eat at, and why?
> > > >> =>>
> > > >> =>>Best Regards,
> > > >> =>>
> > > >> =>>John D, in Ohio
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>Hello John
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>As a general rule we've found the cheaper the restaurant
the
> > worse
> > > >> =>the WVO - more abused, cooked longer and probably hotter
> > before
> > > >> being
> > > >> =>renewed, higher FFA levels. Others say the same in other
> > countries.
> > > >> =>I'm sure there are exceptions but I've yet to find one.
One
> > real
> > > >> =>cheap eatery in Chiba used quite a lot of oil but didn't
have
> > any
> > > >> WVO
> > > >> =>for us - they used it all up! Ulp... I definitely
wouldn't eat
> > > >> =>anything that'd been cooked in some of the WVO we've had,
> > lethal I
> > > >> =>reckon. As the prices rise so does the WVO quality. The
very
> > good
> > > >> =>stuff that's hardly been used at all comes from the classy
> > joints,
> > > >> =>but it can be hard to get hold of - the waste recyclers
seem
> > to like
> > > >> =>it for the same reasons we do.
> > > >> =>
> > > >> =>We don't do restaurants now, one step back in the chain,
> > much
> > > >> better.
> > > >> =>Also one step forward: quite a lot of the organic farmers
> > here are
> > > >> =>using our biodiesel in their tractors. Most of them sell
most
> > of
> > > >> =>their produce direct to consumers via "teikeis" ("face-to-
> > face"),
> > > >> the
> > > >> =>Japanese version of CSAs (Community Supported
Agriculture),
> > and
> > > >> =>apparently the original inspiration for CSAs. Midori, my
