[Biofuel] By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists

[D. Mindock]

By Allowing White Racists in the 
Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists
Black America Web.com , Commentary, Judge 
Greg Mathis, Jul 14, 2006White supremacists believe 
that the white race is superior to all others and have used their beliefs to 
discriminate against those that didn't share their same ethnic or religious 
backgrounds. The U.S. government, realizing that such ideologies threaten the 
health of our country, has spoken out against such groups. In fact, 10 years 
ago, the Department of Defense made it clear that anyone subscribing to extreme 
separatist beliefs was not welcome in the U.S. military. But, with wars 
waging in Iraq and Afghanistan, the military is spread thin and desperate to 
recruit new soldiers. So desperate, in fact, that they are willing to overlook 
the growing number of white supremacists that have joined the military in the 
last few years. As long as they are willing to train hard and fight for their 
country, these new recruits are accepted into the armed forces. 
Unfortunately, these newly-minted soldiers aren't really in the military 
to defend the U.S. They are actually, in their minds, training for the race wars 
that they believe will inevitably take place. These future domestic terrorists 
are learning much of their trade at the expense of taxpayers, many of whom they 
will eventually rise up against.According to a study recently released 
by the Southern Poverty Law Center, extremists enter the military purposefully 
-- they want to learn combat techniques and want access to weapons, all with the 
ultimate goal of initiating race wars here in the U.S. Considering the military 
the perfect training ground, white supremacy groups encourage their members to 
enlist. Military personnel quoted in the report say that there are 
several hundred known extremists in the military. They are spread across the 
different branches of the military, yet manage to communicate with each other 
about weapons and recruiting new members. One officer based in Fort Lewis, 
Washington noted that there are 320 white supremacists at the base; only two 
have been discharged to date.The military has always had extremists in 
their ranks. In 1961, then-President John F. Kennedy reprimanded an Army general 
for passing out extremist materials to his troops. In 1979, 20 Klu Klux Klan 
members were uncovered on a Navy aircraft carrier. And, in 1995, Army veteran 
and Bronze star winner Timothy McVeigh killed 169 people when he set off a bomb 
in an Oklahoma City federal building. McVeigh along with his accomplice, Terry 
Nichols, also a veteran, was an anti-government extremist; the bombing was 
inspired by a neo-Nazi novel that McVeigh actually encouraged other soldiers to 
read while he was in the Army. Extremists present a serious threat to 
both their fellow soldiers and to the public at large. Ethnic soldiers not only 
have to worry about dying in combat, but they also have to worry about being the 
potential victim of their fellow soldier's racially-motivated acts. Once their 
tour of duty is up, these white supremacists are back in society, more violent 
than before and, now, with an intimate knowledge of guns and explosives. 
The U.S. government can't sit around, waiting for the next Timothy 
McVeigh to reveal himself. By identifying and discharging known extremists from 
the military, we can stop future domestic terrorists in their tracks. Taxpayer 
dollars should not pay for White Supremacy Boot Camp. The military is supposed 
to protect all of America, not train those who plan to wreak havoc on its 
citizens. Judge Greg Mathis is national vice president of Rainbow 
PUSH and a national board member of the Southern Christian Leadership 
Conference. 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[manuel cilia]

Dear Kevin,
I do this for a living. My company is based in Australia and we supply 
off-the-homes with power. In outback Australia it can cost upwards of 
$150,000 to connect to the grid.
You should never use a large diesel genset unless you intend to use it to 
its maximum capacity, running a diesel genset at half load or less will 
greatly reduce the life of the motor. The best is to create a diesel-battery 
hydrib system where the diesel genset act large a battery charger and runs 
at full power (usually 3 hours) until the batteries are charged, you then 
run off the batteries through an inverter for the rest of the time. During 
the charging process you can run a heat exchanger through the radiator to 
heat a water supply for either hot water for your house or what I do a lot 
of in Australia is hydronic underfloor heating. Also I would try to 
introduce solar voltaic panels which will give you enough energy for the 
summer period while during the winter period the system will rely more on 
the energy from the diesel. It is very important to work out what your 
energy usage is before you start designing a system. I am happy to help. I 
have modelling software to help come up with the most economic system.
- Original Message - 
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?



 On Jul 15, 2006, at 5:33 PM, Jason Katie wrote:


 is it to a workshed or is it to your house? if it is a house, i
 personally
 would start with a 25Kw generator for main power


 under $1 so far, and that's 200 amps of 120 VAC! Maybe
 even overkill   (it's a single-family dwelling, 1400 sq ft, strawbale,
 plus detached strawbale shop). Around here propane would be most
 practical -- not great I know, but I wouldn't be able to make enough
 biodiesel/methane/whatever.


 and then next begin replacing big energy sinks like heating and
 cooling with geothermal, woodfire, heating oil(and all its variants),
 biogas, or solar/solar-thermal systems (preferably a mix for
 reliability).


 This is sunny logging country (Sierra foothills) so a wood/propane
 multifuel boiler for radiant heat, with solar hot water backup, would
 be very doable. 3600W PV system with batteries could supplant
 the generator more than half the year.


 It will take a while, but after all is said and done, you can call
 out the
 PGE surveyor and rub it in his face.


 Oh boy :-)I hadn't really considered relying heavily on a motor-
 generator
 (noisy, smelly, polluting, especially in an area where grid power comes
 largely from hydro), but I admit the economics are compelling. Something
 to think about -- thanks!


 -K

 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] What is sustainable?

[Andrew Lowe]

Rexis Tree wrote:
 What is sustainable? There are voices saying Malaysia and Indonesia oil palm
 plantation are not sustainable, and therefore the biodiesel they made are no
 point at all. I am very curious, how sustainable could a plantation be? Is
 there a way of sustainable plantation?
 
 

I was just cleaning out some old emails and came across this. I was 
recently talking to a stockbroker, yes I did wash afterwards, who had 
recently floated a BioD company. They will be setting up a 250Ml plant 
in Kuantan, Malaysia. During the roadshow part of the float they had to 
  convince some investment funds that the Malaysian palm oil supply was 
sustainable.

