Re: [biofuel] Babington Burners and methanol safety
mark, one possible cure for this problem would be to draw a vacuum off the sump. this would distill off the methanol which could be condensed in a dewar or cold trap. the cold trap could be cooled by dry ice or ice and salt mixture (ammonium nitrate and crushed ice). an added bonus would be that the flammable methanol vapors would be drawn away from biodiesel heating source. regards,roger -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] USING SEPARATOR FOR AFTER WASH TREATMENT OF ME
doug, to check the possibilty that sunlight might involved, why not cover the glass cylinder with an opaque covering and only remove it for inspection? a Van De Graft(sp?) generator could supply charges for expermental purposes. just my humble observation. regards,roger > So, the old question of centrifuge vs. straight gravity separation has > re-surfaced. I had dismissed centrifuges for various reasons, but would > still like to speed things up. One action I have observed is that when > misty ME is left to settle in a glass cylinder, a lot of the water is > attracted to the side walls rather than the bottom of the vessel. Once on > the sides, small water droplets coalesce and fall to the bottom. > The same is not observed in metal or HDPE vessels. My speculation is that > because the water molecules are polar, while the ME is non-polar, and the > glass is electrically non-conducting, then a static electrical charge on the > cylinder attracts the water. If this is true, it is left to devise a way of > charging a larger non-conductive plastic vessel (inside +ve, outside -ve or > vice-versa) and we have the makings of a nice quiet but effective process > :-) > By way of caution, I still harbour a suspicion that clearing may be due to > peroxidation stimultated by daylight, and that the observations could have > nothing to do with electrical charge. Who knows? > > David T. > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US & Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] waste oil burners burning glycerine, ffa's
mike, iwould be interested in low-cost insulating materials if you have that info. regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > My guess is that he was talking about unconventional liquid fuels in general. > > I think the effect was first noted by the British Army some 60 years ago > when > they burned > sump oil to keep warm in the deserts of north Africa. I'm sorry I no longer > have > the > references but drip-plate burner designs developed at that time have been > published. > > They also noted that used-sump oil containing some water burned cleaner than > new > engine oil. The water in the fuel has two advantages: In expands explosively > to > steam > and so aids the production of fine oil droplets. And the water vapour reacts > with any > deposited carbon to form carbon monoxide and hydrogen which happily burn to > give > more heat. I guess people don't often stop to think that liquid fuels are not > themselves > flammable: it is the vapour which they form that burns. So anything you can > do > to > increase the rate of vapour production (such as atomising the fuel and > pre-heating both it > and the air needed for combustion) increases the rate of vapour production > which > leads > to smooth controllable combustion. (Water containing emulsions and separate > water > sprays have also been used with internal combustion engines to increase > efficiency but > that is another story) > > Dissolved or emulsified water can therefore be beneficial because it aids > atomisation of > the fuel to small droplets and it also turns soot into combustible gases. > Provided the water > content is not too high, the latent heat required is more than matched by the > improved > combustion efficiency. 5% to 10% by weight is probably about right for fuels > with a high > calorific value but IMO perhaps half that should be used with glycerol to > avoid > chilling the > flame. > > Incidentally, I used one of these British Army designs to make carbon black > (channel > black) in a small brick unit with a roof made from small pieces of railway > line. > That may > give you a clue as to what happens if heat losses are high! (And the oil we > used > did > contain some water). Insulating the plate (and the whole combustion chamber) > with > suitable ceramics is indeed a great help in sustaining combustion from fuels > with a low > calorific value such as glycerol. So, of course, is mixing it with a fuel of > a > higher calorific > value. > > If anyone is interested in a suitable low-cost insulating material, let me > know. > > Michael Allen > > > 15/01/03 02:24:18, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>Several contributors have spoken about drip plates. I was advised by a > >>prof. of fuel science that dissolving 5% water in the glyc. would cause it > >>to vaporise explosively on contact with the hot plate, so improving > >>atomisation and combustion completeness. Obviously, you would lose the > >>latent heat in the steam, but at 5%, that would be rather small. Anyway, it > >>would be quite easy to try for those with a working furnace. > >> > >>David T. > > > >Hi David > > > >Was he talking specifically about glyc, or about the complete > >by-product, with soap/FFA and catalyst? > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] waste oil burners burning glycerine, ffa's
hello tom, placing the drip plate on which you burn your glycerine in a small chamber made from castable refractory would insure a high temperature environment. these refactories can withstand 3000deg.as for the waste btu's could they not be directed thru a heat exchanger for biodiesel processing and methanol recovery?just a suggestion . regards,roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Hello Tom > > That's glycerine/FFA/catalyst you were working with? Or rather soap, > not FFA. If you separate it: > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html > Separating glycerine/FFAs > > ... you're left with about 95%-pure glycerine (somewhat acidic), and > FFAs, and the catalyst on the bottom. The glyc and FFAs won't mix, > but either of them burns well, especially the FFAs, and I think the > FFAs should be cleaner burning than SVO or WVO. > > I'll be doing more work soon on just how well they burn in what, how > best to use them as fuels, but they do both burn. > > Another method people have experimented with is to mix the raw > by-product, unseparated glyc/soaps/catalyst, with wood chips or > sawdust, but this is where concerns over proper combustion arise. > Top-down gasifier should do nicely though. I want to do some work on > this soon too. > > Regards > > Keith > > > > >I've got a couple years experience with burning glycerin. I had to do it, > >I've got such a large accumulation of the stuff. I've tried it in a couple of > >wood boilers and in a babington burner. The stuff does burn, but it takes > >special conditions to keep it going. Basically, without being exact about the > >fine details, it takes about 1000 degrees of temperature to keep the stuff > >going. Below that temperature and you'll mostly just burn off the methanol > >component, leaving a heavy vegetable based "tar" residue. It tried it in a > >babington, but it does not burn above about a 25% mix with oil. In a wood > >boiler it burns on top of coals well, but when the wood fire dies out it just > >accumulates the glycerin without much reduction. > > > >My current burner has a babington burner running on vegetable oil into a > >masonry stove with a separate drip of glycerin onto a hot steel plate. It > >burns very cleanly and VERY hot. Absolutely no emissions visible. Now I have > >to find out what to do with over 100 btu's per hour. > > > >Tom Leue > > > >In a message dated 1/11/03 3:59:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > >I looked up a few of those commercial oil burners for use with WVO. > > > Sounds pretty interesting, though pricey... something to try and find > > > secondhand, maybe? > > > > > > Then I got an email from a farmer nearby, someone who grows oil crops, > > > asking about biodiesel production for on-farm use, and about ways to > > > reduce > > > waste in the process, all the usual questions people have. We were talking > > > about 'glycerin' and ways to deal with it besides disposal... > > > > > > Does anyone on this list have experience burning their glycerin for shop > > > heat or process heat, using some kind of waste oil burner, either one of > > > these commercial units or one of the homebuilt ones off of > > > Journeytoforever? > > > > > > I know that burning glycerine can produce some toxic gases if not done > > > properly. What is 'properly' in this case? some particular temperature, > > > some particular combustion environment? how does one know, using a > > > Babington or a waste oil burner to burn glycerine byproduct, that it is > > > safe to do so? > > > > > > Also I do the 'ffa recovery' process sometimes- purifying 'glycerine' with > > > an acid to break down the soaps into salt and ffa, and producing a cleaner > > > glycerine for degreaser use. Like everyone I know whose tried this, I've > > > got a bit of ffa byproduct sitting around in my 'odd chemicals' collection > > > now (I believe Ken Provost experimented with using that same ffa in > > > soapmaking?). > > > > > > Todd Swearingen said something once about ffa being a potential fuel > > > source > > > for a Babington Burner, and has said somewhere that he thinks it could be > > > a > > > fuel in other situations. Anyone experimented with this, or any of you > > > engineers out there have any ideas on how well it'll combust and under > > > what > > > conditions? (I don't have anything to try burning it in at the moment). > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mark > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel
Re: [biofuels-biz] Stainless Steel Baths
robb , please email me some photos of tanks. regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] SVO versus BD
Reinhard, thank you for your quick and informative response. i will research the matter further and post my results. kindest regards, roger Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] SVO versus BD
Reinhard, you make a persuasive argument and have me rethinking my current biodiesel efforts. do you or others have experience with burning SVO in a home heating oil burner,for domestic heat and hot water? my other observation is that here in the USA our winters are usually much more severe that in Europe. (at least in the northeast states ,where i live) this would seem to complicate cold weather vehicle operation.thank you for sharing you insights regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] A source for porcine lipase
Glenn, tried to get web site but could not connect. regards,roger Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] genetic engineering
please dig them out and post or email them to me. i would be most greatful. thanks. regards,roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Using GM Organisms to produce biodiesel
ruby, i have not heard of this, but if you get some info please post it or email me.thanks. regards,roger([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] methanol
