Re: [biofuel] New Distillers FAQ
On Wed, 21 May 2003 09:30 am, Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) wrote: > > "NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Feb'03) > > 3) Will it make me blind ? > > > > Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore, > > which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. > > The concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic > > nerve poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting > > grains or fruits high in pectin. This methanol comes off first from the > > still, so it is easily segregated and discarded. A simple rule of thumb > > for this is to throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L mash > > used). Probably the greatest risk to your health during distilling is the > > risk of fire - collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source. So keep > > a fire extinguisher nearby. *poink* well, that was a load of BS. no documented cases? what about the 2 or 3 dozen people killed in a single incident in China a year or so ago? face it, distilling alcohol for human consumption is not an activity to be taken on lightly. you really need to know what you are doing, have access to high grade equipment and testing facilities to allow for QA. I know a lot about engineering and am fairly confident I could do this. But unless I had access to a well equipt lab I wouldn't bother. The consequences of stuffing it up, the relatively high chance of stuffing it up AT SOME POINT and the difficulty of easily determining when you have stuffed it up combine to convince me that this is something you should not attempt. buy your alcohol from the shop. sure, you pay govt taxes, make large companies a nice profit, but you are significantly less likely to end up blind, brain damaged or dead. *sheesh* on the other hand, for making BD inputs, I say go for it hammer and tongs. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] acid esterification Re: FFA
On Tue, 20 May 2003 11:44 pm, Appal Energy wrote: > The only place that we've ever achieved a white precipitate is in the wash > cycle. This has (or had) been tentatively calculated to be a metal stearate > (potassium or sodium) due to it's appearance after the introduction of the > caustic(s) and the removal of alcohol (solvent) in the first wash cycle, > plus its non-solubility at low water temps. I would be surprised to see either Na of K soaps precipitate in water as they are both highly soluable in water (continuous singel phase field in fact). If there were a source of Ca or Al, then it could be a salt of one of these, but this is speculative. does it only occur in BD from WVO or from fresh oil too? with the filtered material you have com=llected - what is its consistancy like - is it crystalline, greasy, waxy or cheesy? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Fuel Leak Simulation Dr. Michael R. Swain
On Wed, 21 May 2003 05:21 am, kirk wrote: > Even a broken clock is right twice a day. If we only judge information on > how politically correct the source is then we may as well join the crowd > and burn the heretics at the stake. yes, I agree. but only twice a day. You wouldn't, for instance, use it to set your watch. I figure the same applies here. I would be much happier if the details of the article were backed up with a bit of rigerous engineering - and there are plenty of good journals working in this area, as it's not exactly straight out of left field > > The migration rate of hydrogen is such that even though it has the widest > flammability range of any gas it is less of a hazard than methane given the > same small leak. I think the thrust of this comment is that replacing > methane with hydrogen for cooking may be not the danger many think it is. I wasn't talking about the danger of explosion from H migration, although for storage that is a problem and I would imagine there is a small risk for enclosed spaces. Such as the boot of a car. Mind you, petrol probably has similar risks More prevelent to my mind is the danger of embrittlement caused by Hydrogen. This is particluarly relevent to welded materials, but applies equally well to a number of plastics. there are techniques to mitigate H migration (multi-layerd materials, etc.) but they are not cheap to manufacture like petrol tanks (which are multi-layered blow-moulded plastic - PP and EVA usually). QC is therefore a further cost... getting it wrong could lead to unpredictable catastropic failure... not pretty. On the other hand, I think converting to H as a fuel is not a bad thing. well, as a measure towards sustainable fuel use. the alternative is to gear the PetroC industry to using it's industrial scale processing to make higher Mw fuels I still reakon that the disparity on spending between renuables and Petro resources borders on criminal > > As for crack-pot the name of Immanuel Velikovsky comes to mind. When he was > vindicated and the bastions of knowledge were found to be incorrect the > lack of apology was appalling. I am not impressed with that kind of > behavior. Argumentum ad hominum is pathetically weak and should be > abstained from. The facts should be adequate for discussion. Science, I am afraid, is an irrevokably socially embedded activity... just like religion :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
n;t want, wastes your time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against people you'd rather just ignore or get along with!) > > >Tell that to those who are the casualties of AR. > > Indeed... but we all are, only a matter of degree, and the whole biosphere > too. Right casualty. badly done by. do you have clean drinking water? nice car? education? peaceful society and police? you can't throw the baby out with the bath water you know. every thing comes at a price. are you unwilling to pay that price? what are you going to do about it then? > From: "paul van den bergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison > > > > > I think you all missed my point. and still missing it. once more, with feeling. you will not get altzimers (sp?) from the aluminium in your toothpaste. period. trust me, I'm an engineer. be more worried about picking up Al from the Al salts in your deoderant, or in the cooking water from your pan. Not to mention the fact that the association with Al exposure and degenerative diseases is at best tenative, at worst, non-existant. Or is it all a govt. conspiracy? (this is an insult, implying that the people who disagree with me are fools who believe in things like the US govt. having aliens from Roswell) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Natural pH-Indicators
On Mon, 19 May 2003 02:01 pm, Tom Gehlen wrote: > I"m being faced with the clean up of rather heavy clay soaked with old > motor oil. What are the most effective processes currently being used for > reclaiming such an environmental problem. Is there a process that produces > a positive environmental effect?? > > Tom G. what sort of volume of material are we talking about? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Fuel Leak Simulation Dr. Michael R. Swain
On Sun, 18 May 2003 11:08 am, kirk wrote: > http://www.unusualresearch.com/Hydrogen/hydrogen.htm Hi all. personally I wouldn't trust anything coming from a site that, to my mind, has all the hallmarks of a "crack-pot" science site On the other hand, hydrogen is well know to have a smaller explosive fuel/air mixture range that petrol. that's not the problem, however, as the small size of H2 is such that it is very difficult to contain, it does not compress well (to a liquid) and has a significant role in embrittling metals, especially welds. consequently the reason H is difficult (and hence expensive) to deal with is the cost of ensuring it does not leak. Especially compared to things like methane and the higher hydrocarbons and alcohols. Metal hydrides, on the other hand, are a different matter, if they can be made to work on a continuous duty cycle..... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Wind Power -- a European Success Story
On Sat, 17 May 2003 12:20 am, Bryan Brah wrote: > As Hakan has said storage of wind generated electricity will be the > hardest problem to solve if we are to rely on it for our power needs. actually, any environmentally derived power has this problem, potentially. specifically, the amount of power cannot be shifted to meet demand arbitrarily. so, we can either store the power, over provision, or change our lifestyles to match the available power not mutually exclusive ofcourse. personally I think we need to do all three. :-) storing power is actually relatively easy. batteries are fine but lossy and environmentally troublesome, but they work. energy density is a serious problem here... I beileve (from memory) that zinc is a reasonable material for storage of electrical power. better from my pov is PV decomp of water then use the Sabtier Reaction (reverse water gas) to make methane from H2 + CO2 over Pt hotwire or Alumina supported catalyst. - or just store the H2 - though this has other problems. when you want to use the power pass the methane or H2 through a fuel cell, keeping the reaction products for the charging cycle... :-) liquid fuel self presurising battery! -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
On Sun, 18 May 2003 11:25 am, robert luis rabello wrote: > Kris Book wrote: > > Can someone please explain to me why all of Europe and more > > recently so many U.S. water districts are using ozone to > > purify drinking water instead of chlorine/chloramine. I > > just searched for an hour to find an article I had read > > which stated that one chlorine molecule consumes over > > 100,000 ozone molecules in our upper atmosphere but, I > > could only find hundreds of articles portraying chlorine as > > a safe water treatment. IMO, chorline will soon go the way > > that saccharin and DDT did, no accepting of responsibility > > by its manufacturers. > > Among the reasons for the persistence of chlorine as a water purifying > agent, is a whole list of regulations that specify "residual kill time" for > municipal water systems. In short, while chlorine eventually becomes > oxidized and ineffective, it remains effective for quite a lot longer than > ozone. Any water system manager who wants to avoid litigation will specify > chlorine as the oxidizing agent for this reason. (It seems our friends in > Europe are a bit more understanding about risk, and don't seek to litigate > as readily as we Americans do.) first a tacit "me too" one of the problems with both chlorine (gas) and ozone (gas) is accidental spills or exposure - e.g. something goes wrong and either too much or sufficient concentration in a populated area (building) causes severe problems, and Chlorine is available in solid liquid or gaseous chemical forms (e.g. pool chlor.), where ozone is only available as a gas. > > Further, I've seen some research somewhere (this was YEARS ago already) > suggesting that ANY oxidation agent increases long term cancer risks. If > this is so, the question becomes: Do you want typhus and cholera now, or > are you willing to risk cancer in forty years? yeah, but that would be IN the body, surely so in that case the Ozone, having the shorter life, all other things being equal, would be better, unless you are covering a low use or large area, when teh oxidiser has to last longer between treatments. > > Personally, I think point of use filtration should be mandatory for > every household--especially in developing countries, where many people do > not have access to clean water. > > I'll get off my soap box now. . . but before you do, why is this a solution? doesn't the environmental cost of all those filters add up? (I don't know, am asking) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
I think you all missed my point. the social benefits of both fluorine and chlorine in drinking water are enourmous compared with the costs of not doing so - let me be clear oin this - the benefits of chlorine are very low levels of disentry and diahorea, not to mention cholera, etc., the benefits of fluorine are greatly increased lifetime due to good teeth. simlarly, the benefits of vaccination are clear. so what is not clear is that chlorine is the best in terms of least side effects. this boils down to money and govt. behaviour. What I find astonishing is that people 1) don't trust govt. to work for their benefit (by "trust" I mean "insist on", by "their" I do not mean individual, but societal as a whole) and 2) are so scared of minor side effects they miss the big effect. Ofcourse, I don't know what teh AStates are like, but here in general, there is a realisation of a fine line between universal banefit and individual inconvenience. to those who have bad reactions to chlorine or chloramine, I sympathise. This is something that needs to be dealt with, but not by scare tacktics and ignorance such as that wrt alumina is toothpaste (which is by far the worst crock I have come across in recent times). we have had in Melbourne (and the rest of Australia) our bi-decadal run in with legionella. I was periferally involved through a co who dealt with the post -outbreak risk management and amelioration (but on other projects). like a lot of things, industrial accidents have a half life - which relates to the time it takes for the issue to disappear off the landscape and become forgotten. The other one here is bush fires. the time between large outbreaks is just long enough for people and especially budget pressured depts. and govt.s to neglect. anyway, the point is a lot of places have started retrofitting ozone units to replace chlorine units. same rules go for air con cooling as water treatment I would imagine, only more extreme because of corosion and closed cycle issues. basically it breaks down like this. the problem is systemic. the company (Co) who owns the building is not the co who builds it. they subcontract the fitting of the air con at the last staes of building (i.e. when the profit and overtime have leached from teh budget) so the cheapest unit is installed. the co who then run the building for the owners subcontract the maintainence, who sub contract teh air con service - by this stage there is just enough money for a guy to come once a month and dump in a hand full of chemicals. Same goes I imagine for privatised water. knowing you will never have to pay the downstream costs of chosing a cheaper unit is guarenteed to lead to trouble... On Tue, 13 May 2003 11:16 am, paul van den bergen wrote: > fluoride in toothpaste, etc. > Flouride like most chemicals is toxic in excess amounts. the amounts in > drinking water and tooth paste are very very low and usually buffered so > that they remain low. > > but consider for a moment another poison we add to drinking water... > Chemically similar to Fluorine (and similarly toxic), we add it in much > larger quantities, especially in large public areas where children are the > most susceptable to it's effects - which include sore eyes and throats, > most of which go unreported to medical authorities.. yet we never hear > anything against Chlorine why? (yes, I don't expect or want an > answer... I was being ironic.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: glycerin buyers?