The reply was that a lot of the palm oil plantations are not new 
plantations, ie having just ripped out rainforest and planted palm, but 
where second and in some cases third generation plantations. The logic 
being that if the plantations were established in, say, the 50's - 60's, 
and the trees that are currently planted are the second or third 
generation of trees, the first planting has gone through its life cycle 
and been replaced and so on, then the plantation is sustainable.

Having driven through this part of the world, I'd be worried about soil 
errosion and nutrients being returned to the soil. A few palm oil trees 
won't return to the biomass anywhere near the amount of leaves/branches 
that a true jungle will. It might not happen in the next few years, 
but I think you will soon end up with exhaused soils unable to support 
anything.

Regards,
Andrew

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] degradation of methoxide solution in time

[Rafal Szczesniak]

Hi,

Is it possible for methoxide solution to degrade ? I've had
400ml of it in 5l container waiting in a cool and dark place
(basement) for a couple of months. It seemed to have a bit
of some sediment on the bottom, but recently when I tried
to use it, I could clearly see it was quite a bit of white
dust (a bit like a light sand). Also, the solution wasn't
absolutely clear and translucent, and it lost about 50ml in
volume. I thought the container was really hermetic...

The solution I'm talking about took 400ml of methanol and 7g
of NaOH.


-- 
cheers,

 Rafal Szczesniak  **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl
 Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org
+-+
 *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba  http://www.samba.org
+-+


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] degradation of methoxide solution in time

[bob allen]

the methoxide is reacting with CO2 in the the 4.6 L of air in container, making 
sodium bicarbonate 
and or sodium carbonate.

Rafal Szczesniak wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Is it possible for methoxide solution to degrade ? I've had
 400ml of it in 5l container waiting in a cool and dark place
 (basement) for a couple of months. It seemed to have a bit
 of some sediment on the bottom, but recently when I tried
 to use it, I could clearly see it was quite a bit of white
 dust (a bit like a light sand). Also, the solution wasn't
 absolutely clear and translucent, and it lost about 50ml in
 volume. I thought the container was really hermetic...
 
 The solution I'm talking about took 400ml of methanol and 7g
 of NaOH.
 
 


-- 
Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral 
philosophy; that is, 
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists

[Alan Petrillo]

D. Mindock wrote:

 *By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic 
 Terrorists*
[snip]
 The U.S. government can't sit around, waiting for the next Timothy 
 McVeigh to reveal himself. By identifying and discharging known 
 extremists from the military, we can stop future domestic terrorists in 
 their tracks. Taxpayer dollars should not pay for White Supremacy Boot 
 Camp. The military is supposed to protect all of America, not train 
 those who plan to wreak havoc on its citizens.
 
 /Judge Greg Mathis is national vice president of Rainbow PUSH and a 
 national board member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference./

I disagree.

By kicking them out of the military we're more likely to, in their 
minds, justify their antigovernment mindset, and hasten rather than 
delay their attacks on the United States.  Just kicking them out of the 
military will _not_ stop them in their tracks.

A better idea would be to do enough of a background check to keep them 
out in the first place.

Keep in mind also, that while they're in the military it's easier, a LOT 
easier to keep an eye on them.

A yet better idea would be to stop the costly international adventures 
that require high numbers of new recruits.


AP


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] ants

[Alan Petrillo]

Jason Katie wrote:

 i noticed that there are large numbers of ants in my wife's herb planter, 
 and i have also noticed a /major/ decrease in bug eaten leaves. do some 
 species of ants hunt these pest bugs? or is it just because of the aging 
 cycles of these pest bugs caused them to move on?
 Jason
 ICQ#:  154998177
 MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are many species of ants that form symbiotic relationships with 
certain plants.  When they do this they will defend their symbiants with 
great ferocity against all insect pests.

I've had colonies of black ants adopt my mango trees, and since then I 
haven't had any pest problems with them.  Except for squirrels and 
neighborhood kids, that is.

Now if I can just get some ants to adopt my rose bushes...


AP


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] degradation of methoxide solution in time

[Rafal Szczesniak]

On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 08:43:29AM -0500, bob allen wrote:
 the methoxide is reacting with CO2 in the the 4.6 L of air in container, 
 making sodium bicarbonate 
 and or sodium carbonate.

That's what I thought. Although my original idea was that lye itself
could have reacted with CO2 from air making it less pure NaOH. When
dissolving in methanol, NaOH gets into the solution and residue is
Na2CO3. The only question is whether or not, sodium bicarbonate
affects the biodiesel reaction ?


-- 
cheers,

 Rafal Szczesniak  **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl
 Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org
+-+
 *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba  http://www.samba.org
+-+


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Ken Provost]

On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:

 you can cogen for 5 cents a kwhr assuming you
 use the heat. Hardware is about 5 thousand dollars
 unless you want an electric stove.


No electric stove.  Could you elaborate a bit on the
details, please? What hardware are we talking about?
Solar panels, diesel genset? I can definitely see using
the waste heat from a genset in my radiant underfloor
heating system in the winter. A little harder to use the
waste heat in the summer, but maybe the hottub, showers,
etc. can use some of it.

BTW, thanks to all for your replies.

-K

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Appal Energy]

Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought patterns

Still it's offensive to just cave in to them,

What's somewhat offensive is that it takes that much power to keep you jolly.

Your standard load should or could be much less. Peak load (power tools) could 
be handled by a generator, preferably diesel. Any average idiot of moderate 
brain can install PV and eliminate half the cost of a system.

Refrigeration by something along the lines of a Sunfrost or a home-built, 
walk-in, gas absorption.

Blown in insulation to R-40+ in attic and try the vertical cellulose (not blown 
in) for the walls. R value of fibergalss stinks at colder temps. And then, of 
course, there's always straw bale.

Vacuous tube solar collectors for hot water. They heat even on cloudy days.