has any group member tried producing methanol for biodiesel or vehicle fuel from wood gas? kindest regards, roger kurz Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] methanol
has anyone in the group produced their own methanol from wood gas? regards,roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] methanol
does anyone on the list have access to the Kirk Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology? its supposed to have info on wood gas to methanol technology,but at $9500.00 for the 24 vol. set ,the price is a tad to high for me. also anyone that could post Chem Engineering news , june 1987 p22-28."Efforts to convert methane to fuels directly",this would be most helpful. regards, roger Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Enzymes and solid catalysts - was Re: [biofuel] The "thnktnk" group
keith, i agree with glenn's reasoning on this subject and would be willing to support it.i think (would hope) that even with Bush's heavy leaning towards big oil(and i voted for him)that the recent events in the mideast and 9/11,would make the climate right for federal funding.if federal funding is not available then we must dig into our own pockets as we seem to have about 1000 members on the list.if i can assist you on this ,do not hesitate to email me. regards, roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Keith, > > Responding to your msg of the above title, one thing IMO needed for the > project to be successful would be to have a particular site where all the > info would be collected on the subject of developing a suitable backyard > process for producing biodiesel. Including everything that has been > accumulated to date from the thnktnk group, all the leads you itemized, > points of contact, telephone numbers and addresses, and any offers of > assistance. All relevant patents should be included. Key publications > should be listed and availability noted. If not available, they should be > made available on this site for downloading. There should be a section for > "progress reports," where anyone doing work, especially any laboratory or > engineering scale work, should make available brief comments on any results > of their work, including leads that didn't pan out, so that others could > avoid these areas.Someone who had access to a reference library, or > several such persons, information specialists, would be necessary to this > effort. > > Some kind of funding would seem to be necessary, for example, to cover the > necessary costs of finding and making these documents available. Also, to > at least partially support those who have some capabilities to do limited lab > or engineering scale development work. Possibly we could assess those of us > interested in providing a regular monthly fee that could be regularly > collected and provided to support such activities. Everyone who expects to > benefit, IMO, should be required to contribute something to the effort. In > fact I don't see how this project can work without some necessary funding. > The possiblity of Federal grant funding for this project could be > investigated. Keith, perhaps a message from you on this biofuels list, > addressed to any Govt program interested in supporting this kind of effort, > might turn up something. No doubt those in DOE's biomass and transportation > programs, for example, must occasionally scan the messages from this group, > and some, I would expect, might even be members of the group. > > This is about all I can think of for the time being. > > Regards, > > Glenn Ellis > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Enzymes and solid catalysts - was Re: [biofuel] The "thnktnk" group
keith, just continue the fine job ,you and your wife are currently doing. it is the job of the rest of us on the list to do some brainstorming.i think threads on using wood gasifacation to heat the oil and reforming the wood gass to methanol might be helpfull. how about the rest of you guys (and ladies ,of course)? regards,roger > Who's interested? Lotsa folks, eh? Something we're lacking, and that > we need. These techniques have a LOT of advantages to offer. I don't > think they're going to replace our existing single-stage and > two-stage techniques, but they'll certainly advance our capabilities. > They'll go a long way towards solving the glyc problems, for one, and > the cloud point problems for another - with these techniques you can > for instance use isopropynol or butanol instead of methanol or > ethanol to produce branched alkyl esters with very low cloud points, > even from tallow. In many ways they're more efficient techniques than > transesterification or esterification-transesterification (and a lot > easier to type!). > > It's come up here several times, the last time several months ago, > starting once again with the famed INEEL process (Fox-Ginosar), and > this time it went somewhere, we agreed to investigate it further and > hunt down methods that homebrewers and others can use, and a special > group was formed for this purpose. > > But... > > Yeah, well. A sorry tale. My message that Glenn refers to below tells > part of it. If you want to avoid the Yahoo ads and the treacle-like > swimming speed, it's message #12631 at Martin's nnytech archive: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=12631&list=biofuel > Scroll down about halfway to "The other case is a bit different..." > > Basically, it all got abandoned in favour of methods which are not at > all suitable for home-scale, such as supercritical methanol (at 350 > deg C - 660 F and 30 MPa - 296 atmospheres, 4,350 lb/sq in). I got an > expert opinion on this, who was appalled at the idea of messing with > this stuff at anything less than an industrial level. How to die. > > I posted this opinion to the now more or less moribund thnktnk group > that Dana Linscott formed as a closed work group with a handful of > Biofuels list members to investigate enzymes and solid catalysts for > home-brewers, and, no big surprise, got a pissing-match response from > Dana, both on and off-list. > > Prior to this I'd discussed it off-list with members of that group, > trying to find a way forward. I said I didn't want to initiate > anything "because, considering recent history, it might be seen as > some sort of vendetta against Dana, which it's not. (Dana will > certainly think that, but that's his problem.) Can you offer any > suggestions? I think it should be shifted somewhere else, maybe back > to the Biofuels group, or possibly discussed there and then taken > somewhere else. Whatever, it seems rather clear that unless somebody > takes the initiative now it will die. A real waste. There's a need > for this information." (If you're new to all this, see the rest of > message #12631 above for some background re Dana.) > > They agreed there's a need for it, it does need rescuing, it should > be shifted away from that group, but they said I should do it. So, > sigh, alright already. > > So I responded to Dana's letter, on-list at thnktnk, trying to keep > it factual as much as possible. Looking at the thing in detail, it > only confirmed what's already been said - that initiative has gone > astray, has abandoned its goals, and is now going nowhere. That got > another tirade, off-list (and sent to others I think), but I won't > respond to that. > > I also posted a list of leads on enzymes and solid catalysts the > group members had unearthed for further investigation, that had not > been investigated - nine of them in all, and there's more info than > that there that's just been left hanging, including research contacts > made and not followed up and so on. > > There's good promise here, we can do this, we can find ways and > develop good, reliable methods we can all use if we want to. The > groundwork's already been done. > > One member of that group is working away on his own, without any help > from the group itself, rather the opposite in some ways (important > information, contact details etc, had been made available but not > forwarded to the group, amazing). > > Whatever, it's now open, the deadlock's broken. All the information > is available to us. > > So, what next? Come on, guys, tell me what to do. Please. > > All best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Osaka, Japan > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > Glenn wrote: > > >GregandApril asked, in Msg 12463, in response to my msg #12461, "Re: > >thnktnk, etc," "Not much to this message, can anyone elaborate?" > > > >Sorry for my belated response in answer to the incomplete m
Re: Enzymes and solid catalysts - was Re: [biofuel] The "thnktnk" group
jess, i too am looking for info for simplifying the process. i see you live in stanford, i live in southbury. maybe two heads are better than one. regards, roger > Hey Keith, > Let me see if I understand what you are asking here. > > If you are asking me if I'm going to be experimenting on my own with the new > techniques, I'm will not be. However, I'm interested in reading about the > application of alternative and progressive additions/advances toward > shortening or eliminating the processes regarding > esterification-transesterification. I have to tell you though, I'm not as > interested in the industrial level possibilities that some here are > exploring as much as I'm interested in the garage-home do-it-yourself type > of feedback. > We are all on the new frontier of energy exploration/systems so who can > complain? I love this stuff. > > Jess > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jesse Parris|studio53| graphics / web design| > stamford, ct > > This information , and any attachments may contain confidential information > and is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). > ~~~ > > - Original Message - > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 8:24 AM > Subject: Enzymes and solid catalysts - was Re: [biofuel] The "thnktnk" group > > > > Who's interested? Lotsa folks, eh? Something we're lacking, and that > > we need. These techniques have a LOT of advantages to offer. I don't > > think they're going to replace our existing single-stage and > > two-stage techniques, but they'll certainly advance our capabilities. > > They'll go a long way towards solving the glyc problems, for one, and > > the cloud point problems for another - with these techniques you can > > for instance use isopropynol or butanol instead of methanol or > > ethanol to produce branched alkyl esters with very low cloud points, > > even from tallow. In many ways they're more efficient techniques than > > transesterification or esterification-transesterification (and a lot > > easier to type!). > > > > It's come up here several times, the last time several months ago, > > starting once again with the famed INEEL process (Fox-Ginosar), and > > this time it went somewhere, we agreed to investigate it further and > > hunt down methods that homebrewers and others can use, and a special > > group was formed for this purpose. > > > > But... > > > > Yeah, well. A sorry tale. My message that Glenn refers to below tells > > part of it. If you want to avoid the Yahoo ads and the treacle-like > > swimming speed, it's message #12631 at