It has been suggested that since it is a sugar ... er. alcohol er somewhere in between, that it would (and does) make an excellent fuel for biological processes... I was wondering if it might not be a suitable additive to yeasts used to make ethanol, or as a feedstock for diesel producing algae On Wed, 14 May 2003 12:07 am, Andy & Lynn wrote: > Doesn't glycerin burn? > Couldn't you burn some with a wick in it to provide heat for the biodiesel > process? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/YoVfrB/XP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] One for my fellow Australians.
I wonder if any of us can take advantage of this? http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/transport/diesel/index.html -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
On Mon, 5 May 2003 03:31 am, Kris Book wrote: > Does anyone one on the list know enough about this subject > to confirm or deny this article's validity? > > > Toothpaste is poison > > > And we thought the fluoride in toothpaste was > > bad... In the interests of rumour contriol, I feel I must bring some sense to this discussion. Alumina is not aluminium and the amount of biologically available aluminium in alumina is likely to be very very (very) low. Alumina (Al2O3) is about as inert a compound as one would likely encounter in normal life - HCl - stomach acid will have absolutely no effect on it. high purity alumina is used in hip joints in preference to UHWMPE precicely because the body does not attack it (and it is relatively low friction and does not wear) and it is innocuous and does not wear (UHMWPE iis also inert, but when wear debri when it occurs - e.g. due to damage during implanting - it results in biological resorbsion attempts that fail, releasing the atacking ensyms ionto the joint where they attack the bone...) fluoride in toothpaste, etc. Flouride like most chemicals is toxic in excess amounts. the amounts in drinking water and tooth paste are very very low and usually buffered so that they remain low. but consider for a moment another poison we add to drinking water... Chemically similar to Fluorine (and similarly toxic), we add it in much larger quantities, especially in large public areas where children are the most susceptable to it's effects - which include sore eyes and throats, most of which go unreported to medical authorities.. yet we never hear anything against Chlorine why? (yes, I don't expect or want an answer... I was being ironic.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 42,850 Traffic Deaths in 2002
My brother was driving through the desert in Namibia a few weeks ago and fell asleep at the wheel. He ended up on the other side of the road and hit (sideswipped) a power pole (which woke him up). He was fine and the car drivable, but it could have been much worse (as he points out - he could have missed the pole and driven off into the desert, fast asleep) On Mon, 5 May 2003 03:05 pm, Doug Foskey wrote: > On Sun, 4 May 2003 03:00, you wrote: > > One problem ( that I don't know what the rate is elseware ) that we have > > in the western US, due to allot of the long miles between stopping > > points, is a fairly high rate of auto accidents due to Highway Hypnosis, > > and drivers falling asleep behind the wheel. One particular incident we > > had last summer, was the death of 9 forest firefighters because the > > driver of the van they were in, fell asleep. Things like this can not > > be attributed to vehicle design, but, directly to drivers, and the people > > in charge of the drivers ( the driver is given X amount of time to get > > from one place to another and if they don't make it on time they are > > penalized ). > > > > Greg H. > > You guys always have to have something bigger! > We have real distances between petrol stops in the Northern Territory: > 220Km (about 140miles) between petrol stations (and any habitation) & this > is on a major highway between Adelaide & Darwin. > Often at night, when I go to Sydney, I have 100Km between petrol stations > (but I can go 725Km to Sydney on less than a tank anyway - so who cares!) > The only stops I make are for a meal, or toilet. > But after all of that I agree that micro-sleeps are a killer. (& there > has been research done n Australia). There are restrictions on how far a > truck (& heavy vehicles) can travel between rest stops. The Transport dept > has checkpoints to check these rests too. (big fines for non-compliance) > regards Doug > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Technical question - catalysts
thanks keith, I'll look at Mikes page - j2forever is a remarkably useful sight... especially the library... The catalyst, hm. People would say "the lye", and indeed the lye is >recoverable as a true catalyst should be. But it doesn't only act as >the transesterification catalyst, it also serves to neutralize FFAs, >why you need to titrate to calculate FFA levels so you can know how >much lye to use. Also, the methanol replaces the glycerides in the >molecule, and this methanol becomes part of the methyl esters >molecule and is not recoverable. But you also need excess methanol to >push the process towards completion - and this excess methanol is >recoverable and reusable, so in a sense it is also acting as a >catalyst. I think... no, a catalyst reduces the activation energy of a reaction... adding excess shifts the equilibrium point. ## Paul van den Bergen # Gabrielle Harrison # # 848 High Street Rd ## Glen Waverley VIC 3150 Australia # ## [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # ph/fax. +613 9886 3160 # Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Technical question - catalysts
On Thu, 1 May 2003 03:46 pm, martin wrote: > paul van den bergen wrote: > >Can some one direct me to a definitive answer on the transesterification > >mechanism and in particular the role and nature of the catalyst? > > Paul, > There isn't a true catalyst in the reaction. The sodium methoxide which > is added is partially used up in the reaction. A true catalyst goes in a > cycle and is left to be used repeatedly. I could possibly get my sister > [BS Chemistry] to write about it. Try searching google.com for details, > I'm sure someone has a web page about the reaction. coincidentally I just looked at an old org. chem book that mentions alkoxides as catalysts for transeserifitaction reactions (including fatty acids). very small section but interesting none the less. Will have top go check out the library here some day (er... next week?) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/O10svD/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Technical question - catalysts
Can some one direct me to a definitive answer on the transesterification mechanism and in particular the role and nature of the catalyst? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] yurts
On Thu, 1 May 2003 01:15 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Have you considered using 20 foot ISO containers for shelter. > I like the fact that containers have their own internal strength > independent of any need for a foundation. >They are also stackable, so ground space can be > conserved if necessary. I was seriously considering this option for building a cellar when I needed to replace the shed... In the end I did not have the money to go ahead with it, which is a pity... would have worked beautifully. The idea was to dig a hole so that the top of the container was just below ground level then back fill and top with a concrete slab so that the workshop of the shed was at ground level and the cellar was accessable via a concrete well/staircase off to one side... Since having that idea it has occured to me that one could extend it significantly - how much load can these things take - presumably lots since they are loaded and stacked several high on ships - could one line the entire house block with them and build the house on top (or is that just going too far?) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] living with less, an experiment in minimalism
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:08 am, Steve Spence wrote: > For the next 6 months, we will be collecting rain water for drinking > and washing. We will be collecting heat from the sun and from a wood > fire. We will cook with wood. We will generate electricity from the > sun and wind for lights, communications, and appliances. We will grow > our own food for as much is practical. We will barter and do odd jobs > for the things we need, but cannot make. Welcome to our journey. I have to say, good on you! and good luck. are you familiar with the sustainable house? I think in Glebe, Sydney? Damn it, google isn't being helpful today... I will have to grab my fathers copy of the book and get the ISBN... summary, small 2 story town house in Glebe, Sydney. Owners tried to make it as self sustainable as possible - basically to minimise inputs and outputs with the aim being 100 % self sufficiency... Interesting example of what can be done... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Energy use in buildings was: 42,850 Traffic Deaths in 2002
On Thu, 1 May 2003 09:50 am, Hakan Falk wrote: > Dear John, > > I think we can discuss which type of statistics that is > the right one and the truth is that it is no single one that > give a complete picture. Do we all agree that it is too high a figure? aside: about 2 years ago there was a beatup media story here about airbags killing dogs and children and it being safer not to install them. Turns out the story was taken direct from the US news feeds without references to the differences in driving behaviour between the US and Australia. Now, I don't know this for sure, but I get teh impression that seatbelts are fairly much regarded as optional in the US, where as in Australia they have been compulsory for so long it is habitual. I was told the reason for the high incident of airbag deaths was because in the US (with low seat belt use) they were the _primary_ restraint mechanism (trigger threshold set at ~10 kph) where as in Oz they are definitely the secondary restraint (trigger threshold set at ~30 kph - I.e. will not deploy if the car is going less than 30 kph). Like I said I do not know if this is the whole truth, but there you go... I for instance can see problems if you are a stationary vehicle being impacted.... *shrug* -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] yurts
In Oz there is Owner Builder magazine... is there similar in the states? On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:40 am, Michael Ashton wrote: > sorry forgot to add title > > > > > > From: "Michael Ashton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [biofuel] (unknown) > >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:56:37 -0700 > > > > > > > >Greetings everybody. > >I have been looking into yurts and so far I like what I see. They seem to > >be a very low impact housing alternative. Might anyone have experience > >living in one or have some knowledge that could prove useful? > >Thank you. > >Peace and flow > >Michael > > > > > > > >_ > >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: 42,850 Traffic Deaths in 2002
On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:17 am, murdoch wrote: > >compulsory seatbelts, random breathtesting, standard national laws (0.05% > >blood alcohol), 0% blood alcohol for the first 2 years of driving (2 years > >probation, driving age is 18). > There are dozens of differences or nuances one could attempt to > consider as theories for our outrageously high danger of driving snip a lot of good points... yes, I agree with your points and yes I did get a bit high horsey mounted... stepping down now... > statistics. Sort of like the freakish high numbers of murders here, > hilighted in Michael Moore's documentary the numbers are just very > high, or seem so. yeah, that was an eye-openning doco... (presume you mean Bowling for Columbine.) I kinda assume that people know the US is pretty screwed up and it still surprises me when someone points out that the reason it is screwed up is not as straight forward and obvious as one might think I have my own theories, specifically that America cannot see past it's own sucess and is very introspective concequently it cannot see any point of view but it's own when dealling with others This explains a lot, but not all the issues the world has with teh USA, so I do have to be careful and re-ground my reality occasionally (please note: I knock the USA, but my own country is so damn keen to abandon it's uniqueness and underdog-based sterengths and become an ooutpost for the US that it makes me cringe... I am sure if we had teh economic strength of the US we would screw it up just as badly - if not worse. Also, note that I believe that the US and hence the world is heading for a major fall I just hope it is sooner than later so we have some chance of recovering with some natural resources left and an environment capable of supporeting life still) there is one easy way to prevent death on the roads.... get rid of cars and trucks -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 42,850 Traffic Deaths in 2002
On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:52 pm, murdoch wrote: > As I mentioned last month, I am in favor of looking into greater > computer control of vehicles, or, more accurately, gradually increased > automated vehicle driving and warning systems, integrated with driver > command, to reduce traffic deaths. I believe such a trend has been > implemented, over the decades, in modern jumbo jets and has saved > lives. It has not proven to be a cure-all and premature turning of > jet control over to full computer control has proven, on at least one > occassion, to be fatal. But I think if something can be done to > reduce the dangers of driving then it ought be looked-into. IMO. > > http://www.napanews.com/templates/index.cfm?template=story_full&id=DE0D502D >-4FB5-4B39-B52E-ECA47FC0CF9B this is astounding... I knew it was bad in the US but not that bad... in Oz we have around 700 deaths per year over 18 million. the US has 48,000 out of 200 million, or about 6 times the death rate (and I guess the injuries rate is similarly higher.) the main differences between the two? compulsory seatbelts, random breathtesting, standard national laws (0.05% blood alcohol), 0% blood alcohol for the first 2 years of driving (2 years probation, driving age is 18). loose a little freedom (not for security, but civic duty), gain a whole lotta saved lives the guy instrumental in getting random breathtesting in australia died recently... His Obit suggested he is responsible for saving 30,000 lives over the last 3 decades... Our death rate is lower than in the 1950's... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/cjB9SD/od7FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] life cycle analysis
At 09:27 18/04/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > > Crude oil is a limited amount available, but both veg oil and water > > is renewable. Imagine the size of production equipment, investment, > > Has anyone ever proved that there is no ongoing natural production >of crude oil? Why would a process that has been ongoing for eons >suddenly stop? >Tom Fisher >Dallas,TX rate, mate, is what it is about... sustainability is about the rate of consumption being less or equal than the rate of production. sure, geology is a strange and complex process and it is not clear why gas deposites form... well, less than perfectly clear but I would be very surprised of it had halted altogether... unless ofcourse it was related to specific climate condition, similar to coal formation being associated with inter-glaciation hot house periods... ## Paul van den Bergen # Gabrielle Harrison # # 848 High Street Rd ## Glen Waverley VIC 3150 Australia # ## [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # ph/fax. +613 9886 3160 # Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How Many Grams in One Teaspoon of Red Devil?