White roof tile. Exterior window valances to eliminate direct solar gain 
through windows. Keep every tree you can. Mount your PV apart from the roof. 
Too many people sacrifice their shade trees and mount the solar on their roof, 
in effect losing a very large portion of what they're trying to gain.

Masonry stove. Appropriately placed louvered (adjustable) vents to allow heat 
circulation in the most distant rooms. Full basement if possible with door at 
top of stairwell between 1st and 2nd floor. You'd be surprised how cool the 
first floor will stay all summer using the basement walls as a heat exchanger.

I guess the real question that has to be asked is At what expense are you 
getting all your jollies? This whole tool autonomy mindset is what's driven 
consumerism to levels that have never been sustainable and have brought us to 
the brink that we're on now.

Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be happy and be of service to 
others?

Todd Swearingen


Ken Provost wrote:

Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line
700 ft away -- $17000 USD !

Granted, a good standalone system would be at least
twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant
floor heat :-)  Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, and
it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum
that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept.

I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts
would be welcome.



-K

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/




  


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming

[Michael]

Some comments added between
***
and


Very Respectfully,

Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com

- Original Message - 
From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming


I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps
some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a
letter to the editor any help out there?

A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on
the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for
Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of
Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming?
Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind
“and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39.

Less than 100 years ago a tyrant ruled in Germany and he persecuted a
people known as Jews. Now it is arguable to say that this was prophetic
and would happen with or without intervention from men. From this, one
may try to justify inaction as Gods will and watch this happen. Men of
all creeds have always been good at justification of evil deeds as a way
to seek safety from any dangers or concerns that would go along with
intervention of such. But what is remarkable is that some people were
saved because some people could not justify inaction within themselves
and they made a choice against the tide.
*
God's will is that all of his children have a good life.  It is our will 
that
makes our lives not good lives, not God's
**
The time has come for Christians of faith to make a choice.

Now consider this, within the next 10 years hundreds of thousands of
people face death as a direct result of global warming. How we choose
TODAY will have a direct impact on the number of graves needed in the
next decade –our neighbor’s graves. No, we won’t smell the stench of
death and many will tell you that I have been out in the sun to long and
then the good old justifications start…. How remarkably similar to the
responses of Pharisees .

As for me I will stand by my neighbor as best I can, as this is where
Christ said to stand.
***
I will daily ask Christ:
What will make a difference towards your will today?
***

It makes no difference if global warming is part of prophecy that is to
come no matter what. Judas was part of prophecy as well and Jesus stood
by him to the very end as friend

expecting him to help with his mission to redeem our world.
*

allowing him every chance to repent?

In other words they may dig graves in the next ten years but it will not
be a result of my response to global warming.

Jim





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Appal Energy]

Why not think as carbon neutral as possible?

Todd Swearingen


Fritz Friesinger wrote:

 Hi Ken,
 how about a 25KVA Genset run on Methanegaz?
 it seems to me Methane is the Way to go! Why... there is the transport 
 and handling of the Biofuel a lot of manpower involved!
 You can set up a Methaneproduction with your Wast,the Bacteria will do 
 the work for you and your own Methaneproduction will be put to good 
 use instead of releasing it in the Athmosphere,where it contributes to 
 global warming!
 with a budget of 17 US grands i would not hesitate ,its a one time 
 spending,than you are homefree
 Fritz

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jason Katie mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 *Sent:* Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:33 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

 is it to a workshed or is it to your house? if it is a house, i
 personally
 would start with a 25Kw generator for main power(on BD of course),
 and then
 next begin replacing big energy sinks like heating and cooling with
 geothermal, woodfire, heating oil(and all its variants), biogas, or
 solar/solar-thermal systems (preferably a mix for reliability). it
 will take
 a while, but after all is said and done, you can call out the PGE
 surveyor
 and rub it in his face.(oh BTW, show him the total cost and
 compare his
 first estimate, then tell him to take his 17000 powerline and
 stick it! ;D )

 Jason
 ICQ#:  154998177
 MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - Original Message -
 From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:35 PM
 Subject: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?


  Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line
  700 ft away -- $17000 USD !
 
  Granted, a good standalone system would be at least
  twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant
  floor heat :-)  Still it's offensive to just cave in to
 them, and
  it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum
  that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept.
 
  I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts
  would be welcome.
 
 
 
  -K
 
  ___
  Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 
  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
  messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
  --
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date:
 7/13/2006
 



 -- 
 No virus found in this outgoing message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date:
 7/13/2006


 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006
  


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming

[JJJN]

Thanks Michael,
Very good comments and I have noted them, This was a first draft and I 
am researching more as time goes on adding bits here and there for 
impact and strength of argument. Yours have been helpful.
Thanks again,
Jim

Michael wrote:

Some comments added between
***
and


Very Respectfully,

Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com

- Original Message - 
From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming


I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps
some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a
letter to the editor any help out there?

A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on
the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for
Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of
Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming?
Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind
“and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39.

Less than 100 years ago a tyrant ruled in Germany and he persecuted a
people known as Jews. Now it is arguable to say that this was prophetic
and would happen with or without intervention from men. From this, one
may try to justify inaction as Gods will and watch this happen. Men of
all creeds have always been good at justification of evil deeds as a way
to seek safety from any dangers or concerns that would go along with
intervention of such. But what is remarkable is that some people were
saved because some people could not justify inaction within themselves
and they made a choice against the tide.
*
God's will is that all of his children have a good life.  It is our will 
that
makes our lives not good lives, not God's
**
The time has come for Christians of faith to make a choice.

Now consider this, within the next 10 years hundreds of thousands of
people face death as a direct result of global warming. How we choose
TODAY will have a direct impact on the number of graves needed in the
next decade –our neighbor’s graves. No, we won’t smell the stench of
death and many will tell you that I have been out in the sun to long and
then the good old justifications start…. How remarkably similar to the
responses of Pharisees .

As for me I will stand by my neighbor as best I can, as this is where
Christ said to stand.
***
I will daily ask Christ:
What will make a difference towards your will today?
***

It makes no difference if global warming is part of prophecy that is to
come no matter what. Judas was part of prophecy as well and Jesus stood
by him to the very end as friend

expecting him to help with his mission to redeem our world.
*

allowing him every chance to repent?