Martin's nnytech archive: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=12631&list=biofuel > > Scroll down about halfway to "The other case is a bit different..." > > > > Basically, it all got abandoned in favour of methods which are not at > > all suitable for home-scale, such as supercritical methanol (at 350 > > deg C - 660 F and 30 MPa - 296 atmospheres, 4,350 lb/sq in). I got an > > expert opinion on this, who was appalled at the idea of messing with > > this stuff at anything less than an industrial level. How to die. > > > > I posted this opinion to the now more or less moribund thnktnk group > > that Dana Linscott formed as a closed work group with a handful of > > Biofuels list members to investigate enzymes and solid catalysts for > > home-brewers, and, no big surprise, got a pissing-match response from > > Dana, both on and off-list. > > > > Prior to this I'd discussed it off-list with members of that group, > > trying to find a way forward. I said I didn't want to initiate > > anything "because, considering recent history, it might be seen as > > some sort of vendetta against Dana, which it's not. (Dana will > > certainly think that, but that's his problem.) Can you offer any > > suggestions? I think it should be shifted somewhere else, maybe back > > to the Biofuels group, or possibly discussed there and then taken > > somewhere else. Whatever, it seems rather clear that unless somebody > > takes the initiative now it will die. A real waste. There's a need > > for this information." (If you're new to all this, see the rest of > > message #12631 above for some background re Dana.) > > > > They agreed there's a need for it, it does need rescuing, it should > > be shifted away from that group, but they said I should do it. So, > > sigh, alright already. > > > > So I responded to Dana's letter, on-list at thnktnk, trying to keep > > it factual as much as possible. Looking at the thing in detail, it > > only confirmed what's already been said - that initiative has gone > > astray, has abandoned its goals, and is now going nowhere. That got > > another tirade, off-list (and sent to others I think), but I won't > > respond to that. > > > > I also posted a list of leads on enzymes and solid catalysts t
Re: [biofuel] Re: fish fat
todd, i believe you may be on to something by connecting growing oilseeds and fish farming. sort of a self sustaining ecosystem. i"ll buy the seed you get the fish. regards, roger > Or a person could farm oilseeds and feed the pond fish the high protein meal. > Take and old barn on a major thoroughfare and turn it into Jake's Yee Ole' > Country Chips, Fish Fry and Tourist trap. > > Todd Swearingen > - Original Message - > From: steve spence > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: fish fat > > > I was thinking of tilapia type farming where fish are fed on effluent, not > other fish.. a biological filter system, where fish are one of the > byproducts. > > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ > Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - > http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:45 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: fish fat > > > > >or fish farms, where the fish are grown for processing, and you aren't > > >hurting "the natural population". > > > > Well, you are, mostly - most of them are fed on wild fish, and the > > ratio is about five to one or something. :-( > > > > There are good, sound ways of doing it, but most fish farms are bad news. > > > > Keith > > > > >Steve Spence > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > > >http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > > > > >Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ > > >Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - > > >http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >- Original Message - > > >From: "manolorolan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: > > >Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:43 AM > > >Subject: [biofuel] Re: fish fat > > > > > > > > >doesn't have sense if we get fish just to use it as carburant, but ... > > > > > >what about places with fish factories, where after processing fish > > >they get tons of leftovers that could be use to produce energy. > > > > > >the best thing is to let them swim on the sea, but it could be a good > > >point to use something booted off and produce energy from it. > > > > > >Manolo Roln > > >Valencia, Spain > > > > > \ > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sodium methoxide
craig, if the keg is stainless steel (304 or 316 SS), you should have no corrosion problems at all. regards, roger > >Thanks for the prompt reply keith. > > You're welcome Craig. > > >The keg is made of stainless steel & is probably double the size for my > >requirements. > > Okay - I was thinking, you only need 10% v/v methoxide for the 2nd > stage, what's he using, a swimming pool? LOL - but that makes sense, > sounds good. > > >My reactor is a 200ltr drum which I'm hoping will provide > >several > >successful batches before the rust gets outta control. > > Should last you at least a year - very low concentration of H2SO4. > > But do mini-batches first! > > Regards > > Keith > > >Best Regards > > CRAIG. > > > >-- > > > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] sodium methoxide > > > Date: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:13 PM > > > > > >Hello everyone. > > >I am very close to starting my first batch of biodiesel & I am > > >currently working on a hazop (hazard analysis) prior to starting my > > >first batch. Reading through a MSDS for methox yesterday, it > > >suggests the following "There is no explosion hazard from this > > >material under > > >normal circumstances.However, may spontaneously burn in air at > > >temperatures above 40'c" I am little bit worried about adding the > > >methox to the oil at a temperature of 55'c, me thinks me might go > > >BOOM! Can anyone reassure me or elaborate on the info contained in > > >the MSDS that I have? > > >I'm working to Alek's foolproof method & will be using a modified > > >50ltr SS beer keg as my methox mixer incorporating a in built stirrer & > > >funnel for caustic dispensing, with a tap in the base for decanting > > >into reactor, I'm also a little concerned that I will not be able to > > >visually determine when mixing of methox is complete due to the > > >nature of my design, only a 2" hole at the top of keg where stirrer > > >is inserted, will this be a problem, or shall I just stir for a > > >longer period to ensure an adequate mix? > > >Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > >Best Regards > > > CRAIG. > > > >Hi Craig > > > >Your methox won't explode. I've never heard of such a thing, but it > >might (?) apply to the chemical called sodium methoxide which you can > >buy from chemical suppliers, I have no idea what the strength of it > >is, but what you mix yourself from methanol and lye is different, and > >the proportion of lye is low, especially in the Foolproof method. > >When mixing, add the lye bit by bit instead of all at once. Check the > >archives for recent messages here, especially from Todd and Alan, on > >mixing methoxide - see thread "acceptable containers for methoxide > >mixing". > > > >I recommend you do a couple of small (1 litre or less) test batches > >first to familiarise yourself with the process. > > > >Your methoxide stirrer is 50 litres?? How big is your reactor? What > >are beer kegs made of? > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] sodium methoxide
craig, if the keg is stainless steel (304 or 316 SS), you should have no corrosion problems at all. regards, roger > >Thanks for the prompt reply keith. > > You're welcome Craig. > > >The keg is made of stainless steel & is probably double the size for my > >requirements. > > Okay - I was thinking, you only need 10% v/v methoxide for the 2nd > stage, what's he using, a swimming pool? LOL - but that makes sense, > sounds good. > > >My reactor is a 200ltr drum which I'm hoping will provide > >several > >successful batches before the rust gets outta control. > > Should last you at least a year - very low concentration of H2SO4. > > But do mini-batches first! > > Regards > > Keith > > >Best Regards > > CRAIG. > > > >-- > > > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] sodium methoxide > > > Date: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:13 PM > > > > > >Hello everyone. > > >I am very close to starting my first batch of biodiesel & I am > > >currently working on a hazop (hazard analysis) prior to starting my > > >first batch. Reading through a MSDS for methox yesterday, it > > >suggests the following "There is no explosion hazard from this > > >material under > > >normal circumstances.However, may spontaneously burn in air at > > >temperatures above 40'c" I am little bit worried about adding the > > >methox to the oil at a temperature of 55'c, me thinks me might go > > >BOOM! Can anyone reassure me or elaborate on the info contained in > > >the MSDS that I have? > > >I'm working to Alek's foolproof method & will be using a modified > > >50ltr SS beer keg as my methox mixer incorporating a in built stirrer & > > >funnel for caustic dispensing, with a tap in the base for decanting > > >into reactor, I'm also a little concerned that I will not be able to > > >visually determine when mixing of methox is complete due to the > > >nature of my design, only a 2" hole at the top of keg where stirrer > > >is inserted, will this be a problem, or shall I just stir for a > > >longer period to ensure an adequate mix? > > >Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > >Best Regards > > > CRAIG. > > > >Hi Craig > > > >Your methox won't explode. I've never heard of such a thing, but it > >might (?) apply to the chemical called sodium methoxide which you can > >buy from chemical suppliers, I have no idea what the strength of it > >is, but what you mix yourself from methanol and lye is different, and > >the proportion of lye is low, especially in the Foolproof method. > >When mixing, add the lye bit by bit instead of all at once. Check the > >archives for recent messages here, especially from Todd and Alan, on > >mixing methoxide - see thread "acceptable containers for methoxide > >mixing". > > > >I recommend you do a couple of small (1 litre or less) test batches > >first to familiarise yourself with the process. > > > >Your methoxide stirrer is 50 litres?? How big is your reactor? What > >are beer kegs made of? > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Vacuum fermentation
your enthusiasm is great! regards,roger > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony & Elle Ackland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A wee while back there was a discussion about vacuum fermentation > for fuel grade ethanol (George ?) > > Have just found a basic page about it at Purdue Uni. Doesnt add > much more detail, but has diagrams. > > > > http://www.esb.ucp.pt/~bungah/working/vacferm.htm > > > > Tony > > Tony, > Thank You.Thank You.Thank You.Thank You.Thank You.Thank You. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6GDALA/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Think People!