At 08:44 17/04/2003 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone know roughly how much one level >teaspoon of Red Devil granular NaOH weighs? >I don't have any small scales at home. >Thanks, >Tom Fisher >Dallas,TX I don't know about red devil, but for sugar (as used in homebrew beer) 1 teaspoon varies from 5 to 7 grams depending on heaping and spoon size... ## Paul van den Bergen # Gabrielle Harrison # # 848 High Street Rd ## Glen Waverley VIC 3150 Australia # ## [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # ph/fax. +613 9886 3160 # Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel as wood treatment?
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:18 am, Jim Raddon wrote: > Thanks, > This is good news. I was hoping I could use it on my deck. It's much > cheaper than what they sell at the store! I'm in the wash stage of my > 2nd batch. My first was 1 litre. This one is 10 litres. I hope to > build a 50+ litre processor in the next month or two. > Thanks again for everyone's postings and for upkeeping the biofuel > websites. > Jim it depends what you want... use a drying oil will result in a harder wearing finish. Tung oil is a nice intermediate drying oil. I use a mixture of beeswax, unboiled linseed oil and gum turpentine in low wear living areas. I can't google it atm, but I will look it up at home... I think it was somethign like 4 oz wax, 1 pint unboiled (raw) linseed, 1 pint gum turps melt wax, mix in linseed oil, allow to cool somewhat, add turps. We add fragrant oils too - e.g. boronia, lavendar, eucalyptus oil. the gum turps smells like eucalyptus or pine anyway... don't take this receipe as accurate - I will dig up the original website... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Where to get Methanol
On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:10 am, ianryles wrote: > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "sk85pb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Where to get Methanol in the U.K > > Also try these > Citric acid £34/25kg what do you use the citric acid for? and can someone return the favour but exchange UK for Australia (well, melbourne would be even better) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT: calculating energy requirements for Solar Panel installations.
Hi all, somewhat OT for biofuels, but alt. energy-ish, so I figured people here would know where to start... I am considering putting in a tlephone and data relay point on a remote property, where little power is available... I want to calculate both how much battery storage and how much solar power (panels) I need to ensure (within reason) that the device will operate reasonably well. I.e., given an energy budget, how much battery and panels does one need? a typical energy budget would be... 80W peak load, 1W idle, average of 10W. I can get info like sunlight hours for the area, etc. What I need is guidelines on assumptions that it si safe to make.. If anyone knows of such a site or information source, could they point me to it? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] This is cute....or not!
On Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:57 pm, Kris Book wrote: > Does that mean also, that you can't kill in the name of > peace? can't shan't won't gotta remember that (usually) war represents a failure of diplomacy (not an extension of diplomacy). If the USA really is the most powerful nation in the world, and economically it could buy most countries cheaper than lanching a war, except ofcourse that the people who benefit from war are not those that pay for it... then why is if such a failure at actually achieving it's new world order with it at the head of a global police state? Oh, wait, hang on... *remainder of message censored* Governments have been slaughtering the young men > under their rule for thousands of years by sending them off > to war for a just cause. When will the people wake up and > see that the rich have succeeded in convincing the inmates > to guard the assylum. This war only benefits the > Rockefellers and friends and they are not loyal to any > country. And Greed is their God. > > War will never settle any disagreement, it will only > escalate the suffering of the poor, and we (the people) > have been conditioned to follow stupid orders long enough. > I was already tricked into killing the enemy in the name of > peace once, it's not a mistake I will commit again. The > poor are the same everywhere, and negotiation and education > are our only chance. We out number them more than ninty to > one, so all we have to do is communicate to win. > > Any of you right wingers who really think that you are on > the right side should be aware that the elite plan to toss > you in the pot with the rest of us when they finish with > their evil plan. > > kris > > > > > > > > kris > > --- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: --- > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] This is cute > > > > 1. Thou Shalt Not Kill. > > > > No fine print. > > > > Seems straightforward enough. > > > > Break that one, the very first one on the list, you'd > > think you'd be in trouble with Da Man Upstairs, huh? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > > address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: more coverage of Iraq
look up the IP address and do it that way... I believe it is http://213.30.180.219/ it looks like a DNS entry problem... deliberate or otherwise it is a relatively easy thing to achieve from outside... e.g. if you actually knew what you were doing you could actually close the site down very effectively. this if deliberate is probably the owrk of a disgruntled script kiddie... On Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:24 am, martin wrote: > Andrew Preston wrote: > >Re: Censorship... > > > >Funny, I've been trying all week to access the new Al Jazeera english > >language site.. > > > >http://english.aljazeera.net > > > >without success. I was aware that the site had been the subject of > >repeated hacker, and denial of service attacks, sI hadn't taken a > >close look at the error screens that got displayed when I tried > >to access the site. Today however, I did and this is what it said. > > > >>You are not authorized to view this page > >>You do not have permission to view this directory or page from the > >> Internet address of your Web browser. > >> > >>- > >>--- > >> > >>If you believe you should be able to view this directory or page, please > >> contact the Web site administrator by using >the e-mail address or phone > >> number listed on the english.aljazeera.net home page. > >> > >>HTTP 403.6 - Forbidden: IP address rejected > >>Internet Information Services > >> > >>- > >>--- > >> > >>Technical Information (for support personnel) > >> > >> > >>Background: > >>This error is caused when the server has a list of IP addresses that are > >> not allowed to access the site, and the IP >address you are using is in > >> this list. > >> > >> > >>More information: > >>Microsoft Support > > > >I use 'Peoples Network' computers at UK libraries. This one is in > >Somerset. > >So this operates thru the proxy server for Somerset County Council. > >I've got a librarian to email the Somerset Council system administrator > >to say > >specifically if they have blocked access to Al Jazeera. No reply yet. > > Your access is being blocked on their end, not your library or council > person. > I'm blocked too. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] anhydrogenous alcohol
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:23 pm, Keith Addison wrote: > >huh? there seems to be context missing here > > Brandon's not talking about biodiesel Paul. yep... that'd be it... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] anhydrogenous alcohol
huh? there seems to be context missing here if you mean the water in the BD reaction will be excluded from teh BD into the glycerine you are correct. Unfortunately it interferes with teh BD reaction On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 05:08 pm, telemachus002 wrote: > forgive my ignorance but I see all these explanations of fancy ways > to remove the last bit of water from alcohol to attain 200 proof > such as using vacuums, corn grits and such. but if the water > seperates from a gasoline alcohol mixture and sink to the bottom. > couldn't you just wait till it seperates drain the gas/alcohol from > the top or drain the water out of the bottom seal it to prevent > moisture absorption and be done with it? > brandon > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:53 am, John E Hayes III wrote: > bratt wrote: > >The search for uses for waste--re-cycling--has brought about several "new" > > industries. 1. Nuclear medicine 2. Irradiated food. 3. Weapons > > grade Uranium 4. DU weapons of war. > > > >Seems like the search for use of radioactive waste finds solutions each of > > which gets more deadly than the use before. > > I'm a little lost here. Nuclear medicine and irradiated food are both > *good* things. well I would have a hard time arguign that nuclear medical advances are a bad thing I understand there are serious waste issues, but other than that, what's the bad? irradiated food has certain advantages and disadvantages... like many things it can be abused. given a choice between importing disease and irradiation, I'd recommend irradiation as a quarantene measure any day. using it as a general all purpose cleanliness food solution... that pushes all the wrong buttons for me... on the other hand, I suspect that the issue is as much about education, information, advertising (marketing) and vested interests more than it is about health risks... in all cases good or bad... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:50 pm, Appal Energy wrote: > Food Irradiation is a good thing? > > I wonder how the world survived for so many millions of years prior to its > "availability?" well, mostly by dieing... :-) but I take your point - and it rasies an interesting point too... is our use of technology reducing our evolutionary survival ability? (I have an answer of sorts... which is that it depends how robust an evolutionary force social evolution (or memes if you prefer) is...) > > "Oh waiter!!! I'd like a side order of week old shell fish that just came > in from the Vindicator plant. And could I get an extra serving of sauce?" > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "John E Hayes III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:53 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing > > > bratt wrote: > > >The search for uses for waste--re-cycling--has brought about several > > "new" industries. 1. Nuclear medicine 2. Irradiated food. 3. > Weapons grade Uranium 4. DU weapons of war. > > > >Seems like the search for use of radioactive waste finds solutions each > > of which gets more deadly than the use before. > > > I'm a little lost here. Nuclear medicine and irradiated food are both > > *good* things. > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Armour - was Dirty Bombing
now we are getting waaay off topic... but I just can't help myself... the armour used in tanks etc. to defeat projectile weapons... I would have thought that it would be a multi-layered composite - like extra heavy duty kevlar... with layers including MMC (metal matrix composites)... there are plenty of materials with both toughness and strength and high temperature properties that are cheap enough for an advaned army... Tantalum wire wrapped ceramic composites for instance would have excellent toughness and strength... and resist temoperatures in excess of 2000 oC -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] opec-- who gets what
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:22 am, kirk wrote: > http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf Not surprised... although a bit propaganderish, it is something well know... on the other hand, what are those taxes used for? that is the real issue, not that govt. gets huge revenue from oil (well maybe that is the issue in the sense that it ties the govt to oil as a revenue source), but what is done with the tax revenue. does it go into roads and transprot improvements? public transport (just think what 270,000 million UD$ could do to public transport systems). renuable energy research? no, i didn't think so... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:25 am, kirk wrote: > You can't get oxygen to it that fast. It is through the hull in > milliseconds. > Realize I have described a new concept for you to grasp. It is not one you > normally encounter. > The exothermic reaction doesn't involve oxygen. That is a side reaction and > later. > There are some metallurgy reactions that make this look mundane, odd as it > is. > > Kirk that was the impression I got from the paper I read... that there was some reaction that U underwent that was pyrophoric, that it involved iron and that it produced U oxide powder. the specifics were vague... so I left it at pyrophoric and neglected to mention oxygen... I did get the distinct impression that the pyrophoric effect was definitely an after impact (e.g. ignites feirce fire after penetration) as opposed to an explosive effect... infact explosive force was not mentioned. reading between teh lines I got the impression that there was a reaction between the Fe and the U, where I thought it more likely that the Fe had a catalytic effect on oxidation or similar. this is because I could not see a thermodynamics case for a strongly exothermic reaction between U and Fe... but that's just idle speculation on my part. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Turkey plant finds high-tech pollution solution