In other words they may dig graves in the next ten years but it will not
be a result of my response to global warming.

Jim





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


  


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[JJJN]

Ken,
Along time ago I looked at a generator/battery hybrid system for 
eliminating the grid. At that time power by the Kw was relatively cheap 
and it didn't break even as far as Dollars and Cents.  But it came close 
when fugitive heat was considered to heat water.

But dollars and cents is not the only consideration nor should it be the 
most important. 

I am currently going back to the idea and I can get power cheaper than 
anyone off the grid.  I feel that I can afford to put it into place and 
as a result I will have independence and more importantly my family will 
be making a stronger move to becoming GREEN. (using Biodiesel)

There are batteries made that have a greater life than the standard lead 
acid and with an inverter they allow you to have the convenience of 
turning on power night or day - the generator is for charging only.

I would invest the money into a good off grid system. A $ poor decision 
but a much wiser decision all considered.

Good luck,

Jim

Ken Provost wrote:

Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line
700 ft away -- $17000 USD !

Granted, a good standalone system would be at least
twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant
floor heat :-)  Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, and
it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum
that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept.

I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts
would be welcome.



-K

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Kirk McLoren]

Worth doing if only for that.  I wouldnt hesitate for a moment to be sans Edison.  Every lightning storm I unplug sensitive apparatus since the grid is a big lightning rod.  Wouldnt have that problem with my own.KirkJJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Ken,Along time ago I looked at a generator/battery hybrid system for eliminating the grid. At that time power by the Kw was relatively cheap and it didn't break even as far as Dollars and Cents. But it came close when fugitive heat was considered to heat water.But dollars and cents is not the only consideration nor should it be the most important. I am currently going back to the idea and I can get power cheaper than anyone off the grid. I feel that I can afford to put it into place and
 as a result I will have independence and more importantly my family will be making a stronger move to becoming GREEN. (using Biodiesel)There are batteries made that have a greater life than the standard lead acid and with an inverter they allow you to have the convenience of turning on power night or day - the generator is for charging only.I would invest the money into a good off grid system. A $ poor decision but a much wiser decision all considered.Good luck,JimKen Provost wrote:Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line700 ft away -- $17000 USD !Granted, a good standalone system would be at leasttwice that, given my love of power tools and radiantfloor heat :-) Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, andit's almost like they priced the connection at the maximumthat would still be (barely) advantageous to
 accept.I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughtswould be welcome.-K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Ken Provost]

On Jul 16, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Appal Energy wrote:


 Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought
 patterns



I did indeed, Todd, and your thoughts as usual are cogent.
It's true that the comforts of cheap electricity that I've enjoyed
all my life has raised the bar of my imagined needs much
higher than they probably are. Still, it would be very silly to
spend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was not
satisfied and end up spending the $17,000 to get PGE also.

That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what level
of inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, so I'd prefer to err
on the side of having excess capacity (which of course I
don't have to use).  All your ideas are excellent, and many
of them are already designed in. I expect to run house and
shop on maybe 15 kWh per day average, which is much
less than any home I've had before. But one could always
do better.



 Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be
 happy and be of service to others?



Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take?   :-)


-K

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Kirk McLoren]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Micro_Cogeneration/  Download the free book in the files section.  You can get a deja browser plugin (free) at lizardtech.comYes, a diesel genset  Size it to run at 3/4 of max as that is about the peak for fuel efficiency.  Maxing them runs them too rich. Like being behind an 18 wheeler on a hill.  With biofuel the exhaust is much more benign. The soydiesel project in Missouri  was running soy powered forklifts in a warehouse. Try that with pump diesel.  Drop you to your knees. They said with soy it was like a propane powered forklift.Kirk  Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  On Jul 15,
 2006, at 10:00 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote: you can cogen for 5 cents a kwhr assuming you use the heat. Hardware is about 5 thousand dollars unless you want an electric stove.No electric stove. Could you elaborate a bit on thedetails, please? What hardware are we talking about?Solar panels, diesel genset? I can definitely see usingthe waste heat from a genset in my radiant underfloorheating system in the winter. A little harder to use thewaste heat in the summer, but maybe the hottub, showers,etc. can use some of it.BTW, thanks to all for your replies.-K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Kirk McLoren]

If I had the bucks I suppose all these hi tech appliances would be nice.  Unfortunately I dont so I have to use what most people use.  I think if you pump your own water 30 kWhrs a day is more realistic. Thats $45 a month. Not so bad.KirkKen Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  On Jul 16, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Appal Energy wrote: Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought patternsI did indeed, Todd, and your thoughts as usual are cogent.It's true that the comforts of cheap electricity that I've enjoyedall my life has "raised the bar" of my imagined needs muchhigher than they probably are. Still, it would be very silly tospend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was notsatisfied and end up spending
 the $17,000 to get PGE also.That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what levelof inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, so I'd prefer to erron the side of having excess capacity (which of course Idon't have to use). All your ideas are excellent, and manyof them are already designed in. I expect to run house andshop on maybe 15 kWh per day average, which is muchless than any home I've had before. But one could alwaysdo better. Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be happy and be of service to others?Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take? :-)-K___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel
 and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] degradation of methoxide solution in time

[bob allen]

it's presence (the bicarbonate) won't hurt, but it represents a reduction in 
methoxide so a slower 
reaction.

Rafal Szczesniak wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 08:43:29AM -0500, bob allen wrote:
 the methoxide is reacting with CO2 in the the 4.6 L of air in container, 
 making sodium bicarbonate 
 and or sodium carbonate.
 
 That's what I thought. Although my original idea was that lye itself
 could have reacted with CO2 from air making it less pure NaOH. When
 dissolving in methanol, NaOH gets into the solution and residue is
 Na2CO3. The only question is whether or not, sodium bicarbonate
 affects the biodiesel reaction ?
 