"I am,therefore I think ." atleast i think so. roger > I'm not. It's been too long of a day and I'm tired. Neat quotes though. > > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ > Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - > http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Think People! > > > > Okay...I give up... > > > > Who here is not thinking? > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: binarydarkfall > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:31 PM > > Subject: [biofuel] Think People! > > > > > > "What luck for rulers, that men do not think." > > - Adolf Hitler. > > > > Hitler was an evil man and I shouldn't give him any credit for > > anything he said because of his atrocities; however he is a genious > > compared to the average ignorant American. He is right in this quote, > > and the masses will suffer again unless people start to fucking > > think!!! Don't be apathetic now is NOT the time! > > > > "I don't know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but > > World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein > > > > A good genious this time, and if you are too dense to figure out what > > he means is that if there is a third world war we will blast > > ourselves back into the stone age. > > > > -Philip > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Unite and Revolt! > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Livestock role in agriculture
keith, i too applaud your stance. one has only to look at the marvel of creation around us , to come to the conclusion that plants and animals are symbiotic partners in the global ecosystem. how someone can argue otherwise baffles me. regards,roger > Keith, I applaud your sensible stand on the issue of livestock. > > "...there is no sustainable way of raising plants without animals. There > is no traditional farming system that doesn't used animals, and never > has been. It just doesn't work - soil fertility sooner or later > fails, and then everything else fails too. Likewise in nature mixed > farming is the rule, plants are always found with animals. God can't > do it, and neither can we. > > It's absolutely no use trying to argue with these people - it's not > rational, it's a moral crusade, and if you don't agree, then you're > the enemy." > > Working in the field of sustainable agriculture puts me up against this issue > almost daily. It is amazing what conclusions a closed mind can come to. > > Neal Van Milligen > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Hazard reduction when preparing methoxide.
paul, please take great care when handling sodium metal and any alcohol. there is always the possiblity of unwanted byproducts such as peroxides and ethers that explode when looked at the wrong way. not minding your business- i have enought trouble minding my own. just don't want a fellow biofueler to get hurt. regards, roger > > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Paul, > > > > All our experience tells us that the introduction of water into the > equation > > is not adviseable. > > > > A doctorate in chemistry is sitting around the corner from me shaking his > > head, "No way." > [snip] > > Plan to investigate various methods of "methoxide" production. > 1/. Metalic sodium + methanol. > 2/. Solid NaOH + methanol. > 3/ Conc aqueous NaOH + methanol. > > Make BD from each under controlled conditions and have the results analysed. > Perhaps we can discuss this further then. > > > Regards Paul. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re:New page on SVO at Journey to Forever
keith, let me add my name to those appalding your new (SVO) page, you again have done a splendid job. i of course include the woman behind all successfull men , your wife. thank you again for your time in this subject that is so important to all of us who enjoy your site and the biofuels list. kindest regards, roger kurz > Hey Keith, > > Great update. I think that the command-center module is the best promising > idea I've seen so far so I went out to the Biocar.com site to check it out. > What a confused bunch of pages when converted to English. While they may be > good at designing and building a bio-diesel computerized metering device, > they fail miserably at delivering it to the public in a well defined format. > I would never send these guys money based on what I've "read" at the web > site. Maybe they are doing great in Germany, but the market is wide open > here in the States. > > I have hopes that a US designer/engineer will take up the cause and develop > a similar device that can be sold at a reasonable price. My wife, which I > feel represents a lot of green thinkers, says she does not want to be > bothered with cutting on and off various switches and monitoring > dials/gauges when driving. Fair enough. However, she likes the idea of using > wvo/svo in a diesel. So the "command center module" is very appealing but > would have to be completely automatic for main stream users to have it in > their autos. > > I can do the mechanical/electrical end of the installation, but designing a > chip, well, that's another matter. Any software/hardware designers out > there? > > Cheers! > > Jess > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jesse Parris|studio53| graphics / web design| > stamford, ct > > This information , and any attachments may contain confidential information > and is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). > ~~~ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] FW: [Fwd: FW: Guns vs Drs.vs you and me]]
yes so do i , doctors cost much more! roger > I do see a qualitative and functional difference between guns and doctors. > anton > > -Original Message- > From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:46 PM > To: Biofuel@Yahoogroups.Com > Subject: [biofuel] FW: [Fwd: FW: Guns vs Drs.vs you and me]] > > > Something about rapist enablers came to mind when I saw this. > Most people think America is dying in a hail of bullets but that is due to > our press and the agenda. > Guns save more lives than they take. The gun free coast is where you will > get shived for the small change in your pocket. > Up here where a lot of folks carry concealed it is peaceful. And polite. > > Kirk > > > > > Number of physicians in the US: 700,000. > > Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000. > > Accidental deaths per physician 0.171 > (U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services) > > Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000. > > Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups)1,500. > > Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.188 > > Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than > gun owners. > > "FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one Doctor." > > Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. > > We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. > > As a Public Health Measure I have withheld the statistics on Lawyers for > fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical aid! > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 - Release Date: 3/6/2002 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens,pitting conservationists against soccer moms
a well thought response! touche` but i would question the safety of such a light vehicle pulling both the the weight of the trailer and a 10ft.X5ft., 2000lbs load. but then God did very well with the ant design as they seem to carry many times their weight and size. maybe there's a future in cars powered by massive ant colonies.they could be fueled by biomass with no equipment,energy input and they are biodegradeable.the greenies would be dancing in the streets. regards,roger > Actually, I'd rather put it on a trailer and haul it behind my '86 Golf > diesel. > > Funny thing about trailers, you can unhitch 'em. > > Good fortune on your upgrade! > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:34 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens,pitting > conservationists against soccer moms > > > how about a class action suit against people who want to > further limit the rights of people who want to do as > they please. isn't the government doing enough damage to > our > personal liberties already. i am picking up a 2000lbs. > stainless steel tank tommorrow to process biodiesel, > would you rather strap it on top of your honda or use > my dodge 4x4 pickup. we need real solutions for a real > world. not a flame just an opinion. opinions are like > noses- everyone has one and thinks theirs is best. > kindest regards, roger > > How about a class action lawsuit against all the suv's driving around > > endangering people with more reasonably sized cars, or perhaps a special > > license for cars./ trucks over 5,000lbs, sort of like a cloas a license? > > MOSTLY joking) > > anton > > > > -Original Message- > > From: studio53 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:14 PM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens,pitting > > conservationists against soccer moms > > > > > > Wait a minute! I thought that most accidents were alcohol induced > according > > to National statistics. Let's just outlaw alcohol8>) > > ref http:// > > > > Jesse Parris|studio53| graphics / web design| > > stamford, ct|[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ > > This information , and any attachments may contain confidential > information > > and is intended solely for the > > attention and use of the named addressee(s). > > > ~~~ > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Alan S. Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "biofuel" > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:11 PM > > Subject: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens, pitting > > conservationists against soccer moms > > > > > > > Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > Levin noted that the scientists refused to recommend a specific fuel > > > > economy standard and acknowledged that past increases in fuel economy > > > > led to smaller, lighter cars and thousands of additional traffic > > > > deaths. > > > > > > I challenge him to prove this claim. > > > > > > The only reason the smaller, lighter cars might lead to "thousands of > > > additional traffic deaths" is because they're going to come into > > > conflict with older, heaver vehicles. It's like saying "they have to be > > > built heavy because they've always been built heavy." With an attitude > > > like that we'll never make any progress in fuel economy. Or safety. > > > > > > Building decent _safety equipment_ and -=*GETTING PEOPLE TO USE IT*=- > > > is, IMHO _the_ major factor in vehicle safety. Much more so than the > > > false sense of safety caused by big, heavy SUV's which are _more_ likely > > > to roll over and kill their occupants than "smaller, lighter vehicles". > > > Particularly the ones who don't have their seat belts on. > > > > > > > > > AP > > > -- > > > Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than > > > a career. Aviation is a way of life. > > > A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com > > > Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Jou
RE: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens,pitting conservationists against soccer moms