I always figured that some form of pyrolisys would be the easiest robust waste solution for mixed waste streams... On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:58 am, eric12856 wrote: > Don't know if anybody saw or posted this yet... Saw posted on > slashdot.ord > > http://www.springfieldnews- > leader.com/projects/stewardship/turkey120402.html > > Turkey plant finds high-tech pollution solution > Carthage company will turn poultry waste into products instead of > effluent. Initially I read the subject line and thought it was another piece on the war in Iraq... :-) Turkey, pollution from burning oil fields looked at the web site. Reading between the lines and guessing, It seems they are using high temperature steam to do the depolymerising. Saponification &etc. really rather neat. (water is actually a very very effective acid at high temperatures - it will dissolve glass and quartz.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mixing biodisel with gasoline
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 06:47 am, Steve Spence wrote: > although 1% might not hurt anything, it surely wouldn't benefit. wrong > characteristics for spark ignited engines. high cetane, low octane. Can you crack BD and make a more petrol like material? (In the lab?) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Opium Rising in Afghanistan
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:13 am, Keith Addison wrote: > FOREIGN NEWS > Opium Rising in Afghanistan same with Burma, same with central america what I fail to understand is - these crops are very valuable, not as illegal drugs, but as legal drugs One of Tasmanias best export industries is poppy production for morphine and codine - about 5% of the worlds supply. so if the world needs these opiate derived drugs, and there is expertise and cheap labour in 3rd world countries, why hasn't the west jumped all over it, like they do everything else??? (not that I want to put the Tas income derived from the legal drug trade in jeapody... it just smacks of double standards and short sitedness.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] dual fuel
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:08 pm, itsmesrd wrote: > Has anybody pressed the oil from grain seed for biodiesel and then > used the cake for ethanol production? Seems that it could then be fed > to livestock as a portion of the feed program. This would not only > give you two kinds of fuel but also soap to wash with and pork chops > for the table. I wondered about this... I know to make beer you need to germinate teh seed to start converting the starch into malt so that the yeast can breqak down the sugars (yeasts will consume single sugars, fructose and glucose, and can break down di-glycerides like malt and sucrose, but anything bigger they cannot handle (and isomered sugars are also difficult - thus iso malt as a diabetic sugar, etc)) so the way to do it would be to germinate the oil seed, crush and press and wash for the oil, return the wash to the batch and ferment, then press for the remaining meal and distill the ethanol output would be 4 products. 1) BD 2) glycerine 3) ethanol (less that used to make the BD) 4) high protein meal feed -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question about catalysts
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:52 pm, Jim Raddon wrote: > Hi, I'm new to this biodiesel thing. I've read about the one step, two > step, and acid/base foolproof method. My question is - are there any > other catalysts that would make this reaction work? I'm a little green > in the chemistry department. I know about sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and > sulfuric acid (H2S04), what about platinum? I asked my father about this (organometalic chemist). This is my poorly recalled impression of the conversation... so any errors are mine... yes there are others, but none so simple as methoxide that's it. note it is not just about making the reaction basic - it is the presence of methoxide (due to reaction of MaOH and methanol) [1] that acts as a catalyst (e.g. reduces teh activation energy to reaction, thus promoting the rate of reaction many orders of magnitude). Unlike most catalysts used in industry, the methoxide is consumed. the methoxide produced is only a small concentration in the methanol/NaOH solution... K is only about 10^-4... but because the equilibrium is even slightly to the right, the methoxide is regenerated as it is consumed. I don't believe Pt would work... I seem to recall the Sabatier requires a Pt catalyst... takes CO2 and H2 and makes methane. - Nope, Ru, not Pt, though I am sure there are plenty of Pt requring catalysts... [1] or ethoxide if using ethanol -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 04:04 am, Greg and April wrote: > > > shells and Tomahawk missiles, among others. > > > > The last part is pure propaganda BS. DU has only been used ( and is > > only > > > useful ) in defeating armor and in making tank armor. DU has no place > > in > > > Tomahawks, artillery shell or any other exploding ( chemical explosion > > ) type of munitions, because, despite this persons claims, DU is not an > > explosive. > > > > > No DU is not an explosive, and it is not being claimed to be an > > explosive by Hoagy, > > no, but they are pyrophoric... DU ignites on impact and burns feircely. apparently especially when impacting iron. not sure why iron per say, but apparently impacting Al does not have the same effect - much less likely to burn... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:46 pm, bratt wrote: > Because I study the Bible, I could give a complete and rational > explanation of why they feel Biblical material is possibly hate literature, > but the establishment might shut down this site. (aside: this is not a dig at you being religeous) have you considered they are doing it for the amusement value? I mean, consider how boring postal work must be... (I collect minerals. So I really cannot pick on anyones beliefs ;-) However, once when comming back from Hawaii, luggage about 20 kg overweight, they still wanted to look at the luggage... not because I might have soil, a quarantine issue, but because they wanted to see what I got... I had about 5 or 6 custom workers all clustered around my suitcase while I unwrapped about a dozen of the better specimens I had purchased or found, with a growing line of travellers waiting for attention... I didn't mind :-) ) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:15 am, Ken Basterfield wrote: > Hakan, I do hope you are not about to downplay the prospect of the US > invading the UK, Daphne du Maurier would turn in her grave. > I still have hopes that we would roll over and take the proferred > reparations that the US will rain on us after we surrender. > We certainly need it! > Old people desperately needing care, a mininal state pension that is > destined to decline into nothing, no public housing programme, education in > crisis, medical services so strained that we have to send our people to > France so they can get their operations done, public transport in chaos and > Tony Blair ventures our miserable remaining wealth on sorting out the > politics of other tyrants. > Ken It always remains a mystery to me how we can engineer a political system that can take a sufficiently long term view (generational or longer) so that issues like (to take a single issue as example here) overaging of a population do not become a insurmountable issue. > - Original Message - > From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > France as staging area. I have always wondered about how > > Canada could survive as a country, but if the British and > > the French can get along, it should be a piece of cake for > > the Christians and the Muslims. -:) "Blame Canada!" -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dirty Bombing
other things. > As is DU > > > Iraqi civilians -- many more than the 100,000 who died in the conflict > > or as a result of the war -- also suffer from a range of similar > > health problems. > > > > Families of soldiers should be very worried. > > > > A huge amount of ordnance has already been unleashed in Iraq, and > > there is no way of knowing how many thousands of tons of depleted > > uranium will find "permanent storage" in the rubble of Iraq, its soil > > and the > > bodies > > > of its people and U.S. occupying forces. > > The only use, for DU, is Tank to Tank fighting, the 25 mm chain gun on > the Bradley and the 30 mm gatling gun on the A-10 Warthog, and DU is not > the only option for those uses, other metals are available and have been > used for making SABOTs. Since the majority of the fighting and ordinance > is not being used on Anti-Tank fighting, then it is more than safe to say > only a fraction of it may be DU, even if the US even is using it. > > Plenty of DU is being dropped on Iraq. Each Cruise missile has some in > it, and shells of all diameters have DU in them. Any 'piercing' ammunition > will probably contain the metal. The DU weapons used in the Gulf War > included 120, 105, 30, 25 and 20mm rounds for use by tanks, aircraft, naval > cannon and machine guns. > > > The rosy fantasies of a democratized Arab world might make for good > > sound bites. But the reality of widespread DU use brings to mind the > > epitaph > > The only known wide spread use of DU in this war so far, has been in the > e-mail that this post is responding to, and much of it, is fiction. > > Hmm, I wonder where you get your fiction from, Greg. > > > Susanna Hecht is a professor in the School of Public Policy and Social > > Research at UCLA. She is head of the environmental analysis and policy > > program. > > A professor knows to do research. If she had checked her facts about DU, > how it is used, and the type of ordnance used in both Gulf wars, she > could not have made as many phony/fake claims as she did. > > So, Prof Greg, where did you get your research from?? I have at least > provided references to my claims. To suggest that an eminent scientist is > making it up is a serious allegation! > > Greg H. > > Tom T > > -- > Tom Tibbits > PG, EXSS, > The Blackett Laboratory, > Prince Consort Road, > London > SW7 2BW > http://www.sc.ic.ac.uk/~q_pv/ > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] defending pdfs
sounds like the right tool for the wrong job to me... On the other hand, perhaps I don't clearly understand the problem. I gather the index gives you section and subsection etc. as a return on a given keyword. is the pdf not bookmarked in sections? I can see no reason, given the number of ways information can be referenced in pdf's, why there should be a problem. Ofcourse, if the people who created teh pdfs don't know what they are doing wrt bookmarks, etc, then there might be an issue... On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:04 am, bratt wrote: > Paul: > > I thought the "P" would stand for "Pitiful" or "Pathetic" > > The material I was working with (or trying to) were Government Acts, > running over 300 pages each. Naturally, Government Acts of Law are indexed > according to the sections of the Act, not pages. > > To index those Sections to page numbers s of PDF you would have to > separate the Sections of the Act to fit them one to a page, or have a page > re-numbering feature in PDF, which it does not have. > > Besides that, PDF is slow to load, slow to downpage. I have had instances > where the largest printout had unreadable text. I mailed the printout to > the publisher and requested a "paper version" that I could read. > > I am not creating this Government Act creature, just trying to read what > was published in PDF, which is an application totally unsuited to this ever > popular antiquated data file system. > > On the upside, "It is free, but worth that price" > > Ed > > > - Original Message - > From: "paul van den bergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:50 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] defending pdfs > > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:37 pm, bratt wrote: > > > If anything deserves boycotting its > > > PDF files. > > > > > > PDF is antiquated, slow, and totally unsuitable for large volume > > > publication use. I had to scan s-l-o-w-l-y through hundreds of pages > > > to find > > > information because there is no way to relate the index of the > > manuscript > > > > to the pdf page numbers, which makes the six page index absolutely > > > worthless. > > > > there is a lot here to cover and I really don't have time, but here goes. > > > > first, sounds like you are angry at someone or something... nevermind, > > lets > > > assume you have a genuine complaint and not just a winge for the heck of > > it. > > > second, old and antiquated? I assume you mean by that that it does not > > perform > > > the function it was built for adequately compared to other more recent > > inventions that do? if so, what are they? note pdf stands for printable > > document format - it is a system optimised to allow the sharing over > > disperate systems of information in a form that can be printed with > > (preferably) no change from instance to instance. Now personally I prefer > > postscript, which si far older, but pdfs are certainly more efficient > > space-wise. > > > > thirdly, don't blame pdfs for the authors lack of care in indexing > > correctly... > > > > sounds like you need to take a deep breath before posting... > > > > -- > > Dr Paul van den Bergen > > Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures > > caia.swin.edu.au > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > IM:bulwynkl2002 > > It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] defending pdfs