 


-- 
Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral 
philosophy; that is, 
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[Ken Provost]

On Jul 16, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:


 If I had the bucks I suppose all these hi tech appliances would be  
 nice.
 Unfortunately I dont so I have to use what most people use.



I agree -- THOUSANDS of dollars for a refrigeratorsheesh!


 I think if you pump your own water 30 kWhrs a day is more realistic.


That's already on its own PV array :-)

-K

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] CRP Program

[JJJN]

/My note: I found this article about CRP on the web, One other real 
world problem with the program is Farmers heard it coming or in other 
words they quickly placed thousands of acres of prairie that only the 
bravest of fools would cultivate for a crop then converted them into CRP 
because they knew in advance about the program. Our government never 
ceases in its folly or stupidity when  it comes to the  uses of western 
lands  - both Public and Private.  I find it interesting that wild life 
managers have defined success at least partially on the existence of a 
non native species!

HERE IS THE ARTICLE

Editor's note: This issue continues with another article related to 
endangered species written by Montana wildlife biologist Craig Knowles./

by Craig Knowles

In the past few years, wildlife managers and the popular press have 
reported astounding wildlife successes resulting from the Conservation 
Reserve Program (CRP). Claims include increased pheasant and duck 
populations and greater bird densities in grasslands.

The Department of Agriculture, which administers the program, says that 
the program has saved many tons of soil from erosion, conserved 
thousands of gallons of fuel due to reduced cultivation, and reduced the 
application of fertilizers, herbicides, and insecticides. The Fish  
Wildlife Service says that the CRP really costs nothing because it is 
cheaper to pay farmers not to grow crops than to pay the subsidies 
farmers get when they do grow crops.

The Conservation Reserve Program pays farmers not to grow crops on some 
of their acres. Farmers generally pick their least productive acres. 
Those are often also the most erodible lands, but they are not 
necessarily the best acres for wildlife.

Unfortunately, the program has a dark side that few have reported. As it 
is implemented, CRP has produced a steady decline in grassland 
biodiversity. The problem is that the Food Securities Act of 1985 
permits sodbusting provided that farmers file a conservation plan with 
the Soils (now Natural Resources) Conservation Service.

A farmer in southwestern Wisconsin received CRP funds to set aside some 
acres previously used for croplands in a conservation reserve. The 
farmer used the funds to buy a bulldozer and promptly cleared several 
acres of woodlands and planted corn--even though the land was less 
suited to corn than the land in his conservation reserve. The farmer's 
conservation plan was simply a signed statement that he would not plant 
the newly busted cropland more than two years out of eight.

A Montana farmer planted wheat on two square miles of prairie that had 
previously been habitat for mountain plover and long-billed cerlews. The 
SCS district conservationist says that the farmer's conservation plan 
simply addressed soil erosion and did not consider wildlife habitat.

If you are growing wheat in Montana, CRP is almost to good to be true. 
First, the federal government pays you to grow the wheat. Then the 
Conservation Reserve Program pays you not to grow the wheat. Then you 
can take those payments and plant wheat elsewhere and get paid to grow 
it there. This is the most sensible use of your conservation payments 
because wheat farming requires big expensive machinery that can only be 
paid for by spreading around to as many acres as possible.

Montana farmers planted 95 percent of their CRP lands in crested wheat 
grass or another monocultural, non-native grass. This is hardly 
beneficial for biodiversity. Meanwhile, native prairies are plowed 
under. The SCS makes no attempt to monitor such double dipping, but 
evidence--though sparse--is available.

In 1989, Jim Stutzman, working with the Fish  Wildlife Service, 
documented sodbusting of more than 56,000 acres of native prairie in 
five Montana counties between 1987 and 1989. Background checks showed 
that nearly a third of the sodbusters were enrolled in the CRP. The only 
official attempt to track the consequences of CRP ended when the Fish  
Wildlife Service abruptly transferred Stutzman to another location.

During our own surveys of mountain plover in central Montana, we have 
seen CRP fields with dense stands of crested wheat grass immediately 
adjacent to wheat fields with freshly installed fence posts and wires. 
The Stutzman report showed us what this meant: rangelands converted to 
cropland.

Since the Conservation Reserve Program began in 1985, 2.8 million acres 
of Montana farmland had been enrolled in CRPs. This suggests that there 
would be a measurable decline in crop acreage planted each year, as well 
as in other indicators such as fertilizers sold and grain harvested.

Yet Montana agricultural statistics reveal no such decline. The total 
number of acres planted in grains decreased from 1985 to 1988, but 
jumped to record levels in 1989. Since then it has declined somewhat, 
but 

[Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[doug swanson]

I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more 
valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health 
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to 
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all 
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of 
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater 
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies 
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced 
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is 
sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been 
working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic 
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it 
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of 
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal 
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) 
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon 
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... 

I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read 
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas 
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've 
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, 
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, 
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving 
parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to 
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of 
its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the 
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually, 
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step 
by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point 
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff 
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power 
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another 
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat 
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, 
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator 
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable 
without huge expense.

The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a 
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, 
but first things first...

Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess 
this planet is in, I will do.

doug swanson



Jason Katie wrote:

you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i 
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, 
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well 
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's 
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt


  

Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:



good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

US 'could be going bankrupt'
By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
(Filed: 14/07/2006)


The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
country's central bank.
A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already
bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the
United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped
bare, destitute, bereft, 

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...solar and wind

[Kirk McLoren]

years ago I penciled a 20x20 section of a parabola (cassegrain) and proposed storing thermal energy as latent heat in a m3 of FeCl. As I recall it was comprable to 5 US gallons of gasoline. I think the phase change was around 600F. Since the aperture to the thermal storage was the focal point and it re expanded before hitting the receiving media reradiation was reduced. Proposed insulation was foam glass which is used commercially by the refrigeration industry.  The solar concentrator plans Teton has may be a good starting point. Redrok is another good resource.  All the best  KirkBTW photos of the worlds least expensive windmill for pumping water should be soon. All I have left to do are the sails. Is basically a Persian windmill but I have dispensed with the wall and made it omnidirectional by making the sails self furling. A merrygoround and bedsheets. 
 :)doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies on restaurant "wastes" and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
 working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving parts. Heat goes in,
 electricity comes out. I really would like to build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually, when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step by step guidance will be under the "open information license" The point of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator (junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable without huge expense.The efficiency
 of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, but first things first...Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess this planet is in, I will do.doug swansonJason Katie wrote:you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's and politicians) that are screwed.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PMSubject: Re:
 [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" Um, it's not really "they" it's "us" too...Jason Katie wrote:___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the  all-new 

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[JJJN]

Excuse me Doug but could you let me know what

TEOTWAWKI

is and what happens when it happens?

