Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Fred-buddy, We're all on the same side here, lets not fight. Maybe you are mixing me up with somebody else, maybe I should specify Ryan P (although I haven't noticed another Ryan). I've read all of JtF that I could find (well, not every different processor design, some incorporate things I'm not interested in), some parts multiple, multiple times (like Start Here). The only two questions I'VE asked are "why did JtF reprocessing directions make me soap" and "is overprocessing possible." Neither was actually answered by this list. Some guy who hates JtF suggested an answer for the soap and I figurd out overprocessing on my own by allowing it overprocess and looking for problems...none; actually the best test batch I've made so far. Now I looked and looked for overprocessing in the archives, and that doesn't mean its not there by a different name, but I didn't find it. And, as an aircraft mechanic, if I looked at your processor and saw hardware that was mismatched and other things that were obviously cobbled together just to use what was free, I would question your skill as a mechanic as well as the function of your machine, but... "We need to show people that this can be done with crap, looks like crap and runs like a top." "They can do this without the "Professional system."" I absolutely conceed this point; you are absolutly right, and this could be even more condeeming/ convincing than my system. Mine hardly looks "professional" though: no FuelMeister-all-looks-no-function here, just clean paint on the heater and a nice, clear, HDPE separator tank. Ryan P. From: "Fred Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:40:06 -0500 Ryan, With your 8 years of education in engineering, biology, chemestry etc, etc... were you ever required to READ a manual? You have been directed to look at the available resources on numerous occasions and you have arrived here asking questions that the answers are clearly posted at Journey to Forever. You were pointed to them. There were even links. The element of responsibility has also escaped you. I don't want to get to far into that because it would be wasted. Let's just say that you are not the only one who lives on the planet and leave it at that. I am an aircraft mechanic by trade. Perhaps I should make my processor fly in order to be credible. I have converted others to the idea that they can do this without the "Professional system." We need to show people that this can be done with crap, looks like crap and runs like a top. fred On 5/17/06, Ryan Pope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Fred, First, for background, I'm an engineer. It's ALL cost/gain analysis; it can always be build better, but its not worth the cost. OK now, I'm not looking for finacial gain, but rather prevention of financial loss. Where I am in my life right now means I am driving 90+ miles a day for work. I'm dropping $80 a week on diesel. PLUS, I LVE driving. I'm a driver; pack up the wife and daughter in the truck, and take a nice long trip down the unexplored backroads for a week. If I have to even CONSIDER not taking a vacation like this because of the fuel cost, then that is just beyond horrible. Once I switch to B100, no concerns. Once I switch my wife to B100, even better. I don't want to sell my biodiesel, just make enough for my family. And as far as the learning curve, not to be an ass, but mine wasn't steep. I've gone to college for biology, chemistry, chemical processing, and engineerring for the last,...oh-boy...8 years. So far there has been nothing involved that I haven't already done a half-dozen times in one organic chemistry lab or another, its just putting it all together and learning the nuances. >"I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than >conventional fuels." I did; not ashamed of that. >"I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have." That is just a fabulous side effect for me. And because those people I know, also know ME (and my background), seeing me convert to alternate fuel lends creditability to it and makes them consider twice just writing it off as some hippie, greenie adventure. (no offense to you hippie, greenies on the list, but you know as well as I do how you are sometime seen). So this brings me to "cost". Yes, I could build a system using recycled parts for next to nothing; but it would look like crap (again, no offense. I am the king of function over form for almost everything). But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINE
Re: [Biofuel] Ryan's "costs" experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ryan's "costs" experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 06:10:20 +0900
Wow, Ryan, you missed every point going!
It's late now, all I have time for is this. Quite a remarkable thing
to say without checking, especially since it was posted here just
recently, and in a "PLEASE READ" message, which all members are
obliged to read. Did you read it?
Obviously not close enough. Isn't PLEASE READ usually reserved for spam
these days?
-SNIP-
Please check this, from last week's message:
>http://snipurl.com/q26x
>biodiesel - Google Search
>
>http://snipurl.com/q26p
>biodiesel mailing list - Google Search
>
>(Actually that's very annoying! It's NOT a biodiesel mailing list!)
You're completely wrong - it IS at the top of Google, so is the
Biofuel list, and I see nothing there about FuelMeisters or
Crappleseeds.
Which Google were you looking at? If you didn't check it first why
did you say it with such confidence?