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:37 pm, bratt wrote: > If anything deserves boycotting its > PDF files. > > PDF is antiquated, slow, and totally unsuitable for large volume > publication use. I had to scan s-l-o-w-l-y through hundreds of pages to > find > information because there is no way to relate the index of the manuscript > to the pdf page numbers, which makes the six page index absolutely > worthless. there is a lot here to cover and I really don't have time, but here goes. first, sounds like you are angry at someone or something... nevermind, lets assume you have a genuine complaint and not just a winge for the heck of it. second, old and antiquated? I assume you mean by that that it does not perform the function it was built for adequately compared to other more recent inventions that do? if so, what are they? note pdf stands for printable document format - it is a system optimised to allow the sharing over disperate systems of information in a form that can be printed with (preferably) no change from instance to instance. Now personally I prefer postscript, which si far older, but pdfs are certainly more efficient space-wise. thirdly, don't blame pdfs for the authors lack of care in indexing correctly... sounds like you need to take a deep breath before posting... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/YKLNcC/oEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ethanol busses around melbourne.
Hi all, Paging Melbournians; I saw again today the "100% Ethanol bus" this morning - Ventura Bus I was wondering is nyone knew where they got their fuel from (the supplier) and what is the concentration? A contact number would be good :-) (It is too late in teh day to call... I am a bit too busy to do so for a day or 2 anyway..) the implecation from the bus is that the ethanol comes from renuable biological sources, not petrochemicals would be great to get a steady supply of ecologically sound ethanol for BD production locally... BTW, has anyone thought of looking into transetherification - using acetone? or any of a number of trans- chemistry? On a similar note: How is petro oil cracked into lighter fractions? Pyrolosis? catalyst? why not do the same in milder form to winterise BD? heck, do it carefully enough and you could produce any fuel you want, right down to petrol... (and before anyone points it out, yes I suspect all this is well beyond the scope of a backyard bucket chemistry adventure - but I can dream! :-) ) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ZKLNcC/pEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] seals.pdf
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:19 pm, kirk wrote: > Navy manual about seals navy seal? Arp! arp! -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:06 pm, Jerry wrote: > What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make > any difference?? actually, if the war etc. really is based on oil (personally I find the US$ as fiat oil currency arguement pretty strong and compelling), then the use of biodiesel is perhaps the most effective personal boycott one can think of... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] thought for the weekend...
Believe it or not this occured to me in the shower... I was thinking about centrifugal filtering/seperation of BCBs, especially fine ones, from BD (well, grease in general, but BD too) it occured to me that if the mixture of animal and vegitable fats will seperate out at low T due to gelling on the animal fats, then there is an immiscibiliity between the two phases, or atleast a phase seperation. Either way, one should be able to either seperate the gell particles from the non-gelled liquid, or if all liquid it may be that the higher functional (bulkier, more FFA bearing) molecules , which would be more viscous, would also be removed by a certifugal processing to remove BCBs. mind you, this may be true, but I bet it is not simple... I will have to investigate this further with some friencds who know more about centrifical seperation than I -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Global Warming
you know guys, it's possible this was just flame bait, but assuming it isn't I'll still bite... Sound like a Pave The Earth fanatic to me it don't matter if the CO2 levels were rising or not, we are definitely making it worse... when you can see the damage done to the planet from even low res satellites and you still don't think it is a problem you are forgetting the basic lessons of history. back in the roman era, there was a city on the African Mediterranean coast. Forest, deep water port, river. 150 years later it was gone, abandoned, with a delta 50 km long in front of it? why? because the forest disappeared. So, now we are doing the same thing, stealing the resources of the whole planet. Only this time there is no where to go once we have done it. We will have to live in our own cesspool... but then, do I really think I am reaching anyone? sounds like Bryan doesn't want to listen to us anyway, head in the sand... At 07:20 28/03/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Bryan, > >I am sorry, but I cannot accept your statements as having >scientific base and connection to reality nor being knowledgeable, >reasonable and responsible. I do find the 200 leading scientist >in the field and the world, that belive in the CO2 connection >and Global Warming somewhat more serious and convincing. > >Hakan > > >At 10:50 AM 3/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: > >Show me the money! > > > >As far as a the relationship between the earth's mean temperature and CO2 > >levels, first prove to me that CO2 levels wouldn't have risen without > >human contribution. Next show me that this CO2 is the CAUSE of the > >increase in the mean temperature. I won't argue that the temperature is > >rising, but the atmospheric level of CO2 might very well be a RESULT of a > >higher mean temperature. The "Greenhouse Effect" is just a theory; there > >are a number of other theories that explain why the earth's temperature is > >rising. These include increased sunspot activity and tectonic and > >geothermal action. Increased temperature could cause saturated CO2 to be > >released from the oceans. > > > >Blaming "Global Warming" on CO2 emissions (and thus on industrialized > >countries), is a convenient ruse to redistribute wealth to > >non-industrialized nations. Kyoto doesn't do anything to curb the > >emissions of China, India, all of Africa, or South America. Do you > >believe for a minute that these countries don't produce CO2 emissions, and > >won't continue to do so at greater and greater rates? Kyoto is not about > >protecting the environment, it is about controlling people. > > > >Comparing the CO2 production on a per person basis is misleading, while > >Europeans are responsible for 8 tons of CO2 each per year, and Chinese > >make only 2 tons per year per person (Kirk's stat), there are about four > >times as many Chinese as there are Europeans, so the regional output is > >the same. Furthermore the demographic of "developed" countries is > >changing. The European population is expected to decrease over the next > >two decades, so who will be producing more CO2 then? Has China signed > Kyoto? > > > >I'll butter my bread how I like. I ride my bike to work because I want > >to, not because an international treaty makes it illegal for me to drive > >my car. When I do drive, I'd rather smell French fries than dead > >dinosaurs. What we should really be doing is using wind, solar, and tide > >power to split hydrogen for fuel cells, but I imagine that we'll have to > >run out of petroleum and coal before that happens. > > > >-BRAH > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuels list archives: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## Paul van den Bergen # Gabrielle Harrison # # 848 High Street Rd #
Re: [biofuel] Global Warming
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:54 pm, paul van den bergen wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:01 pm, MH wrote: > > "It takes a pound of coal to generate the electricity to light a > > 100-watt bulb for 10 hours. For every pound of coal we burn, nearly > > three pounds of carbon dioxide go into the atmosphere." > > Coal is bad enough, but concrete (portland cement) is worse. > for every ton, 5.5 tons of CO2 are produced. > > > I like the statement "We don't really know what is going on, but you can be > pretty sure that we can't go on dumping all this junk into the environment > and not have a dramatic and adverse effect" or words to that effect. > > I have heard plenty of ideas about reversing green house evvects, from > sequestering liquid CO2 in geosinks to Fe seeding the southern ocean to tie > up CO2 as boita that sink down the thermocline... actually, brown coal is even worse... in Vic, the majority of power comes from Brown coal - very low S which is about the only good thing I can say about it... brown coal has about 60-70% water. Dry it has a energy of ~ 23MJ/kg. Wet it is only 3-5 MJ/kg. once you make electricity out of it you loose most of the power transmitting it 100's km to Melbourne works out at something less than 10% efficient... seems to me a better use would be to plow it into the arid farm soil as a fertaliser/water retention booster... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Global Warming
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:07 pm, martin wrote: > I don't mean to call whoever a lier, but if you only have one pound of > coal to begin with you can't get 3 pounds of CO2 out of it. Conservation > of mass comes to mind. > > MH wrote: > > Earth at Night Image > > http://globalwarming.enviroweb.org/ishappening/peopleemc2/earthatnight_im > >age.html > > > > "It takes a pound of coal to generate the electricity to light a 100-watt > > bulb for 10 hours. For every pound of coal we burn, nearly three pounds > > of carbon dioxide go into the atmosphere." yes it can... it consumes 2 pounds of Oxygen... more or less. atomic mass of C ia 12, O is 16... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Global Warming
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:01 pm, MH wrote: > "It takes a pound of coal to generate the electricity to light a 100-watt > bulb for 10 hours. For every pound of coal we burn, nearly three pounds of > carbon dioxide go into the atmosphere." Coal is bad enough, but concrete (portland cement) is worse. for every ton, 5.5 tons of CO2 are produced. I like the statement "We don't really know what is going on, but you can be pretty sure that we can't go on dumping all this junk into the environment and not have a dramatic and adverse effect" or words to that effect. I have heard plenty of ideas about reversing green house evvects, from sequestering liquid CO2 in geosinks to Fe seeding the southern ocean to tie up CO2 as boita that sink down the thermocline... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] australia ethanol news
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:06 am, Steve Spence wrote: > properly washed biodiesel has no appreciable amounts of alcohol left in it. when I wrote: > > I have heard arguements that leaving the eexcess ehtanol in the BD does > > no harm (increases the calorific value of the fuel which also redresses > > the slight loss of performance of BD over dinodiesel). But it seems to > > me that > > it is more valuable as a feed stock and hence should be recovered by > > distillation before washing the biodiesel... has anyone had any joy or > > experience of this? I know washed BD has no alcohol. What I want to know is is it worth attempting to recover teh alcohol from both the unwashed biodiesel and the glycerine? Heck, you could do this _after_ reacting and _before_ settling to save double handling... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] australia ethanol news