I feel perfectly ignorant,

Jim

doug swanson wrote:

I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more 
valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health 
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to 
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all 
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of 
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater 
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies 
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced 
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is 
sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been 
working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic 
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it 
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of 
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal 
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) 
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon 
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... 

I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read 
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas 
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've 
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, 
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, 
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving 
parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to 
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of 
its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the 
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually, 
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step 
by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point 
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff 
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power 
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another 
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat 
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, 
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator 
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable 
without huge expense.

The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a 
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, 
but first things first...

Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess 
this planet is in, I will do.

doug swanson



Jason Katie wrote:

  

you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i 
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, 
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well 
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's 
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt


 



Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:

   

  

good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

   - Original Message -
   *From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
   *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
   *Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
   bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

   US 'could be going bankrupt'
   By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
   (Filed: 14/07/2006)


   The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
   extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
   country's central bank.
   A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
   could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
   research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
   Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
   Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already
   bankrupt. 

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[doug swanson]

The acronym stands for the end of the world as we know it

doug

JJJN wrote:

Excuse me Doug but could you let me know what

TEOTWAWKI

is and what happens when it happens?

I feel perfectly ignorant,

Jim

doug swanson wrote:

  

I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more 
valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health 
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to 
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all 
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of 
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater 
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies 
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced 
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is 
sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been 
working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic 
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it 
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of 
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal 
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) 
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon 
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... 

I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read 
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas 
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've 
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, 
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, 
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving 
parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to 
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of 
its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the 
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually, 
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step 
by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point 
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff 
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power 
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another 
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat 
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, 
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator 
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable 
without huge expense.

The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a 
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, 
but first things first...

Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess 
this planet is in, I will do.

doug swanson



Jason Katie wrote:

 



you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i 
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, 
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well 
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's 
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt




   

  

Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:

  

 



good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message -
  *From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
  *Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
  bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

  US 'could be going bankrupt'
  By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
  (Filed: 14/07/2006)


  The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
  extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
  country's central bank.
  A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
  could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
  research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
  Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal 

Re: [Biofuel] By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists

[leo bunyan]

The problem seems to be when they leave the militaryAlan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D. Mindock wrote: *By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic  Terrorists*[snip] The U.S. government can't sit around, waiting for the next Timothy  McVeigh to reveal himself. By identifying and discharging known  extremists from the military, we can stop future domestic terrorists in  their tracks. Taxpayer dollars should not pay for White Supremacy Boot  Camp. The military is supposed to protect all of America, not train  those who plan to wreak havoc on its citizens.  /Judge Greg Mathis is national vice president of Rainbow PUSH and a  national board member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference./I
 disagree.By kicking them out of the military we're more likely to, in their minds, justify their antigovernment mindset, and hasten rather than delay their attacks on the United States.  Just kicking them out of the military will _not_ stop them in their tracks.A better idea would be to do enough of a background check to keep them out in the first place.Keep in mind also, that while they're in the military it's easier, a LOT easier to keep an eye on them.A yet better idea would be to stop the costly international adventures that require high numbers of new recruits.AP___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
 (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		On Yahoo!7 
 
Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists

[Jonathan Hardin]

Or, Just make sure that they are on the front lines of such combat locations to increase their chances of not being a threat to the people of the United StatesJ. HardinOn 7/16/06, 
Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
D. Mindock wrote: *By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists*[snip] The U.S. government can't sit around, waiting for the next Timothy McVeigh to reveal himself. By identifying and discharging known
 extremists from the military, we can stop future domestic terrorists in their tracks. Taxpayer dollars should not pay for White Supremacy Boot Camp. The military is supposed to protect all of America, not train
 those who plan to wreak havoc on its citizens. /Judge Greg Mathis is national vice president of Rainbow PUSH and a national board member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference./
I disagree.By kicking them out of the military we're more likely to, in theirminds, justify their antigovernment mindset, and hasten rather thandelay their attacks on the United States.Just kicking them out of the
military will _not_ stop them in their tracks.A better idea would be to do enough of a background check to keep themout in the first place.Keep in mind also, that while they're in the military it's easier, a LOT
easier to keep an eye on them.A yet better idea would be to stop the costly international adventuresthat require high numbers of new recruits.AP___
Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Jonathan Hardin
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming

[Appal Energy]

I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on 
paper, you should be the one to polish the words.

As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously 
inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon.

A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to 
us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system).

B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / 
desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is 
capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who 
exercise indiscretion.

C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent 
mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our 
personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This 
includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives 
are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision 
making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming 
mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?)

D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred 
deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other 
immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or 
multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in 
the pursuit of self-interest?

But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and 
leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing 
that we are civilized?

Todd Swearingen


Michael wrote:

Some comments added between
***
and


Very Respectfully,

Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com

- Original Message - 
From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming


I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps
some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a
letter to the editor any help out there?

A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on
the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for
Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of
Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming?
Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind
“and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39.

Less than 100 years ago a tyrant ruled in Germany and he persecuted a
people known as Jews. Now it is arguable to say that this was prophetic
and would happen with or without intervention from men. From this, one
may try to justify inaction as Gods will and watch this happen. Men of
all creeds have always been good at justification of evil deeds as a way
to seek safety from any dangers or concerns that would go along with
intervention of such. But what is remarkable is that some people were
saved because some people could not justify inaction within themselves
and they made a choice against the tide.
*
God's will is that all of his children have a good life.  It is our will 
that
makes our lives not good lives, not God's
**
The time has come for Christians of faith to make a choice.