how about a class action suit against people who want to further limit the rights of people who want to do as they please. isn't the government doing enough damage to our personal liberties already. i am picking up a 2000lbs. stainless steel tank tommorrow to process biodiesel, would you rather strap it on top of your honda or use my dodge 4x4 pickup. we need real solutions for a real world. not a flame just an opinion. opinions are like noses- everyone has one and thinks theirs is best. kindest regards, roger > How about a class action lawsuit against all the suv's driving around > endangering people with more reasonably sized cars, or perhaps a special > license for cars./ trucks over 5,000lbs, sort of like a cloas a license? > MOSTLY joking) > anton > > -Original Message- > From: studio53 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:14 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens,pitting > conservationists against soccer moms > > > Wait a minute! I thought that most accidents were alcohol induced according > to National statistics. Let's just outlaw alcohol8>) > ref http:// > > Jesse Parris|studio53| graphics / web design| > stamford, ct|[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > This information , and any attachments may contain confidential information > and is intended solely for the > attention and use of the named addressee(s). > ~~~ > > - Original Message - > From: "Alan S. Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "biofuel" > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:11 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Debate on fuel economy standards opens, pitting > conservationists against soccer moms > > > > Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > > Levin noted that the scientists refused to recommend a specific fuel > > > economy standard and acknowledged that past increases in fuel economy > > > led to smaller, lighter cars and thousands of additional traffic > > > deaths. > > > > I challenge him to prove this claim. > > > > The only reason the smaller, lighter cars might lead to "thousands of > > additional traffic deaths" is because they're going to come into > > conflict with older, heaver vehicles. It's like saying "they have to be > > built heavy because they've always been built heavy." With an attitude > > like that we'll never make any progress in fuel economy. Or safety. > > > > Building decent _safety equipment_ and -=*GETTING PEOPLE TO USE IT*=- > > is, IMHO _the_ major factor in vehicle safety. Much more so than the > > false sense of safety caused by big, heavy SUV's which are _more_ likely > > to roll over and kill their occupants than "smaller, lighter vehicles". > > Particularly the ones who don't have their seat belts on. > > > > > > AP > > -- > > Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than > > a career. Aviation is a way of life. > > A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com > > Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: self-made vacuum
motie, yeast likes to be at about 77F, at 95 F it dies. much luck with you project. i will continue to watch your work. if i can be of any more help,post or email me at ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). i would suggest you visit www.homedistillers.org the site run but tony ackland. he truly does an excellent job as keith does with this site. kindest regards, roger > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > motie, the yeast cells in your fermenting tank will > > die at 100 f. regards,roger > > Roger, > How much temp can the yeast survive? I plan a trip to pick up a few > items tomorrow to play with. A vacuum gauge will be one of them. I > also hope to find a pressure cooker at a second-hand store. New ones > are outrageously priced for a homegrown experimental use. > Does anyone care to speculate how much vacuum it will take to > implode a 55 gallon barrel? Do I need some interior cross bracing? > I'll use a pressure cooker for a lab sized vessel first. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: self-made vacuum
motie, the yeast cells in your fermenting tank will die at 100 f. regards,roger > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tony & Elle Ackland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Think of a PotStill, with the fermenter being the Pot, and a very > > >long Lyne Arm running to the bottom of a hill. With liquid in the > > >Lyne Arm flowing by gravity, when a valve is opened to draw off > some > > >liquid, a vacuum would be created in the fermenter. Shutting off > the > > >valve at the bottom, would allow the vapor to condense, creating > more > > >vacuum. > > > > But you'd need some way to make sure that the vacuum only acted on > the > > liquid in the fermentor, or else it will just draw vapour out of > the liquid > > in the lyne arm too (hence no net gain). > Depending on the amount of vacuum in the 'system', it should lower > the boiling point of the ethanol. The mass of a 100 gallon fermenter > should preclude it cooling overly much, compared to the vapor in the > Lyne Arm/condenser. A small amount of heat applied to the fermenter > to maintain temp should be relatively simple to do. The condensate in > the Lyne Arm would all run to the lower end. > I have a fairly high hill in the woods behind my house. The snow is > too deep to attempt to get a vehicle up there right now. Maybe later > this spring, I'll have to put a 55 gallon barrel in my trailer up on > the hill, and run a long line down to a vacuum tank. 30 feet of > elevation, and 100 feet of line should create some differential. Does > anyone know how much vacuum a 55 gallon barrel can withstand? Has > anyone come up with a figure for how much vacuum is needed to > vaporize Ethanol at 100F? > > > > Keep on with these ideas - I'm sure you're on to something. > > > > Tony > Thanks, Tony. I need all the input I can get. Anyone else is welcome > to experiment with these thoughts, too. > It's a whole 'nother story, but it's part of the reason I'm doing > the brain storming in a Public Domain. No one can Patent this idea, > and prevent me from using it! 'Nuff said on that topic! > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
motie, a cold trap between the vacuum pump and the ethanol source should solve the problem of pump lubrication. adding an oil trap before the pump would also be advisable.imho. regards,roger > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "cornfed62" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As long as this is still in the theory stage: Remember that > ethanol > > is an excellant cleaning solvent. You will need to pay extra > special > > attention to your 2 cylinder compressor to make sure the essential > > mechanical parts are still being oiled. The ethanol vapor will > tend > > to wash the cylinder walls clean and also contaminate your > compressor > > crankcase oil. A thin oil film is necessary to maintain the seal > > between piston rings and cylinder walls. Once the oil film is > gone, > > the rings will have metal to metal contact with the cylinder walls. > > You may be able able to keep it operation long enough to validate > > your theory. > I hadn't considered that. You are correct. I'll have to give that > some more thought. All others are welcome to contribute, too. Maybe > an in-line oil-mister for Mechanics air wrenches? This is for fuel > purposes, NOT drinking. > > > > > > As long as you are using a propane tank in the system. Have you > > considered using a larger tank. Using the air comnpressor draw a > > vacuum onto the tank and then use it as a stored energy source. A > > typical thousand gallon service propane tank with special plumbing > > and valving will retain a good volume of vacuum and then with > special > > valve controls, you can apply it as needed. > I had a 100 pound (20 gallon?) tank in mind, for a cheap version of > a 'slobber-box'. A prototype will have to be done with readily > availble(and real cheap) materials. > > > Good inputs, > Motie > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vacuum distillation
excellent tony just the info that is needed. do you have any thoughts on whether yeast will survive a low vacuum environment? regards,roger > I have some calculations showing the change in water-ethanol equilibrium as > a result of reduced pressure, at > http://homedistiller.org/designs.htm#vacuum > > If you want to play with the calculations themselves, i have a wee > spreadsheet : http://homedistiller.org/Theory.xls > > cheers > > Tony > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
motie, fermentation temps. should not exceed 25C(77F). i am still trying to look thru my info to find the vacuum required to distill off ethanol at say 68-72F. roger > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > there are turbo yeasts available that will withstand > > 20%+. with sufficent vacuum you can boil water at > > room temp. i would question whether the yeast's ability > > to propagate (and therefore produce ethanol)would > > be affected by a low vacuum.i think that you are > > pursuing an interesting avenue of research. i will try > > to dig up some info on boiling ethanol at different > > vacuums. > > regards, roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > I thoroughly appreciate the effort, Roger. While I am looking to > evaporate the Ethanol at 125F, even better would be if I could do it > at 100F. > I started work on a different integrated systems process several > years ago, and it was up in the air with various people trying to > tell me it couldn't be done. None could tell me WHY it couldn't be > done. I found a solution to every reason anyone could come up with. > The Engineering for a commercial plant is in process now, as > budgetary constraints abound. Financing is VERY scarce for a concept > project. It will be at least 3 years before it is operational. > > I want to do some small scale work on this concept of using vacuum to > somewhat refine the process of fermentation. If someone has insight > into WHY it won't work, I'll attempt to resolve the problem before > spending money on it. The real proof will be when I can drive down > the road burning Ethanol produced this way. The first prototype is > liable to look like something from "Junkyard Wars" on TV. > I haven't made any effort to determine the marketability of this > idea, and have no plans to do so in the future. To the best of my > knowledge, this will NOT be a patentable concept. If it is, I have > just made public the basis, and precluded someone else trying to do > so. Consider this my legal disclaimer to all. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