Hi all, I know that there is some ethanol (or more likely methanol) left in the BD and some ethanol left in the glycerine and I can see the advantage of extracting the ethanol from the glycerine, especially if it is a waste stream... I have heard arguements that leaving the eexcess ehtanol in the BD does no harm (increases the calorific value of the fuel which also redresses the slight loss of performance of BD over dinodiesel). But it seems to me that it is more valuable as a feed stock and hence should be recovered by distillation before washing the biodiesel... has anyone had any joy or experience of this? On teh other hand, has anyone ever noticed any damage to their vehicles using ethanol in their fuel? hasn't Sth America been using high levels of ethanol for years? On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 05:13 pm, murdoch wrote: > Wednesday March 26, 03:14 PM > > Vic set for mandatory ethanol labelling > > > The Victorian government announced the state would be the first in > Australia to introduce mandatory labelling of ethanol content in fuel. > > Victorian Consumer Affairs Minister John Lenders said that from May 1, > petrol stations would be required to disclose fuel's ethanol content > at the pump. > > > Labels will state whether ethanol content is up to a maximum of 10 per > cent, or more than 10 per cent. > > Ethanol has been promoted as an octane enhancer and clean additive to > fuel, but in concentrations of more than 10 per cent is reported to > damage vehicles' engines and fuel systems. > > Under the new laws, petrol stations caught selling fuel without > ethanol content labels will face fines of up to $60,000, or $25,000 > fines for individuals. > > Mr Lenders said Consumer Affairs Victoria would police the system with > random tests across the state. > > He said the state government had decided to act after the federal > government failed to regulate ethanol content. > > "The Howard government is ignoring mounting community concern and > calls by Victoria and other states to effectively control the level of > ethanol in fuel," Mr Lenders said. > > He said the federal government should implement a 10 per cent cap on > ethanol in fuel. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ethanol batteries
from /. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3539 -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:03 pm, Appal Energy wrote: > Maybe if the boob tube generation weren't glued to their sets, there > wouldn't be such a frenzy to feed them. > > If you're one of those watching, then they're playing to you. > > Now which is more obscene? Don't the viewers have any feelings for the > victims? > > Couldn't they just read the paper or get the synopsis off NPR? What is it > that possesses them to lose themselves in everything from tradgedy in the > making to farce for hours at a time? > > Todd Swearingen > > "Fight Prime Time. Read a Book." > (or a newspaper) hehehe... "Work, Consume, Die!" see, that is what it is all about, the global media armchair live conflict game - reality TV come full circle. nothing to do with war or terrorism or oil. it is the media driving the whole shebang... (tongue firmly in cheek - er. looking back on it, it may come across that I am having a scarcastic go at Todd - not my intent, OK... merely exposing another line of thought...) has anyone see a movie from a few years back, the Second Civil War? funny! harsh! Like Micheal Moore on a good day. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] the joy of dumpster diving...
well, today I did the only sensible thing,... I dove into the skip down stairs where tehy are refurbishing the eng building and scavenged 5 or 6 pieces of copper pipe - the longest about 3 m long. with a little annealing and shaping I should soon have a steam/water heated coil for oil heating... :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
metalic zinc as fuel... basically, you have a fuel cell that consumes zinc to produce electricity. At the fuel station you buy zinc by the kg, dump it in the tank, empty and refresh the old (zinc laden) acid and refill the acid tank... and go... No batteries, no mess, smaller engines I seem to recall that zinc as electric fuel (once efficiencies are taken into account) was more energy dense than petrol... but that may be wishful thinking on my part... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
seen the UPS flywheels? www.beakonpower.com I think... On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:36 am, kirk wrote: > The first time I saw this it was used as an interim power supply until a > diesel generator could be fired up and switched in. A massive flywheel > supplied the interim power and of course speed was constantly decelerating. > It is not a backyard get em going type thing. Electronics are involved. The > customer needed a glitchless mainframe so cost was secondary. > > Kirk > > -Original Message- > From: Ken Basterfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:38 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators > > > Kirk, > can you give some more detail please > Ken > > - Original Message - > From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:18 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators > > > You can modulate (electrically rotate) the field so mechanical > > relationship > > > is alterable, thus frequency. > > Kirk > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:51 AM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators > > > > > > sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. > > > > Steve Spence > > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > http://www.green-trust.org > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - > > From: "filip.ponsaerts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators > > > > > To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating > > > electricity. > > > > > > Filip > > > > > > >Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz > > > > output > > > > > >in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. > > > > > > > >Curtis > > > > > > > >Get your free newsletter at > > > >http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL > > > > > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > > >From: Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > >in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, > > > > and > > > > > >use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for > > ac > > > > >generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet > > > > motors > > > > are > > > > > >interchangeable. > > > > > > -- > > > --- > > > Martin Klingensmith > > > http://nnytech.net/ > > > http://infoarchive.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > B
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
One idea I heard was to make windmills with the rotor stator on the rim rather than have the generator at the centre. (As explained to me) the trade off is as follows: the bigger the windmill, the greater the structureal efficiency (more power per structure, the lower the required wind speed to extract power) Upper limit on centrally mounted generators is the cost of scaling up the generator not the bearing. Move the generating coil to the outer rim, have base mounted (tracking) linear motor at the bottom. You loose in that you have to make a ring rather than just blades, but you gain in that you can make a much bigger windmill for the same cost because the main cost is the centrally mounted generator. In addition, the most maintenance sensitive part is the motor, now mounted on the ground... On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:05 pm, filip.ponsaerts wrote: > To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating > electricity. > > Filip > > >Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output > >in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. > > > >Curtis > > > >Get your free newsletter at > >http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL > > > > > >- Original Message - > > From: Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and > >use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac > >generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors > > are interchangeable. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] other fuel sources from waste... plastics.
Hi all, I used to be a PhD in the polymer blends area. I attended a seminar from Melb Uni Chem eng where they were exploring the posibility of converting polymer waste back to high Q feed stocks - methanol, acetone, alcohol, etc. often by pyrolysis. In our home the majority of the rubbish that goes in the bin (and it is not much at that... seems we have dropped the amount of rubbish by 75% since abandoning the super markets and going to the Vic Market instead) is plastic bags. green scraps go to the chickens or the dog (if she manages to steal them from the bucket) glass, most metal, common plastics (PET, PP, HDPE) bottles go to the recycling. (tetrapacks! they get recycled! how the bloody hell do they manage that!!!) food, animal waste, food contaminated paper, even Al foil goes to the compost. that leaves mostly cling film (ldpe) plastic bags (pe and occasionally pp) and the occasional packaging (PE or PS) and the occasional PVC container... My question is - has anyone found a way to process these in the home? I am inspired by the discussion of wood gassifiers and mixing sawdust with waste oil. surely one could do the same with these materials? - well, being careful to avoid the PVC :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:55 am, bratt wrote: > One of the local machinest group members tests salvaged motors from old > vcr's, computers. etc., by chucking them in his lathe and spinning them, > with a light bulb connected. They are working as an alternator or > generator without modification. > > Ed Neat! Yet another reason to get a Lathe.... :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:51 am, Darryl McMahon wrote: > Now that we are ready, I expect we should never require its use (reverse > Murphy logic). If I happen to acquire a couple of good sized PV panels, I > might put the whole package together as a UPS for the computer - the number > of power glitches this winter (under a second) have been rather annoying. > I am hoping the province's current misguided campaign to induce folks to > install PV panels may result in some bargains in a couple of years. I came across these guys a while ago - you may find them interesting - flywheel based UPSs... www.beaconpower.com unfortunately requires flash to view the website... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Sasol - was [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 04:37 pm, csakima wrote: > What would worry me is that ... if for some reason, EMERGENCY(!!), the > fire "had" to be put out ... how would you do it?? > > Curtis > > Get your free newsletter at > http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL > the short answer is that you cannot. when the whole terrorist thing started up recently, it occured to me that teh most obvious target in terms of damage to for example Victoria, but equally to most coal bearing areas - e.g. India. would be a deliberately started fire. the thing about coal and shale oil is that it will self combust. brown coal is ~60% water. As it dries out, it cools down. if it getrs wet again, the increase in temperature is sufficient to ignite it. As it dries out more, it oxidises... this again increases the temperature. Once ignited, it is difficult to put out, especially once established. Leave a coal seam alight for a week or two and no amount of water will put it out. In Indonesia, once the fire sight is ID'd the way to kill it is to dig out the seam around the fire (big trench - tens of meters deep) and back fill with soil... then wait for the fuel to run out. the recently put out a fire in a NSW black coal mine - pumped in hydraulic expanding cement to seal the burning area off. took a few years to cool down sufficiently to be called 'out'... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] "Arrogance of Power"