Now consider this, within the next 10 years hundreds of thousands of
people face death as a direct result of global warming. How we choose
TODAY will have a direct impact on the number of graves needed in the
next decade –our neighbor’s graves. No, we won’t smell the stench of
death and many will tell you that I have been out in the sun to long and
then the good old justifications start…. How remarkably similar to the
responses of Pharisees .

As for me I will stand by my neighbor as best I can, as this is where
Christ said to stand.
***
I will daily ask Christ:
What will make a difference towards your will today?
***

It makes no difference if global warming is part of prophecy that is to
come no matter what. Judas was part of prophecy as well and Jesus stood
by him to the very end as friend

expecting him to help with his mission to redeem our world.
*

allowing him every chance to repent?

In other words they may dig graves in the next ten years but it will not
be a result of my response to global warming.

Jim





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[JJJN]

Oh,
That happened almost 6 years ago right?
Ironic Florida should be one of the first states under water.

Ok thanks,excuse my folly and ignorance, carry on.

Jim

doug swanson wrote:

The acronym stands for the end of the world as we know it

doug

JJJN wrote:

  

Excuse me Doug but could you let me know what

TEOTWAWKI

is and what happens when it happens?

I feel perfectly ignorant,

Jim

doug swanson wrote:

 



I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more 
valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health 
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to 
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all 
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of 
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater 
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies 
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced 
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is 
sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been 
working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic 
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it 
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of 
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal 
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) 
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon 
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... 

I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read 
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas 
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've 
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, 
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, 
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving 
parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to 
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of 
its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the 
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually, 
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step 
by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point 
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff 
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power 
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another 
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat 
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, 
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator 
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable 
without huge expense.

The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a 
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, 
but first things first...

Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess 
this planet is in, I will do.

doug swanson



Jason Katie wrote:



   

  

you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i 
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, 
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well 
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life 
(CEO's 
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt




  

 



Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:

 



   

  

good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
 *Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
 bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

 US 'could be going bankrupt'
 By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
 (Filed: 14/07/2006)


 The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
 extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
 country's central bank.
 A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare 

Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming

[JJJN]

Todd,
Points all well taken, see below.

Appal Energy wrote:

I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on 
paper, you should be the one to polish the words.
  

Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that 
targets a specific audience.  The list has already given me several 
angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself 
only, you can see the example of the  narrow perspective that I thought 
of beginning this thread.

As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously 
inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon.
  

I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to 
save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They 
only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where 
they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true

A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to 
us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system).

B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / 
desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is 
capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who 
exercise indiscretion.

C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent 
mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our 
personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This 
includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives 
are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision 
making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming 
mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?)
  

I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven 
advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing 
people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one?

D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred 
deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other 
immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or 
multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in 
the pursuit of self-interest?
  

It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point.

But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and 
leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing 
that we are civilized?

Todd Swearingen
  

Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken.

Jim


Michael wrote:

  

Some comments added between
***
and


Very Respectfully,

Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com

- Original Message - 
From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming


I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps
some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a
letter to the editor any help out there?

A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on
the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for
Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of
Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming?
Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind
“and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39.

Less than 100 years ago a tyrant ruled in Germany and he persecuted a
people known as Jews. Now it is arguable to say that this was prophetic
and would happen with or without intervention from men. From this, one
may try to justify inaction as Gods will and watch this happen. Men of
all creeds have always been good at justification of evil deeds as a way
to seek safety from any dangers or concerns that would go along with
intervention of such. But what is remarkable is that some people were
saved because some people could not justify inaction within themselves
and they made a choice against the tide.
*
God's will is that all of his children have a good life.  It is our will 
that
makes our lives not good lives, not God's
**
The time has come for Christians of faith to make a choice.

Now consider this, within the next 10 years hundreds of thousands of
people face death as a direct result of global warming. How we choose
TODAY will have a direct impact on the number of graves needed in the
next decade –our neighbor’s graves. No, we won’t smell the stench of
death and many will tell you that I have been out in the sun to long and
then the good old justifications start…. How remarkably similar to the
responses of Pharisees .

As for me I will stand by my neighbor as best I can, as this is where
Christ 

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[doug swanson]

It happens every morning of every day in my life...  as far back as I 
can remember.  As world events accelerate, it's more like every minute 
of every day in my life.

it gives me something new every day to learn, and to adapt to.
doug


JJJN wrote:

Oh,
That happened almost 6 years ago right?
Ironic Florida should be one of the first states under water.

Ok thanks,excuse my folly and ignorance, carry on.

Jim

doug swanson wrote:

  

The acronym stands for the end of the world as we know it

doug

JJJN wrote:

 



Excuse me Doug but could you let me know what

TEOTWAWKI

is and what happens when it happens?

I feel perfectly ignorant,

Jim

doug swanson wrote:



   

  

I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more 
valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health 
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to 
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all 
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of 
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater 
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies 
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced 
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is 
sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been 
working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic 
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it 
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of 
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal 
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., ) 
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon 
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall... 

I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read 
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas 
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've 
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting, 
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems, 
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving 
parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to 
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of 
its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the 
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually, 
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step 
by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point 
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff 
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power 
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another 
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat 
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control, 
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator 
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable 
without huge expense.

The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a 
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also, 
but first things first...

Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess 
this planet is in, I will do.

doug swanson



Jason Katie wrote:



  

 



you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, 
i 
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, 
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty 
well 
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life 
(CEO's 
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt




 



   

  

Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:



   

  

 



good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

US 

Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt

[Jason Katie]

the truest and best answer to any TEOTWAWKI situation in america is to start 
farms that grow fruits, wildgrasses, vegetables, oil crops, sugar crops, 
meat animals, and trees...oh wait WE CANT, that takes work and most fat lazy 
americans wont want to be inconvenienced by some dirty work. (this is 
assuming america sticks its nose ito something that gets us our neck 
snapped, and considering our track record of late i wouldnt be surprised.)
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US 
could be going bankrupt


I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
 valuable than gold.  Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
 maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
 get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
 skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
 communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.

 Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
 currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
 on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
 hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
 sustainable.  Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
 working in that direction, but with a twist.  The 10' parabolic
 collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
 immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
 battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
 when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
 it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
 drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...

 I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
 everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
 into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
 got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
 etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
 and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
 parts.  Heat goes in, electricity comes out.  I really would like to
 build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
 its parts.  Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
 parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this.  Eventually,
 when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
 by step guidance will be under the open information license  The point
 of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
 that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
 generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks.  Adding another
 collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
 circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
 etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
 (junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
 without huge expense.

 The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
 hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
 but first things first...

 Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
 this planet is in, I will do.

 doug swanson



 Jason Katie wrote:

you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, 
i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty 
well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life 
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt




Um, it's not really they it's us too...

Jason Katie wrote:



good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?

Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml

US 'could be going bankrupt'
  

[Biofuel] New Zealand initiative

[Bob Molloy]

Hi all,
 Here's the 
latest initiative on the biofuel front in New Zealand. Note the cost and the 
payback time for fleet owners. Prices are in NZ dollars, currently trading at 65 
US cents.
Regards,
Bob.

Put an olive in your 
tank

Well not quite, but if David Renwick has his way it 
could be olive oil or even used cooking oil for that matter - once it has been 
refined into biodiesel.His conversion kit, which allows diesel engines to 
run on biodiesel offers considerably lower fuel costs and higher efficiency. 
He demonstrated both in Kerikeri this week with a late model SUV, modified 
to run on either standard diesel or biofuels, or a mix of the two. To illustrate 
his vehicle's versatility he urged his audience to pour a range of 
standardcookng oils into the tank while the engine was running. A test 
drive showed good acceleration, no smoke from the exhaust and an absence of 
diesel smell. Instead a slight fragrance of Mom's kitchen. .Renwick, 
Operations Director of Envirocar - a company he grew from a garage-based idea 
four years ago into a national organisation, is an enthusiastic exponent of the 
new wave of environmentally friendly fuels. He claims his fuel gives cleaner 
burning engines, lower emissions, efficiencies of 15% or more and 
costshalf that of standard diesel. Asked the hard questions as to 
cost, availability, payback time and risk to vehicle warranty Renwick was open 
and frank. Biofuel supplied by his organisation currently costs 69 cents a litre 
(against the present Kerikeri price of diesel at $1.26), the conversation kit 
(fitted by a trained technician) comes in at $4,000 and includes a 1,000 litre 
storage tank for your backyard. Payback time depended on mileage i.e. 
the further you travelled on an annual basis the faster you could amortise the 
cost of conversation. For one large diesel fleet in Wellington it was four 
months. Any diesel engine, even those used on farm machinery, could be converted 
to biofuel.By agreement with car makers the fuel was acceptable. Conversion 
was limited to the fuel lines only and did not affect engine warranties. As a 
backup, Envirocar-converted vehicles retained a separate tank for ordinary 
diesel. Envirocar is supported by Korean car maker SSangYong and the 
Foundation for Research, Science and Technology which this year pumped in 
$93,000 to take the operation from backyard to production line. 
Interested biofuellers can contact Mr Renwick at [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] THE ENERGY OF EMPTY SPACE THAT ISN'T ZERO

[D. Mindock]

This 
is an interesting page which includes a video of Lawrence Krauss discussing the 
perplexing
problems confronting today's physicists, 
theorists,and cosmologists. Peace, D. Mindock

THE ENERGY OF EMPTY 
SPACE THAT ISN'T ZERO [7.6.06] 
A Talk with 
Lawrence Krauss 


Introduction
Physicist/cosmologist Lawrence Krauss, who recently was featured on 
Edge ("How Do You 
Fed-ex the Pope?"), recently convened a physics conference on St. Thomas, 
which included an all-star cast of cutting-edge theorists and physicists. 
Much more at: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/krauss06/krauss06.2_index.html
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] cut desalination cost by 75%

[Kirk McLoren]

http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=16977ch=nanotechCheap Drinking Water from the Ocean  Carbon nanotube-based membranes will dramatically cut the cost of desalination.  By Aditi Risbud  A carbon-nanotube membrane (quarter shown for scale). The nanotubes are located at the center of each square. Despite their tiny size, they can filter water more efficiently than current larger membranes.
 (Credit: Science)  A water desalination system using carbon nanotube-based membranes could significantly reduce the cost of purifying water from the ocean. The technology could potentially provide a solution to water shortages both in the United States, where populations are expected to soar in areas with few freshwater sources, and worldwide, where a lack of clean water is a major cause of disease. The new membranes, developed by researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL), could reduce the cost of desalination by 75 percent, compared to reverse osmosis methods used today, the researchers say.  
		 Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?

[manuel cilia]

Dear Kevin,
With energy efficient appliances you must weigh up the cost of the appliance 
compared to how much it reduces the cost of the power system. For e.g if a 
frig/freezer uses a third of all your power and you could half the energy 
consumed by those appliances then the size of batteries, solar panels and 
fuel consumed would also reduce. typically you could reduce 1-1.5 solar 
panels, save at least 1 hour of generator running time per day and reduce 
your battery bank size to 3/4 of the original size. If you add all those 
savings together you would gain more than the cost of an energy efficient 
frig.
- Original Message - 
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?



 On Jul 16, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:


 If I had the bucks I suppose all these hi tech appliances would be
 nice.
 Unfortunately I dont so I have to use what most people use.



 I agree -- THOUSANDS of dollars for a refrigeratorsheesh!


 I think if you pump your own water 30 kWhrs a day is more realistic.


 That's already on its own PV array :-)

 -K

 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/