freezing causes the yeast's cell wall to rupture,killing them and therefore stopping further ethanol production. regards,roger > The relationship of pressure to yeast viability is an unknown to me but if > the liquid column is deep enough that should establish a viability zone and > a piece of filter (plastic or plasticized paper?) could keep all the > yeasties happy below that barrier. As to vapor pressure I think you are > asking what it boils at. > Perhaps you can find that on the web or in the library. > > You will probably use less energy purifying by freezing rather than > vaporizing > The depression in degrees C for ethanol/water is > % ethanol depression degrees C > 5 2.09 > 10 4.47 > 15 7.36 > 2010.92 > 3020.47 > 4029.26 > 5037.67 > 6044.93 > 6849.52 > > I think freezing H2O only uses 1/3 as much energy as evaporating. Better > check that as my memory isn't what it used to be. > > Another way, since it can be slow, is a cold trap in a sealed system. The > alcohol will transport faster than the water. > Vacuum systems where you pressurize the output of the pump in a cold trap > have the product going through a pump and contamination is a given. If not > for human consumption I suppose it doesn't matter but the energy > requirements are higher than just a trap using ambient heat to transport the > product. It doesn't have to boil and the cold trap condenser heat can be put > back in the source vessel if using a refrigeration system. > > If your tank is at 125 F I would think 75F would get condensate at a good > enough rate to keep concentration below yeast toxicity. > Could get 75F probably by running household water through a tank and then to > house. Most water is 55F or so I would think. I assume you use the sun to > heat your tank. Slowest process of all but uses the least energy. > > Just some meandering round Robin Hood's barn but I think there is a seed or > two in there. > > Kirk > > > -Original Message- > From: motie_d [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:34 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think yeast croak or really slow down at 14% or higher.(14% > =28proof) > > > That is also my understanding. The alcohol starts to kill the Yeast > above 10%, and they are nearly all dead by 14%. > On the temp side, 140F kills them off. > That brings me back to the basis of my question. If I heat my > fermentation tanks to (?)125F, so the yeast are still alive, how much > vacuum will I need to apply to the tank, to start removing some of > the Ethanol to keep the level below 10%? > How much vacuum to do the same task at 100F? I would like to keep the > Yeast alive and actively producing, without having to heat the > massive quantities of water to do a traditional distillation. > > I'm trying to look ahead, at the whole process, and solve as many > potential problems as I can see, before I start investing meager > assets to it. I can overcome the heating problem rather economically. > It's disposing of the heat after I've used it, that will be my > shortcoming. I am trying to remove the heat disposal problem, by > simply not putting the heat in to start with. > I welcome any thoughts and commentary on my approach. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://doc
Re: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
there are turbo yeasts available that will withstand 20%+. with sufficent vacuum you can boil water at room temp. i would question whether the yeast's ability to propagate (and therefore produce ethanol)would be affected by a low vacuum.i think that you are pursuing an interesting avenue of research. i will try to dig up some info on boiling ethanol at different vacuums. regards, roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think yeast croak or really slow down at 14% or higher.(14% > =28proof) > > > That is also my understanding. The alcohol starts to kill the Yeast > above 10%, and they are nearly all dead by 14%. > On the temp side, 140F kills them off. > That brings me back to the basis of my question. If I heat my > fermentation tanks to (?)125F, so the yeast are still alive, how much > vacuum will I need to apply to the tank, to start removing some of > the Ethanol to keep the level below 10%? > How much vacuum to do the same task at 100F? I would like to keep the > Yeast alive and actively producing, without having to heat the > massive quantities of water to do a traditional distillation. > > I'm trying to look ahead, at the whole process, and solve as many > potential problems as I can see, before I start investing meager > assets to it. I can overcome the heating problem rather economically. > It's disposing of the heat after I've used it, that will be my > shortcoming. I am trying to remove the heat disposal problem, by > simply not putting the heat in to start with. > I welcome any thoughts and commentary on my approach. > > Motie > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Vacumn distillation
most whiskey makers use copper in the production of drinkable alcohol. i can't see why biofuel requires 316 stainless. stainless is required in pharmacutical and food processing ,but this is usually 304 stainless as it welds better than 316 and is less expensive. regards,roger > Unfortunately copper isn't recommended for biodiesel - preferably all > components would be 316 stainless steel. What I am looking for is an > off-the-shelf item that would serve the purpose for in-line vacuum > distillation for methanol recovery. > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Terry Wilhelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The Revenoor Co., www.revenoor.com, makes all copper > > stills ranging from 5 gallon removable tops to 1,000 > > gallon systems. We have several people pulling 25 > > inches of vacuum on them. Although those models have > > been re-enforced somewhat. > > Hope that helps > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > "movember" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >Any suggestions for an off-the-shelf vacuum > > distillation unit for > > >recovering methanol from a home-built continuous > > processor? > > >If possible, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Preferably, send it here to the list - I'm sure a lot > > of members > > would be interested. > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list > > address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
if you make your solar collector strong enought,you can use vacuum distillation at solar collector temperatures to distill ethanol. regards,roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Okay, so solar stills are available, but do not produce a very high > ethanol concentration with distillation. What about using solar > energy to preheat your solution before it reaches a regular still. > If you could preheat with solar power, less energy would need to be > input it to the final distillation processes. > > Randall > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >I am new to this group so this may have already been answered > before, > > >but I have not been able to find any information on it yet. > > > > > >I keep seeing information about energy use for distillation being a > > >limiting factor using ethanol as an alternative fuel source. Has > > >anyone looked into using some sort of solar collector to provide > the > > >heat (or at least some of the heat) needed for distillation? > > > > > >Randall > > > > Hi Randall > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual15.ht > ml > > Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch15 > > Chapter 15 > > SOLAR STILLS > > > > Also: > > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html > > Is ethanol energy-efficient? > > > > Best > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] political crap
sorry keith. i have already repremanded myself and will refrain from such comments in the future. tail between my legs , roger > >could we please stop airing our politcal and social views > >and get back to talking about the latest techniques in biofuel > >uses and manufacture? a disscussion on continuous processing would > >be a good subject(imho). is anyone doing this? what are our newest > >options on using ethanol instead of methanol? politicos flame if you > >must. > >regards roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > Stop being a list policeman Roger, nobody's forcing you to read > anything and I'm sure you have a delete button. If you want to > discuss continuous processing and ethanol, go ahead. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > List owner > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Imported post
people who are preoccupied with banning things have too much time on their hands . they might try doing something constructive rather than trying to usurp the rights of others. imhp. regards,roger > Pontiac Fiero? That's pretty funny... this has got to be a joke! > ref http:// > > Jesse Parris|studio53| graphics / web design| > stamford, ct|[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > This information , and any attachments may contain confidential information > and is intended solely for the > attention and use of the named addressee(s). > ~~~ > > - Original Message - > From: "motie_d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:50 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Imported post > > > > A MODEST PROPOSAL: BAN ASSAULT VEHICLES > > by J.Kish, Vieth Sports Supply, Mentor Ohio > > Pursuant to recent legislative events and heightened concern for > > public safety, the political climate is ripe for the following > > proposal. > > > > As is well known, traffic accidents are the number one cause of death > > and injury in the United States. Trauma centers are choked with > > victims of reckless driving, overburdening health care facilities and > > the insurance industry. Past laws have been ineffective at curbing > > irresponsible and/or criminal behavior such as speeding and driving > > while under the influence of intoxicants. Therefore, what must be > > controlled is the free and easy access to dangerous and overpowered > > vehicles of foreign and domestic manufacture. > > > > > > Proposal: Ban assault vehicles > > An assault vehicle is a vehicle which by its appearance and > > capabilities inspires the driver to behave as if the nation's > > highways were competitive racetracks. The following are dangerous > > assault vehicles and should be banned from production and > > importation: > > > > > > Lamborgini Countach > > Ferarri Testarossa > > Toyota MR2 > > Chevrolet Corvette > > Mazda Miata > > Mercury Capri > > Pontiac Fiero > > BWM 735i > > Acura Integra > > Nissan 300ZX > > Chevrolet Camero > > Mazda RX7 > > Plymouth Laser > > Dodge Viper > > Dodge Stealth > > Ford Mustang > > Ford Probe > > Honda CRX > > Jaguar XJE > > Also to be banned are any look-alikes of the listed vehicles as well > > as any vehicles possessing one or more of the following > > characteristics: > > > > > > Capable of speeds over 70 mph > > Ground effects > > Dual exhausts > > Performance tires > > Limited to dual seats > > Aerodynamic devices that protrude conspicuously from the rear of the > > vehicle > > Vehicles possessing these features have no legitimate transportation > > purpose. Vehicles which are constructed with the capability of vastly > > exceeding the legal speed limit are produced for unlawful purposes > > and have no place in this society. Owners of these vehicles can have > > no purpose in mind for them other than to commit illegal acts that > > put the general public at risk. > > > > Legislators should be petitioned and media support should be sought > > for this "common sense" measure. If only one fatality is prevented, > > the benefits will far outstrip the cost and inconvenience. Owners of > > such vehicles purchased before the ban is enacted should be required > > to register their vehicle as an "assault vehicle" with their state > > DMV. Failure to do so within a 90-day grace period should result in > > fining, imprisonment, and permanent revocation of driving privileges. > > > > > > DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol reclaimation