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 02:13 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the > time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I > think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are > diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could > Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. > > Jenn Certainly the ability for military hardware to run on a wide variety of fuels is a significant advantage for any army. seems to me vegi oil is the most likely to be available fuel in any war zone :-) well, maybe after moonshine ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:58 am, bratt wrote: > There are a number of New Zealand companies which sell equipment that could > be used to produce small quantities of alcohol fuel, for experimental > purposes, and they do sell to Australia. You should be able to buy one > locally from a plumbing supply, or hardware. > > One that has immersion heaters is http://www.spiritsunlimited.co.nz/ > > Some other links are at http://www.homedistiller.org/links.htm > > EdB Wacks self over head with 2x4... ofcourse, Home Brew shops! wacks self again for good measure... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Hi Chris, Todd, All. this made me think of wine presses... which surely would be readily available. My father is a winemaker so I have spent my childhood helping press wine in this way... pulped grapes are placed in PP mesh sacks (e.g. grain sacks) and pressed with a flat round plate and a large screw press in a slotted wood, steel strap reinforced cylinder. the remaining lees are not dry, but only damp and certainly crumbly (and tend to stain the fingers... :-) On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:05 am, Chris wrote: > Todd, many years ago I was working in a small tofu production facility, we > had a device to press the cooked, ground soybean slurry, to separate the > solids from the liquids, to make soy milk, and then into tofu. It was an > upright hydraulic press with a 24 inch diameter tub, about 30 inches high, > with a drain at the bottom. The plunger was a solid plate fitted to the ram > end of the hydraulic cylinder that would fit just inside the tub. The > solids were placed in a fine mesh nylon bag. It worked very well. I believe > it would work for the problem you state. I've seen similar equipment for > making apple cider. > > For those with tractor hydraulics available, you could use the hydraulic > pump off the tractor. Save some money not buying a pump and power source. > > For smaller scale biodiesel production possibly the same type setup, but > with a long lever instead of the hydraulic cylinder. A heavy weight could > be placed on the end of the lever and left there for a period of time. Or, > another thought...a frame for pressing as described above, but using a > tractor hylift jack instead of the hydaulics of the lever. > > Just some thoughts. > > Chris Amar -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 12:51 am, Appal Energy wrote: > Paul, > > What I was differing with on the "high grade vs low grade' aspect was the > saturated vs unsaturated aspect that Ken mentioned, with the heavier > saturated fats that tend to settle towards the bottom being of "lower" > grade. Cool, so neither of us was wrong, merely failing to communicate or understand - which ever way you wish to think of it... actually, it only takes one to misunderstand, and I'll happily take that role on :-) But now I do understand, thank you. > Both saturated and unsaturated make good biodiesel. Just that saturated has > a higher cloud point and will exhibit winter associated problems more > quickly. I didn't know that. From a materials engineering point of view, I would expect the following to increase cloud point: longer chains chain branching higher polarity e.g. ester/ether/hydroxyl groups or double bonds in the chains, especially 1 or 2 C from one end. so by that rational I would expect unsaturated oils (some percentage of backbone double bonds) to have a higher cloud point > Plans to use the waste heat and exhaust are already in the mix for a > greenhouse - the CO2 rich exhaust will suit such purposes enormously well. > We'll just have to "vent before human entry," even though gasifier exhaust > contains far less CO than "conventional" exhaust. let me know how it turns out... I am interested in this sort of thing also. I intend to pass the exhaust gasses from the shed workshop through a spray chamber to scrub and cool them. It will be interesting to see how well that works for engine/heater exhaust too. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater
I thought you meant like an immersion heater... q1) anyone recomend where I can get one in the big brown land of Oz (melbourne esp.) q2) I was thinking a hot water/steam powered one - take a sealed pot, a suitable hose and a coiled copper pipe. place teh coil in the oil, place teh pot o water on the burner -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:42 am, Donald Strong wrote: > OIL PRESS > > Todd: How about modifying one of the common log splitters ? ( think potato > ricer on the end of the ram). > > Don Strong, proud tennis-ball machine there was a list in Joshua Tickells book "From the fryer to the fuel tank"... I will see if I can remember to bring the book allong and transcribe the URLs... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 03:16 pm, bratt wrote: > Have you considered making up a centrifuge to spin the mass and get the oil > out? Some of the apple growers have adapted Scharf spin dryers and even > washing machines for use as a centrifuge in cider production. Hey! you've been litstening to my brain waves again haven't you? :-) my father used to keep bees. I think the honey extractor is still floating around. anyhoo, it should be possible to build one using a 44 gallon drum, bicycle gear and a couple of bearings. the other approach would be to use a cyclonic seperation process this is a little out of my experience though... must catch up with my biomass fixated mech engineering friend :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 03:30 pm, Appal Energy wrote: > And to think...all I wanted to do was squeeze the guts out of a few hundred > pounds of oil soaked burger chips > > I wouldn't consider the saturated fats necessarily a "low grade" feedstock, > nor the biodiesel from same to necessarily be inferior. It would just have > a higher cloud point is all. Still a perfectly good fuel under most > conditions. > > Todd Swearingen Just to clarify what I mean by high grade versus low grade. It may be a high grade fuel once you seperate it from all the rest of the junk, thus the desire to press it. But (IMHO) it is low grade, atleast wrt WVO as you do need to do an additional step to extract the value. high grade (or high value if you prefer) implies to my mind little or no processing or inexpensive/low tech/simple/cheap equipment to process it. especially where the energy input is low or free. low grade implies to me that the opposite is true. The fuel source contains lots of contamination or materials that are hard to remove or requires expensive equipment, difficult processing, or energy intensive processing, especially wrt other equivelent sources. if you don't want to compost it, pyrolise it. Or straight out burn it to make steam - water gas, electricity, as energy source for distilling, etc. etc. My point really is that teh optimal use for a given matter stream will depend on a number of factors and (self imposed - e.g. not wanting to use dinofuels) limitations. If cost effectiveness is your aim, (and your definition of cost may vary :-) ) then the choice of what you use a given feed strock for will (er... should?) be based on the best return for your effort. Given two feedstocks, WVO and dumster trash with WVO all though it, I would make the WVO into diesel and use the trash either as compost, methane digestion, fermentation, or low grade fuel to make steam etc. to refine the diesel/ distil (m)ethanol. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:23 am, Thor Skov wrote: > OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but > rather about home energy generation. > > I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go > with passive solar heating supplemented with an > efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). my only comment on this is be aware of wood stove emmissions. In cities they seriously contribute to asthma causing smog. they are banned in my local municipality in all new homes... people still install them though... *sigh* > My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to > use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to > preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to > electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. > Does anyone know of a design for such a system? No hints I am afraid, but one comment I would make is that Si based solar panels decrease dramatically in efficiency when heated. so solar hot water and solar power generation are contra-indicated. infact it is worth your while to water cool you solar panels if you have access to cheap (rain) water... there is a new type of solar panel - DSC - that utilises a different type of electricity generation - nano-particle TiO2 and a photosensitive dye - that increases efficiency with temperature... I was thinking of setting up a parabolic trough lined with alfoil, a strip of these panels and backing them with hot water pipes but I have too many other projects going at the moment, so it will have to wait... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:42 am, Jack Kenworthy wrote: > I have a 55 gall drum > of ethanol lying around that I can't make biodiesel with out of curiosity, why not? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Sasol - was [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:14 pm, Keith Addison wrote: > --- > > >We have in Canada, a massive store of petroleum in the Athabasca Tar > >Sands. Estimates are that it is 400 times (or was it 4,000) times > >the known regular world oil reserves. It is oil soaked shale, > >costly to extract. there are so many things wrong with shale oil... a while ago I was looking at various patents (the co i was working for had a neat idea as to how to process this stuff... thank god they went belly up). basically, I found a really scary patent. to extract oil from coal and/or shale oil, you have to heat it up (Pyrolise it in low O2 atm.). this does 2 things, it vapourises teh volitile fraction and breaks (cracks) the non-volitile into liquid or gaseous fractions. One patent involved rubblising the shale oil insitu (e.g. underground) then setting fire to it and collecting the liquids and gasses driven off. Now in most places in the world, underground fires are avoided... anyone see the series of articles in NS recently talking about the bushfires in indonesia being ignited by coal seam fires? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:16 pm, Ken Provost wrote: > >Boil [remove water], filter, try to make fuel? > >I don't know, slop from a dumpster could have > >anything in it. > > I'd be most concerned about high levels of > saturated fats -- that's what usually inspires > ME to throw out the last of a barrel. The sat. > fats continue to settle in the barrel -- even- > tually you get an oil that would give a biodiesel > like butter :-) What I need is a good way to > utilize (or dispose of) THAT crap. -K wouldn't you be better off keeping the high grade stuff (e.g. initial waste oil) as you biodiesel feed stock and using the waste being discussed here in some sort of methane digestor to produce a nice high grade methane feedstock - e.g. for use to make methanol? I seem to recall something about using methane and a catalyst in air to make methanol and that it was a relatively easy process... curse my feeble memory... Zubrin was talking a lot about fuel making processes for Mars colonisation... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:35 pm, Mark Ehle wrote: > I am brand new member on this list. > > When do we start talking about biofuel? I know you are trying damn hard to ignore it, but i believe this was a sarcastic comment about the amount of OT content, especially about the current hostilities, liberals versus conservatives, and other marginally biodiesel discussion on the list at the moment... sure I would prefer the discussion to be more on topic. 150 emails in a weekend is quite hefty. but then a judicious choice of which emails I read helps... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: [Burnveggies] excise tax, biodiesel, and war
On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:34 am, girl_mark_fire wrote: > Calif. does have the most expensive fuel prices (petroleum, not just > biodiesel) in the US- and that's not necessarily the fault of taxes- > just fuel sellers taking advantage of their random and corporate > right to charge people whatever the hell they want. We're looking at > $2.19 minimum for 89 octane gasoline at the moment, much higher for > higher octane stuff. World Energy biodiesel is $3.40 a gallon in SF. > > oh well. Doesn't affect me- my biodiesel still costs 43 cents a > gallon. > > thanks for the clarifications on your tax situation! still seems to me that the problem is that this is just not a high enough cost for oil... given that the co.s that produce it will never have to pay for cleaning up the damage it is doing to the planet... so biodiesel at 43c/gallon is cheap not just because it is less cost, but because there is no associated damage to the wrold as a result of using it (other than a bit of heat polution... - and neglecting the cost of making cars... and the fact that in general we use way more stuff than we relly need. OK, maybe not a stirling example, but still, a darn sight better than petrodiesel...) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:56 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 2) Mistaken my quote "It's a book. > oops! (silly mistake) > J yeah. All the best ones are... If one considers that, with a few notable exception (napalm and nylon), most discoveries occur with a "that's funny" instead of a "eureka!", then mistakes are the biggest sorce of advancement mankind knows... so by that rational, I am one of the most prolific researchers I know :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Assasins and suicide bombers...