I'm wrong, I suck; I wonder what my Google was smoking that day? I speak
with confidence because I KNOW I found JtF through Biodiesel Warehouse.
When I followed their link I went, "DUDE! Why was this so hard to find!
This is everything!" No explainantion, just apologies, again, I was wrong.
-SNIP-
You're experienced, you're an engineer ("ENGINEER"), but I'm not,
what I know about it is just from being a list member. But I designed
an original reactor that's now widely used, and you seem to have
wasted at least five times as much money on a Crappleseed that you
had to come to us to learn how to fix.
What's with that?
I've never run it yet, so its not broke. I just know from JtF what is going
to be sub-adaquate, and how to address it before it comes up.
Also this, from your reply to Fred:
>... But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend
>creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking
>system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for
>engineering.
So you bought a Crappleseed that didn't work properly.
It could have worked fine, I just made changes based on other's experiences.
No point inventing the wheel twice.
It all seems rather disconnected, isn't it?
Also, I'm sorry to have to tell you that your remarks about OPEC are
right out of line in a multinational community such as this one,
which includes many people from OPEC countries, and your language is
most objectionable. Please withdraw it and apologise.
No disrespect intended, and I've truly sorry if any was felt; but
"people" from a country are not the country. Just look at my own for
example...yikes...
And mentioning my rear end is light compared to some of this things I've
seen here regarding the current administration of the USA. But no blood, no
foul; I don't take it personally. I'm here to lear n and expect to have to
wade through some muck to find the knowledge.
Ryan P.
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner
>I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short
answers.
>
>
>>On 5/17/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hello Ryan
>>>
>>> > I'm building the processsor and running test batches
>>> >simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible.
>>>You said you started the wrong way round:
>
>Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see
>FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them.
>
>>>
>>> >Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just
>>> >about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie.
>>>
>
>
> Thought I had it build, according to "Crappleseed", as you put it,
>ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far.
>Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge
>the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the
>good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself.
>
>
>>>Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round:
>>>
>>>"Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor.
>>>The processor comes later."
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start
>>>
>>>"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even
>>>using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the
>>>process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the
>>>process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of
>>>what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building
>>>the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first."
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving
>
>
>All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever
>"Biodiesel" is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue
>to start with a processor
[Biofuel] Ryan's "costs" experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short answers. >On 5/17/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>Hello Ryan >> >> > I'm building the processsor and running test batches >> >simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. >> >>You said you started the wrong way round: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. >> >> >Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just >> >about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. >> Thought I had it build, according to "Crappleseed", as you put it, ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. >>Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: >> >>"Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. >>The processor comes later." >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start >> >>"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even >>using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the >>process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the >>process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of >>what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building >>the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first." >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever "Biodiesel" is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. >> >> >I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. >> >>Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. >>People are always asking about costs. Just hardware I don't already have; only money I actually spend. Water heater, inductor tank, plumbing, vacuum/compressor pump, beakers, graduated cylinders. The chemical supplies would go into the cost/gallon of biofuel that offsets the cost/gallon of the OPEC fuel. >> >>What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor, >>let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a >>few hours over a couple of days. >> >>Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). >>and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learned >>really a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, >>so I don't know how to cost it. True, and this is the ONLY reason my processor has come together so quickly. I've scanned every processor construction idea and have pulled ideas and insights from every one to build I processor I can understand. And I think that's the most important part. There are alot of you running systems I don't follow, so I'm not using your ideas. I need to understand my processor so I can make it work, not just copy somebody else. >The processor works very well >>though >>and now lots of people have built them, Mine has yet to be seen, but because so many have come before me, I have full confidence. >and they also got it for >>nothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have to >>take in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, >>you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about the >>costs. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the free >>processor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take a >>money economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed >>can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as a >>churchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too good >>at costings, and I end up completely confused about how a person >>would go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so >>complicated about it, but it's worth a thought. Here's the bottomline, as I see it, for how I am recuperating my costs. Say I spend $500 to build a processor. Once its running, I'm paying only $1 a gallon to fuel my truck ($0.70 for supplies, $.30 for road tax to my state). Meaning for every gallon I burn, I'm preventing the loss of $2 I would have had to spent to burn that gallon of fuel. To recup. my $500, I only need to burn 250 gallons of my biodiesel in situations where I would have had to purchase OPEC diesel. >> >>Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two months >>ago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development time >>in the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
Listen to this guy, not me...I said I was rusty. :) Ryan From: "Logan Vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:37:40 -0500 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help This means basically that at 300K average temperature, the thermal conductivity is 149 W/(m*K). What the proper units are is actually W*m/(sq meter *K). Two of the meters cancel out to leave just one on the bottom, but it's easier to think of it with them still in there. If you think about trying to calculate heat transfer in watts per square meter, you need to cancel out the m on top of the thermal conductivity, and the K on the bottom. So, you multiply the conductivity by the delta T in Kelvins, which cancels the K. And you divide it by the thickness of the silicon you are transferring heat through (because a thicker piece will transfer less heat), which cancels out the m on top. This leaves units of W/m^2 for the units of the answer, which is what we were looking for. If we want total watts, we can multiply by the area of the heat transfer area, and cancel out the m^2, and are left with just watts. On 5/16/06, logan vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m.K) > > > Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to > read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. > > Logan Vilas > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Fred, First, for background, I'm an engineer. It's ALL cost/gain analysis; it can always be build better, but its not worth the cost. OK now, I'm not looking for finacial gain, but rather prevention of financial loss. Where I am in my life right now means I am driving 90+ miles a day for work. I'm dropping $80 a week on diesel. PLUS, I LVE driving. I'm a driver; pack up the wife and daughter in the truck, and take a nice long trip down the unexplored backroads for a week. If I have to even CONSIDER not taking a vacation like this because of the fuel cost, then that is just beyond horrible. Once I switch to B100, no concerns. Once I switch my wife to B100, even better. I don't want to sell my biodiesel, just make enough for my family. And as far as the learning curve, not to be an ass, but mine wasn't steep. I've gone to college for biology, chemistry, chemical processing, and engineerring for the last,...oh-boy...8 years. So far there has been nothing involved that I haven't already done a half-dozen times in one organic chemistry lab or another, its just putting it all together and learning the nuances. "I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than conventional fuels." I did; not ashamed of that. "I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have." That is just a fabulous side effect for me. And because those people I know, also know ME (and my background), seeing me convert to alternate fuel lends creditability to it and makes them consider twice just writing it off as some hippie, greenie adventure. (no offense to you hippie, greenies on the list, but you know as well as I do how you are sometime seen). So this brings me to "cost". Yes, I could build a system using recycled parts for next to nothing; but it would look like crap (again, no offense. I am the king of function over form for almost everything). But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for engineering. So I bought an inductor tank from a fertilized supplier instead of making one from a 50 gallon drum (paid less than half of what the "biodiesel suppliers" want, though). I bought new, clean, shiny plumbing, fittings, and hot water heater, from the absolute lowest cost sources I could find. So there were costs, which will be recuperated in under 5 months in fuel savings. OK, I'm going to cut this email off, and address Keith's comments in another, because I think that's a separate topic. Ryan From: "Fred Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:36:57 -0500 Hi Keith, Costs Hmmm...Return on Investments... When we start are all steep on the learning curve. Access to information is the key issue not access to the junk needed to build the processor. I did not begin to process a single drop of biodiesel until I read how to make small batches. My first batches were small. Single liter batches and scales measuring lye and methanol mixed in clear detergent bottles. PH strips for titration and some virgin corn oil. I made several batches using different oils and titrating each batch to better understand the process as I did it. The first small batches that I made probably cost under $10.00US.It turned into nice fuel. I believe my return on investment was far worth more than I put in and was evident when I burned the first batch in my little single cylinder diesel engine. I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than conventional fuels. I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have. It was an opportunity to remove something from the waste stream (WVO) and reuse it. Return on Investment? I have given away more biodiesel to people who want to try it than I have made for myself. I teach the basics to people who want to learn, (4 so far) and then we build a processor that will work for them (4 so far.) If they want me to make fuel for them I point them to a distributor of biodiesel and wish them luck. My time was better spent learning and teaching this than I could have imaginged. If I was looking for some financial gain from this, I am looking for the wrong thing. I believe that Ryan is looking finacial gain. Too bad for him. fred _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeyt
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
Well, I'm a little rusty but I'll see what I can recall. I could dig out my Transport Phenomena notes, but that would bring back alot of bad memories. So this is a 300 K temperature difference across the silicon whatever? So, perhaps, silicon will transfer 149 W of energy for every meter of separation of the temperatrure extremes for every unit K of temperature difference across the substrate. I think this is a simplified formula maybe? One that assumes a cylindrical rod of silicon (or some other standard shape), perhaps? Ryan From: "logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:23:37 -0500 Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m·K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need to reprocess that I had problems with. The one following that just took a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last one turned out absolutely perfectly. I put the sum of the second two batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)! But it was $1.18 I didn't have to spent at the pump! This weekend; my first WVO test batches. Hooray! Ryan From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 05:07:47 +0900 >I bought my processor assembly kit from there. He can assemble >plumbing fitting kits for less than I can buy the fittings for. > > Ryan But you're still having problems with test batches aren't you Ryan? Bit early to be messing with processor. We used recycled plumbing fittings, didn't cost anything. Best Keith >>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 04:37:36 +0900 >> >>Hi Jesse >> >> >Anyone seen this? Thoughts? Jesse >> > >> >http://www.diyfuel.com/ca/ >> >>Yeah, it's the guy in the US who has Darryl Hannah on his site. >> >>I like this bit here: >> >>http://www.diyfuel.com/index.php?cPath=34 >> >>"Biodiesel facts", with the whole section lifted straight from >>Journey to Forever. He says so, and puts it on a link that says: >>"www.journeytoforever.org", which is wrong, it should be >>journeytoforever.org, no www - it would work anyway, but instead of >>linking to JtF it links to the NBB: >>http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/1998/0498.pdf >> >>"The page cannot be found". >> >>LOL! >> >>You have to pick and choose. Some good stuff, lots of junk too, and >>he doesn't tell you which is which. He's okay, but you need to get >>good info elsewhere first. Sells Crappleseeds, still with the same >>old pump that's too small, and they're not cheap, but at least >>they're not FuelMeisters. Build yer own. >> >>Best >> >>Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
I bought my processor assembly kit from there. He can assemble plumbing fitting kits for less than I can buy the fittings for. Ryan From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 04:37:36 +0900 Hi Jesse >Anyone seen this? Thoughts? Jesse > >http://www.diyfuel.com/ca/ Yeah, it's the guy in the US who has Darryl Hannah on his site. I like this bit here: http://www.diyfuel.com/index.php?cPath=34 "Biodiesel facts", with the whole section lifted straight from Journey to Forever. He says so, and puts it on a link that says: "www.journeytoforever.org", which is wrong, it should be journeytoforever.org, no www - it would work anyway, but instead of linking to JtF it links to the NBB: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/1998/0498.pdf "The page cannot be found". LOL! You have to pick and choose. Some good stuff, lots of junk too, and he doesn't tell you which is which. He's okay, but you need to get good info elsewhere first. Sells Crappleseeds, still with the same old pump that's too small, and they're not cheap, but at least they're not FuelMeisters. Build yer own. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP
try http:\\www.chemfinder.com From: "Alex Mashego" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] HELP Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:32:48 +0200 hi guys i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you help me in this regard. thank you regards Alex ___ For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] gelled rebatch
I attempeted to post this last week. Didn't come through due to glitches of some sort. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I made my first small batch last Wednesday, and it turned out OK; I thought it had a little too much soapiness, so I reprocessed it. 100ml methnol, 3.5g NaOH, 1.5hrs, as per directions. After settling, I had a nasty lump of gelled stuff. I thought maybe it was the cold, it did get down to 45-50 F that night. Brought the jug indoors overnight. Nope, still thick. Better, but still gooey. Anyway, can you overprocess? What happens if you do? Thanks, Ryan *-*-*-*-*-*-* SINCE THEN; I'm thinking it was all the container I used. It was a LDPE container, and I think the finished diesel dissolved some plastic that the SVO the first time didn't. Add heat, and it dissolved even more. My original question is still valid though...can you OVERprocess? And what happens? And my second small trial batch is settling right now...so far so good. Ryan _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List