have you considered vacuum distillation? best regards, roger > Since I signed on a few weeks ago, I have been researching like > crazy the feasibility of small scale biodiesel from WVO in my > community - rochester new york. > > my question is: how to meet ASTM standards and the biggest > problem I encounter is methanol RECLAIMATION. So, if you have > an answer, please forward. if you are interested in my research so > far, read on. > > a number of companies produce biodiesel to ASTM standards in > the USA. In particular, Ocean Air does a million gallons a month. > They use the basic formula, tickell uses, NaOH, Methanol, WVO > or Virgin (often Soy) oil. But, they reclaim methanol, purify > glycerine to cosmetic grade, reclaim catalyst, purify out Fatty > Acids AND have a patended capacity to produce fuel from > reclaimed fatty acids. Needless to say, they did not explain this to > me. However, if its patended, its available to enterprising research > maniacs. > > Washing Biodiesel removes some fatty acids, all methanol from > the biodiesel ( but not the glycerine unless you wash that too). > Washing alone does not meet ASTM due to the residual fatty > acids. Biodisel.org either in a bow to soy growers or out of real > concern for diesel engines prints for following text at > http://www.biodiesel.org/perils_of_home-brew.htm > > Their concern is free fatty acids, free methanol and engine wear. > Washing alone leave fatty acids adn creates an environmental > problem to anyone who want to make a quantity of product. > > Another issue is density. the Methanol content makes a true > calculation of specific gravity impossible, to really check that, you > need a methanol free product. To REALLY meet ASTM standards, > http://www.biodiesel.org/default2.htm > > one might need to do a gas chromotography analysis to check for > unreacted components, acids etc. > > So, thats it for now...if anyone knows of a small scale production > (over 100 gallons a week, under 1000 a week) and a inexpensive > way to meet ASTM standards, follow up. > > Or, if you have evidence that some of these standards simply a > mechanism to "corner the market" for agribusiness by creating a > false notion WVO biodiesel is unmarketable, post it up. > > thanks . > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
GOD owns the sky and i'm afraid that he's not too happy with our stewardship of it. kind regards roger kurz > Andres, > >It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin > > to obey the laws of > > nature. > > Andydownsouth > > Sadly the very concept of currency allows the > accumulation of "unatural" amounts of wealth. Without > "chits" one would be unable to squirrel away more > wealth than one had a "natural" ability to spend > relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is > also the concept of currency that allow some of the > most "physically" unproductive human beings to > accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from > experience as I have been both. > > I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be > used to facilitate incredable changes...but most > prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand > that power over to those that most often, at least in > my opinion, deserve it the least. > > Dana > > --- Andrs_Stepkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Manolo is right in that the sky does not end at the > > Big River boundary. The > > laws of nature (thermodynamics) tell us that mass > > flows always go in the > > direction of the more to the less. Heat moves from > > the hotter to the colder, > > water flows from the higher to the lower, and > > unfortunately, pollution also > > follows the law, but never stops at that imaginary > > border, and rather > > continues on to ravage my water, my beaches and my > > trees down here, or > > anywhere else. > > It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin > > to obey the laws of > > nature. > > Andydownsouth > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Check Email & Transfer files - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/_WCYWA/3XkDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BD slightly murky at low temps (35 F)
excuse my ignorance but what is Dipetane and whrer can one get it? regards,roger > You can add Dipetane at a ratio of 1:200 and it should help most biofuels. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0
could not find the translation when i clicked your site? regrds, roger > i made the traslation, you can find it here: > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/wvoburner.doc > > to see the biger photos you still need to go to the html spanish version: > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm > > with my english i don't know if you will understand better the spanish > version ;-) > > cheers > Manolo Roln > Valencia, Espaa > > > > -Mensaje original- > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Enviado el: mircoles, 16 de enero de 2002 23:03 > Para: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Asunto: Re: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0 > > > i would much appreciate a english version of this. > i thank you in advance for taking the time to translate > this. > best regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > here is my second try of wvo burner, i have to change some thinks > > like the feed of wvo is a rubber pipe on a place where it gets too > > hot so this rubber melts, better versions will came. > > > > I intend to use this to dry wvo to make biodiesel > > > > i've made a document with photos, schema and explanations, at the > > moment only in spanish, if someone is interested i can traslate it. > > > > large version, big photos (1Mb): > > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm > > > > short version, smaller photos (128k) > > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.doc > > > > please, comments are welcome, please please please. > > > > cheers > > > > Manolo Roln > > Valencia, Spain > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wvo burner v2.0
i would much appreciate a english version of this. i thank you in advance for taking the time to translate this. best regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > here is my second try of wvo burner, i have to change some thinks > like the feed of wvo is a rubber pipe on a place where it gets too > hot so this rubber melts, better versions will came. > > I intend to use this to dry wvo to make biodiesel > > i've made a document with photos, schema and explanations, at the > moment only in spanish, if someone is interested i can traslate it. > > large version, big photos (1Mb): > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.htm > > short version, smaller photos (128k) > http://www.geocities.com/manolorolan/Quemadorwvo.doc > > please, comments are welcome, please please please. > > cheers > > Manolo Roln > Valencia, Spain > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike
as an avid bike rider , i feel that the best way to
power a bike is by burning human fat. no filtering,
no methanol recycling,no settling of glycerin and no
waste water disposal. biofuel should (IMHO) be used
to save our environment while at the same time
maintaining and improving the lifestyle we have come to
enjoy. i have taken many a fall on my mountain bike and
would hate to have the weight of steam engine and steam
at 300F and 150psi. on top of me. but to each his own.
kindest regards , roger kurz
> What about steam radiators? Safety is determined by proper design, I mean.
>
> A tank of gasoline relatively close to one's body, at 60 or more mph, in a
> sheet metal tank is not all that safe either...so I'm not sure that that
> would be insurmountable even though I certainly share your concern.
>
> I thought the whole idea a little silly and unsafe too, at first, but then I
> considered all the logical and intelligent things this fellow had done, and
> his skill, and thought...well...mebbeif it's done right, like anything
> else.
>
>
> Edward Beggs
> www.biofuels.ca
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:40:54 +
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike
> >
> > having a source of high temperature and high pressure
> > steam close to one's body would not be safe. steam
> > engines also pale when compared to diesel efficiency.
> > IMHO.
> > best regards, roger kurz
> >> A local guy genius inventor type made up a steam powered bike a number of
> >> years ago. I wonder how it would run on SVO, or biodiesel in the burner? I
> >> am not sure what he used for fuel.
> >>
> >> Is it possible to marry SVO or biodiesel to a small and efficient steam
> >> engine? Is that more desirable than using a small diesel? (Quieter,
> >> certainly!)
> >>
> >> How would it be as about compared to a human/electric bike? ("ebike") Or
> >> should the ebike be charged by the small diesel genset?
> >> Thoughts, anyone?
> >>
> >> Edward Beggs
> >> www.biofuels.ca
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:33:32 -0600
> >>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of
> >>> travel
> >>>
> I remember reading somewhere that a person on a bicycle on level ground
> with no wind pedaling @15 MPH gets the equivalent of something like
> three thousand "miles per gallon"
> >>>
> >>> Per gallon of what?
> >>> ÷÷
> >>> "It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In
> >>> fact, a bicycle can be up to 5
> >>> times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories
> >>> burned
> >>> in bicycling to the number of
> >>> calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred
> >>> calories can power a cyclist for three
> >>> miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)!"
> >>> (with a .gif image showing)
> >>> "A comparison of the energy cost of various forms of transportation
> >>> shows that the bicycle is most energy-efficient." (kcal/km per person)
> >>> (copied from: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html)
> >>>
> >>> "A bicycle is also the world's most energy efficient mode of travel, using
> >>> just 35 calories per passenger mile
> >>> versus 1860 for an average automobile with one occupant."
> >>> (copied from:
> >>> http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/5_Different_Reasons.htm)
> >>>
> >>> 1 Btu = 252 calories = 0.252 kcal = .293 watts = 0.000295 kWh = .000393
> >>> HPh
> >>> =
> >>> 1.055 kJ
> >>> "Conversion Calculator for Units of ENERGY"
> >>> http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/ccenrgy.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> >> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EM
Re: [biofuel] Steam powered bike
having a source of high temperature and high pressure
steam close to one's body would not be safe. steam
engines also pale when compared to diesel efficiency.
IMHO.
best regards, roger kurz
> A local guy genius inventor type made up a steam powered bike a number of
> years ago. I wonder how it would run on SVO, or biodiesel in the burner? I
> am not sure what he used for fuel.
>
> Is it possible to marry SVO or biodiesel to a small and efficient steam
> engine? Is that more desirable than using a small diesel? (Quieter,
> certainly!)
>
> How would it be as about compared to a human/electric bike? ("ebike") Or
> should the ebike be charged by the small diesel genset?
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Edward Beggs
> www.biofuels.ca
>
>
>
> > From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:33:32 -0600
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of
> > travel
> >
> >> I remember reading somewhere that a person on a bicycle on level ground
> >> with no wind pedaling @15 MPH gets the equivalent of something like
> >> three thousand "miles per gallon"
> >
> > Per gallon of what?
> > ÷÷
> > "It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In
> > fact, a bicycle can be up to 5
> > times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories
> > burned
> > in bicycling to the number of
> > calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred
> > calories can power a cyclist for three
> > miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)!"
> > (with a .gif image showing)
> > "A comparison of the energy cost of various forms of transportation
> > shows that the bicycle is most energy-efficient." (kcal/km per person)
> > (copied from: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html)
> >
> > "A bicycle is also the world's most energy efficient mode of travel, using
> > just 35 calories per passenger mile
> > versus 1860 for an average automobile with one occupant."