On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 05:03 am, Greg and April wrote: > I knew it went back farther than WW2, just couldn't find a reference. Do > you have some I can check out? yerah, somewhere, but I'd have to dig... I suggest google... wait... *sigh* just googled for assasin and history... no useful hits, but lots and lots of game stats and character/film references Make you doubt the intelligence of the human race cool! got one! and it looks pretty good too. enjoy... http://www.iis.ac.uk/learning/life_long_learning/assassin_legends/assassin_legends.htm -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 04:00 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dr Paul van den Bergen > Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures > caia.swin.edu.au > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > IM:bulwynkl2002 > It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. > > H Paul > Are there any on-line reviews? > James huh? 'scuse my non-comprehension here. I can see a couple of things you could mean. 1) oil prices A. no idea. 2) Mistaken my quote "It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one." by Blank Reg (of Max Headroom fame) as a advert for an actual book I am somehow associated with. A. I don't know. I encountered Max Headroom as a youngster. I came across this quote while trying to google for the email address of a friend of a friend who I knew worked for Zik, who ran(runs) zikzak, a name also derivitive from Max Headroom. Go google! your friend on the internet. or 3) You realise 2) and are trying to confuse/joke with me... How could I tell? Inscrutable. :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 04:13 am, Greg and April wrote: > >Suicide bomber is a very new > > phenomena > > Not realy. It goes back to at least WW2. I believe this idea is older than that... atleast back to the 6th century??? Assasins... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 03:57 am, John E Hayes III wrote: > >>>>I have been mostly deleting all the political discussion recently... In > >>>>addition to it making me ill, I just don't have anything to say. > >>> > >>>Why not? > >> > >>A number of reasons. I have been inundated with it, and none of it will > >>change my mind and I doubt I'll change anyone elses. > > > >People's minds, behaviour and actions are very often changed through > >discussion with other people. That has happened here quite a lot. > > "In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a > really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would > actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them > again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, > because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it > happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like that > happened in politics or religion." -- Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote > address > > Cheers > > John Yes, it has happened to me too. Several times. One time I remember particularly was arguing with my wife until 3 am in the morning that science and religion were not related. She finally convinced me that they were related. then I could go to sleep (to be clear, she was happy to leave it. I kept arguing. I think she was vaguely bemused. Tired, but bemused. Frustrated but bemused. I know she likes me because I woke up free of bruises :-) ) I guess my own lack of clarity has made it very hard for me to articulate exactly why it is wrong to go to war here. I mean, I can think of dozens of reasons, but without a clear idea as to why the US (if living in the US substitute "washington", if in Washington substitute "the folks on the hill" or whatever...) wants to go to war so badly. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:22 pm, murdoch wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:36:29 -0600, you wrote: > > I was looking at the one year chart on > > Light Sweet Crude Oil Apr 2003 (NYMEX:CLJ3) > > http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYMEX_CLJ3&v=d12 > > with a report below chart. > > > > Quite a steep drop the past few days. > > Basically gone from $38 barrel to $30 > > I think it's more or less analagous to what happened in the first Gulf > War. Once the uncertainty was removed, the price dropped. I don't > know what would make it go back up, because you have a lot of push > behind that drop. The "spiggots" have been open for some days or > weeks now. However, a destruction of the oil fields I suppose could > make things interesting oil-price-wise. so are we caught between a rock and a hard place here? if oil prices go up, biodiesel becomes viable. but the economy goes bad. Prices go down, biodiesel remains the domain of a few religious zealots... personally I'd like to see tripple ledger accounting enacted in teh energy industry... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A third option - USA versus Europe.[long]
le and knows it will get worse the > day America starts exploiting its take-over of Afghanistan by running > a pipeline southwards via Afghanistan from the giant southern Caspian > oil fields. Currently, that oil is piped northwards -- where Russia > has control. > > Russia is in the process of ramping up oil production with the > possibility of trading some of it for euros and selling some to the > US itself. Russia already has enough problems with the fact that oil > is traded in US dollars; if the US has control of Iraqi oil, it could > distort the market to Russia's enormous disadvantage. In addition, > Russia has interests in Iraqi oil; an American take over could see > them lost. Already on its knees, Russia could be beggared before a > mile of the Afghanistan pipeline is laid. > > ANOTHER SOLUTION? > > The scenario clarifies the seriousness of America's position and > explains its frantic drive for war. It also suggests that solutions > other than war are possible. > > Could America agree to share the trading goodies by allowing Europe > to have a negotiated part of it? Not very likely, but it is just > possible Europe can stare down the USA and force such an outcome. > Time will tell. What about Europe taking the statesmanlike, > humanitarian and long view, and withdrawing, leaving the oil to the > US, with appropriate safeguards for ordinary Iraqis and democracy in > Venezuela? > > Europe might then be forced to adopt a smarter approach -- perhaps > accelerating the development of alternative energy technologies which > would reduce the EU's reliance on oil for energy and produce goods it > could trade for euros -- shifting the world trade balance. > > Now that would be a very positive outcome for everyone. > > . . . . > > Geoffrey Heard is a Melbourne, Australia, writer on the environment, > sustainability and human rights. > . . . . > > Geoffrey Heard C 2003. Anyone is free to circulate this document > provided it is complete and in its current form with attribution and > no payment is asked. It is prohibited to reproduce this document or > any part of it for commercial gain without the prior permission of > the author. For such permission, contact the author at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > SOME REFERENCES AND FURTHER INFORMATION: > > http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html > 'The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq: A Macroeconomic and > Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth' by W. Clark, January > 2003 (revised 20 February), Independent Media Center, > www.indymedia.org > > http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=28334 > This war is about more than oil. OIL DOLLARS DOLLARS, THE EURO > AND WAR IN IRAQ. > This story is based on material posted by Richard Douthwaite on the > FEASTA list in Ireland. > > http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1550023_comment.php#1551138 > USA intelligence agencies revealed in plot to oust Venezuela's > President > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp- > dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentI > d=A41444-2003Jan11¬Found=true > Washington Post > Split Screen In Strike-Torn Venezuela > By Mark Weisbrot Sunday, January 12, 2003; Page B04 > > http://www.atimes.com/global-econ/DD11Dj01.html > Asia Times online: Global Economy > US dollar hegemony has got to go > By Henry C K Liu > > http://www.feasta.org/energy.htm > > http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html > The Observer > The Enemy Within > by Gore Vidal London, Sunday 27 October 2002 -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] are you ready for peace?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:30 am, Kim & Garth Travis wrote: > Thanks for responding with encouraging words, Keith. > > I am an old hippie, and have always believed in peace, love and > brotherhood. When we moved to the deep south, in Texas, some people > called us 'N' lovers, if you know what I mean. I just smiled and told > them we are all God's children. > > It seems like the tolerance and welcome of differing peoples has really > faded in North America. Maybe it is just that the hatred of something > different is louder than it used to be, but no more people are involved > than in the old days. I hope. > > Bright Blessings, > Kim has anyone here seen "Bowling for Columbine"? (I know - really OT now...) IMHO, it is worth it. Mike Moore can be a little preachy at times, but in this case it works kinda well. Really opened my eyes. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mass Iraqi defections forecasted
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:20 am, Steve Spence wrote: > Already Iraqi soldiers are surrendering and crossing into Kuwait as > defectors. Kuwait government is forecasting large scale defections. really? I hope it is true. just heard a disturbing discussion this morning about informational warfare. speading rumours such as mass defections, leaders shot, suicided, etc. heres to a short bloodless war. I doubt it'll happen but still. Here is a question. what should happen after? I have no bloody idea. I think I know what _will_ happen, it'll be a bloody mess. anyone see any light at the end of this? (note: seems I have given up on keeping out of this.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
about the same as one patriot missile) the only conclusion I can reach is that nothing in this war on terror and all the associated baggage has anything to do with wiping out terrorism or anything like that and is all down to vested interests and ego. and you can't argue with someone who holds views like that. > Did you read this message? - or delete it as "political"? > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=22659&list=BIOFUEL read it. Agree with you. I was not saying you are wrong. Heck, not sure what I was saying any more. perhaps this sums it up. this war makes me wanna puke. war war war. media wanna show pretty impressive pictures of things that might be WOMD being blown up between large-breasted burbon adverts. policitions have agenda the don't wanna share. sick of it all, don't want to argue about it, don't want to read about it it is all too depressing. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:00 am, Hakan Falk wrote: > $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the > "American way of life". $40 for a longer period will be very > difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to > deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several > US data, so do not get angry with me. This also means > that Iraqi suggestions of oil blockade, was an immediate > threat to the US national security and probably the reason > for the war. It is however not yet a recognized crime to > refuse to deliver national treasures to the US, but in future it > might be. didn't the US some time ago classify threats to Industrial assets as well as military and strategic assets (or what ever) as part of the definition for spying etc. activity? clear and present danger and all that... (can't recall source, but something to do with Escelon) ofcourse, I may be wrong... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:06 am, Greg and April wrote: > I went to the groups section and tried to e-mail the messages, that I had > not received, to my self ( using yahoos little box to e-mail a massage to > others ), and that didn't even come through. I update Norton's AV twice a > week and scanning my system once a week, more if I hear of a new bug making > the rounds, so I doubt that it's my system. > > Then again it could have been the carnivore, because I did mention a few > things that is " not to be talked about ", and I always seem to have a few > problems with e-mail, after talking about them even little as I did that > one post. > > Greg H. could it be your email settings? (on yahoo?) I have (had) this problem because the address I usually email from is work, and I am subscribed to my home address. So mail sent to the list does not arrive because it is not comming from a members email. check the following on your yahoo settings. go to your groups page. (er. if the DB is not down, like this morning) I can't recall where, but there is a section where you add additional email addresses. Do this then validate the email address. Once that is done, select email preferences (I am doing this from memory) check the emails are going to the right address. select email setting (options?) for the email address you are sending to, there is a section at the bottom with 4 slots for additional addresses. put your local address here. if that was teh problem, ithis may fix it... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:11 pm, Keith Addison wrote: > FAIR-L > Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting > Media analysis, critiques and activism > > ACTION ALERT: > In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views > > March 18, 2003 I have been mostly deleting all the political discussion recently... In addition to it making me ill, I just don't have anything to say. (well, perhaps that it is a little OT for biofuels, but I don't mind. that is what the Del key is for, right?) Usually in these situations I can sit back and quote teh wonderful mantra we aussies have, "only in America"... Implying that America is big, bloated, self-important, blinker-visioned and largely stupid [1]. But I can't now, because we (regardless of how much we say, "well I didn't vote for him") are doing this too. Damn it! Someone today pointed out that the expected cost of the war (not including the cost of maintaining Iraq afterwards, or whatever) is close to 100 billion USD... what else could we do with 100 billion USD? (well, except pay off something less than 5% of 3rd world debt, currently running at US$2.3 million million...) [1] Present company excepted, ofcourse ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Oil type Q. cotton versus canola
One of my sources has just switched from canola to cotton... should I expect a change in behaviour? (processing, not the final product) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fw: Observations about Turk's waste oil burner
A bloke I used to know (who was inclined to the occasional bs, either through design, ignorance or force of habit) had an italian designed spray nozzle that used to set up a resonance field between the outlet and the nozzle. apparently it would, if at the right pressure range, set up a resonance filed in the ultrasonic range that would shatter the fluid column. He claimed to have spray-painted tar and molten PET... these types of nozzle if they do as claimed, have always seemed to me to be ideal for waste fuel stream combustion applications (oils, tars, recycled mixed plastics)... Unfortunaltely that is the sum total of the info I have on these BTW, can that oil burner run on glycerine? On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 06:35 am, Steve Spence wrote: > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/turk -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