With some sort of per gallon fuel discount for gallons of good quality oil (WVO, SVO, crop mass, whatever) donated to the fuel production measure...it's crossed my mind a few times. Ryan From: "M&K DuPree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 10:27:44 -0500 Mike...during your neigborhood conversion from "neighborhood crank to having a steady stream of visitors and questions about BD," are the neighbors changing? If so, how? One of my concerns in my post in response to Keith is that not everyone will have the ability/interest to set up their own BD plant, as well as have access to feedstock. It seems to me, since you are already set up with some kind of access to feedstock, you could be the new neighborhood "gas pump." Don't you think??? Of course, once you, or someone, becomes this person, the community necessarily transforms your individual production into the need for an "industrial-scale process." In fact, the existence of a community that demands the lifestyle provided by BD or any fuel to run our machinery that gives us this lifestyle must necessarily adopt "industrial-scale" processes. Don't you think?? Presently, I do. Consequently, I'm especially interested in learning about any size community that has developed/is developing "industrial-scale processes (that) fit rational biofuels production," to use Keith's terms. Another Mike - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List > FWIW - I have not bought ANY petro products for almost a year now except > for diesel on one long trip and the least amount of NG as possible for > cooking and showers. I hope to go to BD heating for water, or get my BD > generator running and use electric. I heat with wood. > > I went from being the neighborhood crank to having a steady stream of > visitors and questions about BD > > M&K DuPree wrote: > >>Hi Keith...thanks so much for the links to info on Iogen and cellulosic >>ethanol generally. This whole area is very new to me. Somehow I have >>been >>blind for most of my 54 years to the extent that my lifestyle and general >>"world view" have been dependent upon and propped up by my dependence upon >>oil as an energy source. All of sudden I am seeing how out of my control >>my >>life really is. And to tell you and everyone the truth, I'm damned >>frightened, and angry, and depressed, and then...is that my .38 over >>there??? Somehow I have been able to keep the madness of this world at >>bay, >>but no more, all because of rising oil prices and my subsequently felt >>urgency to research and find alternative energy sources. This research >>has >>led me into the politics of the whole energy arena and ultimately a world >>view that, when I include not just me and mine, but the whole freakin 6.5 >>billion of us (and growing exponentially), has me pretty much freaked. >>Just >>another suburban kid gone over the edge (or perhaps, more accurately, come >>back from having been over the edge into dreamland into the reality of >>limited resources and the need for a stripped down lifestyle that takes >>into >>account the full extent of my actions). This side of the edge, however, >>isn't something I can easily make my own, because, it appears to me, if I >>am >>going to be able to truly regain what little sense of my self I might >>truly >>possess, I must be willing to put my tent on my back and just simply begin >>to wander and then keep wandering until I fall over dead (can't stop by >>the >>local Salvation Army for refreshment...that would only be dipping my toe >>back over the edge into dreamland again). Is this clear...or am I coming >>off as the probable lunatic I might really be??? >> Anyway, so I am curious about your own comments. I'm still reading >>through all the articles connected to the links you have shared, so maybe >>my >>questions will be answered along the way. Nonetheless, I want to ask them >>here: 1) in regards to "how well industrial-scale processes fit rational >>biofuels production," would you please explain in more detail? Also, >>perhaps >>lead me to a model industrial-scale process that DOES fit rational >>biofuels >>production? My immediate response to this has to do with a main point I >>have observed in my own interest in making biofuel: that this is not >>something me and all of my neighbors can do individually for various >>reasons, but especially because of limited feedstock and difficulty of >>distribution. Democracy does not extend to the realm of limited >>resources. >>I believe packaging of product for individuals has promoted this >>appearance. >>Consequently, it appears to me (and I could still be very blind on this >>point), we need some level of industrial-scale processes; and 2) will you >>please explain further how "gobbling u
Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
From what I remember from my botany courses, plant leaves are also very tightly regulated to reduce water loss. A leaf is basically a large, flat surface coursing with fluid; exactly what you would do to promote evaporation. To slow evap., most leaves have passive pores that close in dry conditions as well as a secreted waxy surface. If the FFA were disrupting the waxy surface or causing the pores to open or both, you would get rapid fluid loss, browning, wilting, etc., but the plant would repair and recover in a short time. Gooeyness...hmmm...surface gooeyness? Or the whole leaf is a spongey mess? Maybe the waxy seal balling up like oil drops in water? Ryan From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:25:47 -0400 Bob, In response to my note: "One day later ~24hrs, the leaves were browning and wilted." You wrote: " I sure would like to see some references on the mechanism of this effect." I wonder if the FFAs are disrupting the structure of cell membranes. All cell membranes are phospholipid bilayers with hydrophobic fatty acids pointing inward towards each other and away from water. The hydrophilic phosphates are on the inner and outer surfaces interacting w. water. Replace water w.FFAs and this structure could be compromised. After 24 hrs the leaves are more than wilted, they are gooey (for lack of a better word). I'd be interested in knowing the mechanism as well. I dug up a few treated dandelions 3 - 4 days after treatment. The roots seemed fine. This morning, a week after treatment, some of the sprayed plants are sprouting new leaves and the sickly-looking dandelions have sent up new flowers. The effect does not seem to be systemic. I like that. It seems very effective against a variety of "weeds" that lack tap roots or runners. Tom - Original Message - From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer Howdy Thomas Kelly wrote: > Hi Bob, > What do you mean "a dilute solution"? I sprayed the FFAs, full > strength, on the leaves of some "weeds". I guess my assumption was wrong- when I recover ffa's I get a very viscous liquid which would be hard to spray. but