> > (copied from:
> > http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/5_Different_Reasons.htm)
> >
> > 1 Btu = 252 calories = 0.252 kcal = .293 watts = 0.000295 kWh = .000393 HPh
> > =
> > 1.055 kJ
> > "Conversion Calculator for Units of ENERGY"
> > http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/ccenrgy.htm
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel
u.s. automakers make large powerful cars because americans love them. its the same reason hollywood makes stupid situation comedy shows-they sell! as soon as the gass crisis was over americans dumped their pintos,vegas ect. and bought suv's and 4wheel drive pickups. i know iworked for Dana corp. in late 1984 -84 we were shipping 700+ caddilac frames per 8 hour shift.IMHO regards,roger kurz > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From what I've seen the trade is between power > > and efficiency. I think car makers could scale > > back power and easily increase fuel efficiency > > but americans are too self absorbed to go for it. > > The bottom line is that americans don't buy > > efficiency, they buy power. > Everyone needs to determine for themselves where to draw the line > between power and economy. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but you seem > to have used the words efficiency and economy interchangably. A more > efficient engine produces more power. I've increased the efficiency > as much as I can, and currently have acceptable power. The only way I > can get more economy is to either reduce power or further increase > efficiency. > > Unless the > > government makes all automakers do it none will. > If the government sticks their fingers into it, they disrupt supply > and demand. If people want more fuel mileage, the manufacturers will > provide it. If consumers want more power, that is what the > manufacturers will build. > > >The problem with gas engines and having alot > > of power is that it dosen't take much power to > > cruise down the highway at 60 or so MPH. The > > engine has to be held back and that wastes the > > energy. Diesels are much better since there is > > no throttle plate to restrict the flow. > I agree that Diesels are more efficient, but there are none currently > available that produce satisfactory horsepower. Perhaps a blend of > 25% Ethanol in the fuel? > My perspective is on US light trucks. I don't own a car. I have no > use for one. > > > > > > As of 2001 - using only existing technologies > > > and without harming > > > > safety or performance - the fuel economy of > > > U.S. cars could be > > > raised > > > > by 17% to 36% and by 27% to 47% for light > > > trucks. > This is the line I was concerned with. > > > > > > > > > > > Is this info being kept secret? I don't own a > > > car, but I would LOVE > > > to be able to increase my light truck fuel > > > economy by 27 to 47% > > > without a decrease in performance or safety. > > And my original reply. > > Motie > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol fuel
copper or stainless steel pot scrubbers work very well. (sans soap of course) expand them alittle bit,don't pack them tightly. section of them spaced a couple of inches apart depending on the height of you column. regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > - Original Message - > From: "flashyrider" < > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 13:38 > Subject: [biofuel] ethanol fuel > > > > > > 3. I built a valved reflux still and I need to know what is the best > > packing to use in the column. Right now, I'm using glass marbles with > > a 1/2 diameter. I have heard of using Raschig rings. Are they more > > efficient? How about steel wool? > > > > Steel wool would rust away real fast, the best way I have read about (a few > years ago), is fill the reflux colunm with copper wool (check the kitchen or > cleaner section of the local Safeway for copper scrub pads). > > Greg H. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No washing, Solid Catalyst, etc
Keith, are there any more details on this process? by the way you do a great job with this group. regards,roger kurz > "The resulting ester, which contained considerable amounts of > potassium soaps, was purified by passing the ester through a column > filled with strongly acid, macroreticular ion exchange resin under > waterfree conditions. This purification step removed most of the > soaps as well as other impurities and led to very pure fatty acid > methyl esters. This procedure is well suitable for small scale > production plants." > > -- From "Production and Fuel Properties of Fatty Acid Methyl Esters > from Used Frying Oil", M. Mittelbach, B. Pokits, A. Silberholz. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel, Static Mixer Tube.
paul, a form of vacuum distillation might recover the methanol for you. regards, roger > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > dear paul, your mixing tube packed witn ball bearings > > and two pump idea sounds great. could you please supply > > some more detail info (sketch,dimensions)? > > regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > Greetings Rodger, > At the moment it is just an idea. I have gone so far as to purchase two > Toyota Landcruiser oil pumps. > $17 Aus each seemed pretty good given the capabilities of these pumps. Hand > cranked drum pumps are selling for many times that.( Hand crank could be > substituted for electric motor in my origional idea). > The oil pumps and static mixer tubes are both ideas suggested by others, I > can only take credit for the idea of using them together. So not much in the > way of further details available at this stage. > > The pumps and mixing tube will be assembled once a processing regime is > established. > At present I am working on using unreacted WVO oil to extract the excess > methanol from the glycerine layer. > Producing a stable, quality BD from the tallow laden WVO available in > Australia requires an excess of methanol and NaOH. 20ml conc aqueous NaOH > soln and 250ml per litre methanol work well but the volume of yield drops to > about 85% of oil volume. SG and viscosity are low, low temp stability and > viscosity good. This is however an expensive way to make BD. Gelling of the > unwashed BD is also a problem, I may be able to reduce NaOH level. Initial > tests show that the methanol can be recovered in this way reducing the cost. > Choice of a two stage or continuous recovery process will govern my choice > of pump speed ratios and reaction vessels etc. > > Regards, > Paul Gobert. > > www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517 > > > Results of this experimentation will determine > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WVO processor design parameters--Questions/input?
dear paul, your mixing tube packed witn ball bearings and two pump idea sounds great. could you please supply some more detail info (sketch,dimensions)? regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > - Original Message - > From: "Dana Linscott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Can anyone tell me what the pH of BD is prior to > > washing and what the lowest temperature at which the > > reaction will take place is? > > Dana pH of BD prior to washing can be 9 or 10 or even higher if an excess of > NaOH is used. > Clean lightly used tallow-free wvo can be processed at 20 deg C, the > reaction just takes a bit longer. > Unfortunately WVO in Aust contains beef tallow leached from the part-cooked > frozen chips used by fish&chip shops. This mixture will not process cold (at > least the tallow portion won't). > The use of excess NaOH mentioned above, in conjunction with 250ml of > Methanol per litre and temp of 55 deg C processes the oil and tallow giving > a uniform BD which shows no sign of tallow/ tallow ester dropout on standing > or freezing. This is usually a big problem with oil containing tallow. > The WVO deacidificaton/filtration unit which you are developing sounds just > the thing for problem WVO. > Would it also be suitable for waste animal fat ( a favourite chip cooker in > Oz fish & chip shops)? > > > Is anyone using a plastic reaction vessel? > > Yes and sometimes. For 1L test batches I use the "Patented Dr.Pepper Method > by Tilly". PET bottles withstand the reaction, heat, initial presurisation > and final depresurisation. Some of the larger batches I have made involved > mixing/settling the reactants in 25L plastic buckets and polythene(?) > drums. Neither has caused problems. > Some plastics are more resiliant than others, the worst seem to be plastic > appliance cases and general consumer plastic items. > > For your BD production add on vessel you may be interested in utilising an > idea myself and others have tried. > Mechanically mixing the NaOH into the methanol is a dangerous and time > consuming process. > A much simpler method is to substitute a concentrated aqueous solution of > NaOH for the solid NaOH. > The small ammount of water in the solution appears to make no difference to > the reaction. Perhaps it is chemicaly bound. Mixing is instantaneous, easy > and safe. The method lends itself to automation if an alkali resintant pump > can be used. Possibly a peristaltic pump would be suitable. More details > supplied if interested. > > One scenario I have considered to get around the EPA/Local Council > lisencing restictions on transporting WVO was to part process the WVO at > pick up. Two engine oil pumps would be coupled to an electric motor, one > running at 1/5 the speed of the other. The faster pump would draw the WVO > from its container, circulate it through a coil of pipe heated by propane. > The slower pump would be for the methoxide (could be corosion and seal > problems here). Both pumps would deliver into one end of a mixing chamber > consisting of a length of pipe packed with ball bearings. The chamber is > unpressurised and discharges by overflow, ie in at the bottom and out at the > top. The mixture is then fed into lidded bins. Now I am no longer > transporting waste but fuel with a much higher flashpoint than the diesel > that used to be carried in the fuel tank of the vehicle. > Settling, decanting, washing and filtering is all that remains to be done. > Regards, Paul Gobert. > > www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517 > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] simple SVO burner design...might work for Glycerin
dana, i would appreciate a copy of your plans. regards, roger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Why don't you just put all these up on the > > biofuels files > > >section on yahoo? > > > > > >-- > > >Harmon Seaver > > >CyberShamanix > > >http://www.cybershamanix.com > > Excellent idea Harmon! > > > > Yes, that's the place for it. The files section > > isn't open for > > members' uploads, but I'll do it, if someone asks me > > nicely. :-) > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > List owner > > Yes Keith, > Please do that and post directions how folks can > access them there. > > I have been overwhelmed with requests for the designs > as well as suggestions how they might be improved. > > I am sending them to you along with text in two > separate emails. > > Thank you, > Dana > --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Dana Linscott wrote: > > > > > > > > Since I have gotten my scanner running I also > > have a > > > > rough design of the SVO/waste glycerin burner > > assembly > > > > that I mentioned a month or so ago. I had > > requests for > > > > it then but have lost the addresses to send it > > to. > > > > > > > > Please contact me directly if you want a copy. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Unlimited PC-PC calling at Crystal Voice! - Only $1/Mo. Download your free 30 day trial. Click here. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gb1xVB/GxbDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