then my wvo is about half saturated fat. > One day later ~24hrs, the leaves were browning and wilted. I think todd also mentioned such an effect. I sure would like to see some references on the mechanism of this effect. > How would I test the pH of FFAs? I use wide range pH paper to test my > wash water. I don't think they'll work on FFAs. try taking a gram or so of your ffa's and add it to about 100ml water. Free fatty acids will not dissolve well and should not change the pH paper reading. I just tried it with a sample of oleic acid. pH of the solution/emulsion was unchanged after adding the oleic acid. > It appears as though some of the weeds I sprayed last week are > sending > up new shoots. I'll try spraying some oleic acid on a plant or two (as soon as it quits raining) and see what happens. > Tom > - Original Message - > From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer > > > howdy Thomas > > I am a little surprised that a dilute solution of ffa's would have any > impact on plant life over a 24 hour period. My guess is that your > solution contains more than ffa's. What is the pH ? how about total > dissolved solids, ie salts ? Do you have any idea of the concentration > of the ffa (in water I assume)? > > Thomas Kelly wrote: >>I've been gardening for over 30 years by essentially "building dirt" >> and caring for my plants from the ground up. >> I've been know to chop off a weed's head now and again or yank them from >> the ground. I've squished "bugs" by the thousands and lured others to >> deadly traps. I've never used a spray that has any real obvious results >> (dead insects or "weeds"). >>I've been splitting my glycerine co-product into FFA's, potassium >> (and some sodium) phosphate, and crude glycerine. >>Yesterday I sprayed FFA's on some weeds in an area of the garden that >> hasn't been turned yet. Today they appear to be dying. It didn't seem to >> discriminate ... dandelions, wild mustard, plantain, grass all >> withering. >>I'm a bit taken back. The sprays I concoct from chives, peppers, >> mulberry leaves etc. are intended to repel/discourage pests. I don't see >> any corpses. It's more a matter of faith or delusion that they are >> working ... I don't care which. Weeds involve physical removal and >> discouragement with thick mulch. >> The "weeds" sprayed w. FFA's appear to be in serious trouble only >> 24 hrs after spraying.
Re: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media
Cool...and not cool. There are other filters that are viscous oil compatible, the Kaydon site just had a really nice video of the process. These would work as a final step to ensure no wash water stayed with your final diesel product, though. Based on what the coalescer media seems to be, something homemade may work. A few overlapping grids of any material that attracted water but not oil would achieve the same results. If I come up with something, I'll share. Ryan From: "Bill Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:36:44 -0500 Hi Ryan, I live about 70 miles from Kaydon Filtration. I talked with them this morning and they told me that this filter will not work on vegetable oil. Sorry. Good thought though. Bill Clark - Original Message - From: "Ryan Pope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media > I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO > that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of > heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. > >Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this > further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is > variations on heating and settling. > > If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the > oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of water > tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that will > then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. > > An example video can be seen at > http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm > >Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. > > Thanks, > > Ryan Pope > > _ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media
That could cetainly work it a Wisconsin winter...the cold is free! Ryan From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:54:01 -0500 what about applejack style dewatering? get it REALLY cold so the oil solidifies, or the water freezes, whichever comes first and screen it out? thats how the old folks used to make apple whiskey for hard cider when my grandma was a kid. - Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Pope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media > I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO > that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of > heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. > > Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this > further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is > variations on heating and settling. > > If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the > oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of > water > tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that > will > then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. > > An example video can be seen at > http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm > > Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. > > Thanks, > > Ryan Pope > > _ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 4/25/2006 > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media
I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO
that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of
heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP.
Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this
further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is
variations on heating and settling.
If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the
oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of water
tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that will
then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media.
An example video can be seen at
http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm
Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet.
Thanks,
Ryan Pope
_
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
___
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